sleeping when glass fell on them next door. amazingly, they were not hurt. >> sounded like a bomb went off. we came running out and my neighbors across the street were yelling and i ran down the street. >> reports from the neighbors indicated there were firearm and ammunition in the structure. yes, we are aware of that. the explosion were so powerful, the home next door had to be condemned because of significant con construct ral damage. >> that's it for us. we'll see you again at 10:00. i am michael smerconish coming

to you from philadelphia where we welcome our viewers from the united states and around the world. president trump and the white house still promoting the uns n unstan -- does president obama have a case for liable? where is president trump ongoing battle of the intelligence committee heading? general michael hayden is here. plus, we live in this great political uncertainty but the stock market is at an all time high. what explains the disconnect? john c. bogle, is here to explain. >> what does sean spicer's boss thin thinks? >> march madness is in full

spring. how many of the players will actually graduate. i am going to talk to someone who built the brackets based on academics. look who wins. it is two weeks. on a march 4th, president trump sent tweets that's been viewed around the world including this claim. "terrible, just found out that obama had my "wires tapped" in trump tower just before the victory." . >> how low has president obama go to tap my phone. this is nixon/watergate, bad or sick guy. >> the combinations of those tweets is potentially defamatory. not that i expect president obama to file suits.

lets gain this out. if president obama were to sue trump, trump is a public figure and obama's burden of proof is actual fallace. it would be wrereckless for president trump if president trump knew it was to be false or if he was reckless in making the assertion. what evidence or witnesses might trump present on his own behalf to establish truth? not devin nunes. he says he does not think there was an actual tap of trump tower nor james clapper, no warns were issued on his watch for such a wiretap. fbi director james comey will s testify on monday come monday.

he was so upset that he wanted the justice department to refute it. trump cannot count on the britts whose theresa may -- the claim in tapping trump is "ridiculous." >> on thursday, sean spicer, spent nine minutes quoting a series of sources of the government having surveilled president trump or people close to it. none of that is coming into evidence of hypotheticals. it is all hearsay. it is all run reliable and double or triple at best. >> many relied on anonymous sources of the very kind that president trump relied on again. trump relied on fox with no firsthand information.

fox news itself says they cannot substantiate the judge. >> so, what's the verdict? the verdict is that president obama appears to have a strong claim for libel. he can establish every element of the tort. what are president obama's damages, he's entitled to punitive damage. punitive damage are damages designed to hurt and punish and detour. >> of course, it all depends on the composition of the jury because to the 46% that got trump elected, this is just noise. so what's going to happen next with president trump's ongoing battle with the intel community? joining me now the former director of cia and nsa, michael

hayden. >> "the age of terror" is now in ba paper back. is it conceivable to you? the british would get a telephone call from an american president who says please tap the phone or the office space of someone running for president and they would cooperate. >> michael, i am trying to suppress a laugh here. that's so far from reality and the relationship we have within the five communities. we are really close. >> it is an integrated operation but one absolute rule is no one can ask a partner to do that, which is illegal for himself or that which is illegal for the partner. >> that's never been done in the five alliances. >> have the nsa to your

knowledge, i have to ask this to close the loop, ever been asked in a similar type of circumstances by one of our allies. >> michael, that's way up there in terms of seriousness, i am telling you we cannot do anything for an ally that the ally itself is not allowed to do. and so no, you cannot export or offshore these requirements because the law prevents you from doing them. this is done by the rule of law. i get it. i get it is espionage and secret and it gets to be mysterious. you are seeing some things and you are reporting all of what you are reflected. we get tight over site from our congress if they ever got to this. my god, it is a nuclear de detonation.

>> where is it going and what concerns general michael hayden the most? >> we are embarrassed, one, and angered our most important allies in the world. that's what i am looking at in the world is the collateral damage. yes, by the way, i am sure spirits are not really that high out of fort meade and the national security agency right now. your core question, where is this going? interview with the president tucker carlson is quite interesting. some folks said he was doubling down on his claim. i don't think so. he was picking up his chips and going to another table. he was backing away from the literal accusation that president obama had done which you reported on ordered the wiretapping of trump in trump tower. i think where this is going, michael, i think this is the

live line, the administration is hoping they can grab onto is something that we call accide incidental collection. i can explain you and viewers. >> do it. >> if we are up against the legitimate intelligence target, lets say we are up against targeting and you want us to do this, a russian, who's involved or how about sanction busting. we are on that target. this happens fairly routinely. if that target now gets involved in a communication to from or even about a u.s. person, we are allowed to continue to cover the target. we just have to protect the u.s. person privacy. we do what's called minimize the information. we would say of an extented

conversation with a named u.s. person so on and so forth said this and we keep the u.s. identity minimized unavailable to our customers, unless, of course, the name u.s. identity is critical to the intelligence. lets say, for example, they were arranging an illegal transfer fund. we would unmask the identity so we have a full picture of the intelligence. we are just targeting the foreigners. this is called incidental collection and the unmasking of u.s. identity is not trump, blu bush, it goes back 40 years to the reforms and intelligence communities in the 1970s. i suspect if there is any example of a u.s. identity being unmasked that has any

relationship to the trump campaign or trump tower, again, michael, very normal and correct and legal. i think at that point, the white house goes, ah-ha, i told you so. i think this is where it is going. >> do i understand general hayden to be predicting that perhaps the next step of this is that the trump white house seeks to criminalize the incidental collection of u.s. intelligence. is that what you are saying? >> mischaracterized and criminalized, devin nunes and adam schiff within the last 36 hours have asked the american intelligence community, was there any incidental collection, who requested the unmasking. i think we go to that point again. at the end of the day, it will be mischaracterized and there

will be an attempt to claim that's some sort of violation. what would be the impact of that on the intelligence community? >> anybody who knows the goodness would go yeah, that's how this is always done. this is actually a very good way to do our job and protect american privacy. so it would be just kind of the wheels of the process going forward. by the way, michael. that procedure, i just laid out for you is approved by the attorney general, reviewed annually and those procedures are annually laid out to the intelligence committee who understands them and remember that masking thing that i did, michael is so routine that's done in the agency. you don't need to go to the white house or the court. it does not come to the director.

it is done by the analysts in closed operation with nsa lawyer who knows it best. >> imagine that you are still running the cia or still running the nsa, and president trump calls general hayden and says, general, i need to know, was the trump tower surveilled? could you answer that question? >> of course, i could. whether there is any incidental collection, i can answer that question, too. i have. this is years ago when we were trying to get an ambassador mr. bolton confirmed to the united nations. he asked for some unmasking of identities and some members of congress were rendering this offense. i explained the process and indicated that these requests from ambassador bolton were quite appropriate and innocent. we are not out of the norms here.

it is new to a lot of people. it is not new itself. >> he often watches us. thank you for that mr. president, we like you watching. if he's watching right now at mar-a-lago, he can pick up that phone this minute and called the cia or the nsa and ask the question, was trump tower surveilled and he will get ans answer. >> all he needed to do was roll over and punch that button on the red switch and get these guys down here for lunch and he would have been satisfied and we would have been done with this. >> thank you, general, we appreciate this. >> thank you, tweet m me @smerconish. >> maybe you want to ask why

does he not want to make that call? maybe he knows the answer. >> tweet me something. to 46% who got trump elected, you and the media are just noise. >> i just presented to you as a trial lawyer how this issue would be litigated if that were to be the case. what a shame if a certain number among us don't care ant tbout t facts. >> up next, he had hit a new low on thursday. would spicer's boss agree in chris is here to discuss. and a team of experienced traders ready to help you if you need it. ♪ ♪ it's like having the power of a trading floor, wherever you are. it's your trade. ♪ ♪ e*trade. ♪ ♪

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cnn on april the 3rd. before the break, i think i said shawn hannity had the worse week in washington. >> yeah. >> his week was not so great either. you said sean spicer was not so hot. would his boss agree? >> first of all, thank you for the kind wishes. it is wonderful to be on tv with you. no, his boss would not agree and that's the problem here which is there is an audience of one on trump's watches. what you saw on thursday is something that donald trump applauded. the problem is by thursday night, the u.s. was apologizing to britain for saying as general hayden made clear saying something that's not true. well, maybe britain was involved in the wiretapping of trump tower. the problem here is yes, i think sean spicer in donald trump's eye did a good job but in terms

of presenting facts and using the words that matter when you are standing behind the podium as a spokesperson of the united states, not just of donald trump but of the united states, i think it is a dangerous precedent to cite columnists and people who are -- these are not intelligence professionals. these are people writing things. you cherry pick what you want to make a case that pleases our boss, sure. this is the united states and our well being in the world we are talking about. >> i vacillate, he's an awfully nice guy and i dealt with him throughout the course of the campaign, sean spicer, came on the program with regularly. i found myself sailing he's a nice guy and he's got a tough job. >> virtually impossible. >> impossible. >> chris, yeah, you cannot spin it this way and rely on unsubstantial charges. where do you come down on this

calculation? >> yeah, i have known sean on and off for 20 years -- i am getting old. i agree with you. >> some level to your point doing his job, the problem here though is that he knew what he was getting into it and it is not as though you accept to be secretary of donald trump, you are not clear of what it means. you know your boss is an -- you know it is a difficult job. you know that you are going to walk a fine line between being honest and as transparent as you can be a press core that's a constituency of yours as well in terms of making sure their job is not easy but you are doing what you can to help them do their job day in and day out and with a president who's fundamentally advesarial to that

group of people. >> i would say anyone that's in press relation for a long time, this is the top of the mountains. >> white house press secoretary is the big job. those are high profile jobs. sean is in an incredible hard position. you cannot say things that are not true and we have to write it down. that's not our jobs. >> president trump this week appearing with tucker carlson i think took a step backward. lets watch the tape then chris cillizza can comment. >> you are the president. frankly, we have a lot right

now. if you watch the brett bare and what he's saying and how he mentioned the word "wiretap," you can feel confident to mention the name. if you take a look at some of the things written about wiretapping and eavesdropping. when i say that, wiretapping is pretty old fashion stuff. that covers surveillance and many other things. nobody ever talks about the feedback that it is in quotes. wiretap covers a lot of different things. i think you will find some interesting items coming to the fore front over the next two weeks. >> lets be fair to the president. there is no evidence of collusion. there is been a lot of speculation and rumor and inuendo. >> react to what you just heard. >> you are 100% right at that.

>> of course, he was bought and paid for by russia. >> well, you know, jeff sessions taking meetings with the russian prime ministers, it is not good but it is not evidence to your point that this is a president who has bought and sold by russia. >> the thing that's difficult with donald trump is an unwillingness ever to admit any weakness or any missed statements. it seems clear that the tweet on a saturday morning, i remember it well were not the results of intelligence information he got from the intelligence community. it appears 99.9% certain that this is what we thought initially which is a right arc call. >> there is no evidence -- he's

reporting on that. that's not evidence. that's just like me quoting you, it is virtous for donald trump but it is not fact. one of the hardest things for reporters dealing with donald trump is he seems to view everything, a tweet he saw or an article or what the site, a report on that article, no matter what the site as all equal evidence in terms of to use to make his point. >> politicians do cherry pick information here or there everywhere to make the case but never to the extent that trump is doing or cnn and washington post is on equal part of people you are not intelligence community reporters, just people

tweeting things, that's not evidence that a president of a united states should cite as proof positive that will of course, of wiretap. >> brett himself would say that's not good enough evidence. chris cillizza, we are elated that you are coming to cnn. thank you very much for coming. >> keep your tweets coming to me at @smerconish. >> spicer is not a victim, he's a volunteer. >> he's got a brutal job but i am not excusing making assertions that cannot be substantiated. >> warren buffet calls him the person who has done the most for american's investors.

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. the dow jones regional average broke the first time ever. what explains this disconnect between our political and financial environment. i sat down with john bogle in his recent letter for hathaway, warren buffet says this.

"if a statue is every erected to honor the person who has done the most for american investors, the hands down choice should be jack bogle." >> today vanguard oversees 3.5 trilli $3.5 trillion. he has ordinary reasearned manyr his time. >> institutional investors given him a lifetime achievement award. i spoke to him in his office outside of philadelphia. >> we live in a climate of political uncertainty and someone would say stability and the mark is on fire. help me understand that disconnect. >> there is a lot of instability and calling into question for something that we did not face in the united states, we lost

the ability to go in ourselves. this goes back a couple of congresses and this is not the first time that it happens. it seems to be getting worse and that's the biggest risk of all. in addition, i worried about the division of wealth in the country, in equality, that in a long run is bad for our economy and society. why is the market doing so well? i think the answer to that is it is driven by near term hopes for big budget cuts and tax cuts and corporate tax cuts which will automatically raise corporate earnings and the market likes that and there is a feeling of bullishness in the air. in the long run, believe me, it is 100% economic in this market and 0% emotions. the record of the last century shows that. and it revert to the mean s

and it revert to the mean to t the market gets ahead of the economy and backup. >> the economy kind of goes like this. the market goes like this. >> so it is emotions, positive emotions of a few that i mentioned. >> fed chairwoman janet yellen says the economy is doing well. she does not share the optimism that economic growth is gaining speed. did she strike the right balance? >> yes, she did. >> we don't see that we can have 4% growth is what they are talking about and our gdp, our gross domestic product of 2 or 2.5%. we'll be growing but not the rate that we have been accustomed to in the past. >> how do you evaluate president trump thus far? >> i am not sure he's quite comfortable of what he's doing

to be honest with you. >> presidency by tweets, maybe one or two -- they have never been tried before. these comparisons i read in the papers today, president trump and president andrew jackson, they're a little farfetched. >> a number of them seems associated with this particular president. i don't know if you meant to particularize to him or if you had him in the brain or if you are reading too much to it. >> i don't think presidents can control the economy. they may think they can and if it does well, they'll take the credit. if it does badly, it is someone else's fault. i see they take the applause for a full market. >> what worries you most of the future of the country? >> i worry about political

disunity. i worry about us -- this may sound funny to you, i worried about us becoming too much of a democracy. the people that knew more could help more and had more of a public spirit and educated. >> there is post in various competition and now, it is more like a democracy where the people speak and sometimes that can be very unforge na it. unfortunate. the good example of this thing of this so called brexit. that's a purely democratic thing. >> you think that was a mistake? >> i think it is a terrible mistake. price should be paid for decades and not even longer. a lot of dominos false got one that's nowtyi thinking it is

leaving and united kingdom won't be it anymore. >> they get the same votes. i am not saying they were voted differently. you want more informed electric and aware of electric and an electorate that's concerned with society. successors up to today are mostly i think we are troubling away of the basic values of the country. >> you remiend me of the annual letter where you were praised from warren buffet. he made an vesting observation, they were not harder, the genius is the system they crafted when they got here. >> yes. >> that's the genius of capitolism, right?

>> right, there is a sentence that you may recognize from our founding fathers. >> they were geniuses created by a system that could be run by idiots. >> it is a system that creates wealth but does not distributed sometimes in the most eck quidable fashion. >> it is the best way to run an economy, just have the marketplace do it. sometimes you don't like the results. there is no we question. we tried commied communism and l capitali capitalism. that'll be the way that people have to come out. >> 87 and nearly 88? >> nearly 88. recently celebrated the 20th

anniversary of a heart transplant. what's the secret? >> well, the secret is hard work -- all time. i am just throwing myself out in to my life and career, hoping to be fair to my family and two at the seame time, i love what i a doing and i am still able to do it. the spirit is definitely willing and the flesh is getting a little bit weak but as long as you put yourself together and i say to people, their ambitious, what's the secret in? and i say get out of bed in the morning. if you don't do that, not much is going to happen. what a privilege that was for me. by the way, bogle, would say stay the course. >> there is more because the

full uncut conversation is right now posted on our website, cnn.com/shows/smerconish. keep tweeting me, i will continue to read some during the course of the program. next, march madness is upon us. what would the ncaa brackets looked like if we had more college graduation rates. i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24.

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tournament but the team only graduated 8% of its players over a six year span. what would the brackets looked like if we awarded programs that graduate students and pay attention to class room's 'attendan 'attendance. that's the thesis put forth by larry clat. march madness for the socially conscious. he provides the bracket of what happens of frasavoring teams of high graduation rates. here to discuss,. why did you do this larry? >> well, because michael, i started to feel as a sport fan,

and especially watching that connecticut run graduated of 8% of their players. they are professionals who are apprenticing for a year. we thought it would be fun to look at what a bracket would look like if graduation rates were taken into account. so we published it. >> here is the big bracket and we'll iso on your final four. >> some familiar names and some unfamiliar names. walk me through the outcome. >> i am not going to win any pools with this bracket. [ laughter ] >> two of my picks of 100% graduate rates lost in the first round. that was bucknell.

i am the only person in america to pick bucknell to win it all. duke is still alive and my favorite team villanueva. there are twelve teams in this tournament that graduated of 100% of their players. >> the good news is, it can be done. look, duke and kansas, have great basketball programs. you referenced vilanova. there are schools out there committed to academic excellence and they are playing great hoops. >> that's right. >> these things do not have to be mutually exclusive. it requires a coach to get it. they have to be apart of the college experience and generally they have to stay for the four years for that college

experience. it is possible to do this and do it right. that's i, as a port fan want to root for. >> jay wright has had the most dominate basketball team in the nation for the last three years, what's his secret sauce? >> the secret sauce is he's emotionally intelligent. he's straight up with his players. he's vulnerable with his players. he's not an x's and o's guy. >> he told me when you see the huddle in the diagram, that does not mean anything. it is filler. what he does is teach like a glorified high school gym coach. he's got a zen master on the bench with him. he's a 21st century kind of

coach. >> proof is sometimes stranger than fiction. >> a couple years ago, lee high defeated duke. one of those moments i know right where i was when i was watching. unfortunately, it is not your year or not the year for the o person who picked them to go all the way. >> good work. thank you for being here. >> thanks, man. >> continue to tweet me at smerconish. hit me with another one. let's see what we've got. less us see. eric, what would the world look like if academics were more popular than professional sports? far more interesting but less entertaining. and to larry's point, we can have both. i mean, that's why i was so eager to have him on the program. keep tweeting me at smerconish. we'll get to some more in just a second.

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breaking news. as many of you have tweeted at me, the bucknel mascot we now with report is bucky the bison. what else came in? hit me with it. smerconish, clapper lied under oath at a congressional hearing. why is he a credible source? harry, when i heard clapper's testimony, i was listening at 11:00. hit me with another one. you spinal tap fans know exactly what i'm saying. have you closed your eyes while

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