this is "gps" the local public square. welcome to you in the united states and around the world, i'm fareed zakaria. what would a trump presidency look like? i know what you're thinking but he still might win and if he does, what would his first actions be? who would be in his cabinet? how would he govern? then a rare in depth interview with goldman sachs ceo, the bank and its chief have been frequent topics on the champagne trail. i ask whether he supports hillary clinton and what did he make of her now famous speeches to goldman sachs.

>> if it were me, in her position, i would have wanted to reveal. >> an important revealing conversation. also, inside the wikileaks data budump, releases are an attempt to make hillary clinton look bad but why does wikileaks want to sink her canadidacy and is it clear putin is behind it all? but first, here is my take. we will get to the campaign in a moment, but there is something else important going on. the battle for mosul will soon demonstrate that the key to success against isis is not that washington should have surprised it or bombed the hell out of it. around 100,000 coalition forces are involved in helping to liberate the city of mosul. backed by air power. they will face up to 5,000 isis fighters at most. the struggle might be bloody but the coalition will win.

the problem is a battle field victory could prove to be irrelevant. when donald trump rails against the obama administration for having signalled the intent to retake mosul, he is, as usual, ill informed. perhaps he has a few vivid examples of movies from surprise attacks like the d-day invasion of normandy of 1944 but unusual cases. from the dare it took mosul, isis knew the iraqi army would try to take it back given the desert there are only a few open paths by which to approach the city. this lack of surprises on the war fair. the real challenge for the coalition is ensure in retaking mosul, it does not set off the same sectarian dynamics that led to the city's fall in the first place. remember, mosul is a majority sunni city. the reason it fell so easily in 2014 was that its residents were

misruled and abused by iraq's shiite government under then prime minister maliki. as a result, when confronting a choice between shiite militias from the iraqi government and isis, they sided with isis or remain passive. over the past two years, iraqi forces often shiite militia have liberated some sunni towns like fallujah but embarked on a new round. from the perspective of the shiite they are engaging in extreme vetting to ensure isis sympathizers are weeded out but sunni residents feel they are being wounded up, presumed guilty and denied entry back into the homes and neighborhoods. the root cause for the rise of isis in iraq and syria is political. the discontent of sunnis in the region who see themselves as being ruled by two anti sunni regimes and baghdad and iraq and damascus and syria, now some of this is the resentment of a

sunni population that believes it should be in power. some of it is a response to genuine persecution by shiite. in any event, without advising discontent, isis will never stay defeated. when mosul fell, experts including within the obama administration wanted washington to rush to the aid of the iraqi government but president obama resisted the calls because he understood that the underlying problem was sectarian. he insisted that the iraqi government fund mentally change its attitude towards the sunnis in effect demanding the prime minister mall laiki resigned. only then did america agree to military support the baghdad government. you see, every government wants a free ride. most would be happy if the united states would simply fight their battles for them with no strings attached. in the arab world in particular,

this attitude is wide spread. the only strategy that seems effective is for washington to signal that it will not pick up the slack and mean it. it was only when it became clear that the obama administration would not help iraq unless the government changed that ma lackey resigned. this was once described by an obama official as leading from behind and while the phrase is unfortunate, the idea is exactly right. in this case, it is only the arabs that can address the sectarian dynamic by engaging in genuine reckon sionciliation anr sharing and they can help only if these countries and their leaders actually want to help themselves. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my washington post column this week and let's get started.

it's hard to find an election forecast that does not have donald trump losing on november 8th but there is a possibility trump will be president. and in any event, i think it is revealing to try to understand just what the transition would look like, whether it's trump or clinton. evan, staff righter for the new yorker has written the definitive article how the gop candidate would govern titled president trump. melody barns was a tree transition official as the obama maryla administration failed to come to power in 2009. they both join me. melody, you describe to me a moment when it's inauguration day, inaugural day and you walk into the white house. what happens? >> we were cold and we were already exhausted from the campaign and transition, and i remember making my way through the parade, literally, through

the parade, getting my i.d., taking that picture which is an awful picture to the day and walking into the white house and finding my office and the phones were ringing. i mean, it gives you a very strong sense that the government is always an operation. >> when you did the transition, were you stunned by the extent of what you had to do? you described it to me as almost the take over of a company. >> exactly f. you think about taking some of the largest companies in the world and bolted together exxon and walmart and doubled them in size, you would still not reach the size of the united states government with over 3 million employees and the size, a $3 trillion budget. so you have to recognize that there are many departments and agencies and employees and litigation underway, there are regulations and any number of things that are already in motion and because of the promises that were made during the campaign, because of the governing philosophy of the candidate that you work for, you have to be prepared to walk in the door and make some decisions

about how you're going to proceed. >> you've got to identify the 4,000 people the president has to appoint within weeks. >> absolutely. one of the things -- in fact, one of the things that's most memorable for me and a significant issue for this election is that the bush administration was so helpful to us during that transition period. and they said to us, there are about 250 positions you really need to think about very, very quickly and very early on. people also gave us advice you need to get the white house staff in place because you have to have a heart beat for the entire organ to operate around. so you have to think about getting these people in place, who can be confirmed with less controversy and how you're going to move forward. what is of concern of me today, not only do you have those issues front and center but there is also legitimacy of

the election and that affects president clinton when she walks in the door or the entire country as the fundamentals of our democracy. >> it's not just that he comes up with the experience and very radical approach and the people, one of his key advisors said to you in the article, we believe that on day one he has to sign 25 executive orders that erase the obama presidency. can he do that as president? >> technically, yes. the trump campaign is run income radical opposition. the obama administration represents and what they said say they would come in the door and using powers seek to in the words of a campaign advisor erase much of the obama administration with the stroke of a pen as they could.

they could withdraw the united states from the paris climate deal or suspend the syrian refugee program or accelerate the pace of deportation and what is significant is this indicates how little experience this group of schedules. the idea they can do what they want to do, which is 25 major initiatives on day one is not plausible but i think one of the things that's important to point is a lot of us, whether you o o oppose donald trump or agree with him, a lot of people don't believe he can do what he says. the purpose is to discover and suggestions that legally he has the ability to do many more of the things than we might imagine. >> then you get the foreign policy where he has even more leeway because a lot of it is not formal issues.

if he were just president of the united states say i'm not coming to the defense of europe because they aren't paying fair share or japan because they want to develop nuclear weapons. one thing to say as a candidate but as president sets off a chain reaction. >> there is a pow tore set the tone not only what the world thinks of the president but for the american will and capability they represent so if the united states american president says they will not unconditionally support the existence of nato thanks sends a message to the governments and begin to make k k calculations and hedge whether it's china or with russia and so with the words he chooses as a president, it would become

extraordinary volatile if he was able to operate in the way he has. >> melody, you've dealt with a lot of companies, private sector and ceos, do you think the confidence, skills as a ceo apply? >> so glad you asked that question. and they have off the charts skills. but there is a difs between leading even one of the largest companies in the world and leading the united states of america. when you're the ceo of a company, you don't literally have to sit down with your loyal opposition to get from an idea to conclusion and negotiate your way through that. you don't have the checks and balances in place that our founder set up to ensure the chief executive of the country doesn't run a muck. all of those things are part of

what make our republic work and operate and donald trump think has shown a fundamental lack of understanding in that. >> we have to leave it at that. thank you, both. next on gps, i'll ask goldman sachs ceo about the economy, banks and why hillary clinton didn't want to release the transcripts of those speeches she gave to his company.

big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

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donald trump rails against goldman sachs despite the fact

both his finance chair works. >> they have total control over hillary clinton at goldman sachs. hillary clinton sapeaks in secret. in a secret speech to goldman sachs, she said citizens who want to control immigration are unamerican. >> but rather than talk about goldman sachs, how about talking to its chairman and ceo and asking him all the questions. well, i sat down with lloyd blankfein recently in los angeles. we'll get to the campaign questions in a moment but first, this is someone who has a broad and deep view of the u.s. economy. i wanted his opinion on where the country stands today. lloyd blankfein, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. good to be here. >> from your vantage point, what does the economy look like? you know, how strong is growth because it seems steady by

tepid. >> it feels steady but tepid but it's steady and a lot of advantages that the u.s. economy has. the consumer deleveraged. the banking system is in excellent shape. look at energy, there is a lot of tail wind in the u.s. economy and the fact of the matter is we went through a big trama, which included a banking system trama and it took awhile to work itself through. so the answer is, it's tepid but we're definitely growing and it's established and the latter point is a more significant point. >> a lot of people say, though, there is a lot of economic anxiety. people don't feel like these numbers are right, that unemployment is down but at the same time, you know, for some reason there remains this great sense of economic anxiety, what do you attribute that to? >> there is economic anxiety but more generalized and a negative

sentiment and it's fed and feeds into the political cycle. i have trouble and planii explau look at the met tricks, you talk about unemployment down. we're virtually at full employment. you say there is under employment. that was always the case. i'm not minimizing the consequence to people who should have -- who feel their job should be higher paid and legitimately so and issues about minimum wages but at the end of the day, these problems always existed to some extent. they are less -- people should feel better than they actually do. i'm not saying they should feel gad or aren't challenges to try to surmount but the incentive is worse. if you knew the numbers and tell laported here from two threes ago and told where employment was and the price of energy and what the federal deficit was

looking like as a percentage of gdp, the strength of the consumer and a lot of met tricks and you heard this you would think the sentiment would be better. >> one thing people are sure of still is that they are suspicious. if you listen to donald trump, he varies on a lot of different things but one consistent thing he keeps hitting is the banks are crooks, big pranks are part of the big media and groups and banks chairs. >> i think you're being generous. it's out right accusations. and it's not just donald trump. you know, frankly. i don't like the fact of it and saying it to you but, you know, we're not at times people think

of us as bankers as tone deaf. believe me, i read the papers every day and hear it. look, variety of reasons. one of which is i think some of the behaviors that have been highlighted and visited are, you know, are real. and justify some negative response. and then other parts of it are just a general -- and i don't want to minimize that. let me pause for a second and say there has been bankers have played an important role in the system, generally getting rewarded for the risks they take and some of those risks were poorly managed and some of the behaviors were not, you know, were recorded as bad behavior and so there is a legitimate reaction to that. bankers are no better at predicting the future than anybody else and most of what we do are trying to get the future

right to try to make good decisions how to allocate capital and lend money to people who pay you back, trying to finance winners and not losers and guess what? you don't always get it right and you get drawn into the same mistakes and the same confusion that anybody would and everybody does in connection with the efforts to try to figure out what the future is going to be. back in a moment with lloyd blankfe blankfein, up next are the clintons too cozy with goldman sachs? is lloyd blankfein too cozy with them? i ask him. ♪

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one of the criticisms people make about the banks which is playing itself out with the wells fargo affair is banks make mistakes. they do bad things. they do things they shouldn't have done and they pay fines in a sense admitting the wrongdoing, whether or not technically they do but nobody at the top gets held accountable. goldman sachs paid fines. do you think that's a fair criticism? >> well, i would say, let me

just say comment on wells far get situation and apply it in abstract. everyone is looking to be held accountable and the answer is look the short answer is you would like to ascribe everything that goes wrong. there is bad behavior if someone cheated or fraud, there are remedies for that or people go to jail for that. sometimes people are just wrong ask they are wrong about things within their area of expertise because i may be in finance and you may be a political scientist but i have views about political science and i may be right and you may have views where the financial markets are going and you may be right. you just don't know and sometimes what is going on here is that people are trying to prescribe levels for people who were wrong and the evidence that they were simply wrong is look how much money they lost.

and at the end of the day, if you still think that their behavior was off, to be punished the way people are saying they should be punished, you have to find some kind of criminal intent. you know, to this day maybe the law shouldn't be this way. but stupidity is not a crime. sometimes it's even a defense because if you're merely wrong and you didn't get it right, it's hard to ascribe criminality. >> some of the cases and you can't comment about wells fargo but some cases where it wasn't just being wrong. >> sure, if there is bad behavior, bad behavior should be be punished. look, there was nothing -- there was not criminality but civil wrongs in goldman sachs which we paid fines with respect to which we paid fines.

and so that punishment -- but you're asking something different. >> the public sentiment seems to be and you see in the words -- >> let's have the point -- >> warren which is why the people at the top are not held accountable. >> i think people should be held accountable for what they are responsible for. if somebody has a duty and didn't fulfill the duty, that's a civil wrong. you can fine somebody. the idea going further saying there should be criminality, you have to commit a crime to be a criminal and to commit a crime you have to have some level of intent for what you're doing, so we're talking very abstractly here. so i'm not saying look, i'm a citizen, also, any time there is something, i would love to see a head roll but you have to -- can't -- but once the head starts to roll, it's no longer an abstraction. they have to really have -- there has to be a crime and i -- listen, we were investigated. the people who investigated us and others presumably, we were

very, very subject of a lot of focus. i would have to say that people looked at a lot of behaviors and if there was no -- and i'm not talking about myself in particular but the group and the outcome was there were people who -- the people in the community of people who -- in the enforcement community were not going easy. if they failed to bring a case, they felt there was no case. >> i have to ask you about the relationship of goldman sachs to the clintons. there is a front page story in the new york times alleging that there are very close connections that goldman sachs has done all kinds of things from give money to the clinton global initiative to creating a partner and the state department when hillary clinton was in office to, of course, holding fundraisers for both clintons at various points,

how do you respond to that charge? >> well, hillary clinton was a new york senator where largely was certainly a new york head quartered firm. the policy -- when bill clinton was in office, obviously, he was the president of the united states we're a larger bank, of course we engage. we engage with senator schumer. we engage with governor quecuom. in the conspiracy driven world you connect data points but i go out and i meet with editors of newspapers. i meet with republicans leaders. i -- we -- it's necessary for us

to do that. part of what we do is part of our role requires not just that we're committed to. our sense of duty requires that we explain the financial system and the ramifications of what official action would be and of course, engage political leaders. >> the implication is there is a tighter connection. >> i'll give you an example of a tighter part of the connection. in the '08 political cycle, i held a fundraiser for hillary clinton. and i could tell you throughout our firm and other firms, so did a lot of people and so did a lot of people in our firm hold fundraisers for people running against her. we had no -- you can go on and trace it but listen, if the fact is that we're identified with hillary clinton who as we say this, the election is coming up and i'm sure this will -- this conversation will survive that moment but as we sit here now,

we don't know who will win the election but it looks like the odds are favored hillary clinton. if the worst thing was was that we had a history of having engaged positively with hillary clinton, that's not going to annoy me. >> but you personally support and admire hillary clinton? >> well, i've -- i'm supportive of hillary clinton and i certainly -- yes, i do -- yes. flat out, yes. i do. that doesn't say that i agree with all her policies. i don't. and that doesn't say that i adopt everything that she's done in her political career or has suggested that she might do going forward but in terms of, you know, her intelligence, her, i think, her positioning not only in terms of her acknowledgement but what i saw demonstrated when she was a

senator when she could cross the isle and engage the people to get things done i admire that and i -- it stands out a little to me because it's that kind of, that kind of, that kind of willingness to engage and compromise but let's just stop at engage. that willingness to engage is a scarce come mouthty. >> i ask lloyd blankfein what he paid hillary clinton to make. why does he think she didn't want to release the transcripts. you'll hear the answer when i come back. with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid,

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it's been a hot top pick from early on. what did hillary clinton say to goldman sachs? the answer came out at least in part when wikileaks released transcripts of three speeches clinton gave for the wall street giant.

i talked to lloyd blankfein two weeks before the transcripts were made public but he already knew what was in them having read the speeches or heard them when she gave them. listen to what he had to say. why won't she release the transcripts? >> you have to ask her that. i would say and the answer is i don't know but me in her position, i would want to reveal. these transcripts were somebody that left office as secretary of state giving a tour they weren't given to goldman sachs and the press talks about the partners. i spoke to the clients with hundreds of people believe me, i didn't think she was saying anything untort. i don't recall specifically

anything would have jarred me and the financial markets. >> there is a poll out, i think, a couple of months ago of 60% of americans worry that hillary clinton would not be able to properly regulate the financial industry because of her ties to it. what do you say? >> you know, i don't know how to -- i don't know -- not sure how to respond to that. people say that. i would say that the financial system today is so much more tightly regulated, the regulators in the seats are so vigilant and so tough and their reputations depend on the toughness. everyone is -- it's not a place where everybody is disarmed and everybody is armed and the consequences of any kind of breach are so severe, i think, i

think we've -- i think we've handled that aspect of it. i think look at the, you know, something i -- you know, frankly, i'm scared to death of mistakes that are made in my organization and guess what? the world wants me to be scared to death of that and vigilant at the end of the day and they accomplish that purpose and have me on edge all the time. i don't live in fear that i'll do something wrong. i know i won't. of course, there are accidents can happen but i know i'll never do something wrong intentionally. i live in fear that one of my tens of thousands of employees and for other people that run big companies, hundreds of thousands of employees will do something wrong and their bad behavior will be ascribed to me not simply because i failed to super vice but in this current time, it will be ascribed as i

intended that act. that's a very, that's a very hot -- we're talking about an anxious economy. guess what? you have an anxious industry and go further, i'm sure that people are happy that it's that way. >> lloyd blankfein, pleasure to have you on. >> well thank you very much fareed, my pleasure. up next, more on wikileaks and the documents they received as a result of the hack of the e-mail account of john, clinton's campaign chair. why are they out to get hillary clinton and who is they?

how did wikileaks go from a movement and secrets and conseb traited power to one that seems singularly focused on taking down one person, the democratic

candidate in the u.s. presidential election is president putin pulling the strings? those are questions puzzling many and we'll tackle them with two guests. david smith wrote a terrific story probing those questions and julia is a columnist at foreign policy and contributing writer at politico. david, let me start with you. how do you explain the shift? i mean, you look at the origins of wikileaks and started out as something quite different. >> that's right. it's difficult to explain this was a website for whistle-blowers that was a darling of the liberal left most of usually a few years ago when this -- there was this huge dump of u.s. diplomatic cables from various embassies that really lifted the lid on american foreign policy and at that time, wikileaks was pretty praised by

many as standing up to being a american imperial list m around the world and the complex taking on the establishment and yet, here we are a few years later, and at first glance, anyway, it seems to be a tool of donald trump's presidential campaign. >> david, do you think some of this is personal and seem to have a fixation on clinton. >> it seems he has a personal grudge against her but asked in an interview about clinton versus trump he said that's like asking me to choose between gonorrhea and another. >> that's unable to draw a

distinction between what it's worth in western democracies i don't think you have a starker choice in any western democracy in awhile. julia, you think assange has a colorful back round and some does lead to russia. >> it's not a coincidence edward snowden ended up in russia while being accompanied by sarah harrison, the lawyer for wikileaks, there speculation among russia watchers that he was in someways hand delivered by asang's lieutenants. that is a theory. shortly after assange got stranded in the ecuador embassy, he was given a show on the holy kremlin owned english propaganda

channel so his ties go back a long way. >> remind us what putin dislikes so much about hillary clinton. >> oh, they don't -- he hasn't liked her going back for a very long time. back from when she was secretary of state, he didn't really like dealing with her. she was much tougher with him than other secretaries of state but more importantly, there was a rigged election of parliamentary election in russia in december of 2011 and evidence of fraud was wide spread and russians were sharing it on their smart phone -- i mean, recording it on their smart phones and uploading it online. these videos went viral and triggered mass protests and hillary clinton as secretary of state came out and said that these elections were clearly fraudulent and said russians deserve to have their voices heard and putin was furious. for him, clinton represents somebody whose there to take them out.

what he's doing essentially is what he thinks is giving her a taste of his own medicine and saying you know, you interfered in my presidential reelection in 2011, 2012, i'm going to do the same thing to you and i do want to get back to one point about the alliance between trump and assange and putin. one said this is not a real american election and use the the word rigged which has become trump and trump supporters favorite word probably like four or five times in one tweet so in someways taking on the language of trump. it's very interesting. >> david, julia, pleasure to have you guys on. next on "gps" captain, my captain, when did you turn into a robot from driverless cars to driverless boats in a moment. what powers the digital world? communication.

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the justices that i'm going to appoint will be pro-life. they will have a conservative vent. they will be protecting the second amendment. >> the final presidential debate began with secretary clinton and mr. trump explaining their opposing views on the supreme court. half of the current supreme court justices are over the age of 68. which means that it could fall upon the next president to fill multiple open seats. it brings me to my question who was the only full term president of the united states not to appoint a single supreme court justice? george washington, grover cleveland, ulysses grant or jimmy carter? stay tuned and we'll give you the answer. the november or december issue of foreign affairs is terrific and not just saying that because i have an essay in it. there is an interesting set of

articles on the rise of populism, one of them being mine. they look at trump, latin america and europe but there are also excellent pieces on turkey and egypt and there is one on europe that you will like. you'll get a big bang for the buck and for the last look. >> automated control engaging. >> self-driving car prototypes hit the roads in the united states but we may soon see more unusual driverless vehicles. meet the row boat a cleaver name for a robotic boat. the self-driving vessels, a $27 million project by the amsterdam institute solutions are expected to be tested in the canals of amsterdam next year. each row boat can be used for transporting goods or people, will be powered by renewable energy and will be able to scan the scene around them to minimize the risk of collision. we have talked a lot on this

show about the potential impact self-driving cars could have on the jobs of millions of americans who drive for a living. self-driving boat technology will surely elicit a similar debate. after all, 90% of world trade makes use of maritime transport and more than 11.2 million sea farers operate. the scientists behind the row boat said much like the driverless car, one of the projects' objectives is to improve boat safety. sounds like progress to me, don't put row boats in place in ve venace. the answer is d, jimmy carter did not appoint a single supreme court justice and a close second

with eight appointments. judge garland nominated 221 days ago would be the third of barack obama's appointments to the court if the senate were to ever confirm him. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you neck week. hey, i'm brian stalter and time for reliable sources. special welcome to the viewers here in the united states and around the world on cnn international. we have just 16 days to go until the american election day so today we're asking are journalists writing trump's campaign obituary too premature. the toll it's taking on viewers and reporters. we'll talk about it all with a psychiatrist and something special, a new way to examine trust in media. we can be into this book group