being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. i'm brian stelter. it's sometime for "reliable sources." this is our look behind the media world works, how the news gets made. today how the travel ban is effecting reporters. stories about just how bad it can get when leaders really crack down on the media. we'll go live to moscow about that. an editor at large from breitbart news is here. tensions are high and getting higher. while there were lots of photo ops this week, there was a lot of basaccess to the president.

seems like trump likes the pictures but not the words. he attacked the new york times. he wrote somebody with aptitude and conviction should buy it and run it correctly or let it fold with dignity. in rare interview this week with the new york times, trump's chief strategist said this about the press. he said the media should be embarrassed and humiliated. he's talking about coverage of the campaign and should keep its mouth shut and listen for a while. the media here is the opposition party. the democrats are the opposition party but it's not just the president's senior advisor framing the relationship this way. it's also the president himself. >> i think the media is the opposition party in many ways. i'm not talking about all media. i know people, like yourself, i know people in the media that i have tremendous respect for. respect them as much as anybody. i'm not talking about everybody but a big portion of the media,

the dishonesty, the total deceit and deception makes them partially the opposition party, absolutely. >> meanwhile, trump started to keep many promises this week, signing executive orders that will take time to implement. reporters will have to keep following up. trump managed to say dozens of false and misleading things during his first week in office. all politician spin but trump makes them look like amateurs. why did he complain about the times today and yesterday. maybe it was this. here on the front page a story all about his fabrications saying there was a torrent of bogus claims that he made during his first days in office. joining me now to talk about all this brooke gladstone. steph stephen adler. lydia, congratulations on your new role.

let me ask you about this alleged war. if trump says he's at war with the media, if he and his aides are calling us the opposition party, does that mean we're at war with him? >> absolutely not. we're not the opposition party. it would be convenient for trump to have the media as the opposition. the media aren't the ones glocking to the airport to protest the muslim ban. the media aren't the ones that filled the streets the day after the election. this is ordinary americans getting out there and saying what they believe. i think our job in all of this is to separate fact from fiction, to use the very best tools in our arsenal to tell the stories that matter and tell them with integrity and with honesty and basically ignore this effort to frame us as the enemy.

>> ignore it. we've heard that from a lot of journalists that bannon and trump are trying to bait us and we cannot take the bait. if one side says they're at war and the other says no, doesn't that side lose? >> no. reuters is a global organization. we're on the ground in 115 countries. i can think of very few countries where the government says nice things about the press. there's a reason for that. the reason is our job, we're at our best is to try to get factual information to people so they can make smarter decisions about what to do for their lives and their loved ones and inherently the government is trying to spin the story in their favor. you have a different interest. it doesn't make you the opposition. you go out there and try to give them what they need and use whatever resources you can to get the information and don't rely on hand outs and don't worry so much about access. just do good journalism and remember who the end user is.

it's not us. we're not talking to each other. we're talking to people that need to know what's going on. >> brooke, you're not an editor, you're a critic. do you agree with the view that this is not a war? we're not at war with any administration? >> just don't engage. >> don't engage. >> all through history, the entire media have always been against presidents. george mason university did a study and found that in the first seven months of reagan's office, the first george bush, clinton, the second george bush, obama, all of the positive stories were about 30% of the total and even less for obama on fox. >> they are saying obama was given a free ride. >> it's completely untrue especially in the first seven months. the biggest free press advocate in our history probably thomas jefferson said you couldn't

believe anything you read in a newspaper because when he became president, one of the earliest stories was about him and sally hemmings and all the children that he probably had with her. it enraged him. he said even so, you needed the press and it's agitation to keep the waters pure. >> the famous coat were it left for me to decide whether we should have a government without newspaper, i would not hesitate for a moment to prefer the latter. that was jefferson concluding how important journalism was. it's easy to say we should do our jobs and everything is normal. do you believe this is a normal time for journalism? >> this is not a normal presidency. i think this is not a normal time for journalism. i think we'll be under unprecedented pressure and attack. the only way to respond to that is by doing exactly what stephen said. continuing to serve the people

who we are under the constitution mandated to serve. the constitution doesn't say the press has any special right. it comes down to the ordinary person's right to have information and to have unfettered information and that's who we serve. that's our role in american democracy. >> maybe we need to refrain this. rather than being on defense, people saying we're the opposition party, maybe this is about saying there seems to be war on information from this trump white house. >> i think that's right. >> there's a war on information. there's a war on fact. >> some say on reality itself. >> stephen, do you agree? do you sense something different right now versus bush and obama and other past presidents? >> it's certainly different. not to say obama was especially good on access. the press had a lot of issues with that. what i'd say is if it's war on

information, that's not war we have to fight. our job is to provide information and taking hand outs from an administration is not the best way to get information. it's the best time to be a journalist. it's challenging, interesting, it's hazard rd to be a good journalist. we cover cc and putin and all around the world we face these challenges. there is a play book to discuss that. >> brooke let me ask you about the cnn factor. we need the criticism. we need the feedback. i wonder right now if what we're seeing from this administration, this effort to delegitimize cnn in particular stands out to you. sheriff clark wrote back and said donald trump has labeled

cnn has fake news. when president trump says cnn is okay thagain then i might give u an interview. what are we to make of this idea that it's not just his words that people are taking actions as a result of trump's words. >> it's a problem. we have been blacklisted by cnn many times people won't come on our show because some things we have said. you get by. you make due with what you have. maybe you don't need that interview. maybe it isn't so much about access across the board. reporters in the washington press room, the briefing room are saying they are getting unprecedented access to the president but getting pre-fab statements that aren't true isn't going to advance the course of human knowledge. >> this goes back to the pictures versus the words. yesterday the press pool was brought to look through the oval office windows to see president trump on the phone with foreign leaders but we couldn't hear the conversations. they are letting us see what the president is doing and he always is complaining about what we're

reporting. >> sometimes they even let them hear. it's true. they get to mill around, the reporters. they're just not getting anything valuable and probably, certainly, the best reporting will happen somewhere else as has been widely reported people are leaking like sieves in this administration. >> already. it's day nine or ten. we're seeing a lot of leaks. >> there's plenty of story to be had. >> let's pause the story. i want to take a quick break here and talk about trump's cable news routine. it's been a daily routine for president trump tuning into cable news. only one news outlet seems to an open door to the white house. we're going to talk about the growing influence after this break. ♪

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breitbart news used to be on the outside looking in, but now it's very much on the inside of this white house. partly because steve bannon is president trump's chief strategist and because of some other new hires. julia hahn will join.

breitbart is criticized as a far right wing echo chamber. it's important that we understand that's happening. we shouldn't treat it like it's an exotic enterprise. joining me to discuss all this is the senior editor at large of breitbart. joel, great to see you. >> good to be with you. >> i understand you're on the management side of breitbart but i wanted to ask you about the readership and the audience. when you're writing for the site, who do you picture as the breitbart reader? i feel like breitbart gets ster stereotyped. who is your audience? >> i think we're a conservative news site. we were founded on the idea that ordinary american s have a stor to tell. if you listen to breitbart news daily, five days a week, three

hours every morning on channel 125, it's a call in show. you get a perspective of our readers and listeners. they provide a lot of feedback live on the air. these are people with different opinions. they have different opinions about presidential candidates. these are people with different opinions about executive orders that have come out in the last week. there's a wide variety of opinion among our readership and they also hold us accountable. if we don't do our job or hold the administration accountable, they're going to rebel against us and read other websites. we have a close relationship with our audience. i would suggest to anyone interested and listen to the radio show every morning 6:00 to 9:00 eastern. >> is it fair to say you'll be holding him accountable from the right. there was no executive order of immigration on day one as promised. >> that's right. earlier we also said he had

broken his first promise when he said he wasn't going to investigate or prosecute hillary clinton. that was a big theme on the campaign trail. breitbart focused on the promises he made on the campaign trial and much less these other shiny bubble stories. we have focused on the substantive issues of policy where president trump is expected to deliver on his promises. >> folks on twitter are telling me that i'm normalizing breitbart by having you on this program. what i want know is what you learned in your reporting for your book about how trump won. how much was about sewi insowin division and creating an us versus them narrative. >> the divisions were already there. obama ran for re-election not just on a negative campaign but

on a very divisive campaign. what people called the class war. the divisions were there. the media covered trump in a particular way that sought to exacerbate those opinions in some cases. describing him early on as a kind of nazi leader which some outlets did. some of the major networks. that just reenforced the relationship trump had with his supporters. being on the traveling press corps is like playing the washington generals. there was such a distrust between the media and the audience that trump could reenforce his relationship with voters by pointing out that the media has given them bad information or by mocking the media. other times with individual journalists, he was able to develop a repoir.

he does things for people when he think they have been fair. >> what does it mean now going forward? for him to call the media the opposition party, he's not including breitbart in that catego category. what does it mean for this relationship going forward? >> well, i think there's some journalists who revel in being the opposition party. i think it gives them relevance and i think they like it. i don't think it's the appropriate role for the media. the media will always be independent of the government and so they'll oppose in that passive way any government by producing truth and fact. i think there are journalists who declare in advance on the campaign trial they were proud to be the poopposing party. that's a big mistake the media is making. there's lots of talk about the

president versus the press. i hear very few journalists talking about their relationship with the public. what's the relation to the reading or viewing audience. are they reestablishing their trust with the people whom they are supposed to serve. at breitbart we have a close and daily feed back between our audience and the journalists that work on the site. you have to be independent but part of doing your job is dealing with your audience and making sure you're providing them the information you need. >> if we're telling the truth and there's an alternative reality on a site like breitbart that presents a scarier doomsday version of crime. how with resupposed to reestablish our trust if they're getting fed misinformation elsewhere? >> i don't know what you're referring to. i do remember cnn editing george zimmerman phone call. >> you're talk about nbc today

show. >> cnn said they heard a racial epithet on the call. >> you're going to take several years ago, reach out there and pull it out and say screw the rest of the media, right? >> i have a concrete example. has cnn apologized for that. >> i didn't even work here then. here is an example from breitbart that people point to the black crime section of the site. those are sited. when bannon was hired, that was cited as an example of divisive section. >> there's no black crime section of the website. that's been completely overblown by critics of breitbart who don't read breitbart and don't understand what we do. >> it's there. >> it's probably more diversity in breitbart editors. i reject that assertion. >> i think that's an important

point. i don't know if that's exactly true. it's hard to measure but we need ideological diversity in all these news rooms. i'm with you on that. >> i'm not just talking about ideological diversity. we have diversity of every kientdkind. you said the media needs to do some soul searching and yet that afternoon you were calling us a white nationalist website which was not only unfair but defamatory. i think you need to take a step back. the media needs to look at what the relationship is with the public and is it providing for people to make the right decisions. i think you enjoy an opposition role. you clearly have an opinion and more power to you. i think what readers want whether it's from your show or from our website is simply

information that allows them to make their own decisions. you provide that when you cover the media. we provide that when we cover the news. people have a wide variety of media outlets to choose from. i don't think there's any danger to press freedom. it's an kpieexciting time. i think people should agree the opportunity. >> agreement from our panel and with you on that that is an kpie exciting time. thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you. up next, the power of information and misinformation in the immigration ban debate. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. protests are planned in more than a dozen cities across airports. two his indefinite halt to

syrian refugee resettling. the president seems to think there's severe threats to the country. fact checkers say he's severely overstating that. where is he getting his ideas? where does the term muslim ban come from? the way i see it it all comes back to media consumption and trump's sources of information. let's look back 14 months to the mass shooting in san bernardino, california. a few days later on the campaign trail trump said this. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> someone wrote that statement for him and it was the genesis of the term muslim ban. in the weeks and months after the shooting trump repeatedly

told an untrue story about san bernardino. here is it. >> in their apartment or house, they had bombs all over the apartment. many people saw this. many, many people. muslims living with them many the same area. they saw that house. they saw that. >> there's no proof that any of that happened. what happened was a couple of neighbors were interviewed on local tv afterward. they talked about unusual activity and deliveries of packag packages. some of this was unreliable second hand information but they never mentioned bombs or anything on the floor. some right wing websites jumped on it. trump received faulty information and reached faulty conclusions and he told the story over and over again stoking fear about muslims. now fast forward to saturday. a senior trump administration official held a conference call with reporters. this is normal, to discuss the new restrictions. the official justified the ban by siting the san bernardino attack but quoting jones here, neither of the attackers in the shooting would have been

affected by the new ban. this is why fact free debates are such a problem. many conservative websites and some talk show hosts on fox news are invested in a narrative about brown skin boogey man. they imply refugees are coming to america to kill and the obama administration left the door wide open. that's bs. log onto state.gov for yourself. look for the page titled facts and myths about refugees. oh, wait, it's gone. you can see right there the state department fact sheet was deleted a few days ago. this is part of the changeover from obama to trump. here is what the page previously said. all refugees of all nationalities considered for a mission to the united states are subject to the highest level of security checks. the page went onto say syrian refugees go through an enhanced level of review. to be fair, every administration revises government websites but the disappearance of a page like this, this is why so many people

are concerned that the trump administration is erasing documents and data. the website is already full of misinformation about immigration but the web is also allowing people to respond with real information. allowing them to share their own stories and even live stream the protests at the airports. to talk more about this let me bring back my panel of media experts. stephen your reaction to the coverage of ban and the sub squen subsequent protests. >> i think the coverage was quite good. first question you ask is how newsworthy was it and it was very newsworthy. it was newsworthy of the ban and to see the demonstrations and see how it affected individuals and it was also newsworthy to see how it played outside of media elites. that's one of the place where is

the media falls short to make a quick analogy to the inauguration. everybody wrote how dark and negative and how unsuccessful the inauguration speech was. a poll said that by 49-39 margin the public approved and thought well of the speech. we have to look at how well the public is seeing this ban and not just look at the impact on people being blocked out. they're both newsworthy. watching cnn, nbc and fox last night, fox gave it much less attention. >> that's right. a lot less protest coverage. what about the idea that reporters are failing to stay neutral. about half the country supported this idea, this idea of refugee ban. i'm not seeing half of the guests on cable news expressing support for it. are news rooms failing to stay neutral on this. is neutrality even possible? >> i don't know that neutrality anymore objectivity is possible but fairness is always possible

and bringing a wide variety of views is also possible. i think the big problem is with every opinion there are assertions made and those assertions need to be checked. i think there should be more people coming on who support this ban if that's half the country or more. they need be -- we all have to be working from the same information pool and that's the confusion right now. >> speaking with a correspondent for major network this morning who said he'd be hard pressed to find a singlie journalist who covers the middle east is not embarrassed by what trump did. is that an example of journalists knowing this more personally and detailed. in some cases they worked with the citizens and know the story in a different way than the viewers do? >> i think that's right. i think there's a strong --

coming to the united states as an immigrant or refugee is such a universal story. one of the things i've seen is reporters who work for me, reporters who work for the new york times telling their own personal family stories about coming to the united states and finding refuge. how can someone be neutral or dispassionate about that? when you have colleagues whose family members escape the holocaust or escaped oppression in eastern europe during the cold war. i think it's unreasonable to think that journalists are not going to have skin in the game. this is fundamental to our identity as americans. >> another example of alternative facts. now "1984" is a best seller. >> i wonder if that's another example of journalists taking

aside, having skin in the game because we're all pro-fact, aren't we? >> i disagree slightly with lydia on this one. i'm hugely traditionalist on this one. i think our profressional discipline is to have views but try to put them aside so we can report as clearly and accurately as possible. one of the things we're missing is the economic justification for trump being elected in the first place. collectively we weren't out there and really participating in their lived experience. even on immigration story we have to try to understand how immigration is affecting them. we should be trying to put our opinions aside.

>> i think that's fair but i think you also, i go back to what the editor from breitbart said is this connection to your audience and a deep understanding of who they are and where they stand. i think one of the major failings of the press in this cycle has been there failure to listen. we've ended up in this place where we have a highly professionalized, highly elite, highly east coast and west coast concentrated media that's handing down on tablets from the mountain judgments about where our country is and what we're doing. i think we have suffered from it and we have become discredited as a result of it. i think that opening a new compact with our audiences, one that shows who we are and listening to empathy to who we are and where they are is extremely important to move forward. >> thank you all for being here this morning. >> thank you. >> up next, going live to

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authoritarian. it's a loaded word and its use has increased a lot in compa comparison to trump's leadership aid. joel simon, the head of the committee to protect journalists told me this about steve bannon's recent suggestion that the press should shut up. this kind of speech not only undermines the work of the media in this country but it emboldens autocratic leaders around the world. they have consolidated power by marginizi

margin marg marginalizing independent media in the united states. committing a crime by exceeding the limit of criticism. alexi has reported on putin and russian politics for years. great to see you both. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> do you see in what president trump says about the press, do you hear echoes of what auth authoritarian rulers say about the press. is there any similarity? >> absolutely. when ever i look at what president trump and his team are doing, i'm like wait a second. i have seen this movie before. it's all familiar to us. i'm not talking about a country like iran or china where autocrats are crushing or strangulating the media. i'm talking about turkey. a country that was a democratic

a decade ago with somewhat independent media and now turn into a state where there's one journalist is being put behind bars since last summer on average every day. if there's anyone who is saying this cannot happen here in the united states, they are significantly understa lly unde how leaders can undermine freedom. >> we're not seeing newspapers shut down. we're not seeing journalists in jail. is it not big exaggeration to try to compare trump to what we have seen in turkey, for example? >> obviously we have strong mechanism here. we have strong and independent j judiciary in the united states. in that press conference these are the venues they cannot have

monologue. they cannot avoid those uncomfortable questions. then they impose. it was unthinkable that we'll see a lot of journalists be put in jail and also a lot of flu newspapers, including my own being shut down. when they attack one media outlet, the next one is silent. the next day the police stormed our newspaper, imprisoned our journalist and we can see the exact same thing here in the united states in the upcoming years if the media is suffocated here. >> i was pulling up a column you wrote. here is part of what you said. you said my message for covering president trump's administration is this.

don't get distracted by what they say. focus on what they don't say. what do you mean by that? >> well, you see, in russian media industry, the problem we're facing is not the fake news propaganda as much as genuine news but devoid of any content at all. we have career politicians that throughout their decade long careers do nothing else but suggest absurd and impassable bills with the sole purpose of staying in the headlines. it goes on for decades. we have to cover this to stay afloat because it brings traffic and you need traffic to survive to attract advertisers. when ever putin says something, these conferences last for four

hours and attended by 1500 reporters. whether you cover it or not, you will not become any wiser. no major policy announcement gets made. it's just a four-hour one man show and we're just extras in it. we're no moscow based news room, you will have to cover it. you will have to route all your resources for covering the press conference whether you like him or not. that's what we have now in russia. one of the answers was extreme specialization. we have independent outlets who just removed and got rid of these dependents on the federal

agenda. we have highly specialized news outlets covering only the core proceedings. >> some of the differences in the united states but i understand why some are drawing similarities as well. it helps to here both of your perspectives. thank you both for being here today. >> thank you. up next, donald trump's constant promotion of fox news this week. how are his cable viewing habits affecting his policies? stay tuned. y282sy ywty

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sources. fox news is one of the few outlets the new president doesn't criticize. sometimes he seems to live tweet the channel's programming, the way i like to tweet along with award shows. right after this segment on chicago crime a few days ago, it looked as if trump used

o'reilly's stats to write a tweet. it said, if chicago doesn't fix the horrible carnage going on, and then he lists these numbers, i will snd in the feds. now, there's another example of trump reacting to cable news on twitter. here it is from thursday's fox and friends. watch this. >> chelsea manning sounding less ingrateful for former president oo obama cutting twoith years off her sentence for leaking classified information in a new article, she is slamming obama as a weak leader. >> did you see the banner there, ungrateful traitor? less than 15 minutes later, trump wrote a tweet using the exact same language. you can see it on the screen now. ungrateful traitor chelsea manning. he even used the phrase weak leader, even though the editorial didn't say weak leader. a great example of trump and the table news twitter feedback loop. joining me now is matthew, global media editor with the financial times. you wrote all about the murdochs, the men who run fox

news and their relationship to trump. first on the idea of the cable news feedback lp. he watches a lot of cnn as well. he reads "the new york times" and then tweets about it. what are we to make of a president consuming so much news media coverage all the time? >> it's unprecedented. he takes all of his cues from fox news. he's pronouncing on twitter minutes after fox news reports things. but the bigger issue here is the sort of proximity between fox and trump. and specifically rupert murdoch, who runs and owns fox. >> do you view fox as a pro-trump network? >> they'll call me and shout at that if i say that, but the party line there, we are news and opinion. that's something that rupert said and james lockland, murdoch and his sons have also said. you look at the opinion shows, the three-hour primetime block of fox news is completely pro trump, since megyn kelly left, rupert personally selected tucker carlson.

their opinion is very pro-trump. that's hard to deny. >> ratings through the roof for fox right now. partly as a result of trump's presidency. talk to me about your impressions of the murdochs. you spent a lot of time reporting on this story. what are their views of trump? how does the father, the elder murdoch, rupert, vary from his sons, lachlan and james? >> you're right about ratings. last year, they beat espn in primetime for a news channel. unheard of. there is this big idealogical and political difference between rupert and the sons. the sons are taking over. they will be the future of the company. rupert is very pro-trump. james told friends, we reported this, that he was appalled by his father's promotion of the trump candidacy. >> appalled? >> you expect a some point, if rupert is no longer around and james is running fox solo with his brother by his side, that will be a hard line for fox news to continue to maintain. >> then again, you have a president promoting the channel, tweeting about it, telling people to watch it. he said to abc's david muir, go

to fox, see how fox covered one of my speeches. implying they got it right,io got it wrong. how would fox deviate if they have the president of the united states promoting what they're doing? >> i don't think they deviate for now. it's working very well for them, but there is this disconnect between what you see on the ground with the protests yesterday, the coverage was pretty scant, with the women's march a week ago. they kind of dipped in and out where the other networks were covering it pretty wholeheartedly. >> when i'm feeling cynical, i call that disciplined. they know what their viewers want and don't want. >> is that sustainable for four years? is it sustainable when rupert is no longer around and the ceo's wife tweeting regularly about how appalled she is, how disappointed she is in what trump is doing. >> that's the question, the long term? great to see you. thank you for being here. we're out of time on tv, but we keep going on reliablesources.com. join us there for a live stream

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a very different america. dramatic new moves at the stroke of president trump's pen. >> we'll have a very, very strict ban and we'll have extreme vetting, which we should have had in this country for many years. >> as the president bans people temporarily from seven majority muslim countries from entering the u.s. and suspends the entire refugee program. >> no hate, no fear, refugees are welcome here! >> we will fight this any place, anywhere. >> with travelers trapped at airports amid confusion with the new rules, how will the world react? and working the phones, president trump talk