arizona/mexican border where mexicans have been crossing into the u.s. illegally. guards determined to keep them out. thanks for joining us. watch the show anytime, anywhere on cnn go. see you back here tomorrow. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. thanks for joining us. the president believes what he believes. that's what sean spicer, the white house press secretary said about the president's claim millions of illegally documented immigrants voted illegally for hillary clinton. let's be clear, there is no evidence that happened. if it did, it would be an extraordinary fraud. if it happened you would think there would be calls for a congressional investigation and justice department hearings. if the president really believed it would happen you would think he himself would be calling for those investigations. now, either the president believes something for which there is no evidence and is false or he doesn't really believe it and is just using this as an excuse to explain why he did not win the popular vote.

either way, the president is spreading a falsehood and is the subject of our "keeping them honest" segment tonight. jeff zeleny begins it. >> reporter: the white house is standing by president donald trump's unsubstantiated claim that millions voted illegally in the november election. >> the president believes that, hz has stated it before, stated his concern of voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign. he continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence that people have presented to him. >> reporter: press secretary sean spicer doubling down on the president's claim. but repeatedly unable to point to evidence that backs up the charge that has been debunked by republicans and democrats alike. >> you said the president believes there was voter fraud. i wonder if you believe that. you were with the republican national committee at the time and reince priebus was the chairman of the rnc at the time. do you believe there was widespread voter fraud? >> my job is not -- >> how can he be comfortable with his win if he believes -- >> he's very comfortable with his win.

it's an electoral based system. he got 306 votes. 33 of ooh states voted for him. i've asked and answered this question twice. he believes what he believes based on information provided. >> what about democracy, though, sean? >> next. >> what does that mean for democracy? >> it means i've answered your question. >> have you? >> reporter: the allegations of voter fraud which trump repeatedly made before taking office surfaced again after the president repeated that claim monday night while meeting with congressional leaders at the white house. >> i think he won handily. he's very comfortable with his win. >> reporter: but he doesn't sound like it. he won the electoral college but lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million. he charged millions voted illegally, a claim as unsubstantiated as when he first got the election. republican senator lindsey graham says if trump believes it he should disclose his proof and ask for an investigation telling manu raju such allegations erode the president's credibility. >> so i would urge the president

to knock this off. this is the greatest democracy on earth. you're the leader of the free world and people are going to start doubting you as a person. >> reporter: from the white house podium, spicer left open the door to launching an investigation. but repeatedly brushed aside questions from reporters. >> there is no investigation. it's -- i said it was possible. anything is possible. it was a hypothetical question. my point to you is that to ask us on day two, he made a comment last night on something he's believed and said for a long, long time. >> reporter: trump still on a quest to prove his legitimacy. it came on the fourth full day of his presidency overshadowing his executive actions to restrive keystone pipeline and clear the way for the dakota access pipeline, two more reversals of the obama administration. the president said today he is closing in on his first supreme court nomination to replace the yearlong vacancy of antonin

scalia. >> we will pick a truly great supreme court jus sis. >> jeff zeleny joins us now. sean spicer did not answer your question about whether sean spicer actually believed what the president is saying given he was working at the reasons reason and would know i think about that kind of concern. didn't the president's open attorneys rule this out already, that there was this massive fraud? didn't they say there was no evidence of fraud? >> indeed they did. if you'll remember back to that lawsuit about the potential recount of votes in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania, in the michigan case specifically, the trump lawyers are argued this in the court papers saying all available evidence suggests the 2016 election was not tainted by fraud or mistake. that was in the court filings. so if you ask republicans privately, they do not believe this. they believe that he won the electoral college. the question is why does the president believe this? and if it matters or not. now, at the white house tonight they are trying to move beyond this, change the subject a it goes into the second day here,

but until the president says it himself, anderson, i'm not sure this will go away. >> jeff zeleny, thanks very much. president's claim when word got out last night overshadowed the other headlines. the same can be said about sean spicer's defense of it today. it dominated today's press conference. because it continue stains shaky assertions and mud gi arguments, we thought it was worth playing a longer portion. >> does the president believe millions voted illegally in this election? and what evidence do you have of widespread voter fraud in this election if that's the case? >> tt has stated his concerns of voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign and continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence people have presented to him. >> why not say he will definitively investigate if there was massive voter fraud? >> first of all, the comment he made was he said 3 million to 5 million people could have voted illegally. based on the studies he's seen.

>> 3 million to 5 million people voted illegally, that is a scandal of astronomical proportions. does anyone ever restore americans' faith in his ballot system? wouldn't he want an investigation? >> as i've noted, he's believed this for a long time. >> why not investigate something that -- >> maybe we will. >> i want to be clear about this investigation because it seems like he's opened the door. have you discussed with the president -- >> which investigation are you referring to? >> possibly investigating this voter fraud -- >> i did not -- no, i did not. >> you said it's possible. >> anything's possible. >> what evidence do you have? >> as i said i think the president has believed that for a while based on studies and information he has. this isn't the first time you've heard this concern of his. >> worth clarifying whether illegal ballots or illegal immigrants -- >> there have been studies that came out of pew in 20082008 that showed 14% of people who have voted were noncitizens. there are other studies that have been presented to him. it's a belief he maintains. >> you heard sean spicer

referring to a 2008 pew research study. that, in fact, does not exist. pew, however, did a study four years later which the campaign cited on other cases so we assume that's what he's referring to. we reached out to a man involved in that study, david becker, the primary author of the study. thanks for being here. the pew study which you authored that's been frequently cited by the trump camp for months it found that while there are millions of out of date registration records due to people dying or moving, that does exist, there was no evidence that voter fraud resulted from that. is that correct? >> right. there was no attempt to even quantify it in many ways. we were really just trying to kwunt quantify the challenges election officials have keeping their voter lists up to date. this study came out almost five years ago now. what we've seen since then is that thanks to the work of many in this space, states and local election officials have done a much better job of using data

and technology to keep their voter rolls up to date. i think the rolls for the 2016 election were probably the most ak ralt list we've ever had and they'll get better. >> when trump/spicer says the president believes there's been massive voter fraud based on studies and evidence, that's what the phrase that's been presented to him, to your knowled knowledge, are there any studies or evidence that points to any kind of large scale voter fraud? >> i don't know of any evidence. i was at pew and ran the elections team there. i was there eight years, i was a lawyer in the justice department in the voting rights section there for seven years in the clinton and second bush administrations and extensively. i don't know of any study that's found significant voter fraud. election officials across the country studied in their own states, tried to prosecute people who have allegedly committed voter fraud, found

only a handful of instances. i think this says something really good about the american people. they take their elections seriously. i think fraud is exceedingly rare. and if you look at numbers you're more likely to get bitten by a shark who's won the powerball lottery than find someone who committed voter fraud. >> have you ever heard of a shark actually winning the power ballotry? >> no. that would be unusual. >> that study you said i think it was -- 2016 study out of a billion voters there were 31 provable cases of fraud or attempted fraud? >> yeah. i think it was 2014, overseen by a professor at -- law professor at the university at loyola law school in los angeles. but republican and democratic election officials, people like republican secretary of state john huston in ohio who's worked really hard to make it easy to vote but hard to cheat, has looked into this study extensively and found only a handful, maybe a dozen over many election cycles in ohio when there are millions of votes

being cast. >> based on what you've seen of this past election, you would say there's zero evidence of fraud at this point and certainly fraud on the scale that the president is talking about 3 million to 5 million illegal votes. is impossible. >> yeah. i mean, any claim that suggests that fraud exists, it does exist more than zero. it just doesn't exist many much more than zero and any claim beyond that is false and not supported by the evidence. >> appreciate your expertise. digging deeper into how president trump's recent statements fit into a larger pattern, winston churchill famously said we will never surrender. forgotten is he uttered those words in the context of explaining the allied retreat at dunkirk. president trump has no taste for surrender but he shows no appetite for the bitter truth or mildly inconvenient facts. as joe johns reports, that tendency dates back long before he got into the race. >> i will totally accept the

results of this great and historic presidential election if i win. >> reporter: throughout his campaign, donald trump repeated false claims despite evidence to the contrary from talking down american democracy. >> i'm afraid the election's going to be rigged, i have to be honest. >> reporter: to questioning whether a faulty debate microphone was somehow rigged to work against him. >> i don't know if you saw that in the room but my microphone was terrible. i wonder was it set up that way on purpose. >> reporter: to widespread voter fraud. >> the only way we can lose in my opinion, i really mean this, pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. >> reporter: and even before he was a candidate -- >> "the apprentice" is a monster hit. ♪ money, money, money when his tv show "the apprentice" slipped in the ratings he still proclaimed it as the number one show on television. >> anybody here knows because you're in the television business, the apresent technical analyst is the number one show

on nbc, the ratings through the roof. >> reporter: jim dowd, the show's pr director saying trump became kind of a monster when it cams to the ratings. >> he's been a bad judge, very unfair. >> reporter: when his real estate training program, trump university, was sued, trump complained the judge was treating him unfairly because of his mexican heritage, even though the judge was born in indiana. >> i've been treated very unf r unfairly by this judge. this judge is of mexican heritage. i'm building a wall, okay? i'm building a wall. >> reporter: and on his other businesses. >> i've had some downs but i've had friends that went out of business, you'll never see them again. i never went bankrupt. >> reporter: while he never declared bankruptcy, his companies did, four times, in fact, most notably for his atlantic casinos. >> i had the good sense, and i've gotten a lot of credit in financial pages, seven years ago i left atlantic city before it totally cratered and made a lot of money in atlantic city and i'm very proud of it. >> reporter: joe johns, cnn,

washington. >> certainly a fascinating record, very much part of the larger conversation which we'll have with the panel when we come back. i'm sure they're anxious to get started. and later, is the new administration cracking down on dissent by censoring tweets? we'll tell you about tweets on climate change numbers that were up and then taken down. the administration's response. does it hold water or would a democrat today say vladimir putin would be proud?

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our panel joins us now. jeffrey lord, van jones. ed rollins. runs a pro trump superpac. ryan, making claims about widespread voter fraud is different than making unsubstantiated claims about the size of inaugural turnout. >> 5 million people would be about 4% of the people that volted in the 2016 election so that moub the most massive voter fraud in the history of modern democracies. it would call into question trump's election. he only won by 80,000 votes in thoo three states in the midwest. so 4% by trump's math you'd want to investigate. >> none of this is true. >> congressional election, senate elections, there would be a massive investigation. >> oured aer adversaries aroun

world, when they make the case against united states, they say democracy in the united states is not real democracy. you shouldn't be supporting this. this is playing into the hands. this is not just domestic implications and sowing, you know, doubts about democracy in our country. around the world our country is held up as an example of the greatest democracy in history. this is playing into our adversaries who make the opposite case. so it's to me completely mystifying why the president of the united states thinks there's any advantage in spreading this false information. >> you've covered the trump campaign very closely. it is a lot of what we heard during the trump campaign and now it's happening in the white house. >> i think he is incredibly plagued by the criticism that his election was somehow not legitimate and you've heard this a lot. he was very bothered by what congressman lewis said about him, saying he was an illegitimate president, and that's a serious to make. with trump it's always the size

of the reaction and the reaction was pretty large. i think he is has not adjusted yesterday, i don't know if he will, to how different it is to stay thing like this when you were in the white house as opposed to being on the campaign trail. it should not be okay to say it on the campaign but people are used to it. it's also striking to have the white house press secretary say this from the proceed yum, eventually making it policy. this isn't just people whispering on background that the president said xyz a meeting and ryan is right, people in other countries will look at this and i think there's a desire to denigrate and downplay the u.s. democracy and the foundation of it and the electoral process and this feeds into that. >> ed rollrollins? you served in the white house. how do you see this? >> i don't feel good about it. i think at the end of the day he believes this and to a certain extent someone should have sat him down and said here's why you lost to hillary in the popular vote, california where you didn't campaign, no republican

running statewide, you lost that state by 4.3 million votes. that's the margin. if you went in and spent $100 million, maybe it would have been a 2 million vote difference. nobody's explained it to him. >> you think he does believe it. >> i think he does. i think there's a rationale. jeff and i worked for a president who believed a lot of things he probably shouldn't have. the critical thing, and i mean no disrespect, just the reality. what you have to do is make sure that the system is built around you basically make sure every bit of facts and figures he gets there's empirical data. because when a president states something today -- and you have to understand, this is a guy who kind of lived in a fantasy world, his business, wrestle mania, you know, celebrity apprentice. >> are there those who build up numbers, this building is the best building in the city, stuff like that. >> i don't think he's out there deliberately lying.

i think he believes this and to a certain extent that doesn't diminish it at all. what he doesn't understand and my issue is when you step on your own story, the critical thing about running a white house is you have to basically make sure you communicate all on the same wavelength and you basically -- it's always a battle every day who's going to set the national agenda. ? is he? the national media? the congress? he had a good day today up until this point and when you basically -- now all the stories tonight, what we're talking about, is not the pipeline or things he did -- >> ed makes a smart point, which is he has a great story -- yesterday he had a great story to tell. today whether you agree with his policies or not, he had a great story to tell because this were things being done. >> you're going to delight with the fact you are getting me in trouble with my former boss. let me just -- >> not boss. >> let me say i have no idea how many people voted illegally, but

let me say in reference to articles in "the wall street journal" on knoch 30th of 2016 and in national review online october 20th of 2014, there are by my count at least nine examples of voter fraud by noncitizens voting. now, the ow authors of this, hans, former member of the med ral election committee, stop it, van, and former justice department official and john fund from "the wall street journal" have said they don't know, but they've made a real study about it, written a book about it and you can find -- nine examples -- >> they've made a real study of it and found nine examples. >> there's only so much in "the wall street journal." what they're saying -- >> saying there's only so much space in "the wall street journal." so they don't have space to focus on 3 million ill leet voters? >> they're saying the obama administration blocked efforts by states like kansas, arizona,

alabama, a and georgia to verify the citizenship of their citizens of people turning up to vote. >> the guy who wrote the study that the white house claims to be basing their things on who says -- >> a different story. i'm saying senator graham and mccain, and i've written about this, should get off their butts and investigate it. >> the question is why isn't the president calling for an investigation? >> i think it's great idea and he should. >> okay. van jones? >> jeffrey, i think your genius is worthy of a greater cause than this. this is ridiculous. yes, in the system where you have 320 million people, 180 million that can vote, there will be some people who do bad things. >> in a key election, van, it could be anything. >> hold on a second. 3 million to 5 million people is bigger than some of our states. it would be a massive number of people. you would have to believe some of the worst things possible

both about our electors, the -- i didn't want to talk about this, but as i've been trying to point out, trying to get people to vote when they are eligible to vote is almost impossible. the idea there's 5 million people out there who are not eligible to vote you could somehow get to vote, i don't know -- >> why not find out how many? >> trump doesn't want to apparently. let me say something else. it could be the case that this is the most genius thing that trump has ever done because we are talking about this and maybe he's glad because all these wonderful things that he's done today are actually awful things from my point of view. he's doing terrible things. he's shoving pipelines down people's throats. he's tagging people. >> by the way, we are going to cover all of that. >> i just want to say -- >> the sad thing is he had a brilliant election. he did exactly what any

strategist -- >> it was an extraordinary election. >> extraordinary. he basically executed it perfectly with a lot of missteps along the way and he beat a very viable candidate and campaign that was enormous. so by going this way, it diminishes what really happened. >> right. that's what i just don't understand from a purely political strategic point of view. >> thank you very much. i'm the president of the united states for the next four years. get over it. >> or eight years. a lot more to talk about, a lot of the news that van is upset about, that evan and jeffrey are not. right now i want to go back to the white house with jeff zeleny with more breaking news. i understand president trump is expected to announce several executive orders wednesday dealing with visas and refugees. >> he'll go to the department of homeland security tomorrow afternoon and continue signing executive orders. i'm told by aides at the white house and on capitol hill this

is going to be a multiday rollout of immigration-type things. tomorrow it seems that he'll be focused on border security. later in the week likely on thursday also focusing on visa and refugee programs, particularly some country where is he says and this administration says are hotspots for terrorism. of course this is part of a skilled back version if you will of the ban on muslims. so this is still being developed in terms of how they will be shaped. for the next couple days his immigration orders will be focused on immigration. >> and we may not know the details on this yet and if we don't, then that's fine. is this -- at one point he talked about a ban on muslim, temporary ban on muslims entering the u.s., then basically a ban on people from countries that are beset by terrorism. do we know what the parameters of this would be, this executive order? >> we don't know exactly what the parameters are but it is not a full-scale ban on muslims as he proposed in the december of

2015 in south carolina. that was his first sort of shot at this. as the campaign went along he adjusted that, called it extreme vetting, crafted it somewhat. i'm told it will be a more limited executive order targeting some countries specifically where there is terrorism but this will again be part of a multiday rollout. it won't include the dreamers and that is something that people are wondering why he is the not overturning that action that president obama signed. sean spicer said today president is focused on people who will do this country harm. that means he is going to put off at least for now some of those younger immigrants here, the dreamers. but tomorrow and thursday when he signs the orders, look for immigration action and those refugee actions coming. >> jeff zeleny, appreciate that. breaking news, more breaking news a national park goes rogue on twitter posting a series of tweets on climate science in the wake of social media blackouts ordereded by the trump

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more breaking news involving a national park and its twitter account in the wake of the trump administration enforcing a media blackout on the epa and briefly suspending all national park accounts on friday. the broader concern is the information is putting a lockdown on information it doesn't like. sean spicer was asked about blackouts today. >> the interior department, did they have the same thing over the weekend, banned from tweeting? >> i read that. my understanding is because they had inappropriately violated their own social media policies there was guidance put out to the department to act in compliance with the rules set forth. >> rene marsh joins was the latest. i understand this is over the latest kind of kerfuffle over tweets from badlands national park m. >> that's right. tt the latest news surround that national park in south dakota and its official twitter account. it sent out a series of tweets about climate change today that could be seen as defying

president trump, one of the tweets reading, "today the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is higher than at any other time in the last 650,000 years. #climate." not necessarily the kind of tweet that the new president might endorse. tru trump once called climate change a hoax invented by the chinese. we shall say that tweet was up for just a few hours before they were deleted. democrats quickly came out to criticize the move. dnc press secretary saying in a statement that vladimir putin would be proud. of course as you mentioned this all comes after the trump administration asked the department of interior to temporarily stop tweeting. that was after they retweeted those images that compared the crowd sizes of barack obama's inauguration to donald trump's. >> so why were these tweets deleted? do we know? was it from the administration or what? >> so at this point it literally

is a mystery. we reached out to the park. they have not returned cnn's calls. so it really remains unclear. was this something that the administration told them that they had to do similar to what we saw at the department of interior? that at this point is unknown, anderson. >> rene marsh, thank you very much. i was like how many people follow the twitter account of badlands national park? >> van, you're a democrat. are you concerned about this? the democrat ts certainly were -- >> my tweets. no. this is actually serious stuff and i'm glad we're going to talk about it. you're starting to see a pattern now. usually there's a sense of you have your political appointees and there's a political direction that's set, but the civil servants, the people who are just the b-team, they're going to be there, they were there before you got there, they'll be there after you're gone, they do their job, they

don't get interfered with on basic facts and data. for us to be day five or something and we're already down to like the social media intern is getting, you know, bossed around from the white house is what it looks like, that's frightening and wrong-headed. you have to let the facts speak for themselves and you don't want this stuff going on. >> jeff? >> the badlands national park, let me repeat this for jeff, it's a park, they don't tweet. people tweet. >> yes. >> my point, and we saw this with the intelligence community and i said at the time we're going to see this from other bureaucracies, these civil servants, lots of them belong to unions which endorsed the democratic parties for president -- wait. >> fact. are you saying it's not a fact that the carbon dioxide load is greater? >> van. >> not a fact? >> what i'm saying is these people work for the president of the united states. whomever that may be. god forbid in the obama

administration some rogue person out there in the administration tweeted something that was totally different than -- >> how is it -- the administration's policy to deny the fact of science and math? >> wait a minute. i'm saying -- >> are you saying that the president of the united states has a policy against facts? >> stay away from -- >> from the facts. >> the issue is do civil servants -- are they politicized? are they -- >> that's not the fact. more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is not a political fact. >> the department of housing and development do this, what if it's the intelligence community? >> put out facts? >> hold on. >> i protected you when you worked for me in the white house but i promised you in bureaucracy, there's plenty of political people on both sides of the aisle and they are active and care deeply about their issues. i promise you in the epa and other places those people are probably more active. one of dangers in a new administration, and i used to train the secretaries, don't get

captured by the natives. go out there, and i know nothing, and all of a sudden they take care of you and two weeks later they come back -- >> you can't possibly defend -- >> the tweets of the badlands? >> you're one of the greatest people in the american politics. you cannot think it's great for the new administration to be deleting tweets that only put out facts. it's not saying climate change is real. it's facts. >> they're putting out alternatives. >> there are bigger issues to deal with. what i've learned from the last couple days, i made a decision a long time ago i never want to be the press secretary. to watch this poor soul out there the last two days get the crapped out of him, that's just -- >> the question is do people who work at the park, don't they work for the american people and not the president? >> sure, but the president, whom afterthe president is, is their boss. he runs the executive barraranc.

they're in the executive branch. i would defend president obama -- a rogue conservative -- >> what rogue? >> sending out -- because whoever it is -- >> it's a fact. >> again, the park is not tweeting. >> let me tell you why you're wrong. you would be right if somebody tweeted and said this amount of carbon in the atmosphere is causing climate change to happen because that -- that would be -- this was a fact that said the amount of carbon in atmosphere is greater than it's been. nobody's arguing against that. and that got dlooeted. >> let's -- we'll come back with more, take a quick break, talk about the new executive actions president trump siped today clearing the way for major oil pipelines his predecessor blocked. (vo) do not go gentle into that good night, old age should burn and rave at close of day; rage, rage against the dying of the light.

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the breaking news from the white house, president trump expected to sign executive actions tomorrow on visa and refugee restrictions. today also started with executive actions to advance the stalled pipelines overturning decisions obviously made by president obama. here's what the president said this morning about the move. >> this is with regard to the construction of the keystone pipeline.

something that's been in dispute and subject to a renegotiate of terms by us. we're going to renegotiate some of the terms, and if they'd like we'll see if we can get that pipeline built. 28,000 jobs. great construction jobs. >> shouldn't come as a surprise. >> they've been campaigning on this for years. fact check, the state department says yes there will be tens of thousands of jobs created in the one to two years it takes to build the pipeline. the number of permanent jobs are trivial, in the dozens. i've been to the canadian company that will build this pipeline. irony that this is a canadian infrastructure project. i've been to calgary where trans-canada's headquarters are.

their entire pipeline operations are done from a control room in calgary. so it won't create thousands of jobs long term. the construction in the short term, the one to two years it will. he made a very interesting caveat there, though. he said it's subject to negotiate. and i'll be curious to see if transcan ta comes back, submits their application to build the pipeline and does the trump administration say, wait a second, we need a little more to let you guys do this. if he did that, that would be more of a victory for the united states. >> it's certainly taken on symbolic value for all the sides on this debate. >> oh, yeah. we've been hearing about this issue for years now. if you put it in the context of what president trump -- every time i trip and start to say president obama, i'm not used to it still -- when you put it in the context of what he's been doing this week, this is a week that is about framing the beginning of his presidency on what he promised to do in his first several days when he was campaigning. i think ryan is right.

when you look at the numbers here, i don't know that this is going to bring the kind of boom that he is talking about and i think that overall there is a broader issue where if he's not careful -- and i think he is making certain gains this week, and i think what he's don on trade was very smart politically -- i think if he's not careful about expectations he is setting himself up for something of a fall. i thought it was interesting that sean spicer at the podium yesterday refused to say with the unemployment rate is. that means they can kind of move the number house they want later from the podium, not manipulate statistics but it means they will say what number they want to rely on. a lot of these manufacturing jobs, what we're talk about over time, those industries are not coming back, so i think this is potentially problematic. >> for a president who's just starting out, something -- a two-year benefit is better than -- >> the best part of this drill here is that some of the big issues the obamacare repeal and replace, the tax programs, those are all complicated and needs the help of the congress to make that happen and they're not

quick fixes. what is a quick fix is to say president obama did xy and z and i'm erasing it. he's going to do a series of those. that to his base is a positive thing. i said i thought the speech which everybody else was thought was gloomy, i thought it was an important speech to his base. he stood up and said this is what i said on the campaign trail, i'm sitting in front of 1,600 most important people in washington, d.c., and i'm not talking to them, i'm talking to you and these are the promises i make. the executive orders are something he can do. 10,000 jobs, 15,000 jobs roo it now is important. >> van? >> the keystone pipeline has never been understood by either side. first of all, you're talking about 5,000 construction jobs, temporary, you have to multily up to 30,000 temp rare, 30 jobs permanent, most in canada. this is not some big jobs creator. problem is it's not a pipeline for oil. people say you have oil pipelines all over the place, why are you upset? it's a pipeline for the

nastiest, dirtiest stuff in the world off the bottom of everything in canada, they're going to shove it full of chemicals and shiite ut dooot i here. the last time we did this, we had a spill of that stuff and it ruined a city and you haven't been able to fix it. there is no insurance for the people dealing with the spills. we haven't talked about this is a lot of spill for few jobs. >> much more ahead including president trump and the ceos. he's met face-to-face with dozens of business leaders this week. since winning the election he wants them to put america first in his words. the question is his hands on approach good for business? we'll talk it over with robert reich and jeffrey lord. are ya doll? n britai, well, the only place you need go... london's got the best of everything. cornwall's got the best of everything. sport sport nightlife

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yeti and found a place to service it, too. ♪ jingle bells now when you're ready, you can sell your old car and find your new one all on cars.com you know us for shopping, and now we're there for every turn. cars.com >>. >> as you certainly know by now president trump has pledged to put america first and he's calling on american companies to -- since winning the election mr. trump has met with more than two dozen business leaders. president trump is pledging incentives such as corporate tax cuts in hopes they'll keep businesses here. trump's tough approach letting the free market be free or is he bullying these companies.

and trump supporter jeffrey lord is back aas well. >> secretary rice, if it results in more jobs for u.s. workers isn't that a good thing? >> more and better jobs. i think more jobs is not the only objective. we also want higher wages. american workers have not had on balance a raise in 30 years but yes, it is a good thing. the real interesting question here, though, is what is the nature of the deal? republican presidents for the last three administrations have sat down with ceos and they promised and often delivered tax cuts and also regulatory relief so-called but all that results is higher profits and higher share prices and not really better jobs. not more jobs because most of these companies, in fact, every private sector company is in business to raise shareholder

value and not to create more jobs. that's not the nature -- that's not the purpose of the private sector. so it'll be interesting to know what exactly is the art of this deal here. >> the other side of the coin is, is it a problem if businesses are making decisions not because of their climate or some kind of innovation but simply because they are afraid of the president? >> you do have to be careful. there's plenty of president for this. democrats of course are big fan of president kennedy who called in the head of steel industry and said, look, you've just raised prices and he pressured them and he is celebrated today for doing that. teddy roosevelt called in the heads of labor unions and business leaders to broker a solution to a coal strike i think it was in 1901 or '02. there's presidential precedent for this kind of thing. you do have to be careful about it. what's different. >> why do you say that? >> because you don't want the power of the federal government to just be willy-nilly loosed on

whomever say private citizen out there in a private company. on the other hand, we've never had a president like donald trump. he is gone directly from the private sector which he understands imminently to the presidency. so he's bringing in an approach to this that we have not seen with any other president in that sense who's that h that experience. very fascinating to see how he does it. >> if ceos are worrying about what the president may tweet about their companies at any given time why shouldn't the president use everything in his arsenal to goad them into making decisions to favor the united states? >> that use of tweets and that kind of bullying can be very, very dangerous. it's not only anti-democratic and belith rant but it is also against the whole way our markets are organized. it's not a government by law. it is a government of law. it's a government of one person who is basically saying to individual ceos you better do

what i want or else. i'm going to intimidate you. the other point that's interesting here is that donald trump did not invite in nissan and toyota and volkswagen. these are giant automakers in the united states. they are employing huge number of american auto workers. the number one krelg car in the u.s. last year was the camry, the toyota camry and most of that was produced in the united states. so there's an odd sense of america first that is both isolationist and it doesn't -- it's very economically unsophisticated. it's well, somehow the u.s. companies the big three are the only ones i care about when, in fact, g.m. has more employees overseas than it does in the united states. that's true of ford too. chrysler is not even an american company totally. it's a bizarre view of companies. >> this does fly in the face of

republican orthodoxy on free markets. >> it does to some extent. there's no question about it. i have to say earlier in the campaign i compared him on occasion to franklin roosevelt who seriously interfered in the american economy. i don't think that's donald trump's intent but i do think his intent -- i do think he believes to borrow a phrase from president obama the economy's in the ditch and is he going to pull it out of the ditch so this is how he's starting. >> the cynical way of viewing all this and i hate to be cynical is that it's all just symbolic. it's just to create the impression he's going to create or he is generating a lot of jobs when, in fact, these companies are not going to do anything that is not in their interest and is not profitable. auto sales of u.s. companies have been absolutely static for years. there is overcapacity by many industry analysts view.

or put aside plans that they had already had to close plants. so this is just for show, right? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. this is somebody who knows full well that he's going to be judged on action. he's promised action and i think he's going to deliver. >> we'll see. appreciate it. much more ahead in the next hour of 360, president trump believes what he believes. that's how the white house explains how he lost the popular vote. the white house is offering no proof. free of artificial dyes and preservatives liquid gels delivers the powerful cold symptom relief you need without the unnecessary additives you don't. loudspeaker: clean up, aisle 4. alka-seltzer plus liquid gels.

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active secret service agent says she won't take a bullet for president trump. that's being investigated. first the continuing fallout from the president's debunked claim that millions of undocumented immigrants voted for hillary clinton. it's dominated the headlines for that of the day there's that and late orders of new executive orders. so you're learning information about new executive actions. let's start with that. what is it? >> reporter: we're hearing from our sources up on capitol hill that president trump will make a stop at the department of homeland security tomorrow and begin to sign a series of executives actions aimed at