>> you are [ bleep ]. >> reporter: the moral of the story? >> and it should be service with a smile. >> reporter: instead of service that left dr. dao with his smile missing two teeth. cnn, new york. thank you for joining us, anderson is next. good evening, thank you for joining us tonight, american forces dropping the largest non-nuclear bomb in their arsenal in the largest target in afghanistan, and the president leaving it unclear if he authorized it. whether it did, we have had these significant weapons, this has never been used in combat. why now? how does this massive bomb actually work and what is the use of it in afghanistan, after nearly 16 years when americans went to war there. cnn's barbara starr has more. >> good evening, anderson, we

now know that this mission was planned by the military over the last several weeks. they were looking at a target in east afghanistan, the remote mountainous area. it was so remote that isis used. they felt fairly sure, they say, there were no civilians around. it seemed like the right target. there were about 400 isis across east afghanistan, they have been trying to go after them for sometime now. so the mission was planned and executed. they will now do the damage assessment. they will fly over the target. they're going to have to determine that there were no civilian casualties. they say they don't think so. still to be determined. they have to find out if the bomb worked as planned because they never used it in combat. this is a bomb that is so huge. 21,000-plus pounds basically shoved out the back of a cargo plane at a very high altitude and it detonates over the

target. it does not penetrate into the ground. people are killed, injured, the targets are skilled by the huge air blast of the weapon detonating. and they never until now found a target they felt they could use it against, anderson? >> and what especially led to this, and the involvement by the president if there was? >> we know the commander of afghanistan had this weapon in the country for some weeks. we know he had authority to use it. we know that he briefed the mission up and down the chain of command, so when president trump was asked today at the white house whether he authorized it, he was very cryptic about that. he said he has authorized the military to do pretty much paraphrasing him, but does that mean they will do this?

no, but on something this big i hardly think the white house, the national security council wanted the president to find out about it on cable news. >> barbara starr, thank you. now the bombing news and also the target. cnn's dana bash and peter bergen, the fact they used this non-nuclear powerful bomb, what does it tell you? >> i can't emphasize it enough, whenever you have these kind of targets you consult or have your experts consult the employment manual. actually a book that says if this is what the target looks like here are the kind of weapon

systems you use, the reason we haven't used this before, this bomb was designed in 2003 for an iraq war fight. and then it was eventually used later on in this particular fight because it met all the criteria. open space, tunnels and complexes. exploding devices, the ieds. this is part of this defensive position. so i think mcnicoleson, the commander for afghanistan said boy, i have this kind of target, what kind of target can i use it with? and the targeteteers said let's use a moab. the commander briefed his boss, and i'm sure folks in the pentagon knew about it. >> general, what does it tell you about the target itself to actually go into -- i assume these tunnels would be a great danger to anybody who was doing that, to actually have people on

the ground in that area? >> yeah, certainly the use of this weapon system was probably as mark described the absolute correct weapons system for this target. the target was obviously very large. it had a large -- kind of a collection of isis fighters. it was a known location. it was probably actionable intelligence, in other words, if general nicoleson had not acted on it, it would have been diminished in terms of a good kill, if you know. it was the travel route, the nexus, between afghanistan and pakistan, so the collateral damage assessment that was done obviously was very, very low, it became the right weapons system to use. if you had gone after this target with conventional forces, first of all it would have probably taken conventional

forces, you would have put a lot more soldiers at risk and it would have been a more complex mission. this made a lot of sense to go after this target at this moment. >> and general, if in fact the president didn't know about it in advance and didn't need to sign off on it, is that normal protocol? >> in this case, yeah, because it is a tactical weapon, you don't have the president signing off on every mission that you do. or you shouldn't have. it would have happened through the combat mission. i actually had a target in iraq that we wanted to use a mosby on, and when the targeteteer wanted to use it, they said no because it was too close to a city. so we went with 2,000 pound bombs, you just have to use more

of them and use more planes to deliver them as well, and that gets dangerous as well. >> and it's interesting this comes on the heels of a missile strike in syria as well, obviously, different combats and devices. >> that is right, very different in both ways, and also very different when it comes to what the president said he would do as a candidate and now as president when it comes to this particular mission today, the target was isis. we know what he said, probably one of his most famous lines from the campaign that he would bomb the you know what out of isis. well, that is what at least he tried to do today, his pentagon and his military brass tried to do that in afghanistan and pakistan. that is very different from the strikes that we saw late last week on syria which is something he vowed he would never do. and really criticized and went after not just president obama but then candidate hillary

clinton for even being too hawkish, by way of assad and syria, saying it's not where we belong and so forth. on that it's a complete change, the fact he aggressively launched strikes after he saw the pictures of the chemical weapon attacks especially on children. >> when people think of isis stronghold, they typically think of iraq, not afghanistan -- talk about the progress there. >> it may grow larger as people leave iraq and syria, it's quite possible they may return to the afghanistan/pakistan region. isis, there are a number of taliban groups that sort of slapped on the isis patch. and they have the ancient word for the afghanistan region. they're there, not remotely as significant as the taliban which now controls or contests a third of the population. and really are at the highest

point that i've seen since the fall of the taliban in 2001. isis is just one of the many, by the way, jihadi groups, including al qaeda, in uzbekistan and others. i wouldn't say they are hugely important. the real issue is the fact that the taliban have taken helmand in 2009. you will recall that the district fought by the american marines, now being retain by the taliban and that is quite a significant victory, unfortunately, one of many the taliban have had in recent months. >> this is a reminder of people who maybe have not paid a lot of attention to afghanistan, and we didn't hear a lot about afghanistan during the campaign, that the war is still very much going on, as peter said the area the marines have fought for and bled for in some cases have been retain. >> guilty as charged. the united states had an amazing victory early on in the war in

afghanistan and we diverted our attention to iraq. we really as a nation have the ability to prosecute what i would say two separate campaigns within a war and we simply were moving resources around and we lost sight of the ball. if you will allow me that expression. this is real, you know, general nicoleson is the longest serving commander in country. this is an issue that he has embraced that the united states must get its arms around. the afghan military has to increase its professionalism. and we can ill afford to establish time lines and declare when we're going to depart. we have to do that based on our assessment of the conditions. that is where we are right now. and i think a contributing factor with general nicoleson, saying look, this relieves some pressure from the military. >> i want to thank everybody here. the people who helped to put the president in the white house and

their extent of communications with the russians, we have more details on that. and later glenn beck joins us, saying there are signs that the president's chief strategist may be on the outs. (de♪p breath) (phone ringing) they'll call back. no one knows your ford better than ford and ford service. right now, during the big tire event, get a $140 rebate by mail, on four select tires. ♪

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targeteer. a new piece of the russia/trump picture, new pictures of the trump associates

and especially russian officials and others known to intelligence. this builds according to the story from our own jim sciutto when the story broke. it shows they picked up early on contact with moscow. what have you been learning, jim? >> reporter: well, what we're hearing is that british intelligence and other western and european intelligence agencies like u.s. intelligence were picking up conversations between russian officials, other russians known to western intelligence and trump associates, advisers to his campaign. it's significant because more than one intelligence agency was documenting these conversations and feeling the need to then share it with u.s. intelligence, which gives it some significance there. now one thing i should note, this was incidental collection, these agencies were not targeting trump's advisers or campaign, you're aware, anderson, that donald trump

accused obama associates to spy on him. that is not what happened. they were targeting russians and russian officials and others and as they did that, they picked up conversations between russians and advisers during the trump campaign. >> and there were ambiguous comments today as well. >> at best, confusing, at worst, conflicting, when he spoke to jake tapper yesterday, jake asked him did you as you met with the russians did you bring up the idea of easing sanctions, for instance, and keep in mind he was advising the campaign. trump identified him as a foreign policy adviser, to jake tapper he said no that didn't come up in the conversations. today, he said well, i don't really know for sure. and that is a problem making these public comments without any sort of clarity. and we know he is interesting

investigated for these meetings because there was a fiso warrant reportedly on him for these meetings. >> there were also commented made by the cia director mike pompeo about these wikileaks questions. >> there is so much going on, anderson, right, that it's almost hard to keep track of some of this. but remember, donald trump more than once during the campaign praise wikileaks, famous in october just before the election, he said i love wikileaks. he encouraged russia to hack hillary clinton's e-mails, et cetera, repeatedly via twitter and in his public comments. now, the cia director that he appointed and really his first public comment since taking that job comes out and says wikileaks is not just an annoying actor, he said they are a bad non-state actor that works with russia against u.s. interests. that is a remarkable contrast between what the future

president said during the campaign and what the director of the cia is saying now. >> it would be interesting to hear what the president thinks about that now. joining us now, phil mudd and steve hall who oversaw operations. i mean, in terms of how the intelligence was collected by the british does it make sense to you that they would have had incidental interception between communications between trump associates and russian officials? >> sure, anderson, not an uncommon event. the brits and our other allied five partners will try to monitor what the russians are up to in their own countries. and just like in the united states, the process of that collection in an adversarial country, like america, you will get the reporting sometimes against an american. and then the process is of

course that do our cooperate with our five allies, that information will be passed usually to the u.s. government, usually to the fbi who of course has the mandate for u.s. persons and american citizens, not cia or fbi. or nsa. so wyeah, this is not an uncommn thing and i would expect and hope that our five allies monitored what the russians were doing, and i would hope that it happens. >> and the brits made this known -- >> i can't wait to watch the fairy tale spun by politicians over the next few days about conspiracy. huge volumes of data out there, anderson, the united states collects some streams of data on for example, russians, the brits -- it's not as if they looked at it and said let me cherry pick

the trump stuff. they simply say you give us your russian stuff, we give you our russian stuff. it's bird-sharing. once it gets out the intelligence industry will look at if there is value in it. and now the fbi is saying yes, there is, if there are people showing up in the intercepts we want to know. that is what happened here, anderson. >> and when the fox news report was discussed that fox news then backed away from, saying that president obama used the british intelligence agency to spy on trump, does any of this new information in any way support that claim? >> let me echo exactly what phil was saying, here is what did not happen and here is what i could not imagine happening. any agency in the united states reaching out to our foreign allies, the brits nevertheless are a foreign government and

then saying hey, i have a political party running against me. i would like you guys to collect against those americans and then pass us that information. that is just not going to happen. the stuff that spicer and others may come up with, in terms of our other allies some administration, or the obama administration went outside the chain of command and asked a foreign intelligence agency to spy against an american citizen? come on, that is not common. >> and we can't get a comment on whether or not he discussed sanctions in russia when he was there haas your, -- last year, see his comments, what do you think? >> first, i think he ought to send me a check for ten grand, i am going to give him the best advice. get off the air. the fbi conducts the

investigation, in this case a counterintelligence investigation against russia, and carter page crops up. for the fbi to go up on a wire, listen to somebody's phone and e-mail is a serious invasion of privacy. they walk across the street to the department of justice, who have to say do we believe there is enough legal cause to put together a package to persuade a judge, we should listen to carter page's phone. party two, department of justice, party three, a federal judge, a federal judge looks at this and says you got to be kidding me. you want me to go up on a political operative on an ongoing presidential election? this better be good. carter page is blowing this off. they didn't go up on him unless they had fire, this is going to be you go sn. >> and we also got information on the fbi, page would not say

whether or not the fbi interviewed him yet. does it make sense they would have, and if so how would that go? how does that work? >> that was probably about the only thing i think from what i said, from what i saw that carter page said on the air when he demurred and didn't talk about the ongoing investigation. so i think he ought to take him up on the ten grand. they have identified somebody that looks like he eventually could be in a circle of power, close to the president years ago, to be essentially a spy for russia, that is not to say he accepted that proposal or even went very far. but i can tell you it looks an awful lot like operations i've seen targeting individuals who may have eventually been in positions of power.

>> he said look, i gave some documents to a guy who maybe later turned out to be a spy. they were innocuous documents, something that anybody could have gotten. but isn't that sort of how it begins? >> the russians are expert at this. right? you start saying give me something that is not sensitive, some lecture that you have given, some newspaper article you have written, and of course some thought piece. and you establish the idea that he established information with me, and perhaps later this can be more later. they're very, very good at it. >> and jeffrey lord is taking criticism, and cutting payments for the poor. working on my feet all day gave me pain here.

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democratic lawmakers making it clear they're ready to play hardball offer health care, today they say they're ready to tie payments to insurers to keep the government running beyond april 28th, these are the same payments the president told the

wall street journal he may halt to force them into a health care bill. payment is for millions of low insure americans who get obamacare. a cnn political commentator responded saying president trump's actions were compared to martin luther king jr. >> i want to say something here i know will probably drive some people crazy. think of president trump as the martin luther king jr. of health care. >> oh, jeffry, jeffrey. >> when i was a kid, kennedy did not want to introduce the civil rights bill because he said it was not popular. he didn't have the votes for it, et cetera. dr. king kept putting people in the street's in harm's way to put the pressure on so the bill would be introduced. >> jeffrey, you do understand that dr. king was marching for civil rights because people who look like me were being beaten. basic human rights were being

with held from these people merely because of the color of their skin. so let's not equate. >> i agree. >> dr. martin luther king jr., humanitarian, nobel prize winner, to vagina-grabbing president trump. >> all right, jeff, i want to give you a chance to explain exactly what you meant by your earlier comments. >> sure, i was not comparing president trump and dr. king. who by the way, is a hero of mine when i was a kid. i compared their strategy, dr. king, quite especially, and i knew that when i was talking about it on air this morning was talking about creating a crisis, let me read you the quick sentence here from his letter from a birmingham jail, which i'm well familiar with. quote, non-violent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such attention that a community, which is constantly refusing to negotiate is forced

to confront the issue. it seems to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. donald trump is not taking to the streets, he has the power of the presidency but clearly if he with holds payments from the insurance company which wall street said would result in a meltdown, that is a crisis. so he is doing the same thing, that is the crisis to get to a negotiation. that is the point. period. >> bakari, does it make sense to you? >> no, it doesn't make sense to me, donald trump has ushered in this culture of anti-intellectualism and ignorance, i think the argument is disingenuous at best. donald trump is trying to bring democrats to the table to gut a

piece of legislation which has insured many and saved lives. if he is successful, people will die in rural hospitals like the one i used to represent will close. dr. king, his end game was to get america to confront its racist past and give black citizens equality under the law. you cannot compare the two or juxtapose the two. i have a sincere problem with this because people often think in our political discourse, somehow ignorance can be cavalier. my father marched with dr. king, many were beaten and killed so i could sit here on this set today. the fact somebody who can make the comparison, even somebody a friend of mine shows just how low our political discourse has sunken. >> jeff, i know you isolate that line from his writing, the crisis it seemed to me, existed long before dr. king. the crisis was the treatment of black americans,

african-americans in this country. it was not a crisis manufactured by dr. king. >> right, right, exactly. and his letter was of course written in -- as a response to eight clergymen who were protesting as it were, his tactics. his strategy. so it was in answer to that because he said he was not getting anywhere in response. and this is what had to be done. i may add on a personali note. my father lost both his business and job when we stood up for black americans. so with all due respect i learned a great deal from it and i feel very passionate about it because my dad stood up and was there to be counted. and again, my friend bakari is playing the game here of changing the subject. i didn't say dr. king was donald trump, i said their strategy. >> strategy can be about anything. >> jeffrey, i'm not playing a game or using a race card. excuse me, i'm a black american citizen who stands on the

shoulders of people like dr. martin luther king jr. and the fact is from february first, 1960, when the students at north carolina anti-state university decided they were going to sit in and started something that was amaze willing t -- amazing, all the many heroes that we lost along the way during this struggle, the fact that you want to compare donald trump who is trying to find -- to make some political promise. >> you can't do that -- i did not compare him. >> to meet some political promise astounding and even more astoundingly absurd. the fact is this, jeffrey, in our political discourse we have to remove these hitler and nazi comparisons, donald trump is not martin luther king jr., we've taken it to a place where we need to be. i hope you're em pathetic enough to see how disrespectful it is. >> jeffrey, i just don't

understand the idea, again, the whole manufacturing a crisis thing i don't see how they're the same. >> that is because they're not. if you cause a major crisis in american society then the society and those people causing the crisis. >> dr. king did not cause a crisis. >> dr. king did not cause a crisis. tom brokaw had an amazing damon called boom, in 1968, dr. martin luther king jr. was assassinated. in 1968 we lost robert kennedy to assassination. he did not create a crisis, the crisis was that america did not want to confront its racist past and didn't want to cash that promissory note. and the fact that dr. king stood up for all that, you cannot whitewash that legacy.

>> bakari, you're making something up. i did not whitewash it. by the way, i stood in line to be by his casket, i was there. i don't know if you were old enough to be there. i stood up in the south in 1965. my dad most importantly stood up. i'm not going to sit here and let you conflate, i did not say martin luther king jr. and donald trump were the same. i said the strategy, and anybody can use these strategies, anybody for any reason, good, bad or indifferent, can cause a major crisis that forces the other side to negotiate. that is all i was saying. to deliberate misrepresent it is not worthy of you. >> dr. king died nearly 20 years before i was born. i am only 32 years old so i don't have the braveness to think i know everything. this is not a game to pass a piece of legislation.

these crises that you're talking about creating got four little girls blown up in a little church. these crises got people slaughtered and assassinated, including dr. martin luther king jr., so how dare you jeffrey utilize their lives and these crisis to make political points. >> bakari, again, you're just totally misrepresenting me and all i'm saying is dr. king said there was a reason to do what he was doing. which is to cause a crisis. quite deliberative and effective, and i was a teenager and i thought he was totally right on. >> to put a button on how intellectually dishonest this is and how you're perverting his legacy, dr. martin luther king jr. said of all the forms of in equality and justice, inequality and health is the most shocking and inhumane. so please understand dr. king and his context and to bring his name up when we dropped bombs on

syria and afghanistan, this man who was a pacifist, is beyond the pale, and i hope you have empathy. >> what he was fighting against was a democratic party that was created as a culture of race from supporting slavery and segregation, those were democrats he was fighting against, bakari, those were democrats. >> i want to give you the final thought. >> for me, anderson, when i saw jeffrey's clip this morning i was more than disappointed. this is indicative of where our political climate has gone, you hear them rewriting history and this is so fundamentally unjust, this is intellectually dishonest, an epidemic of anti-intellectualism. and even more important from somebody like jeffrey they need to know it's disrespectful. it's an affront, and i will not

let it go. >> i will not let it go either. well, coming up, a week of huge flip-flop for the president. we'll take a look at what is behind them next. you could fill a book with all the things you'll never learn from a book. expedia. everything in one place, so you can travel the world better.

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i want to borrow a quote, the president is president by standards. none until now has entered office saying so loud and so often that the job would be so easy, in fact, by his own admission the job is harder than president trump imagined. more from dana bash. >> one of donald trump's many memorable lines on the campaign trail was about isis. >> i would bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. i would just bomb those suckers. >> given that, launching the mother of all bombs against an isis target makes a lot of sense. >> we're very, very proud of our military. >> under normal circumstances, that consistency, a campaign vow with a high profile follow-through is standard, expected. but not with this president

during this week where a slew of his decisions and pronouncements were completely at odds with what he told voters. trump in may 2016. >> nato is obsolete. >> trump this week. >> i said it was obsolete. it's no longer obsolete. >> again, trump last may. >> china, which has been ripping us off, the greatest abuser in the history of this country. >> and trump this week. >> president xi wants to do the right thing, we had a very good bonding. >> during his campaign, trump repeatedly slammed federal reserve chair janet yellen. >> she is obviously political and doing what obama wants her to do. >> this week, the president changed his tune, telling "the wall street journal," i like her. changing positions is not new for donald trump. after all, not long before he

ran against abortion and abortion rights, he was pro-abortion. >> do you think the answer is still a single-payer system? >> no, i think we have to knock down the borders and let people compete. >> that kind of flip-flop would dog their campaign, but not donald trump. in fact, the president himself was introspective about it last week as he discussed military strikes. >> i like to think of myself as a very flexible person. i don't have to have one specific way. and if the world changes i go the same way. >> to be sure, on many of his 180s from nato to syria the world has not changed so the question is what has? sources close to trump tell me there are several ways to answer that. >> first, the obvious. he is a novice to politics and

foreign policy who is getting a high stakes on the job education leading him to change some views. second, he is always a businessman driven to get results, not by idea olgsology. he didn't think nato was getting the job done, now that he is involved he thinks he will. new -- both have the president's he ear, both supportive by nato. some think he is influenced by the last person who talked to him. others say that is not quite right. a senior official says he is swayed by the most compelling argument he hears regardless of who delivers it or when it's delivered. anderson? >> it has been a bumpy week to

say the least for white house strategist steve bannon, who reportedly is on the way out because of a power struggle. we'll talk to glenn beck ahead.

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tonight, there are a lot of stories swirling with bannon who putangry.

the reason why he said that and

it connected with a lot of people, not me, but a lot of people and it connected because there were people out in the countries that really donald trump was their lost hope. i haven't had a raise since 2001. who is going to understand it? how do they feel today when the president reverses all of this policy and that's where they put their stock that i'm going to get a jump -- my job is coming back or i'm going to get a better job. he's just abandoned a lot of people. >> he's abandoned people and things he stood by and said very loudly and very effectively on the campaign trail. the currency manipulator and nato is obsolete even though nothing has changed with nato, it's just the president has changed, but he doesn't acknowledge that he's changed. i keep thinking about the republican candidates who were against him in the primary who

were kind of -- had policy positions and were sort of trying to be presidential and stand by by positions and donald trump very fectively, obviously, but was able to basically take some very extreme positions and kind of make fun of the others, but now has adopted the very positions he ran against and effectively won against. >> this is so far -- i mean, i can't speak for tomorrow, but for today so far it's not my worst nightmare. my worst nightmare was that the president would turn to steve bannon and he'd go down this burn it to the ground ideology. the good news is he's not going that way, but the next question is where is he going? is he going left? he's not going conservative. who is he going to have left in the end? who's going to believe him? this is why i warned my audience

and america that he doesn't have a core. he goes for the win. that can be dangerous if things start to fall apart economically or in the world. but it -- tonight at least, it looks -- the president is on the verge of beginning to look like another republican who said stuff, didn't mean it, and turned into reince priebus or paul ryan and that's not good, but i remembered, anderson, what president bush said to me. i was in the oval office the day that candidate obama said that he would just fly over the boarders in pakistan and if he had to he would bomb pakistan. at the same time pakistan was an important ally and i remember thinking you don't bomb an ally. in took on real weight because

it was said by the president and he pointed to his desk in the oval office and he said don't worry, whoever occupies that seat behind that desk, man or woman, will quickly find out that their hands are tied and they'll end up doing almost exactly as i have done. >> that's interesting. >> that looks like maybe that's true. >> right. it's the same thing with barack obama talking about closing down gitmo. we heard from the president i didn't know health care would be so hard and he got lectured for ten minutes on china and america relations. >> i get it. >> glenn beck, it's good to talk to you. >> good to talk to you, anderson thank you. coming up, the latest on the attack on isis targets in afghanistan. the u.s. military dropping its most powerful nonnuclear

military bomb ever. we'll be right back.

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