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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 23, 2017 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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seems like it's his own version of history. but he's the biggest fan of it. >> abraham lincoln, great president. most people don't even know he was a republican, right? does anyone know? >> thanks for watching, fareed zakaria "gps" starts right now. this is "gps the global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from london. today on the show, we've hit the six-month mark of the trump presidency. how would the uk and the world grade his performance so far? what do america's allies make of the president's relationship with vladimir putin? and with brexit on the horizon, what is the future of europe? i gathered a terrific panel here in london to discuss all that and more.
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also, chaos in venezuela. soaring inflation, a crashing economy, violent protests and yet a president determined to stay in power. this week, donald trump said the u.s. would not let that country crumble. i'll talk to a leader of venezuela's main opposition party. plus, the supreme court has agreed to hear a case that could reshape the american political landscape. the ruling could have a significant impact on district lines nationwide. will the court make elections fairer? and, finally, humans as we know them have roamed the earth for tens of thousands of years. are we on the verge of a new kind of human? homo sapien version 2.0. are we ready for that? but, first, here's my take. at the six-month mark of the trump presidency what i'm struck by is the path not taken. the lost opportunity.
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during the campaign, trump tapped into a real set of problems facing america. a deep frustration with the existing political system. he embraced and expressed somewhat inconsistently a left/right divide. what would things look like at this point if president trump had governed in the matter of a pr pragmatic jobs oriented reformer who was focused on those foreign americans of whom he often speaks? we have an interesting template to assist our imagination. after trump's election, a small group of pro-trump intellectuals from both left and right banded together to launch a journal "american affairs." the articulation of the ideology behind trump's rights and so much interest in the journal's views on various subjects that the editors opened the second issue with a brief summary of their editorial stance. on the central question of doomestic economic policy, american affairs seems
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marketedly different from and genuinely populous. republican ideology, for example, taxes, the editor is quite skeptical of the orthodoxy that prescribes tax cuts as the cure-all for every ill. while corporate tax reform is warranted, reducing upper income tax rates is unlikely in any significant way. instead the editors recommend eliminating, in addition the journal denounces financial deregulation and embraces large and direct on infrastructure and comes out in favor of universal health coverage. needless to say, this has not been the trump agenda. hearing these intelligent ideas has raised the question, why not? all these policies would have helped the forgotten people. there have been two cardinal
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features of the trump presidency so far. first from being a populous breakout, it has followed a fairly traditional republican agenda. repeal obamacare, weaken dodd/frank, cut taxes, deregulation industry. the only real break with republican tradition is on foreign policy where trump is pursuing a truly bizarre agenda instituting the travel ban, demanding payment from allies and embracing autocrats who flatter him and his family. the second defining feature of the trump administration has been incompetence. as many had pointed out, had trump began, he would have put the democrats in a terrible bind. they would have had to support him even though this would have enraged the party's base. health care a complicated, difficult issue sure to ignite his opposition and divide republicans. conseque consequently, very little has actually been done. obamacare is not repealed, no
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money has even been appropriated for the border wall, nafta is still standing and no tax reform or even an agreement to raise the debt seal. donald trump could have quickly. gon to reshape american politics. he discerned voices that others didn't, understood what they wanted to hear and articulated much of it. when it came time to deliver, it turned out that he had no serious ideas, policies, nor even the desire to search for them. he just wanted to be president, meeting world leaders, flying on air force one and having oval office photo-ops while delegating the actual policy to others. so far donald trump has turned out to be something far less revolutionary than expected. a standard issue, big business republican although pretty incompetent one, wrapped in populous clothing. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. let's get started.
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let's get right to my terrific panel now joining me ann applebaum and jonathan freedline is a columnist for "guardian" and host of "the long view." he also writes fictional political thrillers and david is self-proclaimed post-liberal is the author of "the road to somewhere." welcome. ann, i have to start with you because you spend much of your life in poland and it appears that there is something very big happening there. there are thousands, in fact, tens of thousands of people protesting on the streets right now. explain what's happening and do you think that donald trump's visit to poland in some way encouraged this process? >> yes, of course, this is the
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callm columnination of a year and a half. ran as a very standard kind of little bit to the right government. but has ruled very radically and has undermined the press, has taken over the army. has made a lot of radical policy choices and most recently they enacted a series of laws, which would curtail the independence of the judiciary. essentially allow the government to dismiss the entire supreme court and reappoint it. that's why you're seeing demonstrations in the street. >> did trump have something to do with it? >> trump arrived right at the moment when they were about to announce these laws. and, essentially, appeared to endorse the government. he said very complimentary things about him and he gave a speech in which we all remember as a kind of prowest speech. but in which he very carefully described the west as a civilization, somehow opposed to islam or maybe even opposed to russia. but a civilization rather than a set of democratic ideals and principles. the polish government heard that
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and thought, right, he's on our side. others in europe are very critical and the united states will back us and then they went ahead with this reform. >> they call this the trump effect that they went to poland and encouraged a certain behavior and went to sark and encouraged foreign policy behaviors. david goodhart, do you look at this populism in government and say it's too radical? >> well, i mean populism in europe is 15%, 20% of europeans vote in western europe these parties relatively uninfluential. in eastern europe it's slight different. the whole government is populist in some ways. that party reflects a different history. it partly reflects perhaps the huge, the radical effects of joining the european union very quickly after the end of
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communism. perhaps in retrospect that whole process happened too quickly. enormously disruptive. >> so, you think this might be the natural growing pains of -- >> yes, i think to some extent and some of it is pretty ugly. but i do think we have to keep it in that historical perspective. these sanetists have been through huge disruptions and the same, in a way, with the american attitude. we sort of talk about this as if it's new. but it reflects very much the kind of language we're hearing at the time of the iraq war. do you remember? old europe and new europe. new europe with the new guys on our side. old europe with, you know, france and germany. >> a big difference, isn't it? in that period, the bush period where bush felt what he should do when he came to these countries made the case for democratic universal norms. yes, these are fledgling democracieso emerging from tyranny. if democracy is fragile, you
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have to shore it up and give it support. i agree with what ann was saying, he didn't speak in liberal democratic norms and, essential character. instead he spoke as if it was a cultural, sectarian conflict where there was europe and christian europe against unnamed other. not just what he says when he goes to these places, but what he doesn't say. free press, independent judiciary and the stuff we learned to tune out because we were so used to it from every president. he doesn't say that. the people in the countries hear what he's not saying and take that as a cue. >> do you think theresa may is looking to donald trump for some kind of support as britain navigates its kind of post-eu existence? >> i think theresa may fears very much being isolated and looked initially to trump as a kind of -- she was one of the first, i think the first
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european leader to go to washington. and she was looking for a trade deal, a comment, something that would give her government the appearance of having allies somewhere else. that's backfired a little bit here because he's so unpopular here. he's openly attacked the mayor of london in the wake of several terrorist attacks. a few weeks ago. she's now in a very odd position where he's her only ally. true demonstrations if he came. >> he wants wants to only come when he's guaranteed a positive reaction here. i think he wants it to be like saudi arabia where i want you to fix it so there are no banners on the streets. the second thing if he's seriously only coming when he's popular, then he should put a date of never because he will not get an appointment here. he's held himself into a position where, unfortunately, i think he may have a very long wait. >> played a relatively good
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game. don't forget, if hillary clinton had been elected, which everybody assumed she would be, we would now be very isolated of brexit, presumably hillary clinton taking the same line that obama took. back at the cue for any kind of trade deal. it has been very important having trump there for uk. and he has been talking about, you know, being the first in queue to deal with trade deal with britain after we leave. it's tricky because he's so unpopular against britain and europe but played that british game of trying to be the british who act as the bridge between the aunruunruly americans. she did when she had that first visit she did get some language out of him about nato and article five, which he hadn't said before and i think that was quite reassuring. just imagine the situation which everybody in europe, including the brits, were against him.
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you know, you wonder then whether actually if things got even more unstable. >> we have to take a break. when we come back, we'll discuss more about populism, upcoming german elections and charlie guard. who should decide what happens to a child in desperate conditions, when we come back. keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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trump was able to do something that vladimir putin was not, he reunited the europeans. >> there is a common adversary and you saw that very clearly at the g20 where the u.s. was isolated on climate change. 19-1 with the 1 being the united states. the united states to lose that soft power. friends of america should be aware of that. rested on its power of moral authority and that soft power is draining away every day donald trump is in the white house. people observe these stories and sean spicer and tweets, but an underlying trend that says america is less to be listened to in the world. it will come back under different leadership, but, for now, that is the feeling. and has has helped unite europe and invigorated leadership in paris. macron in terms of decline is
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kind of back and angela merkel is strong and established and in some ways the most stable leader in the world, actually. the two of them together has made europe more with a spring in its step, a bit more confident. part of brexit was let's leave this structure of europe there in decline and look at the economic numbers and it's britain that is lagging behind and europe that looks like it has some new confidence. >> so, david, you wrote this wonderful book about people, the somewheres and the anywheres, populism and brexit. does trump follow the same pattern? is he a break from it? >> yes, i think my book essentially about the value divisions in rich democracies and the large number of quarter of populations and perhaps almost a third who tend to be highly educated and mobile and value openness and autonomy.
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>> they can live anywhere. >> they tend not to be very -- they tend to not have very strong group attachments. tend to value security and familiarity and they still do have strong group attachments. >> they derive from the juography thjuau geography they were living. >> the brexit vote was against the politics that for more than a generation has been completely dominated by anywhere priorities, in a way. and the same in america. i think with trump who drew his support very much from people that came from those left behind communities. and i think, you know, you do see this kind of bigger picture playing out in the european union. the tensions are merging. it is a very, very anywhere institution. for the first 50 years of its existence, it enormously
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outperformed expectations. extraordinarily successful. in the last 20 years a very different story. from the mid-'90s all of the big projects have failed from some extent. the euro, the role of the euro has been a disaster and a cyclical upturn in the moment. enlargement with unqualified movement has not been successful in some way. the refugee crisis. you know, not to mention second order things like ukraine. the european union and that is partly because it is partly a post-national kind of institution at a time, in an era when people still looked at the nation state first. that tension hasn't been able to accommodate. >> we have to go to this charlie gard story because i'm fascinated by it because it has crossed the atlantic. this child who is in very bad condition has his doctors at a british hospital that say you
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should not move him. let him die in this hospital. the parents have raised money through a campaign by "daily mail" and such to move him to america. a court is going to decide this this week. what should happen? >> i think, i'm not a medical or legal authority. and, yet, that has not prevented many people from weighing in on this debate. one thing that is from the starting point, a terrible tragedy for that family. what is so noticeable is how it has become, as you have been saying, immediately politicized and it actually maps a bit what david was talking about. a whole lot of people defending the family's rights to decide against the establishment and against the experts and against those wagging their finger and telling us what to do. some overlapping even in the personnel of the campaign with the parents. the anti-european and populous party. part of this overall mood from si science and data and what
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matters more is what people feel and what people's emotions are. >> my main take away is that it's extraordinary how this very british story has been interpreted in the american context as an argument about our health care system. americans always see the world through their own eyes and through their own politics. just another example of it. >> really about how in britain with the universal health care. >> evil, evil state institutions against the valus of the private family. >> the government is deciding rather that parents -- >> just super simplications. >> in britain people don't think of the nhs so much as the government. more your doctors deciding. we have to quit at that. next on "gps," this week donald trump said the u.s. will not stand by as venezuela crumbles. what did he mean as venezuela's president takes steps to rewrite that country's constitution.
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violence has fled in venezuela amid a worsening economic crisis in recent months. political unrest has intensified as president nicolas maduro plans to rewrite that country's constitution. this week president trump weighed in accusing maduro of threatening u.s. sanctions if he continues with those plans. but maduro's government has proceeded with a july 30th vote to select a special assembly to rewrite the constitution. i'm joined by the leader of venezuela's parliament which is controlled. can you explain to us how likely it is that president maduro will succeed in rewriting the constitution?
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>> well, listen, one week ago we had a huge and beautiful demonstration from venezuelan people. 7,500,000 venezuelans go to the streets in a very peaceful way in order to cast a vote to say to maduro's government and to the world that we don't want a constitutional assembly named unilaterally by maduro. what we want right now in venezuela is very simple and very deep. we want free elections according to the current constitutions and maduro have to respect the current constitution. maduro is out of the constitution right now and the whole world and the whole venezuelan people is pushing him in order to follow the rule of law, the check and balance and the values of democracy in venz
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will y venezuela. >> it seems to me hugo chavez his predecessor was able to rule with a certain kind of populous charm and in those days -- maduro much more using force, using the army. are you worried that there could be an almost kind of civil war-like atmosphere developing in venezuela? >> well, i don't think that we are close to a civil war in venezuela because a civil war is supposed to have two equal or more les equal bans. what we have right now, the whole country, the whole democratic people in venezuela which is 90% of the population against a minority who is in power right now and it has no
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respect for the law, has no respect for the economy, has no respect for human rights. so, there is no divided society in venezuela right now and it was when chavez was alive. things have changed in venezuela dramatically. what we have right now is the whole country looking for democracy, looking for an open economy and looking for social justice and this is what right now what maduro want to stop in order to be in power all the time that he can to be in power. without no control over power. >> what would you like to see from the united states and, specifically, from donald trump? >> well, we have been calling to international community, not only the united states, latin
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american, the european union, the vatican, the united states. the whole democratic community in the world and we are calling for this week, which is crucial for venezuela, in order to go with us. and push maduro to stop the constitutional assembly and stop the constitutional assembly and open a real and deep negotiation with the participation of international community and to build a real agreement in which we can go to the people in order to ask for a new government, a new -- even a new parliament. whatever it means to go to real elections in venezuela and to go out to this violence that we are living right now. >> one of the tragedies that i've been watching is that you have millions of venezuelans,
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maybe tens of thousands, at least. hundreds of thousands fleeing and you have the strange example of of venezuelans migrating to other countries. i say strange because, as you know, for many, many decades, it was people from all over latin america who would flee their countries and come to venezuela that would flee a bad, oppressive or populous regime from other countries and come to venezuela. do you worry that the economy is in such bad shape at this point that it is in a freefall? >> yeah. what you're telling is very important because venezuela is not only a venezuelan problem right now. it goes our borders and it's a regional problem. we have almost half a million venezuelan people in colombia.
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in the election that we made last sunday, almost 300,000 venezuelan vote. there were vote venezuelan people all over 300 cities all over the world and we, we have become, unfortunately a country that is venezuelans to other countries. and this is part of the theme that we're not only a regional problem but a global problem and we need the help of other democracies in order to change where we are living in venezuela and another country open in a democratic way with very social justice and with opportunity for all. >> well, we wish you all the very best, sir. we wish you all the best. next on "gps," the u.s. supreme court has agreed to hear a case that could change the
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political landscape in this country. i'll explain when we come back. time's up, insufficient we're on prenatal care.es. and administrative paperwork... your days of drowning people are numbered. same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. we're coming for you, too. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done.
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now for our "world in the world" segment. in june the supreme court agreed to hear a case about gerrymandering which could literally reshape the american political landscape for generations. i'm not exaggerating. the case could be that monumental. a little background. in 2010, wisconsin republicans and their newly elected governor scott walker rested both the legislator from the democrats. they quickly took advantage of that opportunity and behind closed doors came up with a scheme to gerrymander state assembly districts to ensure future republican control, according to "washington post." the plan worked, during the next election held in 2012,
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republicans received only 46.6% of the vote but they managed to gain wisconsin's 60 of the state assembly seats. a huge majoritmajority. now five years later the supreme court has agreed to hear the case. the decision by the supreme court could have significance far beyond wisconsin's congressional and state assembly districts. it could impact how state and congressional districts are across all the united states. the case could send shockwaves across the political landscape. look at some of the most egregious examples of gerrymandering in pennsylvania, texas, illinois and maryland. even though both parties do it, gerrymandering one of the explanations of the republican control of congress since 2010. if we look at all the actual voess cast in the last three elections republicans have won a
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lopsided number of seats when compared to the actual votes they received. of all the congressional elections in 2012, the democrats received 1.3% more votes than republicans, yet the republicans somehow gained a 7.8% majority in congress. they wound up with 30 more seats than the democrats. republicans won 5.8% more votes but overpowered the democrats by taking in 13.6% or 59 more seats than the democrats. and in this last 2016 congressional election, republicans won the total number of votes by a narrow margin of 1% and yet managed to walk away with almost 11% more congressional seats. 47 in total than the democrats. these numbers show there is a significant electoral bias towards republicans in congress. according to a analysis by the brennan center for justice, a sizable portion of the pro-republican bias likely stems from deliberate manipulation of
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maps and that gerrymandering is a strong contributor to the republican majority in the house. many say it's not about gerrymandering at all but the democrats have painted themselves into a corner by clustering in cities. they can command more congressional seats because their numbers are spread out in more rural areas across the nation. there is some truth to that. so, the question then becomes, how do we better balance urban and rural republican and democratic voters to create fairer congressional districts? well, some states are getting it right. california and arizona, for example, they've taken the politics out of congressional redistricting by creating nonpartisan or bipartisan redestricting conditions. a computer program cited in a "washington post" article that created an algorithm to -- more
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balanced and optimaly compact like these. two scholars that have come up with a workable to determine when it has been gerrymandered. what all of this means more objective balance and nonpartisan ways to bring some fairness back to congress. the supreme court could well rule on wisconsin's redistricting case in its upcoming term. let's hope they vanquish the jerje gerrymandering once and for all. a way that sees the only path to fulfillment- is through others. ♪
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811 is available to any business our or homeownerfe. to make sure that you identify where your utilities are if you are gonna do any kind of excavation no matter how small or large before you dig, call 811. keep yourself safe. the last time i interviewed president obama in the white house, i asked him for book recommendations. the book he most passionatedly about is "sapians." >> a sweeping history of the human race. from 40,000 feet.
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and gives you a sense of perspective. and how briefly we've been on this earth. >> now, he has written a sequel to that first book. the new one is called "homo deus." welcome. >> good to be here. >> your last book was about the three big revolutions that produced, the modern human being. the cognitive revolution. how the brain developed and then you had the agricultural revolution and then the scientific revolution. that, in a sense, brings us to here. but now you seem to be implying that we are going to become most humans or more powerful than human beings with the aid of computers and computer technology. >> not just computers but bioooengineering but in effect if for thousands of years we have gained control of the world outside us, of the animal, the forest, the rivers, now what we
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are trying to gain control of the world inside us. >> and you see this, in some sense, we've been doing this for a while. we've been using medicine and various ways to strengthen the body, strengthen the brain. you see this in the physical realities of human beings today. why is this an inflection point? >> first, it changes from healing yourself or healing the body to upgrading. for thousands of years, we have this normal human health and if you fall below the norm, we give you a push to get you back to the norm. now, the idea is let's go beyond the norm and start upgrading. >> but are these really -- is this really an upgrade or are we using machines to enhance what we do? so, so much of what has happened so far is some kind of very fancy, prosthetic limb or an
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enhancement to muscle power. the computers, after all, still at this point assisting the human being in various senses. do you see us moving to the next phase where we are in a sense becoming fused with the machine or the machine is actually taking over? >> yeah, i think we'll see that humans fuse with their cell phones and their computers to the degree that they cannot be separated. not even physically. we will also see, we are already seeing authority shifting away from humans to external algorithms. for thousands of years we have accumulated more and more power in human hands. now, it's beginning to change and power and authority shifts away from us to these algorithms because maybe we are just no longer capable of making sense of what's happening in the world. too much data, too much change.
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we don't even know the most basic things about how the world would look like in 30 years. of course, there was always things we did know about the futu future. if you lived in the middle ages maybe in ten years the vikings invade and the black death and a third of the population will die. but about the basics you knew in 30 years most people will be peasants and men will dominate women. but 0 ye but 30 years from now nobody has a clue what the job market will look like and no idea what to teach kids in school today so they will have the necessary skills for the world of 2040. we keep teaching them the old stuff. i mean, most experts agree that this will be irvelerarelevant b time they're 40. but nobody knows what to teach them inside. >> compared to somebody like peter teal who said the promise of the scientific revolutions of
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today has been vastly overhyped that actually, you know, we were expecting flying cars and all we ended up with was 140 characters. you say that when you look at these, these revolutions and biotechnology and in artificial intelligence, it's the opposite problem. so profound we don't know what is going to happen. >> when it takes time, people in the industry, they think in terms of months and then you don't see much change. but if you think in terms of decades or in terms of the century or two, i think it's very likely that we're one of the last generations of homo sapiens and that within a century or two we will be replaced by something profoundly different. >> actually, not homo sapiens. >> not home oe searth will be d
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way different from me. nea nea neanderth neanderthals. we cannot imagine what might be in 50 or 100 years. >> a lot of people who would say wall street is neanderthals. but let me ask you, finally. does this all scare you? >> i think it should scare everybody. and not just me. i mean, of course, there's also very positive potentials for all this. you could have very cheap health care on your smartphone for billions of people that today don't have health care almost at all. once you have ai doctors. but also very dangerous potential. i mean, in the past, we used our power over the world outside it it, outside us to manipulate this world. because we didn't really understand the complexity of the world outside, the result is economic collapse, which we are now facing. we will do the same thing when we gain control of the world
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inside us. we'll try to manipulate our bodies, our brains, our minds. but because we are very far from understanding the complexity of our internal, ecknowledgice our internal, ecknowledgiceclog systsystem. >> on that sober note, we're going to have to end. come back. this is fascinating. >> thank you. next on "gps" one country's crude exports are skyrocketing and might not be where you expect. i'll explain when we come back. oh. no. no! when the unexpected strikes... don't worry we've got you covered. the hartford strikes back.
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the world's largest oil company is gearing up for an initial public offering that the kingdom hopes will value the company as high as $2 trillion. it brings me to my question. which country is expected to be a top oil exporter by 2020 joining saudi arabia on that list. is it china, qatar, mexico or the united states? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's "book of the week" is a terrific new book on india "super fast, primetime
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ultimate nation." the relentless invention of modern india by adam roberts who spent the last five years as the economist correspondent there. many such books by western reporters, dazzled, bewildered by its chaos and color. this one captures india today best. an easy, breezy read. the answer to my gps challenge question is, "d." by 2020, the united states will export 2.25 million barrels of crude oil per day up from this year's average of 940,000 barrels a day. according to the forecaster, s&p global plats. the u.s. is the third largest oiler producer after saudi arabia. after president obama signed a bill lifting a 40-year ban on oil experts in 2015, ov.
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>> all around the globe. >> with this president and his former exxon mobil ceo secretary of state, perhaps the answer to my question was not so surprising after all. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. and i will see you next week. hey, i'm brian stelter. welcome to our viewers in the united states and all around the world. this is a special edition of "reliable sources" after a seismic shift in the white house communication team. you know by now sean spicer in and anthony scaramucci in. where does that leave kellyanne conway? i'll ask her in just a moment. the bigger question is this. what, if anything, is going to change? can president trump solve the crisis of credibility that imperils his white house? we have an all-star panel standing