one of the great things about comcast, there's always room to move up. of course, it depends on you, how hard you work. ♪ in the second hour of "ac360," what we're hearing about new bombs made to be built into laptops tested on the very airport security they're designed to defeat. cnn learned the intelligence on the recent ban on the laptops in cabins in the u.s. evan, what is the latest? >> well, anderson, cnn has learned that u.s. intelligence and law enforcement agencies believe that isis and other terrorist organizations have developed innovative ways to plant explosives and electronic devices that the fbi has not been able to detect.

they have the laptop turned on long enough to get past the airport screeners. they tested varieties of the laptop bombs using the explosives to assess how difficult it would be for the airport screeners to detect them. they found that the airports would have a far harder time to detect these. using tsa rated machines, the testers found they have a far more difficult time testing these types of bombs. >> and how do they perfect their skills on this? >> they've gotten themselves very handy technology in all of this. the intelligence is indicating and according to officials we've spoken to, that isis and other terror groups are perfecting it and they may have come into possession of airport screening

technology. it allows them to fabricate a device and test them against screening technology. not just isis and iraq, it is al qaeda and yemen, all the intelligence is pointing to all of these groups really stepping up their efforts to try and attack commercial aviation, even aviation coming into the united states. al qaeda in yemen, the underwear bomber came very close as an airport landed in detroit to someone detonating a bomb on their body. so this is all part of the reason you're seeing the growing concern, all of this contributing to the ban on consumer electronics when you fly. anderson? >> and evan, the tsa limited the ban to direct flights only to specific countries. so with this new information the government still, they're not widening the laptop ban?

>> not just yet. and that is a big question, the explanation that was given when the ban was introduced, anderson, was that the u.s. and european countries had layered security that greatly protects the chance of detecting explosiv explosives. beyond just the screening. we heard from homeland security tonight saying that the u.s. government continually reassesses intelligence and collects new intelligence, allowing dhs and other agencies to evaluate our policies and enhancements and make them when necessary to make sure all passengers are safe. of course they are all subject to robust security that is both seen and unseen, anderson? >> all right, i want to bring in bob behar, and clarissa ward. bob, how concerned are you about all of this? >> very concerned. if they managed to make

batteries, anderson, into explosives or hide explosives or in this case probably chemicals, a mixture of chemicals. that is a new development, never been seen before. and getting through airport security is fairly easy. i mean, explosives -- emanate nitrates, easy to detect in countries like amman, and if they find a way to mix chemicals inside a battery in a laptop, it's almost undetectible. >> clarissa, you follow these terrorist groups who were certainly trying to perfect these devices for a long time. they moved to more sophisticated high tech explosives. you pointed out that there is no greater prize for them than bringing down an aircraft. >> that is right, anderson, it is almost an obsession with groups around the world, seen as the holy grail, because essentially in one fell swoop

you maximize the casualties, and also deal a blow to the aviation industry, and also a threat to this global world we live in. we've seen a lot of different incarnations, various levels of sophistication, the al qaeda in yemen as its known, whose master bomb-maker, al asari, who was making liquids at one stage, involved with underwear, then we saw isis get involved, they were the ones who took down the russian jet, taking it down with a soda can held in the hold. and if you look at the bombs and weapons factory that we've seen with isis in mosul, it's really noticeable how much more

sophisticated their technology and ambitions have become, whether it's using drones or trying to develop planes, whether it's working on driverless cars they have almost started to match al qaeda in yemen, which had traditionally been at the sort of the forefront of this effort to come up with this type of technology, anderson. >> yeah, john, i mean, you were the head of tsa for years, how concerned are you that according to the intelligence that some of these terrorists have actually obtained airport equipment to test how to contain these airport explosives? >> well, that is a factor anderson, and really the u.s. intelligence and law enforcement community, they really look at three criteria for each of the almost 275 airports that have non-stop service to the u.s. on an almost daily basis, and that is really -- what are the policies that the country has in effect at that particular airport, and by that i mean do they use intelligence, actionable credible intelligence

to inform their policies? secondly, do they have procedures in place, and by that i'm talking about what type of equipment. because the vast majority of the 275 airports have walk-through technology and pretty basic technology that we have here in the u.s. in many of our largest airports, and then the third is personnel. what type of vetting do they do with their personnel that have access to the sterile side, the safe side of the airport and are they trusted in some level of confidence with those personnel? so you look at those three criteria and make an assessment, what type of confidence does the u.s. airlines and governments have in those policies and procedures and personnel to make judgments, and that is what led to this ban from those ten airports? >> julie, do you see the ban on laptops on board flights as potentially going further because of this? i mean, it's not realistic to

get to a place where no one can bring a laptop onto an aircraft. >> that is exactly right. i mean, if you just look -- think about the global aviation system. 100,000 flights a day. it is too big, too massive. the hasher the security apparatus is, the less flow we'll have for the tourism and economy, all the things that make the world today have flow, essentially. so what your viewers currently know, we're not going to get airport security safe. you can make it safer and you can make airline travel safer so you put in different security, layered security to try to minimize the risk to passengers. and so the question is, is this one laptop ban worth it in various airports as compared to the likelihood that you will minimize the risk. from the outside, it's somewhat

enkpre he incomprehensible at this stage. they have different airports chosen as compared to the united states and those don't match. and of course we know paris is not a covered airport, and there are plenty of problems with -- radicalization there. so you have the complete ban or more targeted intelligence, that is the only way to do it and sort of ensure security. >> yeah, troubling, appreciate all of your comments, thank you, coming up next, more breaking news with the top democrat on the white house intelligence and what was said to the president, his administration, he is in fact obviously investigating. we'll be right back. court's in use bros, wait your turn.

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intelligence committee adam schiff speaking out. on top of that, there are developments on the potentially toxic mix on the look into washington, more as well into the continuing white house effort to say that none of the above matters more than the alleged unsubstantiated and possibly nonexistent leaks. and there is a lot to see, try not to blink. flynn, when the president first tweeted about him this morning and then later shut down a press event when asked about it. at 7:04, he tweeted that this is a witch hunt, by dems of historic proportion. no words, later on, he had nothing to say in what was supposed to be a televised signing order. take a look, when major garrett yelled out a question about flynn.

>> thank you, everybody, you're going to see some very, very strong results very quickly. thank you very much. >> mr. president, in the tweet were you trying to tell the justice department to grant immunity to michael flynn? were you trying to do that, mr. president? was that your intention, mr. president? was that your intention, sir? >> as soon as the question from major garrett came he walked out of the room, motioned to the other room, the vice president picked up the container of paperwork and the rest takes place off camera. and later, the press secretary, sean spicer, was asked about flynn. >> general flynn says he has a story to tell. is the white house concerned that general flynn has damaging information about the president, his aides and associates about what occurred during the campaign with respect to russia? >> no. >> and now as unconcerned as sean spicer appears to be about

flynn testifying and as eager as the president appeared to be at least in his tweet this morning, one republican disagrees. jason chaffetz was asked if he believes as the president does that this is all a witch hunt? >> no, i don't think it's a witch hunt. it's very mysterious to me why general flynn is out there saying he wants immunity. yofrlgs i don't think congress should give him immunity. if there is an open investigation that should not happen. i actually don't believe the president should weigh in on this, they're the ones that would actually prosecute something. >> as we said this is just one of many related stories, sean spicer calling devin nunes's visit routine and proper. and adam schiff with his comments, so what did the white house have to say about schiff's visit this afternoon? >> well, it's interesting, in addition to adam schiff having a chance to look at the document, he did meet with president trump.

the white house says it was a cordial meeting. it was interesting what he said after this trip over here to the white house, his office released a statement saying that according to the congressman, what he was told over here by white house officials is that he was being presented with the same documents that were given to and shown to the chairman of the committee, devin nunes. now what adam schiff said in the statement is fascinating, he said the white house has deemed to explain what the committee, referring to devin nunes, only to the contents to be briefed back to the white house. so we still have this question that's been unresolved here. so anderson, yes, they showed adam schiff the documents they apparently showed to devin nunes a week ago on that secret trip to the white house. but nobody has answered the question why it was necessary to show it to devin nunes, only to have him come back to the white house the next day and brief the president on

materials he received and learned about over here at the white house. so it's another one of those nagging questions not going away. >> and what about michael flynn? what's the white house line on that? >> you saw and read the tweet from the president saying it was a witch hunt, so michael flynn should go ahead and testify with immunity. we asked the press secretary about this at the briefing, and he said yes, the president believes michael flynn should testify if he can get immunity, great, but at the same time there was this lecture we heard at the white house press briefing that we are concerned more about process than substance, and the white house was making a statement today, i think it's a sneak preview of attractions that they will make the case from here on out that what is more important is not about the questions about the trump company contacts with the russians during the campaign. it is that they believe the obama administration

unlawfully surveilled the trump administration and his team some time around the transition. at the same time, they're just not providing any evidence. we offered them another chance today to provide evidence to back up the president's claim that he was wiretapped by president obama over at trump tower, we once again did not receive that evidence. >> all right, jim acosta, digging deep on flynn, and the drama signifying what, we don't know yet. randi kaye has more. >> ladies and gentlemen, i want to introduce the next president of the united states, donald trump. >> he was a lifelong democrat, yet during 2016, general michael flynn found himself on the trail stumping for then republican nominee donald trump. >> as a kid who grew up in the a strong democratic neighborhood in the state of rhode island, i

don't recognize the democratic party that i learned about. >> when he first met president trump, flynn was impressed. >> i felt the conversation we had was enlightening to me. >> flynn is a retired three-star lieutenant general who holds three college degrees, including an mba, with 33 years of military experience, serving as a commander both in iraq and afghanistan, and later as a director for intelligence in the u.s. central command, and president obama nominated him to be the director of defense for the intelligence agency, the pentagon's main spy service in 2012. he was forced out of that role two years later for publicly questioning obama's narrative that al qaeda was close to defeat. he later told politico that that was obama's big lie, that the enemy was on the run and we were beating these guys. flynn felt he had more to give his country, so in 2016, he aligned himself with trump. in july of last year at the

republican national convention, flynn delivered a fiery speech. >> we are tired of obama's empty speeches and his misguided rhetoric. this -- this has caused the world to have no respect for america's word, nor does it fear our might. >> reporter: he also had harsh words for hillary clinton. >> lock her up. that is right. yes, that is right. lock her up. >> reporter: that same month, flynn was scrutinized after he re-tweeted a message bashing jewish people, in response to comments the clinton campaign had made about russia hacking the committee. he said the ussr is to blame, not any more, jews, not any more. flynn later apologized. after trump won the election he named flynn as national security adviser.

no one could have predicted flynn would only hold that job for 23 days. that's right. 23 days. flynn resigned after misleading the vice president and others about the substance of phone calls he had had with the russian ambassador. >> i talked to general flynn yesterday and the conversations that took place at that time were not in any way related to new u.s. sanctions against russia. >> reporter: turns out that was not true. secret transcripts of flynn's intercepted calls showed flynn did discuss sanctions, a potential violation of federal law. after flynn texted russian ambassador kislyak on december 25th to wish him a merry christmas, the ambassador texted him three days later, saying i would like to give you a call. may i? the next day they talked by phone. the very same day that president obama ordered sanctions on russia.

the evolving and eroding level of trust is what led the president to ask for general flynn's resignation. >> flynn later wrote this letter of resignation, explaining he inadvertently briefed the vice president and others with incomplete information. flynn also raised eyebrows in august 2016 during his speech when he referred to islamism as a quote, cancer in the body of muslims. >> we are facing anotherism, just as we faced naziism, and fascism and imperialism and communism. this is islamism. it is a vicious cancer inside the body of 1.7 billion people on this planet and it has to be excised. >> as flynn's lair wouwyer woul

he has quite a story to tell. and "the new york times" is reporting a story that just broke a short time ago, they show that even though they hold official white house jobs, ivanka trump and jared kushner are still benefitting from a sprawling business empire worth as much as $731 million. is there a conflict? we'll look into it. it's our little differences, that can make a world of difference. expedia, everything in one place, so you can travel the world better. when people ask me now i tell them this. bright reveal peel pads from l'oreal. with glycolic acid... visibly reduces wrinkles and reveals brighter skin. all this power in one little pad. bright reveal peel pads from l'oreal skin expert, paris.

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well, it's a friday night tradition, and despite the pedestrian-sounding name for it. a document dump, usually brings breaking news, yesterday, they dumped filings on as many as 180 people, including ivanka trump and jared kushner. the two have not divorced themselves from the financial benefits of their stakes in the family business, worth close to 3/4 of a billion dollars. joining us now, former george w. bush white house ethics manager. richard painter. and it's fascinating to read over the documents and the reporting that "the new york times" has now posted tonight. there is so much for all the talk of how jared kushner and

ivanka trump have gone above and beyond the law in terms of getting rid of any ethical conflicts, there is a lot not known about who jared kushner's family company, who is investing in it, what businesses from overseas are investing in it. you talked about a huge investment from a company in israel. and obviously he is tasked with bringing middle east peace. >> right, i mean, kushner company has four separate loans from the biggest bank in israel, presenting a couple of issues, right? one, jared kushner as you point out is tasked with doing peace in the middle east. and then the other issue is that the bank is the subject of a very serious investigation by the department of justice as to whether or not they helped americans avoid paying taxes with regard to banks offshore. so the notion he continues to be the beneficiary of this business

that he ran for many years, that is in business with the biggest bank in a country with whom he is going to be doing extensive work from a diplomatic perspective is quite surprising. >> richard, from an ethic's standpoint is that an issue for you? and now that both ivanka trump and jared kushner are both now white house employees do you see other conflicts there? >> well, the law does not require them to sell the assets, but if they don't sell the assets and they have not sold the assets in real estate the law does require they recuse from any government matter that could have any economic effect on those assets, and that includes anything that has an affect on the real estate industry, on the financial services sector because the banks are loaning so much money to real estate people that that is what drives up the price of real estate, and we often have booms in the financial services sector at the same time as we have booms in the real estate

sector often followed by a bust. so both of them are going to have to stay out of dodd-frank repeal and anything having to do with financial services. and they also ought to recuse any matters, any of the lenders to their real estate projects that they have held onto. so there will be broad recusals here, they have to follow the law but they have gone a lot further than the president who is sitting there on even more real estate and insisting that he doesn't have to recuse and he can go ahead and repeal dodd-frank and cause a real estate bubble and so forth. that is our real problem. not ivanka trump and jared kushner. >> knowing what you do, tim, does this surprise you? >> it doesn't surprise me that they retained close connection to their businesses. i don't think they really have any authentic wish to distance themselves from their bank accounts or business holdings or real estate holdings. and the reality is tonight's

disclosure is really inadequate. it looks very much like the same financial disclosures that president trump made last spring to the fec. these are self-reported evaluations. they give us a sense of where their properties are located. we don't really know if the numbers are accurate. they have not been audited. it relies on us be leaving that the family members themselves are putting forth adequate valuations. and at the end of the day it doesn't solve the problem of the fact that this family in an unprecedented way is carting in an enormous number of financial conflicts into washington that confuse the issue of whether or not they're making sound public policy or whether or not they're just making decisions that are in their own financial self-interest. >> and jesse, during the transition, jared kushner was still meeting with companies, potential investors of the chinese company that was going

to make a huge bailout of their 666 building, we know the russian ambassador had a meeting with the russian -- the guy who ran a russian bank, which there is disagreement on what exactly that meeting was about. but i mean, it's clearly interesting that even during the transition while kushner had this incredibly important role as kind of being the touch point for foreign dignitaries and foreign leaders into the future trump administration, he was still conducting business. >> yeah, i mean, i think the thing that is actually sort of funny about this situation, with the chinese financial firm they had discussions with around 666 fifth avenue. is that they have made sort of something of an issue of the fact that they divested -- jared kushner divested his stake in

and around those companies. what we were seeing is, look, he is pulling out of anything to do with that particular property and that should sort of satisfy any potential conflicts. and it's almost if that story had not broken a couple of months ago they probably would not have die -- divested his stake there either. the fact that this is a fundamental business, this is an extensive opaque financial relationship, both equities and lending relationships and we know virtually nothing about those relationships and one way to prevent potential conflicts would be for him to divest himself entirely away from the business. another way would be to disclose about those businesses, and we don't have either of those. >> up next, i'll speak with the member of the house intelligence committee, who said innocent people don't seek immunity. that is not exactly true. he doesn't want to hear from

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democratic representative eric swalwell is slamming

michael flynn's proposed immunity deal regarding the election. he says he doesn't want to hear from flynn in a setting where there are conditions. >> so congressman, today we learned that the senate intelligence committee would not grant michael flynn immunity. do you think it's too early for that? do you think the house committee should? >> right now we don't know enough. and generally you don't give immunity to innocent people. so as far as i'm concerned i want to know why he is seeking immunity and what he could tell us about the ties that we suspect are there between donald trump and his team in russia. >> you said they don't give immunity to innocent people, usually, but attorneys ask for it all the time. it doesn't necessarily mean somebody committed a crime. >> no, it doesn't, but generally innocent people are not seeking immunity, but i want to know what is he afraid that could

come out and what could he tell us that we don't already know? anderson, i was a prosecutor and worked on many cases where witnesses would get immunity, but only after they disclosed what they already knew, so right now i think a blanket immunity would be impossible. >> and trump tweeted out that he should ask for immunity, and that this is a witch hunt of historic proportions, obviously accusing it of being a witch hunt. but has the process evolved into on the house side such deep partisan politics that he should be granted immunity? i mean not that he revealed anything, but clearly there are a lot of politics going on. >> i believe, anderson, we have to stay on track. i'm home right now, and my constituents are asking what did

you do to fand -- find out whether u.s. persons participated in the interference in the campaign? so really we have to take the white house out of our investigation. and right now the way they are working with chairman nunes, they have inserted themselves into the independent and incredible work we have to do. that is wrong and it affects our ability to do this the right way. >> the ranking member of your committee, adam schiff, was at the house reviewing documents at the heart of nuance's claims, but he's not sharing them. obviously you would like to see those documents. is this a step forward towards transparency? >> well, it's certainly a step toward giving us information that the chairman went and received without telling us and only revealed what looks like an effort to try and validate the president's wiretapping claim. so again, i think the chairman is making this investigation about him and he should really step aside because if we are going to have that independence and credibility and make progress, we need to not be

working with the white house where the president's campaign right now is under federal, criminal and counterintelligence investigation. so people are counting on us to do our job right now and not work with subjects of this investigation. >> do you have any doubt there was collusion between nunes and the white house on this subject, or at the very least the white house knew about this subject, and whether nunes was winning or not. the white house -- president trump had telegraphed that something would come out. sean spicer telegraphed something would come out. they said look for a predicate to be laid down here, that is when nunes started talking about incidental collection, the white house already had this information. >> and anderson, the fact you're asking me this right now demonstrates why it's a problem.

just the perception of a conflict of interest can be as bad as a conflict of interest, that is why i think the responsible thing to do for the chairman is to step aside. also anderson, when you talk about telegraphing something that is coming, that has a ring of familiarity to me, because that is the same thing we saw discussed on john podesta, so again, whether they are unwittingly using the tactics the russians orchestrated, we'll see that play out in the white house. >> thank you. joining us now, david gergen, jason miller, in terms of general flynn's request for immunity, is there a potential strange his legal team may be using? they're not the ones -- we don't know who leaked the story and made it public, they did send out a statement confirming that

clearly they were looking for some sort of immunity. is there an alternative strategy for making something public like this? >> that is the bizarre part of this. i have never heard of a case in 50 years of practice where the defense publicly states that it is actively seeking immunity. normally these negotiations occur behind closed doors. there are offers of information, proffers, and then negotiations occur. and then the prosecution decides whether to grant immunity. now, the defendant has no choice, he can't accept or reject immunity, he has to testify if he is given immunity. and the thing that people are forgetting is the oliver north case. the senate and the prosecution can have their cake and eat it. they can wait a while, have more information, put it in a lock box, and time stamp it. and eventually give flynn

immunity. he would have to then testify. and they can still prosecute him based on the information before he testifies. so we're seeing a three-dimensional chess game played here, and it's very difficult to know if it is a tactic or not. it also could be a bluff. it also could be that flynn doesn't want to testify. he pressures the senate and house to saying we don't want you to get immunity. at that point he is the good guy, offering to testify. and they're the bad guys. so it's very hard at this point to figure out exactly what it is. >> jason miller, do you believe it's good for the president and its allies to have general flynn out there to apparently shop for an immunity deal? >> well, i'm not the expert on this panel, i think alan and kayleigh are the two to have expertise on this strategy. i would say the tactic that jared kushner and others are

taking, we want to come in front of the committee and testify. because guess what, there is ultimately nothing there. and ultimately general flynn, a three-star general, i highly doubt he has anything he has to worry about as far as immunity, obviously that is his legal right. but i think in the court of public opinion this really seems to be going in the wrong direction, look in my opinion 80% of these things are decided before anyone actually goes and testifies. and so by asking for immunity on the front end of this, it raises questions and the fact we're having panels and discussions on this very topic, probably leads people to think there is something there, which there is not. >> do you think it was wise for the president himself to wade into this today? once your exnational security advisor asks for immunity, is that a situation that lends

itself to twitter? >> look, i have no problem with him tweeting this, i think it was taken out of context by many. i saw that basically chaffetz said how dare the president question the investigation. he said this is a witch hunt. when i saw this and read this, i thought this inference based on only circumstantial evidence that there is trump collusion with the russians. there is no direct evidence of that. only circumstantial. we have more proof of unlawful surveillance than we do of any collusion. so i don't think he was questioning the integrity of the investigation. i don't have a problem with him pointing out that it is a witch hunt. >> that the witch hunt language was actually the language used by flynn's own attorney, i don't know whether or not he said witch hunt, or that it was a politicalized investigation. >> i'm not sure what kayleigh was saying, a witch hunt, well, this is a political investigation which is now led by republicans in the house and

senate and we have the fbi investigating. we don't know what the evidence is, it is way too early to say there is no evidence because it's only now coming out. flynn has not for example, sung yet. he may be doing that. i want to go to another point, what alan dershowitz was saying, going back to the case of oliver north, in that case the prosecutors were going after him. the prosecutors were going after him. they found him guilty on three charges and he was granted immunity by congress and that immunity, he used that immunity he was granted by congress to get the courts to throw out his prosecutions. they said they were tainted by the whole process in the congress. so that flynn may be looking for a way to get out from under it entirely. >> professor dershowitz, you said if they gather evidence on their own and put it in a lock

box and then he still gets immunity on whatever he testifies, if they had discovered that evidence previously, he doesn't get immunity from that? >> that is right, it's called use immunity, not transactional immunity. it's very hard to nav gate. it means that the prosecutors cannot have any access to the immunized testify. they have to build what is called a chinese wall between themselves and the immunized testimony. in the case they failed to do that and that is why the prosecution was thrown out. >> it's fascinating, i appreciate everybody being on the panel. coming up top of the hour, new cnn special report. talks with one man from europe who joined isis and then returned home. he is out now. a preview of isis behind the mask next. new bikes aren't selling guys...

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