public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we'll start today's show with a tough week for president trump's foreign policy. the travel ban stuck in court. russia, new complications there. that outreach to taiwan, reversed. what is going on? i have a great panel to discuss. then, is that ban legal? is it constitutional? we have two great legal minds to

explain. first, here's my take. maybe it's just me but a few weeks into the trump presidency between the tweets, executive orders, attacks, counter attacks, i'm feeling dizzy. i decided to take a break and try to find the signal amidst the noise. what is the underlying philosophy of this administration? if there is an ideologist, it's steve bannon. he's intelligent, broadly read and has a command of american history. i've waded through his speeches, he does not come across as a su he is an unusual conservative. bannon represents an older

school of european conservative thought that is distrustful of free markets, determined to preserve traditional culture, religion and unabashedly celebrates nationalism and marshal values. at a speech in 2012, bannon explained his disgust for mitt romney and admiration for sarah palin whose older son served in iran. welcome in. >> he's got five sons and not one has served a day in the military, and he wants to be commander in chief. he will not be my commander in chief. >> the core of bannon's world view can be found in his movie "generation zero." the main point is the financial crisis happened because of a larger moral crisis. the film blames the 1960s and the baby boomers who tore down traditional structures of

society and created a culture of narcissism. how did woodstock trigger a financial crisis four decades later you might ask. according to bannon, the break down of old fashioned values created a culture of self-centeredness that measured everything and everyone in one way, money. a more accurate version of recent american history might be there was a culture shift that did begin in the 1960s but feeled by a powerfully, deeply american force, individualism. america had always been highly individualistic.ueeled by a pow american force, individualism. america had always been highly individualistic.led by a powerf american force, individualism. america had always been highly individualistic. the great depression, the new deal, world war ii created a collectivist impulse that did transform the country. after a while americans began to reassert their age old desire

for personal freedom, individual fulfillment and advancement. the america that allowed individuals to flourish in the 1980s and '90s, was the place where the young and enterprising stephen bannon left a large bank to set up his own shop, do his own deals and make a small fortune. it allowed him to produce movies outside the hollywood establishment. build a media start up into a new power house and become an entrepreneur outsidehierarchy. this allowed his brash new boss to get out of queens and manhattan, build skyscrapers and his name brand while horrifying the establishment. donald trump is shoely the poster child for the idea of culture of narcissism. >> i think i have the best temperament. >> they discarded traditionalism in every way.

both men are divorced. bannon three times. trump twice. they have succeeded in achieving their dreams because society was wide open to outsider. breaking traditional morality did not stig mytimatize you. their stories are the stories of modern america. their message seems to been an d older, more familiar one. do as i say, not as i do. for more go to cnn.ccnn.com/thad and let's get started.fthat reed and let's get started.atha reed and let's get started.rtha reed and let's get started.etha reed and let's get started.ethat reed and let's get started.cnn. let's get started.cnn.com/fareet reed and let's get started.at reed and let's get started.t reed and let's get started. reed and let's get started. on saturday night the north koreaens were launched a missile. it was the first such launch

surely meant as a prove vaocati. it was a violation of the u.n. security council. what should america do? i'm joined by ann marie slaughter. she was in the state department during president obama's first term. richard haass held the same position during george w. bush term. he is the author of the book, "a world in disarray." when trump met obama, that first meeting at the white house, it was trump said obama talked to me about something very important and urgent. we learned from reporting it was that north korea was likely to do a ballistic test. now it's happened. why is this one important? they've done several. what does this mean?

>> this test isn't important. it's north korea's version of identification. north korea will get good fluff for ballistic missile technology. it will marry it with the nuclear weapons that they have. if anyone -- >> right now they have the missile. the next thing is to be able to take the nuclear weapon, which they have and put it on the missile. >> right. with the reentry technology and have the missile at significant range. the general estimate is they are a couple of years away. if anyone wanted a world of disarray, this is it. this is a medium size power but it's real power now. it's got all these conventional military arms. now it has this. it's very difficult for the world to contain it. the question is what do we do. we're moving towards the situation where either we get the chinese on board and increase the pressure on them

through sanctions and the chinese are in the unique position to do it or mr. trump is going to have to face a truly fateful decision about whether we're prepared to live with north korea with the capability against us or we're going to use military force one way or another to destroy their nuclear missile capabilities. that would be a truly consequential decision either way. >> to be clear, this is way beyond iran. this country has actually nuclear weapons. now has actual missile technology and could marry the two. the conventional wisdom is the problem is chinese are too worried if they push the north korean s ha koreans hard, the country will collapse. isn't that right? that's why they are hesitant to do much more. >> that's why they're he has tant --

hesitant, but i think this is a bigger deal that richard does. we knew they would challenge trump soon. japan and the united states together. what's important here is are two things. one, secretary clinton called for a tougher north korea policy. there's a tougher policy. we can't impose much more personal sanctions that strike at the heart of the actual north korea regime. china doesn't want us to do that. it has been effective. the question is whether trump will use this to get a tougher policy but equally important this is our first chance to see what happens when trump has said not going to happen. he's going to escalate this. they're likely to escalate. we're either going to see a kind of war of words and diplomatic solution or we could see something that really is more of a dangerous kind of escalation and it's not quite clear what trump will do. >> first of all, you don't think it's a bigger problem. i think this is the biggest national security problem facing

the united states. >> you said it was station identification. >> the missile test. it's the biggest national challenge facing us. current policy for several decades, bipartisan, has not worked. we can try to reassure them about the political complexion of a korea peninsula. they kind of like a divided peninsula. we also have to bring japan and south korea on board. >> is it possible we need to do something much more dramatic. do we have to tell them if you push the north koreans and the regime collapses, what they're worried about is a unified korea which has 30,000 american troops, a treaty with the united states and nuclear weapons all on their border. >> most of the need for that

dispydi disappears. you don't need them up against the 38 parallel. we should be committed to a nuclearized korea. there are things we can put on the table with china. >> i got to move on. mike flynn. is he in hot water with these reports that he not only made contact with the russian ambassador, not only talked about potentially lifting sanctions or implied it but seems to have misled the vice president at the time? >> he's clearly in hot water and it's a boon for the democrats who are beating him up. particularly, to know he's talking to the russians saying don't worry about obama's sanctions. thing s can be reviewed. what will happen is more of function of internal white house politics than external politics. this has happened before.

it's impossible to is think the reagan administration wasn't talking to iran over hostages. >> it's misleading the vice president and the american public. >> yes. i think it's a question of who steve bannon would prefer to have in that position, whether or not if you get a replacement that's going to royal white house politics. >> quick thought about, this does prove something strange about russia. trump doesn't like any other foreign country except russia. >> that's the most interesting part of this is why is russia singled out for consistently benign treatment. we have the same u.s. representative at the u.n. taking a rough line towards russia. we're beginning to see here attention between candidate and

president trump. we don't know what the real nature of russia policy will be. >> we'll be back to talk about just that, the trump reversals, when we come back. today's the day! oh look! creepy gloves for my feet. see when i was a kid there was a handle. and a face. this is nice. and does it come in a california king? getting roid rage. hemorrhoid. these are the worst, right? i'm gonna buy them. boom. i'll take them. impulse buy. ommmmmmmmmmm.

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red lobster's lobsterfest is back with 9 irresistible lobster dishes. yeah, it's a lot. try tender lobster lover's dream and see how sweet a lobster dream can be. or pick two delicious lobster tails with new lobster mix and match. the only thing more tempting than one succulent lobster tail, is two. is your mouth watering yet? good. because there's something for everyone, and everyone's invited. so come in today. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me that i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do release its own insulin. trulicity responds when my blood sugar rises. i take it once a week, and it works 24/7. it comes in an easy-to-use pen. and i may even lose a little weight.

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if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar numbers with a non-insulin option, click to activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. we're back with richard haass and anne marie slaughter. when trump was a candidate, he said he's going to tear up the iran deal, he's going to move the embassy to jerusalem. do you think he read the article? >> i think it's a better chance he read the article than read my

back. it's good news. this is good news. it's the difference between c campaigning and governing. the fact he didn't do these three things or some other things that would have added to a pretty full inbox. the fact that he hasn't added to it by taking these policies, we just talked about north korea for ten minutes. i'm relieved to see some of these cases donald trump is not making good on his campaign utterances. >> the taiwan one strikes me as an odd one. he makes the overture to taiwan and everyone said maybe this is the brilliant negotiator. he gives it up entirely without getting anything in return. the pimplication was he was goig to get something on trade, on jobs. the chinese just said no.

there will be no contact betwin reverses on this and he did. >> the narrative between his tweets and his statements and what happens, is gap is widening. he's assuming people won't note what's happening, at least the people to whom he is tweeting. he lost that round. china said nothing. he needs to talk to china. he needed to talk to china before prime minister abe came. that's a big issue with our relations with japan. i agree with richard that the people who said nope, he's going to run one way and govern another, thus far, that looks like what's happening. >> part of it is the reassertion of the departments. white house gets staffed first. the departments are getting staffed later. initially the white house makes all these announcements. i'm still struck by the fact that the state department doesn't have a deputy. the defense department doesn't

have a deputy. what are you hearing about the disarray? >> it isn't the trump administration yet when it comes to national security or foreign policy. i'm not sure how much this is the push back of the departments because they don't really exist. he's tauki intalking to foreign. he's talking to the henry kissingers of the world. i think he's getting a sense of realism. when you campaign you can choose every issue in isolation. you can campaign in poetry but now you have to govern in prose. part of that is seeing the connection. i think reality is coming to this administration and they are realizing they can't do everything they said they wanted even though it resonated well during the election. >> i think the muslim ban woke up general kelly and rex tillerson and general mattis as wait a minute, that was very badly handled. i think there are stories that

general kelly said i don't report to steve bannon. i report to the president. at least they were woken up on one to one. not the department. i agree there's no administration, but it's hard to believe they're not weighing in as cabinet ministers. >> on the travel ban, i assume this must have complicated things with the iraqi government considerably. >> iraqi government now and future. how will we get people to work with us if we make pledges that we will take care of them if they get threatened and we don't. this deals with iraq. it deals with the entire business of american ill te intelligence. we have got to make good on our word or the kinds of things that mr. trump promoted here will not make us safer. above and beyond the legal arguments, which i can't make about the travel bans, there's a security argument here. we have got to be good to those who put their lives on the line to help americans. >> final thoughts. >> the other thing is we're

handing absolute gift to terrorist recruiters. all you have to do is point to muslims can't enter the united stat states. we're all terrorists. you' you're feeding the isis narrative. >> thank you both very much. we'll be back to discuss what richard said he was not competent to discuss. what about the legality of the travel ban. i'll talk to two of the country's leading experts, laurence tribe and michael mukasey joins me to talk about what happens next. ... it could . it's time to shake things up. with the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases. seriously, think of all the things you buy. great...is this why you asked me to coffee? well yeah... but also to catch-up. what's in your wallet?

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see you in court. the security of our nation is at stake. that was president trump's tweet on thursday after a three-judge panel from the 9th circuit court ruled against reinstating the travel ban. the white house has given indications it won't immediately appeal to the supreme court. the ban and the panel's decision have come under some criticism. why? joining me here in new york is michael mukasey. from outside boston, laurence

tribe joins us. he's a professor of constitutional law at harvard. he received tenure there at the astonishing age of 30 and has argued 35 cases before the supreme court. laurence tribe, let me ask you, summarize the decision. what can we make of it? >> the 9th circuit quite carefully and unanimously held that the decision of the district court that put the ban on hold until full hearing could be held and until serious legal flaws could be examined, that decision essentially was a defeat for the administration and a victory for the rule of law because the administration, after issuing a ban that was a thinly disguised form of religious discrimination and offering justifications for it that just didn't pan out in the

hearing before the 9th circuit was sending a signal to muslims all over the world and the united states that they are not welcome here. as your guests in the last segment indicated, far from protecting us from terror. that made it harder for us to work with people in countries like iraq and became essentially an advertisement for isis recruiting. i think we're much better off now that that ban has been stayed and is not going to quickly be reinstated. >> let me ask you on the specific question, all that may be unwise. why is it unconstitutional? why does the president not have the authority to do something that might be bad foreign policy? >> well, of course, what makes it unconstitutional is not that it's bad foreign policy, that wouldn't suffice. it's the first amendment to the u.s. constitution that says the

government cannot draw religious lines. this was a religious line if there was one. their argument that not all muslims are being excluded and discriminated against is like saying if only a few jews are the subject of a ban that only hits jews then it's perfectly all right. there's still some who aren't being hurt. in fact, the u.s. supreme court, in a case from kentucky in 2005 made clear that in judging whether something is a form of religious gerrymandering, you look not only at the people who are favored like in section five of this ban, the christian minorities of these countries are favored but you also look at the content, the history, the statements made surrounding the ban. this couldn't be an easier case from that perspective.

donald trump campaigned on an anti-muslim slogan. having been told he couldn't leave all muslims out, he asked rudy giuliani to put lipstick on the pig and what we end up with is still a pig. >> michael mukasey, what do you make of that decision? >> it was wrong on just about every count that it decided. starting with giving standing to the states of washington and minnesota to represent the quote rights of people who have no rights. that is aliens overseas who have no connection with this country. what the 9th circuit said if is states, universities made arrangements with students or lecturers to come here then they had a third party right to defend the rights of those people. that assume the people have a right to come here in the first place. the universities cannot confer rights upon aliens and there was

no right that was conferred here. it may be that lawful permanent residents have a right to be here and that visa holders have a right to be here. those could have been carved out. the 9th circuit refused to do that. as far as whether the decision was properly based, there's a statute that defines the president's authority. not only was it not distinguished, it wasn't discussed or mentioned. when ever the president finds any class of aliens into the united states would be detrimental, he made by proclamation that he shall suspend the entry. >> what about the 1965 immigration and naturalization act that says you cannot discriminate on people on the basis of national origin?

>> it's entirely consistent with that. this was not a discrimination on national origin. this was a discrimination on the basis of countries that are failed states. >> isn't that national origin? >> no. it's not a blanket ban. what it bans is discrimination, ie, drawing a distinction that has no basis in fact. that's perfectly permissible. >> you think the decision was wrong and it would be reversed by the supreme court? >> that's a whole different matter. as i understand it, what they're doing now is redrafting the statute to carve out lawful permanent residents and visa holders. i don't know that's precisely what they're doing but there's talk of redrafting the order and going back. either in a case out of this circuit or out of another circuit where the decision went

the other way or other circuits where it might go the other way. >> when we come back, we'll talk about exactly this. what happens next and what happens in a new supreme court with one new member. boost it's about moving forward not back. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up thinking up living up. it's being in motion... in body in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition. it's intelligent nutrition.

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or have flulike symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. we're back with michael mukasey and laurence tribe. larry, let me ask you, michael mukasey says whatever you think of the decision, and i should point out michael had written an article against a muslim ban during the campaign. it's clear that this is a core authority that the president has. this is foreign policy. courts don't have a role. >> courts do have a role. they exercised it 17 times it, at least, in their history. although i represent the former attorney general, he was wrong on every count. he said that the 9th circuit didn't refer to the statutory authority. it did. it cited it on page 4.

statute is are subordinate to the constitution. the attorney general said not one record to respond to the arguments that have been made and i repeated earlier about why this is a form of religious discrimination. his idea that the states don't have standing is kind of funny because i think he was in favor of texas having standing to attack president obama's immigration order even though it's only injury was having to pay for some driver's licenses. i think he's wrong in every respect. he was a better attorney general than he is a constitutional lawyer. >> michael mukasey, talk about this issue that larry mentioned which is if you have all this surrounding literature, trump speeches, the original muslim ban, the supreme court has in the past, as i understand it, it has said that's all relevant because we're trying to figure

out whether the intent here is discriminated on the basis of religion. >> the rhetoric that was quoted from mr. trump was what he was talking about is protecting the country against terrorists attacks. he was not talking about the practice of islam but rather about an extreme version of islam. it was in his mind, a safety issue, not a religious issue. the fact is they chose only states that were failed states that had been listed in a list of states -- >> iran is not failed state. it's a highly competent -- our problem with iran is the exact opposite. it functions very aggressively. >> that makes my point. they have terrorist designs on the united states. they say the united states is the great satan that they want to destroy. those are the kind of states -- >> you can't have it both ways. there's no iranian who has committed a terrorist act in the united states. >> iran has financed terrorism.

>> tell me about the legal issue. is he right that if you can s w show -- the ban was against all muslims. not just extreme or radical. >> in the campaign, as you pointed out, i wrote an article saying i thought that was ridiculous. >> is that evidence this was -- >> no, it's not. what he was talking about is something directed at the safety of the united states to prevent terrorist attacks. he was not talking about discriminating against the muslim religion. i think that's pretty clear even in the extreme statements he made during the campaign. the notion that somehow this is the business of courts is just false. the 9th circuit said there's no precedent to support the claim this was not reviewable which runs contrary to the fundamental structure of our constitutional democracy. you can practically see the announcer break out in goose bumps when they read that.

there's plenty of authority against that including justice jackson who said these decisions are given to the political branches of government, congress and the president, that judges are not equipped to do it and have no authority to do it. >> we have to leave it on that. up next, donald trump and benjamin netanyahu, when they meet this week will talk about the u.s. embassy and its location. i'll have that goat cheese garden salad. that gentleman got the last one. sir, you give me that salad and i will pay for your movie and one snack box. can i keep the walnuts? sold. but i get to pick your movie. can i pick the genre? yes, but it has to be a comedy. a little cash back on the side. with the blue cash everyday card from american express, you get cash back on purchases with no annual fee. throw. it's more than cash back. it's backed by the service and security of american express. it's more than cash back. why pause a spontaneous moment?

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additional fees. tacked on taxes. come on! with t-mobile one, taxes and fees are now included! get 4 lines of unlimited lte data for 40 bucks each. that's right - all unlimited. all in! and now, for a limited time save more than you pay in taxes on all smartphones. so switch to t-mobile and save hundreds vs. the other guys. it's better than a tax holiday! and it's only at t-mobile. and this is they like lobster party.y, red lobster's lobsterfest is back with 9 irresistible lobster dishes. yeah, it's a lot. try tender lobster lover's dream and see how sweet a lobster dream can be. or pick two delicious lobster tails with new lobster mix and match. the only thing more tempting than one succulent lobster tail, is two. is your mouth watering yet? good. because there's something for everyone, and everyone's invited. so come in today.

on wednesday, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will meet with donald trump in washington. surely they will discuss the trump's intention to move the embassy to jerusalem. in 1949, negotiators drew a

green line that divided ja r ed jerusalem in two. it was so divided in 1967 when israel began to occupy the east. they declare ed jerusalem to be the capital of the country. they declared actions illegal and calling for embassies to be withdrawn. there are currently no embassies in that holy city, zero. who would happen in the arab world if the united states moved to jerusalem. so, what would happen? >> in the arab world it would be a huge embarrassment for allies of the united states and israel countries like jordan. countries that have close but covert relationships with

israel. the moving of the embassy would be seen in the arab world has a very unfriendly act. >> why? explain to somebody why would, it is israel's capital. aren't israelis right in saying this has been our functioning capital. every other country in the world functions capital where the embassies are. >> even before the bit you mentioned in the lead up to this, in 1947 united nations when it gave legitimacy to the idea of the a jewish state, an arab state said they had to be a separate entity. other countries have said until there's a final status resolution of the question of jerusalem, nobody should change the status including moving embassies there, building settlements. there's 200,000 living in east jerusalem today. in the eyes of the world are

illegal until they come to terms over jerusalem. >> the idea was, correct me if i'm wrong, jerusalem is special because they have significant religious reasons. it should have some kind of status and in the context of the two-state solution, you don't want to create facts on the ground that make it impossible to have negotiations. >> exactly. which prejudice the outcome. american administrations up until this one have always resisted that. they haven't done much about it but they've said we don't accept these things. >> arab kun tricountries are po. what are they going to do? >> it would destabilize a country like jordan.

they really believe the country rolls over. >> there could be street protests. >> there could be instability in the occupied territories that would worry the jordanians. that always concerns them. it should concern the israelis. they are not in favor of this because they know it will create trouble. >> you think netanyahu might come to trump and say cool it? >> possibly. i'm sure the state department that understands all these ramifications have been quietly trying to tell the president and his advisors, take it easy on this. >> we had on the program last week talk about his new book. he sate the boycott divestment sanctions movement against israel is prevalent on come college campuses. it's a very sharp response from many of our viewers, including you. you e-mailed me.

i want you to explain what it is you objected to in what he said. >> first of all, it's grotesque. when there is an increase in -- we had in the subways here that people are talking about boycott divesting as anti-semitic. many people that support it are jewish so they are self-hating. the boston tea party was a boycott. selma, montgomery. every major campaign in civil rights involved boycott. the south african freedom struggle used it. why are the minutpalestiniaminp allowed to do this. >> there's nothing that says israel has to end the occupation.

israel has to treat its arab ste citizens equally and they have to give those who lost their homes, whose homes were stolen in 1948 the right to amphetamine those homes back. there's nothing anti-semitic in that. property rights, what's anti-semitic about property rights. i think when you are defending the indefensible as many extreme supporters of israel are doing, you have no alternative but to result to smears and slurs against the people are making a very, very strong case that the united states has not done, the international community has not done what it said it wanted to do in terms of stopping occupational settlement, land theft and it's up to ordinary people to try to push their government and push people with a moral conscious to put pressure on israel so it stops all of these violations of human

rights and civil and property rights. >> always a pleasure to have you on. if you want to see the interview referenced last week you can go to cnn.com/fareed. next, why yemen, one of the poorest nations in the world engulfed in a civil war has become such a crucial target in the u.s. war against terror. when i first started working with capital one, my dad called them up and asked for "the jennifer garner card" which is such a dad thing to do. after he gave his name the woman from capital one said "mr. garner, are you related to jennifer?" kind of joking with him. and my dad was so proud to tell her, "as a matter of fact, she is my middle daughter". so now dad has the venture card, he's earning his double miles, and he made a friend at the company. can i say it? go ahead! what's in your wallet? nice job dad.

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any time you help a customer, it's a really good feeling. it's especially so when it's a customer that's doing such good and important work for the environment. together, we're building a better california. according to a new price water house coopers report, china will become the largest committ economy in the world in less than 15 years. it brings me to my question of the week. by 2050, of the five largest economies in the world, how many are projected to be in asia? is it two, three, four or all five. stay tuned and we'll kel you te the correct answer. this book of the week is one stephen bannon is recommending all in the white house read. it's a brilliant critique of

america's stumble into vietnam. bannon, like many others, believers the book is a case against the brainy experts as the title implies. actually, if you read it, you'll see it's an indictment of the arrogance of america's top officials who are blinded by anti-communist ideology and ignored and dismissed the advice of real experts, historians, scholars who knew vietnam, china, the region, culture and argued against america's policy from the start. a classic of journalism. now for the last look. you are listening to the voice of the leader of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. in this recording released last week, he says the new fool of the white house received a painful slap across his face. ridiculing president trump over the recent u.s. raid on an al qaeda compound in yemen.

the pentagon claimed he was never the target but an official said targeting him one was one of the operations. eric and david of the new york times described it as a case where almost everything that could go wrong did. this is not the only recent action in yemen. the u.s. has ramped up activity over this war torn nation in recent years. as many as 174 aqap members were killed in strikes la year according to the long war journal. that's up from 97 the previous year. there were 38 strikes in 2016 up from 22 in 2015. there's been five strikes already this year as the new york times points out. what is going on? for one, al qaeda and the

arabian peninsula is considered to be the most capable al qaeda. while isis is target number one glow ba gl globally, a resur gent al qaeda would be troublesome. yemen was included in the trump travel ban increasing tensions with that country. it will be hard to fight isis or al qaeda without friends on the ground in that region. the correct to the gps challenge question is c. when ranked by projected gdp, the united states is expected to be the second largest economy after china in 2050. pricewater house coopers points out when examining gdp, india will surpass the united states by 2040 to become the world's

second biggest economy. overall the report says the world economy could more than double in size by 2042 mainly due to netechnology driven products. thanks for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. it's time for "reliable sources." this is our weekly look at the story behind the story. how the media really works. how the news gets made. this hour president trump has a new tv in the presidential dining room. are his immediamedia habits chat all? they talked about cable news, new york times and much more and he has the details coming up. plus, columnist andrew sullivan breaking his silence saying this is an emergency situation. a must see interview later this hour. : we' first, with so