our breaking news tonight. new reporting in "the washington post." according to "the post," jared kushner, the son-in-law and senior adviser to the prrkts set

up a means of communicate with the kremlin. it reportedly took place at a meet with russia's ambassador, sergey kislyak, back in december at trump tower in new york city. our justice correspondent pamela brown has late word on all of this. so what are you learning? >> well, we've learned, wolf, through "the washington post," that jared kushner asked russia's ambassador sergey kislyak about creating a secret backchannel communication to russia by using russian diplomatic facilities to shield their preinauguration discussions from monitoring from intelligence agencies. as we know, we've reported that the fbi is scrutinizing this meeting along with at least one other one that kushner had with a russian banker as to the larger probe into the investigation. the probe in question was also attended by a man who was fired after a conversation with kislyak. during the december mightin ime

kislyak was caught off guard. the meeting was relayed back to russia by kislyak. it's important to note that russians will sometimes feed false information into communication because they are well aware that u.s. intel is listening in. according to the post, officials to "the washington post," officials believe the information he provided was a reliable characterization. the white house has declined the comment tonight. >> jared kushner's attorney has declined to comment as well. very, very thunderous silence, i should say. i understand the obama administration had concerns about ambassador kislyak's interactions with people on the trump transition team. what can you tell us about that? >> that's right. i'm told by former obama administration officials that they were alarmed by the interactions kislyak was having with members of the trump campaign in transition. and they took note of these i t

interactions. when kislyak came to the white house, it was normally to be reprimanded. in contrant, members of the trump campaign and transition appeared to be meeting with him on a regular basis, mory e y tsn with other foreign officials. it was puzzling, i'm told, that -- because it was not clear to those in the obama administration what the trump transition folks were trying to avoid, trying to do by avoiding regular channels. now the officials were also aware of the phone conversations from kislyak where he would report back to russia about cultivating relationships with members of the trump campaign and transition and there were those conversations between russian government officials, both seeing they could use those members to influence trump. all of this put together created concern in the obama administration, particularly during the transition. >> pamela brown, thanks very much. i want to bring in our panel. phil mud, dana bash,

investigative reporter david fairhold, alan dershowitz and steve hall. everyone is here. a lot of good people. dana, what do you make of this bombshell report in "the washington post"? >> it's hard for us to wrap our minds around it. how many times have we said that in the 15-minute news cycles that we're living in these days. but there are a lot of the reporting in here, but also a lot of unanswered questions. you know, the biggest and most obvious is, why would jared kushner make such a, frankly, naive request to do something like ask the russians to see if he can use their communications to have a back channel. it doesn't make sense on its face. having said that, this meeting supposedly happened at the beginning of december. this was a campaign that's, frankly, thought it would be

disbanded and would go back to their businesses and were suddenly a transition to the presidency of the united states. they were trying to get their sea legs. jared kushner wanted to be and became the guy who his father-in-law/president-elect would rely on to have foreign policy contacts. so the post suggests this baseod the officials they've talked to, and i think there could be something to the fact this is a 36-year-old who lived his life in the business world of new york city and this was brand-new, and he did something really, really naive, if -- if this actually happened. >> phil mud, the only thing i can imagine they would want to set up this secret channel of communications through the russian embassy during the transition is because kushner and michael flynn, who was also at trump tower for that meeting with kislyak, the president's later fired national security adviser, were afraid they didn't want obama administration officials to know what they were telling the russians. >> you want me to give you an

explanation for this, i will. let me not tell you it's credible. let's understand we're hearing half the story from a source that it's a russian ambassador, i'm not sure i trust. we haven't heard kushner's side. let's assume this is all accurate. we're going into an environment where the president of the united states repeatedly, despite statements by the fbi direct oalleged trump towers was not only wiretapped by federal officials but in a wiretap ordered by the president of the united states. so you have an environment where people want to work with putin. that environment was created during the campaign. but where they don't trust the administration they're entering. i suppose you can see jared kushner saying, i got to find a way outside the american bureaucracy to talk to these guys, especially after we just won the election, when things were getting real because i don't trust the american bureaucracy. >> because president obama was still the president. his people were still in place at the time. >> that's correct. >> president until january 20th. this is early december. david, what do you make of this

reporting from your colleagues at "the washington post"? >> amazing reporting. i had nothing to do with it. the thing that stands out to me is, we talk about the nievity of jared kushner, a guy entering government with no experience. he's accompanied by the former head of the defense intelligence agency. mike flynn would understand what it would mean to request to the russians, let me come to your embassy and use your communications gear. it's not the full explanation if you bring an expert in espionage with you. >> michael flynn was the head of the dia, the defense intelligence agency. president obama, for all practical purposes fired him. didn't looik his style over there. and a year, in 2015, he went to moscow. had dinner at a fancy russian television-sponsored dinner and putin was at his table. >> that's what i'm saying. i don't think -- if this is a mistake by mike flynn, it's hard to imagine it happens because mike flynn doesn't understand how these things work. >> of course he understands. >> mike flynn would seem to be going along with this perhaps on

purpose. >> professor dershowitz, if this reporting in "the washington post" is true, does this point, and you are an expert, to some evidence of collusion? >> well, evidence of collusion is not a crime. even collusion is not a crime. this is another example of a political bombshell that doesn't rise to the level of criminal conduct. and special counsel is supposed to be investigating only criminal conduct. they're not supposed to be investigating evil doing or bad politics or things that would incline you not to vote for trump's re-election. they're supposed to look for evidence of criminal conduct or violation of federal criminal statutes. the only thing this, i think, suggests is that they ought to be looking hard at why kushner and flynn and the others and sessions didn't completely disclose their meetings with russian authorities during this period. there are three periods of time that are relevant.

during the campaign, before the election, because that could have been efforts to influence the election by russia. once they are in office, after the inauguration because he's the president of the united states and we an administration, but then there's this interim period which is the least likely to contain any kind of criminal behavior because they are still private citizens, and they've already been elected. this is another example of very important information. the public has a right to know but not necessarily information that will lead to a criminal investigation, a criminal indictment or criminal prosecution. >> let me press you on that, professor dershowitz. you're the expert, the harvard law scholar. if, in fact, we don't know if this is true, but if, in fact, during the campaign, there were trump associates instructing the -- work with the russians, collude with the russians on how to interfere in the elections and get bad stories out there in wisconsin or michigan or

pennsylvania and do that, wouldn't that be illegal to work with a foreign country and try to interfere in our democratic process? >> i've gone through all the relevant federal criminal statutes and can't find a crime in the existing law. it certainly should be a crime and i hope congress would have hearings and make that criminal. the only way it could be a crime is if the trump administration -- there's no evidence of this -- told them to hack the democratic national committee. gave them information about how to hack it. targeted who to be hacked but if they just took advantage of the fact that the russians on their own hacked the dnc, that, too, would not be a crime. these are things that probably ought to be made criminal and i think congress will probably want to have hearings to make sure in the future can't ever be allowed to happen. but you always have to point to a specific criminal statute, and i haven't seen any. >> we haven't seen any evidence of that type of formal collusion

to be sure, but that's what these investigators are certainly looking for. laura, you are a former federal prosecutor. was there potentially some sort of legal or criminal activity here? >> well, there are, if it's results what dershowitz was talking about. there was an initiative on behalf of the trump administration or campaign to try to facilitate the illegal activity like hacking, like trying to actually attach to a criminal statute. any prudent and diligent prosecutor or investigator knows there will be dozens if not hundreds of rabbit holes to pursue. robert mueller is no means an elmer fudd in this scenario. there may be some dead ends but there will be some indication to figure out, listen, who did what, why and to what game and was there a criminal connection? right now we want to have the answers immediately and a litany of whys that we all have lead us to only one conclusion. we need an investigation. why?

because there's a lot of unanswered questions. if what has happened in this case is that the trump campaign was the passive recipient of information of disinformation and just acquiesced the distribution of it, you don't have the kind of crime we've been talking about. if, however, they are in the driver's seat and trying to facilitate a criminal activity and using russian agents or intelligence to do that to undermine the election, that pendulum shifts right back into the halls of the department of justice where it will remain. right now we're at a loss. what we do not have from the story from "the washington post" is what did jared kushner want to say? >> let me get professor dershowitz to respond? >> there should be an investigation. the question is, who should conduct it? it's dangerous to have prosecutors authorized to conduct fishing expeditions or giving them a kind of general commission to investigate, to

see whether they can find crimes. this is very appropriately done more by congress if they want to change the law or by an independent commission, the kind appointed by congress after 9/11. that way the public sees everything. we learn the answers. everything is done in public. the witnesses have lawyers. what the investigation is being conducted now is being conducted in secret behind closed doors in front of a grand jury where witnesses don't have lawyers. will never find out the whole truth because we'll just hear indictment or no indictment. so i think a public -- public investigation is really what's warranted because so far, up to now, we've seen political sins but no federal statutory crimes. >> you're talking about like a 9/11 public commission of inquiry, right? >> that's right. nonpartisan people, real experts who can get to the bottom of this and find out the truth. then we'd know who to vote for in the next election, rather than leaving it to a criminal investigation that will end with no indictment or the indictment of flynn or one or two other

people. >> there's a criminal investigation. there's several congressional investigations in the house and the senate. everybody stand by. we have a lot more coming in on the breaking news. much more with our panel. we're also standing by for white house reaction. that's ahead. and so is the latest from another key stop in the president's first overseas trip. the very latest from the g7 summit in sicily when "360" continues. ...but was designed to withstand sunlight this bright... ...this bright... ...or even this bright. if a paint could protect your door's color against the strongest uv rays... ...it makes you wonder... is it still paint? aura grand entrance from benjamin moore®. only available at independently owned paint and hardware stores.

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especially if the russians saw an improved relationship under the trump administration as opposed to the obama administration? >> yet another thing in this story that sort of defies logic. the presumption is one you sort of alluded is presuming he was speaking over open communications. if kilts kislyak was speaking over open lines, then i can guarantee what he said cannot be taken at face value. if he was not over open communications, that's another matter. the other thing is the russians would never agree to have an american, especially, you know, somebody like kushner, who is going to be part of the incoming administration sit down in front of some sort of russian communications system and communicate securely back to moscow. it would expose secrets the russians would never want to expose, and why? he could simply sit with the ambassador, convey his information and the ambassador

himself could convey that information securely back to moscow. so there's a whole lot that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense why in this interim period ambassador -- professor dershowitz was correct. you have this period after election but before inauguration. it's not that long of a period. what was so urgent that there needed to be some sort of secret communication that couldn't wait until the administration was in place and then they could speak to the russians whenever and however they wanted to pretty much. that part i don't understand. >> phil mudd, if, in fact, you know, kushner wanted to have a dialogue with someone in the kremlin, wanted to get on the phone, can i come over to the russian embassy? you have secure communications. we can dial this individual in moscow and i can have a private conversation with this person. kislyak may or may not have thought that was strange but maybe kushner thought it was a

legitimate idea. >> darn right he thought that was strange. forget about sensitive information saying, i don't trust this going through american communication channels because the white house is using this. i want to talk via your channels and the white house won't see it. one thing that hasn't been mentioned is a word that's come up repeatedly in the past couple of months and that is unmasking. if this story is untrue and you want to understand why the national security adviser under president obama, that is susan rice, wants to understand which americans in the trump campaign are talking to russian ambassadors and saying, who is that u.s. person number one mentioned in that communication, this story today tells you why. this is the kind of name that would be unmasked in a communication to help the white house understand what's going on with the incoming administration and secret communications with the russians. the story is starting to clarify. >> a lot of people are saying, dana, there's a lot of bombshells over these past few weeks. this is a major bombshell. >> it is. look, i mean, i think it's hard

to top the president of the united states in the oval office allegedly telling the russian foreign minister and ambassador that the fbi director he just fired is a nut job or allegedly giving them intelligence and saying it is the israelis that was the source or telling the nsa director and the head of the cia to go public and say that nothing bad happened with flynn or -- i can or, or, or, and this is about what happened when the president of the united states was already president. having said that, with regard to trying to figure out what really went on -- not the moetivation because we don't really have 100% of what the motivation was, but what went on in some of these meetings that jared kushner and michael flynn didn't even talk about it first. didn't even reveal it first. and now we have more information about what he wanted to do in

these meetings. that there's no question. >> professor dershowitz, if jared kushner called you and said, i need some legal advice, what would you tell him? >> i'd tell him to hire jamie gorelick which he's done. she's a brilliant lawyer, my former student. she's giving him the best possible advice. i'd be completely up front and frank. i would first write to the special counsel and find out what they are investigating, what statutes they think may have been violated. but then it seems to me that he has really nothing to hide and nothing he can hide anyway because everything will come out because everything is tapped. everything is recorded these days. and so he should be completely candid. and what he should say if it's the truth is that i didn't trust the obama administration. i thought they would leak this information to the disadvantage of the incoming president. i wanted to have a source of contact with russia who we wanted to have better relationships with. and i wanted to do it without the obama administration

listening in. now the fact that you trust the russians, you trust your own incumbent president is an interesting political story. but i don't see the criminal law implications of this. to me, a much more serious story and you'll get to it later is the comey revelation that, my god, he relied on information that he knew was probably false coming from the russians in order to make statements that may have had an impact on the election? that is really a bombshell and some of the things dana mentioned are much, much more serious, the leaking of the intelligence, of what city the surveillance came from. very, very serious. the fact that the president may have asked national security people to tell him something that turned out not to be the case. those are much more serious. so we have to have priorities here and always focus on whether or not civil liberties are being violated in the rush toward partisan results. >> very quickly, professor dershowitz, you mentioned jamie

gorelick, the lawyer representing jared kushner. she's a former deputy attorney general during the bill clinton administration. "the washington post" asked her for comment. we've asked her for comment. we've asked the white house for comment to this bombshell report in "the washington post." "the washington post" asked for comment, and for hours now, they are not commenting. how do you explain that? >> i think for very good reason. i wouldn't have commented if i had been his lawyer until i find out whether the story is true. i'd want to check with my client to find out whether or not this meeting actually took place. i'd want to hear his story, his account of it and then make a decision about whether to make it public at this time, or to make it public to the special counsel outside of the context of any kind of public disclosure. i'm sure that you will get responses from jamie gorelick but you'll get it at a time when she knows for sure that what

she's saying is credible. she depends on her credibility. as you said, she's a democrat. she worked for the obama administration, clinton administration. she's a very prominent democrat, and yet she's here as a lawyer representing a republican. that is in the highest tradition of the bar and civil liberties. she's probably getting as much flack as i am. every time i speak out and say anything that serves to the advantage of the incumbent president, all of my liberal and radical friends condemn me. i'm sure jamie gorelick gets the same thing. that's what lawyers and civil libertarians and public intelectuals and professors have to do it. we have to call it straight in a nonpartisan way. >> everybody stand by. professor, we'll get back to you. new reporting coming in on additional and undisclosed contacts between jared kushner and sergey kislyak, the russian ambassador to the united states. so our engineers can solve problems with the most precise data at their fingertips.

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in addition to "the washington post" reporting that jared kushner back in early december suggested setting up a secret communications system with moscow, there's now new reporting from reuters. their sources telling them kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with russian ambassador sergey kislyak. the that includes two phone calls between april and november of last year. reached for comment by the

reuters news service, kushner attorney says he has no recollection of any of those calls. it's another case of alleged contact. this russian ambassador seems to be everywhere in this story. he's one of at least four contacts with the ambassador has come und scrutiny. our panel is back with us also joining my old friend and colleague jill dougherty with the university of washington right now and the woodrow wilson center. i want to get to all of that, but ryan lizza, the attorney representing jared kushner has just put out a statement? >> yes, this is text i just received from an official at the white house when i asked for a response earlier to the ongoing stories. this is a response put in the name of jamie gorelick coming via a white house official to see me. reuters said, quote, mr. kushner participated in thousands of

calls in this time period. he has no recollection of the calls as described. we have asked reuters for the dates of such calls, but we have not received such information. so that's being attributed to kushner's lawyer coming to me via a white house official. and they are pushing back against this reuters st s story saying that kushner participated in several calls during that time but does not have any recollection of the calls that reuters has described. there is not a response still to "the washington post." >> the jamie gorelick statement regarding the reuters story but still silence as far as "the washington post" story is concerned. jill, let's talk a little bit. we haven't heard from you yet. does it make sense that a high-ranking official with an incoming u.s. administration would propose using secure equipment at the russian embassy in washington to communicate with the kremlin? >> wolf, i think it's

flabbergasting both from the american perspective and from the russian perspective. but in a way, i was trying to get my head around this. in a way, it does make some sense. i think you could argue, we all know that the president disdained, really disliked and distrusted the intelligence community. so he would definitely try to go around them to do whatever he wanted to do. and general flynn was the same way. perhaps even more so. then you had his desire to do a deal with the russians. and if you look at the way the president deals with other leaders, et cetera, a lot of it is personal connection. going out. remember the early phone calls he made. direct, pick up the phone and do it yourself. it's kind of his businessman approach. so i can see this, in some way, they would say, let's go to them directly. let's communicate with the kremlin directly.

let's finder contact there. n finally, the president's desire to do the biggest deal in history which would be improving relations with russia. so all of those factors, i think, you know, at least give some type of, to me, a little bit of a framework where you could make sense of this, even though it is astounding and pretty incredible. but not totally implausible. >> interesting. professor dershowitz, let me ask you about a u.s law called the logan act. it's never been used successfully to prosecute someone but it essentially prohibits private citizens having unauthorized dealings with foreign governments. i assume you'll be skeptical of this, but it could come into play if -- and it's a big if -- if jared kushner or michael flynn or anyone else was discussing making promises about sanctions against russia to russian government officials. >> no, absolutely not. there's a concept called

deslitude in the law. it disappears from the books if it's never been used or hasn't been used for a long period of time. it f it had been used you'd be calling jimmy carter now in prison because jimmy carter did this all the time. jimmy carter advised yasser arafat not to accept the deal that president clinton and ehud barak put on the table. president reagan negotiated through his staff with the iranians to make sure that the hostages were released after he was inaugurated, not before. jesse jackson has had many, many dealings with foreign leaders. you just have to forget about the logan act. it is not the law of the united states, even though the words still appear on the book. you cannot enforce a law after 200 years of deslitude. that is, in fact, the law. >> david, you work at "the washington post." your colleagues have this major

story, this bombshell. you and i are journalists. and it's surprising to me, as journalists, your paper gave the white house, gave kushner's attorney hours to respond. and there's still silence. >> it's hard to read anything into that. it could be that they are reviewing records or preparing a response. it's hard to say anything right now what that means. this is an unusual white house which often responds to a lot of things with radio silence. i don't think we know exactly now what that means. >> do you think, jill, the russian ambassador simply fooling around, playing games trying to embarrass the united states in saying these crazy things in a phone conversation that he suspected the u.s. was listening in on? >> you know, wolf, for some reason i don't believe that. let's play it out because if that's what he was trying to do, it puts donald trump in a bad light, i would think. it would explode, as it is,

domestically in the united states. why would they want to kind of damage donald trump by doing that? albeit, of course, they want to sow disinformation and shake it up and put out a whole lot of chaff out there. but that, to me, does not make sense. i don't think he'd want to damage him. >> everybody stand by. we have a lot more coming up, including more on where the white house now stands on all of this, as well as the president's trip overseas. what he's doing. and the subject he's avoiding. what if there was a paint... ...where each drop was formulated to be smarter... ...even smarter than that... ...so if a color didn't go on evenly, it would balance itself out to reveal its truest, richest state. if a paint could realize the fullest potential of any color... ...you have to wonder... is it still paint? aura interior from benjamin moo®e . only available at independently owned paint and hardware stores.

in addition to tonight's breaking news on jared kushner

and russia's ambassador, there's a lot more happening, including the president's day at the g7 summit. cnn's jeff zeleny is joining us from sicily with more on that reaction to the russian reporting. what, if anything, are white house officials saying? >> well, wolf, i can tell you the white house is not commenting on any of these reports this evening. a senior administration official telling me earlier, they are not going to react individually to each one of these stories. wolf, i can tell you russia is hanging over the president's head even as he has been over here for the last week. he's been watching, i'm told, every inkremcremental developmef this story. russia is also hanging over him. they are wondering why he is so silent on vladimir putin and if he'll be able to stand up to him. president trump and members of his new world club of leaders stood watch as they put on an impressive show at the g7 summit

in sicily. as the president's debut on the world stage draws to a close, one thing has been clear along the way. he's not eager to talk about russia. his silence has fueled more questions, not only about the russia investigation back in washington, but also among european leaders quietly wondering whether he's ready to confront the aggression of vladimir putin. >> i am not 100% sure that we can say today, we, mr. president and myself, that we have a common position, common opinion about russia. >> russia is not allowed to attend the summit. thrown out in 2014 after its incursion into crimea. on russian sanctions, the white house raised eyebrows yesterday when the president's top economic adviser declared, we don't have a position. amid criticism, the administration backtracked with cohnoutlining a new position in a briefing call with reporters. >> we're not lowering our

sanctions on russia. if anything, we would probably look to get tougher on russia. so the president wants to continue to keep the sanctions in place. >> reporter: at a cliffside resort on the sicilian coast, the president and other members of the g7 took one another's measure. they also signed a statement calling for unity in the global fight against terrorism. tonight, the president holding a private session with german chancellor angela merkel. one item likely on the agenda is trade. after the president raised eyebrows for saying he believes germany is very bad on trade while visiting nato headquarters of ". cohn rushed to clarify the president's remarks saying i don't have a problem with germany. i have a problem with german trade. unlike his new counterparts, mr. trump refused to answer questions from the press. british prime minister theresa may and a parade of leaders stood before reporters here and at nato headquarters. it's one of the best ways to deliver their message like may

did on the intelligence sharing controversy. >> yes, i did raise the issue of the leaks of information that are being shared by the police with the fbi, with president trump. he has made clear that that was unacceptable. >> reporter: but president trump has not held a single formal question and answer session with reporters. a break in protocol of most u.s. presidents. a press conference one expected for saturday is no longer. his lower profile is because of that russia storm cloud still brewing back at home. and we have not heard from the president directly, wolf, which is very unusual here. but he is hearing from world leaders specifically on climate change. we were told they are trying to influence him to stay in the paris climate agreement. and we are told by senior administration officials he is leaning -- he's learning, he's evolving and does not want people to think he doesn't like the environment. so as this trip comes to an end

and returns to washington tomorrow, so many questions from climate change and that russia investigation. it's all waiting for him back at the white house. >> he's coming back here tomorrow. jeff zeleny in sicily for us, thanks very much. much more on the breaking news coming up. also, how the health care bill and proposed budget cuts are playing in kentucky where donald trump won big. when i first started working with capital one, my dad called them up and asked for "the jennifer garner card" which is such a dad thing to do. after he gave his name the woman from capital one said "mr. garner, are you related to jennifer?" kind of joking with him. and my dad was so proud to tell her, "as a matter of fact, she is my middle daughter". so now dad has the venture card, he's earning his double miles, and he made a friend at the company. can i say it? go ahead! what's in your wallet? nice job dad. with my moderate to severe crohn's disease,... ...i kept looking for ways to manage my symptoms.

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allergytry new xyzal®.ou have symptoms like these for relief is as effective at hour 24 as hour one. so be wise all take new xyzal®. with so many stories about president trump and russia, we want to focus on the president and the country, this country. gary tuchman returns to kentucky to talk to voters who helped president trump in office. the question is, are they losing

faith or standing by their man? >> reporter: wesley easterly and his 2-year-old daughter live in the heart of appalachia. elliott county, kentucky. >> i voted for donald trump. >> reporter: which is noteworthy because donald trump is the first republican presidential candidate he has ever voted for. elliott county was founded in 1869. there have been 37 presidential elections since then. remarkably, in this county, the democratic candidate has won every one of those elections, until this one. and donald trump won big here getting more than 70% of the vote. many people like wesley easterly believing -- >> he had a lot of amazing ideas. he just had this charisma about him. he was something different. >> reporter: this county is one of the poorest ones in the country. the poferty rate is over 34% and has one of the highest percentages of people in the nation who rely on federal benefit programs.

and wesley easterling is one of them. he and his family have benefited from medicaid and food stamps. he took candidate trump at his word. >> save medicare, medicaid and social >> when he said that, you know, he wasn't going to cut medicaid or, you know, the benefits, i believed that. >> reporter: but the proposed new healthcare plan and the proposed federal budget cut hundreds of millions of dollars a year from medicaid. the budget also makes cuts ranging from food stamps to social security disability benefits. >> i felt like he played me for a fool. i mean i kind of took it personal. >> reporter: if you could do it over again, if election day were today, who would you vote for? >> hillary without a doubt. >> reporter: inside elliot

county's penny mart, we talked with other trump voters. if the election were held today who would you vote for? >> well, i'd probably have to wait and see a bit more i nene into his office. if he does a lot of cutting and stuff, i might go the other way. >> reporter: but he said he would enthusiastly cast his vote for trump again. what do you say about people in these counties? >> tough love. you have to nip it in the bud and you've got to start somewhere. >> reporter: wesley easterling just graduated from a pipeline college and hopes to get a job soon so he can be off federal assistance. >> donald trump during the campaign said he's going to fight for the little guy. you're the little guy, right?

>> i am the little guy. >> do you feel he's fighting for you? >> no, not at all. the little guy is going to have to fight for himself. >> reporter: in the meantime he says he's praying for his family, his country, and his president. gary tuckman, elliot county, kentucky. >> joining us now bakari sellers and statehouse members. guys, thanks very much. so how big of a problem is it if the residents there feel sort of betrayed by him right now? >> well, i think you can always antidotally find people who don't like a politician they recently voted for. but on the whole here where i live, donald trump is still overwhelmingly popular. and i also think there's some degree of nuance you have to look at in this reporting.

while he is proepsing to cut some things some people want, there is a recognition here in kentucky we cannot necessarily afford everything here at the federal level and at the state level. so here in kentucky you have a recognition at this point we have 1 in 3 people on medicaid, and is this something we can afford is donald trump left with making the hard decision to get this program back into place where we can afford it and it can truly take care of people who need it. so there's a balance that has to go on here. but i think in kentucky would still overwhelmingly win the eelectoral votes if an election were to take place today. >> it's not across the board. there are many conservatives who are championing these cuts by the president. go ahead and respond. >> well, i think one of the things we're seeing is donald trump has come through and said

he would preserve medicare, preserve medicaid. and those simply aren't things he's doing. he's cutting these things that people depend on especially right there in kentucky. and what we're seeing is not anything new. it's not a donald trump phenomenon. we're seeing rural working class white voters who are voting against their own self-interest. but i love how we often go out on these missions where we try to find these voters who are economic ang swraty voters. but that's not what it is, wolf. what it is is cultural anxiety. we see voters voting on whether it's guy marriage, whether or not it's transgender rights, who are voting against that image, that picture. so it's not as much economics as it is the direction of the country, and that's a large discussion that has has to be had had. >> i ask scott to respond to that. go ahead, scott. >> i think there's some

arrogance in that viewpoint. yes, there is some self-interest in any vote you cast in any election. but there's also national interest. and i do agree there's some cultural issues that play in this election. hillary clinton was openenly disdainful of aplas vegasa, and there was a disconnect between the national democratic party and rural aamerica. wisconsin, michigan, all these states that donald trump won they have one thing in common. they're in this part of the country where the democratic payked the message that they had previously relied upon to win in presidential elections. so until democratics come up with one, they're going to keep losing elections. but you have to remember not every voter goes to the polls and say, well, who can i vote for based solely on who's going to send me the most money. there are other things at play.

donald trump checked way more boxes than hillary clinton. >> we're going to have plenty of opportunity down the road, guys, to continue this important conversation. scott jennings, bakari sellers thanks very much. "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden,

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thanks very much for watching "360." united shades of america starts right now. on this show we're talk about muslims and arabs. that's how i can tell -- that's not the reaction that sentence would get in other parts of the country. we're talking about muslims and arabs, wham. by the way, i'm super excited about this episode. it's important to separate that. i've got to say it out loud because a lot of people don't realize this, not all muslims ar