this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. donald trump and hillary clinton will face off in their final debate in just 14 hours. clinton widening her lead according to the polls. trump needs to do something to increase his reach. now, can he do that given his repeated claims of a rigged election and the flood of accusations by women that he calls liars. >> clinton, of course, has her own challenges from the revelations and the hacked e-mails to new undercover video suggesting the democratic operative may have insight inci violence at trump rallies. let's begin our coverage with manu raju live in las vegas. >> donald trump had one of the worst months of any presidential. his rocky debate performances

and his bitter fights with his own party. so, the question is tonight whether he can reverse that downward slide here in this debate hall. ahead of tonight's final debate, donald trump throwing a hail mary. going after washington and intensifying his unfounded claim that the election is rigged. >> they even want to try and rig the election at the polling booths. >> reporter: even calling on his supporters to monitor polling places. >> people are going to be watching on november 8th. >> reporter: and doubling down on his media conspiracy theories. >>alize there's a voter fraud with the media because say so poison the mind of people by writing false stories. >> reporter: the gop nominee pledging to shakeup washington. >> it is time to drain the swamp. >> reporter: now promising if elected he will push for term limits for members of congress. a populous proposal that has yet to succeed. >> decades of political failure

and special interest collusion must and will finally come to an end. >> reporter: trump opting not to respond to president obama, who ridiculed the billionaire's voter fraud accusations. >> you start whining before the game's even over. if whenever things are going badly for you and you lose you start blaming somebody else. then you don't have what it takes to be in this job. >> reporter: instead announcing that he's bringing obama's k kennier half-brother malik to tonight's debate. trump and hillary clinton head into tonight's final debate with looming controversies. undercover videos released tuesday produced by conservative activists james o' keefe suggest it was democratic opteratives working for the clinton campaign instigating violence at some trump rallies. >> it is not hard to get some of them to pop off. >> reporter: both the dnc and the clinton campaign deny any

involvement. and those on the tape deny any of the proposed schemes ever took place. meanwhile, trump is facing accusations from at least nine women who say he made unwanted advances without their consent. >> these are people who are trapped. put his hands under somebody's skirt on an airplane. >> reporter: trump rejects those claims but senate democratic leader harry reid blasting trump's behavior. >> it is kind of a sickness. >> now, clinton has been off the campaign trail for several days. she tries to fine tune a message aimed at courting those moderate independent voters and also to turn those red states blue come november. but, also, alisyn, hillary clinton tonight may have to address all those damaging revelations that came out in the e-mails obtained by wikileaks, something that her campaign has yet to do in any sort of meaningful way. >> we'll talk about that, manu. thank you for the reporting. joining me scottie nell

hughes and christine quinn. ladies, great to have you. for my first question, here is the rule. you may not other your opponent's name. this is my first, just for the first question. okay. what, christine, does your candidate, hillary clinton, basically in a couple of sentences need to do tonight? >> secretary clinton needs to continue to send the message she sent that she is strong, the most fit to be president of the united states, has a vision that really is going to help all americans. >> does she need to spell out that vision? that has been a big question that she hasn't articulated her vision other than in contrast to her opponent. >> if you look at all the position papers out there and you look at her tax plan, which unlike another person in the race actually helped middle class americans, reduce taxes on billionaires. i think she has. now, look, this has been a hard race for both candidates for

issues to rise above. i think tonight is a perfect opportunity for hillary to kind of put a punctuation mark on the end of this campaign and really make it clear, she is the person who is going to lead this country, particularly working class and middle class americans to a place of tax relief, job creation and a really strong future. >> scottie, what does donald trump need to do tonight? >> donald trump needs to continue to separate himself from the establishment. the political establishment, as well as to show about what is so corrupt about washington, d.c., which is a feeling the majority of americans on both sides of the aisle need to show it. he is an outsider and a voice of the people. you saw him yesterday release his plan talking about how he was going to do reforms including term limits. a suggestion that resonates with democrats and libertarians. show something that his opponent represents which is her background, all of her experience is all washington,

d.c., political experience. and how that system is -- >> you are breaking the rule. it is so hard for you guys not to talk about your opponent. let's talk about one of the things that may come up and this is a controversy affecting hillary clinton. the new videos released by james o'keefe's outfit that show democratic operatives trying to incite violence at donald trump rallies. trump rally tactics for you. >> and, honestly, it is not hard to get some of them to pop off. >> right. >> it's a matter of showing up to want to get into the rally in a planned parenthood t-shirt or, you know, trump is a nazi, you could message to draw them out and draw them to punch here.

>> okay, christine. if you can believe what this man is saying here, this democratic operative. he is sending people to trump rallies to try to get them pop off and punch them to show the violence. how is hillary clinton going to address this one tonight? >> i don't grant any validity to this video at all. >> even though you hear him in his own words saying this. i mean, how could they be fudging this? >> we've seen many different tapes in history over the last few years or so and we put together and really focused on attacking aggressive groups like planned parenthood and found out afterwards that the tapes were cut and spliced and they show something totally different than what happened. i have no doubt in my mind that no one associated with the democratic party or with hillary clinton's campaign would ever do something like that.

it is absurd and, look, i -- >> you don't think that the dnc worked with this outside robert kramer group to try to stage counterprotests? >> counterprotests outside? >> yes, counterprotests. that's what he said he was tasked with doing. >> i'm sure that happened and i'm sure the rnc set up protests outside of hillary -- >> you're saying nobody tried to provoke trump supporters to violence? >> no. absolutely it would never happen in hillary clinton's campaign. >> what is interesting is you hear christine saying i don't believe that tape, i don't believe the words on that tape. other people say, if he did say those things, it never translated to action. these are the same words trump campaign used about hearing donald trump's own words on tape about the alleged sexual assault of women. how big of a role does this tape play? >> he never denied those were his words. >> he didn't deny it. this guy can't deny they are his

words. did it translate to action? >> donald trump never raised that the billy bush tape was cut or spliced. >> what i said was locker room talk and it never translated to action. >> okay. but i'm going further. i'm not even buying that this video is legit. >> scottie, how do you see it? >> i don't know how you can do that because robert kramer is a very well-known democrat. most people in the married to a congresswoman. he had a lot of credibility up until these videos were released. >> the person we heard in the video is scott foggal who is a contractor saying what he plans to do. robert kramer is only saying he is staging these counterprotests. go ahead, scottie. >> obviously, at this point they severed all ties and both had basically had to resign or be fired. there was no wrongdoing they should be standing up for

themselves. the point about all this and this is the difference, there were acts that were taken. we did see people in the rally in chicago shut down and we saw assault on trump supporters. so many specifics that are laid out here that there are actions that match up with these men's words. and this is very sad. i think this is one of the deepest, darkest skeletons that have come out just like the wikileaks might not like how we found out the secrets. we found them out and that doesn't mean that they're not legit and people lost their jobs and had to resign because of it. just say it's wrong, i'm sorry, we shouldn't have done it and move on. instead of take accountability for it. >> let me just say something. let's be clear here. scottie is talking on behalf of the trump campaign and mr. trump the candidate. let's not forget, this is a man who at his rallies we saw people sucker punch senior citizens. we saw donald trump say he

would -- >> that's not fair. donald trump did say, hey, you should punch that guy. anybody who is protesting, you should punch them in the mouth. they should be taken out on a stretcher. >> and i'll pay for their lawyers. >> because we -- now it backs up that we knew this was a planned attack. >> still, the rhetoric doesn't follow. >> that was their goal. >> based on what you're now saying connecting two and two and making six, which doesn't make any sense. you then were correct and needed to sucker punch a senior citizen. that does not add up. i have been involved in a lot of democratic campaigns. >> why wouldn't you just say -- >> why would the presidential candidate say punch in the face. that does take it to a different level. >> we found out they were trained, they were encouraged to do everything they can to instigate. it was the fact that the man was

cursing and spitting on people and racial slurs. >> scottie, that's why we have security guards who take people out. that's the response to that and that donald trump said, punch him. shows exactly why he can't be president of the united states. what is he going to say when an international leader makes him ann annoyed. >> christine, scottie, chances are this will come up tonight. ladies, thank you very much for this debate here. stay with cnn for live coverage of tonight's debate begins at 4:00 p.m. eastern and be sure to watch the debate at 9:00 p.m. right here on cnn. chris? tonight's debate a big character test for both candidates. who will emerge the winner in this final show down? also, trump is calling for congressional term limits. what do two sitting lawmakers think about that? we'll ask them, next. ♪

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all right. the idea that the debate might get ugly tonight is an easy one to have. everything else has. but what is really what needs to get done by clinton and by trump to move the needle tonight? character will come up, probably no matter what the topics are. forceful arguments on each side. let's get a little taste of what might happen tonight. >> so, yes, this is who donald trump is. but it's not only women and it's not only this video that raises questions about his fitness to be our president. he has also targeted immigrants, african-americans, latinos, people with disabilities, p.o.w.s, muslims. >> bill clinton was abusive to women. hillary clinton attacked those same women. and attacked them viciously. i think it's disgraceful and i think she should be ashamed of herself, if you want to know the

truth. >> what will it take for someone to come out on top tonight? let's discuss with two congressmen from new york. and democrat hakim jeffries, he supports hillary clinton. gentlemen, let's talk about you guys first. one of the things that just came up in the campaign is trump calling a plan to have term limits. i say plan, i'll direct it to you, first, congressman collins, it's a deceptive word. he can't get this done. as we all know and maybe trump knows, too. congress is going to have to make term limits happen. you'll have to have a constitutional amendment. super majority among you guys and three-fourths the state. very hard to do. do you think there is any chance of term limits for congress? >> well, i think the public would say we certainly need term limits. most of us would support term limits. what donald trump is doing is addressing the nation as the change agent. someone who says it's broken in washington and he also talked about his ethics reform package.

he's talking about the problems that the public knows are in congress. many folks call them the career politicians who never held a job in the private sector and never signed the front of a paycheck. he's speaking as the change agent. of course, there's a process that we'd have to go through. the republicans i believe, i'd support it. i think it's a good message for him to be on because right now congressional approval ratings are in the single digits. 8%, 9%, 10%. i think it's a good message point for donald trump and he can leave the details for later. >> see, it's interesting how congressman collins explains it, good for trump to play on this. people are angry at congress and changing it sounds good. but is it a realistic proposal for him to say i'll get a constitutional amendment passed to make term limits? >> unrealistic proposal and

you're not going to get three-fourths of the states to ratify it for a good reason. we need meaningful campaign finance reform and we can't have unlimited outside money from billionairs and millionaires being pour under to the system and we need redistricting reform because you have a situation right now where the politicians are choosing the voters, as opposed to the voters choosing the politicians. these are actual real things that hillary clinton supports that are good for democracy. donald trump is desperate right now and he's flailing and throwing anything out there and term limits isn't a solution to the problem. >> to the extent that character comes up tonight, congressman collins, what do you think donald trump needs to do to come out on top? >> t >> two-thirds of the public or more know that hillary clinton is a liar and the two faces of hillary clinton is coming out. the fact through wikileaks she

says one thing -- >> let's see if we can congressman collins back. we lost the satellite feed. he's making a point of advantage, which i will now make and not as gently as the congressman was just doing it. we've never seen a democratic nominee be disliked or untrusted the way hillary clinton is. why are those not disqualifying flaws for the electorate? >> because she's been beaten up for more than 30 years as a first lady of the united states of america, united states senator and secretary of state, two-time presidential candidate. she's been subjected to attack after attack from the right wing. >> with cause or without cause? >> totally without cause. >> totally without cause. >> well, chris, she made a mistake and has acknowledged it. >> that's the cause, congressman. the e-mail server, her choice. wrong arguably illegal. her choice, cause. >> she made a mistake and she

acknowledged it. certainly wasn't illegal. we have the fbi under the leadership of james comey who is a republican argued she did nothing wrong. >> come comey was put there at fbi by a democratic administration and a mistake is when i hit my cup and i knock it over and alisyn says, not again, you're an idiot. when you choose to have a server in your basement. not a mistake. when you say you got approval for it and you did not. not a mistake. >> well, i think it's a mistake that she's acknowledged and that's the test of character strength. because we're all imperfect as human beings, but as leaders you need to acknowledge when you make a mistake and then move forward. from a policy perspective what she needs to do tonight is continue to demonstrate that she's prepared, poised, presidential and let donald trump be donald trump. because at the end of the day, you know, he's running around

the country like a tasmanian devil out of control, harming everything in his path and just waiting for the american people to pull the plug on november 8th and hopefully relieve us of our long nightmare. if she maintains the high grounds and speak to the importance of the american people to the economy and beyond she will prevail in this debate. >> tasmanian devil, one of my favorite looneyen to en ten t t. congressman collins, you're back. series of choices by clinton, but, please, play to advantage and make the case that you think trump has to make tonight. >> well, again, he's the change agent and that hillary clinton is the status quo. two-thirds of america know that the country is headed in the wrong direction. our borders are porous and they haven't gone up and jobs are

being lost. he needs to be cool, calm and collected and a demeanor that simply indicates that he is the change agent that is going to be able to bring our jobs back, secure our borders and defeat isis and stand up and make america great, again. contrast that to hillary clinton effectively representing a third term of barack obama who has failed this nation with stagnant wages, all the divisiveness that we have in this nation, the unrest in the cities and so forth. so, as the change agent, he needs to speak to many of the folks concerned about the future of their children and grandchildren to live the american dream in the land of opportunity. and if he can do that in a calm, cool, collected demeanor, i think he will bring some folks in under his tent where they know they've decided. they're not going to vote for hillary clinton. you can't trust a thing she says. she is self-serving lining her own pockets and stands up first. clinton family first. so, if he can differentiate

himself as the change agents the status quo, i think that's going to carry the day because two-thirds of the country say we're going in the wrong direction. >> so, both of you got a chance to lay out why you think your candidate is better. i feel better now myself. chris collins, thank you very much. thanks for sticking around. hakeem jeffries, thank you. both of you, thank you very much. a lot of role playing on this show so far this morning and i think we're going to continue that. for months we heard accusations that trump supporters were baiting supporters and now this undercover video that appears to back up some of those claims. so, up next, cnn examines whether this group hired by the dnc was behind some of these provocations. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available virtual cockpit.

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all right. online a lot of discussion certainly among you guys on the right about this new undercover video that appears to show democratic operatives hired by the dnc explaining how they could easily provoke trump supporters into violence at rallies. now, the video comes from a controversial source. a conservative activist who has a checkered history of his own. it's called the varitas project. drew griffin joins us now with more. what do you see in terms of what this video may have to offer and what should be the qualifications for people who do see it. >> if you look at the video like we did, we didn't look at the produced parts, we looked that sound bites of the people involved in this undercover. what you're seeing are these

democratic operatives hired by the dnc to work with the clinton campaign. they were paid to bring protests to press conferences and counterevents everywhere that mike pence and donald trump took place. and in the video we have this person here scott fogle explaining how his role was to insight violence and he tells us how he did it. >> it is not hard to get some of them to pop off. >> right. >> it's a matter of showing up in a planned parenthood t-shirt or, you know, trump is a nazi. you know, you can message to draw them out and draw them to punch here. >> since this video came out scott foval no longer works for democracy partners. he has been let go. the person in charge of this

project at democracy partners bob kramer, well-known democrat, husband of a democratic congresswoman, has also voluntarily stepped aside from working with the clinton campaign. >> now, the question becomes is this with cause or blow back? how do you feel? people are going to say, o'keefe, project veritas got busted in the past for doing things wrong and criticized for selective editing. the other thing is the person says what they say. >> i talked to bob kramer also on tape and caught undercover. he never said what the words said here were edited. he said this was bar room talk. >> is this the new manifestation of locker room talk. >> that's what he said. bar room talk and his guy bragging about something. no evidence this ever had -- i'll give you a little statement. with respect to his comments, with respect to scott foval, we

have gone to extreme measures to make sure no violence took place at any of our counter protest events. now we're going to see, is anybody going to come forward and say, wait, something did happen or nothing did happen. >> right now we know violence often at trump rallies, shouldn't say often, but we don't know that any of these people that we are talk about were there creating the situations that led to violence. >> that's correct. they're saying it didn't happen on tape. scott foval, the man talking about specific events in wisconsin, las vegas, north carolina, where he says he was intricately involved. >> drew, quick work on this. thank you for the turn around. let's discuss all this. cnn national reporter and david gregory. you guys just heard all of drew griffin's reportings on there. david gregory, how big of an issue do you think this is for

hillary's campaign? >> if i am the trump campaign i use this and put this in the same category as the basket of deplorables comment that here is actions on the part of the clinton team, however large, however lose that confederation is, to try to be dismissive of trump supporters. to try to stir things up to make them look bad. at the same time, the reality is in a lot of these rallies combustible situations. you have donald trump who has been whipping up violence against people including the media and the way he talks. wouldn't be surprising if you put democratic activists together with some of these trump supporters that things could happen, whether engineered or natural. so, i'm not sure what the impact is other than to maybe reaffir the view of those people who don't like hillary clinton that there is some dirty pool here in all of this to make trump look bad. >> politics is a dirty game and that's the point that this video makes and it feeds the trump

argument that it's all rigged. how does the clinton campaign escape that illusion? >> i think he will be able to make that argument, certainly, chris. that reinforces the point that so much of politics is theater, not just what you're seeing up on stage, but the people who show up at rallies, et cetera. at the same time, having been at some of these trump rallies where there has been this kind of violence, there is some heated confrontations there. there are passions that are running high. so, i don't think that, you know, most people should take away from this tape that it's all, you know, staged by any stretch of the imagination. the tensions are running so high in america right now and at these events that this has been really has been a common occurrence and one that we don't see often in presidential cycles. >> so, david, does this come up tonight? >> oh, i'm sure it will. i think if trump has the ability

to be disciplined enough to make the case on new revelations about clinton e-mail, about, you know, this tape. could try to further his argument that has no merit to it that the game is rigged in the most general sense. everyone is lining up to be against him. i don't know how that helps him add to where he is. hillary clinton wants to expose all that and try to trip himself up but the other tricky part of what he has to do is really mark an argument for her candidacy and for her vision particularly as she tries to expand the map and win a state like arizona where she is very competitive. >> it is interesting, isn't it, maeve, that these candidates have both chosen to try to make advantage out of their biggest disadvantages. we have never seen the way these two are and yet they keep going to that place instead of area wheres they might be better off. >> yeah. and i think to david's point, she clearly needs to make a

compelling argument tonight for her candidacy. i can't tell you how many times i've been out on the trail talking toundecided voters who still don't understand what her message is or what she stands for. i think tonight is her last chance to make that big argument to the extent that, you know, both of them don't get dragged down by one another. i do think she'll be trying to land some more punches tonight than she did. she held back in that last debate. but this is her last shot. >> i mean, that's a problem, maeve, i mean, 20 days until the election and people say, they say they don't know what she stands for. give us this past year of our life back. i mean, they've been on the campaign trail for a year. people i think knew what bernie sanders stood for and they know that donald trump stands for something different. so, what do you think, david, she's going to say about that tonight? her vision. >> it has to be in part a paoliy

vision but stands to the argument she has been making. fitness for office. it's baiting him in those ways where he's temperamentally unfit. our polling still shows up over 60% of voters don't think he's qualified and i think she sticks with that argument down the stretch and tries to keep building on that success among women. >> you know, part of it is just slogan. make america great, again. it's obvious, grab it. with her she has stronger together but i'm with her is what they used even more which detaches with the person and not the message. >> david, maeve, thank you. lots of coverage to be had with this debate. it will begin here on cnn at 4:00 p.m. eastern. please, watch the debate at 9:00 p.m. right here on cnn. another very important story is the battle for mosul. it, of course, is dangerous.

isis fighters are using civilians who were left behind as human shields. iraqi troops are trying to root them out. how long will this last? we have a retired general who is going to walk us through what's happening.

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iraqi and kurdish forces are fighting to retake mosul from isis. troops are moving in from the south and the east with small u.s. force teams and isis fighters are digging in. the says the group is now using civilians as human shields. we've heard about that before from this man. retired general james marks. you understand the terms of play in terms of the strategic significance of this place. let's go through both. we're standing on the world.

specifically, the region, mosul. where it is, second biggest city. why does it matter then versus now? >> if iraq is going to be a government that has the capability to govern, you can't have an occupied city, especially occupied by isis fighters which has been the case over the past couple of years. mosul has to be retaken and be a part of a solvent and sovereign iraq. it's not right now. it's got to get back under iraqi control. >> it's like chicago being taken over by, you know, bad guys and you still think you have a contained america. winter 2015 was pretty much the height, right? >> right. >> what did it give them this range of control in this area. >> quite significant. if you look at what isis is able to do. it has morphed in a whole bunch of different ways. across the border they've penetrated into iraq. it's completely without borders now. that part of the world.

this caliphate, if you will, that they've created includes mosul. it is significant to the iraqi government and second largest city and a contested region in iraq. you have the kurds for their own designs of what they're looking at in terms of a future. doubly important that they plant a flag and that fight in mosul will be very, very nasty. we've seen the initial stages of how very tough that is going to be. >> now, many of the brothers and sisters who serve this country when you say the name mosul they still wince from the fights we had against al qaeda and the last generation of this war. one of the things that happened there was intense urban fighting where you had the enemy using places of worship and using women and using kids and using homes and fighting from behind people and they're seeing signs of that with isis. a lot of guys and their forefathers were al qaeda guys and how do you deal with this?

>> this is learned behavior. we've seen this before and we're seeing this now. we'll see this over the duration of this entire fight. you'll deal with it as delicately. not on the horns of a dilemma, but these counterveiling pressures. you have to be incredibly vicious. you have to be incredibly precise, but delicate where you have to be delicate. we're hecking a lot of these iraqi security forces. on one block we may be trying to teen teeth and establish a medical facility and evacuate citizens and try to take care of the wounded on the next block and blowing stuff up viciously and a terrible fight. on the third block, you're trying to advance what governance is going to look like. >> you have a million innocence in there and every time a group of them gets killed, you have propaganda. >> it's like digging a tumor, sadly, out of a cancerous tumor out of someone's body. you have to do that very, very precisely, delicately. you have to use every capability

that you have to do that so that it's final. it's got to be final. >> you don't have the best fighters in the world on the ground. >> no. >> you do not have the u.s. men and women doing this fighting in the main. these security, even though i never liked this idea of advisors. they're going to be there and be in harm's way and that should be america's concern, but how long do you think it takes? one of the kurdish leaders says we think we can get it done in a couple months. many of the americans who have been there before say, that's ambitious. >> every voice that's public has multiple constituencies. someone says we will get this done in two months. that resonates with us, that's good. we have a horizon. this is going to be a very long fight. it certainly will exceed the estimates of two to three months. and then once you're there, you have to decide what it looks like going forward. that's when the real hard work, sadly, that's when the real hard work begins. everybody is a camae claimant a a design on what the future looks like. >> you know, general, you have

been a voice on this, but really important for you to know this at home. the men and women in charge of doing the fighting are not in charge of what happens. they're always the ones that warn you at home, hey, this isn't over once it's over and it's the politicians who need to think about that and they have never gotten it right yet. general marks, thanks, as always. president obama is telling donald trump to stop whining about his claims about a rigged election. our next guest did the research and they know the facts on voter fraud. what is real and what is fake. you're going to get answers, next. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

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protests turning violent outside the u.s. embassy in the philippines. police using force to clear out 1,000 anti-american protesters, voicing support for their new president, who has not shied away from criticizing president obama. we have cnn's alexandra field live in hong kong with the breaking details. alexandra? >> hey, chris. it certainly got ugly outside of the embassy. we have to warn people that the video is graphic, it is violent. you're going to see what happened from a couple of different angles. this is the clash between protesters and police. we understand several dozen police and protesters were injured.

that's a police van backing up into this,000 of 1,000 and accelerating forward, hitting people, dragging one person under the police van itself. now the police are saying that the driver of that van panicked after the crowd surrounded the car. they were hitting that car with sticks. this all started when that crowd gathered outside the embassy. they were throwing red paint, meant to represent blood on the u.s. embassy. police tried to break up the crowd using tear gas and hoses. you can see them in there with shields and also batons. about two dozen people were ultimately arrested for their role in the demonstration. this was a group that is protesting foreign policy with the u.s. saying it's an unequal foreign policy. they are supporting philippines president rodrigo duterte who is trying to create space with its staunch ally the u.s. he is currently on a trip to china working to strengthen relations there. alisyn? >> my gosh that tape is just so shocking every time you see it. thank you for that reporting. well, president obama sending a strong message to donald trump about his claims of a rigged election.

i have never seen in my lifetime, or in modern political history any presidential candidate trying to discredit the elections and the election process before votes have even taking place. you start whining before the game's even over, it -- it -- it -- whenever things are going badly for you and you lose you start blaming somebody else, then you don't have what it takes to be in this job. >> well our next guests both conducted major research projects on the issue of voter fraud. they know the facts. they are here to share them with us. let's discuss with the president of the brennan center for justice at nyu school of law, and constitutional lawyer michael waldman, and the editorial director for news 21

at arizona state university, he's the professor at its walter cronkite school of jourmism leonard downey jr. professor i want to start with you because you and your students spent just an -- an incredible amount of time looking into the issue of voter fraud. you looked at all 50 states. you looked at a billion, with a "b," votes cast between the years 2000 and 2001. what did you find in terms of voter fraud? >> by querying all 50 states for prosecutions for voter fraud we found only about 2,000 from the year 2000 to the year 2012. and only 10 of those actually involved voters trying to impersonate somebody else at the polls, which is what trump is -- is saying would be widespread. and then we decided in 2016 to go back again, to five key states where officials had been worried about voter fraud and we

found only about 38 prosecutions for any kind of vote fraud during that period and no prosecutions for voter impersonation. >> okay. very interesting findings. so, 2,000 cases, mr. waldman, over the course of ten years, so 200 a year, in disparate states, that they were able to identify. that would not sway a national election. it probably wouldn't sway a local election. what has your -- what has the brennan center found about voter fraud? >> well, we and basically everybody who's looked at this, have found the same thing. that the cronkite school found. the supposed widespread voter fraud is not a reality. even these examples, mostly are things that are maybe an absentee ballot issue where someone voting by accident -- >> meaning a mistake. there are 2000 instances they found but these are mistakes basically. >> and they're not things that donald trump is talking about. and they're not the kind of

conduct that a lot of these laws that make it harder for people to vote would actually touch. those -- again are this in person matter. and as a statistical matter, you are more likely to be hit by lightning in the united states than to commit in-person voter fraud. so you know, what we should be focusing on, i think, is actually making sure that everybody know they have the right to vote, and be able to get that vote counted. and not be scared by all this stuff. >> you talked about something that donald trump has mentioned, and one of the things professor that he's mentioned is that he believes that illegal immigrants have been able to vote and, in fact, were able to somehow influence the election of president obama. let me play for you what donald trump said on monday. >> then there's the issue of illegal immigrants voting. the following comes from a 2014 report from "the washington post." because noncitizens tend to favor democrats, to put it

mildly, obama won more than 80% of the votes of noncitizens in the 2008 sample. you don't read about this, right? they don't tell you about this. your politicians don't tell you about this when they tell you how legit mat all of these elections are. >> professor downie, donald trump cites this "washington post" report. what is he talking about? >> i haven't the slightest idea. slightest idea about that. there are no documented instances around the country of noncitizens registering to vote or voting. at all. and the the secretaries of state in maine, and -- in maine and ohio, who are conservative republicans, have recently said that in their states they have no evidence of this whatsoever. >> okay, mr. waldman, illegal immigrants cannot vote. >> they cannot vote. there's no reason to think they would vote. there's no reason to think they want to stride into a government office and announce who they are and where they live. and the -- this is a phenomenon

of scare stories, and what's interesting is this, what we're hearing from donald trump right now, is kind of a cartoon version of a lot of the charges that a lot of politicians have been making over the years about oh, there must be voter fraud? we can't actually point to it. but it's invisible but it must be out there. it's understandable that people hear this noise over and over again. they think it might be true, it's really important that we listen to the conservative republican secretary of state of ohio, for example, who said let's be very clear the elections have integrity, they're not rigged, people should, i think, stand up to this phony idea of it being rigged by voting. >> obviously fact checking which is what we're trying to do with both of you, if there is a difference between voter fraud and voter registration, fraud, because we do have examples of dead people still being on the registration rolls.

this is not fraud. the registration rolls have to be cleaned up every year because people move. people move from one state to another. from one county to another. people die who -- and nobody calls up the registration office and said my father just died, please take him off the registration roll. so they have to be cleaned up periodically. the pew center did a study awhile back showing that there needed to be more cleaning up of registration rolls and states have gotten together to compare their registration rolls, they're cleaning them up, and that is not an issue. >> thank you very much for sharing your years of research with us so that we can have the facts. i appreciate you being here. thank you. we're following a lot of news so let's get right to it. >> when it comes to washington, d.c., it is time to drain the dam swamp. >> start whining before the game's even over? >> we've just begun to fight. they even want to try and rig the election. >> despite all of the terrible

things he has said and done, he is still trying to win this election. >> she's home sleeping and i'm working. the way it's going to be in the white house, too. >> whenever things are going badly for you, you start blaming somebody else? you don't have what it takes to be in this job. >> this is "new day," with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> it's "new day" but it's debate night. good morning, everyone. welcome to your new day the final presidential debate between donald trump and hillary clinton is now 13 hours away. can trump turn around his poll numbers? and how much time will be spent on the claim of a rigged election? versus the accusations of unwanted advances against trump? >> now, there's no question trump comes in with a lot of baggage but clinton has her own challenges. what we've been seeing in these stolen e-mails, she's going to have to answer for some of the questions that are raised. now you have this undercover video