brennan not mincing words. he said russian members interacted with members of the trump campaign warranting the investigation. this comes as the president is still on the overseas trip. there was tension with the pontiff and trump during the campaign. how did the visit go? we have it all covered starting with senior international correspondent clarissa ward live in manchester. claris clarissa, what is the latest? >> reporter: good morning, chris. the government wrapped up another meeting of emergency services with the threat level now elevated to critical. the first time in nearly a decade that the threat level has been that high. that means an attack could possibly be imminent. we know there have been three arrests in conjunction with the terrorist attack at the manchester arena. that makes the total number of arrests four. interior services saying they do

not believe it is likely the bomber acted alone. take a look. new details emerging about suspected manchester bomber salman abedi. british officials telling reporters it seems likely abedi did not act alone and he was known to intelligence services. >> i'm sure we will find out more which level they knew about him in due course. >> reporter: the 22-year-old, bone in britain, to libyan parents, recently returned to the uk from libya according to british officials. he was a student at the university of salford, but stopped attending classes. he was a lonely child and recently becoming more devout. growing a beard andr dressing ad long robes. this comes among high alert in britain raising the threat level

to critical. >> a further attack may be imminent. >> reporter: experts noting the sophistication of the bomb and its target could indicate influence from a larger terror cell. >> oh, my gosh. >> reporter: isis taking responsibility, but so far british authorities have no evidence supporting that claim. >> you cannot defeat us because love in the end is always stronger than hate. >> reporter: a moment of silence in manchester. the city grief-stricken, but resilient. pausing to remember those lost, including 8-year-old saffie rose roussos. her teacher said she was a beautiful girl. georgina callander was a super fan who met ariana grande in 2015. tweeting how excited she was to see the pop singer. 24-year-old john atkinson loved

to dance. his local dance studio calling him a happy and gentle person ands pleasure to teach. and 15-year-old olivia campbell also lost in the attack. >> she was waiting for ariana to come on and she was so happy. she thanked me and said she loved me. that was the last i heard from her. >> reporter: her mother making an emotional plea to cnn for help finding her daughter before confirming hours later that she was killed. posting this touching memorial online. and i just want to bring you up to speed with what we hear of the casualties. there are still 64 victims in various hospitals in manchester. 20 are in critical care. alisyn and chris. >> a lot of injuries are seen as serious to severe.

the schrapnel can do a lot of damage. stay with us, clarissa. let's bring in paul cruickshank and michael weis. paul, the elevated high alert. critical level. is this a function of what just happened or intelligence about what may happen next? more of a coordinated plot. >> it is because of concern there would be a wider conspiracy here and that could launch attacks. it is because of the unprecedented nature of the threat to the uk. the fact of an uptick in terrorist activity. it is also due to the fact the election is coming up. there have been attacks before

elections recently in paris. also because of the start of the holy month of ramadan. in recent years, isis called for attacks during that period. that causing a lot of concern for uk security services as they move forward and try to understand the threat. >> michael, let's look at what little we know about the attacker. he was 22 years old. he was born in britain to libyan parents. he recently lly went back to li. he has been seen recently wearing longer robes and growing a longer beard. the sense he had somehow become radicaliz radicalized. >> it is out of central casting. british born. on the security services radar, although we don't know to what

extent. the only thing in the buying on g biography here is no degree. there is very little likelihood someone came into the uk from another country and radicalized abroad. there is a chance he linked up with known isis affiliates. libya is a fallback to isis. although shrinking in recent days. he must have been on their radar given all of these details of the biography. he suddenly decided to become more religious or put on a show of religious nature. this is just very much the character profile of british terrorism. we have seen this play so many times before. muttalah. he tried to blow you wiup the ar

in 2009. the one who went off and joined isis to behead western hostages. a cookie cutter profile of what they look like. >> so absent his ability to lead to other people and understanding, the man is largely irrelevant. clarissa, in terms of who is relevant, you have the victims. this is specifically targeting women and young women. how does this play into the understanding of what this threat was and what to protect going forward? >> reporter: chris, any terrorist attack is difficult to understand why anyone would deliberately target innocents. this is distressing given it targeted young girls predominately. we know of an 8-year-old girl killed in the who are rihorrifi. if you look at isis tactics and

we don't know of a concrete role of isis in the plot, certainly they claim it is, but we have not seen anything to bolster that claim yet. it has the hallmarks of an isis attack. i mean isis when it perpetrates this violence and deliberately targets young girls and children, it is doing so not only to cause mayhem and c carnage, it is also trying to sow the seeds of discontent. that there is a war of civilizati civilizations. that muslims living in the west are not welcome here. it is trying to provoke reaction or retaliation from the british people turning them against muslims. the irony, chris, what we see on the ground in manchester could not be further from that reaction. the british are quite striking in their sense of coming together and maintaining

community spirit and refusing to the bullied into the divisive hatred, chris. >> paul, i understand everything clarissa said. this sends a message of depravity and they stop at nothing and target 8-year-old innocent girls. the only part that is confusing is the recruitment part. that appeals to sympathizers of isis who may be looking for a purpose? they like the idea of mowing down 8-year-old innocent girls? isn't that possibly something that goes a bridge too far for people? >> it does go a bridge too far for obviously the vast majority of people. it does have this radical support base who are extremely attracted to the brutal acts of violence. a lot of anger about british air strikes in syria and iraq. a real desire for revenge.

so all of that plays to their very hardcore support base in the uk and europe. they are actually energized by this attack. right now, the investigation of the center of it is what did he do in libya and who did he connect with over there. the recent intelligence suggested isis building up external operations unit in libya. that unit suspected of being connected to the berlin truck attack in december of last year and in communication with that attacker. they managed to build up a presence in libya. it is degraded as michael was saying. libya is now the new front of isis external terror against europe. was this individual somehow able to get training or connect with them? that is the urgent question. >> paul, michael, clarissa, thank you. we will check in with you

throughout the program. we had a big moment on capitol hill yesterday. it was an attempt of interviewing the former cia chief john brennan to feed this narrative this investigation seems to be must ch ado about nothing. he disappointed anybody who wanted that to be the conclusion. the testimony that has eyebrows popping in washington, d.c. this morning. next. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm dr. kelsey mcneely and some day you might be calling me an energy farmer. ♪ energy lives here.

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john brennan, former cia chief, says intel revealed what he calls russian brazen interference in the election. there is definitely intel between the trump campaign and contacts that warrant investigation. we have cnn's joe johns in the washington bureau. they were working him in the testimony to get to a nothing burger. they didn't get it. >> reporter: that is right. he said there is no knowledge or collusion. that is different from no evidence of collusion. this is the biggest narrative of how the investigation materializ materialized. former cia chief acknowledging his concern of the contacts with the russians and trump campaign. it was the cia that initially raised the red flag. >> i encountered and am aware of

information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between russian officials and u.s. persons involved in the trump campaign. >> reporter: the former head of the cia, john brennan, testifying for the first time he saw evidence of russian operatives attempting to recruit trump aides during the campaign. >> it raised questions. >> reporter: brennan conceding he did not see proof of collusion before leaving office. >> these are contacts which may have been innocent and benign. >> reporter: stressing there was enough evidence for an investigation. >> i know what the russians try to do. they try to get individuals and including u.s. persons to act on their behalf wittingly or unwittingly. they do not realize they are on

a treasonous path until it is too late. >> reporter: brennan saying despite a year of investigation, there is still no evidence of russia/trump campaign collusion. the senate committee issuing subpoenas to businesses owned by president trump's former national security adviser michael flynn after flynn pled the fifth refusing to comply with the request to turnover all documents to the russia investigation. >> we disagree with general flynn's lawyers of interpretation of the fifth. it is more clear that a business does not have a right to take the fifth. >> reporter: committee leadership holding open of flynn in contempt of congress. >> if there is not a response, we will seek additional counsel advice on how to proceed forward. at the end of the option is the contempt charge. i said everything is on the table.

>> reporter: the white house gearing up for a prolonged fight after dismissing the russia probe as a witch hunt. the president hiring marc kastowitz on matters relating to the investigation. it is our understanding the white house hit the reset button on the fbi director. he was close to naming a replacement for james comey, but now he wants to expand the pool of candidates. thank you, joe. let's bring in the panel to discuss it. we have errol louis and jackie kucinich and david gregory. david, brennan's testimony. he did not see evidence of collusion, but he does see troubling evidence of contact and communication and that's what started all of it. >> we know the intelligence community believes something is

there because we're operating off a starting point which is fact of russian interference into the election. it was interference. it did not sway the election persuade or determine the outcome, but interference which is disturbing enough. the white house is right to point out that is true and key members of the intelligence community have said so, there's no evidence of collusion. it is the subject of an investigation. at the same time, you have the president of the united states trying to shutdown the investigation. why? calling it a coax. why? i love defenders of the president saying the media is hysterical about all this. if we can't find collusion, we are shifting to obstruction of justice. again, the hypocrisy hits you in

the face. it is real apoplectic here. we have information about the concern, but far from understanding what the evidence is or if there was any like collusion and as an attempt to interfere. >> there has to be a point of difference here. and made by a lot of people in the country, errol. no proof of collusion or they are investigating and don't know if there will be any proof of collusion. those are very different. >> you have to add the word yet. >> even the reckoning of brennan saying i didn't know of any proof. that deserves context. the white house took it to mean there is no there there. we see how they judge the media

in reverse. brennan said this. tell me if i have it wrong. i'm in the intel business. not the evidence business. that is a meaningful distinction. i gave them the intel. that is my part. i'm not overseeing the investigation. left. at the time i left, i was not aware of the investigators connecting the dots to show this was evidence of something more than innocent contact at least on the part of the american that is now proof of something more nefarious. i don't know is what he was saying. not there is nothing there to know. how did you take that? >> that is exactly right. look, i think for people watching all of this unfold, you have to understand this is chapter by chapter. if you want to be fair about it. if you want to be partisan, pick any testimony and run with it. if you are going to be fair about it, you are seeing a devastating case built that says yes, there is a problem here.

we looked into the problem. we don't know what it mentor an intentions. we hear the cover up is worse than the crime. the reality is the cover up is easier to he detect than the cr. it is murky. i think brennan was aclear. collusion is not let's all meet at the restaurant and plan on how to steal the election. it is more gradual. people involved may not know what is going on. he is in the evidence business. he is not sure what it is necessarily going to mean. what they do it sort of put forward what they know and degree the certainty attached to it and it is up to the various investigators, including the new fbi special investigator. the new fbi chief when finally determined. house and senate committees and

general public to gradually piece this together. that is what we are doing. the institutions are working well. >> yes. the interesting part is to gradually put it together. jackie, the white house said they have been investigating this for a year and found nothing. it has just begun in earnest. >> truly. the other thing the white house conveniently left out is they tried to is to be stop this from being investigated. the president made this worse as we have seen in past by going to people like comey and firing him. by going to the head of the dni. by going to admiral rogers trying to get them to put pressure on comey or to help him get rid of the investigation just makes the problem worse. makes them look like something to hide. maybe there wasn't any collusion. we don't know the answer to that. they made this look a lot worse

than it would have had the investigation been going on like a normal investigation between congress and now cia. >> the problem with the white house giving these kinds of statements like last night. see, there was nothing to see. if they want to play this game of daily developments, they have to deal with an uncomfortable fact. they came out and explained the fact the president fired the guy leading the investigation. fired the guy leading the investigation. they said well that's because our guy is the deputy attorney general. he is a great guy and he's apolitical. he recommend we do it. it turns out he did not like that. that's not how it went down. the same guy they were happy to hold up is mr. clean. he decided there should be a special counsel to investigate all of this. apparently he thinks there is

enough to investigate and get cause to investigate and he is an apolitical guy. we have the investigation barrelling down and you have a white house trying to stop it. >> and sometimes trump floods the zone. the idea we have brennan talking about he may have breached protocol with certain intel things. >> that was the divulging to the russians in the oval office. people say president can say anything. there is a protocol. >> he can declassify anything. it is usually done -- >> he just divulged it. >> he has such heavy authority there. you will not see follow-up action. it overshadowed the idea he bad mouthed the fbi director to the russians and mentioned that now the pressure will be off him about russia. i don't understand how that

escapes skru s scrutiny, jackie. i don't understand how that is letting go. >> in addition, they were telling the american people something different. the deputy ag rosenstein was saying it was how comey handled the hillary clinton e-mails situation. that just wasn't true based on what the presidnt himself told the russians. the fact that they were just trying to be straight with the russians and not with the american people is a huge problem. >> think about that. american president saying to the russians, yeah, the guy looking into you, he's a nut. i'm glad i got rid of him. that russia pressure's off me. >> he probably believed it. thinking it was a confidential conversation it has more weight. among other things, you wonder where his analysis is coming

from. >> the idea of america first and putting forth or strength and strength of our country. to disrespect your institution to the people you are trying to protect yourself from. >> hold those thoughts. stick around. we have more questions for you. also the president and pope have not always seen eye to eye. how did the first historic meeting turn out? we are live in rome for you next. ♪ with an unlimited mileage warranty on your certified pre-owned mercedes-benz, you can drive as far as you want for up to three years and be covered. so no matter where you go, your peace of mind and confidence will be as unlimited...as your mileage. visit the certified pre-owned sales event, now through may 31st.

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president trump holding an historic face-to-face meeting with pope francis at the vati n vatican. the president receiving a warm welcome after clashing during the campaign. we have sara murray live in rome. what a moment for the president and pope. >> reporter: it was a big moment. certainly from what we have seen

and heard from the meeting, it wa was a warmer meeting after they met privately. president trump said i won't forget what you told me. unclear what they shared in their private meeting. they talked about the promotion of peace. president trump gave a gift to the pope. he shared with him a first edition of the writings of dr. martin luther king jr. this was a big ceremonial stop. after that, the president and first lady visited the sistine chapel and st. peter's basilica. this is against the back drop of president trump and the pope in a very sort of surreal moment exchange barbed words during the presidential campaign. it was then candidate trump who called the pope's rhetoric disgraceful after the pope appeared to take issue with the candidate trump's immigration and refugee policies at the time. saying anyone who promotes

building barricades instead of building walls is not a christian. this is the beginning of a busy day. mr. president and first lady heads to brussels for the g7 summit. >> thank you, sara for reporting. while the president is away, washington is crunching the numbers of the first budget. who are the winners and losers in the president's spending plan? this effects every one of us. the panel breaks it down next. i guess i was born with a crayon in my hand.

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president trump wrapping up the third leg of the overseas trip in italy where he met with pope francis. the two clashed publicly before on climate change and refugees among other things. let's bring back the panel. we have errol louis and jackie kucinich and david gregory. they don't see eye to eye on things. when chris interviewed donald trump during the campaign, donald trump made ominous predictions. should we recap?

>> it is a good change from the candidate and president. look as we listen to the pope who had strong words for trump during the campaign. >> you meet the pope. pope francis comes. a translator. he says i want to tell him something. the translator says to you the pope believes capitalism is an avenue to greed and corrupt. he is shaking his finger. what do you say in response? >> i say isis wants to get you. you know isis wants to go in and take over the vatican. you heard that. that is a dream of theirs to go to italy. >> he talks about capitalism and you scare the pope? >> i have to scare the pope. >> david gregory, he did not say isis is coming to get you. he said i will never forget the words that you said. basically he said something grace su gracious. >> yes, as we catholics say.

by all accounts, this was appropriate meeting with a head of state and the head of the catholic church. a man of enormous significance around the globe as voice of moral conscience and humility. i think it is important for a president to see the pope. i'm sure they had a constructive conversation. this is a clear example of how there are areas where the president evolved as a candidate and now he is president is going into situations understanding he represents america and understands he has something to learn and gain from the encounters. i hope that is the case. it doesn't mean there were not areas of disagreement. >> they didn't have to meet with the pope on this trip.

the president wanted to do it. this is not a great match up for president trump. i spent a lot of time studying pope benedict and spent time as gregorio and the cardinal there. the president went there as a representative of the united states. did it the right way. that deserves respect. >> let's talk about today. particularly the budget that president trump hut oput out. it is not getting a warm reception. errol. here are the winners are losers. u.s. military. 10% more in the budget. border security. money in there for the border wall that the president wants. law enforcement gets money. school vouchers are important. new parents because of some of ivanka's family leave ideas. here are the losers.

medicaid slashed from the next decade. programs for poor children and poor. student loans are going to be harder to pay back. disability payments. epa and farmers. errol? >> it is devastating. it is not simply reduction in s. s.n.a.p. as we refer to as food stamps. it is a major cut. it is shifting the responsibility back to the state. giving them the ability to change the requirements on the earned income tax credit. talking about restricting use to it. cutting the absolute amount as well as restricting it to people with a social security number. which throws off some of the logic and calculus of it. there's a real fight kicked off. a number of republican senators announced it dead on arrival. >> it is grim. >> you cannot tell a u.s.

senator that meals on wheels. food for seniors is now off the table. >> you have problems on two levels. jackie, larry summers. read his account online. you have the second larger problem which is political one that goes back to the difference with the president and pontiff. when you cut the supplemental nutrition assistance program, s.n.a.p., and the explanation is we are not measured by how much money we give to medicaid and s.n.a.p. we are measured by how many people we get off the program. those are heavy words. you will get them off the program by getting them dropped. where will the safety net be for the vulnerable? it seems god will help those who god has helped already.

and everybody else, good luck. >> right. as you said, it is not they are raising them up and making their lives better which is what candidate trump promised. they are dropping them from the program. it is dropping them in states where governors have to deal with it. that is not getting a very good reception from that avenue. it is telling when you have someone like mark meadows, a conservative republican, saying we can't get rid of meals on wheels. that is too conservative for us. also telling the president is not here to sell his own budget. the white house is saying it is a timing thing. that said, for a president who is not into policy and who needs to back up people, republicans, who stand up for his budget, he is not really giving them much incentive to do that by being across the atlantic. >> panel, thank you very much. we will see how it unfolds

today. big basketball news. everybody is getting really for the finals and seems the cavs are back on track. now one win away from a third straight meeting with golden state for the big nba final. details in the bleacher report ahead. i coun my ss advisor for tech advice. with one phone call, i get products that suit my needs and i get back to business. ♪ ♪ won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says you picked the wrong insurance plan. no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, you won't have to worry about replacing your car because you'll get the full value back including depreciation. switch and you could save $509 on auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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my doctor recommended ibgard to manage my ibs. take control. ask your doctor about nonprescription ibgard. the cavs a win away from heading back to the finals. andy scholes has the bleacher report and a nagging question. is lebron taking his foot off the gas making his team step up or is he out of his groove? >> i don't know, chris. he was in foul trouble last night. that caused a subpar game for lebron james. the fans in cleveland were nervous. cleveland down 10 at the half. then kyrie irving rolled his ankle in the third. after the fans fan i s panicked laces his shoes back up. he ended with a playoff career

high 42 points in this one. lebron chipped in with 34 points. cavs win 112-99. game five tomorrow night in boston. ottawa senators with a moment of silence for the victims of the manchester attack last night before game six of the eastern conference finals. sne senators were doing whatever it took to slow down sidney crosby. even squirting him with a water bottle. this game tied at 1-1 in the third. mike hoffman with the goal. winner take all game seven is tomorrow night. you know what they say, alisyn, in sports, the most exciting thing is game seven in the stanley cup playoffs. >> i'm not sure the squirting of the water bottle was that effective. >> sidney crosby did not have a good game. maybe it was. thank you, andy. former cia chief john brennan testified about contact with the russian operatives and the trump

campaign. we will break down the reaction in washington. ♪ ♪ ♪ we all drive, some just for the fun of it.

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russian officials. >> former cia director john brennan testifying before the house intel committee about the investigation of the contacts with russian officials and the trump campaign. this testimony was forceful. it wasn't his job to develop evidence of collusion. at the time he left, he hadn't seen any proof of collusion. the investigation must go on. those are his words. joining us is senior counterterrorism expert phil mudd. they say john brennan just said it. there are leaks all over the place. no evidence of actual collusion. this is a hoax. the president is right. your response. >> chris, it is painful you are the first person i speak with in the morning. >> you laugh. >> it is funny. >> then he turns --

>> chris, let's watch over the next day or two. sean spicer and the white house misportrayed what officials are saying. let's give you a clear distention. the intel guys will get the i intelligence. russian interceptions showing one half of the story and significantly less than one half. they do not have visibility that is intel guys like the dni, director of national intelligence and cia director, into the significant part of the investigation that's conducted by the fbi. interviews of american citizens. looks into travel and financial. the intel guys will say i saw smoke when russian people talk about the interactions with the americans. there's no way you can look at one half of the conversation and draw conclusion of collusion. >> i hear you, phil. i understand what you are saying. you are right. it ends up being frustrating to

people listening. it devolves in semantics. intel versus evidence. it got heated with congress member trey gowdy. watch this. >> did you have evidence of a connection between the trump campaign and russian state actors? >> as i said, mr. gowdy, i don't do evidence. >> i appreciate that. you and i both know what the word evidence means. it is a simple question. did evidence exist of collusion, coordination, conspiracy between the trump campaign and russian state actors at the time you learned of 2016 efforts? >> i encountered and aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between russian officials and u.s. persons

involved in the trump campaign. >> phil, that is frustrating. did collusion exist? that's the burning question everybody wants answered. brennan says i know of contacts and communication. >> trey gowdy should have his ass kicked. he knows the difference. alisyn, if you are an american citizen and cia collecting intercepts of russians of what you said, is it fair to go to court and say that is evidence of something you did wrong? that will take more than a year to investigate this because the american citizens have a right to have evidence presented in a court beyond a conversation of a russian official reports. this distinction is black and white. it is a hard line. it is frustrating for the american people. i hope they don't want evidence perceived as something a russian offici official says.

i don't want to be convicted on that. >> okay. >> people here are saying, look, brennan said he saw no proof. he did not say that. he said i don't know. that's a huge distinction. it is frustrating. a lot of things in life are frustrating. especially when they are complex. when you cheapen them, you distort them. at the end of the day, what do you make of the suggestion that is forceful? so many leaks. everything we learned we learned from leaks thus far. nothing about any real collusion. why? >> i don't think there has been significant leaks relating to investigation. do we know a lot about fbi interviews of the american citizens involved? how much have they said behind closed doors? has anybody flipped? how much do we know about financial transactions? i have seen embarrassing leaks, but not leaks at the heart of what the fbi is learning. every time i see a door open.

general flynn resigning or it's the fbi saying they opened the investigation or the director of national stages aintelligence a director saying contacts with russians and americans. whether the president of the united states tried to get them to knock it down. every door that opens closes. and the walls in the white house get tighter. >> mudd, well argued. we have to wait and see how camerota digests that beatdown you gave her on her own show. >> it is polite. >> he didn't say what he said about trey gowdy. >> not publicly. >> thank you, phil mudd. thanks to you. our international viewers. for you, "cnn newsroom" is next. for u.s. viewers, we have new information about the investigation into the manchester terror attack. the latest on the casualties.

"new day" gets after it. come with us. suspected manchester bomber was known to intelligence services. >> it seems likely possible that it wasn't doing this on his own. >> the threat level increased from severe to critical. >> you cannot defeat us because love in the end is always stronger than hate. i was worried by the number of contacts the russians had with u.s. persons. >> this isn't over. whether general flynn agrees to testify or not. >> a business does not have a right to take the fifth. >> the president on the international trip. >> historic moment at the vatican. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> welcome to "new day." we are following several stories this morning. president trump meeting with pope francis in vatican city. he is scheduled to leave rome within the hour and head to brussels to meet with nato allies.