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tv   Reliable Sources  CNN  March 26, 2017 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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integration and diversity. in other words, vladmir putin understands us very well. the question is do we, does donald trump really understand him? thnchts is o this is our weekly look at the story behind the story. today's show is coming to you live from los angeles. we're talking about the political world that's stranger than fiction. the truth dead? i'll talk to nancy gibbs about her latest cover story and about when to say something is a lie. the president trump making podcasts great again?
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the differences in the way they were covered on cable news. first, what happens when a country, no, let's change that. what happens to a country when a leader's words are worthless. when their promises are toothless or utterly useless. is that where we now with president trump? from the collapse of the republican plan to repeal and replace obamacare, something that trump said he would do on day one to the explosive fbi announcement there's an ongoing investigation into possible links between russia and the trump campaign. the common thread here is a white house with a credibility problem that's getting worse and worse and worse. the washington post has been counting all of trump's misleading or false claims since january 20th. the number is 317 so far. the wall street journal said trump's falsehood are eroding
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public trust at home and abroad. he's at risk of being viewed as a fake president. trump's words do have power. power to inspire and influence and power to intimidate and incite fear. journalists and lawmakers and voters can't take him at his word. what happens when the president's words lose all meaning? joining me now, two white house experts. welcome to you both. carl, i want to get your reaction to what happened in the house on friday. is it yet another blow to the president? >> it's more than a blow because in addition to the line that that surrounded his presidency and his lying which republicans even have now become terribly
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alarmed at, it shows the level of his incompetence which is something that was known to many people who had done business with the trump organization. it was known to people who worked on the apprentice with him when he would show up without having done his homework, having no idea where the script was going. there's nothing new about this. he's not a competent leader. on top of that, as you have indicated at the beginning of this program, his presidency is a body guard of lies. that's undermining his presidency at the same time his closest aides are under serious investigation and a possible conspiracy that may extend in some way to himself. >> russia, we'll get to. i'm wondering if this is a challenge for you. when the president says things like this bill is wonderful and it seems like everybody agrees
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whether it's an editorial board or lawmakers or voters. is it harder for you as a reporter to put the president's words in context when they see him worthless. >> it goes back to the barvsicsf journalism and covering the truths and facts and finding out what all sides feel about it. when you look at the end of the day and listen to everyone, it's not adding up to what the president is saying. going back to what you said earlier, monday, if i can remember correctly, i asked sean spicer about this. regaining trust with the president. i asked him something along the lines of how do you change this image of him being viewed as a boy who cries wolf. sean really couldn't give an answer. there's a credibility and trust factor in play with this president. it's not just here at home but abroad with our allies and those who oppose us. >> let me add one thing.
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>> please. >> there's almost an impossibility that trump can regain trust. the reason is that he is someone who has lied at will all of his adult life. lying has been a key element of his advance in business. he's never been known as someone who tells the truth. there's an almost pathological compulsive element to his lying. we see it since he's been president. the notion that he will regain trust at a time when even republicans who want to be loyal to him are questioning whether he is competent and whether he's capable of any kind of truth, it's very doubtful he can retain trust in a way that he can govern effectively. >> back on the trust issue. i'm trying to look at the make up of this president to get in his head. that's what we do as reporters to try to find out who he is. this president, from the time he
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was a young man, up till now as president and a real estate mogul, a casino head, what have you, he's always wanted to have the winning picture. he's never denied anything. he wants to make it seem greater and bigger than what it is and it's not always necessarily the case. there's a trust factor here. people need to look beyond and see where the truth really lies. >> i thought one of the most interesting exchanges was in the white house briefing room talking about paul manafort. spicer was trying to down play the role saying he worked for trump for a limited amount of time. here is what cnn john king said about spicer. take a look. >> i hate to say this but in a sense, just pay no attention to the man at the podium to a degree. i hate to say that. there's a credibility problem in the white house briefing room. >> i thought that was fascinating.
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pay no attention poth mto the m behind the podium. that's impossible for you. >> he's paid to lie. >> i'm not going to say he's paid to lie. he's paid to spin. i saw manafort in a significant role. we have seen him in a significant role. i don't care how long the period was. that knocks his credibility. the statement said he had a limited role. that knocks the credibility of who manafort was and his administration. >> speaking of spinning and lying, i heard you jumping in there. it brings us to russia and this issue about russia during the hearings that we were all watching on monday. you tweeted out saying that all these lawmakers complaining about leaking, you were saying their hypocrites because a lot of them have leaked to you and other reporters in the past.
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is that the difference between spinning and lying? were they lying about that? >> it's not just about leaking. it's about dealing with reporters and disclosing classified information which many of those on the committee have done in the past and it's known to many of the reporters covering those hearings. what is happen ng this presidency is absurd. it's where the trump white house wants the country to go to think the issue here is leaks instead of conduct of the president of the united states and those closest to him in the campaign.
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this is the most presidential shattering investigation that we have had since watergate. there's no question about that. where donald trump wants it to go is away from him and his white house and it's being presented by him and his aids as an issue of leaking. that's a lie as well. yes, there have been and a discussion going on about some incidental intelligence that was collected in which members, foreign sources -- let me try to explain this. it's a little difficult. maybe it's time people get a better idea of what is being claimed. the intelligence community picked up some electronic signals of foreign intelligence operators who they had under investigation, who they surveilled who talked about
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trump's entourage and in their reports, in the intelligence reports there was disclosed some of those discussions about the trump people. at no point was there any suggestion that trump himself was wiretapped as the president of the united states has lied in his assertions about president obama. it's rather complicated subject that he wants us to think is the real issue here. it's as if in leaking the issue in watergate would say the disclosures by deep throat to the washington post rather than the conduct of the president of the united states. it's a red herring. it's a smoke screen and even the republicans recognize that in the house and the senate. long explanation. >> i appreciate the long explanation. i wonder as someone who broke watergate wide open. how does this story end? >> we don't know. it looks like it's going to end
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badly in terms of weakening this president no matter where it goes whether or not he is found to be part of some kind of conspiracy or having had winnwig or unwitting knowledge of illeg illegal conspiratorial acts. there's no question he lied about this investigation and does not want the truth disclosed. that's a big problem. where it goes, it's up to the press to find out what the facts are. it's up to the investigative agencies to find out where the facts are. we do not know where this is going. what is parent is that the house, intelligence committee investigation is becoming farcical in terms of the chairman nunes trying to be a shield for the united states. it's really necessary that there be a special prosecutor and a 9/11 type commission to
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investigate this so the people of the united states can have confidence in their institutions, in the presidency. we're at a critical point here. we also have a new deputy attorney general coming in who would be the worst nightmare imaginable for the trump white house because he is known as a really straight shooter. he's a baltimore u.s. attorney prosecutor. he could be a real nightmare for the trump white house and those under investigation. >> april, last word to you. >> i'm going to say this. this president has still a lot left to be revealed when it comes to truthfulness, when it comes to credibility. some of the reason why many dems are concerned about his claims that he wants to work with them for aca is because they can't trust him. then on top of that, it's just a climate of manic behavior that we've never seen before.
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i talked to someone else from the barack obama administration intelligen intelligence, high ranking, high ranking intelligence official who said this man does not seem like someone who is innocent when it comes to issues of russia and other areas when it comes internationally. we have to look at the unfolding dynamic when it comes to this president about his voracity, what he says about things and who he is. as reporters we continue to cover. we continue to look and ask questions and it's still unfolding. >> not get ahead of ourself. >> it needs to be factual that if there are exonerating factors here, if it turns out that mr. trump is untouched by any kind of conspiratorial actions then he might be able to move on. he needs to keep -- to stop
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keeping us from learning the truth by his obstructionism and deflecting the issues here. >> april, carl, thank you very much. come back soon. >> thanks. when we come back, some of the biggest critics of the health care bill were conservative news outlets. wooem talk about that relationship between conservative media and the republican president, right after this. (vo) this is not a video game. this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now.
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when the american health care act was pulled from the floor on friday, president trump's first calls were to the washington post and new york times. on saturday we saw how trump's alternative reality are sometimes fed by conservative media. check out what he tweeted. he plugged fox's primetime talk show. even by trump standards are blatant call to action. watch judge janine. what was she going to say? there was intrigue all day.
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watch. here is what she said. >> my opening statement. paul ryan needs to step down as speaker of the house. >> wow. was this is a pre-meditated attack. trump and pirro working together to undermine ryan or was it a coincidence? here is the more mundane explanation. fox had the countdown clock on screen. it has been on all morning long promoting the show saying there would be new information. maybe that's all this was. trump seeing a countdown clock, having no idea she would say what she said about ryan. let me bring in two great guests. john, great to see you. dylan, you've been writing about
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this relationship. the breitbaigheitbarts of the we the fiercest critics. >> what you're seeing is the same thing talk place in the house and media. you have a freedom caucus who is willing to stare down the president. willing to appease its base rather than get in line with the president of the united states on the health care legislation and very likely on future legislation. you're seeing the same thing with the right wing media. we anticipated that a lot of those hard line conservative outlets that helped carry trump into office were then going to be with him and have his back. in fact, what they're doing is sticking to their values. they are coming at him from the right. he's also getting pressure from the left. the pressure from the left doesn't seem to be nearly as aggressive as the pressure from the right. what's interesting about that is that fox news, which used to be between mainstream media and the far right is now becoming an outlet that is actually one of trump's greatest defenders in
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primetime because he's catching so much fire from the far right. >> a lot of the coverage from the breitbarts was against paul ryan. >> that was so much steve ban n bannon. he's always had it out for ryan. hard line conservatives. that i have always had it out for paul ryan. the strategy is to use this failure, off load some of the responsibility from president trump, put it squarely on paul ryan. >> what do you think of the pirroe change? >> that's confusion. i think your point is right. we think there's some sort of collusion or conspiracy with trump and fox news. the truth is you're right. he's just watching. he's probably just responding to the news. he's seeing a countdown clock the same way anyone would see
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it. >> were you sensing this conservative backlash to the bill before it would happen on friday? >> part of why working in talk radio is to fun is because you're working in the complaint department of life. when ever people don't like something, you hear about it right away. my listeners didn't like it. i think the conservative media made a mistake. they think if it was killed, the result would be paul ryan would lose the speakership. i don't think that's going to happen. i think they misunderstand who donald trump is and what he stands for. he's a hawk on the border. he's a hawk on crime but outside of that he's a pretty moderate republican. this was a moderate republican bill. i don't think the result from him losing this battle will be that ryan will lose his speakership. i think the result could be he could look to build different coalitions maybe with the
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democrats similar to what arnold schwarzenegger did in california and that was a complete disaster. >> that's right. someone said this morning that the government is controlled by 30 people. the house freedom caucus. i think if you're trump, you are looking to different coalitions. it might be a pipe dream after all the antagonizing you've done of democrats. >> i don't think it can happen with nancy pelosi as the leader. if the democrats wise up and put someone competent in then you could have really good coalitions built. >> have you found your audience wants something different from you now with president trump in office? >> no. i think people have been able to separate the man from the policies and the man from the party. people understand that he is
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fla flamboyant and has a certain style. i don't think they will turn on him as the left is expecting. >> what do you make of trump calming up the washington times and new york post saying the bill has been pulled. >> the enemy. the dishonest, corrupt media that you can't trust, in his first major embarrassment as commander in chief, he calls the washington post. >> he almost didn't answer the phone because it was a blocked number and thought it was someone calling to complain. >> this is lesson to reporters always answer the blocked number calls because it's probably the white house. he then calls the new york times. the new york times who he suggested should be out of business. there's such an obvious di
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discrepancy about what he says and what he does. he lives in that world. the reason that media reporters have to keep repeating and highlighting this is that his base doesn't get it. i would encourage people to think about the anti-media rhetoric and look at the calls to the washington post and new york times and think about what the president says. >> is that true about his base? >> i think he goes to where the love is. i think that's why he goes to the mainstream media because he was getting killed by the conservative media all week. he's not a guy that hates the mainstream media. i think he knows how to use them to his advantage. >> you must acknowledge there's a discrepancy between the
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rhetoric at his campaign rallies where he's naming them as the enemy and calling those people. for me, he's sending one message to the base. he's sending another message to the mainstream. >> he lives in a world of gray. no one is all evil or all good. when they are useful to him. >> it's fake news until it's real news. thanks for being here. right after this break, time magazine calling the president can handle the truth. a fascinating interview with the president where the president said i must be doing something right because i'm president and you're not. we'll talk to the editor of times right after this. raised 1, 2 dynamic diy duos, and an entrepreneur named sharon. its witnessed 31 crashes, 4 food fights, and the flood of '09.
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many americans believe the president has a credibility problem but does trump agree? does he see it as a problem? the answer is not really. check it out. >> i also asked him about whether he thinks this sort of behavior will hurt his credibility over the long term, which is something i think a lot of people do think and he basically gave no ground there. he said did you see i had 25,000 people in kentucky this week at a rally. at the end of the week he said i'm president and you're not. restating the same thing that the proof of my success, the proof of my credibility is the election. >> for more on why the president would agree to talk to time about his credibility, i went to
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the source. nancy gibbs, the editor of time joins me now. for your most recent cover this bold red letters it asks is truth dead. what is your conclusion? >> it's fascinating we are having the conversation now. we've been having for quite some time around this president. a week that began with the fbi director saying completely inci incindirary statement that what the president said. we've been having this other debate about what does it mean. what are the implications of having a president whose relationship with truth is unlike any we've seen in a public figure probably in our lifetimes. >> let me put part of it on screen.
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you said like many news rooms we have wrestled with what to do, what to say when someone is lying. we can point out when a president gets his facts wrong, asks the follow up questions. there's a limit to what we can deduce about motive or intent. the word that comes up is lie. when you have decided to apply the word lie or not to the president's claims? >> we're careful with that language. it's true that it's our business to say when any public figure has their facts wrong. to say they are lying requires an additional level of knowledge that's very difficult to have of what their intention was. the reason i think it's important because in the case of president trump when this came through with our interview with him, some of the things he says that have been disputed and
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completely disproven seems very clear he continues to believe. there's these almost the philosophical question of if you believe what you're saying, even if it's not true, is that still a lie? i will leave that to the academics. the more important thing for citizens is what a president believes really matters. their beliefs have taken countries into war or peace. if president trump does believe many of these things that he continues to say, it has tremendous implications for the way he will conduct this presidency. only judging on the truth of the falsehood of the statement and not whether he is knowingly speaking a falsehood or actually believes what he is saying is an important distinction to make. >> i think some viewers think
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we're being too careful, being too sensitive. if we know someone has a pattern of behavior, pattern of falsehood even when the information is right in his face, some want us to say he's a liar. he lies all the time. >> there's many ways of saying that. i think our audience don't care much what we think. i think they care what we can find out. it's our job to find out what a statement is true or not. when there's evidence to back up statement or not. our opinion of his motives or intent or what's going on in his head, that's much more subjective territory. >> why do you think the president grants an interview to time about this subject? i would think someone who will be asked about their credibility or lack thereof would not want to talk to the interviewer. >> i would think so.
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i think he honestly, it comes through in the interview that he ploo believes he's not given credit for things he have said that turns out to be true. he cites this over and over that he was ridiculed or dismissed from everything on the brexit vote to whether or not he was capable of winning the presidency. i don't think it's an accident that he ends the interview saying i can't be doing that badly saying i'm the president and you're not. that's where he ends up. everything else is a transaction. >> that's why i think publishing transcripts is so vital. we had real sense into his mind. >> in in case it's critically important. every time the interviewer pushed back, he came back with either part of that was true or that proved later to be -- it
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wasn't true at the time he said it but it turned out to be true later. partly he's claiming some prophetic powers but in every case he had an answer. the reason he wasn't dodging the interview is that he believes he has a persuasive defensive answer to many of these charges which is very important for people to hear and understand. >> thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. we'll have more from nancy tonight. all the days media news. you can sign up right now reliablesources.com. nc when we come back here a voice of the liberal opposition media. his critique of trump and cable news.
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welcome back. the podcast keeping at 1600, one
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of the breaking podcasts started as a form of therapy for anxious democrats. several obama aides ensuring their audience that donald trump would not take the white house. with president trump in the white house, the podcast has become something. one of podcasters is john lovett. great to see you. >> good to see you. >> you guys are creating an empire. what are you trying to build? >> we have a simple mission. our goal is to clareate shows a videos and podcasts that inform. >> is it the rachel maddow of podcasting in primetime. >> i love rachel's show. i think we're trying to be looser than cable news and more directly activist.
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the new york times gave you a profile this weekend. it said that you have 1.4 million downloads for every episode of the main show. >> that's a good one. that's a good number. it goes up and down. i don't want to get into the numbers but anywhere from 800,000 or something like that. >> you built all of this out of scratch. a bucn mp och of former obama a. what are you trying to do? >> i think we started this because we were frustrated of people in politics and that cable news with some present company excluded, speaks in a delanguage. >> it's inaccessible for
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millions of young people. millions of young people are cutting the cable. we wanted to speak the way we speak about politics. human beings talk when there's no cameras rolling. we thought there could be an appetite for that less serious conversation. i think we have been rewarded for that. >> on your news show, some of the cable news critique was in that episode. if you could change one thing about this, what would it be? >> well, look, i think you've been a great bull work. >> you don't have to say that. skip that. >> you say he's intellectually dishonest. he doesn't care about the truth. you turn it on cnn and hannity has a little beach hat on half the shows on this network. you turn it on and there's a big giant panel.
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>> jeffrey lord and other trump supporters. >> right. it's smart person, smart person, stupid person. >> what does it help to call them like that? >> i'm not. >> you called them stupid people. >> they are terrible of the views that people have. these are people building a brand. people willing to say anything. there's a world class journalist interviewing people who do not care about informing people. the thing is, there are millions of people who say every day, we don't like this. you look at every single poll. >> millions are also watching it. >> we're all getting the
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ratings. you have polls that say people hate the news. it's not sustainable. some of that is partisanship. how is it sustainable that we all cannot stand the way the news comes at us and not just the substance but the way it's delivered. what we have found is there's an appetite for something different for something that is a time series that doesn't itself seriously. >> is it anything more than preaching to the choir. >> we have conservative guests on. we hear all the time that people that haven't been involved in politics before or maybe thought they were more conservative because we're, sometimes we probably biassed all the time but honest about it. we talk about what we care about. >> biassed all the time but
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honest about it. >> we're honest about our biases. a no bs conversation about politics. that's what we care about. we welcome anyone conservatives to come in. what we don't want is to just check a box. it's checking a box like here is the liberal, the trump conservative. i don't know what the value of that conversation. who comes away -- >> we get to hear what all of them are thinking. >> who comes away thinking i really understand that story. >> next time you come back, i'm going to try to book you with seven other people and make it work. >> i can overwhelm seven other people. >> great to see you. up next, we're talking about fox, coverage of one specific story on fox. what they left out and what they included. we'll analyze that right after
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murders are local news stories on a daily basis. when do they break through to be national news and when do they not? this week health care bill dominated cable news coverage all over the place but fox news focused hefl on another story, sometimes tying it to the prt's immigration story. >> both arrived in this country a few months ago. >> this terrible crime is the latest in a long list of americans who are victims
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because of illegal immigration. >> this shocking case of a 14-year-old girl, allegedly raped by two illegal immigrants in a maryland school got me thinking. do you know who's in school with your children? if you think your school administrator, principal has your back? think again. >> a sickening story about a rape. at fox all roads lead back to media bias. tucker carlson called on the other news for not covering it. he showed nbc and abc's nightly newscast did not focus on this. fox covered that to tie it to trump's immigration. that was maryland. another story in maryland that got no news conch on fox or any other channels. this was about an army veteran,
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an alleged white supremacist who drove to new york and attacked a 66-year-old black man with a 26-inch knife, killing that man. much still to be learned about this story. can you see surveillance footage from the incident here. this story received almost no coverage on fox or cnn or anywhere else for that matter. another example of a crime but not a crime that fit the political agenda of those pro-trump hosts on fox. joining me now talking about those cable news coverage choices and late es with fox commentator, cnn's brian lowry. we've talked about cable coverage on news. this was interesting. because this rape case was covered every hour on fox but not on other big news channels. >> one of the things tv news does is does an excellent job of connecting individual stories to larger themes. in this case it really do dovetailed with fox wanting to
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push fox's immigration story and they used it to buttress that you won't find on other media. it was a win-win. >> what was the latest on judge napolita napolitano, the legal commentator who said the brits were spying on trump. he's been off the air for over a week. >> in think it's interesting. if roger ailes was still covering fox, he would have taken him off and quietly slipped him back on the air. rupert murdoch has bigger irons in the fire. this story embarrassed and angered some lawmakers. murdoch calling the shots instead of ailes. if it were a year ago you would have seen anal tan notice back earlier. >> they say he's not just taking
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a time-out. the story from politico saying napolitano told them that trump told him he's on the supreme court short list. that's interesting. >> i keep coming back to sports with trump and his relationship with cable news commentators, which is every now and then an owner takes an analyst from espn and makes them a coach. they sound brilliant when they're talking about the games on the halftime show and sometimes things don't always go so well once they're put in a position of running a team. and it sort of feels to me like he has in some respects misread that, you know, the fact these people can sound brilliant analyzing from the sidelines. it's very different from actually going in and getting your fingernails dirty. >> great to see you. thanks for being here. thanks for watching today. we'll be back next week. "state of the union" coming up next.
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