other. i would please ask you to wait until it is until the other is finished. [ applause ] >> donald trump must give the american public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to be president. and is breaking his promise. >> elaine, he can roll out the numbers on the sunny side, people in scranton no different, people in ft. wayne, indiana, no different. the answer is no taxing -- >> thank you. and vladimir putin -- >> i must have hit a nerve here. >> why the disconnect? >> there's an all proverb that says the russian bear never dies he just hibernates. the truth of the matter is the weak foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama has awakened aggression in russia. >> 100,000 of them children -- >> he's called women, slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. he went after john mccain, a

p.o.w. and said he wasn't a hero because he had been captured. >> there they go again. >> i have said to governor pence i can't imagine how you can defend your running mates position on one issue after the next. and yet, he is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend. >> i'm just trying to keep up with the insult-driven campaign on the other side of the table. >> i'm just saying facts about your running mate. >> oh, yeah, kaine did. >> cnn's instant poll right after the debate gives the etch to mike pence. 48% of debate watchers say pence won the debate compared to 42% for tim kaine. about 67 said pence exceeded expectations. 29% did say it more likely to back trump. only 18% for clinton.

our poll excuse more democratic than average americans. >> it's a question because pence won. the polls are perfect. so style is always at a premium in a debate. but substance is often what comes back to haunt it. let's go to cnn's executive editor mark presleying, manu raju and editor-in-chief of the daily beast jackie kessenich. if you had to pick a moment of the night, and it's not easy, because these two were more professional, if you had to pick something, what do you think the headline was? >> i think what mike pence had to do in this debate is stop the bleeding and that's exactly what he did. that's exactly where we were heading into the debate. donald trump's numbers were sliding. he had a really terrible week. mike pence had to articulate a

vision for this ticket something that donald trump has not been able to do or in the first debate. and really take the fight to hillary clinton. that's exactly what he did. he did not engage in those fights, tit for tat, over donald's comments about mexican immigrants, judge krill and the miss universe fight. he's going to continue to get hit for not defending donald trump's rhetoric. that was his decision going in, do not engage in a tit for tat. reset it for washington, and at the same time, he went after hillary clinton in a way i believe republicans will be happy about going forward for sunday's debate. >> jackie, what jumped out to you? >> i was talking to a pence aide last night, one of the things they told me the preparation that pence went through. he had several mock debates.

not only did governor scott walker, of course, his sparring partner, he played tim kaine but they had the moderator going after pence. a two on one situation. it was described to me as pretty brutal. he was really put to it going into the debate. not that tim kaine wasn't prepared. but it sounded like opposite donald trump. mike pence was ready to go for this debate. but in terms of what mike pence did last night, yeah, i think he really helped donald trump. i don't know that tim kaine was the needle much. but it seemed like mike pence was going out there and sounding steady and sane. if you take about substance over style. his style is very smooth. he was not rattled. there was only a couple times when it came to taxes. when it came to something else that is escaping me right now. >> too early. >> it's too early, actually. >> the e-mails. the e-mails, jackie? >> no. >> he went back and forth about

the taxing and about the e-mails where he was really starting to get into it when they moved topics. >> well right, i think that was one of the other problems last night. they weren't sort of allowed to play out some of these arguments. we won't ever know what happened. >> although it was better than the last format. it was very interesting. they got to sit next to each other. you got your time. but then they were able to kind of go at it. and that was really fruitful on a couple situations that deserved layers. there was one incident last night, mark preston, that showed why pence didn't want to get into a tit for tat about what trump drmp has said. let's play it. >> he says ours is an insult-driven campaign? did you all just hear that? ours is an insult-driven campaign. to be honest with you, donald trump had said all of the things he said he said in the way he you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that hillary clinton leveled when she said that half

of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. >> mark, that was for me the only give me a break moment of the night for mike pence where he said something i thought he should have not wanted to say. what was your take? >> yeah, i agree with you. mike pence was between a rock and a hard place last night because he had to defend the indefensible for donald trump for all the ridiculous crass statements he has made throughout the campaign. at the same time, mike pence had to keep his own laurels and own political future in mind. i think we saw that last night. he tried to walk a very fine line in order to do so. let me just go a different direction. when we're talk about winners and losers of the debate. first of all, i think we can all acknowledge it's a very important debate. they both did what they had to do, but what tim kaine did it last night while he did it articulately and too forceful upon it.

he did amplify the message time and again, time and again, of what donald trump has said. he amplified that message up upwards of 50 million people. you connect that to television ads that the clinton campaign is going to run specifically in key states that they need to, in the states they need to win the presidency, i think that's powerful. tim kaine had he taken a breath, put the cup of coffee down before he had gone out there. he would have done a million times better. but mike pence certainly did himself well if he decides to run in 2020. >> let's take a look at the possibly overcaffeinated moments. and elaine quijano, the moderator, had a challenge on her hands of trying to keep particularly tim kaine from peeking over mike pence. watch this. >> let me talk about -- >> senator, i think that's still on my time. >> well, isn't this a discussion? >> yeah. >> well, let's talk about this. >> governor, give him an opportunity - give an opportunity to finish my

sentence. she had a private server. >> i get to weigh in. >> senator. >> he wouldn't support troops, this is important, elaine. these were donald -- >> hold on a second. >> it's my time, senator. >> he says -- that's your two minutes. >> i forgive you. >> i don't know what they just said there. but is that the format's fault or was it tim kaine being overly aggressive? >> tim kaine was being overly aggressive. this was more of an open discussion. they were sitting at a table, able to go back and forth. i think this is why voters viewed that pence won. pence won narrowly. not necessarily because of the arguments. because of the style. viewers do not want that. they want each tisides to make their point. i think agree with mark preston if tim kaine let mike pence make

his points he attacks after that. he probably wins his debate. this is what hillary clinton did. he did not interrupt tim kaine. >> one, the split screen is what cnn does. most with the debate didn't have it that way. pence looked at the camera most of the night which was a really smart thing to do especially in the split screen. it was a little weirder in the open format because he wasn't looking at tim kaine. one of the thing that pence missed last night, jackie, coming off so much not donald trump in terms of what he said and what he was. that had to be a balancing point. at one point, i thought he was going to say, look, i would never say anything like that. but the guy is not a politician. that's a lot of what you had to watch last night. >> that whole he's not a

politician actually got pence in the middle of the debate. trying to say something about what donald trump said about -- oh, comments about women and abortion if roe versus wade is appealed that women should be punished. and kaine said oh, you're whipping up the mexican thing again. and back for a positive thing about mike pence that he did last night, he had a little bit of a chris christie moment. where tim kaine is using a line he's used on the campaign trail a hundred times about we're going to have you're fired economy or you're hired economy. and mike pence said that's a good line, you guys have used that on the campaign trail, haven't you? you kind of saw the rubio vindication and the wind out of tim kaine's sails a little bit. >> and one line from the bible.

and tim kaine did that. >> great lines from the gospel. from the form of the heart the mouth speaks when donald trump says women should be punished that mexicans are rapists and criminals and that john mccain is not a hero, he is showing who he is. >> senator, you've whipped out that mexican thing again. >> they combined with the mexican thing and the bible, mark. how was that moment? >> it was a moment and many moments like that. look, it just shows you he had gotten understand mike pence's skin. he knew he was going into basically a rock fight without any rocks. it was the one that was going to have them hurled at him and he did his best to duck them. so when we're talking about style and substance, tim kaine came in with too much substance. and mike pence almost came in with too much style. style is going to win over

substance. one thing that is not going to be discussed in the debate. i thought it was fascinating. in his opening statement, mike pence clearly was trying to reach out to the college -- noncollege educated white voters. he mentioned the coal industry in his opening statement which, you know, it was -- yes, it was a dog whistle, you know, to those voters. and at the same time, he also mentioned scranton, pennsylvania. a state that donald trump has to win. so, there were these little moments that if you were connected to him, it meant something to you. >> okay. guys, stick around, we do have some fact-checking we want to do. we want to tell you that mike pence may have won the vice presidential debate according to polls but did he actually help donald trump. how did pence do in defending trump's statements? we'll discuss all of that next as well. all the networks are great now. we're talking within a 1% difference

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the gop vice presidential nominee mike pence did not take of the bait at last night's vp debate. when his opponent tim kaine tried to use trump's words against him. pence repeatedly denied that but some of some of the exchanges and then what trump actually said. let's start. >> let's start with not praising vladimir putin as a great leader. donald trump and mike pence has said he's a great leader. >> and donald trump certainly in that system he's been a leader, far more than our president has been a leader. >> we don't think that women should be punished as donald trump said they should for making a decision to have an abortion. >> donald trump trump and i would never support legislation to punish women who made the heartbreaking decision to terminate pregnancy. >> do you believe in abortion, yes or no? >> the answer is there has to be

some form of punishment. >> they want to go house to house, school to school and business to business and kick out 60 million people. >> i can't believe -- >> he's shaking his said say i got to defend this question because trump actually said man, he's saying no, he didn't. >> donald trump has been on the opposite side of all these issues. like the deportation. this summer he spent several weeks trying to clean up his position with the 11 million people who are here illegally who are not violent criminals. and last night, pence didn't even touch that, he actually sidestepped it all. we'll figure it out when we get to it. and also punishing women for having abortions right after trump made that statement, he

put out two statements clarifying his position leaving everybody confused. in a lot of ways, mike pence couldn't do a whole lot other than side step it or try to deny it broadly. >> and yet the flood of trump says, jackie, actually helped pence out in two cases. one, he got a pass on lgbtq last night which is going to be a significant weakness with mike pence in a big chunk in that sector. the other was on syria and syrian refugees. what was your take on the points made and how they were handled with mike pence because he's got a bad case in the court after syrian refugees. >> this is a big issue for mike pence and he did sort of talk around it. as you said with some of the things that trump said, he did the best he could. and this is a good appear for

mike pence. it was one area where he was pressed to a point where he didn't really have a good answer. and you saw the same thing with immigration in general saying we're not going to do that. in actuality, particularly with donald trump's comments about mexicans. he said we're talking about illegal immigrants, well, that's not what trudonald trump was sag he really was in a tough spot. but that's what a running mate is all about. he did the best he could. >> and tim kaine was also fact-checked. and watch this when he was talking about what donald trump said about mexicans. >> we have different views on refugee issues and immigration. hillary and i want to do enforcement based on are people dangerous. this guy is saying all mexicans are bad. >> i love the mexican people. i've had a great relationship with the mexican people. >> so, mark, he never said all

mexicans are bad? >> no, and he does love the mexican people, clearly, he just told us that. what's interesting about donald trump the staple that tim kaine is refusing to is also referring to when he's talking about rapists and sending us bad people. i guess some of them are probably good. >> you could argue that's an overly generous fact-check for donald trump. he said i love all mexicans but he said a lot of things. >> he was talking about illegal immigration. and that's when he said they're sending their rapists. and criminals are coming over in his inarticulate way, but never said mexicans are bad. >> what you heard, mike pence was reaching out to certain voters in pennsylvania and certainly in the midwest. what you saw was tim kaine reaching out to the base. what we saw in the last cnn/orc

poll, hillary clinton did such a good job in her debate the last time that she was able to close the enthusiasm gap among voters. meaning democrats were more enthusiastic to vote for her than before the debate. tim kaine was trying to do the same thing, emphasize the latino community to come out and vote because it's critical for her to win, in a state like colorado, nevada and florida, some cases certain pockets of north carolina. >> kaine's weakness last night was when pence kept asking him about defending the state of security. he just kept saying well, we got nuclear weapons away from iran. and pence would immediately say, no, you didn't. there's a time line on that. and he kept saying well, we killed bnkill killed osama bin laden. that was his stroweak point.

his strong point. >> house to house, school to school, business to school and kick out 16 million people and i cannot -- >> that's not true. >> the legillegal immigrants, t came over illegally, some wonderful people, but they've got to go out. >> how do you do it in a practical way? >> you know what at some way, we'll try to get them back, the good ones. >> so he has deportation forcing at times. >> absolutely. this is the issue that propelled him from the republican nomination that set him apart from his rivals in that nomination. he took a hard line to the right of ted cruz on this issue. now, he has to worry about winning nevada where the hispanic vote is critical. places like florida, a main battleground state where the issue plays well, more moderate policy plays well.

that is why democrats are hammering home on this issue. and that's why mike pence had a difficult time explaining his position. he's also done the same thing conceptually with syrian refugees jackie kessenich. they just had a court case come down that reviewed pence's plan for indiana to keep refugees out of indiana. basically on the premise that syrian refugees were going to be dangerous. and the correspond was provocative saying there's no proof saying that these people are dangerous. it's like mike pence wants to keep black people out of indiana, he's afraid they might be dangerous. and then last night, well, there's just no proof yet. i think that's a point we'll hear again. >> yes. particularly because it isn't correct, it could take 18 to 24

months to get into this country for refugees. it's scare mon gerrigering as wd from donald trump as well. particularly in the country, only other state i would add to the states listed would be colorado where there are quite a few hispanic voters that they need to vote for them. so, we're covering politics but we're keeping an eye on hurricane matthew. just bashed haiti. cuba. it's sitting outside seem like the track is going to lead it to florida and the southeast. it is say monster storm. we're going to telling you what you need to know next. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing.

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hurricane matthew is packing winds of more than 125 miles per hour and expected to intensify. the deadly storm slammed haiti and cuba, hitting parts of those countries as you can see on the screen under water. the hurricane is now bearing down on the bahamas. it setting its sights on florida and the southeast. cnn meteorologist chad myers joins us with the latest forecast track. what are you seeing, chad? >> the latest now south florida understand a hurricane warning from sebastian inlet down to ft. lauderdale. not including miami but really close. it does include lake okeechobee. hurricane conditions means it will be felt within 48 hours. cuba took the stuffing out of

the storm. cuba got bashed. mountains around cuba bashed the storm as well. it's not 145 miles per hour like it was yesterday. here's what has changed. the models overnight have tended to get very close to florida and then turn hard out to the right. not ending up across the northeast. maybe making a loop out here in the atlantic. but look at this closest approach by friday morning. thursday, tomorrow night, this is a category 4, 130-mile-per-hour storm very close to the coast of florida. what could be worst case scenario, was this just follows the coast as category 4. half on and half off the coast. not just one 90-mile or 30-mile hurricane damage path. this could be a 100 mile hurricane damage path as it scours the southeastern coast. also the carolina coast and the north carolina as well. it's a big storm, i know it doesn't look as impressive on satellite this morning but it

will gain intensity very warm water in the bahamas. the water is almost always warm. >> it sounds impressive, 130 miles per hour to hit south carolina. sha sounds scary. your models don't show it hitting the northeast. it's going to spin off to sea after south carolina. >> there's only one model that takes it out to newfoundland. that's the canada model. bay of fundy, you may have to watch out for that. models slam it into the coast of florida, turn it away and actually turn it hard to the right into the atlantic. that some good news there. at least for the east, new york, philadelphia, pennsylvania, and new jersey. >> it's already bad news for people in haiti. maybe in cuba. as you've been saying, florida not exactly looking to be a sponge right now either. they've had plenty of precipitation. chad, thank you very much. >> there was one thought if it was really bad on sunday night the presidential debate might have to be cancelled if people

were battling 120-mile-per-hour winds. >> there are all these things. you've got to see what happens when it actually makes land. so it may have been the most personal policy arguments during last night's vp debate. in fact, it was the most thoughtful discussion we have seen in this election to date. you have to hear the discussion these two men had about their positions on abortion. what it meant to their faith. what means to policy, and why they do what they diedo. you'll hear it, next.

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now, if you are thoughtful about your politics, there was a real treat for you in last night's debate. these two gentlemen were talking not just about their faith in nominal fashion, but how it specifically applies to their positions on reproductive rights. senator tim kaine and governor mike pence went deeper on why they feel the way they do with the law on abortion, than we've certainly heard in this election and maybe for many years. cnn actually had a group of undecided virginia voters watching the debate and doing kind of a dial test. so you'll see on your screen, a line that goes up when people feel that something is resonating with them. men and women separated. hoarse a listen. you'll see what happens. >> i think it's really, really

important that those of hughes have deep faith lives don't feel like we can just substitute our own views for everybody else in society, regarding of their views. >> my faith informs my life. i try and spend a little time on my knees every day but it all for me begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth, the value of every human life. >> you really saw well-explained the fundamental difference between two schools of political thought on this issue. let's discuss. we have cnn political commentator and talk radio host john phillips. a donald trump supporter. and cnn political commentator in hillary clinton supporter hilary rosen. this is not an issue that is playing at the top of the list, as it has as we were talking before the segment in cycles past. but what did you think came out of it last night? >> well it's such a departure than what we've seen at the top of the ticket where we have donald trump who comes from manhattan, the world of real the city and casinos in new york

city. the clintons who have more baggage. the two live at the intersection of sodom and gomorrah. we've seen these two who are figures talk about abortion, the death penalty in terms of reality, in terms of religion. i think it was certainly a left turn, from what we've seen so far in the campaign. >> hillary, what did you think? >> i thought it was well done. i agree with chris about the intensity of it. but what was interesting was that you had tim kaine who does have personal views on this, but made it very clear that he and hillary clinton are leaving the issue. reproductive choice up to a woman, her family and her doctor. that is where the majority of americans are on this issue. and it is important that people hear that, i think, as something that matters particularly to independent voters. and the other interesting thought -- thing was, you know, you have mike pence who has one

of the most conservative records in the country on this issue where he bans planned parenthood, you know, from indiana, which, of course, hurts poor women. and then seems to absolutely deny that donald trump ever talked about punishment for women who seek abortions. and so, it was sort of wishful thinking i think on mike pence's part. whereas, i thought tim kaine did a good job describ3 how important public policy comes into this issue. >> we have moment we want to play four where tim kaine asks mike pence why don't you trust women to make their own decisions on this. let's listen. >> why don't you trust women, why doesn't donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? that's what we ought to be doing in public life. living our life of faith and motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing each other, dialoguing with each other about important role issues of the day. >> because -- >> fundamental issues of

morality. let women make their own decisions. >> because society can be judged with how it deals with its most vulnerable. the aged, the infirm, the disabled and the unborn. i believe with it all my heart i can't be prouder than to stand with a pro-life candidate in donald trump. >> you heard it two different philosophies. >> while he maintained his credentials it was still not the fire and brimstone that we've seen in the past. not what we've seen from the mike huckabees and rick santorums in the campaign. something very fundamental happened that we haven't seen happen in a long time on the republican side of the aisle. effectively, a candidate won where you see them run on right end be stuck with those positions in the general election. that didn't happen. they were candidates far more conservative to donald trump. they lost the primary.

while they maintained the credentials, it was multed. not fire and brimstone. >> you saw maybe the biggest distinction of the night between the tickets. kaine and clinton are pretty much lockstep, when it comes to issues on the other side, you saw pence showing, one, what donald trump is not known for, deep thought. this is something that he has thought and manifested all of his life. donald trump's abortion position just to point at that right now is new found at best. moved back and forth. he is not where pence is with planned parenthood. so there's an incongruity there. >> well, we don't know. >> donald trump has said he doesn't think planned parenthood is a big deal. obviously, mike pence does think it's a big deal because he tried to outlaw it in his own state. >> first of all, trump has been all over the map on planned parenthood. he actually said that he doesn't think planned parenthood should be able to offer reproductive

services to women. i think you're right, chris, on this point is that mike pence has a strong conservative record but a very conservative record on social issues. and i think the more republicans promote their conservative policy effort, in essence, it hurts the trump ticket. particularly in suburban areas where there are a lot of swing voters. i think this is a debate that's been missing from this presidential contest thus far. i do believe we if we got to substance on things like climate and things like reproductive choice and women's health care, we would find a stronger hillary clinton/tim kaine ticket. because that's where i think the majority of the country is. >> hilary, i want to stick with you, i want to know from your side if tim kaine missed an opportunity to go after mike pence about the lgbt laws that

he tried to pass in indiana that many democrats feel were discriminatory? >> i thought he did a good job going after donald trump. you know, as we saw last night, look, mike pence is a skilled debater. and aggressive in his own defense. i do -- i don't think that donald trump and mike pence are going to get much of the lgbt vote. i think that there are -- so, i don't think he was losing much. but i do think, again, emphasizing their really kind of traditional hard-core very conservative credentials does matter. and i think going forward, as mike pence now has a higher profile, he's going to have to answer for that. >> that's why people knew who governor mike pence was. he tried to pass laws unsuccessfully that were discriminatory. not just democrats thought they were. but it didn't come up last night. appreciate it. what do you think about this issue? tweet us @newday.

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playoffs, hines ward making his "bleacher report," "new day" big moment right now with us. here it is i'm a big fan, hines, what do you got for justice. >> this time of year in canada, fans are usually gearing up for the hockey season, but they also love their blue jays, and they came to play. crazy moment in the seventh inning, orioles outfielder huan soo kim was ready for a catch when a fan throws a beer can. the fan was not ejected from the game. he took off before the security came. they cannot find him but the play of the game came in the bottom of the 11th inning. game tied. and edwin encarnacion, three-run walk-off to win the game. blue jays win 5-2. they advance to play the texas rangers. tonight, the giants and mets will face off. and winner advances to play the chicago cubs. after one of his worst

performances of his career monday night, odell beckham says he's not having fun playing football anymore, which is crazy. and get this, the refs are out to get him. check it out. >> i just got to know that it's not what gets me. it's go to be that way. i have to assume that i'm always in the wrong, no matter what. and that's just -- it's something that's a tough pill to swallow. but have to understand it, you have to be able to cope with it and let's keep it moving. >> now, i can understand his frustration with things when aren't going well. but he needs to be held accountable. you can't blame others. you can't make excuses. my advice to odell beckham, just play ball. you're too talented to go out there and give excuses. back to you, guys. >> what do you think, hines, such a great receiver with the pittsburgh steelers. everybody always knows you wanted to play with the jets. do you think what you're hearing say young man talking. he's still relatively new to the

pro game? >> yes, he's just young. he has to understand that football is not always about odell beckham. it's about the new york giants. >> hines, back to "new day." >> thank you. the vp candidates clashed on the economy, national security, taxes, immigration. basically everything. which number two finished number one. we'll analyze that, next on "new day." : go get it, marcus. go get it. ...coach gilman used his cash rewards credit card from bank of america to earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. at places like the batting cages. ♪ [ crowd cheers ] 2% back at grocery stores and now at wholesale clubs. and 3% back on gas. which helped him give his players something extra. the cash rewards credit card from bank of america. more cash back for the things you buy most.

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the campaign of hillary clinton and tim kaine has been an avalanche of insults. >> donald trump said women should be punished. mexicans are rapists. >> you better hope trump wins. >> governor pence said inarguably putin is a better leader. >> he doesn't know how wrong he is. >> because hillary clinton and barack obama failed, we are back

at war. >> i'd love to have governor pence tell me what's so comical about war? >> did you work on that a long time? >> he is asking everybody to vote for somebody he cannot defend. >> announcer: this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camero camerota. >> good morning, it's wednesday, october 5th, 6:00 in the east. did you watch the debate? tim kaine and mike sparring over issues and insults. kaine repeatedly raising some of trump's most inflammatory statements with pence failing to defend his running mate. >> pence was strong on turning attacks back on to hillary clinton, questioning her record. the missing e-mails. trustworthiness. so much at stake. just four days until the next presidential debate. 34 days until election day. we have all of the news covered. let's begin with cnn's phil mattingly live in virginia. phil. >> reporter: good morning,

chris, there's some sense coming into this debate it would become a calm state affair between two federal politicians, dull versus duller some call it. it took 20 minutes before those tuned as most desperately trying to land blows in favor of their running >> governor pence can defend the donald trump. >> becoming a night of whose candidate is more insulting. >> you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. >> reporter: using donald trump's own words. >> he's called women's slobs, pigs, disgusting. he went after john mccain apow and said he wasn't a hero. >> reporter: words pence in many cases didn't directly defend. >>he