>> i -- >> you define it. what about the old left -- excuse me. what about the alt left that came charging at the alt-right? do they have any semblance of guilt? let me ask you this. what about the fact they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? do they have any problem? i think they do. as far as i'm concerned, that was a horrible, horrible day. wait a minute. i'm not finished. i'm not finished, fake news. that was a horrible day -- [ inaudible question ] >> i watched those closely, more than you watched it. and you have a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. and nobody wants to say that. but i'll say it right now.

you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent. >> reporter: do you think what you call the alt left is the same as neo-nazi? >> those people, all of those people -- excuse me, i've condemned neo-nazis. i've condemned many different groups. but not all of those people were neo-nazis. believe me. not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of robert e. lee. this week it's robert e. lee. i notice that stone wall jackson is coming down. i wonder, is it george washington next week and is it thomas jefferson the week after. you have to ask yourself where does it stop? >> reporter: do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office? >> i think they've gotten better or the same -- look, they've

been frayed for a long time. you can ask president obama about that. he'd make speeches about it. but i believe that the fact that i brought in -- it will be soon, millions of jobs. you see where companies are moving back into our country, i think that's going to have a tremendous positive impact on race relations. what i'm saying is this. you had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs. it was vicious and horrible, and it was a horrible thing to watch, but there is another side. there was a group on this side. you can call them the left. you called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. so you can say what you want, but that's the way it is. i do think there's blame, yes. i think there's blame on both sides. you look at both sides. i think there's blame on both sides. and i have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. you're changing history. you're changing culture. and you had people, and i'm not talking about the neo-nazis and the white nationalists, because

they should be condemned totally. you had many people in that group other than neo-nazis and white nationalists. and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. now, in the other group, also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and the helmets and the baseball bats. there were people in that rally, and i looked the night before. if you look, they were people protesting very quietly. the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. i'm sure in that group there were some bad ones. the following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people. neo-nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. but you got a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and legally protest. i don't know if you know. they had a permit. the other group didn't have a permit.

so i only tell you this. there are two sides to a story. i thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country. a horrible moment. >> by the way the people the president was speaking about who were quietly protesting on friday night, those were the hundreds of people carrying torches, chanting "jews will not replace us' chanting "blood and soil". reaction has been sharp with top republicans. paul ryan tweeted this bigotry is counter to all the country stands for. this can be no moral ambiguity. former g.o.p. presidential candidate john kasich, let's get real. there is no moral equivalency to -- joining us in the panel sara sidner and joseph pena.

does it make sense to you that the president of the united states is praising a bunch of good people who are out there on friday night who are those people with tiki torches chanting horrible things saying there were bad ones the next day, but friday night, those were the good ones when we saw what they were chanting? >> the answer is no. who are these good people he's talking about? who in that crowd said good unifying things? they went after jews, gays, they chanted horrible things and scared the hell out of people in charlottesville and anyone watching that. people were tweeting. they were scared. people who have been through this before are terrified and their children are now afraid. >> scott jennings was saying if you were a good person who happened to go out there because you were really concerned about the tearing down of the monument and you show up and there's hundreds of people chanting

against jews, if you're a good person, wouldn't you turn around and go home? >> one could hope you would go home. i guess i want to -- the good people that were just upset about the statue coming down, robert e. lee was a general of the confederacy. earlier today the president invoked the name of thomas jefferson and george washington. let's be clear george washington owned slaves and he took up arms against the british to enslave people, but he freed his slaves at the end. robert e. lee was fighting to preserve the america that george washington and founding fathers created. by the time robert e. lee popped up, it was no longer socially acceptable. slavery wasn't. america had decided who we wanted to be. we fought the civil war. the union won. i think we also decide who had we wanted. there have been deciding moments where america decided who we wanted to be. marriage equality on down the line. and so i thought we knew who we wanted to be. we could definitely go back, make america great again.

i think people out there will tell you this is not your grandmother's civil rights movement. i want to be really clear that folks were protesting taking down the statue of a general of the confederacy. a statue that invokes hate to some people, invokes terror. a statue that it embodies the worst of the american people. and if you're one of those really good folks that came out because you believe in monuments of the confederacy, in germany kids don't attend schools named after nazi generals. they don't walk down streets named after nazi generals, play in parks. but in the united states of america our kids walk down streets play in parks and go to schools named after generals of the confederacy. every single day. that's not normal. this is where we are today. >> it's illegal in germany to have a statue of hitler or any nazi symbolism. anywhere on display. it's illegal. >> i think we have to say a couple of things. the first is that the past that you're talking about, this type

of hate that we see, the white supremacy that is shocking the conscious of the american people, some of them, you realize that that was way before donald trump. i mean, you understand his father was arrested in the kkk rally. this goes back generations. >> madison square gardens was filled with nazi sympathizers. 1939. >> correct. so this is not a new phenomenon for this country. we thought we crossed a bridge. we understood when barack obama got elected, we weren't led to the promised land, but we believed we made progress in this country. there are many of us sitting here whose parents, fathers or mothers, they had to go to segregated schools or fought for the success and progress that we have today. my father used to carry around a picture of emmett till in his wallet. you went through that and thought we made it to a place where we maybe could turn the page.

donald trump is a morally bankrupt individual. i think we all knew that. i think individuals who supported him knew that. and so you can't expect moral clarity from someone who lacks that. ethos. more importantly, and this is where the trouble comes in with my republican friends, black and white, business people, the good people who still support donald trump is that at the end of this, people will not remember the words of our enemies. but they will remember the silence of our friends. and until people, good people, begin to stand up against this type of hate, and bigotry and rebuke the president, what you saw from paul ryan, that wasn't a strong statement. he didn't even evoke donald trump's name. we need people to have fortitude who understand what this country is about, donald trump doesn't represent that. >> yesterday you were saying it was good the president made the statement he did. i'm wondering today when you heard him essentially revert back to what he said saturday, what did you think?

>> first of all, i didn't think what he said saturday was wrong. i think what he said saturday was appropriate. i think what he said saturday denounced hatred, bigotry, and violence which was appropriate. it was the appropriate response that he gave. and it was similar to the appropriate response that president obama gave after the white supremacists clearly bigoted dylann roof shot up the people in charleston. so when he reverted back to that i thought it was appropriate. the thing -- >> doesn't, i mean, just saying generalized hatred and bigotry clearly in donald trump's mind, he was talking also about counterprotesters. >> but i think if you listen to what he said today, he was talking about the violence. >> right. he's saying there was violence on both sides. >> only one side killed someone. >> he wasn't -- >> this is the problem. i want to show you respect, and i apologize. >> you're not when you cut me off. go ahead and continue. >> i will. this is an important comment. we've having an amazing discussion in an amazing platform.

in front of the world. i cannot allow you to remark that there is a moral equivalence between those people who believe in bigotry and those people who believe in injustice and justice and equality. >> i didn't say there was a moral equivalency to those people. what i am saying is what i believe the president was saying when he said many sides referring to the violence that he saw on both sides, meaning, i -- i haven't seen two racists fight each other. if you're a racist and i'm a racist, we have no reason to fight each other. we have no reason to curse each other out. >> i don't know. how about let's -- how about the alt-right. >> i'm just asking you, paris, the president asked a reporter the reporters asked him about the alt-right, he said you define alt-right. i am concerned that the president looks like a white supremacist sympathizer on the podium today. >> i think -- >> you don't? >> i don't, but i asked someone today to define what the alt-right was.

>> white supremacy in khakis is my definition. >> i think that's a very broad definition. >> why can't i tackle white supremacy? why -- because you understand -- you do understand that the remnants of white supremacy permeates itself into the systems of oppression in this country. >> and they predate donald trump. >> that's fine. >> they predate barack obama. they predate george w. bush. they have been in this country for a very long time. >> aren't we supposed to be getting better? aren't we supposed to be evolving away from that? not encouraging it. i want to speak to something you said about the fact that you thought that his comments on saturday for fine. you may have and i think that's your absolute right. there are others who felt it was fine. even though he didn't specifically disavow -- >> were president obama's remarks after charleston fine? >> let me finish. >> we have a new president.

are you not proud of your new president. he is now in power. >> it's funny how i can't go back, but you can. >> i'm not going backwards. >> you can go back on past things and bring up things from -- go back to george washington. go back to thomas jefferson. >> let's talk about charlottesville you know what barack obama did do he called the victim's family. donald trump hasn't even called the lady's family who died. >> i'll go backwards with you. if you want to talk about charleston, let's. you know what barack obama did do. he picked up the phone and called the victims and the victims' families. donald trump hasn't called the mother of the young lady run over. you want to go backwards? amazing grace. we can talk about what barack obama did. show me what donald trump is doing to heal the country? >> let's go back and talk about president obama's response just after charleston. not at the funeral which i thought was great. >> i'm not going to allow you to create a equivalency between what president obama did and donald trump did saturday and today. that is what you're saying. how is it different? it is different because donald trump, he literally stood up there in front of the world today and let us know exactly where he stood.

he's still the person that started the racist birther movement. he's a white supremacisasacist sympathizer. >> did not the president today basically show that the statement he made yesterday was just a lie, just something written for him? >> no. if you listen and if you read it, he said -- he disavowed them. he said it repeatedly. >> he said neo-nazi, kkk, and white supremacists, but today -- >> isn't that what you wanted him to say? >> today he reversed and went back to -- >> we haven't heard from joseph. >> i think we're going down the wrong path and it's easy for us to sit here and try to go about and parse things for the purposes of this conversation. what happened or didn't happen with barack obama is irrelevant. i'm a member of the republican party because i believe we're supposed to be the party of personal accountability. from that standpoint, we're not the party of they started it or

did a worst job. whether it's true or not true. we're not supposed to be silting here making those comparisons in my opinion. again, when we look at this, i look at it from a standpoint of tomorrow i'm supposed to take my daughter to a play land. i have to try to explain to her what is happening in this country. and i'm from a standpoint, i think that it's all resulting from the fact that we've been having a very misguided conversation on race for a very long time. >> what you talking about? >> we have to -- i have to get a break in. john mccain just tweeted saying there's no moral equivalency between racist and americans standing up to defy hate and bigotry. the president of the united states should say so. plenty more to talk about including the president's claim he's all about waiting for the facts before he speaks. later the thoughts of the gold star father who candidate went out of his way to disparage. he joins us ahead. ♪ buried just under the surface,

the answer to it all. ♪ we want to need each other. ♪

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more on the president's press conference this morning. returning to blaming both sides for the violence in virginia. he insisted there are two sides to every story and argue that alt left protesters came charging at the alt-right protesters and said they didn't have a permit. even though the at alt right did have a permit. the president also said that some very fine people were at the white supremacists rally. here's what he said this african afternoon. >> i wanted to make sure unlike most politicians, that what i said was correct. not make a quick statement. the statement i made on saturday, the first statement was a fine statement. but you don't make statements that direct unless you know the fact. it takes a little while to get the facts. you still don't know the facts.

and it's a very, very important process to me. and it's a very important statement. so i don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. i want to know the facts. >> back with the panel. the idea that president trump wants to know facts before he speaks, i mean, let's just be real here. that is absolute -- >> ridiculous. >> bull. that is bunk. paris, you cannot say that this president. this man lies more than any president in modern history. remember the terrorist attack in manila that wasn't a terrorist attack? >> there's a difference, anderson. years after -- >> did he not call out a terrorist attack in the philippines that turned out not to be a terrorist attack? when you want to be a specific about something where there is violence, don't you think you want to wait for facts? not in this case. >> this case is different, anderson. >> why? >> how so? >> i agree. how? >> because i think -- >> i think this is -- i agree

with paris. i think this is more plain and simple. i think about the country who the united states of america is. this is about hate and bigotry versus what we want to be as a country. this is about white supremacy versus the rest of us. this is about oppression versus the rest of us who died and gave up so much so we can have freedoms. i think it was very easy for the president of the united states to be on the right side of history. i don't understand why that's so difficult to be on the right side of history, paris. that's all i want from any of us. >> i think today he's said exactly what he felt and we all saw it. the day before -- the day before it was a wooden, very scripted, very stiff, no emotion. today the emotions were out. >> someone called it a hostage video. >> that's what it looked like. take a look at what some of the neo-nazis are saying about his speech. one of them just put a new statement out that just came into my e-mail.

he said trump defends charlottesville's nazis. against jew media lies. condemned anti terrorists. we will not be blackmailed into condemning his base. that's how neo-nazis see trump. they're clapping and saying he's giving us a thumbs up. y'all, we're good. >> actually, they're clapping for you because you're buying into it. >> take it back. >> you just gave them a platform and read their entire message -- >> no, i didn't. you should see their message. their message is strong and goes out to hundreds of thousands of people. i'm not giving them a platform. their platform exists -- >> the idea -- >> for the record, she didn't say the twitter account or the name. i am telling you that this is how white supremacists and neo-nazis are reading the president's comments? >> no, they're not. >> how do you know? >> i don't. >> have you talked to them. >> i haven't. >> i've spent time with them.

this past week. >> congratulations. >> i'm glad you spent time with racists. anderson, i'd like to comment here. >> i'm interested in what they think and what they're saying so we can learn how to try and change minds and bring people together. >> that's great. i'm proud you talked to racists. this is the point i've been trying to make. which i haven't been able to make because nobody lets me talk on this show or panel. the point is this is different. when you are talking about something as so divisive as the racial issues that we have in this country, the president wanted to take the time to make sure you had all of the facts, because every single word mattered. >> you are actually saying with a straight face this president cares about getting the facts right before tweeting about it? >> what i'm talking about? >> those things are different. wire tapping in the trump tower. >> what i'm saying is this is a different issue. it's a racial issue. everyone talked about the

merk ceo reziechb redesigning every time they said that, who happens to be african american. who happens to be african american. but the rest of the ceos, when they resigned, i didn't hear people say who happens to be white. >> you know what -- >> how many of them actually did he attack by name? >> did he attack the black one or the rest? >> he talks about the fact that it was reducing prescription drug prices. >> he did go after the manufacturer. >> he called fraser by name and the fact he was african-american can't deny. >> my question is one, i was wondering earlier how trump supporters are going to spin this. >> it's not a spin. >> it is. >> is it racist, yes or no. >> i think donald trump's a white supremacists. >> very simple, yes or no. simone yes or no, do you think donald trump is a racist? >> i think donald trump is a white supremacist. >> do you think donald trump is a racist? do you think donald trump is a racist? >> do you think i'm scared of

donald trump? >> do you think he's a racist? >> i don't know what's in his heart. he looks as though -- >> in the green room when i asked you about it two days ago, you said donald trump is not a racist, and you said you can quote me and ask me on camera. >> i said i don't know what's in his heart, and i don't think he's a racist. >> that's not what you said simone. >> this is the hypocrisy i'm talking about. we know the man is not a racist. >> we know that he's -- >> how do you know what's in his heart to call him a liar? >> i'm not saying i know what's in his heart. >> one at a time. >> i'm not saying i know what's in his heart. i'm not claiming to know what's in his heart. i know what comes out of his mouth, and more lies do than any president in modern history. >> i think that's a large statement to make. i don't know who's cataloged that. all of the modern presidents and lies they've made. >> fact checkers have. >> a number of fact checkers, nonpartisan ones have cataloged the unfactual statements.

can't deny that. >> can i come in? i made a statement that i think i need to back it up a little bit. far long period of time, i said what simone said. is which is that donald trump recognized a portion of his base pedalled in bigotry and racism and he understand that was part of his base. politically it made sense. i firmly believe now after watching this president and especially watching his behavior today and defending and going out of his way to defend and the way he defended today was by bringing this false moral equivalence between people like black lives matter and neo-nazis. there is no moral equivalence. >> that's trur. >> there's absolutely no moral equivalen equivalence. when you look at his history, the totality of it, the discrimination and complaints against not only the dealers in atlantic city but the department of justice and his housing. when you look at the central park five, you can go on and on. my african american. you can look at the way that donald trump interacts and yes, and yes, i firmly believe whole heartedly that he's a white supremacist in chief.

if i get in trouble, so be it. but somebody needs to tell the truth about what he is, and that is what he is. >> we have to take a break. up next we'll hear what a republican senator said today. about the racist protesters, a tone the president is unwilling to take. i'll also speak with the gold star father who lives in charlottesville. bric. in situations like this, there's no time for distractions. it's not enough to think i'm ready. i need to know i'm ready. no matter what lies ahead. get a free sample at depend.com. you're searching for something. whoooo. like the perfect deal... ...on the perfect hotel. so wouldn't it be perfect if... ....there was a single site... ...where you could find the... ...right hotel for you at the best price? there is. because tripadvisor now compares... ...prices from over 200 booking... ...sites ...to save you up to 30%... ...on the hotel you want. trust this bird's words.

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you know what? no one cares.

today's comments are in

direct opposition to who seams to be denouncing racists with no equivocation. the president refuses to do it but other republicans have. the senator of colorado said this. at town hall yesterday. >> this past weekend was a tragedy. when we witness people with kkk signs and white supremacists signs and neo-nazi signs, those ass holes can go back to their cave. we don't want them in our country. >> he lives in charlottesville his son was killed while serving in iraq and president trump belittled the kahne family. the father joins me now. you've lived in charlottesville with your family since 2005. i wonder what you thought when you witnessed firsthand the march going through your city. >> anderson, we live in one of the most beautiful, wonderful, peaceful cities of united states. when we saw on friday, i think it's worth making a note,

emancipation park where they were to protest is mile and a half from university of virginia's sacred grounds. these nazi thugs, they attacked university of virginia's sacred ground a mile and a half through the town. i witnessed something that i could not imagine. there was a nazi flag carried by one person, and flag of united states carried by another person in the same group. i thought of thousands of my sons and daughters that died defending that flag, how dare they carry the nazi flag alongside american flag. and their chants, and their

slogans. all reflect that these nazis will not be accepted. this is what this city has decided to do. and i urge all cities decide to do. this was the first nail in the coffin of racism. racism ended here. it will never rise again. the only work that needs to be done is all communities throughout this country to rise up against this nazi un-american hatred. un-american kkk -- >> i wondered when you heard the president today, basically go back to the same remarks he made last saturday saying there was sort of moral equivalence between members of both groups, saying there was violence on both sides, that there were good people on both sides, good people including he was talking about good people marching on friday night with torches to a

robert e. lee statue, many of whom were chanting "jews will not replace us" and other nazi slogans. what did you think when you heard the president say that? >> look, america is discovering the morally compromised donald trump. this president will embarrass this great nation again and again and again. the reason is this president is unfit morally and legally to lead this great nation. it is that lack of moral compass, lack of moral leadership that this president continues to utter, and you will see that we have seen that for the last six months. his failure after failure after failure embarrassing this nation

throughout the world. i was hoping that maybe once he's elected, once he's in office that will encourage him, give him some moral compass to stand up and lead this nation and unite us but he has one more time, he has embarrassed us, and he has failed us. >> i appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. back now with the panel. joseph, were you as a supporter of the president, were you okay with what he said today? >> i think what happened today was an american abomination and ultimately worse than what happened on saturday. >> how so? >> i think when you look at it from the perspective of an individual who as we all realize, again, is really circumspect. someone who is leaping at conclusions, and now you fast forward to someone who is now effectively saying that people

who stood up against nazis in america are somehow culpable for nazis killing somebody. let's not -- at the heart of this is the fact that people died. and i think that it's irresponsible as a nation. right now we have a great, great moral dilemma. and it's because, again, i think for the first time in the history of this nation, we have an occupant in the oval office that is impervious to shame. and the reality is that in this nation, progress always comes from either overwhelming conviction or just the grand ball that leads to just kind of obliterating shame, and the only way that ever happens is when that shame or that conviction overcomes our shared apathy. right, because to me apathy is america's original sin, not slavery. >> right now the national republican congressional committee sent out an e-mail

raising money saying the radical left is trying to delay tactics. let the critics of our president know you support our president. lip service. the republican party is currently paying to this country for the republicans to stand up and say this is morally corrupt, i denounce what the president is saying, we have to stand up to white supremacy. i want action. >> i love my friend, but i want to take the labels off. i think we are having this crisis of conscious. i don't think this is a democrat or republican ideal. i think they're my brothers and sisters who are gay, bisexual, transgenders, african americans, hispanics, all these people who are suffering under this thumb of oppression for a long period of time. and now you have the person who exemplifies that most, the manifestation of david duke winning the majority of white

vote in louisiana is in the white house. >> and the republicans put him there. >> i get that. what i'm saying is there are a lot of people in this country, and i'm going to give the republicans hell, trust me. i want people regardless of party. people confuse prejudice and patriotism in this country. it's the most troublesome thing. i want people to set aside the prejudices and understand what it means to be a patriot. that young lady who died and the people out there protesting against naziism in america? that's patriotism. equality, justice, freedom, peace, love, that's patriotism. the stuff we see, that's prejudice. >> i agree with you on that. the reality that we face right now is patriotism has been put together with toxic masculinity. we face a challenge to try to get people to understand that patriotism is not a blind acquiescence to the status quo.

that's not what it means. when we sit here as a nation trying to grapple with what this is supposed to mean -- my mother always said i love you unconditionally, but i won't be proud of everything you do. to me patriotism is a mother's love. that's what patriotism means to me. you're going to be able to go out there and say you know what? we have this thing called slavery, and it is wrong, but i'm going to love you through it. we have this thing that we're talking about with individuals being hated because of the color of their skin. that's wrong, but i'm going to love you through it. america is rooted in our ability to say that we are going to fundamentally always be striving to be better and there are going to be things that are not going well, but we are going to love ourselves through it. >> are you asking me to love white supremacists through what happened? >> absolutely not.

i don't know how you could take it that way. >> this is interesting. i say the hardest thing what we have to do in this country is love our neighbors even when they don't love us. i mean, that's what i took from the civil rights movement. that's what i took from our forefathers. i loved the individuals even when they didn't love us. that doesn't mean you get punched and -- turn the other cheek. >> that's what i mean. >> it means that i love this country, and i won't let someone with a tiki torch and khakis pervert what i love. >> what you brought up is important. when you talk about the khakis, we were smiling about about it. but it's not funny. the white supremacists are using this as a platform to recruit young people, and they're doing it in a way that they've never been able to do it before. they're taking to social media, putting up fliers on campuses more than they've done before. to a lot of people they think the white supremacists, they're older. they have a picture in their head. they aren't. they're trying to normalize it, and they're doing a good job of it. more and more people are joining up. that's what they want from this. >> we'll continue the conversation next and have more

on the president's opinion that if the confederate statues some down next, it will be the forefathers next. >> you have to ask where it stops.

again the president defended some of the protesters in charlottesville, blamed the violence on both sides. right now i want you to hear from a white nationalist leaders. his critics will say this is who the president is defending. the president did speak out against the kkk on sunday. and obviously against white supremacists as well. this video is from vice media.

>> i'm hear to spread ideas, talk, in the hopes that somebody more capable will come along and do that. somebody like donald trump who does not give his daughter to a jew. >> donald trump but -- >> a lot more racist than donald trump. i don't think you can feel the way about donald trump and watch kushner walk around with that beautiful girl. okay. >> back with the panel. how much of this, and i don't know the answer -- is about politics in terms of the president trying to keep as much of his base as possible, and a small part of his base, but an enthusiastic part according to his new york times, is this alt-right. >> anderson, look, i know that no one believes anything that i say, but it's fine. 8% of african americans voted for this president. and almost double digits were millennial african american men. i think it's not true to give the impression that white supremacists or nazis are only in the republican party. >> i didn't say that. i said a very small part of the

president's base. >> but for the audience. i think it's also not fair to say that these people are only on the republican side and only with donald trump. to say this is part of the base, i think that's -- he's not doing this or doing anything to appease these people. >> david duke is part of his base. clearly david duke is happy. >> he's an opportunist. this is the problem i have with giving white supremacists the platform. i don't go to websites splattered around on the media talking about the white supremacists platforms. i know you do. i'm not degrading you for it. >> i'm a reporter. it's my job to know what's going on in this country. it's important to know what they're saying. >> i don't combat it. i don't talk about it. >> i don't put them out there. i don't give them the platform. i think these are smart people. they know that if they align themselves with donald trump or the republican party, they'll get press and ink. i think that's what they're doing. >> you don't think there is any ideological agreement between some of these people and the

issues of donald trump building a wall -- >> listen, if i say that i'm for smaller government and i'm for having more local control -- >> if you say that mexicans coming across the border, some of them are rapists and you want to crack down on immigration and you want to build a wall, that obviously, those are all things which might -- >> they would agree with, and when democrats say they want to get immigration reform under control, when they tried it, they would agree with that too. >> no, i'm not talking about -- >> let him finish. >> i think the problem that we have is we're not understanding that these people are smart. they're savvy and using this as an opportunity to drive up numbers. >> but steve bannon, i don't know him, i don't know what's in his heart, but he has said he wanted breitbart to be the publication for the alt-right. >> all i know is that i know several people who work for breitbart. the ones i know that work for

breitbart, two are black, one is jewish, and others are hispanic. i know that steve bannon founded breitbart in israel the israel publication there. i know some of the people that work there. and so i take issue -- and i know that the people that work there are not racist. i know that these are minorities who care about this country and want to make this country a better place for their children. >> so -- >> you don't think there's any politics in the president's thinking about how to respond to the instance in charlottesville? the reason he's saying there's good people there who are for the statue and good teem carrying the torches -- >> i think if i can just try to speak trump here. the issue i believe the president has is the violence. if you go back to the central park issue, he's always been about law and order. so in his response -- >> by the way, that was not law and order. that was --

>> central park five? >> i'm talking about his response. >> that was incorrect. >> the response is not about violence. the easiest way to point it out -- >> his response is always about law and order. >> but it's about restoring law and order. >> it's not, though. >> he's not driven by response in my opinion in violence. he's driven by almost a constitutional inability to emit fault. to be like -- to say that you know what, maybe i got something wrong. the buck stops with me. mistakes were made and let's move forward and do something differently. i think that is at the root of what we're seeing right now. and so i think, again, we're getting kind of off the mark. i think for this purpose, steve bannon is a cosmetic issue that reinforces the fears in people's minds, but steve bannon is not the problem. we have seen now there is zero evidence that anybody can get donald trump do anything that he doesn't want to do.

we need to really, i think, focus on the core issue. it's that we are a deceived people as a nation. all people. people of color, white people, we have been led astray when it comes to talking about the issue of race. when it comes to being here -- >> how so? >> how? >> yes. i don't feel led astray. i feel i'm clear. i'd like to know how you think the world -- >> i'm not talking about you personally. i think collectively. when we have individuals saying we're going to be a post racial nation. i think that was a misguided approach. i think we're talking about the fact that ma means i have to be less of what i am to be american. i think there's something fundamentally unamerican with that. we were misguided whether people said we were going to be post racist.

what we can be is less racist. what we can do or say that racism will no longer affect my educational outcomes, social outcomes. that also has to be rooted in a concerted is effort by all people to be honest with one another and be able to put themselves in the shoes of somebody else. >> we've got to take a break.

. before we get back to what the president said, blaming both so-called sides for the violence of white supremacist gathered in charlottesville let's get a reminder of what was happening in that town when racism came to rally. this video comes from vice media. jews will not replace us they chanted among other things.

just before the air i spoke with two gentlemen worth well aware with what happened with charlottesville. reverend edwards at the mount zion baptist church in charlottesville. don, i was wondering what you were making of the president's words to say there were shared responsibility on both sides. i understand you were there, you watched this when heather heyer was struck by a car, does the president's words go with right lane if. >> absolutely not. the words he said on saturday was sickening. he was not here. you did not have issues on both sides as he said, bad people. those folks descended on our town with ak-47, ar-15. they had their baseball bats and stick, they even brought in

bottles full of urine and cans full of concrete. therm determined to inflict as much damage as they possibly could. it's sad the elected leader of our country doesn't address the feeling with even think. >> you know pastor the pedestripresident made a statement a lot of people think he should have made on saturday condemning this. and going back on it today saying both sides were at fault. i'm wondering what you make of that pastor. >> well, sounds like he's schizophrenia and he's not sure what to say and when to say it. if he had any genuine concern for people and the lives that were lost as a result of the neo-nazi's and the kkk and the white supremacists coming here he wouldn't have said some of the thing he said. if that had been a family member of his he would not be saying

the kind of things he's saying right now. >> pastor i know you're looking for ways to have the community heal, i'm wonder if if you believe the president's word make it more difficult? >> oh, i believe it's difficult but since this town did not vote for him i guess it's not a big issue for me. this town has values in the life for people and not just a select view. so, i believe we're going to bounce back and be stronger as a result of what has happened in our city because the city has strong values. values of being a good strong community. >> i understand you're going to give a eulogy tomorrow for heather heyer who was slaughtered, who was killed by that man driving the vehicle. i'm wondering, can you give us a sense of what you're going to say? how do you approach something like this? >> well, one of the things i'm going to try to emphasize tomorrow is learning to make each day you live count. and the way you make each day

count that you live is that you don't count the days but you live the day to the fullest. you live up to your values and beliefs and practice them wherefore you go. and i want to suggest that's what heather did, she lived her life doing what she believed. >> pastor, i talked to heather's mom yesterday, she was 33 years old, and throughout her life she stood up for people she didn't even know but people she felt was perpetrated against. making kpars sons between counter protesters and neo-nazi's is that an insult to heather heyer? >> i believe it is, if he was at all concerned not only her but the two troopers that lost their lives as a rule of that group coming here, if they had not had

been here they're lives wouldn't have been lost. the president has a successful life but not a significant life because i don't know anybody he's made a difference in their lifelike she has. >> pastor edwards i appreciate your time and don gathers as well. thank you so much. >> thank you mr. cooper. >> thank you for watching, "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts right now. see you tomorrow. did you ever think you'd see the day that the president of the united states would affectly and openly defend neo-nazi's and white supremacist? i know i didn't. it's a first time for everything. and today was that day and it is a shameful one. this is "cnn tonight," i'm don lemon. if anyone doubted about how the president felt of what happened in charlottesville, virginia doubt no more. standing in the lobby of the trump tower the prede