nonexistent fact. >> how do you know it wasn't martians? >> frank just made an important point that's playing out in realtime. i didn't mean to interrupt you. trump just tweeted -- he knows he's wrong about millions. he knows he's wrong. >> how do you know? >> because he's a very intelligent guy. it's a great distraction. he now doesn't want us talking about the fact he's so wrong about the millions. so he's attacking cnn. he just put out a tweet saying, flag burning should have a big penalty. you should not be able to burn the american flag. if you do, there should be consequences, perhaps loss of citizenship or a year in jail. frank says no. now, clearly he could not have consulted with anyone about the law before he tweeted this. he tweeted earlier cnn stinks, which means he's paying attention. thank you. and he's using it as a distraction. >> i hope he's listening now.

if he is, il would say mr. president-elect, understand this, when you become president of the united states, words matter. they have a completely different meaning. they drive people all around the world. you trash journalists in america, you hurt journalists and the free press in russia or venezuela or other places. you trash muslims who are terrorists, you send a signal around the globe. the thing that's so interesting here and that's going to be such a change is donald trump plays from a completely different set of rules. he shoots from the hip. when a crisis happens, it's usually the media that leap and people in power and officials who say, hold on, we got to check on everything and make sure we are actually correct and speaking precisely. we've got just the opposite happening here. we've got a president-elect who's shooting from the lip and it's the media saying what do we do to catch up and prof this is right or not. it's an education troxtraordina. >> panel, thank you very much pip suspect we'll have time to

talk about this through the coming months. thank you. we have some breaking news we want to get to right now. we're following a lot, including this deadly plane crash. let's get right to it. good morning to you. welcome to your "new day." 75 people have been killed. there was a charter plane carrying a brazilian soccer team. the true miracle here is that there are survivors. we'll have a live report in minutes. searching for a motive in that ohio state university attack. what was he motivated by? we have cnn's rosa flores live if columbus, ohio. what have you learned? >> reporter: good morning. one of the big questions this morning is why. law enforcement not ruling out terrorism just yet, but they say

they don't have a motive today for us. one of the biggest clues, perhaps, is from a post to facebook around the time of the attack. ohio state university police naming student abdul razak ali artan as the attacker. a u.s. official telling cnn artan was a legal permanent resident originally from somalia who came to the u.s. via pakistan. authorities now look into posts he made on his facebook page, expressing grievances about crimes against muslims, posted moments before the attack, saying, quote, i'm sick and tired of seeing my fellow muslim brothers and sisters being killed and tortured, and uh can't take it anymore. back in august, osu's campus newspaper quoted artan in a profile, saying he was scared to

pray in the open as a muslim. investigators are looking into possible motives for the attack and say they cannot rule out terrorism. >> we're always aware that's a potential. we're going to continue to look at that. >> reporter: police say just before 10:00 a.m. monday morning, artan deliberately jumped a curb, ramming a car into a group of pedestrians. >> he exits the vehicle and used a butcher knife to start cutting pedestrians. >> reporter: eyewitnesses desperately calling 911. >> a guy ran a car through a crowd of students. he did it purposely. >> i'm at ohio state right outside. a guy crashed his car into a bunch of people. >> reporter: a minute into the attack, osu police officer alan horujko arrived on the scene, confronting a knife-wielding artan, shooting him three times, killing him. >> the officer engaged the suspect and fired shots and used deadly force to stop the threat. >> reporter: 11 people wounded in the attack, all are expected to survive. as the attack unfolded, students

barricaded doorways to avoid becoming a victim. the campus on lock dayne for an hour and a half. >> ohio state will be stronger, having come through this. >> reporter: now, classes resume thank you very much, rosa. joining us now, logan chapman, who ended up feet away from the attacker. we also have dr. andrew thomas from the osu medical center. thank you very much for being with us. logan, i want to start with you. you were standing outside when you saw this car plow into a group of pedestrians. then what happened? >> well, we were all outside for the fire alarm going off. the car plowed through the back of students. initially, everyone thought it was an accident because the engine was still running, like the gas pedal had stuck, like the car got out of control. everyone was making sure that the people who were hit were

okay and that the driver was okay. as soon as everything had settled down, he got out of the car and started slashing people closest to the car with a knife. >> and you were there at that point because you had run over to see if you could help and make sure people were okay. as i understand it, you were standing at driver's side towards the front headlight of the car when he got out of the car. tell us what that moment was like. was he saying anything when he had the knife in his hand and was attacking people? >> i don't think he said anything. he might have yelled, but if he did, it was lost if all of the commotion. i don't remember him saying anything at all. >> so what happened when you figured out that, no, this wasn't just an ordinary car accident of some kind? >> it took a while to realize that he had a knife and it wasn't just a regular car accident. once everyone realized that, everyone scattered. i personally ran through the building to the other street

across the block. i lost sight of him at that point. >> dr. thomas, tell us about what was happening at the hospital when these injuries started coming in and what you saw. >> good morning. thank you. this is something that we train for, both here at the ohio state university medical center as well as with our colleagues around the city. columbus is a major metropolitan area of over a million people. we have a local trauma service that coordinates activities like this. we work with our local ems and first responders. multiple times per year on drills. so this was something that felt real to us, obviously. it was not a drill, but at the same time, our folks were coordinated, knew what to do. we had within minutes trauma surgeons arrive in the emergency department. we had nurse, respiratory therapists, pharmacist, all ready for patients to arrive. >> i want to just read what we think the latest is with the victims. six victims with car-related injuries, four victims with

stabbing-related injuries, one with laceration. at least two went through surgeon general. can you tell us how those that are at your hospital are doing? >> sure. everyone's doing well. at this point we see no reason to be concerned about life-threatening injuries. there are still, as far as my information, four individuals in the hospital, two at wexner medical center and two others at another local hospital. we were able yesterday to go visit some of those individuals. unfortunately, missed some that were treated and released from the emergency department. met with them, met with their families, if their families were available, and we have a great student counseling service here that does outreach to students, both that were injured, but obviously there were dozens, if not hundreds of other students that were r involved, either at the scene or being barricaded in classrooms. there will be a big outreach to both the students, staff, and faculty community for counseling, therapy, anything that's needed to help people

respond to this. we're very resilient here. it's a city within a city with over 50,000 students. tens of thousands of staff and faculty. we'll get through this. >> of course you will, doctor. we just don't know how long the repercussion of something like this, witnessing it and experiencing it. logan, we've seen some pictures and video of kids having to barricade their classrooms, being terrified and just praying that the attacker didn't come in. when you went and hid, then what did you see? >> i didn't get to see a whole bunch once i got inside. they had already taken down the knifeman in the car. so everyone was inside being safe. i didn't get to see anything in the classroom i was in. i was close to the initial incident. >> yeah, no. i guess i mean inside, what was the reaction of students who were scared and trying to hide?

>> everyone was on edge. no one was freaking out in the area i was. everyone figured it was under control because we were near the biggest section of policemen on campus at that point. everyone close to me felt safe more or less. >> and logan, i read that you have a regret that you weren't able to tackle the attacker and to stop him. i just hope that you will be able to get past that because everyone understands that you did the best you could, as did everyone in that situation. we're so grateful for the officer who showed up so quickly and was able to take him out. >> yeah. >> doctor -- >> there's no doubt he's the true hero in this situation. >> absolutely. dr. thomas, logan chapman, thank you very much for being here. best of luck to you guys. >> thank you. >> thank yo >> lest get to chris. >> that kid's job was to survive. the only person responsible for what happened there is the boy who did it. breaking news, 75 people

killed after this charter plane crashed going from bolivia to colombia. inside, a brazilian soccer team as well as traveling media and of course the staff and crew. the amazing part of this is that there are survivors. let's get the very latest from cnn's shasta darlington live in rio de janeiro. this is going to be hard news there. this team had just ascended to national stardom. >> reporter: that's right, chris. this really is being treated like a national tragedy. as you said, there is the silver lining. there are now six survivors. just a few minutes ago, we thought it was only five. as rescue workers pulled aside the fuselage, they found a sixth person who survived. this has been difficult work. very rainy conditions. of course, the crash occurred just outside of medellin, colombia, right around 1:00 a.m. there are five survivors in the hospital. they've just found a sixth.

we know two of them are from the chapecoense brazilian soccer team. one of them is a crew member. there are hundreds of people already gathering at the stadium, just waiting for details about who the survivors were and who didn't make it. really, tough story in this soccer crazy country. we know that the plane took off from bolivia as the team was headed -- this was the final leg of their journey, headed to this south american tournament. they were ecstatic right before they took off. they were celebrating the fact they had climbed up, clawed their way up to the top tier r in brazil's football league, and now they were going to represent their home team at this very important tournament, chris and alisyn. >> oh, my gosh, shasta. just seeing the video of them at the airport obviously before all of this, it's really striking and to know that there are survivors. please keep us updated on that story. all right. turning now to the white house

transition. president-elect donald trump will meet tonight with mitt romney, who is still reportedly on the short list for secretary of state. mr. trump confirming moments ago his cabinet pick for health and human services, a vocal critic of obamacare. sarah murray is live in washington. what have you learned? >> reporter: good morning. well, the trump transition effort is make a few staffing announcements official today, saying donald trump will choose tom price, the congressman, to be the secretary for health and human service. and also he's going to choose seema verma, a health care policy ceo, to be the new administrator for the centers for medicare and medicaid services. now, even though he's moving forward with some of these staff announcements, other ones seem to be in a trickier position, especially what to do about secretary of state. donald trump is barrelling ahead with another round of cabinet picks today. sources say he's slated to name georgia congressman tom price, a

fierce critic of obamacare, to lead the department of health and human services. >> the most important thing that the american people understand and appreciate is that it's destructive to their health care. >> reporter: and after this teaser from vice president-elect mike pence monday evening -- >> a number of very important announcements tomorrow. >> reporter: more announcements could be in the pipeline today. but on one of the thornest issues, who will fill the coveted position of secretary of state, it appears trump is still pondering his options. the president-elect is slated to dine with mitt romney tonight, a sign he's still in the running for the job, in spite of the protest of some of trump's top aides. >> the number of people who feel betrayed to think that a governor romney would get the most prominent cabinet post after he went so far out of his way to hurt donald trump. >> reporter: adding to the intrigue, trump plans to sit down with another candidate for the role of the nation's top diplomat today, senate foreign relations committee chairman bob corker. after meeting with david petraeus on monday, trump tweeted he was very impressed. >> very good conversation. we'll see where it goes from

here. >> reporter: but petraeus, who's in the running for a variety of national security and defense slots, could be a problematic pick. while trump continually attacked hillary clinton on the campaign trail for her handling of classified information -- >> she deleted the e-mails. she has to go to jail. >> reporter: petraeus comes with his own baggage. he stepped down in 2012 as cia director amid fallout from an extramarital affair and was convicted of a misdemeanor for sharing classified information with his mistress. he's currently on probation in that case. this morning it appears donald trump is awake and tweeting, although not about anything that has to do with the cabinet positions he has to fill. i want to draw your attention to one of his tweets this morning, saying nobody should be allowed to burn the american flag. if they do, there must be consequences, perhaps loss of citizenship or a year in jail. now, even though many people, of

course, disagree with anything to desecrate the american flag, this is a right that's protected under the first amendment, and it's a right the supreme court in the united states has upheld on multiple occasions. back to you guys. >> 1969, that's when the law changed, making flag burning speech. sarah murray, thank you very much. so what is the future of the aca, obamacare, the affordable care act? is mitt romney really a candidate for secretary of state? we're going to get you some insight from a member of the trump transition team next.

all right. so the president-elect just tweeted that burning the flag should be a crime. there have been comments that millions voted illegally, and there are also some real questions about what's the future of your health care and who's going to be the main diplomat for the united states of america. let's discuss them all with transition communications director jason miller. good to see you. >> good morning. >> let's try and get the balance right this morning. can we agree that there's

constitutional law that burning the flag, as much as we might hate it, is defended first amendment speech? >> chris, flag burning is completely ridiculous. i think you know that. i think the vast majority of americans would agree. >> but legal. >> chris, it's completely ridiculous. i don't think there's a big universe of people out there who support flag burning. it's terrible and despicable, but the big news, chris, this morning, you saw this, i know we're going to get to it, dr. tom price to run hhs and seema verma. a big impact on repealing obamacare. >> i want to talk about those. when the president-elect says something, when the president of the united states saying something, we got to listen. when he says something should be illegal that's a protected constitutional right, i'm not saying i like t but that's a big part of the first amendment in this country. a frustrating, maddening part of it is that you have to respect people's ability to say what you

don't like to hear. the president just said burning the flag should be illegal. it is a protected constitutional right. can we agree on that? >> no, we completely disagree. >> you don't think the constitution has been defended by the supreme court in 1969 as validating burning the flag as free speech? >> chris, absolutely should be illegal, but again, we know why we're this morning. we're going to talk about the transition team, about what this government is going to do for the american people. i think most americans would agree with me that nag burning should be illegal. it's completely despicable. >> but it is constitutional. you show that. the president should know that. >> it should be illegal, chris. >> all right. i don't want to run in circles either, but these things matter, jason. they just do. when things have been vetted by the supreme court, you have to respect that. you have to respect that. should it be illegal? that's a political question. but if you pass a law that

contradicts a law of the land, that's seen as constitutional. i hold the flag sacred as well. doesn't mean someone doesn't have the right it burn it. i'm saying what's legal may not be likable. >> chris, i very much respect your opinion. i think we see -- >> it's not an opinion. it's the law. 1969. >> you're not actually diving in and advocating and defending flag burning. >> you have to defend what is legal in this country under the constitution. just because i don't like it doesn't mean that it's not legal, it's not right for somebody. what do you want this country to be, only what you like? only what president-elect trump likes? that's what's now okay behavior in america? bad day for a lot of people. >> flag burning should be illegal. end of story. lest talk about how we're going to repeal and replace obamacare and these fantastic picks. >> let's talk about that. tom price has not spoken about most important element of any change that you make. repealing is easy. that's just a sign on a piece of paper. then you have to respect the validity of the contracts, which

last about a year be. it's the mandate. what are you going to do about the mandate? just to remind everybody at home, the mandate is insisting that everyone get into the pool and get health care. the young and the healthy as well as the old and infirm. will you keep the mandate? >> i think the mandate is a massive problem. i think that when dr. price gets in there and starts going at it, working with the rest of the team, we'll hear clear live. >> so you don't know right now whether or not you'll keep the mandate? every analyst agrees, if you don't have the young people in the pool, you cannot price effectively. >> obamacare is blowing up. it's not working. people aren't signing up. >> more people are signing up all the time. a million signed up since the election. >> article after article, people are reviewing it and saying obamacare is absolutely imploding and that's why we need to repeal and remace obamacare. so dr. tom price, every cycle for the last several cycles, has

introduced solid replacement bills. that's one of the thing he's going to lead the charge on. miss seema verma -- >> hold on. i don't want to move away from price yet. >> this is part of our team that's going to come in and repeal and replace this is. you saw the study that came out this morning, the gallup poll. 80% of americans think we should get rid of or make changes to obamacare. >> right, but you have to forgive some public sentiment on something that's been so misleading. the discussion about what the aca is and is not, what works and what does not, has been so spun through the mitt call cycle that you can't hold people accountable. >> here's what i think we're getting a little off track with this. for folks who are getting these premium increase letters in the mail, for people getting these policy cancellation notices, this isn't something -- >> has to be fixed. >> well, repeal and replace. this isn't some spin. >> repeal and replace is spin. everything that has been put forward by price -- he's put forward five different plans,

which is something he's going to have to figure out when he gets in there. usually the hhs secretary isn't architect. let's say he is. the likelihood is you're not going to completely scrap it. you're going to keep larng elements of what's going on. you may fix. the idea of repeal and replace is going a little wholesale when you're going to be a little more retail in your changes. >> chris, for people who are getting these letters in the mail saying their premiums are going up. arizona, over 100%. pennsylvania, upwards of 53%. other states will be even higher. people are getting cancellation notices. i'm someone who's a small business owner. i've seen our health care policy skyrocket. and even people who aren't in obamacare are seeing the effect it's having on overall health care system. these are real world, real problems affecting people's wallets every day. >> that's why we need to know the fixes. >> and the president-elect is putting together a solid team that will be working with the senate and the house. dr. price will be someone at forefront working with the vice president-elect as well. we'll have a team because we're

going to put together the exact plan and how we're going to do this. and it's something that the president-elect has said it's something we wants to tackle early in miss administration, potentially a day one issue. again, that was a campaign promise he made on the trail. it's something he's going to uphold. people are worried about what's going to happen with their health care. we have a president-elect who's going to dive in and tackle that right away. they're going to come up with a solid plan and move forward right away. rvelg a >> and to end where we began, in this new network with president trump, what will be allowed? what the constitution says is allowed or what people at that time politically decide what's allowed? what will be the guide? mpk t >> the president-elect is a very strong supporter of the r first amendment, but there's a big difference between that and burning the american flag. >> will he respect constitutional law? that's what i'm asking. i don't like burning the flag either. you going to put something in jail if they do it? >> flag burning should be illegal. getting b inting back to what t

president is going to be focused on, he's going to work on jobs, fix our health care. we're looking at big headlines this morning that quite frarnkl should scare people. go back 10, 20 years ago. the headlines we're seeing are becoming all too often. it's really scary stuff. we need a president who's going to get in there and make it stop. >> you got to make fix, but you don't want america to be in fear. >> we're going to see president-elect is a fab it's aic leader. he's putting together a great cabinet. also, we have in addition to dr. price, we'll have additional transition team members coming on board, folks working as vice chairs and executive committee for how we're going to form and put this administration toogt. we have another cabinet level pick coming out early afternoon today. as the president-elect said, as he comes to a decision on all these, he's going to announce them and get them out there. when you look at where

president-elect trump is at this stage of the transition as opposed to recent administrations, he's well ahead of the pace. i think he has some solid picks that have been announced, and people should be proud that the team is put together. >> jason miller, thank you for the work as always. appreciate it. one democratic congressman wants nancy pelosi's job. up next, we speak to tim ryan to find out why.

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r house democrats set to vote tomorrow on who they want to be their next leader. our next guest is challenging nancy pelosi for that post. joining me now is democratic ohio congressman tim ryan. nice to see you, congressman. >> good morning. >> before we get to the vote tomorrow, i just want to ask you about what's happening in your home state. you know the breaking news, that there's been this terrible attack at ohio state university. from what you know, do you believe this is a terror attack? >> well, first and foremost, our thoughts and prayers go out to all of the families that are at ohio state. i mean, this is just a tragic act in such a great town, such a great college campus. just a few days after the great

ohio state/michigan football rivalry. so the whole state is still in shock about what happened. i think we got to let the investigation play out. clearly there's -- it sounds like there was some rhetoric and posts that point in the direction of something very nefarious, but i think we have to let the investigation may out. >> congressman, one more point before we get to to your race. that is that as soon as tomorrow, the ohio senate plans to vote on a bill that could possibly allow concealed handguns on college and university campuses. do you think that's a good idea? >> you know, i really don't. i think that college campus and other areas need to be safe havens. i get it. i understand the other side of the argument, but there are certain places that i think need to be kind of insulated from guns. i think place of education and higher learning are those

places. but you know, again, that's in the ohio senate's hands right now. >> yeah. okay, so when we spoke last week when you were here in our studio, at that time your bid was considered somewhat of a long shot to unseat nancy pelosi. how's it looking today? >> well, i think a lot of people are going to be surprised tomorrow. we have a lot of support. we keep rolling out members of congress who are supporting us. we rolled out two more last night. we have two more coming today that i think people will be excited about. i've been making calls, you know, all week since i left you in new york. people are excited for some change. i'm excited to have the opportunity to lead the caucus if they so choose. i think we need a change. again, we're at the smallest number we've had in our democratic caucus since 1929. we really got to ask ourselves when we walk out of the room tomorrow, what are we going to

tell the american people. that what happened on tuesday and what we've not been able to do since 2010 is okay. we're going to keep going down the same path. or will we have a new messenger, a new message, a new brand, and a new democratic party. >> what's your biggest beef with nancy pelosi's leadership style? >> well, you know, we're not winning. that's the main beef i have. i come out of the sports world and played a lot of sports growing up. we keep score. we're not winning. i just don't think it's acceptable for us to say losing 60-some seats since slaughtered country. obviously everything in washington, d.c. is now republican. we want to be in a position to be able to implement our ideas as democrats. it's not, you know, just getting in, but it's we have certain thi things we fight for. pension, making sure kids don't get thrown off their health insurance.

these are important things to democrats. if we don't have the levers of power, there's not going to be anything we can do other than complain about it. i think we need to make a strategic decision to go in another direction, very respectful of nancy pelosi and all of her accomplishments, but i think it's time to go in a new direction. >> why do you think democrats have lost their way, specifically what have you all done wrong? >> well, we don't have a robust economic mess an. we don't have to give up our r progressive values on progressive issues. those, of course, are a major part of what we stand for as democrats. but if we don't have a robust economic message, we don't have a message that ties all different interest groupsing to. if you want to run a successful campaign, a campaign with a lot of juice a lot of magic to it, you've got to have a theme, a robust economic theme in policies that tie everyone together.

look, if you're black, brown, white, gay, straight, man, woman, you want a good job. you want a job that pays. you want increased wages. you want a good pension. you want health care benefits. you want security. and you don't want to have to work 80 hours a week and miss your kid's soccer game or school play. these are fundamental to everyone in the country. if we don't have a mess an that really puts that out there, we lose. that's what's been happening. that's why we are where we are now. >> so as you and i speak right now at 7:36 eastern, what do you think gluyour numbers are? >> we are within striking distance. we've got a lot of support and a lot of people that are helping us. as i said, we keep rolling out endorsements. marsha fudge, who actually ran the democratic national convention for us in philadelphia, was chair of the congressional back caucus, very, very popular in our caucus, is

supporting me and came out last week. so we have key endorsements, moving people into our camp. we have to correspondent to make the case to our colleagues in the next 24 hours that what's the world going to look like when we walk out of that room on wednesday. what are we going to tell all the democrats? what are we going to tell all the americans that told us they wanted change, that we weren't going in the right direction? i feel like we really need to tell them we got to move in another direction r. i'm the one that's there to help provide that voice. and i know i can go anywhere in the country and campaign for democrats on the issues we talked about a little bit earlier. i'm excited to be able to do that. i'm excited to help create what can look like a very, very new democratic party. >> congressman tim ryan, we will be watching. thanks so much for taking time for "new day." chris? if you've been paying attention to the transition for the presidential administration, you'll notice there's a lot of drama surrounding it. is the president-elect intentionally choosing his

administration like a reality show? and if so, is this a good sign for the country? some big brains on the transition ahead.

the trump transition. romney is in, then they hate him. rudy will get the rose. no, he's going to be fired. it seems like a reality show is going on. then to add some spice, trump tweeting random distractions, like saying millions voted illegally. not true. or that nag buflag burning shou illegal. so is this strategy or just

track i d tragedy? we have a good panel for you this morning. we have cnn mitt capolitical congressm commentator r kevin madden. good to have you all here. kevin, you've been involved with this before. what is your observation as to the motivation of this, the obvious dissent going on? is it just pageantry, or is there some purpose here? >> well, i think we're trying to prescribe a strategy to it would be going a bit too far. what the mistake we all make in watching this process play out is we try to jung it against what we believe were con vengal transitions of the past. you just can't do that. the trump campaign was successful because it was very unconventional. and it was a campaign that litigated its differences in

public, whether that was in the newspapers or nonstop on cable television or on social media. so this is the new norm that you're going to, i think, see with the trump campaign. i'm sorry, with the trump transition, and likely one we'll see going into the administration, which is a public airing of differences, a little bit of chaos between power centers inside the administration, power centers inside trump world. then ultimately the president-elect himself, donald trump, making the decision. >> so scottie, tom price coming out. he's a legit author of different versions of how to do health care in this country. gets the big job of hhs but gets overrun by the president-elect's tweets, saying that millions voted ilt leg ed illegally, whi not true. now saying flag burning should be illegal, which comes out of nowhere. why is he stepping on his own thunder, to misplace metaphors? >> i don't know if it's

necessarily. there are several things mr. trump is giving us to cover. you don't have to stick on the same subject. it is a get thing to see tom price. i think he's one of the republicans that offered a solution, just like all the people that mr. trump is putting on the cabinet. here's the thing. one message that was cheerilear sent by the people to washington, d.c. is we need transparency in government. the people don't trust what is going on. while we might consider this to be pomp and circumstance, almost like "the apprentice" cabinet as they go to the gold elevators and go up for their interview, i think this is mr. trump saying, look, i'm going to keep everything out in public, i'm going to show you who i'm talking to, and show you i'm bringing a variety of ideas to the table. >> paul, scottie says it's all about transparency with donald trump, who has made tran parn si a dirty word. >> in fact, it's about lack of transparency. i disagree with madden.

i think there is a strategy. the strategy is weapons of mass distraction. right. when the trump university lawsuit was settled, donald trump and his firm paid $25 million to people who accused him of fraud. what did he do? he tweeted out attacks on the cast of "hamilton" and "saturday night live". why? because we follow the shiny objects. instead of saying, look, i have these, i'll be transparent, i'm going to release my taxings and sell all my companies because i'm going to put my sole efforts into representing the american people, which is what he must do if he's transparent. no, instead he tweets out attacks on cnn, lies about the popular vote, which he lost by over 2 million, and now apparently his new theories on constitutional law. all to distract us.

>> kevin madden, weapons of mass distraction. that's a catchy phrase. do you agree? >> let me extend and arevise my remarks in accordance with what the gentleman from texas said. the transition part of it is what i was talking about. i don't think there's a lot of strategy there. but paul is right that what donald trump seems to like is a lot of chaos around him. when there's chaos in the media and amongst his opponents when they're chasing off on these stories about constitutional haw or whether or not the media is fair, he's firmly put in control. when he's allowed to dictate the cadence and the tone of a lot of the media coverage, we're about to go into a 48-hour news cycle now just on this question of flag burning. he's actually in control. when he's in control, that's right where he wants to be. in that sense, i think what they're doing on the social media side is definitely a

strategy. >> i don't know. we're not going to go crazy about it here because you have a clear constitutional precedent. >> check youri iphone right now for twitter. >> chris, here's the thing. i can't believe that i'm stepping into this conversation because i've learned never usually to involve outside the subject matter. he said he thinks it should be outlawed. he doesn't like it. i think a majority of americans don't like it. he's not saying he's going to issue an executive order to make flag burning illegal. let's remember, the supreme court hasn't always gotten it right. 1858, the supreme court ruled that dread scott should remain a slave, despite him living amongst a free territory. he's just throwing it out there. he's allowed to have his opinion. he doesn't think abortion is right. he's not saying i'm going to make an executive order. let's not make a big to do of everything. >> for the record, he couldn't

issue an executive order. >> exactly. then why are we having this conversation? >> good thing to remember. >> he believes it should not be right and there should be a consequence. >> he's not suggesting an executive order. it's a good thing he isn't. >> the first amendment is the first amendment. most people are offended by flag burning. fine more mr. trump to speak out against flag burning. why was he not as upset when people were doing the hitler salute? they have a first amendment right to do so. but when people who claim to support donald trump are making nazi phrases, he have is not as offended. he has to be careful about pick and choosing. >> i'm more offended by burning the flag. it's something we love. people see the salute as a hateful thing. >> but they're expressions protected by the first

amendment. >> understood. gentlemen, lady, thank you very much for being with us. i like the respectful disagreement. alisyn? house democrats are pushing their republican colleagues to address donald trump's conflicts of interest that you've just heard about. now they're calling for an urgent investigation. by the time you head to the bank and wait to get approved for a home loan, that newly listed, mid-century ranch with the garden patio will be gone. or you could push that button. sfx: rocket launching. cockpit sounds and music crescendo. skip the bank, skip the waiting, and go completely online. get the confidence that comes from a secure, qualified mortgage approval in minutes. lift the burden of getting a home loan with rocket mortgage by quicken loans. (whisper) rocket

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that's liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. house democrats calling for an urge against investigation, they say, into donald trump's wide international business holdings and conflicts of interest. trump says he's not breaking the law and voters knew of all of his business holdings before they voted for him. let's bring in carl bernstein, the author of "a woman in charge." he's a cnn analyst and journalist of course and tim o'brien, the author of "trump nation, the art of being the

donald." executive editor of bloomberg view. try to walk us through exactly what these conflicts of interest are, why the viewers and voters should care. i'll start with you, tim. you've done a great deal of reporting on his finances, taxes. can you sort of communicate the scope of these conflicts of interest? >> well, they're global and domestic. the primary issue is whether or not he's going to pursue public policies that can -- that end up feathering his nest financially or from a deal's perspective. i think the media has mischaracterized a chunk of how they describe his business dealings. he's routinely referred to as having a vast real estate empire. it's not vast nor is it an empire. it's essentially a licensing operation that operates globally. it would be very easy to appoint

someone to operate those licensing deals. he has operations in the middle east, asia, that represent the hot bed of issues that haven't been resolved. >> carl, the seminal question is do people care? donald trump says they all knew who i was before they voted for me. do you accept any of this? >> no. this is a corrupt arrangement. it's an invitation to egregious corruption. should there be an investigation? if this were hillary clinton or richard nixon there would be a congressional investigation of this the minute his term started. we've got to look at what's happening here. we elected a president of the united states. his job is to lead the country, not be head of trump, inc. the conflict cannot be resolved. it must be that this president

puts into a blind trust his holdings. it's simple as that. >> how do you put into blind trust a business that's based on licensing and his popularity. >> the assets will be sold. i don't know the mechanics or forensics of how he gets rid of what he has. let's look at his family. his family is deeply involved in all of these properties. he is involved in countries all over the world in which oligarchs are trying to get their share. this is an invitation to a terrible, terrible level of corruption on its face. you must have a separation of the president of the united states, there's also a clause in the constitution that might well apply to this and says that this cannot be, but this is not why donald trump was elected. i suspect that most of the people in the country when they

have a chance to look at this say, no, this is not what we elected this president for. this is a swamp. >> tim, i think average americans would be hard-pressed to say that they understood the level of donald trump's business arrangements when they went into the polling booth for him. he has something like 144 individual companies in 25 countries. >> how could they know? he never made any of it transparent. >> absolutely. you'd have to be pretty steeped in the reporting as you are to understand the breadth of all of this. >> but i think if donald trump turns the white house into a walmart, average voters will care. they may not care now, but it's the role of the media and congress and his own white house and transition team to monitor this stuff because he's occupying an office that comes with a certain amount of dignity, designated amount of transparency that he's completely flouted.

he should release his tax returns. he should ring fence his assets. voters will care when this starts to infect the public policy process which inevitably it will. >> doesn't he have perception on his side? the taxes thing, people were okay with. >> i'm not sure if people are okay with it. >> they said he should show his taxes but he got elected anyway. >> of course he got elected. the country is deeply divided, but it doesn't mean necessarily that most people in the country accept this kind of thing. what they can stand on. this is the great one. that is what he is creating. months and months. this is the argument going back

and forth. look at donald trump's business. >> you don't think that the election removes this whole area of speculation? people weighed him, measured him and found him sufficient? >> look, first of all it was not a referendum on whether or not donald trump should be head of trump, inc., for the world while he is in the white house. that's not what this election is. >> it says it's separate. >> he can't do it. it's an impossibility. look at his children. look at their visits to russia. look at their visits to georgia. look at jared kushner's activities and where he has been. it is impossible not to be corrupted by this. that's the problem. even if donald trump had the most sterling business record in the world, which he does not have, you cannot avoid corruption in this situation. >> carl, tim, thank you for helping us understand it all.

great to see you. >> thanks, alisyn. we're following a lot of news including a deadly plane crash so let's get to it. charter plane carrying a brazilian soccer team crashes on its way to colombia. >> 75 people killed. >> there are now six survivors. this is a national tragedy. >> the guy ran a car through a crowd of students. >> he looks normal like everybody else. i never expected anything. >> terrorism? >> the only thing you can say based on common knowledge, this was done on purpose. >> a number of very important announcements. >> see where it goes from here. >> they spent a year and a half beating up hillary clinton. there's a lot of similarities in revealing classified information. >> i know one thing about mitt romney, he's going to be loyal. >> what do i know about mitt romney? he is a self-serving egomaniac. this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> welcome to your "new day." we do begin with breaking news

for you. 75 people are dead after a charter plane carrying a brazilian soccer team crashes in colombia. miraculously several people on board did survive. >> officials confirming the plane was carrying a now famous brazilian football club. it crashed miles after the pilot declared an emergency. we have cnn's shasta darlington. she has the very latest from rio de janeiro. this was a brazilian soccer team. it's going to hit the hearts very heavy there. >> thaertt's right, chris and alisyn. 75 people killed when a chartered plane crashed outside of colombia. this was around 1:00 a.m. local time. the good news, if you can call it that, is that there were six survivors. initially there were five people recovering in hospital, then afterwards they found a sixth person under the fuselage as rescue workers were struggling to find bodies. they found