tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 19, 2017 12:00am-1:01am PDT
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reporters there's no collusion with russia but -- and this is interesting, going on to say he was speaking for himself. wonder what his staff thinks about that. meanwhile we're learning tonight that james comey was so unnerved by his interactions with president trump he tried to blend in with the curtains doing a white house event in the blue room. we'll discuss all of that right now. we'll get to other our senior plitd c political analysts. welcome to the program, all of you. mark i'm going to start with you and i'm going to talk about this report from michael from the new york times between president trump and james comey. president trump called the fbi director james comey weeks after he took office and asked him when federal authorities were going to put out word that mr. trump was not under federal investigation. he told the president that if he wanted to know details about the investigations he should not
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contact him directly but contact the proper procedures and send any inquiries to the justice department. so he says it was after a series of encounters that the white house officials felt, you know, comey jeopardized by those calls by the fbi -- jeopardized the fbi's independence. so how inappropriate was this? >> it was wholly inappropriate and there's a lot of discussion and debate about whether donald trump understands the job, knows the job to the point of does he really care. and i really think that even if you believe that he doesn't know the job and he's still trying to understand the job, the bottom line is he doesn't care and he doesn't seem to want to understand the job or know the job or to be careful or to show any respect for any part of the institution at naul. >> you don't think he cares now that there's a special prosecutor? >> i think he cares there's a special prosecutor looking into
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him. i don't think he cares for how things should be done or conducted in government. >> and understands the weight of his words and his actions. >> that goes without saying. >> all right. david, everyone has seen this video and this is a video of comey at the white house. it's in january. he didn't want to go to the event and he tried to blend in with the blue curtains in the back of the room. there he is standing there next to the curtains, but then this happened. >> other, and there's james. he's become more famous than me. [ applause ] >> so comey's friend says he didn't want to hug so he reached out for a hand shake as you can see in that video and then trump -- we'll look at it, pulled him in anyway right there we go. your reaction. >> well, it's interesting that
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we started there and ended up here. i think the most crucial thing that has happened over the past week that i don't think has gotten enough attention, don, is that the president didn't just fire james comey which he had every right to do under the law if he wanted to and it's the way that he handled it and has since been dragging comey's name through the mud. it's what he did again in his news conference today when he talked about his opinion that james comey had to go and nobody liked him. the fbi is a big place. there are 37,000 employees and agents. undoubtedly some people didn't like him but i'm sure a lot of people did. and when you've spent your life in public service it's not customary to fire somebody unceremoniously to the point of humiliating them without thanking them for the service they did to the country. if you go about it that way,
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contrast that with how he fired comey and how he fired flynn. notwithstanding the help he gave donald trump on the campaign has been nothing but trouble for the president. just about every problem the president has right now including this investigation in my view has to do with the fact that michael flynn was tainted in a way in which he was flawed. he held things back from the administration and it would have only been worse had the president found out what he did sooner. >> it didn't take a rocket scientists to figure out what his character was. all you have to do is look at his actions leading up to the election. >> but donald trump looked at it differently and i'm just kind of juxtaposing here. he will not say a bad word about flynn, apparently still reaches out to him and has told him to
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hang in there, and comey, understanding he didn't have a relationship with comey has been dragging him through the mud and the reason that matters is, i think a lot of the leaks and the news that we're learning about is happening because i think there are a lot of people and probably at the fbi that aren't happy with the ways james comey was treated and it rubs people the wrong way and had the president handled this differently, had he met with comey in person, asked for his resignation, i think that this whole thing might have played out differently even though a lot of people would have asked questions about the implications for the investigation into russian meddling. >> john who is a former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york fired by president trump, he tweeted tonight this story about the president calls james comey, he says it sounds familiar. are there consequences for a president inappropriately
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contacting justice officials? john? >> i'm sorry. the way you said it i wasn't sure you were talking to me. excuse me. i think that analysis was helpful to outline two things. one is the preference by mr. trump for flynn and the other was to try to discourage the investigation from going to flynn. and at the press conference this morning he said i haven't had any association with any russians. and it makes you think that there's a kcutout and it suggess that flynn can put him many the hot seat. and when you consider how it's now clear that his motivation to kill the investigation was the primary reason after these conversations about flynn and it had nothing to do with protecting a process involving hillary clinton, i think there you have something.
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now, you have to go back to water gate to answer the first question, which is the massacre at the justice department ending up with him doing what nixon wanted to do and that was maybe the fatal thing combined with the tapes that took that whole thing down. firing u.s. attorneys didn't happen during the bush administration and the question is were they selected to effect an ongoing investigation. >> so you don't know if there are consequences for doing that? >> well, i think there are consequences. we have bob mueller in this case and bob is authorized to investigate criminality and not only the original links between campaigns and russians but also any efforts to impede the investigation. this fits squarely in connection with that authorization and the only question will be given bob muller's extraordinary experience and cape bltd that
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will the dus tjustice departmen to interfere in any way. the attorney general put himself in the hot seat by admitting when he wrote that memo that the president and the attorney general who is supposedly recused from this were agreeing with him to help him fire comey and then he made this false statement for comey's firing and in a way, he's the subject of an obstruction investigation himself since he was involved in that. >> i want to get you in here because why -- why rosenstein of all people who is said to be friendly or friends with comey, he could have picked anybody else. why do you think he picked rosenstein? i mean, why do you think he picked muller? >> because he's the perfect guy for this job. he has impeccable credentials. he has everything that comey has, plus a lot of additional experience within the fbi and what i think was a huge mistake
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on trump's part here was to fire comey thinks that was going to get him out of this investigation or in end the investigation early. what he's got now, he's got a special council dead state kated to one job and that is investigating this russia thing. so now the president and everyone in the trump administration, thaw don't have comey who's also got to run the fub looking at this investigation, they have one prosecutor dedicated to this job with almost unlimited staff and resources and so i think by getting rid of comey to end the investigation it's going to backfire. >> if someone was colluding with russians and the president didn't know about it because he said as far as i'm concerned. if he didn't know about it at the time could he still be guilty of break the law? >> no, if he had no idea of what's going on he's not guilty of breaking the law. he could be guilty of obstruction after he realizes there's an investigation and
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wants it to go away either to protect himself or other people in the white house, but to commit a crime in a situation like this you have to have an unlawful agreement to do something that the law prohibits and you have to know about it. president trump has to be a part of that unlawful position so if he didn't know he's not guilty. >> were you surprised at the president's reaction today? >> no. is anybody surprised anymore? i think that -- i mean, look, we saw the president go up to rhode island yesterday to give the commencement address to cadets who are going to put their lives on the line. he goes up there and makes its all about himself. okay? today he comes out, knows the questions that are going to be asked and he can't get out fast enough to say no, no. no. he comes out very quick. his communication strategy is absolutely flawed. >> and then saying no collusion when it comes to me, imagine all those staffer who is may have
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russia investigation one day after appointing former fbi director as special counsel. here's what lindsey graham said after the meeting. >> the takeaway i have is that everything you said was that you need to treat this investigation as it may be a criminal investigation, so i think the biggest legal change seems to be that mr. muller is going to proceed forward with the idea of a criminal investigation versus the counter intelligence investigation. >> joining me now is a west virginia democrat, a member of the intelligence committee. welcome. the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein briefed the senate on james comey's firing. what can you tell us about what the deputy attorney general said? >> first of all, it's good to be with you and we did get a good briefing today. he comes across very direct, very straight. he said what he could say and he said what he couldn't say. he said this was his decision. he made this decision.
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he didn't give any explanation, who he talked to or if he talked to anybody or how he came to the conclusion but he picked the best person he thought he could and he feels very comfort ever confident and he's given him untethered reigns to do what he thinks is needed to take this investigation to a conclusion and making sure he has the resources to do so. >> senator lindsey graham said after the briefing he thinks the public will lose out now because there will be fewer open hearings. do yaw agree with that sentiment? >> well, i've been around here long enough, don, if they want to have hearings, they're going to have hearings. let me just say it will not -- it will not prevent from doing our job on the senate intelligence. we are continuing on. if we can collaborate, we the work together on different things, we can share information, we can see in corroboration if these are matching up, but we will do our job. he is going to do his job and
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there is nothing tied where the senate is going to be impeded whatsoever, and also anything from the senate we can basically redirect his -- his direction of how he handles his investigation. >> so you'll work with him you're saying, if need be. >> i'm thinking that we will, any way that we're asked to but we're going to do ours independently of his. >> the president issued a statement regarding the appointment of robert muller and saying that in part as i have stated many times a thorough investigation will confirm what we already know. there was no collusion between myself and this campaign. i look forward to this matter ending quickly. and then this morning, much more center. he said this is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in american history with all of the illegal acts that took place in the clinton
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campaign and the obama administration there was never a special counsel appointed. it shows we are divided, not unified and we have very important things to be doing right now, whether it's trade, trade deals, whether it's military, whether it's stopping nuclear, all of the things that we have discussed and i think this shows a very divided country. what's your reaction to all of that? that's a lot within less than 24 hours. >> let me say, don, that i respectfully disagree with the president. this is not a wuch hunt. i have not partaken in one discussion, not one dialog anywhere i've been, not one meeting i've attended where i thought people were going after the jugular and creating a complete kay yogchaos. that's not what i have seen. i've seen democrats and republicans going about a special job that they have to do
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especially on the intel committee on the senate and we always say this. we respect our intel community. there's 17 different agencies that we work with. they have allies around the world. we rely on some of the most professional people i've ever met and i trust and i basically respect the work they do. i trust the information they give me. the intel will give you the facts. the facts should take you to the truth and the truth should allow you to make a decision you need to make. with all the chaos that's going on, everybody's to blame including the white house for contributing and feeding the chaos. >> the justice department that named the special counsel so it begs the question, how is this a result of a divided nation and also he's saying the democrats' fault. it seems to be the president's own fault. >> let me say that what you just said is accurate, very -- very
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true. the -- there were democrat senators that were saying we're going to filibuster if a special prosecutor is not chosen before an fbi director is appointed. you heard that. i said -- when that was told to me i said listen, you give me the right person for the right job in the right place and right time i'm going to vote for them. i'm not going to say this has to happen. so you're right. it wasn't the senate democrats forcing this to happen. they sure did want it to happen but the american public wants a special prosecutor and i would think that for the sake of the white house and the president, a special prosecutor that's not -- that's not at the timered to either side, democrat or republican, not playing any political games can clear this up and we can move on with the business of our country. >> president trump says he's very close to choosing an fbi director and senator joe
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lieberman. would he be a good choice, do you think? >> well, he's a dear friend of mine. there's not a finer human being that i've met than joe lieberman. but i do evaluate the times we are in right today that it should be probably somebody that's nonaffiliated. someone who has a professional background coming out of the ranks of the profession. that might be best serving us at this challenging time, but with that -- with that, i would say it's not my choice to make. if joe lieberman is put before me for confirmation, he can be sure that joe would vote for him. i think as lindsey graham has said, nonpartisan, nonpolitical. >> always appreciate your time. thank you. >> thanks, don. nice being with you. how conservative media spends the trump presidency.
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add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount the president not holding back today saying the appointment of a special counsel hurts the country and calling the russia investigation the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in american history which it is not true. here to discuss, a former communications director, also nationally indicated talk radio host is here and selena zito, a new york post columnist. tara, let's talk about how people on the right including
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conservative media, how they see this story. i want you to listen to this from earlier today. watch this. >> when we have a meeting on tax reform and health care and strengthening our military and we walk out of the room and dozens of cameras only wanting to ask us about comey or a tweet, that's unfortunate distraction, so that takes away from the president's agenda where the headlines are about, you know, that investigation and not the most important substantive issues related to tax reform and securing our country. >> so who is -- >> whose fault is that? >> look. the problem is that cluns have decided that they're going to ride the trump train until the wheels fall off which it's starting to happen now and you're starting to see people twist themselves into knots to get back on track. because there are so many conservatives who thought well, maybe he's better than hillary.
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maybe we can get some of our agenda through, but they've compromised so many other things, particularly principals. so when you have president trump, you have these enablers who don't hold them accountable for it and they deflect blame and blame everyone else. it's the media. >> it's hillary. >> it's obama. i mane, everybody but donald trump. i think that people get to the point where they are just sick and tired of donald trump not taking responsibility for his own actions and he needs to do that because ehe's doing this himself. >> it's our job to hold him accountable and if the members of congress don't like it then they need to stand up and tell them stop it and stop causing these distractions. >> this is a headline from last night. we talked about this
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conversation. president trump reaffirms no collusion between my campaign and any foreign entity, appoint special counsel to lead the investigation. is that a fair por troy yallof what's happening? >> well, i don't know exactly what you're leading to. maybe let rereact to you. >> president trump reaffirms no collusion between my campaign and a foreign entity. that's what's being investigated. appoint a special counsel to lead investigation, he didn't appoint a special counsel. >> that's correct. >> he found auto40 minutes before it was announced. >> so i don't want to discuss brietbart. i'd like to discuss the president. >> whether he's doing a fair job of keeping people informed or framing this story. >> the larger question which there are so few conservative media which is on the left is
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that doing a fair job, and i -- i see this as simply another series of hysterias that the lefties created. i don't know how much you covered it but i don't know how much. and that is the massive amount of anti-semitism and racism that the trump election unleashed. that was all a lie, pure lie, 100% lie. >> no it wasn't. >> i'm sorry. you're speaking to someone -- i cannot let you get away from that. for someone receiving the end of those horrible insults i can tell you it was not a lie. i'm a republican sur vai. -- survey. >> i have 35 year record in the media. never been once attacked for saying a false hood. i don't know what your record is, that's mine.
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oso it was a 100% lie that his election released anti zichl semitism and we'll start with that. hundreds of jewish community centers had bomb threats called in. to the best of our knowledge to this day 90% of them were called in by jewish living in israel and the other 10% were a black radical trying to impress his girlfriend. >> you're talking about two instances. >> no, hundreds. don, not two. all the hundreds. >> you're talking about two instances and i have to say that you're not right about that, but -- >> dell me where it's wrong. >> ask the other jewish conservatives that got savagely attacked on social media during this whole thing. >> social media, everybody gets savagely attacked on social media. >> not like that. >> you can ask all of them. and i received that too, so i
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mean -- i'm sorry, don, but this conversation with you whing people like this on you're not -- >> you're right. i don't agree with her. >> you're not facing the reality of what happened during trump's election. you know, you may be supportive of him and there may be some things you agree with him. but you cannot deny what actually took place. you cannot deny the ugliness that was unleashed during that campaign. apparently did you not pay attention to what happened in chicago? did you not pay attention when people were getting punched at his rallies? >> this is the reality of what people feel and by you coming on and offering really no -- little if no evidence about the reality but that i face as well. many of my jewish friends, many of my women friends, many of my muslim friends have all had testimony, you know, to the
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contrary of what you say. >> okay. i understand that. i can never deny individual cases. i believe you, don. i believe your friends. i'm only telling you on a national level. i gave you one huge example of the anti-semitism. i'm a jew. >> the man you referenced made half a dozen threats out of hundreds. >> no, the jewish kid in israel made about 150 of them. that's not true. >> you're talking about jewish kid in israel. >> yes, he -- yes, he did about 150 jewish community centers. it's all over now. the press doesn't talk anymore about anti-semitism in america, does it? because there's nothing to talk about. >> that's not true. but also dennis, here's the thing that's bothersome. we love having you on. you seem to -- and people in the conservative media seem to want to brand everyone who is in the main stream media as a liberal.
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everything that's other than ultra right is branded as left leading media and that's just not so. >> is there one trump supporter in all of the -- >> i don't work for the new york times. you'll have to ask the new york times. i work for cnn and we have plenty of trump supporters on the air all the time. you're one of them and you're on the air now. >> that's terrific. i didn't talk about you, but i think the ratio, a colleague of mine who happens to be black, i think it's only relevant because we're talking about racism here did a cnn analysis. >> just because he's black doesn't mean he is aware and smart and with it. >> he's one of the brightest guys i know. >> it also doesn't mean that he's not reaping the benefits -- >> such a copout by conservatives in the tank for trump. >> here's what president trump
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said yesterday. go ahead. >> look at the way i've been treated lately. especially by the media. no politician in history and i say this with great surety has been treated worse or more unfairly. you can't let them get you down. you can't let the critics and the nay sayers get in the way of your dreams. i guess that's why i want to thank you. >> here's what he said today. >> well, i respect the move, but the entire thing has been a witch hunt and there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign, but i can always speak for myself and the russians, zero. i think it divides the gun tri.
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i thi -- country. >> we talked about this a lot during the campaign. is the president saying these things as a tactic to rally his base and lay the foundation to undermine the findings of the investigation if they don't fall his way? >> well, i think the president -- first of all, think hi he genuinely feels and believes that this is a witch hunt and he genuinely feels and believes that he's under attack. having said that, this is a tactic that he used during the campaign and it was very effective, but i think the -- you know, one of the core principles that republicans talk about being important to them is is to go out and do. and i don't think this is very helpful for him as president to present everything as a victim. if you feel that way, that's fine, but you're better served to just show yourself out there
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doing things. i can remember bill clinton with davis when he was under -- you know, the impeachment process. he was out every day. his sleeves were rolled out. he was at different events and you know, the message was he -- the president's just working for the people. getting things done. and i think he has -- and the people that support him and for the healing of the country, that's a much better way to combat feeling as though you're under attack. >> but this is who donald trump is. he exhibited this. this is his personality. he -- any time he feels adversity, he will claim the victim. he's the winer in chief. he's always agreed constantly. i thought quite frankly that it was despicable about him and the coast guard commencement speech. these are men and women putting their lives on the line to serve this country and here you have a man who bragged about missing
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the draft, standing there in front of these men and women complaining about how he's the most aggrieved person ever in history. that is just emblem attic. that's why his temperament is so unfit for somebody from new york. he's awfully thin skinned. >> a much longer conversation. go ahead, dennis because i've got to run. >> i don't know if the last speaker identified herself as a conservative. >> that's right. >> so i have a question for you. do you think the country would have been off if hillary clinton had won? would the country be better off? >> first of all, i don't hate trump, but you've said radiated love. you don't like trump. >> i don't hate trump. i think that trump is not print to be president. i think not a con certaintivser
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that's for sure. we do not have the moral authority to put forth -- >> the lack of response -- >> i did not vote for hillary clinton by the way. don't even try that either. >> the choice was hillary clinton. >> i think the answer is, if hillary clinton had been president we might not be dealing with all of this chaos and all of this every single day. >> but you call yourself a conservative. >> you can let the american people weigh whether that's good or bad. but the reality is right now is that donald trump is president of the united states. he's going to get the criticism and it's about time that he live up to that and understood that rather than calling mediaism like racism or whatever otherism. he should figure out that he's the one, it's all of his own doing and you can go look back over and over. >> he's not a conservative.
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>> by the way, dennis -- >> did he pick gorsuch? >> you are con flating two different things. you're con flating people who are not supporters with necessarily being anti right and that's not necessarily so. >> we had one alternative. >> i got to go. the producers are mad at me. why my next guest warns >> i'm alex trebek. if you're age 50 to 85, i have an important message about security. write down the number on your screen, so you can call when i finish. the lock i want to talk to you about isn't the one on your door.
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hunt. let's discuss with tim snider the author of 20 lessons from the 20th century. tim snider, you first. is it helpful for them to get a trailer with them as t-- >> resort to thinking of any empbts as just between themselves as individuals and the people who are supposed to understand their suffering. so it doesn't help us to understand what's happening for another reason which is that there's a clear, factual trail. i think the real political steaks are not so much russian trump but just fact versus fiction. ? he had the help of and now we're
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going to find out what the facts are. we know a lot of them but i think the president would be best to allow the factual procedure to go forward. >> do you think that's possible for this president? >> you know -- there are two tims tonight. >> yeah. >> do i think it's possible? what i'm looking for is to see if this white house can operate. >> your reaction says no. >> well, the thing about it -- well, my sense is that this president is having to learn on the job and isn't doing a very good job of learning on the job. he has made so many mistakes. leaving -- let's remember though he's innocent until proven guilty, but le's acted as if he is guilty. he did things he should never have done. he should have never talked to comey one on one. he should have never fired comey in the way in which he did.
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so will the president do this? i suspect it's not in his nature, but could people actually compel him to do that? that's an interesting question. >> i think it's fascinating, tim, your book and i've seen you on other programs. you specifically, you don't name president trump in the book, but there are a lot of comparisons i find fascinating. talk about authority tearian regimes in the past. do not obey in advance. in times like these individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want and then start to do it without being asked. you already done this, haven't you? stop anticipatory obedience -- explain that to us. >> yeah, the anticipatory obedience, the don't obeying in
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advance is the major lesson of the rejoem changes. specifically in nazi, germmy. what we know about political behavior is we tend to adjust to places. which most of the time becomes and just adjusting, just going along, just drifting is what the regime needs in order to finalize the change to something else. so what we need to be able to do psychologically is to take a stand and say no, this is not normal and define for ourselves what matters. it's very important that this comes in the beginning. you're not going tiebl to resist in other ways as well. >> president trump is -- was a successful businessman. spent his career essentially telling people, really not having any checks and balances. but you can't do that when you're the president of the united states. four months into the trump
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presidency and another question is, you know, the other tim. tim mentioned tim and do you think he can do that? but do you think he can get used to operating in a position where he has checks and balances? >> two things. this is a very expensive experiment in whether you can run the u.s. government like a small business. i'm not sure to the extent he was running his businesses many the last decade. his children seemed to be playing an important role. >> tv show is a business. but was he signing -- maybe he was signing documents but was he actually reading things? was he absorbing details? >> he doesn't seem capable at the moment. the whole business about him sharing the information that was apparently from israel without the russians suggests that he
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hasn't been focused on making business like decisions for some time. >> i've got to run, but give us a quick last word here. what's our takeaway? >> look, i mean, history isn't just about the parallels. history is also about the moments and the opportunities. when i think this season of all the young people who are graduating from universities and going out into the world i think we ought to be offering them something better than just the comparisons to the past, the psychology that they're hearing in their commencement speeches. what i think they do need to understand is that this is a historical moment for what they do matters. they can go to cancun or they can march for truth on the 3rd of june. history is also what unfolds before us. >> tim snider and the book is called "on tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century."
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tribal behavior takes over. the law of the jungle replaces the rule of law. >> don, i wish you had that message of civility toward this hateful ideology. >> what i want to say to you is -- are you going to let me get a word in? >> i'd forgotten about that. joining me is a national security analyst who held that job in the obama administration. anyway, it's -- >> good times. >> so sheriff is one of the most controversial defenders. you say must like flynn and not equipped for the job. explain. >> i would have to say i'm not'd si for that and he gets to click his team. i was very optimistic about him and -- but this one is sort of shocking not only because it had been my job but obviously sheriff clark has a lot of sort of accusations against him regarding how he runs his
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facilities. a man died of dehydration in one of his prisons. there's an investigation going on like that. put that aside. right? the job of the assistant secretary of homeland security is one that he alleges he has which is essentially to integrate a very diverse, complicated homeland. right? where people have diversive viewpoints, different needs depending on if you're in montana versus new york city and it's essential when thing bad happens because i've done enough disasters, when the bad thing happens no one cares whether you're a democrat or republican. he will serve the administration poorly and he will serve, you know, the people poorly. >> dhs responded to news by tweeting this. senior positions are made official by the secretary. no such announcement with regard to the office of public
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engagement has been made. >> i mean, i hope what happened is sheriff clarke was told by some 22-year-old in the white house, yes, you have this jb and a much more sophisticated kelly, who let me tell you i don't agree with all of his policies, realizes he doesn't want a guy like this in the office. so my hope is that this is essentially saying not here. i don't know where someone ends up. but we'll see how this unfolds. not willing that he was willing to go on radio and say he's come sboog the administration. i mean, this is like beyond bottom of the barrel at this stage. it really is. >> i have to get to another subject. joe biden was asked, could you run in 2020. he said would i, yes, could i, probably not. >> i am so trying to get to saturday.
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like literally i just want to get to my spin class. that's a long way away. we'll see what happens. and the institution of governance are solid and strong to tomorrow. >> i'm trying to get to the >> did you at any time urge former fbi director james comey to close or back down the investigation into michael flynn. >> no. >> and also as you look back. >> next question. >> president trump looking to move on from troubles, big troubles here at home. his harsh words on the russia investigation as he prepares for his first overseas trip as commander in chief. good morning, everyone. welcome to early start. >> happy friday. >> i know. what a week. >>
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