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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  May 24, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. good evening. thanks for joining us. there's the new nonpartisan bottom line on the latest obamacare replacement bill. it could leave 23 million more americans without coverage compared to keeping obamacare. republicans disagree with those numbers. breaking news in the manchester bombing investigation. there's tonight's deadline for the fbi to turn over fired director james comey's memos of his conversations with the president and what combination of care rots and sticks congressional investigators have to get at the truth.
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we begin with two big new pieces of the trump-russia picture. new reporting that cnn broke on the intelligence that first raised suspicions last year. also what cnn has just learned about what attorney general jeff sessions did not reveal about his contact with russians during his security vetting. so what have you learned? >> attorney general jeff sessions did not disclose meetings he had last year with russian officials. this new information from the justice department is the latest example of sessions not listing contacts he had with russian officials. earlier this year, he came under criticism from democrats after he was revealed he did not disclose these same contacts with the russian ambassador during his senate confirmation hearings. sessions met with him at least two times last year, including at the republican national convention, and he did not note those interactions on his form. the form actually requires him
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to list "any contact he or his family had with a foreign government or representative over the past seven years." sessions' initial failure to disclose these meetings led to him recusing himself from all matters related to the russia investigation. though he has said during his testimony, after his testimony, he did not recall discussing any campaign matters with him. >> so in terms of not disclosing these meetings, was it just the russians or did he not disclose any meetings, thinking he didn't need to? >> the justice department is saying he did not reveal a wide range of meetings. he and his staff were told by an fbi employee who assisted in filling out that form that he didn't need to list these dozens
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of meetings that occurred with foreign ambassadors that happened in his capacity as a senator. the fbi did not comment on this story, anderson. but others did, including a legal expert who regularly assists officials in filling out these forms. and sena he said senators would still have to reveal the contacts, even if they were a senator, and these meetings were not in a foreign conference. >> how are folks on capitol hill reacting? >> john conyers, a top democrat on the house judiciary committee, calling for an investigation into jeff sessions, say thing should be at least a hearing in his pam to look into what sessions did and did not do, particularly as it relates to this latest revelation about his security clearance form. lawmakers on the house and senate intelligence committee say it's possible that sessions could be questioned about his meetings, and his role in the campaign as part of their ongoing russian investigation.
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anderson, a big question lawmakers have also is over the role that jeff sessions had in the firing of the former fbi director james comey. that question was brought up in a classified house briefing with deputy attorney general rod rosenstein last week, anderson. i'm told that rosenstein refused to discuss whether sessions had a role, but did say this is something that the special counsel bob mueller may look at. anderson? >> thank you very much. now more on michael flynn. house and senate investigators set tonight as a deadline for the fbi to turn over comey's memos. our report tonight and the late developments in that investigation. >> reporter: tonight, the house oversight committee has not received the documents it requested from fbi director james comey about his meetings
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with president trump. the committee chairman, jason chaffetz, set today as the deadline for those memos to be turned over. sources say before testifying, comey wants to talk to special counsel robert mueller, a sign mueller's investigation into russia is taking precedence over congress. one memo, which allegedly states trump asked comey to shut down his investigation into former national security adviser michael flynn, is central to all of the probes. >> if he has such a document, that would credence to his testimony. given his training as a lawyer and professional skills he would want to document not just ver l verbally but in writing that he has such documents. >> michael flynn. >> reporter: and lawmakers are turning up the heat on flynn who today refused to provide documents to the house intel committee. flynn already invoked his fifth amendment rights to avoid cooperating with the senate probe. now the senate is narrowing its requests, with subpoenas
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targeting his businesses. >> it is even more clear that a business does not have a right to take a fifth. >> reporter: flynn has until may 30th to comply, tanld chair of the committee pledged to do whatever it takes to get the documents. >> we'll seek additional counsel advice how to proceed forward. at the end of that option is a contempt option. everything is on the table. >> reporter: investigators appear to be focused on allegations of white house interference. and want any memos written by director of national intelligence dan coat and admiral mike rogers, director of the national security agency, about their meetings with the president. on tuesday, coats faced questions from lawmakers about reports trump asked both men to deny charges of collusion with russia. >> have you talked about this issue with admiral rogers? >> that is -- that is something that i -- would like to withhold that question at this particular
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point in time. >> reporter: sources tell cnn trump's former campaign manager paul manafort is cooperating, handing over more than 300 pages of documents from his time on the campaign. he was asked about his ties to russia, but curiously not about his work as a lobbyist for the party of ukraine's former pro-russian prime minister. as the investigations proceed, president trump has tapped as his outside counsel mark kasowitz, one of trump's long-time attorneys. kasowitz doesn't know washington very well but is well-known trial attorney who represents russian companies. meanwhile, the white house is resetting its search for an fbi director after wide-ranging dissatisfaction with the leading candidate, former senator joe lieberman. leieberman is a partner at the same law firm as kasowitz. >> thank you very much. we've retained our own counsel.
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jeffrey toobin joins us, kirsten powers, paul begala, allen de dershowitz and john kirby. admiral, how big of a deal is it for the attorney general not to have included the russians and others? if it was just the russians, i would see that being a bigger problem than the idea of him just not including anyone, thinking according to him that he didn't have to. >> i agree with you on that. in the context of everything that was going on over the course of the summer and through the election season, to not list them, to not put them on there, i do think that's significant. i think that was a mistake, he should have put them on there. that said, and you probably just saw the justice department just put out a statement saying that he specifically was advised not only by his own staff, but by the fbi investigator that was doing this -- helping him fill out this form that he didn't need to list every contact he had in the business of being a senator. i also don't think there was any
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maliciousness here or intent to conceal. i think the staff was just trying to churn through a very cumbersome process in the most efficient way. but in context, these two meetings you would have thought they would have rizen to the level. >> jeff, i see skepticism on your face. >> the form says what it says. it says any contacts with any representative of the government and he didn't disclose it. he says that some fbi person told him he didn't have to do that. well, i think the appropriate thing is to find who this fbi person was, see if they gave that advice, fanld he did, well then he or she perhaps there's an explanation. but not disclosing contacts with the russians, as well as others, in the context of -- following an election where even at the time he was filling out the forms, contacts between the trump campaign of which he was a major part, and the russian government and affiliates was a
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big deal. so i would like to know who this fbi official was and on what authority, and if they in fact -- >> in the article that was put out that cnn has, it does say, according to the legal scholar that they asked, who helps people with this, that if it was a foreign meeting with foreign personnel, that he would not have to -- or people don't necessarily have to do that if it's done in the course of government business. so to me this doesn't seem like a huge smoking gun. >> i don't think it's necessarily a huge smoking gun if it was just an isolated incident. i think it's just in the broader picture of all the different moving parts of this story. everything sort of makes it seem a little more suspicious. but if this is the only thing happened, i don't think anybody would be talking about it. there are some people who said they would not advise what this fbi person is alleged to have advised. so i think it's right, we need to hear from the person who advised it.
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it was just bad judgment on his part at a minimum. >> in sworn testimony, he also didn't disclose the meeting with the russian ambassador. so you could argue that this is part of a pattern. >> matt, as far as director comey is concerned, it's not a surprise that he's deferring to robert mueller. we talked about this last week about -- not only them being very close, but he would not want to interfere in a criminal investigation. >> it's not a surprise. it's certainly disappointing. we would all like to hear more from director comey, but it makes sense that he's deferring to mueller's investigation. the senate investigation and the house investigation just really pale in comparison to what bob mueller is doing. that's the serious investigation. i think jim comey recognizes that. >> professor dershowitz, would you be surprised if director comey decided not to testify at this stage? >> he has no choice.
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congress has as much power as the justice department to compel testimony. i would argue in this context, more power. because this is an issue that goes well beyond whether there were any crimes committed. mueller has a very limited jurisdiction as a prosecutor. whereas congress, part of its job is to inform the american public. were there any problems in the relationship between russians and the campaign? the american public has the right to know that. comey has only three bases for refusing to answer. fifth amendment, he's not going to take that. classified. seems that's a phony argument. he's using that to cover his own reputation. but he's looking worse every day. this new information about this russian material that influenced his decision, to make the statements about hillary clinton turns out his own people told him maybe it wasn't even authentic. he has a lot of answering to do, and he ought to do it in public, not in private.
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and i think the american public have the right to hear him testify in public, and that's why i've called for repeatedly an independent committee that is nonpartisan. congress has at least as much power and it should not defer to the special counsel. >> brian, a chance for you to reply. >> it's much ado about nothing. he sat down with the investigator, he had the information in there and they asked him to remove it. >> paul, you do have jared kushner also not having disclosed. >> mr. kushner, you have general flynn, you have senator sessions at the time in testimony, as jeffrey toobin pointed out on january 10th saying, and i quote, i did not have communications with the russians. >> you carry that around in a little book with zblou -- you?
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>> i have it tattooed on my forearm. we pull back, we're going see what really happened. i do think professor dershowitz makes a good point, an independent public inquiry are necessary for the policy reasons. but we don't have that, and we do have an independent counsel who seems very serious, and i'm not surprised that -- >> you say an independent counsel for the policy reason is -- obviously, the mueller investigation is looking at criminality. he may say there is no criminality there. obviously the public may want to know what actually happened? was it morally wrong? >> what did russia do? how did they hack our election? how did they get into our election? how did we let that happen? how was -- there was a report today that the fbi director himself fell victim to fake news, fake documents from the russians, which prejudiced him against hillary clinton.
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there's a lot the public need tols know. but there's serious questions of obstruction of justice and the special counsel is going to look at that. >> we have breaking news from the campaign trail. alleged violence at an event in montana. ben jacobs, a reporter says on twitter he was body slammed by greg gianforte. a reporter for buzzfeed joins us now by phone. alexis, what did you see or hear? >> this is a campaign meet and greet at greg gianforte's headquarters. there was a main room where a lot of volunteers were making phone calls. there was a side room where a tv crew, i guess a local tv crew was set up to do an interview. the door was half open. ben walked in to listen in. so i had kind of a half view.
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all of a sudden i heard a giant crash, ben's seat fly in the air. and then a very angry, very audible to everyone in the room yelling. i can't guarantee, but it sounded like john forte. it sounded like -- if i remember correctly, it was get out of here, are you from the guardian. this is the same damn thing the other people did. there seems to have been some kind of prior issue that they were upset about. they had previously been making sheer th clear they didn't want to give them an interview. which is not usually how that works with kocongressional campaigns. >> did you see the reporter being body slammed? >> no, no.
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i heard exactly what i -- i saw and heard it. ben was in the room. i heard a crash. i saw his feet fly in the air. i heard the yelling. then someone slammed the door, someone opened the door, ben walked out with broken glasses in his hand, one of the ear piece things had come off. he looked at me and said, he just body slammed me. a campaign aide came out and said, ben, you need to leave. and he was kicked out and then there was a lot of aides and gianforte cycling between closed doors. >> so there's no campaign event. gianforte didn't say anything? >> he went into a room with an aide, closed the door, didn't come out. finally did come out and didn't speak to anyone. there were cops and ambulances outside. i believe ben is on his way to the hospital. you should ask him about that. but there were cops.
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cops were speaking to people. my understanding is that they must have spoken to gianforte, because he disappeared for a long time. the next time i saw him was in the passenger seat of a car with two of his aides and they drove away without saying anything. >> do you know approximately how many people were in the room when this happened? how many other people would have witnessed this? >> maybe 15 or 20. >> oh, wow. it was not an empty room. it was volunteers sitting there making phone calls. you know, his body guy, ben and i think were the only national reporters there. gianforte's wife was there. >> where is ben jacobs now? you said he's on his way -- >> last i saw him, he was in an ambulance. paramedics were saying in these situation situations you don't have to go to the hospital but we advise people to go to the hospital.
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so he's headed there. then the cops came out. they're taking witness statements. i have to go to some law enforcement sent tore give a formal interview after this. >> wow. >> that's how it went down. >> alexis, i appreciate you telling us what you saw and heard. more after a quick break, including audio of the incident. and more arrests in the manchester bombing. the average family's new, but old, home: it stood up to 2 rookies, a one-coat wonder named "grams". and 3 staycations. behr. number one rated interior paint, exterior paint and stain. right now, get incredible savings on behr. only at the home depot.
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the story just breaking now, the alleged assault of a reporter by the republican candidate in montana special house election. we just got audio of the alleged incident. let's listen. >> the cbo scoring, you've been making your decision about the health care. >> let me talk to you about that later. speak with shane, please. >> the last time you came here, you did the same thing, get the hell out of here.
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last time you did the same damned thing. >> you're with the guardian? >> you just body slammed me and broke my glasses. >> get the hell out of here. >> i would like to call the police, can i get you guy's name? he just body slammed me. >> you've got to leave. >> back with us on the phone is alexis leavenson, who was outside the room. so that's the audio, i guess that the reporter has released, do you know the back story on this? i mean i just read the guardian story that the candidate basically had an investment fund or was invested in an investment fund that had invested, i guess in russian companies. >> i don't know the background. i was stand thing when gianforte, one of his aides came
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over and -- i asked for an interview. and then ben and they came over and said, yeah, i think you're going to get some time. and shane, his spokesman came over and ben said, hey, can i have a few minutes and he made some allusion to some article that had been written in the past that they were not pleased with. they did something similar to me, they have been a little -- they clearly are taking press they don't like very personally. and i don't know what the story was that had been written, but there was evidently some issue that they have with it and they made that clear to them and made it -- intimated he would not be getting time with the campaign. >> the reporter ben, when he left the room he indicated specifically that it was the candidate who had body slammed him, not the bodyguard that you referred to. >> the body guard wasn't in the room.
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>> okay. >> i don't know where he was. i don't know exactly who was in the room. like i said, i could not see fully. again, ben should speak for himself. because i couldn't see the whole thing. but i know the candidate was in the room, i know ben was in the room. i believe the tv people were in the room and the aide after the crash came walking out of another room and walked across to that room. >> alexis, i appreciate your time. we want to play that audio, because we're just hearing it really as you were hearing it for the first time. let's hear that. >> the cbo score, because you're waiting to make your decision about health care until you saw the bill that just came out. >> we'll talk to you about that later. >> there's not going to be time. >> speak with shane, please. i'm sick and tired of you guys, the last time you came you did the same thing, get the hell out of here. get the hell out of here! last time you did the same thing, are you with the guardian? >> yes, and you just broke my
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glasses. >> the last guy did the same damn thing. >> you just body slammed me and broke my glasses. >> get the hell out of here. >> i'll get out of here and i also would like to call the police. >> paul begala, you worked for the candidates. >> it's kind of unusual. i was just in montana a few weeks ago on a fact finding mission. this is a state that donald trump won by 20 points. and yet it's close enough now, the election is tomorrow. this special election. ry democrats don't have a great chance because trump won the state by 20. this tells me that mr. gianforte is feeling pressure. but so far, the democratic candidate has not beaten up any reporters. maybe it help you in montana. probably would help you in texas.
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>> we don't know if he hasn't beaten up anybody in the past. i don't know the candidate's past. >> he's a guitar player, and he used to play in nudist camps. that's focus. if you're going to play in a nudist colony, you got to have focus. >> that confuses me. >> i would say this, passions are running high. we should wait for all the facts to come out. obviously you have one side of the story, and there will be another side and let's see how the election goes tomorrow. and how the facts bear out in the next couple of days. >> is it possibly tied into the fact that we have a president that's fomenting rage against reporters. >> we have a country that doesn't trust reporting. >> this is a different level than it's ever been. there's no comparison than it was even a year ago frankly. the absolute rage towards reporters. >> jeff, in terms of the
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legality here. >> is it legal to body slam someone? no. i doubt this is going to wind up with an actual prosecution, tempers run high, but it's indicative of how tense this campaign is, it sounds like this candidate reacted inappropriately, this is not something you should do. i do remember right here at cnn center, howard wilson who is one of hillary clinton's aides, grabbed me during the campaign, in a certainly not what the law enforcement community would think of as an attack, but i remember being struck by that. people get upset in these campaigns. it's not something i think the law should probably get involved in. >> matt have you ever seen anything like this? >> i can tell you i know ben jacobs. he's a very professional reporter. he covered the trump campaign, so he's not a stranger to hostile candidates. all i know is what ben's
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tweeted, the audio we just heard, but that's obviously very disturbing, it's one thing to berate reporters at rallies, but to be physically accosted by a candidate, i find that disturbing. >> professor dershowitz, the fact that this is allegedly -- jeff, the fact that it's allegedly by a candidate himself, you might think okay, some aide to a candidate perhaps wants to try to get the person out of the room. >> remember during the trump campaign, cory lewandowski, there was this issue about whether he grabbed a reporter or not, and that faded away after the police got involved. this seems more serious. a body slam is more dangerous, clearly illegal, than what corey lewandowski did. but it's indicative of the atmosphere which we're living now. and i don't mean to make light of it. it's bad, it's not something that should happen. >> according to the tape, what set mr. gianforte off, was not about these investments but the
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cbo score of the health care bill, which is a big issue in montana. gianforte has praised the republican health care bill in private. the democrat, of course, opposes it. in public, he said i really don't want to take a position on it until we find how many people it will cover. they did that this afternoon. so it was a really important question. the fact that he snapped -- this health care bill nationally only has 18% support. so i wonder if he's feeling some heat about the health care bill, which has the potential to really hurt republican candidates. >> i want to thank everybody. a slew of arrests in connection with the manchester bombing and the latest on the victims who have been identified. that's next. stimulant laxatives make your body go by forcefully stimulating the nerves in your colon. miralax is different. it works with the water in your body to hydrate and soften. unblocking your system naturally. miralax.
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a couple new developments in the investigation of the deadly bombing in manchester, england, which we'll get to in a moment. but first we want to tell you more about the victims martin hett was 28 years old. marcin and anjelica, their daughter posted a message on facebook about her parents that were missing. her parts were killed in the attack. nell jones was a teenager, the teacher said she was popular, always smiling, always positive. michelle klis was a mom of three. another mother of three, jane, was named as one of the anymores by the school where she was a
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receptionist. but we also want to update you on the investigation. there have been a slew of arrests. also new tonight, these pictures published by the "new york times," showing what could be the detonator, battery, fragments of a backpack. our chief international correspondent christiane amanpour is in manchester for us tonight. so the arrest today, what do we know about them, christiane? >> reporter: it's been a very fast moving investigation, we have been getting information from authorities very, very quickly. there's been 17 arrests total since the terrorist attack monday night here in the income are -- the manchester area. the latest one about 100 miles from where i am right now that, includes over the last 24, 48 hours, a couple of detonated
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explosions, controlled explosions going into the various residences in this area, to see what they can find out. and the police constable said that this is a network we're investigating, not a lone wolf, they're desperately trying to find out if there is anybody else here in this region, and with the threat level critical, they need to find out quickly because critical means an attack is likely. we've had this extraordinary reporting from libya itself with our cnn producers talking to friends of the family and others inside tripoli. we know that the father was briefly detained. he released a statement saying that his son lied to the family and told the family that he wanted to simply go on a pill xwr grimmage -- pilgrimage to the hajj in mecca. and the explosion happened three days after the bomber came back here. and one of the brothers, in tripoli being arrested.
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all of this according to a militia working for the libyan authorities saying they interrogated the brother and they say he confessed that both brothers plo s belonged to isis. these are the pieces of the puzzle that are being put together. we have no confirmation from british authorities about the libya connection, that's friends who have been talking to cnn and other reporters and militias there who have arrested the two who i mentioned. >> i want to bring in our intelligence and security analyst and former cia officer bob baer, you saw those pictures of what are believed by the "new york times" to be pieces and fragments from the device itself. what does that tell you about the level of sophistication or lack thereof? >> it's very sophisticated. it had a circuit board, probably multiple detonators. maybe a booster charge. it's very unlikely this 22-year-old made that bomb. he probably had some help, or an
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enormous amount of training. these bombs are fairly simple. but this one looks sophisticated and also, the fact that he positioned himself right in the crowd, you know, they knew what they were doing, the packing, the shrapnel, the rest of it. it's -- this is a sophisticated bomb, as i said, and there's also the possibility that it could have had a safety switch, with the circuit board, and possibly somebody standing away with a radio device, just in case he changed his mind to blow him up. this happens all the time in the islamic state. these people, they panic, they don't set the bomb off. and a second person will. >> bob, we have talked about this before in the past in other incidents that bombmakers usually have a signature, they know a person way to make a device, and if you have one on file, you can kind of investigate who made the actual device. the fact that they were able to
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get pieces of this device, that's very helpful for the investigation, in terms of trying to determined the signature and who the actual manufacturer of this may be. >> exactly. i have worked with scotland yard a couple of years ago with one of their detectives that was amazing and took prepaid cell phone calls and the rest of it and they pieced together a suicide bombing, this was in lebanon, but it's remarkable once they get into the metadata, get into the signature of the bomb, get into cctv coverage and the rest of it, i think within days they're going to be able to piece this together who was behind it. and if in fact there was a master bombmaker, i think they'll be able to identify him. >> christiane, what kind of effect do you think this will have domestically in britain, politically and otherwise? >> reporter: politically, it has caused the suspension of the election campaign.
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don't forget there's a general election on june 8 here, it's been suspended and the parties are not campaigning. i must say, in terms of security and a little bit of a political shot across the bow, the home secretary here today expressed, quote, irritation at the leaks that were coming out from the americans. it will be interesting to know from bob how this happened, some of the, for instance, the name of the bomber, these pictures that you're reporting from the "new york times" and others, and various different details apparently have come out from leaks in the united states, officials there, and the homeland secretary says that can only complicate our efforts. so i'm interested to know how that happens, if bob knows that. but to reiterate what you have all been saying, i talked to one of the world's leading isis experts and he said this bomb was so sophisticated in terms of its composition and the way that it killed so many people and injured so many people that it was a well put together plan.
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>> the u.s. has very close relationships with british intelligence, with british law enforcement. even in some places like in new york city. oftentimes the police have very close relationships with the fbi as well, to monitor the kind of technology, the kind of attacks that are happening. >> they do have close cooperation and they give everything to our embassy in london, and this is very unfortunate this has leaked out, a criminal investigation like this, we shouldn't be seeing these pictures, we shouldn't know the name of the bomber, simply because it undercuts the british investigation and arrest. because the cell is watching this news as well and they're making plans appropriately as this stuff is being leaked. so i hope this doesn't break cooperation between britain and the united states, because we depend upon them and their networks there in the united states, it's just very unfortunate this happened. >> bob baer.
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christiane amanpour, thank you very much. just ahead, the congressional candidate accused of body slamming a reporter. we just got a statement from the candidate. advil liqui - gels work so fast you'll ask what bad back? what pulled hammy? advil liqui - gels make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil.
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we have been reporting violence on the eve of a congressional election. the alleged body slamming of a reporter by the montana house candidate greg gianforte. here is audio of the alleged assault. >> the cbo score, because you know, you're waiting to make your decision about health care until the bill came out. >> we'll talk to you about that later. speak to shane, please. i'm sick and tired of you guys. the last time you came in here you did the same thing. get the hell out of here. get the hell out of here. last time you did the same thing, are you with the guardian? >> yes, and you just broke my glasses. >> last time you did the same damned thing. >> you just body slammed me and broke my glasses. >> you can get the hell out of here. >> i'll get out of here, and
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i would also like to call the police. can i get you guys' names? he just body slammed me. >> you've got to leave. >> in a statement, tonight as greg was giving a separate interview in a private office, ben jacobs enter the office without permission, aggressively shoved a recorder in greg's face and asked badgering questions. jacobs was asked to leave. after asking him to lower the recorder, jacobs declined. greg attempted to grab the phone pushed in his face. jacobs grabbed greg's wrist, pushing them both to the ground. the statement concludes, it's unfortunate that this aggressive behavior from a liberal journalist created this scene. the question ben jacobs was asking was on today's congressional budget office score, the house republican health care bill, the cbo. you heard the cbo's scoring of
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it, and the white house slamming that scoring. these are the costs and the impact estimates, the republicans did not wait for it before passing the revised gop bill to repeal and replace obamacare. the cbo, the congressional budget office says the number of uninsured people would increase by 23 million by 2026, compared to 24 million under the original bill. the cbo found the bill, that the house passed would save less money, reducing deficits by $119 billion over ten years versus $150 billion under the original years. the white house says -- >> the senate is rewriting the house bill. the question is, how will these numbers factor in, if at all? joining me now is the former labor secretary and author of "saving capital licism, not the few."
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i can guarantee there will be no body slamming during this interview. this new cbo score, how much does it move the needle here? >> i think it does move the needle quite a bit. that 24 million people losing health insurance, that first cbo estimate, having to do with that first time the house tried to put its version of a repeal of the affordable care act, that was enough to cut that will version all together. it didn't even go to a vote. the house then came up with the second version without hearing from the congressional budget office. now the senate hears from the congressional budget office and instead of it being 24 million people losing health insurance, it's 23 million. this is not a big improvement. this puts the senate in a very difficult position. senate republicans are going to be scrambling. i think they're going to have to
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repudiate their own congressional budget office, the director appointed by republicans, or they're going to have to say what, it's coming apart any way. the accordable care act. so if 23 million people lose their health insurance, big deal. that's a very untenable position. i'll tell you, most of those losses are in medicaid. and it's going to be even worse because of the trump budget that even cuts medicaid further. >> republicans are, as you say, criticizing the cbo. steve, fewer people, 23 million people who are going to be uninsured and a smaller impact on the deficit. is this a mixed bag for house republicans? >> with all due respect, i think you and robert are burying the lead story here on health care. there's actually a much bigger story than the congressional budget office report, anderson, and that is in recent hours, blue cross and blue shield has basically said that they're pulling out of kansas and missouri. this is -- i think we can now officially declare obamacare in
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the intensive care unit. you have now got one of the biggest insurance companies in the country, sthauranderson, th saying we're out of obamacare. now more and more areas of the country that have no insurance at all. if we stay with obamacare, you would have tens of millions losing health insurance. >> is that a fair -- >> i just want to say, steve knows, as well as i do and you do, anderson, everybody else, that the trump administration has done everything they can to undermine the affordable care act. before you laugh, let me explain. because the insurance companies wanted some certainty about what was going to happen. the trump administration has not only failed to give them information, it's been telling the federal courts to hold off on any decision as to whether the insurance is going to be available. they've been hinting that
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they're not going to fund the insurance. so obviously insurance companies are going to pull out, because the trump administration is so intent on -- >> i knew you were going to say that. i looked at the numbers. the reason that blue cross and blue shield is pulling out of the market is because of now. you can't -- you can blame a lot of things on donald trump, but you can't blame the collapse of obamacare on donald trump. >> wait a minute. i understand your focus. you have talked about it on the cbo score though, i know republicans attacked the cbo, don't want to discuss the cbo. how damaging is this? if the idea is to have people covered and have people covered well, it doesn't seem to work on either of those scores. >> i think what it means is the senate is going to have to rewrite the house bill. that's something that the senators have been saying really
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from almost the day that the house finished its bill. it has been thrown over to the senate. there's only 52 republicans in the senate. they will have to have something they can all agree on. i think the final bill will look more like a bill that covers more people than this. the main point i'm making is, what people are saying is, all these people will lose health insurance under the republican plan. everybody will lose health insurance under obamacare until we throw them into medicaid. >> that's a little bit of a speech's argument. >> well, because, the affordable care act, what's going to happen in the senate to get the votes they need and also to avoid the possibility of the 23 million people going to lose their health insurance, they're going to come up with a bill that looks like the affordable care act. maybe it's better funded so insurance companies can make money. but it's going to -- the structure of the affordable care act has to be there,
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mathematically, logically, it's got to be there. the only way you cover people with pre-existing conditions is you have healthy people that have to pay in that are part of the insurance pool. you have to actually have rich people pay taxes to support 80% of the people in the insurance pools who are poor and won't be able to afford it. so what are you going to do, steve? what's your plan? >> medicaid for everybody and medicaid is the worst insurance system in the world. >> don't answer my question with something else. what do you propose? >> steve moore what do you propose? >> allow people to buy insurance across state lines so we have multiple choices. >> yes, of course, we both agree with that. that's not going to change the insurance market. that's not going to bring 23 million people insurance. what are you going to do about 23 million people -- >> we're going to allow people higher deductible, medical malpractice reform. >> we have to leave it there. >> it's going to look like the affordable care act. >> you can't blame the collapse --
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just head how a tragedy turned into a conspiracy theory. it's been pushed by right wing pundits. how the whole thing got started and how all of it is compounding the grief of one family. ♪ if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, and your symptoms have left you with the same view, it may be time for a different perspective. if other treatments haven't worked well enough, ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works by focusing right in the gi-tract to help control damaging inflammation and is clinically proven to begin helping many patients achieve both symptom relief as well as remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions
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back now with the russia probe and a development we touched on briefly at the top of the program. "the new york times" is reporting that senior russian officials discussed last summer how to use former trump campaign chairman paul manafort to influence trump. this expands on a story cnn broke last week. it comes on the heels of brennan's testimony about multiple contacts between the trump campaign and russians and the concerns they raised for him. the backdrop for this is the federal investigation into possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia. whether collusion occurred is an open question. there's no dispute among the intelligence community that russia was behind the election hacking. it said so under oath at a recent senate hearing. despite the certainty of the top intelligence chiefs, conspiracy theorists are working hard to pin the blame on a young dnc
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staffer. or foreman reports on the anatomy of a conspiracy. >> i heard two gunshots the other night. >> d.c police spent months investigating the murder of 27-year-old seth rich. they believe it was a botched robbery that happened as he walked home late at night. the unsuccessful hunt for his killer, a frustration for them and the victim's family. >> we will find his murderer. >> but former republican speaker of the house newt gingrich claimed over the weekend with no evidence that the case may be about something more sinister. >> this young man who worked for the democratic national committee who apparently was assassinated at 4:00 in the morning having given wikileaks something like 23,000 -- i'm sorry, 53,000 e-mails. >> it was an explosive charge. a conspiracy involving wikileaks, the democratic national committee and assassination.
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one big problem though. it's not true. in fact, the whole crazy theory had already been debunked by cnn and other news organizations. but gingrich wasn't alone. he had only joined a flood of right wing conspiracy theorists pushing the notion. >> there's a possibility this is a guy who provided to wikileaks all those dnc e-mails. >> then he was shot in the back. >> and with no proof they even suggested the young murder victim may be to blame. claiming he was so angry at his own party for some reason that he handed over the e-mails to get even. >> if it was true, that seth rich gave wikileaks the e-mails, wouldn't that blow the whole russia collusion narrative that the media has been pushing out of the water? >> where did these wild theories come from? from veiled hints from fugitive wikileaks founder assange, from a fox news story citing an unnamed alleged federal source, and from this private detective who says he's never seen the
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e-mails, never seen rich's computer, yet -- >> it's very consistent for a person with my experience to begin to think, well, perhaps there were some e-mail communications between seth and wikileaks. >> the u.s. government invests a lot of money in spy clouds. >> in another bizarre twist, the notorious hacker known as kim dotcom seen here in a an interview claims he has the evidence. why won't he produce it? he is fighting extradition to the u.s. for conspiracy, racketeering and money laundering. but in a statement on his website said, if my evidence is required to be given, i would need a guarantee from special counsel mueller on behalf of the united states of safe passage from new zealand to the united states and back. seth rich's family sent a cease and desist letter to the private detective and yesterday pleaded in a statement to shawn hannity that read in part, it is a travesty that you would prompt false conspiracy theories and
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other people's agendas rather than work with the family to learn the truth. with that, the story seemed to finally lose one of its biggest champions. >> out of respect for the family's wishes for now, i am not discussing this matter at this time. >> even so today, the story lives on. >> there's some question as to whether the intrusion at the dnc server was an insider job or whether or not it was the russians. >> what evidence -- i'm sorry. the insider job, what are you referring to here? i hope it's not this information that fox news just refused to be reporting. >> well, again, there's stuff circulating on the internet. >> tom foreman, cnn, washington. >> there's stuff circulating on the internet. an elected official representing us. it's the top of the hour. breaking news from the campaign trail. the alleged assault of a reporter