the bush califah. the money proposed for the new city could go a long way toward actually solving the problems of cairo. thank you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hey, good morning, i'm brian stalter and it's time for "reliable sources." how the media really works, how the news really gets made. we have a lot to analyze this morning. donald trump is making up a massive media conspiracy, falsely claiming that we are rigging the election. he even wants "saturday night live" canceled. i'll have a response coming up. plus, clint greenwald is live in new york is to discuss the trump's campaign of stolen e-mails. billy bush is one half of the fallout from that vulgar "access hollywood" tape.

imagine for me a row of domino dominoes. so many dominoes have fallen since that tape was leaked nine days ago. many more women come forward accusing trump of unwanted sexual advances. with that in mind, take a journey back in time for a moment. these tabloid sex scandals help fuel the media rise of donald trump as a playboy, a rising tv persona decades ago. but could these same stories derail his chances of winning the white house? is the trump of today the same trump of the '90s? what can a trump past tell us about a trump presidency? we have a panel to answer those questions. three men are trump experts and buy biographers. brad thomas, author of "the trump factor, unlocking the secrets behind the trump empire." great to see you all. brad, let me start with you.

you were with the trump campaign on friday. you've been paying close attention to how trump is engaging here. are you surprised by his recent behavior saying that hillary clinton should take a drug test, saying there is a massive media conspiracy against him. based on what you know about him, are you surprised by this? >> no, i'm not, brian. i was at the rally in charlotte on friday. i've attended quite a few rallies over the last year or so, and i'm seeing these voters really start to gain more energy. donald trump has really energized this campaign sorks whsorks, so what you're seeing in terms of the media has energized his brand. >> the media shows that trump is actually waning. are you saying the results from the campaign trail apply to the whole country? >> i haven't looked at the polls in detail. the market is ultimately going

to decide what happens. we are three weeks away from this election, and i think the two most important things are the fundamentals today driving this campaign, which are security and financial security. i think that's what the voters really want to hear from in the next three weeks. >> you're saying he should stop talking about the accusers, stop attacking these women? >> i think the voters want to hear what -- what he's running on. same for hillary. and i think that those are the two most important things that really voters want to hear about right now. it's the fundamentals of this country focusing on the financial security of this country and focusing on security of this country. those are the two most important things. we are three weeks away from this election. three weeks. >> with that in mind, tim, let me ask you. do you think the press has overplayed these accuser stories? there has been wall-to-wall coverage on trump accusers in the last week. >> we know this got started because of the tape that got

leaked. >> and the debate with anderson cooper. >> he said i've always been about words, bill clinton has been about actions. he threw the gauntlet down who said, has anybody been assaulted by me? lo and behold, the floodgates opened. i don't think you can have too much coverage about this. women feeling free to come forward about men sexually abusing them is not a long tradition in this country. i think for a lot of women, the issue comes up, wow, it was 30 years ago. why are they talking about it now? as we saw in the bill clinton case, i think some need their daughters to speak about abuse. >> there is abuse in the catholic church. do you see parallels? >> absolutely. this is wathe way things work, d i'm almost shocked no one in the trump campaign seems to

understand what's happening in this area since the 1990s. whenever ana bu abused person finally gets the courage to come forward, others with experience come forward also. none of these predatory figures have just one victim. i think what's interesting, too, and it's consistent, is that they always have the same age victim, the same rough profile of appearance and they also conduct the same behavior. >> trump's denials this week, a number of statements from the campaign, a number of statements from the rallies. is this consistent with his behavior over the decades? >> his rule is to never admit anything. deny everything and then fling an accusation back at the other person. you can often hear what he's worried about by seeing what he criticizes people for. if he says, let's do a drug test because i think hillary lost energy at the last debate, it's because at the first debate, donald ran out of gas and everybody was saying, why did he

lose energy? so we should expect he's going to accuse hillary of almost anything because he feels under attack, and he's not going to come clean and say anything honest about these charges. >> let me ask brad. brad, where do you think trump's conspiratorial mindset comes from? >> you know, i would really say that, brian. look, this is a businessman. i have visited every property in the world that donald trump owns. i've met with all of his employees. i started writing my book over three years ago. so, you know, i've got a pretty good knowledge and probably the best knowledge of donald trump's businesses than anybody on the planet, including donald trump. when you say conspiracy, i don't understand what that means. >> let me tell you what it means. if trump is a billionaire businessman, then he knows there is not a massive corporate conspiracy against him. he knows that's not possible because he's an elitist, an insider, he knows how it really

works. that's what i mean by a conspiratorial mind. what he said on thursday, talking about the banks and corporations and globalists, it came awfully close to anti-semitic language. i'm just asking you, based on your experience with him, where does that come from? >> i really don't. this is a guy who has created his brand and his followers because of his bold demeanor. and he comes across as a very tough, strong individual. and that's how he's been able to really grow his brand over the years to become this success is ful businessman. again, brian, i wrote a book about donald trump's businesses. i didn't write a book about donald trump's politics. i covered all the businesses in very granular detail. i certainly can speak more about -- >> that's why i'm surprised he's claiming these conspiracies that don't exist.

tim, let me ask you about this week. ayn kr an incredibly strange week. he threatened to sue the "new york times" because they published information from these women. i don't think there's been a lawsuit filed. i don't think there will be a lawsuit filed, but he did sue you? what is the action he takes when he does sue a journalist? >> i think donald trump saying this is a conspiracy, the elections are rigged, you have an individual losing badly in the polls. it looks like he's going to lose badly in the general election, so he has no problem saying, it's rigged, i will blow the whole thing up for self-preservation reasons. he's finding conspiracies everywhere, because if there is a conspiracy, it doesn't mean it was his fault if he lost. >> it's a selfish thing to do, isn't it? >> biit's beyond that. you have people using the media

for his own needs. he sued me for libel in 2006. he lost that case. he sat through a discovery that was a discovery process. more importantly, he's making these threats to sue, i think, to try to chill the media. i think the media was slow to report aggressively on the trump phenomenon, but once it got its footing, the media has been a very important force in this election in terms of outing some of the things the public didn't know about donald trump and should know. he's now using threats of lawsuits to chill the media. >> brian, do you agree that was the intent of his claims? >> oh, sure. intensity is the name of the game with him. one of the things that's important to note, and say donald grew things on his.

i'm also quite privy to good data on brand equity. i'm hearing in the last two weeks his brand equity is plumbing. he's also perceived as boring, not by the elites but by the middle class. actually, when you poll republican households without a public allocation. zoo >> if the three of you could stick around. whether the campaign is leading to a crackup of conservative media. you have to hear what we say about that right after the break. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar

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but does that stop her? check out of it! not one bit. and much like coach hindsight over here, courtyard is all about the game. eight men in the box! is that a good thing? not if we run the ball it's not! welcome back. donald trump taking his media bashing to an extreme this weekend. he's replacing his birther conspiracy theory with another, even grander, conspiracy. yes, he is claiming that global elites, banks, and of course the media, are all conspiring against him. >> the election is being rigged by corrupt media pushing completely false allegations and outright lies in an effort to elect her president. >> corrupt media. in trump's world, journalists are really just clinton campaign workers in disguise

collaborating with her in an attempt to rig the election. this is not just false, it's ludicrous and it's damaging. but you know what, his current conspiracy theory is ripped from these pages, the website of brei breitbart news. it's right there, the mainstream media are kohl lecolluding to e hillary clinton. what are the consequences of this conspiratorial talk? joining me now, senior editor at "the atlantic" and margaret with the "washington post." margaret, what do we even say? how do we prove that we are not all conspiring? >> brian, i'm not sure how you prove it. it's an absurd claim. i've spent decades in the newspaper business.

i've worked at the "new york times" and the "washington post." nobody is sitting in a room with each other and planning to, you know, do anything evil to a candidate. it's just not the case. and i also think that this idea that there's something called the media, my colleague at the "washington post," paul farry, wrote a piece about how there is really no such thing. there are media outlets, there are newspapers, there are cable tv stations, there are network news, but there is no little group called the media that gets together and decides to do terrible things to donald trump. how do you prove that? it's a reality check. >> we're all media makers. now that we're all snapchatting and facebooking, we are all media. we are competitive. we're market driven. i compete with you, margaret. i want to beat you to stories. that's the kind of thing that trump would call collusion in the media. david, is this the moment where

we're trying to cover up something crazy and treat it like it's sane? >> he's in the situation -- remember that scene in the austin powers movie where austin powers assuresie l elizabeth hu, that's not my bag, baby? you've got the videotape. if his claim is people are inventing these terrible stories about me, the stories are all verified and agreed and approved and endorsed and prove bn by hi own words and face. one of the things he's doing here, it's a little about the claims when you get these scammed nigerian e-mails, they're deliberately incredible because the scammers don't want to weed out anyone with any skepticism. if they sent you a proper note that really looked like it was from citibank, you might pull in people who would jump off the train later. whereas, if you make it stupid

from the start, that's how you know you're dealing with real suckers. >> how do we persuade 40% of the country? margaret, you were editor of the "new york times." did you ever find evidence that the times would make up sources the way trump is alleging? >> no, there is no reason to think that. i was critical of "the times"' use of sources but i never thought they were made up. >> right. we're witnessing this unprecedented divide between the gop establishment with trump and it's also fractured the media. what happens to fox news after election day? how is this affecting conservative media? >> fox is reeling from its own internal trauma, t.

it is a genuine news entity with very capable people. you see that at 6:00, you see that with many people that work at fox news. then there's this other part that exists with mainline fantasy into the conservative bloodstream. i said in 2010 that republicans began by thinking fox worked for us, then we discovered we all worked for fox. i took some heat for that at the time, but that has become half of the fox identity, not the other half. and the question for that network is going to be, do they want to be a trusted news source, or do they want to be a fantasy bubble for people -- a safe space, a refuge, from political reality? >> breitbart as well, their role of bringing it into the mainstream. what has his role been this week, do you think, with trump's behavior? >> well, you know, when i saw the use of the clinton accusers at the debate, it certainly

seemed to have the name steve bannon written all over it. it's the kind of theater that he specializes in. and i think that he is a huge influence on that campaign, and the distance between breitbart and the trump campaign is virtually nothing at this point, and we've seen that for many months. >> and breitbart, its idea is that media is a sort of warfare, and that's what we're seeing. david, one last spot for you. we'll have the debate on wednesday. it's going to be moderated by chris wallace of fox news. it's the first time fox news has ever moderated a liberal debate. do you think concerns about chris wallace are granted right now? >> there is no one better than chris wallace. he'll do a fantastic job.

>> margaret, do you agree? >> i think he's tough. i was concerned when he said he didn't believe in fact checking. that bothered me, but i think in general he's a top aggressive interviewer and it's a hell of a job at this point. >> i think he may have a harder job than most moderators. glen greenwald is here. the mainstream president is ignoring the wikileaks release of clinton campaign e-mails. we'll talk about that in depth with glen right after the break.

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impact in my life. welcome back to "reliable sources." i'm brian stalter. donald trump is heaping praise on wikileaks while the clinton campaign condemns the publication of stolen e-mails.

wikileaks is publishing more e hire-mails every day. this type of document dump is irresistible to journalists. how newsworthy are these, really? joining me now is someone very familiar with leaked and hacked information, the man who helped break the snowden leaks wide open. >> they were in dig anatodignan took it and just didn't dump it all on the internet but we tried to protect it. all news organizations still haven't disclosed all of them or near all of them because of the effect it would have on some

people. we firmly believe if you get an archive of information, your responsibility as a journalist is not just to dump it on the internet for anyone to dig through but to protect people's privacy in everyone's best interest. sfw >> now that they have dumped these e-mails, they are going through them. is it ethical? >> it would be unethical if journalists ignored it. most of the information come from stolen materials, whether it be the pentagon papers, whether it be the snowden files, whether it be something to give to donna post so she could uncover heists. so many acts that lead to the best journalism are grounded in illegality. no journalist would say i'm only going to write something that is

based on reality. no one would think that way. >> examples of media collusion between the clinton campaign and journalists. the "new york times" offering quotes of clinton. the boston globe pumping up the campaign. univision pressured to attack trump. campaign bragged about media support, brazile deekd toleaked hall question. are these units of collusion? >> some of them are standard, normal jockeying back and forth between campaigns and journal li journalists. i think donna brazil leaking -- >> just explain to our audience at home what seems to have happened here. this was a cnn tv town hall back

in march. sanders and clinton both on stage. there is an e-mail that shows then cnn contributor and donna brazile leaking to palmera of the clinton campaign. cnn has flatly denied sharing any question, and to be honest, i've been inside one of these debate preps. i can't imagine a question leaking out. then again, somehow it did. cnn suggested that roland, her partner, may have been the one that sent it to donna brazile. >> but then she's the one that leaked it to the clinton campaign. >> right. we aren't sure how this happened. trump says, oh, clinton was given debate questions. so i feel like he's taken a grain of truth and turned it into a lie. >> first of all, there is this

massive disparity in this campaign. the clinton campaign has released her tax documents, we read her e-mail and see now the hack into her clinton campaign. on the other side you have almost no transparency into donald trump and his business practices and campaign because he won't even release his tax returns, which is incredibly hypocritical for him to act as though there are scandals being hidden when he said that about himself. that being said, there are certain aspects of these e-mails where critical governors or supporters seem business as usual, but to the ordinary person it sheds real light on the kind of games that get played, the kind of manipulation of public opinion that even if it's common is still really disturbing and, therefore, deserves lots of attention. >> when you say manipulation of public opinion, what are examples you see in these e-mails of that? >> there are places where they

say things being published are opposite of what clinton really believes, there is an e-mail who talks about the regime of qatar, one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet, was promising to give $1 million to cli the clinton foundation on bill clinton's birthday in return for five minutes of interviewing with him. that's not newsworthy. i don't think it's shocking that donald trump is a serial groper of women, but it's still extremely newsworthy, and that's what they would say about tradeoffs and money transfers as evidences by that e-mail. >> do you think conservatives are right to say there is an unfair imbalance?

>> i think it's simply the case that the political elite of the united states have united behind hillary clinton and against donald trump. but the other side of that is donald trump is so off the charts in terms of convention and what's normal and what's acceptable that even if it may not be justified, it's just inevitable that you put your eyes on this sort of explosion and this extreme amount of deviation from what's normal and pay attention to talking about it more than a sort of conventional campaign than hillary clinton's. >> off the charts. that's a good phrase to keep in mind. thanks for being here. >> thanks. up next, talking about trump's conspiracy theories, for example, election rigging, and why are they so dangerous, so off the charts? we'll be right back. when i was a little kid, i made a deal with myself

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. >> he is alleging a mass conspiracy, thereby creating a massive challenge for the news media. trump has been warning supporters not to trust the government or the media or the polls because it's all rigged, he says. in april he started saying this. >> the system, folks, is rigged. it's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system. >> that was a response to ted cruz winning delegates in that convoluted primary process. but as we know, trump won, so

maybe it's not didluted, after all? trump is a winner and he can't possibly be a loser unless it's somebody else's fault. so he kept planting more seeds like right here on the john hannity show. >> i'm telling you november 8, we better be careful because that election is going to be rigged, and i hope the republicans are watching closely or it's going to be taken away from us. >> the first couple times he said this, it was news. it was very disturbing news. it got a lot of attention. but over time the repetition, trump's lies about election rigging, have become a form of background noise, more of the same. and this is a propaganda technique whether trump knows it or not. if you say something often enough, if you plant enough seeds, people start to wonder, will my vote matter? will it actually count? now, you probably didn't hear this next trump seed because it's from monday of this week,

just one day after the second debate. >> even the polls are crooked. we have to make sure that this election is not stolen from us and is not taken away from us. and everybody knows what i'm talking about. >> everybody knows what i'm talking about. he's in the suburbs of philadelphia there. now, if you read right wing web sites that wrongly claim there is widespread voter fraud in places like philadelphia, then you might know what trump is talking about. but that remark, "we have to make sure the election is not stolen from us" mostly escaped scrutiny. the anchor who did play it, brianna keeler, to her credit, did not let supporter donald king dodge her question. >> i don't know if there's evidence or not. >> no, there isn't. >> there has been serious allegations -- >> he's talking about widespread voter fraud that would swing an

election in a state where polls show he is down considerably. i mean, what he is saying has no basis in reality. >> brianna is right, and we need to keep saying it. we as a country cannot allow ourselves to become numb to this. we as a media cannot shrug it off as old news. because the real danger here is that when trump lies to his supporters about the others who are trying to steal the election, some of his supporters believe him. >> our lives depend on this election. our kids' futures depend on this election. for me personally, if hillary clinton gets in, i myself, i'm ready for a revolution. >> mike pence was on stage, and he did try to temper her concerns. watch what he said to her. >> there's a revolution coming on november the 8th. i promise you. >> what are we going to do to safeguard our votes? >> so she said there, what are we going to do to safeguard our votes? this is the whole ball game and

this is what i really want to say. i'm proud that journalists are standing up individually, speaking up in ways that we rarely see. they're not anti-trump, they're pro democracy. julie pates writing for the ap today said trumps claims, made without evidence, undercuts the essence of american democracy. we haven't seen this system of government since the brink of the civil war. i know trump tries to dismiss these sources, which is why conservatives have to play a role here. on the day of donald trump's election, senator hannity accepted the results. >> the race for the white house has been called in obama's favor and the voice of the people were heard last night. they wanted barack obama for

four more years and now we have him. by the way, good look with that. >> let's remember that sound bite. will hannity psay that if clintn prevails three weeks from now? it's a test run by the states, not the federal government. thousands of volunteers and layers of oversight. so it's a test for our system, but what's happening saulsis al test for journalism. there is a lot the media can do to instill confidence. this might mean phone banks giving people a way to report possible fraud or deportation. this might also remind people that voter fraud is rare and it is prosecuted. we have an obligation to you, the audience, because trump has peddled this stuff before. on the night president obama was

reelecte reelected, trump through a fit. he wrote, we have to make america great again. mr. trump, think of your children. america is great partly because everyone accepts the results of elections. for decades in the past and hopefully for decades to come. inventing a conspiracy theory is no way to make america great again. coming up here on "reliable sources," the intimate departure of billy bush. his handling of the infamous trump tape. new reporting after the break. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face...

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welcome back to "reliable sources." this morning, nbc negotiating bill by lush's exit from the network. it will probably cost the

network millions of dollars. his departure could be announced as early as monday and it's all because of that leaked "access hollywood" tape showing donald trump making lewd and sexual comments about women. margaret sullivan says the explanations about what happened still don't add up. margaret rejoins me now from washington. margaret, what are the unsolved mysteries of this tape and its release? >> the whole thing seems rather strange, that the -- nbc now says they were planning to let their entertainment side, "access hollywood," actually break that story and that the news division would follow, and they're not really clear on when that was going to happen. you know, they were sitting on a huge story, and understandably, they had lawyers looking at it. that's completely understandable. the legal implications were bigger for nbc than they would be for the "washington post." it was their material.

but once the lawyers signed off, it seems as though you would want to get that on the air very fast, and that didn't happen. >> it seems like nbc has had a tortured relationship with trump. they had that interview that was pretty easy on him, they had fallon playing with trump's hair on the entertainment side. trump said nbc was out to get him by leaking this tape. do we have any evidence of who might have leaked it to the "washington post"? >> i have no idea, brian. i'm not hiding anything, i just don't know. >> let me also ask you about a big development this week. the unprotected journalist said donald trump is a threat to press freedom. what do you make of this statement, and does it start to prove trump supporters right when they say the media is out to get this candidate? >> that was a big deal for the community to protect journalists. i talked to the chairwoman of cpj, sandy rowe, about it.

they just don't get into politics, not nationally, not internationally, but they felt so strongly that trump is a threat to the first amendment and to press freedom and to journalists that they just had to say something, and they made a very strong statement. >> we will look for your column tonight. we'll be right back with the panel of trump biographers, stay tuned. we'll be right back. we asked people to write down the things they love to do most on these balloons. travel with my daughter. roller derby. ♪ now give up half of 'em. do i have to? this is a tough financial choice we could face when we retire. but, if we start saving even just 1% more of our annual income... we could keep doing all the things we love.

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let's end where we'll begin bringing back the round table of trump biographers timothy o'bryan and michael d antonio, never enough and pursuit of success and brad thomas, author of the trump factor, unlocking the secrets behind the trump umpire. brian, let me start with you. the debate on wednesday, the final debate. first of all, do you think it will be the highest rated debate yet or are people sick and tired

of this? >> i'm predicting this will be a record turnout. i think we're getting closer and closer and, you know, i really think three weeks away, we've seen the media and you've covered it great on the show today. >> thanks. >> i think what we're going to see is, you know, voters really wanting to focus on the most important elements of the election and obviously, we're hearing the media on both sides of the ticket and i think what voters really want to see from this debate are the most important things, the security of the country and the financial security of the country. those are the most important things and i hope we see this coming week. >> michael, let me ask you. i sort of in the back of my mind thought trump might bring up bill clinton's accusers, he was keeping that in the back pocket. since he did that in the second debate, are you expect something else? something lower? >> he is the king of stunts, so i wouldn't want to predict what he might do. i think they are looking for

something to pull off, you know, this is the last ditch for him, the last stand and i don't think that he has anything to say in terms of policy or politics that are going to matter. this is a personality-driven affair. it always has been. so if there is something he's going to use it. that's for sure. >> does it matter, tim, it's a fox news moderator, chris wallace this time? >> i think fox did a great job. chris wallace and megyn kelly were aggressive inquizzers in the debate and it's a tough job, as everybody knows. i think the issue is you've got a candidate now who is essentially a flame thrower. he's ready to burn it down with the media, with the political process. i hope if he continues with the media that the courts step in in an athortive way. the media, the courts, the

political process, we have someo someone. doesn't shy away the media institutional basis. one thing for individuals and are there things the media goes without plain the media has always done. the media is the favorite institution in the minds of voters. what the media should do is report the facts, stay on the trail with donald trump and stay on the trail with hillary clinton, report it through and really do continued service to the american voter which is to analyze donald trump for what it is. >> i think the facts also include an attempt of intimidation to the reporters at

these rallies. it's time for the cameras to be turned on these people snarling at reporters, who are threatening them physically. >> there is a sign left at a rally with -- now the crowd is booing the journalist trump arrives. >> i think it's a matter of safety. >> you do? >> these people are at risk. >> let me ask brad about that. you were at a rally on friday. what was your sense of the crowd's treatment of the media? did it make you uncomfortable? >> it really didn't. again, i don't consider myself, brian, actually media. i'm a business analyst. i cover real estate. >> when you're watching the crowd boo and we hear them chant cnn sucks, they are allowed to say whatever they want. that's what i love. when you say that and hear the victory does it worry you about consequences and violence? >> honestly, i would not consider myself harmed or be

compromised if i were sitting back there with some of the media. i -- you know, i don't really think i would not feel harmed in that way. i've been to a number of rallies and i feel very secure in these rallies. again, i've probably attended 20 or 30 rallies over the last year and i do not feel insecure at all. more concerned about potential for the violence. >> if you're not in that press pattern and you have the faces, the spitting, angry faces turned toward you with fists raised, you're not going to feel threatened but these are some of these reporters are young and they are vulnerable and i think even just walking into these events, the reporters i know who cover them, they hear stuff that, you know, you wouldn't hear in a locker room to use a donald trump expression. >> that is absolutely the case. michael, tim, that's all for

this televised edition of reliable. trump is equating the media to clinton and why that's wrong because on the newsletter, delivered see you next week. avalanche, one woman. >> he put his hand over it. >> he began thrusting genitals. >> he was grabbing my breasts. >> accusing donald trump of sexual aggression. >> these claims are all fabricated. they are pure fiction and out right lies. >> are more charges to come. plus conspiracy claims. >> the election is rigged, rigged like you've never seen before. >> what will trump tell his supporters to do if he