the current chancellor is serving her 11 years. thanks for all of you for being apart of my program this week, i will see you next week. it is time for reliable sources. how the news gets made and a special welcome o our viewers here in the u.s. and all around the world on cnn international. this hour, hateful groups by donald trump and online opinions and moving offline is seen here. what is the proper way for the press to cover this. i will talk about it with three experts. did you hear about the new website of a 10 x spike of donations this month. they are crediting trump and asking what they are doing with their money. and talking about the future of the news wire. first, lets pause, seriously. the national news media reported

that 100 miles an hour non stop during this campaign year. the coverage was saturated overwhelming and exhausting. i remember cnn's john berman tells me on the morning of the election day, brian, sleep now because you will never know what's going to happen after the election. i should have slept. the news cycle covering all things trump. >> another day and tirade from donald trump. >> here is the trump's tweet. lets start with these twitter comments from president-elect trump. >> donald trump is already tweeting. >> donald trump spent his early morning on a twitter rant. >> his tweets of a tom cruise's tweets. you kind of cannot look away. >> now the president-elect trump is surely going to be a story but is he always the story.

is there too much focuses on donald trump demands and do his inflammatory tweets serve practice? here to discuss it more of our three a-list guests. charles cook of the editor of national review online. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> walter, do we over react every tweet or flutter from donald trump, i think sometimes i do. >> maybe so, look, i think we should stop. if donald trump tweets that's news worthy and at a certain point, we'll have a team in place. he's a showman in that. he came out of reality tv world. he knows how to make himself the star of the reality show. you know i think sometimes we are moving our hands a little

bit too much. we'll have a lot of times once he gets in office to start covering his policies. >> what do you think, you see this story of day in and day out of intense coverage, i don't remember it being quite like this with president-elect obama. >> remember we were in a financial crisis when obama coming in. i remember it was an intense time. i think we do need to do a better job covering trump's policies. we made a mistake as an industry. people tend to think of trump as -- try to take him seriously but not literally. what we have seen in the election is you need to take him literally. he's nominated for a major position that you would expected if you listen to what he said and if you had thought you meant

what he said. i think there is something important here that we'll have to do a better job. and believe the trump means what he says and he will do what he says. until we do that, we keep on get led around by tweets. >> he did change some of his positions this week and moderate. and we have seen some of hi his -- what do you make of trump's visit this week going to the new york times and having the heads five of the networks and anchors coming over to trump tower on monday. what do we make of trump venting and complaining to the media even after he won. >> it is not surprisingly. he changed some of his position to start with and he put forward more than one position on almost every topic and made himself into something of a rocshark's

test. i am glad he's speaking to the media. i cannot say i am pleased that he dressed down the media. >> in the same day, he says the new york times is failing and it was the jewel and the crown of america's journalism. >> at the end of the meeting, he was complimenting the new york times. what did you make of that? was the tv media wrong and new york times insisting on an on-record interview. >> media he himself cares about and consumes. the new york times is another. he talked in his discussions about how he reads them. he's always tweeting the terrible failing new york times is covering him terribly. he's reading their coverage and

being wounded by it. i do not want to credit trump with changing positions. he has in interviews trying to make himself looking sympathetic and he went after new york times and he tried to soften that po i position. we have not seen him releasing new policy papers. i want to be careful. he says a lot of different things in interviews. overall, the thrust of his policy is consistent. until he actually changes them, i don't want to give him credit to have them changed. >> what do you recommend of the current cnn and time warner. we are talking about the president-elect trump who says he's going to block the time warner/at&t deal. >> that's irrelevant for cnn to cover it. i certainly did not look at all the corporate time warner types of things involved. i know no journalists or cnn

would do that. cnn has a pretty easy road to hold. >> keep it trastraight and repo what's happening. >> even when president-elect trump complains about cnn and news coverage. it is not your job to get it under your skin. the media's landscape has changed so enormously from the days and even in the 1990s where you have, there is no one thing as the media, you have everything from bright bar to twitter accounts and twitter feeds of different people. it is not as trust worthy. if i were at cnn -- i would say there is a role for somebody you can really trust who's trying to get it right because in the days where you don't know where things are coming from on the internet. you want top say, well, here is a few things i trust.

>> i love what you just said "trying to get it right." charles, this conversation of fake news in the past couple of months and these websites trying to get it wrong and try to trick people and hoaxes. is this the year of fake news, do you think news is doing enough to combat this? >> this is one of the downsides of the internet. if the problem of the world or communication is that there is too many gate keepers. if you were not on the right side of people in country who ran vast corporations, the problem is now there is no gate keepers. anybody can set up a website and cause a stir and if the right people link to it and there is a lot of right people these days, it is going to be a story. the one thing the press can do and stop playing in those people's hands is slow down a little bit.

donald trump is going to need a lot of scrutiny. national review has given him a great deal of scrutiny and we'll continue to. it is very difficult when every single tweet he puts out or statement he makes is scrutinized. i think that cnn and fox news corporate types are watching, do slow down. a lot of people i know on the riel right who likes trump, that's the point where they turn to alternative sources. >> do these sites, do they have a poisoning effect on our conversations? >> they're not helping. >> um, i am not persuaded. the fake news trend is a bad one and particularly a facebook problem, you are seeing tremendous shares and engagement around this content of this pope francis verses donald trump. even though that did not happen. i am not persuaded that this is changing minds in a big way. as much as i do think it is an

issue and as much as i do want to see it solved, it is becoming a convenient excuse for what has happened and how donald trump gets elected. >> that's in the role to play in a broader conversation. >> just choose not to believe anything. walter, what do you think? >> if you can start from a clean slate, you got to know where something comes from. people have to take accountability for their own information they put out and you would end the anonymity that come ws ts with the package of network. >> so you think that would help at least partly to resolve, yeah, that would not solve it. >> yeah, you would kind of know there is a teenager telling you

that the pope endorsed donald trump as opposed to a real source of information. people of all the network -- if there is one role we can play in the good, old fashion media. at least we try hard to get it right. people say well, biasse biassebiassed biassed -- their bias creeps in. every morning whether you know trying hard to get it right or wrong, we are the ones who are trying hard to get it right. >> what we do of this confusing internet information and age. we'll take a quick break here. coming up after the break, hate and harassment around the u.s., journalism are receiving racist messages and we saw this video last week in washington. we are thinking of the proper way to cover this right after this break. as close as two fries trying to annihilate each other can be. ahh, interception!

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bill assumed his mayo was the best choice. assume nothing. unlike hellmann's, kraft real mayo spreads on smoother and still has no artificial flavors. no wonder the holidays taste so good. welcome back, many americans are feeling hopeful of donald trump's polling. >> mabut, many others are feeli uneasy and fearful. why? >> part of it is of his election. i think we all see it on facebook and twitter. we see it out in real life and we remember this sporadic act of violence at trump's rally this year and there is a hate mail

and there is a lot attention being given to the shadow of the internet and organization of white and premise groups. >> it is more visible now. in atlantic, this is our normal. yes, as journalists kcover, is t becoming more normal. >> lets talk about this. walter isaaccerson. >> thank you all for sticking around. have you talked to your reporters how to cover the more racist elements of the a lot right? >> i have. this is tricky. so what i want to say that there is a real uptake and hate that we see.

>> and this is people having their addresses published online and you get friends and colleagues photoshopped on folks going into an oven in digital imagery. it is a skcary thing to cover because folks make it of a target. >> by covering the racist element of the movement, it creates a target. >> as you say, the trick in covering this is one, not normalize it but also to not make it overly broad. the video tape that the atlantic caught is chilling. it is also is not something that you should be attached to all trump supporters or donald trump's. >> charles, i could make the case that we should ignore, completely ignore white premise

event. am i wrong? >> there is a case for that. it has been difficult for writers. we had a national review as well and they have been well documented there. what worries me is not so much of this is normalize, i don't think americans are going to normalize those no photoshopped -- and i do worry that with signal boosting. >> signal boosting, tell me more about that. >> of the amount of attention that's given to some of these people is well beyond on what they deserve not morally but proportionally. the trump campaign has broad out some of the worse instincts of the united states. and almost certainly, it has been worse before this. >> you go back to 50 wreyears, is worse. they do bought the trend. i would not want that to be a surface of interest in this

people which would evangelize for them. >> walter, where do you come down on this? >> you know i think there cooke is right. these people have always been with us. i don't think it is just the media who are giving this em -- >> i covered david duke when he lived in a trailer park when he was a nobody. now, a person like him or a person like these groups, yes, they get magnified by the media but they get magnified simply by the feedback that somehow or another they can post something and assume their 400,000 facebook shares or tweets. >> in some ways of these people, they can see a lot bigger and numerous and they actually are.

>> again, that gets one of the down sides of the upside of the internet. >> you don't want to have gate keepers keeping people from saying what they want. you have a technology and media that allowed anybody to say the most hateful things and not be held accountable for it and have their messages amplified. i think one of the most devastating things about this election is the amount of hatred and just despiccable against blacks and women and that was unleashed. as a society, we should take a pause for a moment and realize that the basic goodness that we should try to exhibit and how we lost a bit of that this year. >> all right, i agree with that. i like how optimistic that sounds. as i am wondering what you are telling your staff, the people who are getting these

anti-semantic and racist, what advise do you give them. tell us of the reality. >> look, there are scary stuff going around and to the exte extent -- and as charles said it is not by any means. you try to keep doing your job and do a good job and try fottot let it affect you and try to understand what's causing it but not allow it to color your reporting. it is important that we are able to create the linear of it. one reason that coverage is hardhar harder this year is these things are shifting quickly.

so i think one thing that's happening right now is you have a pretty i mmature movement and its boundary is not understood or of itself. we try to figure out what to cover or not to cover. it is a continuous efforts of what's important or not important and how do we know, given how much has been a surprise in the past year, too. >> charles, is that something you are wrestling with online? >> sure. >> the big boys can take care of themselves. the barriers to entry now is just very low. it does not take a great deal of effort to send somebody a message. what twitter is a means for anyone in the whole world can send a message which you will see. it did not exist 20 years ago. >> you have to write a letter

and you have to put it in an envelope back then and it will be read by a secretary. >> in that regard, it is of our changing world. i agree with what is being said of the deal. and i agree with stephen bannon. it is a disgrace he's in a position of where he is. the all-right is largely small. it is a fringe movement and a fringe group. i hope we don't give false impressions to those who are curious about it. >> on that note, charles, and walter, thank you very much. >> we are just getting started here. something you have to see. two trump biographers of what they learn from the election so far. we'll be right back.

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. welcome back, to reliable sources. i will say it again and i will say it now, newsroom had a lot to learn. they did not expect that trump would win. this includes the journalists studying him up closely of his biographers. so should clear eye examination of who trump is and how he may lead the nation. so for answers, we have asked to trump fog biographers to shed some lieghts. joining me now "the truth about trump." >> is this a fuel employment act for trump's biographers? >> we'll be busy for four years. people want to know what you

learned while spending time with him, what are you learned now? >> optimistic quality is evident and i think the fact that he's willing to push everything to an extreme, he has moved the way we talk to each other and the way we do politics further down into the gutter than we have ever seen it before. now, he's in the process of trying to raise himself up but we are all muddy now. we have been down there in the gutter with him. to expect him to clean this all up, i think it is a little extreme. i don't think he will be able to do it. >> do you sense that trump is trying? >> i think trump is being trump. the thing that's true about him is that he's been a character and himself. one of things of forward is he's comfortable in his own skin and he has his own appetite and

northern star. at the end of the day, he will surround himself of whatever and whoever he wants and he won't care about the consequences. >> during the campaign, there were talks about when we'll see a pivot. is this a trump pivot. there were times where we use a te telaprompter more. >> a lot of ways he's a very personable frat boy and his appetites were food and deals and women and celebrities and attention and he's constantly feeding these things. the animating force in donald is this self absorption with himself and the rebelling he does on his day-to-day. >> before the election, both of you told political magazine that you did not think he will win. couple of weeks now, do you have

a sense of what you believe it was? >> well, i do think starting years ago, he understood that there were certain, sort of dark corners of the american physche that he could provoke. the birther movement was part of that and they're discomfort with a woman running for president or maybe being president. these are all things that he understood in the public and exploited them. >> you say that, where would you get that from, we need more research. >> e wiwe do. he said this to me in 2014 that he understood these types of issues with what he calls the hard land of america. he actually lost a popular vote by a substantial number and so

it is in cocumbent on us. when we don't know where they stand and even now he's gaining in popularity but still lacks behind barack obama at the same point in transition. >> you are saying don't over learn the lessons of the election because it is a divided country. >> well, he's pretty unique. >> i think there is a lot you can -- i think it is easy to talk about what is unique about donald. >> you have to call him mr. trump. >> i am sorry, my friend, president-elect trump, i think it came out in the bernie campaign as well. the bernie sanders campaign and donald trump campaign, there is clearly a large constituents of people who are hurting economically and who don't feel america's institution whether the media or business institutions have served them well. that he want someone to shake it up. >> isince you are both writers,

do you think journalists are making the same mistakes. every time he shakes it up whether to send a tweet or surprising announcement of a news adviser, a journalest reacting or maybe over react saying he's doing something out of bounds, that's what he wants to do. >> he's mr. ed and he will say anything in the moment and he will put things on the table for the media that's outrageous or inflammatory or curious. >> irresistible. >> michael, lets put you in charge. you are running the biggest news outlets in the world, what story would you assign by trump. >> i am going to ask people to keep a grid of this guy of what

are promises he made and follow him every single day, what did he do today to deliver a call job or manufacturing jobs. who are the regions that are put in charge of our government and acting on his behalf and on america's behalf. if it is people that we have trouble with, that's where the rubber is going to hit the road and we'll have to really watch out for the folks who are doing the thinking for him. >> a lot of work for reporters to do. >> great to see you tim and michael. >> great the see you brian. >> up next, meeting the new executive editor of the associate press, salley busby, join me after the break. our mission is to produce programs and online content

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news organizations do not get much bigger than the associated press. that's why cakathleen carol has been so influence reasonable in the journalism world. she's stepping down. during her leadership as an executi executive, now, filling carol's shoes is salley busby, an insider since 1998. she has served as a reporter and

washington bureau. >> congratulations. >> thanks so much. >> what is the lesson of this month of this shocking election results and the first couple of weeks of a president-elect trump administration. >> i think it is very important for news organizations to cover the world as the world exists. be flexible and nimble and be on top of what actually happens. on election night, many people were surprised but we were able to look at the facts and the data and the vote count as it was coming in and be really aggressive and speedy about calling the race and pivoting to the person who actually won the election. it is very important for news organizations to not think that they know exactly better than the voters and better than the public and really be responsive to what is actually happening in the country. >> do you think you will rely on polls a little bit less in the future as a result of the polls

not getting it right this time. >> that's the key question of the campaign season. we try hard to use polls as one very critical data point in campaign coverage but not make the horse race and the polls the entire focus of our campaign coverage. we did issue coverage this campaign season and we did accountable reporting and fact checks and we tried to talk to voters. but, i think it is fair to say that everyone is redoubling and retripling their efforts to go beyond pollings in future elections. there is no question about that. >> donald trump met with the new york times and talked about it in the early hour. are you interested in sitting down with him? >> absolutely. we are completely interested in sitting down with the president-elect trump. he has been fairly outreaching towards the press.

we have concerns about access and there is questions about that. we are sort of taking a one step of a time approach trying to sort of make the campaign conditions to some of the expectations around access and trying to get as much information from him as we can. he does talk to reporters. it is not, you know, during the course of the campaign. >> he loves reporters. he reads it all the time. >> he absolutely does. >> it is a throw back to a past skren realizati generation where he's a little less control and we'll do outreach and talk to reporters. that's one thing is a positive. we have a lot of concerns about just sort of the normal access that the public has used to in terms of seeing the president. i think there is a fundamental misunderstanding. this is not a perk that journalists or organizations are trying to get. this is actually sort of the eyes of the public so that if

there is a national crisis, people know the public and the public knows where the president is at any given time and knows what's going on. >> you guys have to earn access and earn his respect. you are saying, absolutely not, this is not a privilege and not a perk of the job. i try to keep it as not something as a privilege o f the press. this is accountability of the public. does the american public and the global public get to know where the president is and what is happening in the president's daily work life, who he or she is talking to. >> those are the core foundational issues that access is about and sort of putting it into reporters being offended is a wrong way to think about it. i think, actually. >> how optimistic or pessimistic are you of covering a trump administration. we heard comments all year that this is now a post truth america. a post fact world.

>> do you agree? >> the associated press and myself do not agree this is a post-factual world, i do no think that's a case at all. you see that when people make important decision in their lives. >> sounds like wish full thinking to me, salley. a lot of people seemed to checked out of liberalism especially conservatives. >> now, there is no question that people are going to sort of news organizations and voices that in some ways reenforce what their believes are. i mean, we did not see that much down take in information and people interested in news and i think what this was about more was the voice that a lot of journalism are being told in seems to people who are out of touch with the reality that they face and i do think that's something that news organization needs to work on.

i do not think that we believe in a post-factual world. you are starting on january 1st, what's your top priority when you take over? >> well, the new administration in the u.s. does actually provide a pretty good opportunity for the ap to do strong accountability journalism but also to be very fair and even handed and objective towards the new president. i think that's going to be a very high priority. >> you used to cover the middle east, do you expect an authorian public. >> i think the american public is going to be watching closely and there is no indication that we'll look at the -- >> your time in kcairo and appl it to washington. >> you have to be accountable

and you have to talk to the public and see what's on the mind of society. if egypt, where people were upset of the authority, what was their mind sets? all of those lessons are politicabl applicable. >> i think it will be a fascinating presidency to cover. >> salley, thank you very much. >> up next, trump's victory is giving a shot in the arm to non-profit news organizations. hear how they'll be spending the money right after this. four to t-mobile, your faf get unlimited everything, and we'll give you $800. that's right! $800 to spend anywhere you want. plus, all season long, get awesome deals on smartphones, tablets, and accessories. hurry in to t-mobile and get your holidays on us.

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welcome back to "reliable sources." on this program, we're all about the media. let me take you behind the scenes with a look at the business side and perhaps unexpected benefit of donald trump's election. some newsrooms are seeing a huge spike in donations and subscriptions. liberal magazines like "the nation" along with nonpartisan

outlets like "repulica," say they are benefiting from, this at least temporarily as they try to hold trump accountable. i think it's a really interesting thing. it speaks to the idea that the journalists are the fourth of state, a check and balance for government, especially at a time when the white house and congress will be controlled by the republicans. joining me to discuss are two of the beneficiaries of this trend, the president of "republica" and editor of "the nation." welcome to you both. thank you for being here. richard, tell me about what happened on election night on your website. >> almost immediately, we saw almost as soon as the election results were clear, we saw donations go up about ten-fold. they were running ten times the normal level. on thursday of that week, that was a very successful appeal and

then on sunday night, john oliver suggested, among other things, that people could give money to us. >> and that must have broken your servers. i heard when john oliver mentions something, the crowd goes wild. >> yes. exactly. so by monday morning, we were getting four gives a minute. so last year, in the full year, we got $500,000 in small gifts. in the two weeks after the election, we got more than $600,000 from more than 10,000 people. >> how much of that was thanks to john oliver? >> you know, it's very hard to unspool it but i would say certainly most. >> interesting. so a big surge in donations. we'll talk about how you are going to spend the money. but katrina, let me ask you about subscriptions. that's your main source of revenue for "the nation". >> immediately after donald trump was elected we saw our donations go up 560% in the last two weeks, it's about 666.

on the donor front, we've received $80,000 from small donors. we will have at the end of the year over 16,000 small donors who gave $5 to $99 and that's a very important thing for us. 240% increase on our website in the last week. i think there's a hunger, brian, for deep, fearless journalism. >> what kind of journalism can we empower in this trump presidency age? >> some of the things we're thinking about doing and we have already started reporting to hate crimes in the alt-right because this is clearly something that people need to better understand and i think a better term than alt-right is white supremacy. we need to call it what it is. but that's important. trade is going to be a much more

important subject in the next few years than it has been. immigration is a subject on which we need more light and perhaps a little bit less heat. and we're going to try to move on that. and then there are a lot of people to talk about as we restaff the government. that's appropriate. it's important to know who these people are and what they stand for. >> i hope that this -- the trump election will remind people of the importance of watch dog accountability. at "the nation," we're going to strengthen our investigative reporting, look at trump's crony capitalism and look at white supremacist, look at those who are coming in and we're not going to normalize. we're going to scrutinize and lay out ideas to move forward because that's also part of "the nation." i think people come to us because we're both a media entity and also a community. how do we move forward in this country? how do we rebuild a progressive

movement? how do we rebuild a free press that will be able to sustain what looks like not only donald trump but billionaires in this country taking on the free press and misunderstanding the role of a free press as a check on excessive corporate, political power across the political spectrum. i think it's a time for deep, fearless reporting, a time to find writers who have a spine and onwards. >> katrina, thank you for being here. richard, good to see you. >> thank you so much. >> it's important to talk about donations and subscriptions. our news diet is only as good as what we pay for. we'll be right back with more "reliable sources" after this break. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy. whfight back fastts, with tums smoothies.

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that's all for this televised edition of "reliable sources." we are all better off with a balanced news diet. we're all better off with the

news sources we trust. that's what creates a better, healthier news environment. our media coverage keeps going online. cnnmoney.com. sign up for our newsletter and i'll see you back here next week. after castro, the world reacts to the death of the famed dictator with many wondering what's next for cuba and america under a president trump. senator marco rubio will be here in minutes. plus, cabinet campaign. trump allies go public to stop him from picking mitt romney for secretary of state. >> romney does represent a very different viewpoint. i'm not sure whose secretary of state he will be. >> will the threat of a conservative backlash influence the president-elect or will a dark horse become america's top diplomat? top sen