tv New Day CNN June 15, 2017 4:00am-5:01am PDT
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duck. everyone was basically a sitting duck. >> a patriot and he's a fighter. he will recover from this assault. >> we are united in our shock. we are united in our anguish. >> i am sickened by this despicable act. i condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. >> we are reporting an expansion of the investigation to include obstruction. >> this is exactly what james comey had in mind. >> this innuendo of investigation of a sitting president that no one can seem to confirm i think is dangerous for republic. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning. well cocome to "new day." steve scalise is in critical condition after the gunman ambushed while practicing for the charity baseball game. his criminal past is
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investigated. >> congress calling for unity after the senseless attack. the charity baseball game is going on as scheduled. the washington post is reporting that special counsel robert mueller is investigating president trump for possible obstruction of justice. any tone of conciliation ends right there. the president tweeting this morning saying that this is a phony collusion with the russia story. they found zero proof. now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. nice. we have it all covered. let's begin with alex marquardt live in virginia. alex. >> reporter: good morning, chris. this immediately became a federal investigation because it was members of congress targeted. the fooibi is taking the lead. we are learning more about the attacker james t. hodgkinson
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from belleville, illinois. particularly with the past brush was the law. in 2006, arrested on multiple charges. including two counts of domestic battery and discharge of a firearm and criminal damage to a car. and hodgkinson was firing into a tree with a shotgun and police called in march. that is the same month that law enforcement say he drove from illinois to here in alexandria, virginia. the chilling sound of gunfire captured in the cell phone video. [ gunshots ] >> reporter: 66-year-old james t. hodgkinson, critic of president trump, unleashing a hail of bullets on republican lawmakers practicing on the eve of the charity baseball game. the congress member targeted on the field scrambling to take cover. >> somebody saying run, he's got a gun. i ran into the dugout like most on the field.
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>> east of monroe. shots being fired and people running. possibly victims involved. >> reporter: the lone gunman armed with a rifle and .9 millimeter handgun exchanging fire with capitol police officers there to protect steve scalise. local police join in the firefight to take down the attacker. >> we have one in custody. one shooter. there is also a victim down in the baseball field. >> reporter: scalise was on second base when he was shot in his left hip. >> he dragged himself after being shot from near second base 10 or 15 yards in the field to be further away from the gunman. >> reporter: four others also wounded in the attack. witnesses now praising the heroic actions of law enforcement in preventing further casualties. >> i saw two of them going toward the shooter. they were putting their lives in the line of fire directly. >> it was the capitol police
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that saved us all. >> reporter: the gunman drove from illinois to virginia in march and living out of a white cargo van. >> he's asked me if this team was the republican or democrat team practicing. i responded it was republican team practicing. he proceeded to shoot republicans. take that for what it's worth. >> reporter: attacker's online posts show a hate for donald trump and republicans. he writes trump is a traitor and trump destroyed our democracy. it is time to destroy trump and company. a month earlier, republicans are the taliban of the u.s. a family member telling the new york times he came to washington to protest trump in recent weeks. also liking a cartoon suggesting scalise should be fired. it is not known if scalise was
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specifically targeted in the attack. the capitol police officers are hailed as other aheroes for pre a potential massacre. we know crystal griner is still in the hospital. the other agent david bailey was lightly wounded. he has been released. if they had not been there to protect congress member scalise, this could have been worse. alisyn. >> no question, alex. we have to keep calling out if it were not for griner and bailey. who knows. steve scalise still in critical condition hours of surgery. he is facing a lot more. last night, president trump and first lady visited scalise in the hospital. the president sat by scalise's bedside and spoke with the family. tweeted that congress scalise is in tough shape, but a real fighter. we have chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta joining us with more.
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bullet to the pelvis. he was dragging himself away. a lot of that was adrenaline. he spoke to his wife? >> they called him stable and in good spirits. you saw the video. what sounds like happened, he had a transport from the field to the hospital. by the time he an arrived at the hospital, he was in critical condition. not critical, but stable, but just critical. a significant deterioration if you will over that few minutes of time. it sounds like significant blood loss. went to the operating room and in the operating room several hours. went back to the operating room to control blooding and still in critical condition. a hip injury. how serious can it be? it can be serious as evidenced here. you fracture the bones and injured internal organs in the be an do meabdomen and severe b
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>> it looked on the stretcher taken away and it looked it was worse than what his colleagues were saying. it must have been adrenaline getting him through the initial moments and shock that keep you functioni functioning. where do you think this leaves us? >> there is always priorities in trauma care. you want to make sure someone's air way is open. breathing is okay. circulation. that is the primary concern is the bleeding. a two-pronged approach. you want to stop the bleeding. that may involve going to the operating room and replacing whatever blood has been lost. blood transfusions which he received throughout the day. these types of injuries because they are talking about a rifle injury, it causes significant blast injury to that part of the body. it will involve several operations after you address the
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immediate concerns. you know, as you have talked about it, i think people say he is expected to do well ultimately. it will be a long road. make no mistake in terms of how long he can bear weight and any idea of getting out of the hospital. >> he is not out of the woods yet. sanjay, thank you for all of that information. so the president and lawmakers from both sides of the aisle were calling for unity in the wake of the violent attack. cnn's suzanne malveaux is live on capitol hill with more. suzanne. >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. it is eerily quiet this morning. it was this time yesterday morning the news was breaking and you could see the expression on the faces of the lawmakers change as they became shocked and expressed fear and frustration. i was with al franken and kamala harris and poised to talk about the russia investigation and the partisan climate.
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they got the news and upon hearing the news, they dropped everything and went to a prayer breakfast. that was demonstrative and reflective of the day here as hearings and votes were canceled and replaced with calls of unity. >> we are strongest when we are unified. when we work together for the common good. >> we are united in our shock. we are united in our anguish. an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. >> to my colleagues, you can hear me say something you never heard me say before. i identify myself with the remarks of the speaker. >> reporter: one of the ways they say they will try to at least lower the temperature and toxic rhetoric with discussion and debate here is make sure they are resilient and unified. part of that is making sure the
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game continues or goes on tonight. chris. >> suzanne, you have what is bringing them together and other top story is what is taking them apart. the washington post reporting that robert mueller is investigating president trump for possible obstruction of justice. we have athena jones at the white house with more. we remember james comey, the fired fbi director, saying in his testimony i'm sure that mueller is going to look at obstruction. he was right. >> reporter: hi, chris. according to the report, comey was right. this is the headline that president trump has been trying so hard to avoid. you remember it was just last week that he and his legal team were saying he had been completely and totally vindicated. pointing to comey's testimony telling the president three times he was not personally investigated. this was while comey was still in charge of the fbi. which is now over a month ago.
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according to the latest report, that has changed and that is a very big deal. a bombshell development with robert mueller's russia investigation. the washington post reporting that mueller is now investigating president trump for possible obstruction of justice. the president's firing of james comey propelling the expansion of the probe. >> when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. >> there's no doubt that it's a fair judgment. it is my judgment that i was fired because of the russia investigation. >> reporter: this development coming after deputy attorney general rod rosenstein suggested tuesday that special counsel may be looking into comey's firing. >> i can assure you if director mueller believes that is relevant to the investigation, he has full authority to investigate that and make any
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appropriate findings. >> reporter: sources tell cnn mueller is planning to interview several top intelligence chiefs. including the director of national intelligence dan coats and admiral mike rogers and richard ledgett. ledgett wrote a memo to encourage the fbi to lift the cloud of the investigation by president trump. neither rogers or coats would discuss the conversations with the president in the senate hearing last week. >> why are you not answering in. >> it is not appropriate. >> reporter: coats made this comment about the career as head of the nsa. >> i have never felt pressure to intervene or interfere in any way with shaping intelligence in the political way or in relationship of the ongoing investigation.
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>> reporter: president trump's personal attorney in a statement last night did not deny that the president is under investigation. instead focusing on leakers. writing the fbi leak of information regarding the president is outrageous, inexcusable and illegal. the statement is identical to a bullet list of talking points issued by the republican party. obtained by cnn. president trump has already expressed his willingness to talk to moolueller. >> would you be willing to speak under oath? >> 100%. >> reporter: we will see if and when that sit-down with the special counsel ever takes place. in addition to interviews mueller is set to have with top intelligence chiefs, he met with the chairman and vice chairman of the senate intelligence committee richard burr and mark warner to talk about the investigations and special counsel probe. signs the separate, but overlapping investigations are
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ramping up. chris, alisyn. >> thank you. president trump is blasting the special counsel widening investigation. he tweeted moments ago. he said quote they made up a phony collusion with the russia story. they found no proof. now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. nice. we have michael smerconish and paul callan. michael. that is not the message that many were hoping for this morning. i think it raises the question whether or not there can be a russia investigation simultaneous with attempt at political unity from democrats and republicans or if those things are completely mutually exclusive as the president's tweet suggests. >> you are right to focus the issue that way. yesterday's shooting was horrific. it comes among the poisonous political climate which has been
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building for years. it is important to rein in bad behavior among politicians and talking heads and a host of folks. at the same time, not to conflate behavior over the top from the partisan standpoint with the legitimate investigation. this is legitimate investigation. i would say mueller is derelict of his job if he did not investigate obstruction of justice. he then asked him to let go of the flynn investigation and fired him and boasted to the russians he relieved pressure. i don't know how he could not determine if he would run an fo afoul of obstruction of justice. >> language is carefully chosen, paul. possible obstruction of justice. trump bashing the investigation is the wrong thing to do. it is special counsel.
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his guy picked the special counsel. it should play out. it is all politics. legally, not easy to get a president for obstruction of justice in this context. >> no. it is extraordinarily difficult. you have to be able to establish that the president had a corrupt purpose in terminating the fbi director. >> which he is allowed to do and he could cancel the probe. >> absolutely. the president also has the right as the head of the justice department as president and head of the fbi as president. he has the right to say this is a waste of money. there's nothing here. this is not legitimate inquiry into criminal behavior. that is the defense he would mount if impeached on a charge like obstruction of justice. remember, he cannot criminally be charged with obstruction of justice. he can only be impeached. >> explain why. >> the president is immune from criminal progresssecution while
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president of the united states. if he were impeached and removed by congress, then he could be prosecuted. the other thing i wanted to mention being lost in the shuffle here is that mueller's decision to start by interviewing the intelligence chiefs is totally logical even if he is not investigating obstruction of justice. after all, the whole investigation has to do with did trump campaign operatives communicate with the russians and collude in an illegal way? who might know about that better than the intelligence chiefs? if i'm running the fbi, i have a bunch of reasons i want to talk to them right at the beginning of the investigation. >> can they invoke executive privilege or if it is in an investigation is that null and void because you are trying to get to the truth of the probe? >> they can invoke executive privilege. the history of the courts has been this. the courts will allow you to keep that executive privilege if you made the prosecutor making a good fifaith effort to get the
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information elsewhere and this is the only place they get it. if this is the only place to get it, they can take the executive privilege away. >> michael, to your point earlier of have you have unity. to use callan's word, what is conflated here is what russia did and why they did it and how to stop it should be completely bipartisan. the president has made a practice and now many of his surrogates of conflating that investigation with any potential collusion or obstruction issues. that is the problem, isn't it? >> chris, that is a great point. when i entertain phone calls on my radio program from people who think this is fake news and bow g bogus. i say does it bother you if the president played a role in the election. that is the $64,000 question.
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how could someone say hell, yeah, that bothers me. some stammer just to cross that precipice. i think that is the critical issue. what flows from it is whether the probe of that investigation was obstructed. i agree with everything that paul said. i would just say, paul, that the evidence of the president's intent might be asking the vice president and the attorney general to leave the room before he according to comey, leans on him, to let go of the flynn probe. the reason you ask the intel chief what is they know of the situation is because if, in fact, they say the white house leaned on us to try to get the fbi to quell this probe, then that is a watergate apples to apples comparison. >> michael, let's engage in role reversal here and look at it from the president's point of view to try to engender understanding on the morning of
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unity. he obviously is angry and frustrated that this continues. he thinks he has done nothing wrong. every day he wakes up to new threads and new leaks and new articles. what should he do? stay quiet about that frustration? >> so you are right. let's be fair to the president. what is his take on this? i imagine his take on this is to say i was elected to do a job and restore jobs to the middle class, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. this is bogus. nobody colluded. i did not obstruct justice. when i said to comey, let it go, i was saying that because flynn is a good guy. flynn wore the uniform of the country. i think flynn has been wronged in the process and suffered enough. let me get back to bringing jobs to middle class americans. sure, that's the president's posture. >> the problem is, paul f y, if
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were advising him as counsel, don't disrespect the institution. that's part of the leak stuff is about. you know, when they want to spread leaks. nothing leaks like this white house. that would be your advice. stick to your being upset. >> you are right about this. the thing that astounded me. he came in as an outsider and elected as president. he has great political inn stik stingts you would think. he goes to war with his law enforcement structure and his intelligence structure. those are the two parts of government that have the ability to torpedo a president quietly and effectively. by attacking them, i guess my analogy would be this, it would be like income the real estate business and attacking the building department when you build trump tower. if he wants to execute on policy promises, that was potentially a
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fatal move to attack the intelligence and law enforcement people. >> gentlemen, thank you very much for all of the perspective. up next, we are talking to a close friend of house gop whip skalds scali steve scalise. how the congress member is doing and how his family is coping next. but "y h you're saying the new app will go live monday? yeah. with help from hpe, we can finally work the way we want to. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes.
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house gop whip steve scalise is in critical condition this had morning after being shot in an ambush yesterday in virginia. let's bring in one of the congress member's close friends. former louisiana congress member bob livingston. he used to represent the district which is now represented by scalise. good morning, congress member. >> good morning, alisyn. >> we appreciate you being here during this trying time. have you had any opportunity to speak to steve scalise since this happened? >> i'm afraid steve is in icu
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and not speaking to too many people right now. i hope he had a chance to chat with the president who was just terrific to sit with him last night. i spoken to one of the friend close mutual friends at the hospital with steve's wife jennifer. i can tell you steve's condition is very, very serious. i hope the nation is praying for him and his family and all of the victims that tragic incident yesterday. frankly it could have been a hell of a lot worse if it weren't for the police. steve is recovering. we pray that he'll be back in congress in not too long a time. >> absolutely. what did your mutual friend share with you? the impression is congress member scalise's condition deteriorated once he got to the
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hospital. >> i know yesterday he went through two operations. he is expected to have at least multiple operations subsequen y subsequently. i can't say how bad it is, but they are hopeful he will make it through this. it is not easy. he was hit by a high power bullet. a rifle head by a total whako. that guy was trying to conduct a political assassination of republicans. it could have easily been a whako going after democrats, but this case was republicans. steve was the prime target, apparently. i think it is tragic this stuff has to happen these days. the political intensity. today it is the anti-trump fervor that inspires people in social media and hollywood. in shakespearean plays and
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so-called immediacomedians who a bloody president head. and society takes signals like that who can believe they can take a horrific incident and innocent people are hurt. that is what happened yesterday. innocent people are hurt. these are our public servants. all i can say it is terrific it wasn't worse than it was. >> you know, congress member, now both sides are calling for unity and calling to tamp down the overheated political rhetoric. some people are kept. >> caller: skeptical that can happen. if this is the tipping point, how do you change in this climate? >> i think we saw the beginning. the president's speech to the american people yesterday was good. i thought speaker ryan and majority leader -- or minority leader nancy pelosi came together with a terrific
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message. i think people have to stop and think that when you starting so vitriolic and irrational, you are violating the constitution. the constitution demands that people come together and discuss and disagree peacably and co compromi compromise. that word has been obliterated in the last few years. it has to get better or this country has bad tiemmes ahead. >> congress member, do you know if steve scalise was able to speak with donald trump? >> i don't know. i can't tell you. i want to say this about steve. he was a state representative in louisiana. he was a state senator. he was almost going to run for congress about 14 years ago and he stepped aside when then rhodes scholar bobby jindal ran
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an unsuccessful race for governor and ran for congress. later became governor. i was in congress for 22 years. i left 18 years ago. i have been succeeded by a rhodes scholar governor and rhodes scholar senator. steve scalise is the number three guy in the house of representatives. steve scalise is a great politician and wonderfully happy guy who loves his job. loves his family and is doing a terrific job for the nation. it is tragic that he was singled out for something as awful as this. >> how is his family doing? >> as far as i know they are doing fine. his wife jennifer was in louisiana and flew up with our mutual friend yesterday. as i say, is in the hospital. his kids are home. you know, they will have some tough days ahead. we pray that it will all be
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solved and steve will be back among us all healthy as possible. >> bob living toston, thank your joining us. chris. president trump is facing the first domestic crisis. what is he doing this morning and how is he handling it so far? we will ask one of the president's informal advisers next. a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home... ...with neulasta onpro?
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the attack on republicans in virginia is president trump's first domestic crisis. gop whip steve scalise in critical condition and fighting. three others shot. all while practicing for a charity baseball game. the president addressed the nation with the message of unity. >> we may have our differences, but we do well in times like these to remember that everyone who serves in our nation's capitol is here because above all, they love our country.
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we are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good. >> let's discuss with anthony scaram scaramucci. >> good morning, chris. >> what do you think the message is that should be taken by the president, by everyone, from the attack? >> listen, first of all, my heart goes out to the victims and families and certainly to congress member scalise. i hope he recovers quickly. the problem here is we both know is that the rhetoric gets very intense, chris. people spill over into more emotion and potentially violence. this is very, very sad thing for all of us. when i'm hoping is and the leadership that president trump represents, which i believe is going to bring the country together and be healing for the country. i think he set a perfect tone yesterday. one thing we both know about him
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as fellow new yorkers, he is an emotional, sensitive guy. particularly when it comes to people's families. that was a stroke of his sensitivity last night to go to the hospital with the first lady to see congress member scalise. i have just think it sends a real message of healing. i'm praying this morning that we can bring this thing together. this rhetoric and course rhetoric. you and i, we debate each other, but we have a friendly comradery. we love the country. what i'm hoping is to bring that healing and type of togetherness and let this be a touchstone for that. that would be positive for everyone. >> you don't have to be detestable to test. that is why i was excited for you to make the time for us this morning. this is the kind of discussion. it is good to have robust dialogue. that is what democracy is about. disagree. i test what you say. it is never personal. it is never mean. that's what we were hoping for coming out of this.
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last night with the president and also we must say with speaker ryan and nancy pelosi and democrats were there too. speaker ryan hit all of the right notes for the american people. that is where we want the dialogue to be. then this morning, we see where it is, anthony. president tweeting about the news mueller is looking at possible obstruction. he could have said a lot of things. what he chose to say is phony collusion with the russians. zero proof. now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. the question is an obvious one. why disrespect the special counsel and the probe? you can say there's nothing to it. you can say, you know, everything you did is fine. you can say you don't like it. when you denigrate the process, anthony, how is that helpful? >> listen, i don't see that as denigrating the process. i see it as the president defending his position. people may like this about the
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president or not. i like it about him. there is a lot of fight in him. he thinks this is unfair. he thinks the way it has been characterized has been unfair. i think he is finding himself in the presidency where he wants to execute an agenda on behalf of the american people and you get this nonsense in washington. this is part and parcel of what we were talking about. now we are back to scandals incorporated. back to the frankly fake scandals. chris, there is nothing to the story. the president of the united states did not obstruct justice. moreover, the campaign did not collude with the russians as it related to anything that happened in the campaign. i was there. i'm very comfortable saying that on national television. we can debate this. we can have this obstruct the president's agenda. i think what we know about the president there is fight in him. he will not take this stuff sitting down. i applaud him for it. i don't see any reason why he should be taking this the way
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prior politicians have taken this nonsense. i said -- let me finish. i said yesterday or two days ago if secretary clinton were the president right now, there would be another manufactured scandal related to her to slow down her agenda. maybe something we can learn from yesterday is why don't we cut the nonsense and support the interests of the american people and give this president an opportunity to execute his agenda which is a pro-growth healing agenda for the nation. >> look, a few things to unpack there. first, they can do whatever they want. he can get his agenda going at the same time the investigation goes on. nobody is stopping him from that. yes, there is media distraction. a little bit about tactic and strategy on the white house as well. anthony, it is really dangerous to conflate the central question of how did the russians so effectively interfere in our election? how did they do it?
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why did they do it? how do we stop it and make our elections more safe than next time? the white house seems to be conflating that with questions about collusion. you don't thwart do th't want t >> you are saying because of the leaks of the hillary clinton and campaign manager podesta's e-mails? >> you believe that is an open question? that's not an open question. >> chris, i'm asking you how they did it. i'm asking you. >> in part, we don't even understand. we know from -- >> i'm trying to make a point. it had nothing to do with the president. the president has been consistent on this to the extent that after all of the findings have been established and that is absolutely accurate what you are saying. >> it is a separate question
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also. who helped them and if they were involved with the campaign. i agree with you. that's a good point. we don't know the facts. that's why they are investigating. who was involved in it is a side issue to the main issue. when you say there is nothing to any of it. it is all a hoax. it may have been china. it may have been a fat guy. that does a disservice to our election process. >> you and i are back disagreeing. the president had nothing to do with it. >> i didn't say he did. >> all i'm saying to you is he is a tough adversary and the extent that the russians did something and definitive. that investigation is conclus e conclusive. the president will take the appropriate and measured response against the russian government or russian hackers. >> that investigation matters. you are not questioning that investigation. >> i'm not questioning that investigation. the notion that the president of
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the united states obstructed justice is absolute complete nonsense. it is back into the washington fever where people want to throw eggs and tomatoes at him to slow down the agenda. >> how could mueller not look at it when you had james comey testify he believes he was fired for not backing off the probe on michael flynn? sessions obviously ducked the questions. how could mueller not look at it as possible obstruction? doesn't mean he will find proof or suggest impeachment proce proceedi proceedings. >> let him look at it. the leaks are nonsense. the president said to lester holt a few weeks back. i knew if i fired comey it would extend the russia investigation as opposed to shorten it. he thought that was the right thing to do. i have to respect his decision. mr. comey also said in front of the congress that he did not
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think the president should have been under investigation. there was no quote/unquote investigation of him. we have to be fair of the president. we have to look at this thing for what it is. another scandal. another witch hunt. >> we haven't had findings. >> chris, we know what it is. we are old enough to see this movie. we watched this movie play out in the '90s and in the bush administration and we watched it in the obama administration. i think the reason why president trump is in the white house right now is the american people are tired of it. they want to go back to figuring out a way to fixing infrastructure and regrow the economy and heal the nation's divide. lower middle class families with rising incomes and create more global demand. >> there is an opportunity to do that. he is president for four years. he has a staff and get his agenda going. i'm saying part of it is how you talk about it. >> we will also push and shove
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back people. >> how you do that matters. look at how we did it today. i'm testing you on points. you may not agree on the points. >> i like being in washington. i look taller than you on screen. slightly taller than you on the screen. i'll do these hits from washington from now on. >> i'll talk to my cameraman from now on. it will never happen again. anthony, i appreciate it. another story this morning. why jurors have not reached a verdict in the bill cosby trial. we have a live report on it next. it's not just a car, it's your daily retreat. the es and es hybrid. lease the 2017 es 350 for $329 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. finding the best hotel price is now a safe bet. because tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites - so you save up to 30% on the hotel you want. lock it in. tripadvisor.
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tensions rising in a pennsylvania courtroom as the jury in the bill cosby trial still struggles to reach a verdict after three days of deliberations. we are live outside the courthouse with more. so any clues as to whether they're close? >> you know, i'm in that courtroom, and i look, and i do objectively see things. what they mean, i don't know. but the judge said late last night. the jury worked from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. you are going to go home now. 28 hours of deliberation and they looked tired. late last night they wanted to hear the testimony of bill cosby's statement to police in 2005. the jury comes in. and i have always seen them focussed but last night i saw something different. i saw one female juror. she was looking up at the ceiling. he was looking down at the floor. she was playing with her bracelets. she was looking at the
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historical paintings on the wall. all the other jurors were focussed in on the testimony. she was not. what that means? i don't know. people are starting to talk about hold-out around here. i spoke to one of the accusers. she was on the cosby show. she just told me minutes ago she believes there is two hold-outs. she thinks she knows who they are as they sit in that courtroom. but the fact is the jury is still deliberating. they have not come back to the judge saying we cannot reach a verdict. >> after there is a verdict in this case, your reporting and analysis is going to shed light on why there was so much time in this deliberation. i don't think it was as simple on the law as people are suggesting it may have been. thank you for the reporting as always. appreciate it. >> the washington post reporting president trump is under investigation for possible obstruction of justice. why? is there a basis? we're going to discuss it with former independent counsel ken
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the washington post is reporting that special counsel robert mueller is investigating president trump for possible obstruction of justice after firing fbi director james comey. let's discuss with ken star. he served as independent council on the clinton/le win ski investigation. you heard the washington post reporting that bob mueller's investigation seems to have widen. not just russia meddling or possible collusion but whether or not the president engaged in some sort of obstruction of justice involving pressing james comey to back off michael flynn, et cetera. do you think there is a case there? >> it's too soon to tell. from what i have seen and of course we don't know a whole lot, the answer is no. but it is going to be investigated and so we will soon
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know. obstruction of justice is really a very hard crime to make out. it's not just you want the investigation to go away, you suggest that the investigation goes away. you have got to take really affirmative action and director comey said in his testimony that even though the expression was hope, he took it as a directive. but what we know is he didn't do anything about it, right? that is, he did not dismiss the investigation or curtail the investigation. there comes an interpretation. and i think it is just a very hard case to make out. and you know it is a good thing for all of us. crimes should be difficult to prove and there is a presumption -- go ahead. >> i wholeheartedly agree on that front. but let's remind people what you are referring to because this is what james comey wrote in his prepared statement. so just so everybody knows the language. i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to
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letting flynn go. he is a good guy. i hope you can let this go. that's what james comey says president trump said to him about the investigation. >> right. >> and as you say, he interpreted that as a directive. listen to his testimony here. >> i took it as a direction. i mean, this is the president of the united states with me alone saying i hope this. i took it as this is what he wants me to do. i didn't obey that, but that's the way i took it. >> okay. so, mr. star, are you saying he would have had to obeyed it for that to be obstruction of justice. >> we are going to the intend of what the president had in mind. he was expressing hope, and i think that goes to the benefit of the hope. he's saying, golly, i sure wish this would go away. it is in the way of my agenda. i hope you can see your way
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clear. that, to me, just the language is far removed from a directive. the director of the fbi didn't act on that. he rather just continued as before and reported and memorialized it. but he did not then say, okay, ladies and gentlemen of the fbi, we are getting rid of this investigation at the direction of the president. >> let me ask your impressions of attorney general jeff sessions testimony. what did you think about his general reticence and real refusal actually to share conversations that he had had with president trump? it sounded like he was sort of asserting executive privilege, but not that president trump had cited that. >> yeah. it was a difficult middle ground, but the attorney general was exactly right. he was protecting executive privilege. he wasn't asserting it. so it's a fine distinction, but it is an important distinction. that is you don't know what you are going to be asked and when you are asked as he was asked
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continuously, repetitively what conversations did you have with the president, to me it was, in fact, a very well known drama. it would be well known that the attorney general of the united states is not going to reveal in an open session without the opportunity for the president to in fact direct the attorney general and to invoke a constitutional privilege called executive privilege that was upheld unanimously by the supreme court of the united states. maybe it would be well founded to invoke its. maybe it would not. but i think it was an entire exercise that in large part was intended to embarrass the attorney general. i think he stood his ground. >> but him refusing to say that in an open session, does that hold in a closed session also? >> same thing, exactly. so the closed session -- i think the open session point was just the embarrassment factor and it becomes headlines that the
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attorney general wasn't answering the question. but the attorney general was on solid -- in my judgment, very solid constitutional ground saying i've got to protect the president's privilege as well as the policy, which is exactly right. you don't, as an officer of the justice department, reveal your conversations with the president of the united states. it's just part of the separation of powers in our system. >> in your opinion, what is the biggest unanswered question? >> well, i think the biggest unanswered question is was there any sort of collusion with the campaign? there has been no suggestion that the president, if there was collusion, was with russian operatives that the president or the candidate himself was involved. but was there? i think the american people want to know the answer to that and i think we're going to get it because we've got talented and determined special council. but we now have at least two
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committees, senate intelligence and now the senate judiciary committee. >> quickly, you were an independent counsel. bob mueller's role is special couns counsel. that means he would be fired and you couldn't be. could you have done your investigation under the threat of possibly being fired. >> oh, yeah, i could be fired for good cause, same provision in the law as then. but now it's just a tougher -- i think it is a tougher call because of the less -- lesser degree of independence that the special counsel enjoys under these regulations. but it's essentially the same standard. >> good to me. mr. ken star thank you for joining us with all the information. >> we're following a lot of news, including the congressman that helps save steve scalise's life. so let's get right to it. >> a victim down. >> steve scalise was to my left. i saw him good down.
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>> if the police were not there, i'm afraid we would have all been dead. >> we are strongest when we are unifi unified. >> an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. >> after the firing of james comey, the fbi began to investigate the president for obstruction of justice. >> i still think it is outrageous the fbi is continuing to leak. >> it is a huge deal. the president of the united states is under criminal investigation. >> this is "new day" with chris koe me and alisyn camerota. >> good morning. welcome to your new day. it is thursday, june 15th, 8:00 in the east. there are two big stories for you this morning. steve scalise is still in critical condition. he is still fighting because of that gunshot wound during that ambush at the virginia baseball
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