presidency. >> there's a lot to talk about. let's bring in the man in the middle, the new white house communications director anthony scaramucci. i haven't had a chance on television to congratulate you on the new position. >> thanks, chris. >> good luck and i hope you serve the people of this country well. >> i appreciate that, chris. thank you. so go ahead. i heard the introduction i'm ready for you. >> that's your job is to be ready. let's talk about what matters. health care. the president says an action is not an option. he is banging on members of his own party, most recently senator merkowski from alaska this morning saying she did her own constituents a disservice. it raises the question, how did she do her constituents a disservice? the bill that is out there right now, these kind of bald replacements, repeal statutes without understanding what the replacement is, the president called that notion mean when it

came out of the house. why is he now seeing the resistance by a senator as a failure? >> okay. so let's step back for a second. the reason the president is saying that is it if you lock at the macrofeatures of what's going on, the republican party for never and a half years has called for the repeal and replacement of obamacare. moreover, what we know from free market principles is that when you make something a little bit freer, and you decentral lies it, you get two positive benefits for the consumer and the patient. you get lower cost of delivery and better service. that happened in the air line industry, and telecommunications when it was deregulated and made freer. what the president is trying to do is make the health care system freer. however because it's washington, there are a lot of webs that have to be broken up like the cobb webs in your attic. we have to start with incrementalism. all good entrepreneurs have to

start somewhere. while things may not be perfect right now, whether it's repeal and replace or delay, you are moving the process towards a freer system where you will get the technological s servcurves you've experienced in our or areas. the uf a he no the been able to do that here because the centralized nature of the way the hospitals and doctors are interact wg the insurance companies. and so the president and secretary price and other members of the administration, frankly all the members of the administration under stand that. and what he's saying like a good possible coach, let's get off the same offensive game plan, don't focus on the micronature of this today. if you're a senator, but focus on the macrolong-term effects that this bill is going to have on the society and potszative effects on the economy. we don't want to see health care expenses continue to go from maybe it's 18 or 19% now, chris. into the mid 20s, that would be

disastrous for the economy. we've studied other countries where you can get it down and we have a plan to get it down. one of the bad news things about this, it's not going to happen overnight. you can't put something in place and expect it to be immediately. but what you can do is working with the great leadership of the president is move the process along to get it in a place where the american people will like in the next three, five and ten years. >> it seems to be a disconnect between the urgency the president has in any particular plan. you analogize him to a football coach. i would suggest where are the xs and 0s. the president doesn't have his own plan. we do know cost is a problem, the rate of increase is less since the aca. we get there is a need for fixes. but we don't get what the plan is to fix them. now we have the president saying act, act, abilict but with no direction on what to do. >> i want to respectfully

disagree with you. he would turn to the members of the house and senate who had never and a ha seven and a half years to come up with the plan. i now understand why this is so complicated and why we're not going to get everything done over night just the same way you can't build a building overnight. let's start the process, let's get the ball rolling towards a patient-centered freer decentralize the system. >> but he's called their -- >> those are the xs and 0s. >> he called the plan mean. he said is lacked heart and that you needed to take care of people. he said in his pre presidential life that he believed that everybody needed to be covered by health care. the. >> we're going to get there, chris. and so we're basically saying this is an evolutionary step toward a greater system, a more efficient system, a more cost effective system. >> how do you know that,

anthony, based on what's out there. >> let's go back to 1984 when the lobbyists in this community in washington were trying to block the breakup of at&t and it was eventually broken up into seven baby bells. taken data transmission effectively down to zero and led to the rise of the internet. you wouldn't have amazon, all these that have benefited the world without breaking up that system. >> but anthony there's no correlation or causation between what happened with tell a command what's going on with health care, even if zblsh zb. h >> i have to push back very hard on that. >> go ahead. >> there's an absolute correlation because i'm a trained economist and i'm here to tell you that when you break things up and deventrcentral li

them they always do better. >> i understand. >> but here's the thing. the step is only as good as the details of ta step. what is before the senate right now has been scored and found grossly lacking in terms of securing the promise of the president, which wasn't as simple as appeal and replace but to make it better. >> chris, we're going to win so much, chris, you're actually going to get tired of winning. let's go over what we did yesterday. we won yesterday. good on tre pre-- we're going t over the in ex-fnext few weeks figure out that's going -- >> how is it a win -- >> vote on a he proceed to your to move forward on a plan they don't understand. >> let me put it this way. suppose they did vote for it. that would be a loss.

you guys would be on the tv saying they couldn't vote for it or couldn't move it forward. >> that's optics. leadership would suggest you go to them and say go work a deal with the democrats. go take it to committee. >> you and you actually grew up in h a very similar neighborhood. we want things done -- >> that means fast. >> you ant i want that done. >> no i want it done right. is for this to be done in a way that makes it better. not just a political win. >> the way the founders put the system together, you have a lot of disruptive activity inside the system. >> but this is disruptive activity. this is a perversion of the normal process for political expedience. >> the way lincoln ended the war and realize the how much dissension was there -- >> why would you want this to be like the civil war. >> president wants to do the right thing he's got to operate inside this system.

get this done right now get it passed through the senate. do what all good entrepreneurs do. make refinements -- >> here's the question. the president seemed to suggest that he was going to come in from the outside and do better for people. how is what's happening right now a reflection of that? it was an end-run around the procedure. you now have them voting on things his own party isn't sure about, and the only thing that seems clear is that the republicans want to make good on their promise to destroy obamacare and they'll see that as a political win with their base but how is that better for people. >> i mean this with all due respect because you're obviously wicked smart. >> we all know that dpraz -- we're talking like an establishment tearian journal list that's wedded to the bureaucratic sclerosis in this city known as washington, d.c. >> that sounds like a hollow

criticism. >> no, no, no. the that's exactly what you're doing. >> by suggesting you need to do it the right way and make it better for people? >> that's being an establish men tarrian. >> because you're taking about once against the sclerosis and centralization and bureaucracy, all of the things that the people of the united states do not like about washington, d.c. and all of the reasons why the president was elected to come down here and try to disrupt it. now, my advice to these people here is give them the air cover, give them the opportunity, if it you want to blame it on him or us at the white house, go ahead but do the white thing for the american people en masse and the society and system will get better. if it you stay in the status quo in the lockstep of this establishment tarrian it will lead to disaster. you don't have to be that good at armath to know obamacare is

imploding. so why -- >> many experts in the field of health care disagree with that. all i'm saying. >> i couldn't hear you because i was trying to talk over you. le go i a head i'll let you talk. >> i'm saying experts disagree with the notion that broek obam is failing. but we all know that the aca needs fixing. i'm saying the president promised better. >> that's like the tobacco company saying. >> -- >> its -- these are the experts on that subject. >> we'll get the math, chris. super healthy young people would rather pay the tax penalty than enter the system. >> of course they would. they'd rather pay least. the that could tell you the tax penalty might be not high enough. >> that's a free market

principle. why not disrupt and decentral li lies -- i crease competition for the insurance companies. re-evaluate the way we're entering the market. and trust the process of the free market like in tell he com, like in airlines. better product did a better service at a lower price. >> we have the cbo to score. i'm saying what came out of the house thatter they're working out was called mean by this president -- >> we're going back to the mean word, which is fine. that shows what the president's compassion and heart. >> and his ability to read. because the cbo score said you would have tens of millions of more people not covered. >> so my message to you and the american people, be patient, have confidence that you've got people here that really understand what they're doing, over time, if you're expecting an instant cure, it's not going

to be provided by anybody here in washington. but if you listen to the president, who's a great builder and has a great vision, and you have a three-five and ten year time to look out at, by the end of the decade wee can make this dramatically bet every. the i tell me fellow republicans get on side. don't fight with the president here. we need your help. it's better for the american people long-term. take the incremental political heat today for a better society in the future. >> their ear saying back to you -- >> fellow american democrats who would have the courage to cross the line. that's another thing that happens here in washington. nobody crossing the line. >> you just created a process with this vote where they can't really cross the line effectively because the amendment structure is controlled by the republicans but let's see what they come out to. let me move on to something else. what's going on with jeff sessions? are you a man who is known for dealing face-to-face with people

as talking straight to people. that's not what's going on here. the you've got the president openly bullying one of his earliest supporters. it's upsetting just to his own party. it wound up being a little bit of a distraction to the vote yesterday. you say you don't agree. the how is this the right thing to do? >> i didn't say i don't agree. i was going to say that everybody's got a personality differences and everybody has different style affects for the personality. one of the things that i like about the president that some people in washington perhaps don't like about the president is the up-frontness. if he's unhappy with my job and he tweets 0 ut aboout about me pretty sure guy i'm okay. i would go and talk to him, can i improve this, can i make it better for you. >> you don't think up-front is coming to anthony and saying you're falling down on the job? >> i think it's pret up-front.

>> not talking to jeff sessions? goes to twitter. >> probably one of the 113 million people. i get the point. i understand what you're saying but i'm also saying something. you remember ed koch who was a friend and not so much a friend of your dad's. he had a great line. i'm not getting the cancer. i'm giving you the cancer. the point is the president is very expressive guy and he's going to let the society know and the people of the united states know how he feels on a day-to-day basis. i'm telling my fellow friends that happen to be cabinet secretaries that this is his style and nature. you've got to have a very tough skin to work for and deal with the president, but if he respects your honestly and loyalty, somebody said as you guys were entering this segment that the loyalty not president is one-sided. that's absolute nonsense. if you take care of him, he's going to take care of you. i saw it yesterday.

i can't tell you the number of people when i was sitting in h the oval office that he was calling and thank for doing the right thing thor the united states. when i hear the nonsense that the president is one-sided loyalty that's a bunch of nonsense. the american people, in ohio, in the american people in west virginia over the last two days, if it you saw those crowds, chris, you would know how much the president is loved and how much the american people in general want the nonsense to end in washington. >> first of all, anthony, the president's generating the nonsense on this. and i don't know how you think it's going to engender loyalty young your team if the message to them is hey, do right by the president, if you don't he's going to out you on twitter before he talks to you face-to-face. >> we're going -- >> you know fellow senators in your own party -- there's no argument, anthony, because the reality tells a very specific story.

people within your own party are saying stop bullying jeff sessions. >> chris, chris. chris. the results speak for themselves. you and i are going to want to argue that as managerial style. >> i don't think it's managerial. >> $10 billion and started for the presidency on june 16 of 2015 and six months into the presidency. the we can argue about it, but i think the result and success speak for themselves. >> you think's ge to re- >> watch over the next 6 to 12 months what we do here in term the of transforming the way people mi people think about government and what we do in terms of improving society. >> do you think he's going to get rid of jeff sessions because he seems to be injuring him in public. >> i don't know the answer to that. and so but what i would suggest to both the -- again, i don't want to get in the middle of the president and one of his cabinet secretaries, but since the president has said this to 113

million people i'll say it to your viewership although the press says your viewership is not so good. here's what i would say to your viewership and to both of them if they were standing here together. >> have they spoken. >> i would recommend to every cabinet secretary have a tough skin. >> have they spoken? >> i don't know the answer. >> you don't know the answer or the answer is no they haven't spoken? >> here's the other thing i'm not one of those ob f-- i actua don't know the answer. >> so you don't know what happens going forward on that? let's move to a different issue. the leaks. you got rid of somebody inside the staff. was it because you thought they were a leaker? >> no. the i had never met the person personally. i got rid of somebody inside the staff because somebody above my rank had suggested that that

person needed to be fired. now here's the problem with this whole thing. i want to i a apologize. i'm not going to mention his name on the air but i want to apologize to the person. >> i didn't say his name for a reason either. >> i understand that either because we're both compassionate people. didn't want to fire him as much as we wanted to give him the opportunity to resign, i talk to the him lanight by phone. i said i'm here to help you find another job because whatever happened right 0 are wrong inside the administration you've got a long life. i've got a long life let me help you build your career. the i also believe in redemption. people are fallible people. myself included. the i have a whole phone book of fall b fallibility. the i called him last night said the reason somebody above my wrappingk i rank said you had to be let go.

i had to septemberd a message. if he asked me to do something i'm actually going to go do it. i'm not a politician, chris. i'm going to be an entrepreneurial business executive that's going to try to inject some accountability into the system and what i told the people that work forme in the communication the department rjt i would like the leaks to stop. now all of the cynics around here and the tweets saying the leaks are never to go going to stop. you say you are acorrect. the but if i can dial back the leaks in h the department that i am representing and the department that i am running, then i will feel i've accomplished something on behalf of our president. i don't think i can stop the leaks -- senior people that are leaking on each other. i would tell my 0 colleagues to stop doing that. the it eembarrassing and makes you look very small when you're leaking on your colleagues. that's not good team sports. i also told the guys in the

communications department that you will never hear me say hey, go leak xyz on so and so i want to influence the president's decision on firing the guy. i will never do that. this guy's terrible. >> one, you said somebody above your wrappingk wanted him out. was that the president. >> i didn't answer the question, chris. i'm getting so subtle and surgical in term the. >> you're as subtle as a heart attack. you report directly not president. >> just remember what koch said. the. >> you want to bring up ed koch, may he rest in peace. let's talk about him. he called you on the phone. and he said mario, i got a problem with you. or whoever it was i have a problem with you. he dealt man to man, face-to-face because he believed people deserved the dignity. >> look. >> this is not an ed koch meddlmeddlodel. >> this is a guy that's made $10 billion for himself and family

and a guy that is -- doing well and do it the right way -- >> ed koch once said if you believe in nine out of the 12 things i'm saying you should vote for me. then if you believe 12 out of the 12 you need a psychiatrist. >> ed koch -- >> plan in place, vote. >> did the president tell you get rid of this guy, he's one of the leakers? >> i'm not going to answer that question because. >> why? >> because you just said i wasn't going answer. >> what happened to being straight? >> i'm straightly straightly not answering your question. >> apt you know what that ug ises. >> you know, what does it suggest? >> if you don't want to answer the question, is ug ises that yes, it was him that told you not to do it because other ways you'd say no wasn't him. >> i've already answered it. the you've not really a derivative thinker. i said somebody above my wrappingk. >> you're urt hurting my feeling. >> when i tease you you're very

upset. >> i'm never upset. it's never personal for me except for the fact i have a little bit of affection for you. >> same here, but let me say this to you. whether it's cnn or any other news organization, that is here at the white house, we are open for business. and i believe. >> good. >> the first amendment, as does the president and i'm here to tell you i would like fair treatment and objective coverage. i always respect you for asking tough questions, let's give the president an opportunity to get the agenda out. >> the president has been invited on new day on a regular basis. sometimes i look into the camera say you are the best advocate. come on the show. >> when the time is right, when the time is right and the president wants to do that or doesn't want to that will be up to him. what i want to do for all of these news outlets is create the environment and create the exposure and relax some of the tension and anxiety.

we're going to be open for business with the cameras this afternoon and let's try to create the relationship where we hold each other accountable but give us the opportunity to explain your several fos the american people what we're trying to do to help the country. >> let me ask you a couple more questions, jeff sessions, is it true he's putting together a plan to investigate leakers in the white house ant beyond? >> i wouldn't say just the white house. the i want to work very closely with him as the director of communications anlsds i want to work with the other agencies and departments to get our message coordinated amongst ourselves and uproot some of these leakers. i'm not naive i we're never going to end all the leaking. i didn't suggest that but i want to put a culture in place where people trust each other. >> isn't that instilling a culture of fear if you're chasing people who leak? i mean if they're not leaking classified information -- >> hold on a second.

i sat in an office with a group of 40 people and said listen i will do anything i can to help your careers ant further your opportunities in future but for right now we surf one person and his agenda. that's the president of the united states. you are not serving the president's agenda if you're nefariously leaking. >> but a leak isn't necessarily nefarious. this white house leaks more than most because of a collective insecurity. >> let's talk about that. if if you take the psychological equation of insecurity plus under confidence. i've run two successful businesses. always equals paranoia. it always does. the so what we have to do is go step by step, person to person and figure out if we can fortify their confidence and security. if we can't do that we have to ask them to leave because nefarious leaking is disloyal to the president, disloyal to the institution of presidency and

bad for america. >> doesn't that start at the top? h the president staying on message, no the saying things that are outragious. >> hold on a second. now you're talking about two different things, do you want to stay on the leaking. >> i think there's correlation and causation to the two but explain it the way you like. >> i don't agree with that at all. the president has a very unique communications style. le i would argue people will say i'm -- im just being objective. arguably the most media savvy person. use the twitter, facebook and instagram to hit directly to the american people. it's the reason why we spent less money and less staff during the campaign and won the election. look at it for what it is. there are vagueries on the bell curve of his media style that the media don't like. maybe some of the elites in washington really don't like.

if you look at the physical base, you'll see that the base and majority of the american people, certainly all the american people that voted for him either don't care about the tweets. they find them funny. they find them refreshing. they don't--actually not what the. >> actually not what the survey shows. shows most people don't think they're appropriate and aren't big fans. >> they're still voting for him. still the president. >> very voted for him. >> he's living--living in the residence up here in the elites aren't. that's the last time i checked. >> i would say that what definition of elite donald trump not fit? he's one of the wealthiest people in h the country, always been on the outside working with the insiders in washington since you and i were born. >> that is the -- >> i just don't know how you call him an outsider and not -- >> isn't that the best thing about him that he's wickedly

wealthy and able to play golf at these courses. >> i hope not i hope how much money he has isn't the best thing about him. >> you won't let me finish. and then all of that he's still able to relate to regular people and regular people are cheering and identifying with him. the he's able to identify systemic problems in the middle class and lower class despite his wealth. how about that for e. >> he has a great gut during the campaign and now he has the opportunity to make those problems better. >> we should end the enter view. he had -- that could be the most positive thing that's been said about the president on cnn. being italian i would actually hug you but. >> i feel taffection anthony.

>> when due, he gets the praise. he gets what he gives and deserves. the that is the job of testing power. last question. is the president going to sign the sanctions bill? >> okay. so there was -- again, i want to explain this to you. sarah said one thing that he likes most of the elements of that ill about. apparently i said i didn't know. so it was a little bit of confusion and one of the "new york times" reporters called me and i said look, go with what sarah's saying it's my second or third day here. vif to sit down with the president and ask him that and then ask how would you like me to communicate that to the media. what i'm going to say to you at this point, i person fall loi don't know. i don't want people reading into that saying oh, the communication director said the president's not signing it. i think i have to understand it better. i would rather tell you with great truth that i'm not up to speed on the issue rather than make something up. >> all right. i accept you at your word. good luck going forward.

you're always welcome on new day to make the case. >> i appreciate it. thank you for letting me be here. >> you've given us a lot to gnaw on. there's even new phrases, symmetry cal loyalties. i look forward to exploring and defining a lot of stuff to talk about. than goodness we have alt of our political heavy wareights on ou panel. stay with us. we'll be right back. >> he said he wanted to hug me. . ddos campaigns, ransomware, malware attacks... actually, we just handled all the priority threats. you did that? we did that. really. we analyzed millions of articles and reports. we can identify threats 50% faster. you can do that? we can do that. then do that. can we do that? we can do that. can we do that? i needed something more to help control my type 2 diabetes.

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president trump intensifying his attacks on his attorney general jeff sessions. president, though, will not say whether he plans to fire sessions. joining us now is democratic senator richard blumenthal. good morning, senator. >> good morning. the good to be with you. >> do you think that jeff sessions will be the attorney general a month from now? >> i do think he will be, because there would be a fire storm of opposition to the president firing him, or forcing him to resign. the only reason that the president has said he wants jeff sessions to resign is that he

recused himself, which means he can't fire bob mueller, the special prosecutor. if the president wants a political lap dog to fire bob mueller that will meet with very strong opposition on both sides of the aisle here on capitol hill. >> it's interesting you said that because we just had senator from ohio on with us in the last hour who said what he thinks is going to happen is that the president is going to fire jeff sessions and then he will rely on an august recess appointment. so that all of you will not be around to try to stop him and then the president would fill that slot with what brown's words were one of his fliunkief >> there would be republican strong vehement opposition to that. the aren is on both sides of the aisle there is a feeling that the special council is the best

means to uncover the truth about russian meddling. no question it occurred, and about to be trump campaign conspiracy with that collusion. >> what do you do if it's a recess appointment. what could you do if it you all were gone? >> there are tactics and methods, using parliamentary tools that could be used to stop a recess appointment. and, as leader schumer said yesterday, chuck schumer of new york said absolutely we will use every tool available. because this firing of bob mueller goes to the administration. it's bigger than jeff sessions. the administration of a law, the integrity and independence of the fbi, and of the special prosecutor are essential to the fairness and integrity of our democratic institution. >> okay. the let ace talk about what's happening with the investigation into the russian meddling and

whether or not there was any collusion. i understand your committee wants to interview paul manafort who was the trump campaign chair. why did you drop the subpoena? >> the chairman and ranking member decided they wanted to pursue negotiations about paul manafort's appearance to provide testimony and also documents. the now, my personal preference as a prosecutor, having been a united states attorney 0 and our state attorney general is to always have subpoenas, and i believe that subpoenas will be necessary. >> because you don't think they will voluntarily cooperate? >> so far, they haven't and they have seemed like people with something to hide. i think we will need subpoenas for them and jarrod kushner who was at that meeting and the question is what other meeting,

what other documents exist. and the only way to be absolutely sure that we will have all those documents and public testimony -- not just behind closed doors, have it under oath, not just on the promise it's honest, is to issue subpoenas. >> but just to be clear, what you're telling us is that thus far, the documents you want and information you want out of don junior, the president's son and paul manafort, has not been provided. >> so far, there have been few, if any documents provided by either donald trump junior or paul manafort. that course is inadequate, as far as i'm concerned, and they need -- ultimately, i think to be subpoenaed. >> weren't they supposed to testify today? >> paul manafort ant donald trump jr. initially were expected to it offed testify to. i think ultimately what has to

happen is sworn testimony in public. the so that the american people can see what their version is and so they can be challenged based on the documents that we have, the give and take of examination and questions is what will elicit the truth, and the american people can judge what reforms need to be done, and what we need to recommend as the judiciary committee to prevent this kind of russian meddling again. the russians need to pay a price and the sanctions bill theneeds be passed in the senate and the president needs to sign it to send a message to the russians we will not tolerate that kind of meddling again and reforms will be adopted to stop this kind of attack on our democracy. >> do you think the president will sign that? >> i just listened to anthony scar

say he was going to sit down with the president and ask him what he was going to do so i have no more knowledge than that latest version from one of the highest ranking people in white house. let me say if he fails to sign it, he will be overridden. he would be really foolhardy. >> thank you so much for joining us. great to talk to you. >> thank you. >>. all right. good. we got the democrat there. we had scaramucci representing the white house. let's bring in the panel and synthesize. jo john, julie pace and cnn politics reporter and editor. chris cillizza. the what did you find the point to be. >> first of all, plugging my daily news letter will get you everywhere. >> second only to amanda wakes up which i have on my bedside table. >> i'm hearing a lot of buzz about amanda takes up which i

recently purchased. >> it's funny you mentioned it because a lot of people have been talking about amanda wakes up. >> what does john think about it. >> >> lots of people are talking about it. >> aside from the proposed scar a much chi cuomo suggest, he is fascinating i think anthony scaramucci's belief and recipe for success in this white house in his new job is to act and sound as much like donald trump as humanly possible. i was amazed he said we're going to win so much you're going to get board of winning. that is a donald trumpism 101. the refusal to explain that the firing of the press aide came bre directly from trump.

saying i straightly decided not to answer your question. i mean the interview had a lot of trump feel to it. i think -- with some scaramucci genius. not unlike with analy-- anthony one of the most intelligent people i know, and that's why his response was, well, i said you're not answering the question. that suggests that it was a president. the well it's because you're no the a derivative thinker. he's a smart guy. >> he's a smart guy in that he understands what donald trump likes are people who look and sound like donald trump. and i think he did a lot of that in that interview. he regularly talked about search people loved donald trump. you know, i think donald trump watching that and frankly, let's be honest. we know he watches this stuff. anthony understand ps the best way to keep your job in this

white house is to make the boss happy and the best way to do that is to talk like the boss. >> you took copious and indecipherable notes. >> just look at the image. >> what did you hear? >> i think he gives a good spin but it's all impressionistic arguments. he was debating chris, one-on-one, but it was for an audience of one. the president of the united states. there's always a problem when people promote mini mes. he is a very smart advocate but he didn't deal with any of the substance. the argument about health care was all macro. freer system, de central ease the but specifically no details. and that's a problem that's difficult to spin your way out of if you care about policy. i stead take the first step. where that rubber meets the road that this president has the

lowest approval rating of any president at a six-month mark. that's not judging by the results and everybody should feel great about the progress in the white house. he's speaking like the press, t -- like the president. still a lot of gap between the rhetoric and reality. >> his suggestion, anthony's ss true that the attorney general is looking into leak ing in the white house, may actually salvage his tenure as attorney general. very troubling. i'll tell you why. you have to distinguish between leaking of confidential or national security information which could jeopardy dies us with what is much more traditional and in greater supply than i have ever seen in this white house, which is people who are either worried that the agenda isn't being properly articulated by the president. who are anxious about their own station or who simply want to

get out the ideas they think are better, and to police that as well, may come at a great cost? >> absolutely. i think one, it's no surprise that jeff sessions as he fights to hang on to his job is going to come out and say he's going after leaks. this is something that's near and deer to the president's heart. we have to be really clear about what we're talking about on leaks. there are leaks of classified information. the this is something that past administrations have gone after. it is illegal. if you talk to folks in the media, reporters like myself, we look at this one way but this is illegal. then there's this whole other category of leaks. people leaking things because they believe their age agencies aren't pursuing the right agenda. the cabinet cabinet agencies are simply doing nothing at all. and then the leaks inside the white house coming from pretty senior people. to go after those kind of leaks

to try to crack down there to pursue investigations against people like that, that is a really dangerous precedent that i hope most americans can agree is something we should not support. >> the anthony scaramucci line to chris that leakers are insecure and underconfident and that his job would be to make sure people need to be more confident and more secure, i mean that's -- obviously a gross generalization of why people leak information and hugely o r oversimplistic. >> my point is that the administration doesn't like any of this. they don't draw that distinction that you all have made so well between illegal and sort of common place. they want to crack down on all of it. panel, thank you very much. so, president trump said that he could be more presidential than any of his predecessors except for abra

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. who is the most presidential president of all time?

president trump says he is except for one. >> it's so easy to act presidential but that's not going to get it done. in fact i said it's much easier, by the way, to act presidential than what we're doing here tonight. believe me. and i said -- and i said, with the exception of the late, great abraham lincoln, i can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. that i can tell you. >> there's actually a lot of to unpack in there. we have our cnn political commentator and former -- great to see both of you. matt. the what i am struck by is not

that i'm most presidential other than abraham lincoln. it's what he first said. i can be presidential. that's easy. but that's not going to get it done. what does that mean to you? >> well, to me, i think what it means to millions of people who were kind of like captured by the idea that we would consider electing this first outsider as president, the idea was that it would take an outside voice who was a littlest respectful of the way things are always done in washington, someone ha had a hewn niq unique and aggressive view on how you get your agenda done to take on what he views as the liberal bias in the media, to take on the swamp, as he calls it. the rbureaucracy in washington, d.c. and all of those foes that stand in the way of republican president es. >> i argue with you. i think he's telling us that.

but, his public opinion polls might beg to differ. >> i don't know. i mean the one thing we have in this country i was on the presidential campaign in 2,000 which was settled in a that recount in florida. we are incredibly polarized. we've been like that for a very long time. we were like that under obama, trump, george w. bush. it's where we are as a country and there's no question that donald trump has a different tactic. it's not trying to love everybody. the he's fighting trying to demonstrate to people that he will fight to the death for things he cares about. >> obviously this wa z something you tyke exception to during the campaign. the question is, is the campaigner of trump, who preyed on cynicism and division, is that working for him as president in your estimation?

>> well it's certainly working for him with his base. his baz is frankly not budging, which is very impressive. this conversation we're having today about being the most presidential but for abraham lincoln, guys, you've never done hall lus in a general academ hall lus in a general licks mushrooms us -- i mean at some point you just got to laugh at the absurdity. first of all, that somebody -- six months into his presidency he's comparing himself to the other 44 presidents which have include the great giants like thomas jefferson, george washington, like fdr. ronald reagan. it is just mind blowing. but it's donald trump who is brag a dough shus. maybe jus let's wait until your term is over and mechanic just

let's wait until his story is in history judges you. he's not going to wait. the but i just -- i think the entire thing is somewhere between absurd, hilarious and panic-inducing. >> matt, let's move on. the jeff sessions. is he long for this post? >> i don't know. i mean this is the painful thing. i've known jeff sessions and had deep respect for him. there's a lot of sessions people who are pop eulate the throughout the trump administration in important jobs. i saw him election night in trump tower and he was the happiest man in america. >> do you think the president should be publicly dressing him down like this. >> i have said that i don't understand why he would do it that way because if you look at the way the dominos fall, alisyn,s if jeff sessions leaves, rod rosenstein will be

the acting attorney general. it's him who i think made thor rant decision to pick a special council and panicked when he started to get controversy. it would be the height of irony that the person who picked the special council would then be in charge. i don't think that makes a lot of sense. i just want these two guys to get together in a room and hug it out. i think they need to come to a resolution. i think it's going to be between the president an jeff sessions. he serves at the pleasure president. the president wants him to leigh, he will leave. but i'm hoping they get it resolved. >> how big a deal would it be for the president if he were to move on jeff sessions. >> let's not talk about drugs. >> i think it would be huge. i think it would be a very big problem for republicans particularly if that move on jeff sessions leads to firing mueller which is why republicans

have got to stand up guest this all the time. can we please stop mincing words. what he is doing to jeff sessions is horrible. i don't even like the guy. and i feel sorry for him. i feel like i'm in catechism class and watching the mart ter dom of session the. it is horrible. >> daily tormenting, hue mill iating. and showing everybody that loyalty does not matter to donald trump. >> thank you. very much. that was a fun segment. jefferson bore -- aka the piñata for president trump. >> cnn news room with poppy harlow is going to pick up right after the break. stay with. finally, listening to my wife, went to a doctor. and i became diagnosed with hodgkin's lymphoma ...that diagnosis was tough.

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all right. good morning everyone. i'm john berman. >> and i'm poppy harlow. as of 9:00 a.m. here on the east coast jeff sessions is still the attorney general and senate republicans have not passed a health care overhaul yet. will that be the case at the end of the show. as the president will say only time will tell. the senate is expected to take up an appeal only proposal. this just hours after lawmakers rejected the republicans most comprehensive plan to repeal and replace. >> this morning the president is on the attack against key votes