this knowing him. >> the idea that -- is it a done deal that this will answer everybody's questions? to the point that our panelists were making, it could end with mueller determining there's no actual law that was broken. democrats could still say, what about there are -- seems like there's acts of collusion. whether they are illegal or not, it's a question of are they appropriate. answer to that is i don't know at this point. i'm not sure that answer is knowable at this point. mueller is in addition to being an accomplished prosecutor, he is expressed in washington and in the world. he understands the importance of the larger questions here, independent of the criminal culpability of any individual. he will be aware of the need for some sort of public disclosure. whether he files a report, how he makes a public disclosure, i

don't know what the answer is. i don't know if he knows at this point. certainly -- allan was saying we will never know. he will either indict or fold up shop. i don't know that's the case. >> i can tell you the fear in the white house is that there will be answers to questions we didn't know we had. that's the fear of a special prosecutor. the other thing that i want to add to the idea of him lawyering up, that my understanding is that the advice that he is going to get is he should do that immediately, not just for his own personal legal reasons but also to protect the white house staff in a way they haven't been protected. your friend lanny davis was taking all the incoming during the clinton administration, and at least the white house staff could deflect to him in a way this white house staff has not been able to do. >> when the white house put out statements, three sentences. no collusion. i look forward to being resolved quickly.

i will never start fighting for what matters. the sentence not in there, i and my staff and i will cooperate fully. he is going to have to. he is making a huge mistake by not by not volunteering he will cooperate fully. there's evidence that will be subpoenaed. you don't have an option. witnesses that will be called. he should pledge full cooperation. the fact that he has not tells me something. >> he will fully cooperate. >> why do you say so? >> let me tell you the individuals who should be scared. as we know this investigation has wide lat dude. it can go any which way. the folks who should be frightened are the leakers who have committed felonies, who have endangered national security. not the trump administration. there's no evidence of russian collusion. people point to carter page who never met president trump, who was given a cease and desist order. there's zero evidence. this is not going to -- >> when you say he is going to cooperate, you don't know what the white house response is going to be. >> they are going to cooperate. that statement indicates we know

that president trump when he is not going to cooperate with something, he says it. >> he has said, his attitude toward the investigations has been if they want to investigate, they can investigate. he has nerve given a full throated we are going to give them all the information they want statement. >> he said just last week i want this to be fully vetted. i want it to be wrapped up quickly. >> remember in washington, people change dance partners frequently. but rarely do they change dances and our teams. what's happening now, everybody is saying, mueller is this great guy and we all like him. i have a feeling two months from now people are going to be saying, what's he doing going after tony podesta and the uranium deal? everybody will have paul's reaction. >> try not to -- >> i can't tell if that's a joke or -- >> how did monica lewinsky end up being one of the victims of a real estate investigation called

whitewater? we never really know which direction they're go going in. they have broad latitude. >> that's really an important point, actually. and brother begala certainly knows this because i used to visit him in the west wing. you don't know where this is going to go. once you have someone with subpoena power -- ken star's investigation began with a land deal in arkansas. it wound up with monica lewinsky. >> since you lived through that to the congressman's point what does it do to a white house? you talked about president clinton's ability to compartmentalize? you said he had a remarkable ability, but what does it do to white house for people who want the president's legislative agenda to move forward? >> there are good people in that building who will become collateral damage. this president will throw them under the bus. they need to do what president clinton did, which is

compartmentalize. it was a well run shot at that point. we weren't at the early stages like president trump is where you're going to have a lot of bumping. there were very few people -- i was one of them -- assigned to impeachment. everybody else had to do their job. if you talked about it in a meeting, you were punished, you were chastised. people stayed in their lanes. we call it the parallel universe. if you were not part of the parallel universe -- >> doesn't seem there's a lot of lanes. we have to take a break. we are continuing -- we're going to continue to bring all the latest tonight. let's go to pamela brown for the latest on this story. pamela? >> the latest is that rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general wanted to make sure he didn't give a warning to the white house and to the attorney general jeff sessions about this decision to appoint bob mueller as special counsel. in fact, the white house was basically blind sided by this, only finding out half an hour before the announcement and

after bob mueller had signed the order that he would take over the russia probe. it's clear that rod rosenstein wanted to do this by the book, that is a big reason why he didn't give that advance warning. and we're told, anderson, that this decision to do this had been in the works for several days, at least after the firing of the fbi director james comey. in fact, we know bob mueller was at the justice department the day after meeting with rosenstein. as of late friday, he was telling people that he didn't feel a need to appoint a special counsel. he felt like unless the fbi investigation was imperiled, there was no need. but clearly there have been new revelations including the one yesterday that the president allegedly told james comey that he wanted him to stop the flynn probe back in february. it raises the question if that

was a tipping point for this or sort of how that factored into all of this. >> making this decision today, he had stated he didn't think a special counsel was needed. >> that's exactly right. he had been telling those people that around him that i don't think it's needed despite the growing pressure from capitol hill, despite the democrats in particular were saying that he needed to do so or resign, he wasn't letting the pressure get to him according to sources. he said he was resisting calls for a special counsel. it does make you believe that the latest revelation about james comey's memos did play a role in this decision to in fact bring bob mueller on board as special counsel and remove the justice department from the investigation. >> to be clear, there's a possibility the president of the united states would have to testify in some way or be interviewed. >> oh, absolutely.

he could be deposed, depending on what bob mueller sees fit in the investigation. he will have all the authority to convene a grand jury, he can issue subpoenaed, he can certainly have the president interviewed as part of this investigation. whatever he thinks is necessary. >> as part of this investigation, would he be looking into the idea of obstruction of justice? >> he very well could. what could be telling here is if the comey memos are released. if they're not, if he doesn't want them released that could be an indication that he is looking at whether the president tried to interfere in the investigation and obstruct justice. so he would want to keep the memose priebt, close hold because they would be a key part of the investigation. we're not sure if that is the direction he wants to go in. that's something to look out for. >> thanks. for new reaction, let's go to jim acosta. what is the white house saying tonight? >> i just talked to a white house official who describes staffers as exhausted. because of the last 72 hours of bombshell announcements.

the russia news came down monday when it was revealed that the president talked about classified information with russian officials. then last night's news about the comey memo in which the retired -- excuse me, the former fbi director said that the president tried to shut down the flynn investigation. then, of course, the news that is coming down tonight that bob mueller, the special counsel, in the russia investigation. i think one other very interesting point to point out -- i just got this from administration official, that the attorney general jeff sessions was here at the white house when the mueller news came down. the president and his attorney general jeff sessions were very much in the dark whether this when this news came down from the justice department that a special counsel had been named. at the same time, we should point out the response from the white house, coming from the president is very restrained, very toned down. let's put this statement up if

we can just to show you how restrained this is. no shots taken out of anybody here. here is the president saying, as have i stated many times, a thorough investigation will confirm what we know. there was no collusion between my campaign and any foreign entity. he goes on to say, like forward to this matter concluding quickly. will never stop fighting for the people and the issues that matter to the future of our country. president trump is going to be waking up to a different world tomorrow. that is because he cannot as he did with the former fbi director call him over to white house for a meeting, for a dinner and try to apply pressure on him. he cannot do that obviously with bob mueller, the special prosecutor. over last several hours since this came down, his credentials, his reputation is beyond any question. >> jim acosta, appreciate the update. not everyone is surprised by the way president trump has been behavingilately. tony schwartz spent a year with

donald trump writing "the art of the deal." in a new op-ed he says president trump is doing what citizen trump did, reacting impulsively and blaming others and inventing stories that don't depend on facts. knowing the president like you did -- you spent a lot of time over the course of that year. how do you think he is handling and has handled all of this information, but also the news of a special council being appointed? >> i think he's in a pretty significant melt down, anderson. i think that the sense of siege that he feels because his sense of self-worth is so, so vulnerable that the series of things that have happened have been overwhelming to him. i think he is reacting from, as i say in the piece, i think he's reacting from a survival place. i think he is being run by the part of his brain that is reactive and impulsive, not

capable of reflection. and i think he's in pure defensive mode. >> i want to go deeper on that. because one of the things you write about, and this is based on i your experiences with him over so long a period of time and getting into his head. you basically wrote he lives in his life in survival mode. every interaction with him, it's about winning it or losing it. it's a binary choice. you either win or lose. this goes back his entire life. >> yeah. it goes to his very early childhood with a very brutal, difficult father with whom by his own definition he had a business relationship. and guess what? from the perspective of attachment, you can't grow up in a healthy way if you lack love from a parent. the only parent he valued was his father. his father overpowered his mother as well. >> it's interesting.

his father is the only photograph he has behind his desk in the oval office or at least did for a long time. >> yeah. i mean, i think there's a kind of family kind of loyalty. it's been fascinating to me to watch and evidence of his meltdown is the fact he started to scream as jared kushner. i think his kids are next. his boys he doesn't need to worry about or blame because they're not part of it right now. i can honestly easily see him going after ivanka if she says the wrong thing right now. one of the things i say in the piece is that i remember very vividly when i was working with him how terrified people would be of going up against him in any way when he was feeling -- when you could sense he was feeling the way i guarantee you he is feeling right now. >> you point to the fact that the hundreds of phone calls you listened in on with his consent i should point out, in all those meetings you to with him, you

never remembered anyone ever disagreeing with him to his face. does he want anyone to disagree with him? that's one of the questions, does he have people around him who can say, you shouldn't get on the twitter machine right now or you should not say this? >> this is the most important thing. we have normalized a person who is not in any way normal. i recognize that there are plenty of critics now out there. but this is not a person operating according to ordinary human expectations. >> i would push back on that. is anyone who reaches the level of president operating -- to do what it takes to get to that level, it's an extraordinary level of achievement. i'm not sure it's the normal -- >> no question. what he lacks as i say because he was so involved in defending himself and still is, is he lacks the qualities that you ordinarily see in someone as they mature, as they grow more secure. he lacks empathy, the ability to really connect with other people, self-awareness and above all a conscience.

a clear distinction between right and wrong. there is no right and wrong for trump. there is winning and losing. that's very different than right and wrong. right now, he is in pure terror that he is going to lose. by the way, he is going to lose. i surely believe that at some point over the next period of time, haeds going to have to figure out a way to resign. the reason he is going to do that as opposed to go through what could be an impeachment process or a continuing humiliation is that he wants to figure out a way as he has done all his career to turn a loss into a victory. so he will declare victory when he leaves. >> you wrote that beneath his exterior, you sense, quote, a hurt incredibly vulnerable little boy who wanted to be

loved. a lot of people might be surprised to hear that. my interviews with him and other people i have talked to who have spent time with him, there's a need of him -- i have never met somebody at his level who does kind of look for approval in some way from -- you know, if you give him a compliment, you can see it wash over him. >> no question. he lives in deficit. i describe him in this piece as a black hole. you pour adulation and achievement and conquest into him and it just pours out the other end. it doesn't stick. all i think he wants is for people to love him. that's really dangerous. he wants people to love him and to adore him so much that he would like not to have any dissent. he would like not to have a free press because they criticize him. he would like not to be involved

in being president in a democracy because that allows people to disagree with him. those authoritarian instincts are psychological and emotional, not ideological. >> i remember something you tweeted out, it might have been a year ago. it stuck in my mind. i have always thought about this when i read the president's tweets or things he says. the criticisms he makes of others, the attacks he launched on our people, the adjectives -- i don't want to paraphrase you too much. but the adjectives he uses to attacks other people, is what he thinks of himself. when he calls comey a grandstander, it's what he thinks of himself. when he says somebody is weak, that's what he worries about himself. am i characterizing what you said correctly? >> very accurately. it's projecting on to others what he sees in himself and cannot own or must disown. that is if you look at his tweets, it would be wonderful for somebody to do a ph.d. thesis on this. if you look at his tweets, any ones that relate to other

people, can find a pattern and a very accurate self-portrait. i would love to see somebody do that. the attacks are exactly -- young would have called this the shadow. they are the aspects of himself that he finds most intolerable. >> i am never going to have a ghostwriter. you know everything about your subject. i don't want anybody to know me this well. >> i'm never going to do it again. don't worry. >> you seem affected by it as well. i appreciate you being with us. that's a washington post op-ed. it's interesting. it's fascinating to hear from tony. >> can i say, my colleague at the new yorker did a piece with tony before the campaign. it was when tony sort of first -- his insights into trump's character are so amazing. i think that interview -- it whetted people's appetite.

"the washington post" got that piece. this guy really knows trump better than almost anybody who has written about him. >> we shouldn't overstate some of the psychological things. i think it goes too far to say that every insult he throws really is looking at himself in the mirror. we have to be very careful in kind of psychology -- >> there's a pattern to the insults he gives to other people. it does make you wonder why are these -- why is winning such a big -- >> if you listen to him, you would think this guy would have ended up in bankruptcy court somewhere. >> no. i think -- >> not being a very great success. >> i think the opposite. i think most people who attain a great level of success are unhappy. it comes from a deep place of longing and need. i speak from someone who is relatively successful. >> would you like to go off the

couch? >> you are speaking about us, too. >> you know. go ahead. >> there's one other interesting thing that, of course, tony wrote about in the book the art of the deal, because he had to come up with a way, he says -- he has written about this and talked to us about it. to describe the president's, let's call it, special relationship with the truth. he called it truthful hyperbole, which is his way as he says of figuring out how to say donald trump was lying which he did quite frequently without saying that he was lying. when he presented it to donald trump and said, look, this is the way i'm going to talk about you and i'm going to say you engage in truthful hyperbole, trump thought this was a great idea. this was the best thing that he had ever heard. he kind of gave him a rationale for not telling the truth for which i think tony feels forever regretful. >> we should say -- the president is charming one on

one. i enjoy talking to him as many people who do interview him do enjoy talking to him. in terms of what's happening now, political transgressions are not necessarily legal trancegressions. robert mueller's job is not to parse president trump's qualities as a leader. you can expect members of congress are going to continue to do that. >> right. i think this is a really important point to remember. telling the truth is actually really important when you are under investigation and you are put under oath. if you look back to what got president clinton ultimately in trouble, it was perjuring with him. i think that the fact that he often -- president trump often does i think what tony said, invention of stories. i would say he maybe doesn't always remember things exactly the way they happened. we could think of inauguration day would be a good example of that when he kept insisting the

crowds were a certain size when they weren't. when you are put under oath and you start having problems telling the truth, i think you can get into a lot of trouble. you also have a white house that i don't think anyone would accuse of being run like a well oiled machine. that's not even -- i'm not trying to be critical. it's a new white house. who are going to be thrust into an investigation where you have to have all your ducks in a row. you have to answer honestly and clearly. you wonder what kind of problems could come out of this from them not answering those questions accurately. >> if president trump had not fired james comey, do you think he would face this special counsel investigation tonight? >> i don't think he would. if you look at james comey's integrity. people i talked to question his judgment over the past year, some of the comments he made about hillary clinton after he closed the case. nobody questioned the guy's integrity or his drive. i don't think, especially after president trump humiliated the

law enforcement and intelligence community, investigators and analysts, would ever let this bone go. i think if comey were there -- somebody said the firing of james comey got the white house in a worse position. i agree. he would have proceeded with this. the white house can't get ten feet way from this. robert mueller, who i know personally, won't let him within ten feet. >> you have reporting about how this transpired for rosenstein. >> we reported this real time last week, which i know seems like two years ago. it was when he was basically thrown under the bus from his perspective about the comey firing. he was blamed, they put out a memo saying it was just him. that's when he started to get angry with the white house. it continued. i talked to a republican source in touch with him who said he was to the point where he was going to pack his bags. he was done. that continued to escalate to the point where he was very reluctant to go to congress. he is going to go to congress.

i don't have any indication that that's been canceled tomorrow. he is meeting behind closed doors with the senate. he wanted to distance himself with this white house and to be the point person on this white -- on this investigation of this white house. that was a big reason. the question now is whether or not james comey is now going to testify publically as this time yesterday, we were all talking about that that was the next big thing. republicans in congress said they wanted him to come and really explain himself before the public about what he said in those memos that the president asked him to do that was clearly allegedly inappropriate. just to finish, i think that the thing that we need to remember though is to connect the dots to the truth, to my reporting tonight, and to the big bombshell news tonight is that this whole question of collusion that james comey testified about that got the president angry in march, all of that could be small potatoes at the end of the day. i'm getting tweets, questions about whether or not james --

robert mueller will be able to get the president's tax returns. he said, if he thinks it's relevant, sure. this could expand and mushroom to a place the president couldn't even have dreamed when he fired -- >> we talked about this before. you were giving advice to the president, you would say get a lawyer? >> i would say not only get a lawyer but i think he has to understand that he has to be told that a grand jury investigation is not a search for truth. a trial is not a search for truth. if it were, we wouldn't say this. we wouldn't keep evidence out that is truthful but obtained unlawfully. a grand jury proceeding is a search for admissible evidence on one side. it is the most fundamental denial of civil liberties. civil liberties is often the first casually of partisan

politics. nobody is here speaking up on behalf of civil liberties. even if you are opposed to trump, i don't like the precedence that gets set by going after people in an unfair way. they have dropped the ball on this. they are after trump. somebody has to speak up on behalf of the civil liberties of all americans. they take secret testimony. they don't have a lawyer. you can't rebut the evidence. they don't consider the evidence in your favor. let's not glorify grand jury proceedings. >> allen doesn't like grand juries. there are lots of responsible prosecutors out there. bob mueller is a responsible prosecutor. he is looking for admissible evidence in a possible trial. he is trying to figure out what happened. i think that is an honorable thing. he is an honorable person. and i expect that's what he'll do. >> i agree.

>> to go back to the question you asked which is what advice would you give donald trump. the advice you would give, whether he would follow is, is don't talk about this subject. say it's under investigation. >> which is what he could have said. >> all along. what he should have said. >> if you have a lawyer, don't necessarily announce it. it doesn't have to be a lawyer who is well-known. just somebody who is experienced and you can go to confidentially and discreetly and get advice. i suspect he may have such a person. he is not tweeting and talking as much. >> do you think congressional republicans tonight are just breathing a big sigh of relief? >> well, it depends. if you think he is innocent, then you should be breathing a sigh of relief. i think that if ultimately this investigation is seen all the way through, this is a result that would be accepted by most people. maybe not bipartisan democrats. you have nancy pelosi who wants an independent commission. as compared to the investigations that are going on on the hill, which most people see as partisan.

most people say this say respected person and whatever he finds would be accepted. if he's not innocent, and i think obviously there's a lot to be concerned about. because this is somebody with very broad authority that has good reputation, and if something is there he's going to find it. >> we have to -- we have more ahead including late reaction from capitol hill where lawmakers have been grappling with the investigation. more on why the choice of why robert mueller is drawing bipartisan praise.

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the naming of a special counsel came as republican lawmakers began signaling acceptance. in some ways it takes the pressure off. at the same time the congressional probes do continue. in a moment we will speak with one of the congress members who was part of it. first, wider reaction on the capitol hill. what have you been hearing on the hill tonight? >> positive reaction up here on capitol hill. really that has already gone a long way in lowering the temperature up here. we heard from democrats and republicans really praising this choice saying that bob mueller is someone who is very well respected. has a long history of integrity, someone who basically is a known commodity to a lot of the lawmakers up here. we heard earlier this evening from the chair of the senate intelligence committee richard burr and the ranking member mark warner who are leading their own investigation senate side praising this pick.

they said in a statement, quote, the appointment of former fbi and respected lawyer robert mueller as special council of the russian investigation is a positive development and will provide some certainty for the american people that the investigation will proceed fairly and free of political influence. the senate select committee on intelligence will continue its own investigation and the extent any deconfliction is required. so emphasises in that statement very clear their investigation will not say stop, it continues. and they expect to have some sort of engagement as going forward with director mueller. >> the senate intelligence committee will work with mueller during investigation. there are other investigations into russia's meddling. do we know what happens to those? >> there are multiple layers. those will continue to go on. that work doesn't stop.

it works in tandem with what mueller will be working on. starting to be working on. i think there's a real sense and a feeling up here on capitol hill that what that does is it takes a little pressure off those who are working up here on capitol hill. as you know, there's been a daily drip of news and lawmakers have had to respond to every little movement of this story. this might give them a sense of some room to work as they work on their own investigations. we heard from one republican congressman who's on the house intelligence committee looking into the russia ties, and he says he believes the move would help diffuse the ret aric on capitol hill, that everything up here has become so partisan. and he thinks this choice of this particular council goes a long way to diffuse that. >> more now from capitol hill. shortly before air time, i spoke with eric swalwell. first i want to get your

reaction to the naming of a special council in the russian investigation. >> it's welcome news, anderson. this investigation was disrupted last week when president trump fired the chief investigator, director comey. i hope this say way to get that investigation back on track and that the american people can learn whether anyone in the united states worked with russia during its interference campaign. >> you called for an independent commission to investigate russian interference. is that no longer necessary with tonight's news? >> more necessary than ever. that's the other part of the solution here. an independent commission looks forward and we know from the intelligence community that russia intends to attack us again. so this would be a commission that would be charged with understanding how we were so vulnerable, whether any u.s. persons were involved, but most importantly what reforms are necessary so that future elections are secure.

right now, i don't think that can happen anywhere other than in an independent commissioner. >> you are saying a special counsel is just investigating the legality of what may have occurred in the past and the independent commission would look forward, although, would you want independent commission to also look at russian interference or potential collusion? >> an independent commission would look at of course whether any u.s. persons were involved. the 9/11 commission is the best example. it looked at how we were so vulnerable, what the response was and what reforms were there. the department of justice is charged with looking backward at a crime that may have occurred. they should still do that. people are concerned that we're going to find ourselves in a mess like this again. either because of russia will attack us or other countries with similar capabilities will come at us. we owe it to the american people to make sure we're never in a mess like this again. >> does the naming of a special council remove any concerns about the filling of the

investigation of the russian interference? >> certainly on the criminal prosecution side. bob mueller is an individual with the highest integrity. i am more at ease today about the criminal side. the duty to protect the ballot box and the integrity of free and fair elections, that's on us. that's on congress. we should not shirk that responsibility. >> have you heard from your republican colleagues about this appointment? >> i have not. two republicans have supported our legislation for an independent commission. today we have forced a vote on it. we have started the process to force a vote. the speaker of the house will not bring it forward. we are hoping we have enough signatures. >> i want to ask you about "the washington post" reported they have a reporting of kevin mccarthy last june saying, quote, there's two people i think putin pays rohrabacher and trump. what's your reaction to that? >> well, it's a concerning comment from the house majority

leader. i ask first, is he speaking with personal knowledge? if so, did he pass this along to anyone? i was concerned that the speaker is accused of saying let's keep this in the family and not let this outside of this circle of people. to me, we're all very concerned about the allegations of ties between donald trump to russia. we have not seen any action from house or senate republicans to get to the bottom of what happened and what we can do to make sure we're never in a position like this again. it's not a joke to me. that's the defense. this is serious stuff. the american people expect a serious response. >> appreciate your time. thanks. >> my pleasure. more perspective from david gergen who served in the nixon white house among others. carl bernstein and jason miller. david, you said on this program last night, i think we're in impeachment territory for the first time. how does naming robert mueller special council affect your thinking on that?

>> i think it's the same conclusion, anderson. i do think it's very good news for the country. this is the first time the administration has moved in such a way as to give us reassurance the investigations will be carried out fairly, carefully and with -- letting the facts go where they might. at the same time, i do think this is so -- it's obvious we're seeing a pattern that this investigation is broadening from what it originally was which was about is there possible cuclusion to did the white house or did the president personally try to impede or influence the outcome of the investigation that was then underway? if so, did he break any laws? what we know in robert mueller in in addition to being so respected, he will have enormous authority here. if he decides -- the justice department now has given up to mueller the right to decide who should be prosecuted and who

shouldn't. those are big decisions for a prosecutor. also mueller is going to be the one to decide now whether the president has broken any law and if so what should be done. for white house, that is not good news. special prosecutors have a way of digging in and gradually finding things they didn't even know were there to start with. the investigations can sway off into a different direction. as you will recall, the bill clinton years, when -- i thought dreadful investigation started into his -- into whitewater. it eventually led us to ken star and to monica lewinsky. that's not where it started. that's what -- the trump white house has lost control over the outcome of the investigation. >> do you worry about that? i mean where our special prosecutor ends up going? >> i think there is a responsibility both from democrats and from the media first and foremost to not treat this as a solution in search of a problem. for everyone who has been

clamoring for a special counsel, we have to let it run its course. there's a bigger, broader point for the administration here. too much good news has been getting drowned out for the past couple of weeks. we talk about immigration being down 70%. we talk about unemployment being at a ten-year low. all the great things are happening aren't getting picked up. clear, this is really engulfed everything in the administration because of the media barrage. this is an opportunity to reset the narrative. now it's in the hands of a special counsel. >> that does require the president not to continue to comment on and not to continue -- it requires discipline from the president. >> look, i think both the president and the administration is smart enough to realize there's some aspect of this that will try to leak information and trying to get him. this is why i went back to the point where it's so important for the special counsel, democrats, even members of the media -- we can't let this become a solution in search of a problem. the administration now has to get back to the core messages to help the president win this past fall, taxes, trade, immigration,

defeating isis. when he is talking about these issues, in particular before the big international trip -- if this news had broke while he was on that trip or immediately coming back, that would have wiped out all the good coverage i think there will be from seeing president trump on the world stage. they have to treat this as an opportunity. they have to be very focused going forward. >> apologize for coughing. what do you see her here? >> what ron did here is he threw a monkey wrench into a coverup at white house. we have never known what the coverup was about. what it is that the president or those around him in his campaign have been trying to keep us from knowing. and why comey was fired for trying to find out what that was about. we are going to find out, because there now is a real investigation that the president of the united states can no longer control. it's a great moment in which the

country can finally say, we're pulling back from this terribly dangerous moment in which the rule of law was being flouted. it looked like there was very little possibility that the rule of law would prevail. now there's a real chance that it will prevail. also, the press -- what the press has done here by seeking the best obtainable version of the truth through four months of the trump presidency is directly responsible for finally getting a mechanism in place for which the rule of law can prevail. the press, particularly "the times," "the washington post," "the wall street journal," and cnn as well have done nothing heroic. they've just done their jobs. the result is that we now have broken a coverup and we have a

chance to find out what has happened. >> i have to jump in and make one point. if you go back and look at deputy director -- the deputy ag, his comment tonight. he made very clear in announcing the spial counsel that there had not been -- this was not an indication that something illegal or improper had happened. it was the fact that they're going to continue going through this and make sure they do a thorough job. it's important to point that out. the core fundamental criticism here, attack or whatever you want to call it, is that there was some type of coordination between the campaign and a foreign entity. so far, there hasn't been one shred of evidence that been put forward saying that's the case. we have a special counsel that will go through. we have an obligation to not rush to and jump to conclusions now that it's in the hands of a special true. >> that's true. there's no need to jump to conclusions. the conclusion that we had very solid evidence of was that the white house was trying to prevent the truth from being known both to the public and to investigators.

that's what the firing of comey was about. we have now jumped a big fence, jason. we now have a mechanism in place in which the rule of law has a real chance of succeeding. that's all i'm saying. without prejudging. >> david, i want you to have the final word. >> i must agree with carl. i do want to add one note. the center of gravity in this investigation and what we know seems to be more serious, there may not be collusion or it may be vague or whatever it is. but the evidence is piling up that the president was particularly anxious to protect general flynn. we have learned tonight from the "new york times" that flynn told people on the trump team weeks before yates came over that he was under federal investigation for his lubying on behalf of turkey. >> yeah, cnn has not

independently confirmed that yet. >> i'm glad you told me that. nonetheless, there's growing evidence that trump -- he fired keimy after. he asked comey to drop the investigation against flynn. he has been very solicitous about flynn. flynn seems at the center of this. what is trump's relationship with flynn? why are we looking at what we're looking at? >> david, carl, jason, thanks very much. what we know about the man who has chosen to lead the russia investigation. this is b'. and bill has a "no-weeds, not in my yard" policy. but with scotts turf builder weed & feed, bill has nothing to worry about. it kills weeds and greens grass, guaranteed. this is a scotts yard.

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it may have come as a surprise to the white house and the country that a special co lawmakers it is my honor to nominate robert mueller of california to become the member of the fbi. >> it was in 2001 that robert mueller began his tenure as director. he joined the marine corps where he served with honor in vietnam as an officer, following his military service he went to law school, then a litigator, then

ultimately a federal prosecutor. the day after the 9/11 attacks the director said this. >> the first objective is to identify each of the hijackers on each of the planes. having identified the hijackers on each of the planes we then have sought to identify any of their associates remaining in the united states. >> the nation was in chaos. weeks after the attacks, congress passed and president bush signed the controversial patriot act which enhanced law enforcement investigative tools including domestic surveillance and increased the opportunity to punish terrorist acts in the u.s. three years later, though, the bill's passage led to a showdown involving mueller, he received a call from deputy attorney general james comey that president bush's counsel, alb t alberto gonzales was on his way to the hospital to persuade a key act.

but the justice department had determined it was against the law, so comey with mueller's blessing, raced to the hospital to stop gonzales. >> i was angry, i felt i had the ability to take advantage of a very sick man who didn't have the powers, that were given to me. >> both comey and mueller looked at resigning, but were persuaded to stay. bob mueller served as fbi director for 12 years, for two presidents, george w. bush and barack obama. >> i want to thank your outstanding director. robert mueller. not just for the introduction, but because bob has led the bureau during incredibly challenging times. >> mueller has most recently been a partner in a private law firm and a visiting professor at stanford. he now will leave those positions to take on this new

and important responsibility. gary tuchman, cnn, atlanta. and the cnn analyst worked with mueller, who was his chief of staff in 2009. is he the right person for the job? >> absolutely, there is no one better suited in this country for this role at this time. >> why do you say that? >> because if you look at the authority that the deputy attorney general exercised here and what is required under the statute. the person has to be outside the department of justice, has a reputation for integrity and partial decision-making. and be guided by only doj policy, that is the department of justice policy and the law in exercising his authority. that is the person -- bob mueller is the epitome of those characteristics. >> what in terms of not being partisan -- he is down the middle? >> absolutely.

he is guided by no party. by no political ideology. he is guided by the facts and the law and will apply those without fear or favor. >> what does this mean -- how does this investigation under mueller work? what exactly does his role entail? how does he work with the fbi? obviously there will be an fbi director who heads the fbi. so the responsibilities -- >> it's interesting, bob mueller is perfect for this role because he occupied every one of those jobs. he has been a prosecutor, a u.s. attorney, heading a team of prosecutors. he has been the deputy attorney general just before he was named the fbi director, the relationship, so he understands what the relationships are and all the to be under the appropriate institutional norms under the fbi and the department of justice, i imagine what he will do is get on the job and make sure he has a team that he is comfortable with. that he has the resources he

needs to do a thorough and competent job. and he is going to be the chief prosecutor. that is what the special counsel role is. he is responsible for identifying if there have been violationins of the law and makg judgments about that. the fbi is the investigator. their job is solely to gather the facts and present those to the prosecutor or prosecutors and bob mueller and his team to make prosecuting judgments. >> at the end of his discussion, there were discussions on whether mueller, if he decides to prosecute, obviously, then there will be evidence and that will be made public. if he decides not to does he just say there is no illegality here, nothing to prosecute, or do you think he would make some sort of description of what he found, given the public's interest in this? >> one thing i am very confident of, however it ends up and

however, whatever determination he makings es he will be guided the department of justice and what the policy allows. he will not stray out of what those requirements are. so he could potentially decide i imagine to make a report if there is no investigative judgment rendered. but that will be within the norms of the justice department. >> lisa monaco, thank you very much. >> i just want to kmncomment on that story that david gergen reported on, that he was a paid lobbyist for the campaign, he said this yet he still got the national security adviser job. he still was asked to serve. joining us, our panel, all three have been doing some great reporting about the mood of this white house in the past few

days. jim acosta, do you have any thoughts on this, kellyanne conway cancelled her appearance. >> i think if they're reluctant to go on fox news and prime time that is an indication of where they are right now. they're in the bunker, the president and his top advisers inner the bunker, although we should point out the white house has released its schedule tomorrow. he will take a couple of questions from the u.s. press, a couple from the colombian press, he could get asked about this tomorrow although we have seen in the past although it has not been every case in the news conference, he will call on every outlet in order to avoid answering questions. that will be very telling to look at at the white house if it indeed happens as scheduled. at the same time i can tell you from talking to staffers here they are feeling exhausted as one staffer put to me this evening, anderson, there were 72 hours of a bombshell dropping at

5:45 in the evening, the question is just how much more will they take from this? and keeping in mind this is all heading to the president's first foreign trip where he heads overseas. not going to places where you know the questions will be easy, where the questions will be tough. he will meet with the israelis and the saudis, and meeting with nato, the alliance that he called obsolete in the past. so the road does not get easier for this president. >> gloria numbers t, in the days leading up to this, it will be interesting to see if he blames others. >> if you talk to people who have known him well for decades and people who know him and talked to him regularly, they all say to a person he doesn't ever blame himself. as for this particular situation i have been talking to people who say that the president is blaming everybody right now. that he doesn't seem to have

faith in any inside the white house. and that the word that was used to me to describe multiple staffers inside the white house, is disconsulate. these are people who are exhausted but they don't know what the legal ramifications are for them, or whether or not the president will be able to push his agenda. who don't know from day-to-day whether the president is going to be up against a wall. and continue to lash out at people inside the white house. or -- and blame them for his own problems, which he created, by the way. i mean, these are his own self-destructive impulses that they are trying to deal with. >> and what is the latest you're hearing from your sources tonight about how white house staffers are reacting to the announcement of a special prosecutor and they have a strategy on this and how they're doing. >> our understanding is they presented a pretty united front when they brought this news to president trump. the word we're getting is this

brought people together, which is certainly sounding like a message the white house wants to push. we saw the statement, it was measured. it didn't include any of those asides, like the comey letter famously did. like jim said, you can't overstate what a difficult week this has been for the white house. the communications team has been embattled. they had the president last week questioning their credibility. this was supposed to be a quiet week preparing for this big international trip. and instead they're dealing with the crisis after crisis after crisis with the flynn story you just mentioned fuelling the fire. i think they have to wonder what comes next. >> what is your take on the trump team saying he was under federal investigation for secretly lobbying for turkey during the campaign. and sally yates, that was the first time the white house counsel learned that michael flynn had actually been

interviewed by the fbi. >> well, i think it's another indication why president obama warned president-elect trump, about hiring michael flynn, somebody who was known to be trouble. donald trump liked having michael flynn on the campaign trail because he hated obama and the obama administration and their policies just as much as he did, was willing to go out there as a retired general and chan chant lock her up. and as people wanted to dish out on the campaign trail, donald trump, president trump was very loyal to michael flynn throughout this entire process. and it's astonishing if this newanew york times story is true, that it was made known to the transition team during that time and nothing was done about it. but you know it is another example as gloria was saying

where the president has the capability to be very self-destructive. >> yeah, i want to thank all of you for joining us, thank you so much. i apologize for my cold tonight. time to hand things over to don lemon and cnn tonight. this is cnn breaking news. >> all right, anderson, thank you very much. much more on our blockbuster breaking news right now, the fbi naming a special investigator. robert mueller, james comey's predecessor taking over the investigation into the possible collusion between russia and the trump campaign. remember, it was just days ago when president trump fired comey sending shock waves around the country. and tonight, the shock waves triggered a political tsunami, a tsunami one of the president's own making, one that he can't blame anybody but himself. so we have all the cnn