if republicans do end up going for these mayor races this issue right now in a lot of cities it could be the vehicle. >> we got to leave it there. thanks everybody for watching "360." i hope you have a great weekend. i'll see you monday night. "cnn tonight" starts right now. another bombshell from the white house caps off a week of chaos. this is "cnn tonight." i'm pamela brown in for don lemon. reince priebus is out, general john kelly is in. the president accepting the resignation of his cnn learning priebus resigned privately yesterday, but the writingeen had b the wall for some time now. the president making the announcement, of course, on twit. >> and going on to say this -- >> reince priebus was a good man, john kelly will do a fantastic job. >> and reince priebus tells our wolf blitzer that he's just fine with all of this. >> he intuitively determined that it was time to do something

differently and i think he's right. we have breaking news tonight on the russia investigation and the question that's been looming over this administration during a week of chaos and upheaval. president trump will sign the russian sanctions bill we've learned tonight. in a statement the white house said president donald j. trump read early drafts of the bill and negotiated regarding critical elements of it. he has now reviewed the final version and based on its responsiveness to his negotiations, approves the bill and intends to sign it. the legislation which was sent to the white house today would sanction russia while sharply limiting the president's ability to ease penalties against moscow independently. so a lot to discuss tonight. let's get right to cnn global affairs analyst david rohde. we have a counterterrorism analyst joining us along with april ryan and david swerdlick. david, i want to start with you

on this breaking news about the sanctions bill. did the president really have a choice here? move politically.s the right if he had vetoed this bill it adds more fuel to the whole russia fire. smart political move for the white house. let's give them credit tonight for doing the thing i think was the clear correct choice politically. >> and of course all of this is happening amid the shake-up with his chief of staff. reince priebus is out. secretary john kelly, formally of dhs is in. reince sat down with wolf blitzer tonight for his very first interview right after his resignation. take a listen. >> look, i think the president wanted to go a different direction. i support him in that and like i said a couple weeks ago, i said the president has a right to change directions. the president has a right to hit a reset button. i think it's a good time to hit the reset button. i think he was right to hit the reset button and i think it was -- it was something that i think the white house needs. i think it's healthy and i support him in it.

>> david, reince he was a loyal soldier right there to the very end, but this must have been tremendously difficult, if not humiliating for him. >> yeah, you know, it's amazing. this "new yorker" story i worked on and ryan lizza broke it yesterday. it was extraordinary what scaramucci the new communications director said about reince priebus 24 hours later, priebus is fired, scaramucci is still there. so it's got to be humiliating. this is the way the president runs his white house. it's a tough operation. the question is can he sustain this, this turnover of staff, can he treat people this way? if you treat people this way will it lead to better performance or poorer performance and it's again not a very good track record. >> there has been a lot of turnover thus far. and i want to play re with wolf's interview with reince. take a listen. >> are you the leaker in the white house? >> that's ridiculous.

come on. >> why not respond? >> because i'm not going to. it doesn't honor the president. i'm going to honor the president every day. i'm going to honor his agenda and i'm going to honor our country and i'm not going to get into all of this personal stuff. >> so april, i want to bring you in on this because people are commenting on how well reince handled himself in that interview. if you notice, he did not hit back against scaramucci despite his interview with the new yorker that david and i were talking about. doesn't that epitomize why he may be out at the white house, because president trump wants a fighter and epitomize why scaramucci is still in and reince is still out? >>, you know. >> i'm sorry. i thought you called april. >> i did. go ahead, april. >> okay. i believe that reince did slap back. i believe reince did slap back at scaramucci because he said, you know, he's going to be professional and that was a slap because he basically said scaramucci had not been professional in the way he's

been handling this, telling the family business publicly via twitter, via the interview where he used profane language, you know. reince did slap back in a very subtle way, but a poignant way at the same time, but the next question is what's next? you know, what's next for reince and then what's next for this administration? reince kept taing abt this reset button that this white house is looking at i think about mitt romney with the etch-a-sketch moment, the other republican who tried for the white house didn't win but this seems almost like that reset moment to me, you know? whose next? is it steve bannon? is it jeff sessions? is it general mcmaster? who is it? so could it be rex tillerson, we don't know. we want to see how far this reset goes but i believe that reince did slap back not only

for himself but maybe also even his friend sean spicer as well. >> it does raise a question as well how many more people can he afford to fire then you have to fill those positions. i want to just look over the turnover thus far in this administration, just a little bit more over six months in. you have national security advisor michael flynn, fbi director james comey, the former communications director press secretary sean spicer, now chief-of-staff reince priebus, deputy chief-of-staff katie walsh, deputy national security advisor, k.t. mcfarland, so what does this say to you, phil? >> i think you're painting the story, believe it or not, pam, to narrowly. the story is bigger than that. it's not just about relieving people of duty in the white house, it's about the administration and the executive branch of government, which typically follows the lead of the president, starting to say no. if you look for example, in the past couple of days you have the pentagon saying no on the new policy on transgenders. let's take you inside washington when the secretary of defense and the defense department says we're not implementing until we get implementing policy from the

white house, that's a no. you've had secretary of state tillerson behind the scenes, if you look at the language out of the united nations and the state department say no on sanctions on russia, the language has been pretty tough. from the director of national intelligence and the cia director, the language on russian meddling has been tough, the language out of the deputy attorney general on appointing a special counsel, robert mueller, has been we don't care what you ink the specl counsel is being appointed. the attorney general we ain't reopening the hillary clinton case. we keep talking about the white house in this mini drama soap opera in the white house. and i as a former executive branch official am saying i've never seen this before. typically the congress says no and now it's the administration who theoretically works the president time after time saying six months in, no you're done. >> david, how do you think that's impacting the president and the decisions he's making? >> over the last couple of days, i see that, you know, the white house may be okay with the

results of the last couple of days, priebus's out, skarnl scaramucci is in. as april said, or maybe it was david who said that, the president likes a fighter. i think long-term this does not bode well for them on two levels. the president campaigned in part on this idea that maybe he wasn't a career politician but he was a ceo who would always hire the best and the smartest and the most prepared people. you show that graphic of all the people who have already been shown the door in the first six, seven month, that does not suggest that the president did a good job of hiring up based on whatever the agenda was that he wanted to follow. the second thing is i actually think -- i just want to touch on what april said, i'm not so sure that reince priebus did not miss an opportunity to sort of stick up for himself when he spoke to wolf blitzer today, because look, he's now going to have to transition and figure out his way. that was his one opportunity not to use foul language, obviously, not to betray the confidence of the president but show that he did have a little fight in him

and i'm not sure that he did that. the other day on bbc, anthony scaramucci said, look, where i come from, we don't stab people in the back, we stab people in the front and i think the lesson of this week is that reince priebus was not quite ready for the stab people in the front game. >> you brought up the fact of this whole game of whose in, whose out, sources are telling cnn that chief strategist steve bannon is staying put, at least for now. in your view, david, is this because he's more dangerous to the administration outside of the white house? >> i think if bannon were to go it would be a major threat to president trump's base. but i agree with what phil was saying. this is -- there are different elements of the federal government that are saying no to the president and the biggest no was on capitol hill last night. republicans in congress are not taking risk for this president. he is not motivating them to back his bills. this was a colossal failure on health care so john kelly's

coming in as the new chief-of-staff, he has virtually no political experience. this is not going to help the president. one small step is having a more orderly white house but how does it help him work on the hill his legislation, his whole agenda of legislatively has stalled. and i agree with phil. more and more pushback. this tough guy image, it's not working. people in washington whether they are government servants or members of congress are not afraid of this president. that's why they're pushing back. >> and the question is what is his new chief of staff going to do differently that he wasn't happy with reince priebus? we're going to talk about all of this in the next break so stay with eme, everyone. when we come back this huge shake-up concluding an entire week of chaos. can general kelly bring calm to the white house or is more confusion ahead? we'll discuss. ink your lips in liquid matte intensity new super stay matte ink lip color from maybelline new york.

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i'm pamela brown in for don lemon and this has been a week of chaos for president trump. so much is happened you made need a refresher. so let's go through it here. let's go back to monday, the president begins his day attacking his own attorney general jeff sessions, tweeting that sessions is beleaguered. that night president trump says this -- >> who the hell wants to speak about politics when i'm in front of the boy scouts, right? >> so then he proceeds to talk

about politics and his election win and then tuesday, president trump bashes the attorney general again on twitter and rounds out the day saying he's more presidential than any other president except abraham lincoln. wednesday the president drops a bomb tweeting that he wants to roll back the clock and ban transgender troops. that night, new communications director thoib anthony scaramucci implies in a tweet that reince priebus is behind leaks and says he'll contact the fbi and justice department. thursday, republicans warn the president not to fire ag sessions. senator lindsey graham vowing there will be, quote, holy hell to pay. ryan lizza posts anthony scaramucci's profane on the record attacks on priebus, setting off an absolute firestorm. also thursday, cnn reports that national security advisor h.r. mcmaster is at odds with the president. and that brings us to the early morning hours today.

senator susan collin, lisa murkowski and john mccain sink the gop's obamacare repeal bill, and the white house spins into chaos again as the president accepts the resignation of reince priebus, naming general john kelly his new chief of staff. ooh, that was just in a week. back with our panel to discuss. so much to go over here. april, is there anything typical about this week in washington? >> not at all. not at all. i've been doing this for 20 years and it feels like it's been 20 years just in seven monthsalmosteven months. but what's really interesting about this, it makes you wonder, is this what the president -- when he was a businessman, how he handled his business? is this how he ruled his empire? how he's ruled his empire is how he's ruling or governing this

country, and it's chaotic. what we know for sure is there was no cohesion within his staff. what we know is what we see. if he's giving this to us, this is just a glimpse of what is inside that white house. we would hear dribs and drabs. some people say leakers, other people say whistle-blowers. there was not cohesion within the staff and now with the shake-up of the chief-of-staff, we wonder, if general mcmaster can, one, with stand the chaos as he is a general that believes in control and controlling situations, two, you know, we know this president would look to general kelly -- general kelly on other issues, not just on homeland security or what have you. he's bringing general kelly in to be chief-of-staff and it makes you wonder if he's upset with mcmaster, the national security council advisor, if he

would be talking with general kelly about issues like mcmaster would give. i believe kelly would be bringing a whole new dynamic to the table as chief-of-staff to bring order as well as more information, intelligence that's needed or the president wants from another voice. >> and given his background, do you think former secretary john kelly retired four-star general will bring order to this white house? >> no. that's a simple answer. >> okay. >> let's step through th. >> that sums it up. >> let's look at a couple basic characteristics here. let's look at generals who have served in this lengthy period of a presidency that goes six to seven months. general flynn, gone within weeks. general mcmaster side lined. general mattis, not even consulted as far as we could tell here in washington on a significant policy on transgenders and then we sit here pollyanna, another general is going to change the way this world operates, ain't going to

happen. second and final issue, pam, if you want to control the white house as the chief-of-staff, if you walk into a restaurant and say whose the manager, because i want to complain and somebody says well the manager's here, but the owners brother's the bartender. the owner's sister is the head waitress, the owner's son is the chief chef here nobody's running that kitchen. if you walk in the white house, and say well, the owner's son-in-law has direct access to the white house as does his daughter. steve bannon has direct access to the white house. other people including anthony scaramucci has direct access. edon't care whether the general is a great leader, if you have that many people with direct access to the white house, he can't run the railroad just like you can't run a restaurant. >> and then the backdrop of all of this is that the president -- >> the point is to rein them in. >> can you? i think that is the question here. >> no. >> he ultimately sets the tone with his tweets, as we have seen this week, with him, you know, talking about jeff sessions and with the transgender in the

military policy. >> but typically -- >> go ahead -- >> if there's a model that works, you had someone like jim baker for president reagan who president reagan saw as a peer or equal, that was one model. you have the sort of andy carr george w. bush model. like the uppermost person among the loyal foot soldiers. you have the denis mcdonough-barack obama model which is like the silent enforcer model. what is the model? even though general kelly brings he brings experience, what model is going to work between him not a political animal and president trump who is unlike any president we've ever seen? >> go april. >> had a you have to remember is the chief-of-staff is in charge or in control of day-to-day operations. everyone is supposed to fall in line under him. right now, scaramucci answers to the president. we'll see how that dynamic because general kelly and

scaramucci, i wonder how that will work and play. two strong persons. one strong military, the other very strong new yorkish. but then who says he doesn't mind stabbing you in the front. but at the same time you have to remember, with all of these chiefs of staff, they are over top of the director of they bring them together, national security, domestic policy, senior advisors, when those people have skirmishes, he talks to them and works with them. if they're working on policies and they're marking on things, he deals with that before it goes to the president so what this could be is to stop all the confusion, the backbiting and the tattling, i don't like this mr. president and letting the president be like daddy of sorts over top of the children watching the day care instead letting the general, general kelly deal with it as typical chiefs of staff for many years have done. >> as typical chiefs of staff, but this no sort of typical set up in the white house given what

phil mudd was pointing out. all these people reporting directly to the president. i was listening to leon panetta who was on cnn earlier, former chief of staff, who said the only way that this can work, that it can be a successful strong white house is if the chief of staff can walk into the oval office and really speak his mind and be courageous enough to disagree with the president, share his opinions. do you see that happening here? >> i don't. and the one criticism i hear is general mattis will speak truth to power. kelly is seen more of a political general. but i go back this, don't always agree with phil, but i certainly do tonight. it's the president himself. the president is tweeting things without telling his staff, he is publicly humiliating jeff sessions to try to force him to quit. you don't treat people that way. everyone knows that and he didn't and i love april, he didn't run an empire. he ran a very small real estate development firm that struggled and he had a thousand employees total.

there's many much larger organizations in the united states, businesses and it was a private company. >> you're absolutely right but he is branded his name. he's branded this company into the highest office in the land. so i understand what you're saying, but he is not only a business mogul, he is also an entertainment personality, he is branded in all of the ball cap, snowballing upward to the highest office in the land. >> we shouldn't say he's so great as running this great business organization and frankly -- he is not doing a good job running the united states government at all. >> i didn't say he was great. >> he's a good salesman. >> so far the results aren't there. so far the results are not there. >> so much to discuss. when we come back we'll hear more from reince priebus and his first interview since resigning and i'll speak to a friend and former colleague of his and get his take on how priebus was treated. we'll be back. hi. i'm the one clocking in...

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twitter, of course. and priebus was already off of the plane on the tarmac climbing into a secret service van as we see in the video here. ashleigh parker, a "washington post" reporter tweeted what happened next. calling it a sad final call into when air force one touched down at andrew air force base, reince priebus, steven miller and social media dan scavino all loaded into a suburban. but moment later they hopped out of this vehicle and as word trickled out singed close who snap photos of priebus, who sat alone on the rain-soaked tarmac. priebus's vehicle then pulled out of the presidential motorcade which proceeded along to the white house without him. i want to bring in mike shields. he knows reince priebus personally. having served as his chief of staff at the rnc. also with me presidential historian alan lichtman. let's listen more to what priebus told wolf blitzer

tonight and i'll talk to you on the other side. >> what was the impact, the new white house communications director anthony scaramucci? you saw the interview he granted ryan lizza in the "new yorker" magazine. he called you some awful things, including a paranoid schizophrenic. he said your days were numbered. he said you were about to leave. at one point he said priebus, reince priebus would resign soon, and that he expected priebus to launch a campaign against him. what was your reaction when you saw that interview? >> no reaction because i'm not going to respond to it, i'm not going to get into the mud. look, the president and i had an understanding. we've talked about this many times and we ultimately decided that yesterday was a good day and that we would work together and i think that general kelly's a great pick. i'm not going to get into the weeds on that. i support what the president did and obviously i think it's a good thing for the white house.

>> but why were you opposed to anthony scaramucci even getting a job in the white house? you saw how bitter, how bitter he was, how angry he was at you in that interview? >> i'm not getting into that, wolf. it's over. i'm moving on. support the president and i support john kelly and the president's agenda. that's all you're going to get from me on that. i'm not going to get into the individual personal stuff. >> he was also very angry at steve bannon, the white house chief strategist. i can't even read the words he utter to ryan lizza about steve bannon. but you think he could stay in the white house with scaramucci now the communications director? >> that's going to be up to john kelly but i will say that steve's doing a great job. he is a brilliant guy, who only cares about the president's agenda. he thinks about it 24 hours a day, never quits. he's a great asset to this

president and so and a dear friend. my hat's off to steve bannon. >> can you just clear up the other charge? it was a very bitter charge that scaramucci leveled against you that you're a leaker and that you're really not that loyal to the president. you've got your own agenda. he makes a bitter accusations against you, specifically the leaking. are you the leaker in the white house? >> that's ridiculous, wolf, come on. give me a break. i'm not going to get into his -- >> why not? why not respond to his -- >> because i'm not going to because it doesn't honor the president. i'm going to honor the president every day. i'm going to honor his agenda and i'm going to honor our country. i'm not going to get into all of this personal stuff, so -- >> is there a leaking problem in the white house based on what you've seen? >> yeah, i think that general kelly should see if he can get to the bottom of it and figure it out. obviously unnamed sources are something that's been problematic and i wish him well and i'm going to try to help him, obviously that's going to be on his plate and i hope he

can get to the bottom of it. >> scaramucci suggesting the fbi should get involved in that investigation. you agree with him on that? >> i'm not going to respond to that. this is about the president, wolf. i've answered your questions. i support his decision to hire john kelly and i'm looking forward to the future. >> so there you heard it. mike, i want to start with you, you know reince priebus, you were his chief-of-staff. what do you want to say tonight about how this went down and how he was treated? >> first of all, i'm really proud of reince not only in the way he's conducted himself through all of this but the way that he's handled everything that he's done since he became chairman of the rnc. politics ain't beanbag and reince knew that the president likes to have a team of rivals that comes in and argues over policy in front of him and throws elbow, and reince was up for that and served the president incredibly loyally, and will continue to serve the president incredibly loyally. reince came in and he basically

redefined what the modern political party does at the rnc. and not enough credit is given to reince for what he was able to do after 2012 to build the rnc into a machine that could work with president trump to get him elected, then he was the chief-of-staff all through the transition working alongside the president to build out a superb cabinet and to put everything in place and as he leaves the white house, we have more americans that are working now than any time in history, home sales are at a huge high, the stock markets added $4 trillion of wealth for people's retirement funds. i'm very proud of reince and very proud of the way he's conducted himself and i think that he's been loyal to the president. he'll continue to be loyal to the president of the united states. >> all right, alan, i want to go to you. he was at the white house 189 days as chief of staff. this is the shortest in modern presidential history. what does that say about this administration? what do you make of that? >> it says a lot about this administration. look, in my book the case for impeachment, i do some comparisons between trump and

richard nixon and what's going on here is very nixonian. if you study the nixon tapes, you see they almost never talk about the substance of the policies that are good for the country. it's all about whose got the power, whose in, whose out, whose feuding with whom and that's exactly what you see in what's going on right now in the white house. secondly, history teaches us that you can't save a failing or flailing presidency by an administrative shake-up. shaking up his administration didn't help jimmy carter way back in 1979. what really matters is the guy at the top, his values, his leadership and his policies. for example, the health care bill failed. not because of chaos at the white house, but because it was a highly deficient legislation in all its forms opposed by virtually every stakeholder from the patients to the insurance companies to the hospitals to the doctors and to the american people. finally, this team of rivals, something that's derived from

nixon. you don't fight out the team of rivals in public by demeaning and defaming your cabinet and your staff. i would give some advice to president trump to the new chief-of-staff and to mr. scaramucci from abraham lincoln himself and i'm paraphrasing. abraham lincoln said, if i paid attention much less tried to answer all of the criticisms that come into this office and that are directed against me, i might as well close down this shop and stop doing any other business. you just got to ignore that stuff. >> hum. easier said than done, but i want to talk about the new chief of staff, john kelly. he was a marine, he served in the military for nearly five decades. he's entering a very top heavy west wing. there are at least 23 assistants to the president, the highest

ranking title ivanka trump, jared kushner, steve bannon and anthony scaramucci. they all report directly to the president. kellyanne conway and dan hicks also have direct lines of communication to the president. so my question to you, mike, is how can kelly effectively serve as chief-of-staff if so many people have a direct line to the president? >> look, i mean, it's interesting being on with a historians, all these comparisons being made. i think trump is unique. i think his management style is unique. it served him very well. you have a strong leader coming in with general kelly. i think he's going to be a superb chief-of-staff. working as a team, there's lots of different ways to operate a team and there are flat structures and all kinds of organizations that function correctly. you always have to have a chief-of-staff. you have to have a leader who spends a lot of time with the president helping him make decisions and helping direct that team and that's what general kelly's job is going to be. he has a tremendous background in leadership. he's stepping in at a time where

as reince said, the president wants to go in a little bit of a different direction and the a reset, and i think he's going to do a great job. >> okay, mike, allan, thank you so much for coming on. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, two men newly appointed to top positions in the white house, will there be a power struggle or can they work together? i'll speak to friends of theirs to find out. we'll be back. what's going on here? um...i'm babysitting. that'll be $50 bucks. you said $30. yeah, well it was $30 before my fees, like the pizza-ordering fee and the dog-sitting fee... and the rummage through your closet fee. who is she, verizon? are those my heels? yeah! yeah, we're the same size...in shoes. with t-mobile taxes and fees are already included, so you get four lines of unlimited for just $40 bucks each. the price we say is the price you pay. which saves money. insurance a smarter way. they offer paperless billing and automatic payments.

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a week ago anthony scaramucci brought his swagger to the white house and within one week his foe reince priebus is out and general john kelly take over as chief of staff. so how will they match up? that is the big question tonight. my next two guests know these power players all too well. major james "spider" marks and william cohand of why wall street matters. general marks, i want to start with you, you know john kelly well, you served with him in iraq. what do you think is the first thing he will do on monday as the white house chief of staff? >> well, john kelly's a man in

full. his life experiences are quite magnificent. he is a bespoke leader, very measured, very focused. i would suggest the first thing he does when he gets in there on monday morning is he gathers two people together. he gets ivanka trump and her husband jared and he brings them in and he says look, i'm going to need your help with your dad. and there are certain things i'd love to be able to route toonly share with you, because let's be frank, even as the chief of staff, he is going to make it very clear that everybody is going the need to come through him in order to be an effective chief and to ensure effective communications and alignment of policy, priorities and communications and the subordinate efforts that need to take place to meet those policy priorities. but there will be exceptions. and the president's daughter, his son-in-law, maybe even steve bannon, there will be exceptions to that rule that everybody needs to come through the chief, and i think he should talk to those two, i need some help to

make sure that if someone is going to do an end run around me as the chief, at least the first place you stop when you come out of that office is my office or at least invite me in subsequently so i can at least be a part of this discussion because i as the chief is the one with whose going to lay on all the resources to make this policy or this decision or this idea a reality. >> and someone else who has a direct line to the president is of course anthony scaramucci. william, i have to ask you your reaction first off to his pugnacious and profane really behavior this week, particularly with that interview with the "the new yorker"? >> well, pamela, what can you say? it's indefensible. it's inappropriate. it's inarticulate. it's not who i thought anthony scaramucci was. i don't think it's who he is. i think he was on a mission this week and he succeeded in that mission today by getting reince priebus fired.

don't forget reince priebus, was the guy who blocked anthony's ability to get the job he wanted in the white house for the past six plus months and so i think this was payback. i think this was warfare. he accomplished his mission but i think that's obviously an indefensible series of statements that he made and i'm sure he regrets it except that it got to the place that i think he and the president wanted to get to, which was that reince priebus left. >> so just for context here, how do you know him and why do you say that this is unlike him? >> i've known anthony seven years or so from wall street days. i wrote a book about goldman sachs called "money and power." and anthony worked at goldman sachs. he shared with me a great anecdote that i used in my book

gave him credit for that. and we got to know each other as a result of that. he invited me to the salt conference out in las vegas, a big hedge fund conference where i acted as interviewer of people like oliver stone and michael lewis and magic johnson. we've had beers and talked to each other. we shared our thoughts. obviously, my political views are very different than his. one thing i liked about anthony, he says we did disagree without being disagreeable. >> i want to go to you on general marks about the question of kelly's role in this job. and whether he can handle it. obviously he's had a lot of experience in the military, he's been the secretary of dhs now for little over six months but there are already people coming out saying that he doesn't have the political experience to do this job. what do you have to say to that? >> john kelly's going to be able to do this job exceptionally well and certainly there will be limitations. i'm not pollyannaish to assume that he's going to waltz in and everything will be perfectly fine simply because he arrived.

john kelly's got a very tough mission ahead of him and he'll embrace it, but when you look at his body of work during his career, i mean he's been inside the pentagon, he's been in this town, he was the legislative liaison lead for the marine corps also and all general officers during their period in service will go to the hill on a number of occasions and they'll testify and so these existing relationships will be to his great -- relationships with those in congress will be to his great advantage and certainly his knowledge of the staffers both personal and professional staffers that are on the hill. this will work very, very well and john will tap into that. >> um-hum. >> but the key is, it is the strength of his character that he brings to the table and the veracity of the positions that he'll -- that he will embrace for this president, that's what's going to win the day. it's not being bombastic or pugilist, it's been able to step up and have your position win the day.

>> just quickly, william, considering the dynamic, chief of staff, the typical way it happens is people in the white house, staffers are supposed to go through the chief-of-staff to get through the president as the major general was saying, but when you have people like scaramucci whose really come in and asserted himself, he has a direct line to the president, did you see him sort of take it a step back in letting the new chief of staff come in and take charge? how do you see this dynamic playing out? >> i'd like to think it will work as smoothly as the major general outlines it. i have a feeling this white house is defined by chaos, thrives on chaos, that's what the president of the united states wants. he likes chaos. he likes people going at each other. i will say this for anthony. he's got a lot of respect for the military. he's proven that again and again through the people he invites to the salt conference. i think his mission was to search and destroy reince priebus. he succeeded in that and i think

he's going to give john kelly a chance and he's going to be respectful and i think you'll see anthony scaramucci begin to take a lower profile as john kelly steps up here and takes the role of chief of staff. >> all right. william cohan and general marks, thank you for that perspective. >> you bet. >> thank you. >> when we come back, washington is on edge from the big shake-up but what do people across the country think of this. we have two radio hosts from the right and left, what they're hearing over the airwaves. >> hey, everybody. i'm anthony scaramucci. the mooch. i'm a front stabber. i'm here to fire everybody. be nice to me. okay? a little bit. be a little bit nice to me, okay? i'm somebody's little boy. and the mooch says he was doing this for all the right reasons. i'm not trying to build my own brand off the [ bleep ] strength of the president, i'm here to serve the country and added, i'm not steve bannon, i'm not trying

to suck my own [ bleep ]. i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.

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reince priebus out, tonight as white house chief of staff. but could this be part of a

biggest west wing shake up. thank you both gentlemen for coming on late this friday evening. john, i'll start with you. do you think anthony scaramucci is behind the ousting of reince priebus a week after coming on board? >> it really didn't do anything to help it but i got to get to the interview with the new yorker which i thought was beyond the scope of human decency. at some point all of us that are trump supporters have to draw a line in the sand that you simply have to have some common sense and element of the core. scaramucci took the tithe of communication director. he is the spokes leader of the free world and to do those interviews and through the f bombs around and what he said about reince priebus, steve

bannon and god no what else, it doesn't matter what you think of any of these people. there has to be a level of maturity in this white house staff for them to get anything done. and that was just an episode that is beyond anything normal. and, until people say, look weave had enough. we need some adults in the room and this none sense has got to to be which is distracting from the agenda and the message of the president. i thought that interview on the record with a new yorker was one of the most despicable thing i've witnessed in my entire journalism career and he should apologize for that. and get the job of the president's agenda moving and stop this insane end fighting which is all about their own egos. >> okay on that note which is a perfect way to talk about the chief of staff.

general kelly in your view do you think he talked about the able to be able to -- or is he taking on an impossible task. >> well, first i have to say is john's -- is detected at the wrong person. despite what scaramucci sales, he's a scum back, a make oil salesman. the president was the president of the united states gave him that job in the first place and the president of the united states had 24 hours to condemn those remarks, to say that's not dem tied that's not worthy of the white house. he did not. he said nothing. in fact what he did was carry out what scar much wanted and that was to fire reince priebus. let's put the blame where it belongs, it belongs to donald trump. he's got an impossible job, and you know why, because pamela you pointed out so far tonight already, he's not in charge.

jared kushner, ivanka trump, steve bannon and now anthony scaramucci now reports directly to the president not to the chief of staff. he's undermined the same way reince priebus will have been undermined. so the problem with the white house, it is a white house and free fall, the problem is not with the staff, the problem is with the guy at the top. that's the loose cannon and so long donald trump is there with his tweeting, bullying, and announcing policying without telling his cabinet members nothing is going to chang. >> and he had this event in long island today where he delivered speeches to public officers and intended to endorse police brutal. take a look at what he said. >> when you see these towns and thugs being thrown into the back of the patty wag go, you see them thrown in rough, ebs please

don't be too nice. like whether you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know the way you put your hand, like don't hit their head and they just killed somebody, don't hit their head. i say you can take the hand away, okay. >> john, is this president promoting more violence by police? >> no, that's a ridiculous assertion pamela. i appreciate the question, but look, the president does these things. he says he's things there's a lot of rhetoric that goes in but at the public convention in cleveland he said on the war and order candidate. i will be a law and order president, he's simply trying to enact the policies that he promised he's going to do. >> but there's a difference between the candidate besides saying rock them up and so forth. >> he didn't say anything of the world. he was making a contractor at a

specific audience he has. detroit ex strap late this and say somehow the president is insighting police brutality. is really pamela beyond -- >> well there is -- on this. so this is what they said. the southern county police department tweeted after this, the fd pd has strict rules and procedures relating to the handling of prisoners. violation of those rules are treated seriously. as a department we will not tolerate roughing up of prisoners. so bill, i think i know what you're going to say. >> the president wen too far. and the police realized this was not their policy there was not appropriate this was way over the line. i'd like to point out. in this week the president was scolded by the boy's scouts of america for some of language he used and some of the things he said at a boys' scout gem brie

and now today the president is scolded on the sufficient fogs police department for encouraging police brutality. i think it's sad, despicable and shameful and john, you of all people should say this is not worthy of the president of the united states. >> john, these are esteemed nonpartisan group what's your reaction to this? >> the president had a speech and a rally -- >> what was a rally. >> it was one of his speeches, where he was talking about law and order. and you know what, again, instead of talking about the substance of the president's address today, and the magnificent progress he's made with gangs, like ms-13 and other things that he's getting don here we are talking about -- here taking one thing he said and extrapolating it into

something that it had nothing to do with which cake away -- >> hey john. >> all right you guys have delivered a -- for tonight i appreciate it. thank you so much. good night to you both. i'm pamela brown in for don lemon. thank you so much for watching. have a good night.

♪ they know when it hits the bottom that it be 1990, good-bye to the '80s. >> ten, nine, eight, eight, eight, eight. >> oh will this horrible year

never end. >> when the '90s began we started seeing a lot of experiment tags. and the simpson's i think in some senses was inspired by not necessarily hatred of television but distrust along the ways with the way television talks to us. >> t.v. respects me. it laughs with me not at me. >> i think the sitcoms of the '80s. >> i love you guys. >> were such a set of harm humor. >> you see, the kids they listen to the rap music which gives them the brain damage. >> and i think there was a real yearning for another type of humor. ♪ >> we were able to spoof fatherhood. >> what a bad father. >> which, at the time, i stress,

at the time was bill cosby as the shining example. ♪ >> stuff that got away with because it's a cartoon. the father strangling the child. >> why you little -- >> we are going to keep on trying to strengthen the american family to make american families a lot more like the waltons and a lot less like the simpsons. >> huh? >> we go through a completely bizarre period of time in 1992 when a sitting president is raging against a sitcom. >> the politics the popular culture all kinds of issues of racism, of sexism. >> don't ask me i'm just a girl. >> right on, say it sister. >> it's not funny bart, millions of girls will grow up thinking this is the right way to act.

>> they have found a way to talk about everything that's going on in our lives through the culture of the simpsons. >> the immigrants want all the before the of living in springfield and they didn't bother themselves to learn the language. >> yeah, those are exactly sent moan anies. >> i think what's happening with the simpsons is a distrust of anyone who tells us we should trust them and doesn't eastern that trust. >> i'll take that statute of justice too. >> sold. >> and when they make fun of how fox works. >> you are watching fox. >> we are watching fox. >> they're telling us don't trust us either. >> eat my shorts. >> the some sons is like shakespeare in the sense that we quote the simpsons all the time without knowing it. >> excellent. >> i wish i could create

something that curly in -- it's like something -- >> twin peaks showed up out of nowhere at the beginning of the decade. it was one of the strangest and most exciting thing i've seen. >> another "twin peaks" with the counting war of the body -- >> it was incredible. i mean, just how slowly in the beginning the news spread around this little town that this young beautiful girl had died. and that haunting music was so dark and so beautiful. ♪ >> that -- he's dying too. --

>> what on earth is essentially a art film doing in prime time television. >> american network television has long been considered the home of the blands, the cautious and predictable. so it was with some trepidation that the abc network launched a new series that was none of those things. "twin peaks" has been described by a -- it was directed by david lynch. >> david lynch was a fill immaker that was inspired by -- the idea he'd do television in the '90s was crazy. >> you watch much of it? >> well, i like the idea of television but i'm too busy to see any of it. >> what do you think of that that you see on television? >> some of that i really enjoy. >> are you being diplomatic?

>> sort of. >> the beautiful thing about television is you have the chance to do a continuing story, and that's the main reason, you know for doing it. i think that "twin peaks kwtsz with the initial attention that it got allowed all the other networks to say, let's do something different. >> the day's come requesting it ain't going to be long when you don't have to leave your living room. no more schools, bodegas, tabernacles. you're going to snuggle up to your fiberoptics baby and blitz out. >> you can see the creators trying to see how they can do something different than they did 20 years ago. sometimes it led to television fun to watch and sometimes it seemed to fall off the edge a little bit. ♪ >> at the time steven box goes was a very successful producer

of our dramas and wanted to try something brand new. >> this is the police we have a warrant for your arrest. >> and so his idea was to combine a gritty cop show with a broadway musical. i saw one which a bunch of gang bangers were in jail and they began to sing. life in the hood ain't no pizza pie, everybody die when the lul bullets fly. >> and i said wait a minute. >> i thought well, this is it, this is going to be great. this is going to be as innovative of anything i've ever done. ♪ >> i mean it just -- it circled and drained.

i'm creatively proud of it still. i'm very glad we tried it. i don't think i'd want to do it again. >> i do think we're susceptible. >> if you have that kind of brain you can go dark real fast. >> if you're a comedian there's a once upon a time a girl with golden locks broke into a house owned by three bears. she ate some porridge, broke the baby bear's chair, and stole some jewelry, a flat-screen tv, and a laptop. luckily the geico insurance agency had helped the bears with homeowners insurance. they were able to replace all their items...

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the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there. i can even warm these to help you fall asleep faster. does your bed do that? oh. i don't actually talk. though i'm smart enough to. i'm the new sleep number 360 smart bed. let's meet at a sleep number store. the following movie is rated r. >> in 1990, '91 there was not a whole lot of original programming for cable but they were airing movies.

so, we needed to compete. i felt that if we didn't, we were going to, you know, kind of get swept out. >> son of a -- >> and so i came up with the notion of doing a cop show that was r rated. when abc's broadcast standards read our script they went berserk. >> i was sitting with a pad and a pencil drawing pictures of breasts to try to show them what we would and wouldn't show. grown ups, doodling. >> then we started on the language. >> we heard some reporter called the low life ass hole with the brains of a fleet. >> the program premiered with an advertising boycott. >> it was such an immediate hit that boycott lasted four weeks. they could use the nudity and

the curse words to go deeper into the emotional burden of being a cop. >> i'm an as hole. >> and it had this character eddy, he's a raging alcoholic, racist, sexist violent. he created the anti-hero. >> i know the great the great african-american judgeorge washington carver -- >> you know you're aray cyst scum back. >> despite his cause and prejudices i think people identified with his pain. >> i wish there was something i could say this that wouldn't her you. >> there's an investigation when they're investigating the rape of a young boy. and they had a homeless molester who molested the young kid.

>> i know this is got to be tearing you up inside but you're going to feel a lot better if you tell the truth. >> you can see how dennis's face is killing him to not like destroy this guy right now. finally he gets a confession, an assigned statement. he walks out of a room and goes into another interration room and breaks the door with liz fist. and i'm choking up talking about it right now. that's how great a moment of t.v. that it is. >> 20 years from now the best t.v. drama what do they look like? >> i don't know. >> will they be bolder than what we see today? >> oh assureddy. >> the '90s dave us several shows that didn't explode in the ratings. "homicide" is run of them. ♪ >> "homicide" live on the street

was -- by it's style. it used music in ways that vanced the narrative and used teacher/film directives that brought a style to the show. >> tears coming out of your eyes. >> they had so many african-american characters in the cast that on several occasions, they were the only people on camera interacting with one other and that sounds like, so. but as late as the '90s that wouldn't done on television. >> when a cop shoots somebody he stands by. he picks up a radio mic and calls it in and stand by the body. if not, copes are no better than anybody else. >> in the '90s, television shows were getting more complicated. >> this was a show that completely delivered on its formula every time. you'd get a crime.

>> all right let's roll. >> you got the investigation into the crime. >> you better be packing war than a dirty mouth. >> you got an arrest. >> i'm asking you a question what's the charge. >> there's no charge thrks one's on us. >> then you had a trial. >> sit down and shut up. >> overruled and you will address the court from now on mr. mccoy. every time you watched you got what you came from. >> tell me c all the women you ran through the examination rooms, do you remember their faces or did you not bother to look up. >> you had in "law and order" the kind of character people take to heart. and if you're an actor and you say, well, gee, you know maybe it's not really such a bad medium after all. >> the supreme court's decision, the whole things are legally obtained they were both republicaned by counsel. >> you get hooked in.

>> we know what you did. >> can you hear me? >> yoern do you have any control. >> "law and order" was just like crack. you got to sit and watch me for 15 minutes, just like, not moving, barely breathing. there are times i've almost passed out watching "law and order." >> you got to get over here i need your help. >> the -- had been originally written as a movie for steven spielberg to direct. we had this two hour piece which was a redirection of michael's experience as a medical student. >> you need to trans fuse him, do you know how to star an rv? >> actually no. >> er is a hospital show but it's really an action movie. >> yellow, urge, red critical.

>> got it. >> a body comes in, people shouting instructions, climbing up on the body doing cpr and their racing off to the surgical sweet. they don't stop to explain what it is, prep for -- i think i no e what that is now but only because i watched a lot of "er" over the years. >> you can try but i don't think his heart will take it. >> bypass it and -- directly. >> what do you think? >> there was so much information coming at you. you had to stay involved in it the whole time. >> come on ben you can make it. >> hold on buddy. hold on. >> there was a lot of research that said people didn't want to watch anybody have anything other than a happy outcome. >> it's five refib, another seven -- >> and we argued that that wouldn't really showing what the world was for physicians.

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can you sing the theme song from "cheers"? >> cheers how does it start. ♪ >> go ahead and sing it it's cute. ♪ >> we decided to end "cheers" in the 11th year. over 93 million people watched the finale of "cheers". it's a sad experience for everybody. this was our baby for 11 years and we're not going to be around these people every day. >> you people are as deer to me as my own family. >> it was time for everybody to sit.

in fact was sipping along with them. >> time goes by so fast. people move in and out of your life. you must never miss an opportunity to tell these people how much they mean to you. >> we had been through so much together. you spend enough time to the same set of people it does become your family. >> i'm lucky to have the friends i do. >> i think the lelgsy of "cheers" is our need to belong. i think that's what we as americans are longing for. >> thank you guys. >> the final scene of "cheers" was really what was sam's real first love. >> you can never be unfaithful to your one true love. >> i'm the luckiest son of a bitch on earth. >> as roofer -- the bar. >> sorry, we're closed.

>> how big a loss is this for nbc anyway? >> well i'm still here and i'm waiting for the cast members to come back so i'd say it's a pretty big loss. >> out of the sad sad sorrow and being scared to death that i would very quickly lose my job, i said what are we going to do. >> t.v. is changing dramatically now with 150 channels that might be available in the near future. >> there are many choices than ever before and it's a tough job. you have to try and get a sense of what is the audience going to make an attachment too. >> in the '90s cable was coming on strong. so we had to examine, who are we going to be. well, we wanted to be smart, sophisticated comedy. >> six months ago i was living in boston, my wife had left me, which was career painful, then she came back to me which was

excruciating. >> well, you know i thought frazier was dead with "cheers. ". >> we thought we built an audience with great potential for building up the audience in a better place. ♪ >> "frazier" was kind of like one-act plays. >> mother and i moved here when i was a small boy after the tragic death of my father. i kept the pain of that loss buried deep within my leike a ser serpent coiled within a darch cave. okay that's it. >> we always assumed the audiencive smarter and we played to that. >> she's just unschooled. she'll be ready for a ball in no time. >> kelsey grammar played pomposity like nobody had ever

seen and got huge laughs. >> something said not to move until my finger has clearly played the piece. >> what's taking so long? >> i'd like to train the strategy like a general leading his troops into battle. >> check mate. >> i think "frazier" probably stands as the single most successful spin offs at least in the history of sitcoms. >> and the emmy goes to. >>" frazier." >> "frazier." >> five million americans watched thursday night. that was at the time 1/3 of the country. >> oh, what is this stuff? >> the sweater it's angora. >> well, it's wonderful. >> the machine that was nbc in the '90s for comedy was untouchable. >> you're not from around here

are you if. >> it generated so much viewership and money and awards. >> you do not need this. >> it's the top of our wedding cake. >> it's not a scrapbook it's a freezer. >> no. >> we accredit it had '90 with have been successful sitcoms but they western the only network. >> "tgif" was on fridays. >> i can't take it, i need that cake. >> it was not sophisticated television but these were shows that people adored. >> cbs, cbs was in a real bad spot. they had fallen apart over the early '90s and gone through different executives.

>> but then suddenly they had this hit with an unknown comic. this was the year of "seinfeld". there was hugging, learning. >> i love you son. >> lot. >> if you worked for me your job was to go home get in a fight with your wife and come back and tell me about it. >> don't sleep on the couch. i just cleaned down there. >> in fact, the pilot, i put in this true thing that happened to me, wherein i sent my parents a gift for the holidays of the fruit of the month club. >> did you know you sent me a box of pairs. >> yeah. >> from a place called fruit of the month? >> yeah. how are they. >> and my mother reacted as if i had sent her a box of heads from a murderer. >> why do you do this for me.

>> oh god. >> it's too much fruit in the house. >> what is happening. >> what do you think we are inzero lents. we can't go out and get our own fruit? >> all right i'm cancelling the fruit club. >> the real story is where the real connection with your audience. >> thank you god, all your families are crazy too. >> looks like you got the whole family together. >> yeah it's dysfunctionpalooza. . the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late. or make me feel like i'm not really "there." talk to your doctor, and call 844-234-2424.

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a new era of technology and competition is forcing network news operations to rekalpana the way they do business. >> if you owners spent billions buying the networks, je buying cbs and all of them want their money's worth. >> well -- the strongest network, a stronger defense piece. this is going to be one dynamite company. >> there's a -- that news will be mixed up with the rest of television and considered just another profit. >> in the 20s to the early 1930s to 1980s we'll give some of the broadcasting time to public service.

in 1990s joan in the public changed a big deal. you couldn't talk about public service. well, sensationist themselves. >> in a plea bargain 18-year-old amy fisher got up to 18 years in prison temporary shooting the wife of her alleged lover. >> there are three made for t.v. movies. >> the press calls the case the beverly hills mansion murders and the stories read like one of the jurn sold scripts that circulate here in hollywood. >> we enter into the world of television news soap opera. >> the story of basic stingt -- instincted. >> so it loses it purity and it all comes together with o.j.

simpson. >> i've larry coloraarrol in lo angeles. the los angeles district county just filed charges against or rent that will james simpson. >> police believe that o.j. simpson is in that car. >> the story starts with the chase, goes on to the arrest and then the trial which goes on and on and on and televised day after day after day. >> this is going to be a long trial, there's a lot of evidence to come in. >> the o.j. simpson case was such a national phenomenon that those of us who are covering it lived this case 24 hours a day because there was such a demand. >> as simpson struggled to slide the gloves on to his hands and turn thwart jurors that say they're too small, prosecutors

were -- >> the trial was on television during hours that had been the time for soap operas. and o.j. was very much a soap opera. >> he's impeached by his -- >> i ask that you put a stop toyota. >> excuse me sir, stand up and speak when it's your turn. >> no question was the t.v. show of the hour was the simpson trial. >> the simpson trial now winding to a close. >> we the jury, in the aboved and entitled action find the defendant or rent that will j. simpson not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of penal code section a. >> the verdict of the o.j. trial fuelled by more than 100,000 people. >> because there was trial footage every day, cnn saw its

audience increase like five times. the success of cnn was not lost at other people, and so there were competing forces coming into play. >> as delighted as i am that reach this moment and can announce the starting of a fox news channel. >> unfortunately with capable news and the ability and need to be on the air 24/7, we're going to try to get a many eye balls at a time to gravitate towards the stories, it brought us the able to go too far. >> is the john bennet trial turning into a circus? >> here's where the fear comes into it i think larry. the fear that he said, gosh if we don't cover it big time our competition is and one they cover it big times there's going

to be a jump in the ratings. and if we want to survive we got to do it. >> we also see a whole army of commentators, people who make their business talking about the news. >> what i say is what we should do, is we should bomb his capability of producing oil. take out his refineries, his stations stations -- >> they don't have any capability for producing oil. >> well they're certainly selling a -- >> it's much cheaper to have someone in your studio than to have reporters out in the field reporting. >> i don't know if any of this is true, but what identify heard is that the father wen down, opened this basement room which is fbi has bypassed. >> every single sentence on cnn, perhaps on cnbc, on fox on msnbc begins with the words i think.

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in the mid-1990s if you took

a list of the 50 most watched shows on cable. the top will be nickelodeon, "rug rats," blue's clues," rent and stem pi, some surreal concept humor to it. this is the beginning of the splinerring television audience and the family audience because when there's only three or four t.v.s in the house you have a kid watching "nickelodeon" the dad watching sports, the mom watching lifetime. >> by the time of the '90s, mtv wouldn't only a music channel. they had shows incorporating

music. >> that was cool. >> certainly "beevis and butthead" established what mtv could be because the show was about people making fun of music videos, just like people in the audience were doing. >> woa, check out his neck, it's like all these bones and stitches. >> my manager would call me and be like hey, you got the big bufferin because you were on "beevis and butthead" at night. >> i sit there like a donut watching these guys. i find them endlessly entertaining because these guys are and always will be and cannot be anything but idiots. >> that's right. ♪ >> mtv has a detrimental damaging developmental effect on the sexuality, morality and

spiritual. >> you -- >> can i tell you something miss ellen? >> of course wendy. >> don't [ bleep ] with me. >> what? >> you heard me, stay away from my man bitch i'll whoop your -- all the way to next year. >> two of finest people i ever met and they're success story is proof that if you stay true to yourself, you don't have to do anything else. >> people think, oh you came and did this show and now you're big sellous. the truth is we were sell out to begin with. >> perhaps there is no stopping the corporate minnesota machine. >> we were sleeping at friends' houses, had no money. and one executive saw what we

made in college and he said make me a christmas video i can put on a card. and he gave us 700 bucks. >> i come seeking retribution. >> he's going to kill you because you're jewish kyle. >> oh [ bleep ]. >> it went around the t.v. community like wildfire. >> it was the funniest thing you've ever seen in your life. >> somebody showed me the short. >> go jesus. >> i thought it was hysterical so i called and said get them in here right away. >> oh my god, they killed kenny. >> you bastards. >> "south park" really really detest hypocrites. >> this is the republicans and that see's oh my. >> well okay i'll legalize the trimester of abortions for you.

>> could you imagine back then that these people would ever get on network television, or any kind of television? it's a miracle. "south park" is a miracle. >> the early '90s, the hbo shows start to come into their own. >> have i always had these breasts? >> young people want freedom, they don't want to go back to the networks which, say you can come to us you'll make more money but have content restricted. you can go to cable and have no restrictions, not make as much money but have freedom of expression. which almost everybody who wants in these mediums wants. some of the content truly was, you can't get this anywhere else. >> fantasy makers the only limits of the kinds of fancies

is people's imagination. >> hbo turned to people who have said, i can't do that on television but you can do it on hbo. >> white people don't >> white people don't trust black people. that's why they won't vote for no black president. like a black brother will [ bleep ] up the white house. like the grass won't be cut. dishes piled up. cousins running through the white house. cookouts. basketball going in the back. >> in the late '80s hbo was gaining ground for series. >> by the '90s hbo had started to begin its explosion. >> when we started doing "dream on" one of the things hbo said to us was, it's got to be something that couldn't be on network tv. ♪ that was shocking, even for us as writers who created it. oh, my god. really? >> what do you want, baby?

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you've watched letterman.

you've watched leno, but what about larry? larry sanders, that is. he's the tv alter ego of comedian garry shandling. >> garry shandling wanted to do a show that deconstructed the kind of show "the tonight show" was. >> pretend like you're talking to me until we're off the air so it won't seem weird. >> okay. blah, blah, blah, blah. >> the larry sanders show was kind of cathartic because in the world of the show there was a network. >> you want me to [ bleep ] your budget? that what you want me to do? >> it became this fun house mirror thing where you could use stuff from your misery, your career as fodder. >> don't take this as a threat but i killed a man like you in korea, hand-to-hand. my boy doesn't want to do any more commercials. >> larry sanders to me was, aside from being a brilliant television show. >> can you say, hey now? >> hey now. >> it was my everyday life. >> i'm here for three good reasons. last show. big ratings. movie coming out.

bim, bam, boom. >> "the larry sanders show" was very unique in that it was very deadpan. and really groundbreaking in its day. >> i think it made people really go, that's the level of work you may be able to do on a cable network. >> "oz" comes on in '97. it's set in this penitentiary. wow, what a strange show that was. >> in "oz" sometimes the things you can't touch the are more real than the thing us can. hatred, loneliness are more real to me than a shank and a soul. >> it was jaw-droppingly violent. it was a men's prison. it probably should be. but you know, it kind of announces the idea that hbo is

going to get serious about doing scripted dramas. >> it's finished. it's over. >> but hbo really in my mind comes to its own in 1999 with "the sopranos." ♪ ♪ woke up this morning ♪ got yourself a gun >> "sopranos" was one of the show that was like a benchmark. it changed a lot of things for everybody. >> throw out the handbook. tony soprano, the lead actor in a drama, he killed a man. we watched him. he took his daughter on a college tour. >> pretty, huh? >> yeah. >> it was just a melding of a guy and a world -- >> [ bleep ] you doing? >> and a behavior that promoted all the feelings that you would

have for a guy that you love in a guy that you hate. you know? >> "sopranos" came on tv and it really showed us the future whether we realized that was going to be the future of television or not. >> this husband of yours, carmella, how much we love him. he's the best. >> like a father to me. >> just make sure nothing happens to him. >> that character in that show was a great inspiration to a great many shows that came after it including one that i worked on. >> you know what i want, tony? i want those kids to have a father. >> they got one, this one, me. tony soprano. and all that comes with it. >> oh, you prick. >> it's okay to come to television. >> what did i do except deliver

the south? >> you shouldn't have made me beg. >> network dramas became innovative. they were making a new mark. >> once we started making the kinds of shows that we were making, in the '90s, you couldn't shut the door on them. >> get me out. >> some of my favorite shows of all-time aired that decade. and everybody was watching them. there was still that communal sense from the earlier decades of tv, but it was being applied to shows that were reaching higher and forther. and they were great. >> damn it. i think if parents would spend less time worrying about what's watching tv, and more time worrying about what's going on in their lives, this world will be a better place. >> totally, dude.

good point, man. >> quick. jump through the window. president clinton said today he is very pleased with his first year in office. but not a bit happy about how it's ending. >> look at how it's ending. i want to go to work. >> whitewater is not going away. >> republicans sme s smell blo. >> his re-election campaign is heating up. >> clinton has won a second term as president of the united states. >> the possible of impeaching the president must now be addressed. ♪