fail when spree dom of speech and freedom of assembly is taken away. i'm not here -- i don't want anything to do with any white nationalists for god's sakes, but what i'm telling you, as a lawyer we know in court all the time you may end up representing someone you don't agree with, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to assemble. >> nobody is arguing what their right is. just so they have a right doesn't make it right. this is about moral leadership from the president. professor, final word to you. >> this false equivalency introduced this morning is part and parcel of the problem. our guests -- our other guest's viewpoint reenforces the status quo. your point is that, look, there's no false equivalency between those opposed to hate, those articulate conception of american democracy that is full and vibrant versus those narrow and pinched in their conception of what it is. even a black person can

reenforce white supremacist ideology while people who are white can undermine it. it's not about white versus black, it's about right versus wrong. white supremacist ideology undercuts the value of american democracy for all of us. unless the president stands up to suggest this, this notion that black lives matter on one hand and white supremacist groups are equal, is paurt and parcel of what we are fighting in america, and we'll kwont to this problem. >> extremism on both sides is wrong. >> martin luther king, junior. extremists for good, extremists for evil. >> not evil on either side. >> this is an ugly situation, it demands conversation. i'm happy we're able to have some of it here this morning. thank you to you both. there's a lot of news to get after. the president is up and tweeting, going after people he

thinks he needs to be criticized. is it the neo nazis? no. why not? let's get after it. >> the car just plowed into an enormous crowd of people. >> people are concussed, bleeding everywhere. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. >> i understand what he meant by both sides. america is being moved into chaos by people on both sides. >> both sides are not using isis tactics, mowing people down with cars in the streets of america. >> the suspect appeared to be infatuated with nazi prop gan darks even in high school. >> we have no tolerance for hate and violence by white supremacists. >> we need the president to determine in this country that this will not be accepted, period. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning and welcome to

your "new day." alisyn is off, poppy harlow joins me. president trump refused to condemn hate groups by name, and that continues. he's up this morning. he's tweeting, but not talking about this. republicans and democrats are blasting the president's response to the deadly violence sparked by white supremacists in virginia. >> vice president mike pence is defending the president while at the same time saying what the president seems incapable of saying, at least yet, single out white supremacists, neo nazis and the kkk by name. meantime, the suspect accused of driving his car into that crowd and killing 32-year-old heather heyer will be arraigned this morning. let's begin with cnn's jeff zeleny in bridgewater, new jersey. you have more breaking details on what the president mans to do next. >> reporter: good morning, poppy. president trump is traveling to washington later this morning for a brief visit, interrupting

his working vacation here. i'm told by a white house official the president is expected to address the charlotte attack in some form. not holding the press conference, but planning on addressing this. when i asked the official in he planned to condemn the white supremacists directly, they said it's his call. >> we have no tolerance for hate and violence. white supremacists, neo nazis or the kkk. >> reporter: vice president mike pence doing publicly what president did did not do over the weekend, directly condemning the white supremacists biname after the deadly violence in charlottesville. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and hate red on many sides, on many sides. >> reporter: the vice president coming to the president's defense in the face of growing backlash over mr. trump's

response. >> president trump clearly and unambiguously condemned the bigotry, violence and hatred which took place. i take issue with the fact that many in the media spend more times criticizing the president's words than those perpetrating the violence to begin with. >> reporter: 36 hours after the protest began insisting president trump's comments decrying bigotry includes white supremacists, kkk, neo nazi and all extremist groups. top aides to the president also pushing back on the sunday shows. the president has been very clear. we cannot tolerate this kind of bigotry, this kind of hatred. >> the president not only condemned the violence and stood up at a time and moment when calm was necessary and didn't dig nye the names of these groups of people but rather addressed the fundamental issue. >> president trump ignored multiple questions from

reporters after a statement on saturday. >> mr. president, do you want the support of these groups, have you denounced them strongly enough? >> we aren't seeing leadership from the white house. >> reporter: the president's refusal to denounce the groups by name drawing fierce backlash from his own party. >> i would urge the president to dissuade them of the fact that he's sympathetic to their cause because their cause is hate, it's un-american, they are domestic terrorists and we need more from our president. >> call this white supreme sichl, white nationalism evil, let the country hear it, lets the world hear it. it's something that needs to come from the oval office and this white house needs to do it today. >> so we will find out in a few hours if the president decides to address this directly from the oval office when he's back at the white house. it's so interesting. we've seen the president be blunt and outspoken when he wants to be. on sunday, yesterday, only the fourth day of his presidency. he did not tweet at all.

he's tweeted three times this morning about a variety of topics, so far this attack is not one of them. >> not at all. it is confounding to say the least. jeff zeleny, thank you very much. the ohio man accused of plowing his car into the protesters killing 32-year-old heather heyer will be arraigned in a few hours. this morning we're hearing more from a teacher who claims he idolized hitler. kaylee hartung is with us. what more have you learned about this man? >> reporter: james alex fields, junior, will were rained a couple blocks from here. we expect this hearing to be very brief. he's being held in the charlottesville jail. he will appear via video teleconference. charges include one count of second degree murder among others. the doj and fbi have also opened a civil rights investigation

into that deadly vehicular assault. investigators will be looking to learn more about fields' past as they look for his motive. while his mother said shortly after learning of the charges of her son, that she never really discussed his political beliefs with him, he ear learning from his high school social studies teach ever, this is a man who had radical views on race, idolized hitler, infatuated studying world war ii. the pentagon confirms that in august of 2015 fields reported to basic training, didn't meet training requirements and left the service in december of that same year. we're also learning more about victim heather heyer, 32-year-old woman from the charlottesville area. there was a vigil planned last night but canceled due to perceived threats. mourningers continue to lay flowers on the makeshift memorial at the site of that crash. he was a paralegal for a

charlottesville law firm. her mother says she was someone always passionate about helping others. >> it was important to her to speak up to people who were not being heard, to speak up when injustices were happening. she saw in the lives of many of her african-american friends particularly and her gay friends that's call rights were not being given. >> reporter: the law enforcement community morning the loss of two of their own, a helicopter crashed as tefs serving the violence in the area on saturday. the barricades that were in the park over the weekend are gone, the streets are open. there's still a lot of healing to do in charlottesville. >> joining us is the mayor of charlottesville, michael signer. we hear the barricades are down. what do you believe the security

situation is in the city? >> well, let me just tell you about charlottesville first. we're still grieving. we're getting back to work now. this city is one of the most loving cities in the world, recently ranked america's most charming city, a city whose spirit and culture of generosity is supported by this spirit of diversity and tolerance that we have here. we have a major office of the international rescue committee, for instance, several hundred immigrate, political refugees who have settled here. we love them. they happen to mostly be muslim. we have a large historic african-american population, the dialogue on race where the city leads to get together and talk about challenging issues in the past. because of those two things, our generosity and diversity, we're one of the most successful

cities in the country, we just had 50 biotech companies launch ag organization here. my point of saying this, if they figured they had a city to intimidate away from progress, intimidate away from the truth, they picked the wrong city. if anything, we'll come together and press the gas on all the values that have made us a success story, and i think we're seeing that. as we speak, there were 600 rallies around cities and virginia in support of charlottesville against this wave of hatred and intelligence and outright bigotry. groups like nazis and the kkk in our streets feeling comfortable to show their faces? that came to a head in weekend. i think the nation as one rose up and just turned the page on it and it happened here in

charlottesville. >> what do you make of the president this morning continuing to not address specifically who was there and what they did, calling out nazitinazis and white supremacists? do you think he still needs to do that, or is the moment gone for him? >> i've already spent enough time talking about donald trump. he is our president, with respect. but i think it speaks for it sell. he had his moment. these are times for leadership. he already seems -- thinking about working families and solutions which i have to do all the time as a mayor of a city like this, put action on the table, get things done. he had his opportunity and he whiffed, and i think that speaks for itself. >> let me ask you about something else while i have you here. the situation down there was anticipated to be one thing. the police assessed it as something else, and then it grew into the ugly conflagration that we saw there. do you believe you had the

resources in place to deal with that situation, or do you believe you were playing catchup from jump? >> let me tell you a couple things. for months this was anticipated to be a very large gathering, and those numbers, those predictions kept on growing and growing and growing. we had on the ground here the largest deployment of law enforcement professionals in virginia since 9/11. as i understood it, almost 1,000 officers were on the ground. we're a city of 50,000 people surrounded by a county of 120,000. so an area of a couple hundred thousand. second thing, because the 234u78 bers were looking like they were going to get so large and so violent, so armed, our city manager made a deposition last monday to move the valley to a much larger location where the level of policing could be easier to maintain. it was a park within city borders of about 100 acres where you could have had two separate

groups, protesters and counterprotesters. unfortunately, this is. >> reporter: regrettable in my view, a federal judge at the 11th hour on friday night, the late hours, 9:00 at night about, right before the day of the rally, enjoined, prevented the city manager from moving the rally to what he thought was that much safer area where those -- all those hundreds of law enforcement could have had an easier time dealing with people who clearly we know now came here for violence, came here for en sitement. it was what it was. they were forced to declare an unlawful assembly because there was so much violence. before the rally even got started -- our job as a government is to set the conditions so people can peaceably assemble, peaceably express themselves. they didn't even allow that to

happen for their own rally. >> mr. mayor, thank you for the perspective on that. it's one of the continuing questions. as you start to see what often happens where people don't just condemn the hate, they counter it. as those results come up, let us know. >> i'll tell you a story right now -- okay. that's where it's going to go. >> thank you, mr. mayor. >> we'll have the mayor back to do just that. let's bring in cnn political analyst john avlon and karoun demirjian, and cnn's ron brownstein. we learned the president will speak about charlottesville later today. if he does choose to call out the racists, even like his own vice president has and his daughter has, white supremacists, kkk, neo nazis, is it too late? do you judge someone by what they say first? >> i'd say it's better late than

never. >> you just heard the mayor say he had his moment and he whiffed. >> and he did. to not call out neo nazis and the kkk and instead to try to broaden the criticism with a moral equivalence that even neo nazi sites took as validation of their perspective. there's a larger problem here that i think the president needs to take ownership of the he wants to be leader of the nation rather than leader of a political faction, normally the way we've seen these works, we saw it the militia movement gets energy from democrats when they feel in opposition. what's stunning about what's hang now is these numbers are rising now with a republican president who some of them feel have empowered them. you heard david duke say it from

the rally yesterday. it is never too late to condemn hate, but trump and his administration can do a lot of soul searching because a couple of band-aid tweets aren't going to deal with the problem or are seen by these groups as to have been empowered and given them lye sense. >> karoun difficult mirjian, it would be interesting to hear the president even saying why in the first place, maybe owning a little bit of that. that is not what we have ever seen him do before. it is more likely that he will take a page out of what was given to the president, that he was going to attack us and everybody else and suggest he did something wrong. >> right. the president is not the best at apologizing by saying i'm sorry i was not communicating properly or correctly, assuming he is in agreement with everybody else in the gop that's criticizing him. it wouldn't be that hard to say, i'm sorry, i'm not choosing the right words. he doesn't do that as a matter of course.

you've seen his surrogates have been pointing the the media. it's many people in his own party calling him out with the strongest terms and say you need to name these people and see what they are. it's not doing anybody any favors to not say the words neo nazis or white supremacists, please do. if the president released a statement where he does heard those words, it means he heart those criticisms. if he doesn't, he's doubling down and making this more about him than the country. there's a lot in that statement he made on saturday that would have been completely laudable. it was the context in which it was presented by adding that on many sides and then the self references to him and barack obama and everything else that took it away from what the message could have been. if he 45had only gone the one sentence further to say no, these are the groups that are the problem. >> i think as karoun just brought up, what isn't getting as much attention is when he tried to, it seems like, absolve

himself awful any blame when he said not donald trump, not barack obama, as if he didn't start his political life, if you will, years before the campaign on birtherism. >> sure. whatever he says now and i think inevitably he'll go further. he communicated exactly what he meant to communicate. we can say that because he has done this before. this is exactly what he did around the david duke issue the sunday before the biggest concentration of southern primaries during the republican contest where he sent the message by what he didn't say and only after the fact, after that message had been sent and received, did he kind of give in to the bipartisan condemnation and mouth the words that everybody was demanding. by the way, what you heard from the marry thought was an incredibly precise encapsulation of the central fault line in american politics. we were talking about whether the trump vote was driven more by economic or demographic and

racial unease. what you saw was a mayor talking about a community, a university town that prizes tolerance and is thriving economically with the big biotech emerge earns. that's what's happening in many urban centers. outside of that you have large groups that feel completely left out. it was there that trump drew his strongest support. while there may be a small percentage of people who align themselves with the views of the kkk or the nazi party, what you have seen is a reluctance on his part to isolate those groups because there's a continuum of americans. and from the beginning he has appealed most strongly to them. >> i've got to tell you, just from where he grew um, i can't believe the president of the united states can look at his twitter feed and look at people supporting him, how they're supporting white supremacy, and not come out, even if he was

somewhat shamed into it. and say these people need to stay away from me, this is not what i'm about. we'll see. thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. calling for this to happen, it's not just about the media, not about the left, not about the right. it's about a whole group coming at the president. with eel talk to lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. we'll talk about what is simply not okay in america next.

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your entire dvr. top networks. and live sports on the go. included with xfinity tv. xfinity, the future of awesome. laums on both sides of the aisle calling on president trump to denounce white supremacists and other extreme groups like the kkk and neo nazis. will he do that today? joining me now democratic senator ben cardin. nice to have you hear, senator. we've learned the president will talk about what happened in charlottesville today, unclear if he'll denounce the white supremacists by name. what is your response to what

the president has chosen to say and not say thus far. >> poppy, first, it's good to be with you. the president has to be clear, this is about moral clarity. what happened in virginia was a tragedy, an act of terror by white supremacists. he needs to be very specific about those responsible for that. >> if he does it today, sir, is that enough? the question becomes the measure of the man, the president who represents this country to the world and did he mean what he said at the -- right away or what he later says after this condemnation from members of both parties? >> there's no question it's a missed opportunity by the president. the things he does not say or the things he leads off the table, look, the president of the united states needs to be very, very clear about how we

will not tolerate white supremacists or the kkk or neo nazis. these are hate groups. he's got to be clear about that. now if he changes, that's fine. at least he's made it clear, but it was a missed opportunity and we see this happening way to f off. >> he reads twitter all the time. you have the daily stormer saying his comments were good, he loves us all, refused to answer a question about white supremacists. no condemnations at all. when asked he -- >> you can't help what other people will say, but the president needs to separate himself from these groups and he missed that opportunity. he's got to be very, very clear

about who is responsible for the tragedy in virginia, our hearts go out to the familition that were victimized by this act of terror. he's got to call what it is. he missed that opportunity. moving forward, i would hope that the president would be much more sensitive to these types of issues and show leadership. i must tell you, i have not seen that at all. i didn't see it during the campaign, have not seen it during his first months as president, this clarity about our values in this country. he has certainty distanced himself from the traditional values of this country. >> do you think this is being pushed -- not to absolve him, but do you believe there are those around him pushing this. you had former white house communications director sca

scaramucci saying bannon bart stuff and then this earlier this month. >> it's this constant, oh, it's the white man, the white supremacist. that's the problem. no, it isn't maggie haberman. go to sinjar, go to the middle east and tell me what the real problem is today. go to ". >> are there people close to the president making this increasingly problematic. the president is responsible for the policies, the development of the administration. his policy on immigration, his policies related to violence, shows the lack of commitment to the values of america. and that's extremely disturbing. i don't blame the people around him. >> his lack of commitment to the values of america. before we go, senator, just as an american citizen, how do you feel this monday morning?

>> first of all, i'm saddened what happened in virginia. this is a tragic moment in our count country. i want to see our leaders speak out against this hate and be willing to identify those responsible and take action and make it clear that this is not acceptable in this country. it's not about political support of any one group. it's about what this country stands for. the people who are our elected leaders, the president of the united states has to be clear about standing up against this type of hatred. >> we'll see if he does that today. thank you very much, senator cardin. we appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you. so you heard from a democrat senator there. what do members of the president's own party want to hear from him today? do they think it's too little too late? republican senator todd young joins us next.

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cnn has learned that

president trump is expected to address the deadly violence in charlottesville today. so far the president has not denounced white supremacist, but did campaign on calling out terrorists by name. joining us is republican senator todd young, served as a marine corps intelligence officer. good to have you on the show. >> thanks so much for having me this morning. >> we have one threat at home, another threat abroad in the form of north korea. let's discuss them both. what do you want to hear from the president today about charlottesville and the people involved there among those white supremacists? >> chris, thanks for this cover this charlottesville tragedy. let me begin by offering my condolences and prayers to the family of the young lady who lost her young life and the two officers in blue who were brave in trying to protect all those

assembled. i can speak for myself and say such hatred, bigotry, evil which was exhibited by these white supremacists groups is not only un-american, it is anti ameri n american. it grates against all we stand for. we need to celebrate our diversity which makes us stronger. i want to be unambiguous about that. moving forward, i think all of us from the local level on up need to continue to speak out against such senseless acts of violence. >> should the president speak out today or do you think it's too late? >> the president has spoken. i'm not going to get into the business of trying to understand his at the same times -- >> even when it's about something like this? this isn't about job numbers or

kim jong un or who is the bigger tough guy. there we can get what the president can sometimes do stylistically and whether you like it or not is subjective. this isn't subjective. this isn't a calling out hate. there is no equivalence between the people down there protesting in favor of hate and against hate. the president seemed to not recognize that. we don't know why. but it's not something that should just be dismissed as sty style. >> i share your conviction and your sentiment and the sentiment from the hoosiers irpt. there's no place for this sort of action, this violence and this sentiment in america. i'll be unambitious about that. irpt all hoosiers. they sent me to washington, d.c. to represent them on the issues most important to them. one of them is making sure that everyone feels respect ed and

represented in this country. i will forcefully act on their beha behalf. >> senator, what you say about charlottesville is not being called into question. the hoosiers should feel good in terms of what they wanted from you on that. what the president says, we'll have to wait and see. he certainly has a situation to make up for. let's move now to north korea. we hear that dunford is pushing for diplomacy. there is this rhetorical imbalance that military options are on the table and secretary of state says diplomacy is where we want to go, we don't want regime change, not looking forward. how do you see this? >> the two are not only compatible, but it's necessary the two co-exist. we need a credible threat of military force on one hand and then exercise vigorous diplomacy on the other.

sanctio sanctions are very important. i'm very proud of secretary tillerson and ambassador haley who just sat through the most robust sanctions regime in my lifetime against the north koreans. a sanctions regime which can be further ratcheted up must be credited with capability of military force. it's important general dunford and the rest of our military continue to increase not just our readiness through military exercises off the south korean peninsula and within the peninsula itself and surrounding areas, but also by moving other military hardware into the area, that includes our special operators, that includes our anti-missile defense. there are even some conservative elements of the south korean government calling for re-employment of weapons in

south korea, removed back in the '90s. all these things will send a message together that the pressure campaign is ramping up and hopefully bring this totalitarian monstrous dictator, jim jong un, to the table so we can peacefully resolve this situation. >> i appreciate the explanation on this issue. it's complex, but it matters to the american people. as there are more developments, please come back and help explain it to the people here on "new day." thank you for calling out hate for what it is in charlottesville. >> thanks so much, chris. tomorrow on "new day," we're supposed to have former white house communications director anthony scaramucci on the show to get his take on what is this now growing question of who told the president -- was this about him or the people around him telling him not to mention the kkk in charlottesville. >> looking forward to that. meantime, breaking news, a massacre unfolding in west africa.

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unknown. government statement claims two terrorists were killed. skpeeshl counsel bob mueller is reaching out to the white house so set up interviewing with current and former administration officials including rooens priebus. he's reportedly asking for details about specific meetings as part of his russia investigation. so two nfl players kicked off the preseason by sitting down during the national anthem. seahawks defensive lineman michael bennett stayed on the bench, referenced the attack in virginia saying he wants to continuously push a message against injustice in society. on saturday, marshawn lynch did the same thing, sitting on aal couper behind his teammates. both players had publicly voiced support for then san francisco quarterback colin kaepernick who was criticized for kneeling during the anthem. kaepernick remains an unsigned free agent. >> look, athletes are who kids

look to oftentimes, teens, kids, adults, for guidance. right or wrong, they're voicing whether they should be have to be these symbols or not, they're choosing to be these symbols. >> there was a big debate about it last time. you're there to play football, it is, as poppy is saying, if there is a national audience, it's time to speak your conscience. this will be the debate we'll hear about. >> we will for sure. he's not known to pull punches. president trump has been silent this morning about what happened, the tragedy in charlottesville despite all the criticism from both sides. why? we'll dive into that ahead. ♪ hey, is this our turn? honey...our turn? yeah, we go left right here. (woman vo) great adventures are still out there. we'll find them in our subaru outback. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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cnn has learned that president trump is going to

speak out about the violence in charlottesville. >> we have no tolerance for hate and violence. white supremacists, neo nazis or the kkk. >> why didn't the president say that? will he say it today? if he does, is it too late? political commentator simoned. sanders is with us. if the president comes out and says of course i meant the white supremacists and kkk. of course icon dem them. is there satisfaction in that? >> if the president comes out today and uses the term white supremacist, kkk, white nationalists, neo nazis, i think his problems will not completely go away, but the tide will begin to turn. words matter and actions matter as well. folks will be looking for the president of the united states and this administration to take additional concrete actions. we know the doj has already said

that they are going to investigate what happened. i would propose that steve bannon also needs to be looked at and the president needs to make changes with his staff. we need to wait to hear what he has to say. i'm cautiously optimistic, chris. >> this original many sides statement, where did it come from? we heard from the ag jeff sessions when asked if there should be any equivalence drawn between the kkk and people down there, protesting against the kkk. he said absolutely not. >> right. i certainly agree with the attorney general. it sounded like when you read the whole statement by the president, that the written statement was very good. it looked like one of those off-script additions he does so

often. i would note you said action and words. most important action taken so far was almost at midnight saturday, once it had been known that the driver had crossed state lines, presumably thaches that was an important factor. proceed with the civil rights investigation. rick montcastle is not a political appointee, 20-year profession professional. worked with him when i was attorney general of virginia. this is in very good hands. essentially everything the federal government can do. turning to the words i would expect to hear stronger language like we heard from the vice president coming out of the president, as we get here into the beginning of the business week. and i think there's every reason to expect that. i think some of the expersions cast on steve bannon, that's to

paste somebody they would like a glove on. >> i would disagree. >> okay. disagree. the president needs to take stronger steps here as the week goes on. >> chris, steve bannon has -- >> what's your disagreement? >> steve bann nochlt, when he was over breitbart a year ago, he said he was proud that breitbart was the platform for the alt right. you played audio from sebastian gorka moments ago where he basically said it's not the white supremacists. look at these brown people in the middle east. it's not expursions that have been cast. these are words that these people have used. they're seemingly advising the president of the united states and that is jarring and concerning to me. this is the people's house. white supremacy has no place in our administration. >> ken, what's your sense of -- >> i certainly agree with that. go ahead, chris. >> what's your sense, ken, of where it came from?

god forbid you were ever in that situation and you bring your advisers around you and say here is what's going on. the kkk went to march because they're upset about the robert e. lee statue coming down. it got out of control and somebody came in with a car and this kid is dead now. let's not call out the k can kk by name. who says that? where does that idea come from in your mind? if that is a bannon, miller, gorka, how do you insulate them from criticism for helping a president arrive at that kind of conclusion? >> i don't know anything about gorka. i know about steve bannon. i disagree about the comments made about him. i think you expect presidents to start, even in serious situations, fairly measured, expressing concern for the people injured and working your way through. remember, he is on top of the prosecution that happens with the civil rights investigation.

if you look back to the shooting in south carolina, the tragedy where you had dylan roof shooting in a black church, president obama's initial comments were much more measured than as he went on days later. it was a very appropriate escalation by the president -- obama, i'm talking about. i think we should reasonably expect to see that. >> i don't think it's sized up like this. >> we had a -- >> hold on, simone. the president took a long time here. it wasn't as if as the violence was unfolding the president came out and said let's make sure it stops and let the police do their job. they had a long time here to figure out what it was. he knew what the conditions were on the ground when he spoke to it. he just didn't use the words. he said on many sides. if you want to defend bannon, i think you need to put meat on the bones. breitbart was deafening in how it covered charlotte. they didn't get after this.

bannon does have a history. whatever you want to assign to him, you certainly can't assign what breitbart is doing. >> one of the problems with a group like this, they use mantles that start to pollute everything around it and everything that it touches. understandably, for people who are part of that, that's the case. but white supremacists, neo nazis, this all turned violent. frankly, i think they wanted it to turn violent. i think they're wanting the attention they're getting now. >> that's how white supremacists operate. >> that's right. look how many people were there. 1,000 people if, police estimates are right, that came from all over the country to participate in this. and far more than that protesting, objecting, et

cetera. i think that's more representational of america, certainly is of verirginia. and the arrests that were made -- >> chris, if i may -- >> only one from out of state. this was attracting trash from all over the place. >> let me be very clear. what happened friday, saturday in charlottesville was a direct result of folks being upset that a statue, a monument of the confederacy was going to come down. when pre president trump took the podium on saturday, a woman was dead, murdered by white supremacists, neo nazis. he did not use those words, that terminology. you have white supremacists, neo nazi sympathizers in the white house in sebastian gorka and steve bannon. this is not just rhetoric. >> that's an outrageous overstatement. >> that is not an outrageous overstatement n germany -- wait, chris n germany, there are no statues and monuments of nazi soldiers. children do not go to schools

named after nazi generals. in the united states of america, our children walk through parks, go down streets who in present day took up arms against the government that would be considered treasonous because they owned people that looked like me in this country. there is no overstatement here. >> no, that's not what this is about. >> that's what the robert e. lee -- >> this is an excuse for a bunch of racists and neo nazis to get together. that was a local blogger who got a permit. this guy from ohio cares about robert e. lee? nobody from ohio cares about robert e. lee. >> you're going to dismiss this as though this is not bigger and more serious than just charlottesville? charlottesville is an egregious symptom of what is wrong -- >> you want to jump from one thing to another. >> i'm not jumping to conclusions. i'm being factual.

if you would speak to the heart of these things, we could -- >> no. no. >> let's get a point of clarification. what are you disagreeing with, exactly? >> apparently white supremacist. >> you know what white supremacists is about, what robert e. lee evokes. that's what they use for the basis for coming to gather. what is your point of disagreement exactly? >> well, my point of disagreement is that that was an excuse to bring these groups together. the local blogger who got the permit to protest the removal of the robert e. lee statue then blew this up. that was an excuse. >> and now someone's dead. >> look at how they got the permit. can i finish, simone? can you just shut up for a moment? >> you don't get to tell me to shut up on national television. >> hold on. >> i'm sorry. under no circumstances do you get to speak to me in that matter. you should exhibit some decorum. >> both of you stop for a second. simone, ken?