an executive branch "in chaos" and a president who has "seeming affection for strong men and authoritari authoritarians." what impact about l those words have? we have it covered for you. cnn's joe johns live at the white house, another busy morning. joe? >> that's right, alisyn. the question is whether there was concealment at the highest level at the white house, after the stunning revelation about the administration's response to the report in the "new york times" that john jr. met with the russian lawyer. it could have legal implications for the president himself as the white house continues to deal with the fallout from the latest shakeup. "the washington post" reporting that president trump personally dictated his son's misleading initial statement about the reason for the june 2016 meeting with a russian lawyer. it all happened on air force one while the president was

returning from the g20 summit last month. "the post" says president trump overruled his advisers who were advocating for full transparency, directing the statement to describe the focus of the meeting being about adoption of russian children. trump jr.'s own emails released days later show that the meeting was actually about providing the trump campaign with incriminating information on hillary clinton from the russian government, it remains unclear if president trump knew this at the time. "the washington post" reports that white house advisers now worry that the president's direct involvement leaves him needlessly vulnerable to allegations of a coverup. >> i wasn't involved in the statement drafting at all nor was the president. i'm assuming that was between mr. donald trump jr., between don jr. and his lawyer. >> reporter: after vehemently denying that president trump was involved last month, one of the president's private attorneys refutes "the washington post" report in a statement saying "apart from being of no

consequence, the characterizations are misinformed, inaccurate and not pertinent." these stunning revelations coming after the president vowed there was no chaos at the white house, tweeting that it was a great day, despite another major shakeup. >> i have no doubt that he will be an absolutely superb chief of staff. >> reporter: communications director anthony scaramucci ousted by the new chief of staff general john kelly after ohm days on the job. scaramucci's brief ten tour marred about a vulgar tirade about his white house colleagues and amplified on a bizarre interview on "new day." >> as you know from the italian express the fish stinks from the head down. but i can tell you two fish that don't stink and that's me and the president. >> the president certainly felt that anthony's comments were inappropriate for a person in that position. >> reporter: despite the

president's own history of vulgar comments. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> reporter: which led to a rare apology in the final stretch of the campaign. two sources close to the white house tell cnn that the president initially found scaramucci's comments amusing, but soured after scaramucci appeared to be overshadowing him, the new white house chief of staff making it clear he is going to stop the free-for-all here at the white house. all staffers now report directly to him. chris and alisyn? >> joe johns, thank you. let's bring in the panel. cnn politics reporter and editor-at-large, chris cillizza, cnn political commentator lieian lizza and cnn political analyst michael shear. we needed you because we didn't want the panel completely comprised of italians.

camerota, cuomo, cillizza, lizza. let's play jake sekulow again, one of the attorneys supporting and speaking for the president. we talked to him specifically about the suggestion of the president's involvement. let's be honest. it was odd to believe that the president had nothing to do with something of this level of importance, but here is what jay sekulow said. so he zdidn't have anything to o with the statement worked on by his team? >> are you talking about yesterday's chris? >> the one over the weekend, that the president was helping with. >> no, that was written by donald trump and i'm in consultation with his lawyer. >> the "new york times" is reporting the president okayed the statement. >> well they're incorrect. >> the "new york times" is wrong? >> i know, is that shocking sometimes they make a mistake? >> yeah, it's shocking, because they didn't make a mistake,

michael shear. as we often do, we didn't have the reporting solid. we asked him about it and we probed him about it. he said he had nothing to do with it. do you think that's a lie or sekulow didn't know? that seems unlikely given "the washington post" reporting. >> "the post" reporting builds on what we had at the time the fact there had been these discussions on air force one that we had had, that the president was involved and signed off on. "the post" pushes the reporting further that in fact the president was a central player in drafting it. there are two broad pieces to the russia problem form the president. the underlying substance of did the campaign collude and meet with russians and what's the response since then and have there been attempts to comp.up and mislead investigators as they probe that. this goes in a really bad way to the latter. you don't put out the information that this was a meeting that was about something else when it was, when the

documents, the emails clearly describe that it was about a meeting with russians for the purpose of influencing the campaign, and i think one last point is that this goes to also the other story that you've been talking about this morning, which is yen ral kelgeneral kel. there's no discipline in the white house what the message is. the lawyers are on one page, the staff is talking about another thing. the question going forward, can general kelly bring the kind of discipline to this white house that would at least get them all on the same page so these kinds of situations where they're providing information that's just flatly not true to the public. i mean that's what they've got to get a handle on. >> chris cillizza, for people waking up, lets reremind them that the initial statement was actually dictated by the president. here's what don jr. said july 8th about that meeting. "it was a short introductory meeting. i asked jared and paul manafort

to stop by. we primarily discussed a program about the adoption of russian children that was active and popular with american families years ago, and was since ended but the russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at the time, and there was no follow-up. i was asked to attend the meeting by an aquintance but not told the name of the person i would be meeting with beforehand." now, that is misleading. >> yep. >> we now have learned that actually he was promised dirt on hillary clinton, that's why he took the meeting. it wasn't -- they may have talked about russian adoption when they got in there but that's not what the meeting was about. >> this isn't a suggestion. in his own emails don jr. said "i love it" that was the pretense for the invite. >> absolutely. now, it is not a crime to mislead the american people or the press. so where does that leave us today? >> let me first say, alisyn, that when people out in the world say that reporters parse

the statements of public officials and those around them too closely, i would refer to that don jr. statement, because as you point out, it's misleading. it's not false. there's nothing in it that we know is absolutely totally a lie, but it's about, it's the tail of the elephant as opposed to the entire elephant. that's point one. point two, it is not a crime to do what they're doing here, but this is more smoke. i feel like i'm on a couple times a week and we have this same conversation which is, no, there is not a fire yet. there is no proof of collusion, although don trump jr.'s meeting certainly, that june meeting certainly doesn't look good, but everything here keeps pointing to the fact that donald trump was more involved than he said, that the entire thing was more than they let on in the beginning. don trump jr.'s statement which apparently according to "the

washington post" was dictated by donald trump sr. had to be changed multiple times as that week went along, and that's what i always keep coming back to here. if you are the president of the united states and believe in your heart of hearts as donald trump says he does, you believe in your heart of hearts you've done nothing wrong that this is in his words a total witch hunt, a hoax, then you should want to help bob mueller as much as possible get to the bottom of this because it is the only possible way you could be fully exonerated in the eyes of democrats, independents and republicans. that is not what he has done and in fact it's almost the opposite what have he's done. >> i willian lizza you have illegality but that is a really high bar in judging propriety by leadership. it doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong. this was a misleading statement. this is not what the meeting was about. we know that from don jr.'s own emails and now we know that, unless the president was unaware of the emails and what the actual context was, he was

involved in an intentional deception about the meeting, not illegal but how is it not wrong? >> the statement said it was primarily about adoption. to play devil's advocate. if can comes out even though the meeting was set up to be about giving information about hillary clinton from the russian government, they got in there and it really was mostly, most of the time about adoptions, you know, perhaps they had this legalistic leg to stand on but your point about what did president trump know precisely when he was, as "the washington post" says he was, dictating the statement, i think is really important. did trump know about the email chain from don jr., and his associate who is setting him up with the russians? did he clearly know exactly what the details were about that meeting afterward? so when he was dictating the statement, did he know that he

affirmatively that he was -- >> imagine if he didn't know? >> if he did not' know? >> if the president wasn't told about the emails which is almost inconceivab inconceivable. >> why would the president know about his son's emails? i don't know that -- >> how could he are he lease a statement -- >> they're sitting on the plane doing the statement without knowing? >> right. >> this is what has to come out in the investigation obviously, we're speculating but i think the president based on his sil teams to be on a need o know basis. he dint' kn doesn't know the ni gritty. >> if i'm your lawyer, hold up a second, alisyn, the emails which kushner's lawyers found, that was starting his universe of discussion. >> i can't tell if on air force one there was a legal mind weighing in on this. >> according to jay sekulow don jr.'s lawyers are up aover it. >> he's the liable narrator at this point about that.

guys, panel -- >> i think he had to know. if "the post's" reporting is correct it seems the president did indeed know. the dispute according to "the post" correct me if i'm wrong was that don jr. and his lawyers wanted a more fulsome statement because their assumption was the "new york times" knew even more about this and the white house, led by the president, said wait a second we don't need to say all that. let's talk about the adoption part of that meeting. >> guys, thank you very much. stick around. because it is a very, very busy news morning. we have a lot to get to. now to the cnn exclusive, according to two sources before becoming the new white house chief of staff, general john kelly was upset with how president trump handled the firing of fbi director james comey, and considered stepping down as secretary of homeland security. cnn crime and justice reporter shimone procupez joins us with more. >> that's right. white house chief of staff john

kelly was so upset with the way president trump handled the firing of fbi director james comey he called comey after he was terminated to say how angry he was. at the time el canny was secretary of homeland security. kelly was upset by the way comey was treated by learning he had been fired on the news rather than by the president. the call took place while comey was traveling back from los angeles to washington on may 9th, after learning the news. comey declined to comment to us about the story as well as others contacted for the story, alisyn. >> okay, so i understand you're told general kelly went even further in that phone call. >> yeah, that's right. it was a pretty lengthy conversation and we're told that kelly was so angry that he even told comey he was contemplating resigning from his position as secretary of homeland security as a show of solidarity. we're told comey responded by telling him not to resign. sources have cautioned us that it was unclear how serious kelly

was about resigning himself and of course that never happened, and now he's white house chief of staff, alisyn and chris? >> shimon, that's why this reporting is so significant. we're trying to figure out, well, how will general kelly tame what's happening with the white house, tame the president's instincts, and this is a window into what he sees as too much, what he's willing to do about it, so helpful, if nothing else. and all of this done in light of yet another shakeup at the white house, and maybe the biggest surprise to date. anthony scaramucci out as communications director, supposedly the general didn't want him there, but why did they get rid of him, and what does this mean? next.

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and fall is, you know, epic. >> yeah, ten days as communications director is not a very long tenure. >> understatement of the day, ryan lizza. >> i think in the research your staff put together there was one other shorter tenure in the reagan era, communications director who had some, you know, unsavory things in the past. >> nazi ties. >> nazi ties, yes, those. nazi ties. so i think that, you know, anthony had a plan for ousting reince priebus but didn't necessarily have a plan for what came next. and didn't quite understand what the impact when john kelly was put into that position, someone who clearly understands, you know, how you gain control of an organization, and clearly as a condition of taking this job, convinced president trump that

he needs to be a real chief of staff, and that is, that everyone needs to report to the president through the chief of staff. scaramucci had negotiated this deal with trump where he was reporting personally to trump, not the chief of staff, in control of one of the biggest offices in the white house, the communications office, and kelly rightly saw that that's an intolerable situation for a chief of staff to deal with and on top of that, of course, you had the interview with me that, you know, even seemed to offend trump, and i reported this last night in the piece i wrote, even before the interview with me, scaramucci was on a little bit of thin ice with trump. it was one of the reasons why he so strongly didn't want me to publish that interview. so it wasn't just the interview. he was already sort of sliding into a bad place with the president. >> look, you're going to hear lots of different accounts. after scaramucci came on that morning, after he deleted the tweets, he had gotten himself in trouble, he was a hero.

the thunder dome has to hold. one day you are the cock of the walk, the next a feather duster, that's what tina turner said in the movie and that's exactly what she was talking about. now, in terms of what this means and what it tells us about the white house, let's hear from sarah huckabee sanders in terms of what they felt about what the word from the white house was about what scaramucci had said. >> the president is not a stranger to salty language. can you specify exactly what he found inappropriate or disturbing about that? >> i said he found it inappropriate for a person in that position. >> to do what? >> i believe the comments that he made, he found those comments inappropriate. i'm not sure. it's unclear. >> it's all unclear. just because you deliver it with a straight face doesn't mean it makes sense. koroun, scaramucci, who is of unqualified loyalty who does and says exactly what the president

was the same way the president does, even he gets tossed. what does this tell us about the dynamic inside the white house? >> it tells you general kelly is asserting control. he does not want to be the next reince priebus at the end of the next sky moochie tirade the next time he decides to call a reporter. he did let that situation transpire where it was a possibility that would severely compromise his authority and the one thing general kelly has is pretty much untouched authority. the president respects the job he did at dhs. he put him in to bring the gravitas of a military leader. if you have scaramucci able to poke at that because he doesn't report to him and the track record is to poke brazenly at the press, that's not a good situation going in. i don't know this for sure, but it almost tells you that the fact that scaramucci did not go immediately after that, that he survived for i think half his tenure after that article was

published is maybe a sign of the fact that the president was not ready to make that call to pull it himself but certainly the fact this was one of the first moves kelly made after he was installed as chief of staff tells you he doesn't want a repeat of this situation and sees scaramucci as a potential liability that could go back into this mode if he thinks it behooves him. >> look, also we've heard that the president doesn't take kindly to people who sort of, whose stars start to flame brighter. scaramucci was the news for that brief 48 hours. >> he was brought in to do it. the president was celebrating his success. makes you wonder what the definition of loyalty is in that place if even anthony scaramucci can get off this way. >> you keep using the analogy of thunder dome. >> because it's perfect. >> but there's also the "survivor" analogy what the new york post is running in terms of who is out and who is in on the

island. reince is gone and now scaramucci. >> kushner hiding in the bushes, that's accurate. bannon is smiling, i don't know why. >> because he sur sifz. survives. >> he's in a good position. >> go ahead, chris cillizza. >> my favorite part of that photo is the head band on bannon. here's the thing. what karoun said is 100% right about john kelly. he does have relative full authority at the moment. the issue is that the one person who is his boss, the one person that he reports to is named donald trump, and if past is prologue, donald trump will go along, listen to his advice, might be a week, a month, might be six months but donald trump will return to being donald trump. he's a 71-year-old man. he's had a lot of success in his life. he is into chaos.

he is into the infighting. he is into managing his own message and his own brand. if someone exists, if john kelly can manage donald trump, that would make the first person in donald trump's entire life, who has been able to do that. it is possible. >> 25 minutes into the show, no tweets from the president and maybe that's an early indication that the general made a suggestion and it's being upheld thus far. >> chris, i remember when the president was on his european trip that this last one, and he was relatively calm twitter wise, basically tweeting out hey, i gave the speech today, i talked to this person. when he came back, came the mika brzinski tweet. today is not predictive of tomorrow. this is the trump presidency. there is no arc. there is no necessary narrative. it is him saying stuff and

making moves day-to-day. we, i think we try to draw that line in between all the dots, and i'm not sure there's a line to be drawn. >> karoun -- >> sorry -- >> one quick story, can i tell, one quick story on kelly's relationship with trump, i reported last night, kelly was out in aspen, colorado, at a conference recently and he told a group of national security experts who are highly skeptical of trump and were wondering how kelly was serving in the trump administration, what it was like and kelly explained to this group in a private meeting that he thinks he, that the president listens to him, and he used it as an example that he thinks he has changed trump's mind about the nature of border security and the border wall and he brought trump through all the different ways you can protect the border short of a full physical wall, and he was encouraging trump to start calling it a barrier, rather than a wall, and he was, i wouldn't say bragging but the way it was told to me he was proud of the fact that he had sort of got trump to this place

where he sort of thought in a more nuanced way about border security, but then he added as an aside, of course he could do one tweet and that could all change everything. >> that is instructive. >> he understands the volatility. >> that's instructive. i mean the people that i know who are still working in the white house say they also believe that they are doing good, that they can somehow manage the president's message or him at times. you have to believe that obviously if you're working in the white house, otherwise it's futile. one last thing karoun, jeff flake, where have republicans been, why aren't they speaking out more vociferously? jeff blake wrote this for "politico." who could blame the people who felt abandoned and ignored by the major parties for reaching in despair for a candidate who offered oversimplified answers for infinitely complex questions

and managed to entertain them in the process in with hindsight it is clear we conservatives all but ensured the rise of donald trump." it's time to speak out. >> they entered this marriage and helped propel him. his base came from a position of being dissatisfied with both parties they helped propel him to the white house and now they have to own that, as jeff flake is saying, and having to manage that in a way and that is clearly the issue for the gop on capitol hill across the country. where is their center? where is their core? where is their identity? is it trump or the establishment gop as we like to call it used to be or can they find some middle ground that is sustainable for more than a day's worth of tweets to the next one? and we'll see basically if after this health care bill, if the members of the gop on capitol hill decide to change tack, we'll also see if trump decides to listen to kelly more because

he's a general and trump likes to listen to generals more than other people and maybe this is the way forward or maybe these are statements this week that sounds nice and we'll be in the same boat next week. >> you have a general who may be willing to quit if things don't go the way they're supposed to, that could be motivation, too. i don't know if the president wants that on his tab. >> panel, thank you for the reporting and analysis there. >> the white house is a mess, there's no question about it, but here is the good news, it ain't venezuela. that situation is worsening by the hour. you had a violent and deadly election there, and now the latest word, two opposition leaders taken into custody. the u.s. moving swiftly against the president there, maduro, his regime. we have a live report from venezuela next.

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the wives of two key opposition leaders say their husbands were taken from their homes overnight, this as the u.s. slaps venezuelan president nicolas maduro with sanctions and slams sunday's vote as illegitimate. leyla santiago is lives in caracas, give us the latest. >> reporter: these are two big names, we'll start with lopolo lopez. when you are out on protests you can see his face on t-shirts and posters. he's become one of the faces in the voices of the opposition speaking out against the government, and we know through surveillance video and through tweets from the family that he was taken from his home overnight in the middle of the night. the time stamp on that surveillance video stands at 12:27 and you see he's taken away by a group, put into a car, marked as sebine, the acronym for the intelligence agency here. also more video, video from cell

phone, from a cell phone that captures the moment that antonio radezma was taken. this is dramatic. you hear a man asking for help, and then you hear a woman saying "l "ledezma is being taken" yelling in the middle of the night in the apartment building "dictatorship" as he was being taken away, and also being put into a car, belonging to or marked labeled as the intelligence agency. that is what people in venezuela are waking up to, and this comes just a day after the u.s. announced sanctions against the president, president nicolas maduro. his assets will be frozen. what the u.s. has not announced yet is any sort of sanction that could or are any sort of sanctions against the oil industry here, which could be big. i talked to someone from the trump administration yesterday that told me this is something

that's being debated. this is something that's being discussed, but at this point, the u.s. is going after president maduro, and they're saying it's a matter of principle and democracy. >> really interesting developments down there. how will the u.s. actions influence the president going forward, does it make it easier for harder to try to create change there? thank you for the reporting, and be safe. all right, so the "help wanted" sign is out at the white house. they're looking for a lot of different positions. with the absence of scaramucci is a new communications director, but here is the question. forget about whether or not anyone can survive that job, is it needed, given the president's penchant for doing his own pr? you do all this research

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all right, believe it or not, anthony scaramucci is out as the white house communications director, after an obviously brief tenure. president trump arguably his best advocate, so is this an indication that he doesn't need a communications director? joining us now is cnn's senior media correspondent, host of

"reliable sources" mr. brian stelter, new dad, and frank sesno, director of the school and media of public affairs at george washington university, long time dad. frank, what do you make of the assertion that trump does his own pr. nobody can last in that job? >> well, let's keep talking about dads, adult supervision is a good thing. nobody may last in that job, but trump needs a communications director. every president needs a communications director. communications director brings the message together, coordinates the different wings of the white house, works across departments and agencies, so the department of defense is saying the same thing as the department of state. heaven forbid the same thing as the president of the united states. it's a critically important job especially now, and if kelly is successful, and there's a new communications director, they'll take it from a chaos presidency is what the world sees to what i'll call a split screen presidency. as we're speaking as you have

tracked, venezuela is in chaos, russia is menacing at the border. north korea is launching icbms. the world is a dangerous place with a lot of things that need to be addressed, with some discipline and precision. >> an important point. you had vice president pence talking about russia's presence in georgia. remember what that can lead to, during the bush administration, what russia did in georgia, so a lot of big issues. brian, what did we just see here with the president, and these changes in the white house? anthony scaramucci goes there. he says what the president wants him to say. he says it the way the president wants him to say it. >> exactly. >> he applauds him for saying it. he then gets stung in the lizza piece and all of a sudden he's out. >> almost like a kamikaze, suicide mission. he was there to get reince priebus removed. once he did that, he was less useful to the trump family. i think there's a baked in assumption that the president has a positive message he wants to relay as opposed to wanting

to pick fights, wanting to get even with enemies, wanting to do battle. if you look at his twitter account and his public statements, he seems to want to relitigate the election and get even with his enemies. >> 42 minutes in, frank, no tweets from the president yet, may be an early sign the general, because there's been a lot for him to talk about the president, a lot of things i'm sure he's not happy with. >> if he tweets he'll tweet something dishonest. yesterday "no chaos here, great day at the white house." >> we have no idea. >> the stunning "the washington post" story about his dishonesty, it's august. the story of the trump presidency every month is his dishonesty. that might be the message overall that's been received. >> we take each tweet on its face but it would be interesting to see how he wants to spin this. another thing that goes to your point about coordinated message, ev ivanka trump seen as a force for good in the white house in helping to control her father's appetites and instincts yet she

put in her statement about kelly we saw in the "the washington post" "i look forward to working with kelly." we're told kelly is her boss. is that an intentional miscommunication? >> whether it's an intentional miscommunication or not, it creates the intentional confusion i think. talk about a conflict of interest. conflict of interest is if you're working for the president, and the president's children are working for you, but the president's children think they're talking directly to the president, which they do over any meal that they want. look, i would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when general kelly was talking to the president of the united states. if as a military man he was communicating what he needed to communicate, he would have had said sir, this is a privilege to have this job but i have to tell you, our mission is in jeopardy. my assessment of the situation is that we are losing on all fronts and if i'm going to be able to serve you, i've got to do a variety of things, and if i can't do that, i cannot succeed and neither can you. that includes controlling the message, controlling the children and frankly, sir, controlling you.

i wonder what that conversation was like, and where it's going to go. >> well they say -- >> by all indications donald trump does not want to be controled. >> has this alternative reality that he continues to be able to tune into every night, and be reassured that all is well. last night on fox, eric trump saying the people of this country love my father. the polls don't indicate that that's accurate at all, but those kinds of comments, that kind of rhetoric, that kind of support from the conservative media universe and from his own family members indicates to me that the president doesn't necessarily think he needs to make big changes. >> but brian, it goes beyond the conservative meeting. i was just traveling and talking to real people in real places who do love the president and want him to succeed and do think the media, including cnn, is out to get him, and so the question is whether general kelly can -- although the people i talked to also are getting very uneasy about the behavior of the president. can general kelly tame the president enough so that the people who really do love him can see some response there. >> right. >> and the people who are

skeptical can see some improvement. i mean, i -- >> i sometimes when you love someone you got to have an intervention. >> correct. >> you've got two things going in the positive direction with general kelly that we know already. already made manifest. one he's got a uniform on, even though he's retired general, and that supposedly is impressive to the president. we keep hearing reports he respects kelly, he respects the generals. there's one thing. the second thing is, if the reports about his response to comey is true, you also have somebody of great import, great respect who may be willing to resign if things go sideways. that could be a motivation for the president. he probably doesn't want that on his tab. frank, brian, value added as always. thank you. >> thank you. >> alisyn? tropical storm emily has been downgraded to a depression, but the flooding threat remains, so chat myers has all of our latest forecast, next. l. with hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin.

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threat of flooding and rip currents continues. so let's bring in cnn meteorologist chad myers. he has our forecast. what do you see, chad? >> i see the storm moving away, and now anywhere from the space coast cape canaveral up to about jacksonville we could have nine to ten-foot seas. this weather is brought to you by purina, your pet, our passion. here is where the rain came in yesterday, heavy rainfall from napeles to ft. myers. did see four to six inches of rain but now the storm is in the atlantic, moving away, completely going to move away from land, no more threat to the u.s. whatsoever. that's the good news. no more rainfall. now for the northeast a nice day today, a couple showers across parts of the midwest. the story for the temperatures was the tale of two coasts. nice today in washington, d.c., nice for the rest of the week, but look at the west. record high temperatures, can you believe portland, oregon, will have 108. that will be a new all-time record high. chris? >> all right, chad, as you always try to instruct us, when

you have a big swing in one direction you got to be worried about what comes next. thank you very much, my friend. there is continued fallout after president trump said officers should be rough on suspects. could his words erode public trust in the police or is it all dismissed as a joke? (vo) dogs have evolved, but their nutritional needs remain instinctual. that's why there's purina one true instinct. nutrient-dense, protein-rich, real meat number one. this is a different breed of nutrition. purina one, true instinct. at the lexus golden opportunity sales event before it ends. choose from the is turbo, es 350 or nx turbo for $299 a month for 36 months if you lease now. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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contributor and "the washington post" political reporter wesley lowery, and former wide receiver for the new england patriots donte' stallworth. do donte is working with lawmakers on criminal law issues. wes you heard the president was just kidding don't protect suspects heads when you put them into the police car, let them bang their heads, what did you think? >> well, i think that in some ways, the white house believes saying hey, this was just a joke is a means of dismissing this, but i actually think him joking about this may be just as bad, if not worst, if this had been some earnest statement. the reality is large swathes of the population, tons of americans and police will say this, who have distrust of police officers who have experiences which they believe they've been abused and assaulted, mistreated, so that the commander in chief of the

united states of america would i think that's something appropriate to joke about, you know, i think really raises eyebrows for a lot of folks. beyond that, you've got an attorney general, jeff sessions, who has insisted that he is going to be serious about police officers who do the wrong thing. he has this reputation that he's going to be a little too soft on police. he's gotten some criticism about some of the things he said, the doj may no longer be investigating police departments and his department has sworn up and down no, no, no, we'll be tough an bad cops and to have his boss come out joking in front of a room full of police officers about assaulting suspects, undermines everything that the trump administration's tried to insist to reporters like myself, when we've asked them, hey, are you still going to hold police accountable. >> donte', you've had experiences on both sides of the criminal justice system. you served time for a fatal drunk driving accident and then you recently went to capitol hill and are trying to work with lawmakers on community policing

issues in minority communities. how did you hear the president's comments? >> well, i mean i heard them as not as a joke, and in the highly unlikely event that he was joking, i think it just exhibits the trivial nature in how he views police brutality and how he wants to handle police brutality. now, when we're talking about joking about this situation, i personally don't believe that he was joking. we've heard this type of tough talk and rhetoric and disregard for the rule of law from real estate mogul donald trump when he demanded that the central park five be executed for a crime that they did not commit. we heard this from then candidate president trump on the campaign stump, where he told his people that were there at his rallies, he told them that he would pay for their, he would pay for their legal fees if they would knock the hell out of

protesters, and we also heard this from now president donald trump. so to say that he was joking, to me that insults the intelligence of the american people, but i think another important part of this story is what president trump has talked about on the campaign, not just the disregard for the rule of law here in america, you know, for domestic policies, but also internationally, too. he's talked about war crimes, talked about bringing back torture. talked about a lot of these things that were banned by the international community. >> so you see this as a window into his true feelings. you don't think this was a flippant comment about how he thinks that suspects should be treated. i just want to get to the police departments that feel the same way that you do. wes, all sorts of police departments and associations have come out and condemned what the president said, and i think that the gainesville police department captures the feeling of many across the country. listen to this.

>> the officers that were behind him applauding and cheering about a comment that he made about police brutality should be ashamed of themselves. american modern law enforcement is not any more about roughing people up. it's not about slamming people into cars. it's about community oriented policing. it's about knowing your community and treating everyone with respect. >> wes, look, as i've said, you won a pulitzer for a coverage of this. what the president said is not the message that police departments are trying to push out right now. this isn't what they needed. >> of course not. but it also i think really highlights a division between many of the police chiefs and police commissioners, with some of their rank and file. we've seen a lot of departments come out and say this is disgusting. this is not what we believe. former chiefs, former commissioners, people with some status, folks who might be able to find a microphone and camera and talk about it, but i think we make a mistake if we write off the applause and the response that donald trump received from many of the rank and file officers sitting behind

him, the cheering. this is something that he exploited i think throughout the campaign and i think sometimes was an underdiscussed dynamic of this, right, his tough talk about law enforcement, supporting law enforcement, his kind of flippant and glib nature, beat them up and throw them out. we support our men in blue, we've got your back. that was attractive to many rank and file officers who think that is a thug, throw him in the back the car. what is with all this scrutiny we're getting? of course we've had a lot of police leaders who have condemned this in strong unequivocal terms, but we can't forget that many of the folks who are really the ones intersackeinte interacting with people on the streets heard these comments and smiled a little bit about them. there's a division between some of your rank and file officers and your command staff. >> donte', quickly, we're almost out of time, what is the message you're giving to lawmakers and police chiefs across the country how to best serve these communities? >> well i think you just have to br