the palace, but he is going to be buried in a great monument looking back toward jerusalem as a reminder, i am the king of the jew, even in my death. los angeles is my home. it's also the epicenter of the church of scientology. i live within walking distance of four different scientology centers and i have heard everything you've heard. it's a cult, a scam, science

fiction disguised as self help disguised as a religion. you've heard plenty from scientology's critics those who reject the church, the religion, and everything it stands for. >> tonight, the documentary that scientology does not want you to see. >> if your film, you talk about the prison camps. >> it's run like a paramilitary organization. >> but there are other voices you haven't heard from. scientologists who left the church but continue to practice the religion, true believers who are seizing for themselves the power to define one of america's newest faiths. i'm traveling the world to investigate the reformation of the church of scientology. >> reza aslan is an author and scholar. >> reza aslan is a scholar of religions, best selling author. >> as a scholar and as muslim, as an american, what is your reaction? >> i've been studying the

world's religions for 20 years. now i'm going to live them. >> i have a confession to make. i have a soft spot for scientology. as a scholar i'm fascinated by new american religions and whatever else you think about scientology, it is arguably the most sucssful n american religion of the 20th century. and yeah, ie heard the same things you've heard. i've read the books, i've seen the movies. i'm familiar where the allegations of corruption and abuse and i don't discount them. though i will say that if corruption and abuse disqualify disqualified you from being a religion, there would be no religions. my scholarly interest in scientology often gets me labeled as an apologist for the

religion. and in fact i do often find myself defending scientology at dinner parties. yeah, i'm that guy. >> do you consider scientology a cult? >> definitely. >> do you consider l. ron hubbard to be a charlatan? >> he is a science fiction writer. >> l. ron hubbard writes th s s5 million year ago there was an evil galactic emperor named xenu and that's who we are, we have these thetans. >> so it's based on science fiction. so was a lot of the bible. if there were such things as investigative reporters 2,000 years in the galley -- galilee, there would be no such thing as christianity. so how many people did you feed with like how many loaves? five loaves. i spoke to joab and he said he himself brought like 12 loaves. i've even gone on tv and argued with critics of the church. i don't think it's fair to refer

to scientology as a cult. i mean, really, the difference between a religion and a cult tends to be how long the religion lasts. christianity was a cult for 300 years. it usually doesn't go too well. >> i totally disagree. >> okay, i want to jump in and say something. >> when i decided to do an episode on scientology i reached out to the church. i wanted them to be a part of it to have an opportunity to have their voices heard. >> it's basically an exploration of religious faith from the perspective of believers in that faith. >> i left a message for you previously also sent you an e-mail. i really do want to represent the voice of the church but i do need someone who is willing to speak with me about it. answer phone. why won't anybody tao me? unfortunately, no one from the church of scientology wanted to be a part of this episode.

so instead i reached out to a fellow academic and scholar of religions, donald westbrook, an one of the few experts on scientology who is not himself a scientologist. >> would you put scientology as you would put other religions? >> absolutely. what is unique about it is a product of the culture in which it was born. the religion of scientology came after the mental health movement of dianetics. dianetics was published in may 1950 by l. ron hubbard. it was basically a form of talk therapy. hubbard thought that all the traumas you have over your lifetime, engrams as they're called, is stored into the active mind. dianetics erases those traumas and produces the clear from your

reactive mind and full possession of your analytical mind. >> auditing is the way you get clear? >> exactly. but as people were looking farther and farther into their own personal histories, they found they could go back to the womb. and they went back even farther to past lives. and hubbard realized he wasn't on to something that wasn't purely mental health. it translated into religion. >> so what? that indicated to him that these engrams are stamped in the soul? >> he called a thetan, which is the same idea. e idea of a soul that migrates from body to body, from lifetime to lifetime. >> so far it all seems pretty straight forward. according to scientology we are all eternal souls that have infinite lifetimes and in each one of these lifetimes we picked up traumas, engrams that we still carry with us and which affect our behavior. the way to clear these traumas is through auditing. so hubbard is dead.

and you know, as is often the case with most religions when a prophet dies, one of his followers takes over and in this case it's david miscavige, right? so he's now, i guess, in charge, a lot of people keep saying he's changing the religion. >> this goes to a very important concept in scientology, the technology of scientology. the technology of or the tech of scientology refers to the canon that hubbard created as well as to its correct and pure application. the name of the game in scientology is keep pure the tech of l. ron hubbard. the allegation against miscavige is that he is interpreting the tech. it's a dispute about who gets to say what l. ron hubbard meant. >> every religion gets to deal with these things. who gets to speak for the religion? how do you interrupt the founders intentions? who has the authorities to define the faith? i mean, all of this stuff is for

those of us who study religion, very familiar. >> absolutely. >> over the last few years, this argument over who controls scientology anhow to practice it has led to a number of cts and hisms and break-away groups. i've traveled half way around the world to haifa, israel, to visit one of these groups. if you want to start your own scientology mission you first have to pay the church an up-front fee for its trademark. and then you pay for the right to license its material, the auditing, the training manuals, et cetera. and then, you would pay the church and portion, a percentage of the fees that you bring in for these services, usually about 10%. it's kind of like a mcdonald's. now, imagine if your local mcdonald's decided one day it didn't want to have anything to

do with the corporation any more, that it had failed in meeting certain expectations of its customers. and so, it was simply going to become independent. it would still sell big macs and it would still use the secret sauce. but it just wasn't going to have anything to do with the corporation any longer. that's what's happened here at the dror center. >> the dror center started as a scientology mission specializing in training auditors. >> so this is where people study to become an auditor. >> nice to meet you all. nice to meet you. >> think of auditing as special counseling with the help of a machine called an e-meter. an auditor administers a very specific set of routines and question, all of which were decreed by l. ron hubbard himself.

>> welcome to my kingdom. >> tammy and danny lemberger both rose to enormous heights in the church of scientology. tammy was the church's highest rated auditor in the world two years running and danny was instrumental to introducing the church to israel. but they became disaffected by the church's actions, and now operate their own thriving independent scientology center about 90 miles north of jerusalem. >> you guys were very devout members of the church in good standing. >> yeah. >> i mean, you're one of the top auditors in the world. what happened? how did you go from this loyalty to the church to suddenly begin to change and think differently about it? >> scientology was fun in the '70s and the '80s. when we got in, and then at the '90s and the beginning of the 2000s, the pressure from upper management was more and more and more pressure. >> the pressure for what? >> for money. they wanted to come here for donation evenings, fundraising

evenings. we did not like this. you cannot audit this way. you have to audit that way. >> they change the technology all the time and i wrote many letters. the last letter i wrote, i said, dear, sir, a very polite letter, some things i don't agree with. on 28 june, 2012 we were approached by this lady who handed us an envelope. i knew what it was. a letter telling us that we had been declared an s.p. >> being declared an s.p., or suppressive person in ntogy somewhat akin to being ex-communicated from the catholic church. you're declared an apostate. you're cut off, not only from the church, but also from its members. however, because the church of scientology claims trademark and copy right on materials used to practice the religion, cutting off from the dror center is in

jeopardy. >> you have been excommunicated from the church and the church claims to have a copyright. >> can you imagine? >> they said you were in violation of the copyright? >> yeah. and after we left the church, they asked us to burn all the old books. >> and they told us. >> burn, yeah. but we did this research. and we found all the technology, including the technology is available. >> all the materials are available on the internet. >> so you could access -- >> exactly. >> this material. >> and then i can deliver it. >> so we are just breaking the monopoly. >> you feel what you are doing in haifa is more what hubbard originally intended. the pure version of scientology? >> yeah. >> oh, definitely. this is the true scientology. >> i am only loyal to one person, and that is ron hubbard. he is the source of scientology and i have no doubt if he came around he would hug me and say danny, thank you so much for what you're doing.

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until the 16th century the roman catholic church was the sole interpreter of christianity in europe. but rumors of corruption in the vatic vatican, and the sense that the church was becoming greedy drove a dissatisfied and rebellious group of christians to break off from the church, to begin to interpret the faith for themselves. the protestant reformation, as it became known, swept through europe. and dozens of churns, methodist, presbyterian, anglicans each began the came up with their own interpretation of what it meant to be christian. i'm on my way to meet trey lotz. trey joined the church of scientology in 1969 and rapidly became one of the church's top auditors.

in fact, he achieved ot-8 status. ot-8 or operating thetan 8 is the highest level a scientologist can reach in the church in what l. ron hubbard called the bridge to total freedom. the bridge is a guide step-by-step process through which scientologists can achieve salvation. ot-8 is a god-like status that very few scientologists have achieved. >> in 2007 he was excommunicated, thrown out of the church, declared a suppressive person but he is still a devout believes in scientology and he continues to make a living auditing people out of his house just a stone's throw away from the church. which is kind of funny if you think about it. it's a little bit like if a catholic cardinal was excommunicated and decided to live right next to the vatican

and continue to hear confessions. how exactly did you come into confrontation with the church? >> the whole environment became restrictive.ontrolled and i think it was just part of a general trend of you know, cracking down on independent people and getting rid of old-timers. >> did they ever charge you with anything? >> they said i was making stuff up. which you know, i didn't think was true. i had references for everything i did. i think it was mostly they wanted to run control on everybody. >> so you just left? >> well, i got kicked out and then once i looked around and realized there was, you know, nicer out here, i decided to stay. >> right. now, the people that you were auditing in the church when they found out you had been excommunicated they basically thought i would rather stay with trey than find somebody else?

>> yeah. >> and you just kept going? >> yeah, no problem. like two years ago i did more hours than i had ever done in 43 years. >> i'm curious, have you had past life experiences? >> oh, yeah, sure, sure. my first auditing session was like i had my eyes closed and i kind of froze and he said what's that? and he said well, that's the car i was killed in. >> and it felt absolutely real? >> i can still feel it. >> and how many have you had since then? >> several lifetimes. a pretty good grasp of the 1800s back to the 1700s. and earlier lifetimes, things like that. >> when you pass from this lifetime what happens then? your thetan has accumulated all of this knowledge. are you reborn a scientologist?

>> you're reborn as yourself and one of the goals of auditing is giving a person more control over what happens to them after he leaves the body, before he gets his new body. so you will remain conscious. >> so, did you ever get a chance to meet hubbard? >> yeah, i was on the apollo, which was the original flagship, and i walk out on this catwalk, and around the corner comes hubbard and his two aides, you know. he put his attention on me, and he said hi. and in that instant it was like i was looking into outer space. and i looked into the eyes of many people. i mean, 4,000, 5,000 hours by that time. he had a vast space and it was very clean and a lot of life in it and a lot of vitality in it. since hubbard passed there is a big cultural change in the

church. so it's become less kind, less flexible. >> seems like you've got a lot of emotion involved with the state of the church. are you confident about the future of scientology, not the church, the religion? >> absolutely. there will be people wanting to get trained outside of the church and really doing a good job, you know, and really doing a job that helps people and applied the way it is desned to be applied, you know. the tech will survive. of the chevy silveradoteeld to the aluminum bed of this competitor's truck. awesome. let's see how the aluminum bed of this truck held up. wooooow!! -holy moly. that's a good size puncture. you hear 'aluminum' now you're gonna go 'ew'. let's check out the silverado steel bed. wow. you have a couple of dents. i'd expect more dents. make a strong decision. find your tag and get 15% below msrp on select 2017 silverado 1500 crew cabs in stock.

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such an intense experience being around these independent scientologists. many of them this is the first time they've come out of the closet and they know the risks of it. they understand that what they're doing could get them into a heap of trouble with the church. and yet, they want to talk. they want to speak out. and these aren't just critics of the church. they're not what the church would refer to as apostates. these are people who are very devout believers who are making enormous sacrifices for their faith.

>> hi. >> hello. >> randy? >> reza. . >> randy and tim were once two of the church's west trainers of auditors. the church of scientology claims to be the only constitution authorized to train auditors. after they were ex-communicated, they agreed to continue training auditors, but on their own, outside of the church. they've agreed to take me through some of the training exercises they do with their students. these training drills are ones that hubbard himself created, right? >> we are going to start with >> tr-0. >> tr-0. >> which is confronting. >> have the student and coach sit facing each other and say and do nothing. >> okay. >> you get the idea. tr-0, start. >> this is not a staring contest. according to l. ron hubbard as you advance in scientology you are no longer controlled by the world.

you are in control. this exercise is all about learning to control one's body and one's mind in relation to another person. normally this exercise can last hours. >> all right. that's it. how is it going? >> pretty good. i can't imagine doing that for hours. what's next? >> next we're going to do some bullbait and the purpose is to help you get over certain things that might trigger you if you're in an auditing session. >> and you're going the try to break my concentration. >> okay. you ready? >> yes. >> so tr-0 bullbait start. you're not originally from this country, are you? what boat did you come over on? you didn't come over on a boat you probably flew. you're one of those fancy rich kids that got to fly over here, right?

right? what makes you think you could write a book on jesus of nazareth? you're a muslim, man. are you resisting reacting? are you trying really hard not to react to anything i say? boo, boo, boo. good. okay. that's it. >> okay. i have to say i feel like you were kind of easy. >> i can get rougher. >> should we try? >> let's turn it around. >> me try it on you. well -- feeling a little awkward. >> okay. >> because i don't want to say anything mean. i don't want to -- >> it's okay. >> pull out all the stops. >> pull out all the stops. >> say anything you want, insulting, whatever, totally fine. i can take it. >> you sure? >> yeah, yeah. >> tr-0 bullbait start. randy, does the church know where you live? you're a heretic.

you think l.r.h. is proud of you? he's not proud of you. he thinks you're a bastard. if he were here he'd probably smack you in the face. this whole religion thing. look at you. this science fiction thing, it's not even a religion. it's not even a religion. it's a cult. you believe in xenu? everyone is making fun of you about that. right? xenu horse [ bleep ] okay, end training. >> i want to hug you. >> i didn't mean any of that. >> i no e. >> i didn't mean any of that. >> i know. >> are you concerned about the church's attacks against people who -- who speak out. >> i'm concerned about it. >> do you feel as though this interview might change thing for you? >> it might, it might. >> how does that make you feel? >> i'm prepared for it. before i left the church i was working undercover for the intelligence arm of the church.

>> you were a church spy? >> i was. i was recruited to pose as a disgruntled scientologist and infiltrate a meeting of independent scientologists. i was sent there to take names. all of a sudden i turned around in the auditorium and trey lotz was sitting in the front. i have known trey lotz for 30 years. as one of the top auditors in the l.a. area. i later reported back to my handler and i said do owe know that trey lotz is with these guys. they said he is a suppressive person and has been declared. and -- well, this is what started waking me up. i better check this out. because that doesn't make sens >> do you feel as though that the church was taken away from yo >> oh, yes. it was taken away from me.

but trey encouraged me after i left the church he said, randy why don't you just start auditing again and training. >> anyone can just leave the church if they want to. >> certainly you can. >> you can. >> but -- >> what if you have a daughter or a son who is on staff? >> my daughter disconnected from me. >> she disconnected from him when he left. >> doesn't call me, won't talk to me. >> have you tried to reach out to her? >> sure. it's a wasted effort. you say you got declared, boy, that's it. the axe is falling. >> right. >> did you introduce her to scientology? >> yeah, sure. i've been a scientologist since before she was born. >> before she was born. >> right. >> yeah. >> so she sort of grew up with it. >> did you know that was going to happen? >> oh, yeah. >> can i ask why you felt it was considering the consequences, so important for you to say your peace? >> you know, all i can say it's

a point of integrity. i couldn't be in the organization and see the things that i saw going on and not know that there was something wrong. what's more important, you know, that, or some personal pain and discomfort and familial rejection or something. you know? and i chose the religious aspects of it as being more important. nobody does unlimited like t-mobile. while the other guys gouge for unlimited data... t-mobile one save you hundreds a year. right now get two lines of data for $100 dollars. with taxes and fees included. that's right 2 unlimited lines for just $100 bucks. all in. and right now, pair up those two lines with two free samsung galaxy s7 when you switch. yup! free. so switch and save hundreds when you go all unlimited with t-mobile.

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trey lotz actually agreed to audit me on camera. as far as i can te this is the first time that an auditing session has been filmed for mainstream american television. central to the auditing experience is the emeter. this is basically a very simple lie detector that many scientologists believes helps an auditor pinpoint the areas of pain and trauma below our level of consciousness. a current of electricity runs through two metal cans, into your body and back to the machine. a needle on the e meter reads your body's resistance to the

current. every movement of the needle means something specific to the auditor who has been trained in some cases for decades to interpret it in relationship to the person's spiritual state. >> i have to say i'm kind of nervous. i mean, if auditing is basically a kind of psychotherapy i'm not sure how i'm going to react to it or what kinds of questions he's going to ask or what that will dig up. i don't know. it's a little bit nerve-racking. okay. >> and make yourself comfortable. you may or may not need those pillows there. pick up the cans and see if they are comfortable for your hand size. >> yeah, they are. >> okay, great.

what is it you have your attention on a lot or what areas would you want to improve? >> i have a difficult time expressing sadness when i'm sad or emotionally hurt, rather than responding sadness i respond with anger. it's definitely the worst quality that i have i think. >> well, probably the first thing would be good to do is to run some processes that have to do with opening up. one of the primary techniques is a repetitive process, i give you the question or the command and you give me your response and i acknowledge it and give it to you again. >> okay. >> we do that until there is a release on it. a release would be on the meter, it would show up as a free needle. with you it might feel a little bit of a lightness or an

uptoneness that would occur or sort of expansion of your space or something like that. this process is called the first postulate process and the command is what isn't looking at you. >> what isn't looking at me. >> yeah. >> ah, my dad. my dad's not looking at me. >> okay. good. >> what isn't looking at you? >> my family. >> good. all right. what isn't looking at you? >> everybody who is not in this room. >> what isn't looking at you? >> i guess, the world. >> the needle released on that. how you doing on that one? >> good. some of the questions i describe as co-ones.

these are like a buddhist riddles like what is the sound of one hand clapping. a koan is a question without an answer. the fact that it doesn't have an answer forces you to dig deep and whatever you come up with is what's important. >> there's something called kernt processing. we'll do some of those. so the idea there is something wrong with my emotions. >> i have that idea. >> good. get the idea there isn't anything wrong with my emotions. get the idea there is something wrong with my emotions. get the idea -- there isn't anything wrong with my emotions. >> felt like we were zeroing in on a feeling over and over and over again. until it just didn't really have any potency. >> get the idea there's something wrong with my mind.

get the idea there is nothing wrong with my mind. get the idea it's safe here. get the idea it's not safe here. get the idea there's something wrong with me. get the idea there is something wrong with me. get the idea there isn't anything wrong with my emotion. get the idea there isn't anything wrong with my emotions. get the idea there is something wrong with my emotions. get the idea there is something wrong with my emotions. >> there were a few times it was going on and on and on and i was trying to get the floating needle and i couldn't do it. >> get the idea there isn't anything wrong with my emotions. >> and then i would sort of give up trying and forget about it. and slowly it would just kind of happen. >> good. needle is floating on that. >> i kept seeing myself turn into the incredible hulk. [ laughter ] and then it became harder and harder to maintain that image.

>> well, you've released certain things and that means that there is so potential for expansion or a new pattern or you know, so you just be there with it and you know, let it unfold. >> it's not like i came in here feeling bad about anything in particular. but i just -- i feel a little more uptone, as they would say. i feel uptone. yeah, i feel better. my hands are a little bit tingly.

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in reno, nevada there is an auditor named raye robles who leads a group of independent scientologists who call themselves the free zoners. many of them have moved to reno to be closer to raye. raye is very different from other independent scientologists. his practice has moved far yobd t beyond the practice in the church. he is take it further. he is innovating. as a result, his version of scientology is evolving. it's becoming something new. >> i joined the church 1969. when i got in. i was a college student. i didn't have very much money. but, yet, i was able to buy a meter and able to do it and i was able to go clear. and i was able to afford it. it was $25 an hour. when a new regime came in, hubbard passed, they kept

doubling the money. i paid $750 to do the clearing course to go clear. now it costs like, i don't know, $6,000, $7,000, something like that. >> and that is around the time you -- >> decided to leave, yeah. a lot of people left in '83. i left in 1990. a lot of the people left because they didn't like the new people coming in. they didn't like what was going on. and the new materials and the changes. >> when you left did you right away start auditing and gave services -- >> i never stopped. >> you never stopped. >> and i have been active on this for 20 years in, 20 years out. >> do you feel you are more connected to what hubbard was trying to do? >> we have two different purposes. >> what was his purpose? >> i think his purpose was to help mankind, and he did by bringing this stuff, and he gifted it to us. and that's why i'm able to do it. my purpose line, which i recalled in between life, my mission is to master this

technology, to export it to other realms, other places, other planets. i came to planet earth. i haven't been here that long, a few lifetimes. this is my last reincarnation on earth. i'm planning to leave it. >> you think this is your last. >> yeah, i don't belong here. i would take it with me because any time you master something you got it. you know? >> to master it to develop it, to better it? >> i'm furthering it. >> innovating upon it. a little bit. >> rediscovering some things that have been lost. >> not just the church of scientology. no church wants improvising. >> that's why i don't belong in church. >> the great thing about being a free zoner or being any kind of reformer is you are no longer bound by the rules of the church. you can innovate and synchronize

and borrow and mix and match. take a little bit from that religion, you don't have somebody up there saying no, that's not how it's supposed to be. there are rules and dogma and doctrine. ray agreed to give me a brief auditing sessions his own take on a scientology process rarely performed. >> super power run downs. >> the techniques are not used anywhere. >>n the chch? >> no. >> after we do it, you will see why. >> you pick up the can there is and i want you to assume the viewpoint. >> i can do that. >> very good. how does it feel? >> okay. i've got it. >> close your eyes on these. >> get the idea of mankind assuming the viewpoint of the limits. now get the idea of you causing

all mankind to assume the viewpoint. you caused it. get the idea of whatever you think god is or the divine. assuming the viewpoint of no limits. the idea of you causing the divine and the spirit or not. whatever you thinks that. you causing that. how does it feel? >> energizing. >> improving upon it and the church and the moment where he talks about his bridge is different than the church's bridge. the church has eight ot levels and he has nine. literally one upped the church.

>> you first get through the bridge and you can do this sort of higher perhaps more telepathic and powerful things that they do or whatever they have done. you feel like you areunearthing this stuff that was there. there is this thing called milestone one. when you reach milestone 1, you will be free. of scientology and -- milestone 3? >> i hear that talk a lot from mystics who will say for those of us who have broken free by a different set of rules. do you think about it that way? >> i am that way. definitely.

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>> most thinking people can differentiate between the church and its believers. when the catholic church was embroiled in the pedophilia scandal, most people were able to separate the vatican and bureaucracy from the little old lady who goes to church to pra

for her grandchildren's health. why is it so difficult for many people to differentiate between the church of scientology and the religion of scientology? religious institutions want to present themselves as the sole ash tors of the faith. that's not any more true about scientology than any other religion and no better proof of this than the independent scientology movement. this reformation of scientology. >> recently they exposed all the bad things in scientology organization, exposing why intelligent people were seeing all the things happening and staying there and not leaving. that's how scientology became a bad word. it's knowing how to know.

you realize that there is so much in scientology which is true and strong and frees people and frees souls. then i think people will follow and it will grow and become a great movement. without a great movement. >> the more time i spend with these independent scientologists, the free zoner, the more i realize we are witnessing the reformation. a religion can only expand as individuals feel free to make it their. that's what's happening here. these independent scigistentolo believe they are the tree believers and the church veered off course and they are remaining true to the original foundations built by l. ron hubbard.

it doesn't matter whether they are right or wrong. all religions deal with this conflict between individuals and institutions over who has the authority to define a faith. maybe that proves that scientology is not so different after all. >> i believe in l. ron hubbard and the truth and sincerity of what he has done. >> the technology that l. ron hubbard is doing, his's work is what is important. >> it's not a matter of belief if something works or not. it either works or it doesn't. >> i believe people should do scientology with fun and gusto. >> i believe that scientology in the free zone is wonderful. >> i believe strongly that to be

right. >> it's a development to mankind. >> a full investigation after air strikes kill civilians in mos mosul. >> former president not only lost her job, but immunity. >> hundreds of people were detained in russia as massive crowds gathered to protest corruption in the government. hello and welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm rosemary church. >> i'm cyril vannier.