hour. that's it for us. thanks for joining us. i'm ee echristine romans. >> i'm dave briggs. "new day" >> he was slow and then he slammed on the gas. >> the hate and the division must stop and must stop right now. >> the president condemned the violence and didn't dig nye the names of these groups of people. >> he needed to be much harsher as relate stod the american supremacists. >> an american citizen was assassinated in broad daylight by a nazi. >> very fascinated with adolf hitler. >> the events were horrible and president trump's reaction was almost as depressing. >> i have a message to the white supremacists and the nazis. our message is plain and simple. go home. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> welcome to our viewers around the united states and the world, this is "new day."

monday, august 14, 6:00 here in new york. poppy harlow with me all week. here is our starting line. democrats and republicans united in blasting the president's response to the violence smashed by white supremacists in virginia. the president did condemn violence but said on many sides, many sides, twice he said something that shocks the conscience of members of both political parties and people across this country. the vice president, mike pence, defending the president, blasting the media for scrutinizing his deafening silence. then the vice president did exactly what the president did not do, he condemned white supremacists, neo nazis and the kkk by name. >> naming them is critical. meantime, the suspected attacker will be arraigned in a few hours, accused of driving his car straight into that crowd, killing 32-year-old heather

heyer for standing up to hate and voicing that. his high school teacher says he was a nazi sympathizer who long idolized adolf hitler. military options are prepared in case sanctions on north korea fail to defuse the nuclear threat. let's begin with cnn's jeff zeleny live in bridgewater, new jersey, where the president is on this working vacation. retweets from the president on political things, but silence on this. >> good morning, poppy. it is a vague silence. we heard president trump, known for being outspoken and blunt when he wants to be. sunday, yesterday, marked only the fourth day of his presidency where he was completely silent on social media, failing to call out the white supremacists from

the deadly violence in charlottesville. >> we have no tolerance for hate and violence from white supremacists, neo nazis or the kkk. >> reporter: vice president mike pence doing what the president did not, directly condemning white supremacists by name after the deadly violence in charlottesville. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms, the egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. >> reporter: the vice president coming to the president's defense in the face of growing backlash over mr. trump's response. >> president trump clearly and unambiguously condemned the bigotry, violence and hatred which took place. i take issue with the fact that many in the national media spend more time criticizing the president's words than they did criticizing those who perpetrated the violence to begin with.

>> reporter: the white house releasing a statement from an unnamed spokesperson sunday, 36 hours after the protest began insisting president trump's comments decrying bigotry includes white supremacists, kkk, neo nazi and all extremist groups. top aides to the president also pushing back on the sunday shows. >> the president has been very clear, we cannot tolerate this kind of bigotry, this kind of hatred. >> the president not only condemned the violence and stood up at a time and moment when calm was necessary and didn't dig nye the names of these groups of people, but rather addressed the fundamental issue. >> reporter: president trump ignored multiple questions from reporters after a statement on saturday. >> mr. president, do you want the support of these groups, president? have you denounced them strong enough. >> we just aren't seeing leadership from the white house. >> reporter: the president's refusal to denounce the groups by name drawing fierce backlash

from his own party. >> i would urge the president to dissuade them of the fact that he's sympathetic to their cause because their cause is hate, it is un-american, they are domestic terrorists and we need more from our president. >> call this white supreme sichl, white nationalism evil. let the country hear it. it's something that needs to come from the oval office and this white house needs to do it today. >> the president is interrupting his working vacation here in new jersey to fly back to washington later this morning to sign an unrelated legislation -- piece of legislation on china trade policy. poppy, still so many questions here about the president's comments on this. white house aides tell me this morning they believe he will take case on this later this morning, even as new questions are swirling about steve bannon's future. he, of course, is the chief strategist. a lot happening on this busy monday here in new jersey and at the white house. >> indeed, we'll get into that

about bannon a little later and hope the president does take those questions in the press conference. the man accuse ofd driving a car into a crowd of counterprotesters killing 32-year-old heather heyer, injuring 19 others, arraigned in hours. a former teacher of the attacker claimed he proudly proclaimed himself a nazi sympathizer. what else are we learning inside this? >> reporter: james alex fields, junior, will be arraigned. currently held in the charlottesville jail. he'll be facing one charge of second degree murder. aong others, the doj and fbi also conducting a civil rights investigation into the assault. investigators will be looking into this man's past to help determine his motive, and we're learning more about the 20-year-old man from ohio. while his mother said just moments of learning of the

charges of her son, she never discussed his political beliefs with him, one of his former teachers had this to say. >> he had some very radical views on race. he was very infatuated with the nazis, adolf hitler. he had a huge military history, german military history and world war ii. he was pretty infatuated with that stuff. >> u.s. army confirms to pentagon reporter barbara starr fields reported for basic training in august of 2015. he didn't meet the basic training standards and left the service in december of that same year. we're learning more about the victim, 32-year-old heather heyer. there was a vigil scheduled last night, but because of perceived threats, organizer canceled the events. heyer's mother says she had

always been someone wanting to help others. >> it was important to her to speak up for people she felt was not being heard, to speak up when injustices were happening. she saw in the lives of many of her african-american friends particularly and her gay friends that's call rights were not being given. >> reporter: heyer was a paralegal for a charlottesville law firm. the law enforcement community mourning the loss of two of their own as a helicopter crashed as it was serving. the two lost their lives and governor terry mcauliffe knew both of them, he says these heroes were part of our family. the president also offered his condolences on twitter. on this monday morning, the barricades in this park

throughout the weekend, the center of the controversy here, in emancipation park, the barricades are gone, the streets are open. poppy, there is a lot of healing left to do in charlottesville. >> all right, kayla, thank you very much. let's bring in cnn senior political analyst ron brownstein and analysts john avlon and abby phillip. john, we want to keep mentioning the troopers and heather heyer. hate took lives there in virginia. we want to remember the people that were resistant to that hatred. that's important. equally important is the message from our leadership. mike pence, the vice president, can say whatever he wanted. the president created a wtf moment with what he did and did not say. him repeating on many sides, on many sides, didn't make sense

contextually but is completely baffling given the circumstances. how do you explain it? >> i don't think you can explain it why is why the white house has been scrambling, not addressing the president's problem, doubling down on that "on many sides" comment on the day this was going down. this isn't a high bar for presidential leadership, condemning neo nazis and white supremacists. even on the friday night in the square there are young men giving nazi salutes in front of a statue of robert e. lee. that's not a misunderstanding, that's nothing you should consider any part of your base. that's something that needs to be clearly condemned. if it can't be clearly condemned, people have to look really hard in the mirror. that's not to say the president is a part of these groups, but if he is in any way encouraging or empowering these groups, basically saying -- he called the other side haters, this is a victory for us, that's a problem. we need to have this conversation as a country now.

>> if you stand by silently, then what? this country has learned that lesson too many times. ron brownstein, something from jon meacham that stood out for me, history will judge the president's word play over resurgent white nationalism harshly and sooner than he realizes. despite all the white house has said in this statement -- later, yesterday, 24 hours later, white nationalism, the kkk, does it matter if the president doesn't say it out loud? >> sure. i think he's already sent the message. i actually don't think this is a wtf moment. it's hard to justify, not hard to explain. it's exactly to the tee what he did with david duke on the sunday before the key southern states voted in the republican primary last year where he sent his clear signal by what he did not say initially, but not condemning him. only when elite opinion and

broad opinion across both parties condemned him did he come out with the denuns asian which i'm sure is coming eventually here, too. >> this is what he said to jake when he was asked about this during the campaign with david duke. well, we'll have it in a little bit. >> just to finish the point, which is there is a relatively small -- i think there's a minuscule percentage of americans who completely sympathize with kkk or nazi ideology and imagery. there are a broader group of americans uneasy about demographic, racial and curl turl change. from the beginning president trump has signaled his sympathy to nose voters in a variety of ways, the ways he described mexicans in the first press conference, saying judge curiel couldn't judge fairly because of his heritage, to what he said about david duke. >> here it is. let's listen to this so people have context.

>> absolutely. >> i didn't even know he endorsed me. david duke? >> i disavow. >> will you say you don't want his vote or that of other white supremacists in this election? >> just so you understand, i don't know anything about david duke. i don't know what you're talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. >> for timing context, we flipped those two bites. the disavow came after. it just wasn't that it was about what he was saying. he had complete evidence of who david duke was. he also denied him earlier. he once was going to run for president with part of this party, called the reform party. duke was connected to it. he said at that time i don't want anything to do with this guy. >> just to finish the point, chris. it was the sunday before the largest number of southern

states voted in the republican primary. that was very calculated. eventually he kind of provides the denuns asian that the bipartisan critics demand. but after he has sent his signal. again, he has done very well from the beginning with the elements of american society most uneasy about racial tensions. the vote driven by demographic anxiety, cultural anxiety, the two are braided together. the president has been unwilling to kind of draw a clear, bright line, isolating these groups, not i think because so many americans are sympathetic to them, but because it's part of a continuum of views that he has played on and spoken to as clearly as he possibly could. >> abby, "new york times" editorial board this morning writes, president trump is alone

in modern presidential history in his unwillingness to summon demons of bigotry. he began with a lie about president barack obama's citizenship and has failed to condemn bigots who rally behind him. your thoughts this morning? >> i think we have to go all the way back to the time when the president was thinking of running for president. he decided that what he was going to do was talk about president trump's birth certificate and the fact that he was born in hawaii and insinuate that he was, in fact, born in kenya. that was the foundation of a racist lie that spoke to something that a lot of republicans for a long time wanted to shove into a corner. donald trump at that time spoke directly to it. this is a very analogous situation. i think politicians have always known these people are out there, the david dukes, white

supremacists, they've been out there for a long time. i think republican politicians have shoved them in a corner. but donald trump is not doing that. that is not an accident. it's also incredibly telling that this is a presidency that has for a long time been fairly ahistorical. the president has not been particularly interested in history where he is in the context of other presidents. the fact that white supremacists, the kkk can march in charlottesville with torches and later kill someone allegedly with a vehicle in what appears to be an intentional attack, and the president doesn't speak at all to the long history of these groups terrorizing african-americans in this country, is a second part of this broader failure of this president to address the moment. violence aside, the existence of kkk in the streets should draw condemnation. that didn't happen. it's very telling that there's a

history here that it's not just today, over a long period of time, these folks, these individuals and these groups are responsible for domestic terrorism for a large swath of this country. the president still hasn't spoken out about that despite all the corrections and the revisions of his statement from his staff and from the vice president. >> abby, as you beautifully point out, it's pretty clear here, and so is the logic. this president hammered the idea of calling terror and evil what it is. with this they argue that we didn't want to dig nye the names of these groups. it's logically inconsistent and morally vacant. why that was, we don't know. but the white house should say more about it. >> i think that parallel is exactly right. we need to name the problem of radical islamic terrorism on this. as abby pointed out, this is a flip side of a defiantly ahistorical approach to the presidency. you can't lead the nation if you

don't want to deal with the history or understand it. we've played footsie with this idea of white nationalists. white nationalist is white supremacist. >> in the next hour we'll talk to the mayor of charlottesville to find out what's going on down there. as caylee harden told us, the streets are back open, what's the mood? in the 8:00 hour we'll talk with a woman at the scene of that terrible car ramming. she knew the victim, heather heyer. we'll get perspective on what brought this young woman there and what she was about. >> so important to remember her name and what she was fighting for that day. is the growing criticism against president trump's response to everything that unfolded in charlottesville, a sign that one of his closest advisers could soon be on the outs. what it all means for steve bannon next. choose from the is turbo, es 350 or nx turbo

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he also has steve bannon around him who called breitbart which he founded a platform for the alt right and sebastian gorka who said this earlier this month. >> it's constant, oh, it's the white man, it's the white supremacist, that's the problem. no, it isn't maggie habber man, go to sin jab, go to the middle east, go to ". >> so what you've got here i think is a question of who was in the room when donald trump's remarks were being made, who encouraged him not to call out these groups by name. >> they say he spoke with a number of advisers. this wasn't out of haste. >> exactly. that's what's troubling, right? when you have an ethno nationalist wing driving a president's agenda, this is the kind of thing you get. breitbart has a complicated relationship -- i don't know why

i'm putting it politely -- with issues of difference, particularly with the african-american community, the muslim community. sebastian gorka wore a medal from a hungarian resistance group that gave an award to his father that has been associated with nazis in the past. this is not the kind of crew you typically see advising an american president. you have to believe the deliberate omissions by the president are driven at least in part by advisers who seem to have a vested interest in stoking these flames on the part of a portion of their base. again, it's the ethno nationalists. let's not be too polite, another name for white nationalists. >> abby, you laid it out the right way. we're not used to hearing any contextually sides dealing with people who had african-americans, jews, italians, catholics, a lot of

people they put on their lists. you don't see any limitation on condemnation of them. you also have a factual problem here. we talked about the logical one, why are you so intent on calling out muslims, but won't dig nye calling out nazis. it doesn't make any sense logically. the fact problem, why did david duke say this? listen to this. >> we're determined to take our country back. we're going to fulfill the promises of donald trump. that's who we believe in, why we voted to donald trump. he said he's going to take our country back. that's what we've got to do. >> now, let's give the best defense in this situation which is, hey, they are latching on to trump wrongfully, he didn't want them. but you would think, if that's the case, you would deny them most of all, if you were trump or anyone around him, because that's the last thing you'd want. then we get the kind of language we had here which is not doing that to say the least, abby.

>> it should be a pretty easy decision. david duke says that you support -- he supports donald trump, donald trump supports him. it should be easy to say that's not true, i reject his support, i disavow him. i think, chris, we should also point out here that white house aide sebastian gorka essentially glossing over white supremacy as a problem is a huge movement away from the norm. i think we cannot lose sight of it. >> he said go to sin gentleman, but we or not in sinja, we're in america. white supremacy is the number one terror threat we deal with in this country. >> we can't let that slide. that's not something acceptable in any other administration. also, i think this white house is dealing with, yes, the president was advised by a lot of people, he heard a lot of input. there were a lot of people in the white house advising him to

give a more fulsome response. you can see vice president mike pence did give a more fulsome response. but the president himself heard about what happened in charlottesville and heard about the various groups descending on the city, and he was the one who decided, we have to condemn all sides of this. there are a lot of folks within this white house, trump aides who believe there's not enough condemnation of the, quote, unquote, violent left as there is of the violent right. that is the wrong frame for this. i think what you're hearing from republicans outside the white house, folks like cory gardner, marco rubio, ted cruz, is there is no equivalency here. wrong is wrong, right is right and the white house needs to point that out. the president is the one making a decision not to do that. >> after the horrific paris terror attack on the bataclan, it was civilian donald trump who

treated when will president obama say the term islamic terrorism. think what you will about anthony scaramucci, however, in his first interview yesterday he called out bannon. he said he, being the president, has to move away from this sort of bannon bart. big picture here. cnn has reporting that bannon is on the outs with the president. could this hurt him more, ron? >> sure. i think -- look, as i said before, i don't think there's anything surprising about this reaction from the president. it's exactly the pattern, the template he has used before. i think what's different is this would have happened in february. you would not have seen nearly as much reaction from republicans as well as democrats. there's a cumulative weight of things he's said and done outside the boundaries, outside the norms of what you would expect from a u.s. president that i think has kind of created

a greater willingness to kind of criticize from the beginning. so we'll see. i think for bannon, he has been -- we talked before about being a continuum, not a bright line separating these kinds of groups from others who are uneasy about demographic change. that has been part of the mission of breitbart i think, to break down those boundaries as a kind of media institution. to the extent he continues to do that in the white house, i think he is more vulnerable now simply because there is this greater willingness to call out some of the things the president has said and done. earlier, you would have heard paul ryan that i can't comment that everything the president says, we need to get back to our agenda. now more republicans are saying this is not acceptable, outside the boundaries of what we'll accept from a u.s. president. >> the president who is not shy on twitter, just tweeted, headed to washington this morning. much work to do. focus on trade and military,

#maga, make america great again. still no word from the president about what he knows he's being asked to clarify this morning. appreciate it, panel. thank you very much. tomorrow on "new day" we'll have former white house communications director anthony scaramucci. what does he believe led to his dismissal, what does he believe led to this weird situation that we're dealing with right now with what the president did say. who would tell the president not to mention these types of groups, to go easy on them. a deadly terrorist attack in west africa, a gunman opened fire on a restaurant frequented by foreigners. the late breaking details are next. ♪

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we're following baking news. at least 18 people are dead after a terror attack in the west african nation of burkina

faso. a group of gunmen opened fire at a restaurant popular with foreign visitors. state need yeah reported security forces did kill two of the terrorists. there was no immediate claim of responsibility. >> the u.s. military is investigating an incident that killed two others. they say it was not due to enemy contact. the names of the casualties have not been released yesterday. "new york times" is reporting that special counsel bob mueller will reach out to the white house to set up interviews with administration officials including rooens priebus. mueller is asking for details about specific meetings as part of the russia investigation. america's top general in seoul, south korea, trying to defuse tension with north korea. does diplomacy have a chance? that's the message from all those around the president. we have the breaking details next.

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america's top general in south korea pushing for diplomacy but saying military options remain on the table in the escalating tensions with north korea. cnn's paula hancocks is live in seoul, south korea with breaking details. what do we know? >> reporter: chris, we're hearing from general dunford recently about a meeting he had with the south korean president, moon jay in. he s . he says nobody is looking for a war, but it's important for the military to have a viable military option if the other options don't work. he also referred to an op ed in the "wall street journal" from two top u.s. officials who basically said that it was more important to look now at the diplomatic, the economic issues

and the military option is there as well. this has been said once again by general dunford. also, we're hearing more about the military drills which will be starting on august 21st here in south korea. north korea through the state-run media says there's a danger that could lead to war, saying if there is a second korean war it will be a nuclear war. north korea is also always infuriated by these military drills by the u.s. and south korea. general dunford said they will go ahead. >> i would tell you that today when you look at the rhetoric coming out of north korea, the exercises are more important than ever. as general briggs talked about, there's a direct linkage between these exercises and our ability to effectively respond. >> reporter: what we're hearing from a number of u.s. diplomats that it's almost a pullback from the et rick from president trump last week saying diplomacy is the most important.

poppy, back to you. >> paula hancocks, thank you very much. joining us rear admiral john dir by and daily beast columnist, author of "north korea takes on the world," nice to have you both. the message from the administration this weekend is diplomacy above all. you had dunford coming out of that meeting today and saying the priority of the u.s. military is to support a peaceful resolution to the north korean crisis, is this the president trying to tamp down his own rhetoric from last week? >> i think a lot of what we've seen since the fire and fury comment has been senior cabinet officials and administration officials trying to put context ar tlund and absolutely push the diplomacy forward. you saw that with mattis last week, certainly seeing it from general dunford today in south korea. that's the appropriate approach

here. i think there's still room for diplomacy and economic pressure to work. i think they're approaching this the right way. to me it's a little like they're acting as sandpaper. >> gordon chang, you disagree, you read the op ed by secretary tillerson and secretary mattis, they say it's time to replace this. they went on to say the u.s. is willing to negotiate with pyongyang and talk about pressuring china to the ultimate extent. you say not going to work. why? >> they talk about strategic operability and don't discuss the money laundering, supply of equipment and technology for the ballistic missile program, the supplies for the nuclear weapons program and continual sanctions busting. i think they'll read this as more of the same. what they need to see in beijing in order to 3406 in a better

direction is the united states taking a new attitude. yes, it's diplomacy, but it's coercive diplomacy. it's got to say to the chinese, we can impose costs on you. >> they can slap a lot tougher sanctions on bigger chinese banks and cut a lot of their ability off and they haven't done that yet. admiral, to you, former director of national intelligence james clapper. here is what he said over the weekend. >> i'd love a denuclearized north korea, but as i learned when i went there and had pretty intense dialogue with them, that's a non-starter to them. that's their ticket to survival and i don't see any way they're going to give it up. so i think our thought process here ought to be accepting it and trying to cap it or control it. a denuclearized north korea, i'd

love to see it but i don't think it's in the cards. >> he said accept a nuclearized north korea. mcmaster has clearly said that's intolerable. where does that leave this administration? >> it puts them in a tough spot. the north has been racing towards these capabilities for a long time. arguably whether we want to admit it or not, accept it or not, they have a nuclear capability. we have to deal with that rea lt. how you do that diplomatically is for people smarter than me, although i associate myself with director clapper's comments. i think we have to look at it pragmatically and move forward. i also agree with gordon about pressure on china. china has been enabling the growth of the capability and not implemented sanctions the way they're supposed to. they have more influence than any other nation in the world on pyongyang, although they're finding some limits to that. he's right, they do need to

continue put more pressure on help solve this problem. ore to- >> there was a phone call between president trump and the governor of guam over the weekend. it was recorded and posted online, part of it was striking. listen to this. >> i have to tell you we're extremely famous, all over the world they're talking about guam and talking about you. you're going to give tourism -- your tourism, you're going to go up like tenfold. it looks beautiful. i'm watching, they're showing so much -- it just looks like a beautiful place. >> guam is beautiful. i don't think tourism levels in guam are the key concern right now, gordon chang. you hung your head while you were watching that. explain. >> that's pure trump. he's trying to give confidence

to the guamanians. but that's completely the wrong tone right now. to make it about himself, about how's famous. >> this week kim jong-un is supposed to approve the plan that they have to fire four missiles off the coast of guam. >> that's the reason why trump needs to have a much different tone, not only when it comes to guam, but also all the other players. the problem here is the united states hasn't been able to marshal the power. you see the problem in that call with the governor of guam. it's just symptomatic of a failure right now of the u.s. to have a much more disciplined approach. >> gordon chang, admiral kirby, thank you both. chris? >> the president is awake and tweeting, but he is not tweeting about the deadly violence at the hands of white supremacists. remember, when it's about calling out radical islamic

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the president is up and dweeting this morning talking about how to make care ka great again, talking about politics in alabama, but not talking about white supremacists, knee or nazis and the kkk. why won't he mention these specific hate groups in relation to what happened in virginia or in just in relation to the terror climate in america. these are the groups responsible for the most investigations into terror in this country. joining us, former vice chair from the national diversity coalition for president trump, brunell donald jay, and michael dyson, professor of sociology at georgetown and author of "tears we cannot stop, a sermon to white america." professor, we start with you, what is your analysis of what the president did and did not say? >> well, chris, thanks for

having me on this morning. an unfortunate opportunity that the president missed, a tragic reflection of the fact that he has a aided and ak bedded, whether conscious or not, the forces of white supremacy. we're not just talking about the violence and terror. it's the unconscious belief in the inherent inferiority of some, and inherent superiority of others. the president had the opportunity to say clearly and directly, i am not part of this, i do not have truck with this. when david duke, a white nationalist and separatist reaches out to support me, i repudiate his support. and i suggest in america we're not towing the line of white supremacy. he had the opportunity to say there is a violent history of terror exercised against many others, including especially african-american people, the

resurgence of neo naziism under his own administration suggests they find comfort and sucker in a president who refuses to be explicit. that was a missed opportunity. it's an expression of a deeply en current ched ideology of hate and announce toward merricks and others that needs to be specifically repudiated. >> brunell, you spent a lot of time fighting injustice. the idea that this is a problem on many sides, many sides said the president, suggesting those fighting against hateful people like the kkk are part of the problem. what's your take? >> good morning. god bless you and god bless america, counselor, thanks for having us here. what i'll say to you is this, i'll give you an exam. you come into your home and you see three kids fighting. the first thing is stop the fighting, then condemn the fighting and then get to the

bottom of what happened. that's the same thing here the president did. he disavowed any bigotry, hate of all kinds, any kind of extremism after the police, of course, broke all this up. the third he did was say, look, i'm going to send jeff sessions down here to investigate. he's done what a leader is supposed to do. we know that many of these extremis extremists, whether on the left or the right, they're media monsters. what do you do to a monster? you starve it, you don't feed it. i think the president has shown great leadership in showing that he's not going to let mib on the left who is a radical extremist tell him what to do, nor is he going to let anybody on the right who is extremist determine how he's going to lead. our president -- he basically got a situation where there's been so much division in the nation, and him blanketly

disavowing all bigotry and hatred i believe is the best thing he could have done for this nation. >> professor? >> first, let's shift the analogy. your metaphor is insufficient. let's talk about a burning house. you come to the house. one person is an arsonist trying to start the fire, another is a fireman trying to put it out. what trump did was essentially reenforce the status quo where the arson is fire bombing the house and another group of people are trying to put that people out. number two, martin luther king, junior was called an extremist by a group of alabama clergy men that led him to write his famous letter from a birmingham jail. he said at first i was disturbed to be categorized as an extremist, it's what you're an extremist for. abraham lincoln was an extremist for justice. john bunion was the same. if you're an extremist for justice, that's fine. if you're an extremist against

justice, if you're a white supremacist, there's no such thing as a difference between equivalency of black lives matter and black kids were being killed and people were being killed in the street versus white supremacists whose idea is to subvert and undermine the very patriotism that this country supposedly rests on. this notion that the president has to come and adjudicate between completing claims, black lives matter on one land and on the other hand white supremacists is nonsense. the reality is either you're part and parcel of an american society that reenforces justice and democracy or you're not. wite supremacists are in link with those who would undermine those in this country to fully grasp hold of it. donald trump unless he comes out to explicitly articulate his resistance is reenforcing white supremacist in our own time. >> if i may respond, i'll tell

you this. follow the law, one group, got a permit to go down and protest. that's the white nationalist group. you don't have to like anything they espouse, i don't. the thing is, they did follow our law. it was antifa and the other groups that came in and did not have a permit. the other thing that was an issue here, there was not sufficient police presence there. you've got white nationalists there, antifa and other extremist groups, there should have been a proper police presence there. i live in chicago. people protest all the time. our mayor makes sure there are police officers and different people there to protect. so this is the issue. white supremacists, black nationalists, everybody has a right to peacefully protest and you go and follow the law and get your permit, you should be under proper protection and should be able to exercise that free speech. these people went there to

protest the fact that robert lee's statue was being taken down. they had a right to be there. it was peaceful until antifa arrived. those are the facts. >> let me add to them. one is going there for the statue being brought down is one reason they were there. clearly the agenda was far more than just that. secondly, you know local police found it to be an unlawful assembly. they may have filed the permit, but once people began to assess the facts on the ground of why they were there and what they wanted to achieve, it was found to break the law of what is lawful assembly and that's why they wanted them to disperse. those are facts as to who was there to do the right thing versus the wrong thing. professor, the point about proper policing, that's a legitimate issue. we'll take it up with the mayor from charlottesville.

that's not really the context of this discussion. brunell, what doesn't make sense here is the nazis, the kkk, the white supremacists, they are about hate. that's what they're about. why -- >> absolutely. >> why assume that there's some type of equality between them and people fighting against them in this country. everybody in this conversation right now is targeted by these groups. >> but people have the right to freedom of speech -- excuse me, sir. >> one at a time. >> you spoke last brunell. >> brunell, go ahead. >> i was taught to respect my elders, sir. what i will say is they have the right to the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. again, you don't have to like what somebody is espousing in order for their rights to be protected.

we know human liberties begin to fail when spree dom of speech and freedom of assembly is taken away. i'm not here -- i don't want anything to do with any white nationalists for god's sakes, but what i'm telling you, as a lawyer we know in court all the time you may end up representing someone you don't agree with, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to assemble. >> nobody is arguing what their right is. just so they have a right doesn't make it right. this is about moral leadership from the president. professor, final word to you. >> this false equivalency introduced this morning is part and parcel of the problem. our guests -- our other guest's viewpoint reenforces the status quo. your point is that, look, there's no false equivalency between those opposed to hate, those articulate conception of american democracy that is full and vibrant versus those narrow and pinched in their conception of what it is. even