and the enemy are the terrorist who's do not believe in what we do, open societies and freedom. who are out to kill innocent people and we have to understand that this is asus attained effort . in this country, we have a violent hate groups based on right wing white supremacy. >> we will kill. we will stand in the streets. we will march. we'll do what we have to do stop the communists, won't we? >> these people want a pure arianne nation. >> many of them were willing to do anything to punish and kill people who were not part of the

white race. >> there will be a lot of blood running one day. america shall again become white and christian. >> but i have never encountered a group with a goal to eliminate jews from the face of the earth. and ultimately, overthrow the united states government. until we discovered the terrorist organization called the order. >> as a former fbi agent and chairman of the house intelligence committee, i had oversight of all 16 of our nation's intelligence agencies. my name is mike rogers. i had access to classified information gathered by our operatives. people who risked everything for the united states and our families. you don't know their faces or their names. you don't know the real stories from the people who lived the fear and the pressure, until now.

>> i first went undercover in the fbi in about, i think it was 1967. i had specialized in the fbi in domestic terrorist cases, organized crime, and undercover. and in 1984, i was working with the mafia when an opportunity came up in coeur d'alene, idaho. it was a one-man office, and the agent that had been in coeur d'alene had left, and nobody was there. it's a beautiful, idyllic spot. and so i jumped on that, and along with a lot of other people, i threw my hat into the ring and i was fortunate enough that i got selected. i packed up my gear, left the

family, headed out to coeur d'alene and i found my office, the door was a little 8 x 10, nobody has been there in months, cobwebs going across there. i just kind of looked at it and shook my head and thought, well, what did i get myself into here? this is not quite what i expected. but i was in a beautiful place. i think perhaps the reason that i was selected or one of the reasons is because i had domestic terrorism experience, a lot of it. i, woulds the new left in chicago. i had worked the ku klux klan in alma. so i was a likely person to step in and look at the group located in the coeur d'alene area called the arian nations. they were the political arm of the church of jesus christ christian, a religious organization that believed the jews were the biblical enemy. >> we the white race lost the

war. the plague known as jews won the war. this plague is poisoning our people to death. >> the agent that had been in coeur d'alene before i got there suspected but didn't know that this organization might be involved in criminal activity. there were rumors they might involved in terrorist type activity, as well. we had nothing really to go on. i commenced my investigation on a somewhat full-time basis in about march of 1984. that was just me. nobody else in the office, nobody else working the case. one of the very first things i did is i met with larry broadbent. he was undersheriff in the county, which is the county that coeur d'alene is located in, and larry broadbent had been conducting a one-man investigation of activities out

at the arian nations. so i sat down with larry, and i said larry, show me all the criminal activity that we may be have some suspicions that they might be related to this group. we pinpointed about five or six different crimes and probably 30 or 40 different people. that was sort of the beginning. of the playbook. and after he left, i was convinced that there was more than just smoke, there was a real fire here. but i didn't know much. i really didn't know anything about what ultimately we were going to discover. that was the fact that there was a different organization than the arian nations that had committed all these crimes. later, we would learn that it was a religious and political terrorist organization called the order. led by a man named robert mathews. >> bob mathews was very charismatic.

he was a young man, in his 30s. he had been involved in the right wing movement, especially the white national alliance, for years. >> jews, get the heck out of here! i didn't come all the way down here to hear you! go over there. >> he believes that the jews were subverting the american cause, and that the jews controlled the finance, that they controlled the government, which he called the zog, the zionist occupied government. and bob matthews thought i can't let that happen. i've got to do something. he wanted to eliminate jews from the government power within the united states and ultimately overthrow the united states government. he wanted a pure arian nation. he begins to recruit arian warriors. he finds about seven people within the arian nation organization and he drafts those

people and he reaches out to the covenant sword and arp of the lord and he goes to the national loins and pulls some of them in and he goes to the ku klux klan and he gets some of them. >> people like richard scutari, david lee gar borough, david lane and others. and now he had dedicated core members which was ultimately the group known as the order. these were the people that bob mathews was going to depend on to carry the war against the jews in charge of the united states government. in september of 1983, the order had taken their first efforts to finance themselves as arian warriors. initially, they tried counterfeiting. they did a terrible job and managed to get one of their primary leaders, bruce carol pierce, caught in their first

effort to pass this counterfeit money. >> so after counterfeiting failed, bob matthews felt as the leader of this group, he had to do something to show the others that they weren't a failure and they were going to continue forward. so he robbed a bank in december. it was a successful robbery, and it gave him a tremendous amount of confidence. and he was able to tell the others, look, you know, i did this and we can do this. following right on the heels of that, gary and bruce decided well, yeah, bob did that, we'll do it. so the next month, they robbed a bank and they're successful. they look at the take of their money, which is about $40,000, and they think we're on the right track, but we're not thinking big enough. we've got plan bigger. we need to hit armored cars. the first armored car robbery they do with four people and

then he gross his group and bob has seven people for the second one in the north area in seattle. and they get away with about $200,000. >> these are certainly not ordinary bank robbers. they robbed the armored car to enable them to fund their battle, not to put in their pocket, not to buy drugs. they're stealing for the cause. >> the more money the order had, the bigger threat they were to the united states government. as a result of armored car robberies, they were able to go out and purchase firearms, a lot of ammunition. they were becoming a very, very strong army. >> by this time, bob has become inspirational. and people are drawn to him. he's made them believe that they will be successful. at that point, they were well ahead of me. look, i'm playing catch-up. all these things have happened,

and i don't know how it au ties together. i'm still trying to put together a report that i can send to the department of justice that will show enough probable cause that they will allow me to do a full scale investigation. otherwise, i'm limited. my hands are tied. i need a team of agents. i want to develop informants and get this thing moving so i've got realtime information on what's happening. but i'm not allowed to do that until the attorney general says okay. now, i sent my report off in june, and while i wait for the justice department to say okay, robert mathews decides it's time to strike out against an enemy of their race. we're talking about the killing of a jew, that would be the first of many.

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and physicians involved in opdivo clinical trials. these make cleaning between myi love easy.sy. gum brand for healthy gums. soft picks, proxabrush cleaners, flossers. gum brand. i was chasing a terrorist organization called the order. who were dedicated to overthrowing the united states government and eliminating jews from the face of the earth. led by a man named robert matthews and they were well ahead of me. if you look at the activities of this group, some counterfeiting and bank robberies, and a couple armored car robberies, it was so obvious that over such a short period of time, they had grown so much.

and i'm playing catchup. i'm sitting here trying to put all this together and robert matthews decides it's time to strike out against the jews. they came together and said who are our greatest jewish influenced enemies. and the names came up like norman leer, a prominent producer of some comedy shows. and morris deese, the head of the southern poverty law center. and then they looked at a man named alan berg. alan berg was a very prominent personality in denver, colorado and becoming a very prominent personality kind of throughout the country because he had his own radio show that was widely broadcast. he was a jew. and he was a very, very obnoxious individual. >> you never shut up. i am fed up with you.

you never let me get a word in edgewise. get out of here. >> alan berg got on the radio and called white supremacists on his talk show and continually talked down to them, insulting them, laughing at their beliefs. every time the person got ready to answer, berg cut them off and said something insulting to them. >> i'll hang up on you. >> go ahead, both of you hang up, cowards. >> one of the guys from the order who was also head of the klan in colorado was a guy named david lane. david lane called in and berg ate him up like a cheap sandwich. he went after him. >> i think the jews are still firmly in control of the soviet union and responsible for the murder of 15 million white christians. >> i think you're sick and pathetic. >> berg has insulted him, so they decide, we're going to take him out.

>> in june of 1984, bob mathews made the decision to have alan berg assassinated. so he pulls together his team, he takes charles pierce, who is going to be the trigger man, richard scutari, and david lane, and they go to denver, colorado. once they got there, they set up surveillance at his residence. and they wait for him. >> berg opened the door and they opened up on him with a fully automatic machine gun. berg was hit multiple times, and he died at the spot. >> is the order a terrorist operation? >> absolutely. absolutely, 100%. it didn't matter if there were mass casualties. they were willing to do anything and everything to achieve their goals. >> these were very dangerous people, and they were becoming more dangerous as time

progressed, which if you look at the timeline, after they did the first two armored car robberies, bruce carroll pierce leaves with richard kemp and they go to boise and they bomb a jewish synagogue. that was an act of terrorism. there was no money to be had. there was no criminal game. -- gain. it was punishment. >> they felt emboldened, and things escalated rapidly. in july of 1984, we learned about the armored car robbery of a brinks truck in ukiah, california. >> it was on the last day of the democratic convention in san francisco in 1984. we're all sitting in a big command post waiting for the convention to be over and a phone call came into the command post saying there's been a armored car robbery. when we got involved, we had no idea about the order, and all

the players, the people involved at the time. that was a separate criminal case. so i get to the scene, figure out what happened and it started growing from there. we discovered they scoped out where the truck would be most vulnerable and decided to hit the truck on highway 20 outside of ukiah. they bought cars, trucks, a 30-pound box of roofing nails and they threw them out on the road. and the armored truck starts to get flat tires and then they surround the truck. there's two or three guys pulling up shotguns. they actually shot at the truck. and the shotgun blast went through the glass, hits the people inside. the truck came to a halt. they all surrounded it and climbed off their trucks and got out of their cars and someone in one of the pickup trucks held up a cardboard sign that said get out or die. and then they were able to get into the back and start pulling money bags back. while they were doing the robbery, one of the guys was calling out time marks.

eight minutes gone. nine minutes gone. let's finish it up. they were very disciplined. in and out of ten minutes and got north of $3.5 million. the ukiah crime was perhaps one of the greatest armered car robberies of all time. for everybody else, this is a bad thing. for me, it was a breakthrough, because bob mathews made a huge mistake. >> during the armored truck armory, mathews was holding a gun, and bob matthews left that gun on the front seat of the armor truck. when we recovered the gun, it took about a week to trace it. we discovered that it had been originally ed by andrew barnhill innant who month. >> ultimately we traced him to an address in idaho. we went inside and found lots of information. >> they found automatic weapons, large quantity of cash, receipts, i.d.s, and other information that tied him into the order. >> we also found a milk carton.

the milk carton had some personal items and then buried down in the bomb is an article on the north gate bank robbery. why do you keep one article like that in a place where your most personal possessions are pistons because he had something to do with it. >> at this point, i feel like we've got enough, let's expand our case. but i've got to wait for the justice department to say okay. i sent my report off in june. now we're in july, and i sat and i waited until they finally came back and they said, yes, it's a go. now the case was about to greatly expand once we had this authority to do the full-scale domestic security investigation. the fbi is going to pour into this investigation and we did. >> at the time i was on leave,

i was stationed in providence, rhode island. i got a call from the office. i was to report for duty the following day and to bring a rifle. i had never worked domestic terrorism cases to that point in my career. my general impression from reading everything was they were very sophisticated and they were very dangerous people. >> initially, when we arrived there we realized we were investigating things that happened last month, that we had finally realized had been done by the order. the first thing i did is call back to fbi headquarters and say, send me 20 agents. these people are doing bad stuff and they're getting bigger and it's spreading all over the western united states. >> now i had a team. the ball game had changed. we were now in the game.

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>> all of the investigative steps are just kind of logical. you know, where would these people stay and where did these trucks come from because we started with the trucks backtracking and the guy says hey, i met a guy and sold him a truck and he was staying at the motel 6 and started pulling those records. we discovered they all stayed in the santa rosa area, at a super 8 and a bunch of other hotels. so the fellows in santa rosa pulled all the phone numbers from all the phone booths and put them into a database and we started coming up with numbers. that were called from the phones. >> that was amazing intelligence. and so when i got a call telling me that calls were made to a jerry just north of coeur d'alene in stand r sand point, immediately i droechb to where that phone was located in that residence and we took up a surveillance position. after a few hours, a guy comes

walking out of a residence. i looked at him through the binoculars, i said that's gary yarborough, the same guy that's in photographs that we acquired of individuals that belong to the order. and we immediately directed two teams of agents specifically on an observation of gary yarborough. what we had to do at this point was patiently wait. we had gathered a great deal of intelligence information, but i still wasn't in a position to arrest anybody. >> we had evidence that linked certain members of the group to criminal activities, but we didn't have sufficient evidence where we felt like we could go to a grand jury and get a warrant and indite. >> we were looking for a break to get through that log jam, and the break was thomas martinez being arrested in philadelphia, pennsylvania, for passing counterfeit money.

>> robert mathews had been -- in the early formation of the order days had been counterfeiting money on presses and matthews at the time was in the process of trying to recruit additional members. one of those members was an individual he knew from the national alliance by the name of thomas martinez. martinez lived in the philadelphia area and provided u.s. currency that was counterfeit. he was instructed by mathews and others in the order to take those bills and to pass them. when he did, he got caught. he was paid a visit by the secret service and arrested. >> after they had their initial interview with martinez, they recognized there was something bigger than this few bills of counterfeit that had been passed. so they called the fbi. >> they said, i've got a guy here in philadelphia arrested for counterfeiting tore this guy bob matthews.

they said do you want to talk to this guy? >> damn right we want to talk to him. charge him with everything you can charge him with so when we getedly we can say boy, have we got a deal for you. >> once he decided to cooperate, he opened the doors and supplied a lot more pieces of the puzzle. >> who was responsible for the armory car robbery in seattle. who participated in the ukiah robbery? all of these questions could be answered by thomas martinez. because he had been solicited by bob and bob had told him about all these different things that they had done and they were doing, and it was martinez that basically introduced us to the book "the turner diaries." it's a fictional account of a group of people just like we're talking about that ultimately manage to overthrow the united states government. >> september 16, 1991. today it finally begins.

after all these years of talking and nothing but talking, we have finally taken our first action. we're at war with the system, and it's no longer a war of words. in the books, they're not talking about overthrowing the government. they're overthrowing it. >> and bob mathews took this book as his bible, and he followed it. so in "the turner diaries," the characters did counterfeiting, armored car robbys, executions. and that's what the order did. so martinez was a wealth of information. you might say we had a lot of little pieces and he was able to move them around for us and show us where they fit. once we had the agreement made with tom martinez that he would help us, we knew we had to be patient. like the hunter, we had to wait for bob matthews to contact and ininstruct martinez. in the meantime, we had not been

idle. we were moving at lightning speed. and we greatly increases our surveillance of gary yarborough. >> so we let a couple of agents go to yarborough's house and all of a sudden they see yar borough and he fired three shots at them. by shooting at those two people he committed a crime called assault on a federal officer. that gave us the ability to get an arrest warrant pore gary for shooting at the two agents and a search warrant for gary's house. within like a day. so we went to gary's house to arrest him. >> but he saw us coming and he bailed out of his housewaring nothing but a t-shirt and a pair of pants. >> gary escaped that night, but the astounding amount of evidence and information we got upon searching gary yarborough's house was unbelievable. >> we found all kinds of documents written by the order.

command structure and all the members. and their code names. they're all identifiable. now we've got the whole story. now we can see everything. >> we saw guns, dynamite, ammunition, swastikas on the wall, and both me and my partner saw a mack 10 submachine gun which we knew had been the type of weapon used to kill berg. and we both said, you don't think they're stupid enough to have kept that weapon, do you? and we both said, we'll, we'd better find out. and the next morning i get a phone call from the firearms examiner in washington that said that is the gun that killed alan berg. >> how did you feel? >> total exhilaration. total. gotcha. talk about physical evidence. they kept this. this gun killed alan berg. >> here we are now chasing one crime after another and finally

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after we had the confrontation with yarborough in

october of 1984, we gathered a great deal of intelligence information that finally started to put together the little pieces of the puzzle that were missing. and now we felt like we had enough information to successfully bring forth criminal charges. there was no more cat and mouse game. we were right on their heels. and i wanted to take them all down as soon as possible. because they were growing in numbers with a goal of overthrowing the united states government and eliminating jews from the face of the earth. >> they were headed wrong and they were headed wrong fast. they robbed these armored cars, they shot this talk show host. they were following "the turner diaries sppt like a map. it was a scary thought because the principal character in the turner diaries blew up fbi headquarters.

so we had to take them down. >> we knew that our informant, tom martinez, was our link to mathews and his followers. in about october of 1984, we found out a phone call came in to martinez with instructions as to where to go to meet bob, and that was what we were waiting for. so the real purpose in having martinez meet with matthews is in hopes that matthews is going to bring martinez into the core of the group and we'll have a lot of the members there and be able to make significant arrests. we're going to arrest whomever he meets with. >> the day before thanksgiving in 1984, martinez flew to portland. we had agents inside the airport that were doing the surveillance. when martinez arrived, mathews walks up by him. martinez sees him and follows mathews out.

our guys detected a counter surveillance. there was a guy hanging around kind of back, they could tell he was watching martinez and matthews. and he went outside. this guy gets in the car. as it turns out, that guy was gary yarborough. >> as they're driving, martinez said i made a reservation at such and such holiday inn. matthews says don't worry about that. we've already made reservations for you at the place where we're staying. and that turned out to be the ca bri motel. >> that scared tom. that was a kink in the plans and he's thinking to himself, oh, man, they're going to take me to a place where the fbi won't know where i'm at. but we tracked hip to the hotel and we managed to get a call to him to let him know we knew where he was. a raid was planned on the motel. martinez was told to stay in his room, not to leave for any reason.

>> daylight comes and we were getting ready to make the bust. all of a sudden i hear this commotion. >> as it happened, mathews walked out just before the raid was to take place. >> i don't know what he saw, but something spooked him. >> and he jumped and ran. >> mathews ran down the stairway and takes off and runs across the parking lot. didn't have a chance to get to his car. he was on foot and he was boogying. -- booking. in the meantime, i could hear noise coming from the back. i ran to the back window and i look out, there's yarborough hanging from a wind sill. as soon as he hits the ground, he's got pistols jammed at him from every different angle. >> one thing i noted, there was hand grenades sitting on a night stand and i saw some long weapons in there, as well. so the agent who went in the room with me, had he seen

matthews run down the street. so we start chasing after him. two other agents were in front of us chasing after mathews. and mathews turned inside this house and waiting at the corner. waiting for the first guy to come across. as soon as that first agent came around the corner, he spotted matthews and he went into a slide like they do in baseball. when he did, matthews opens up on him with a .45. the bullet went through his foot. >> the next pursuing agent with a shotgun fired back at matthews and only hit his hand. matthews' hand looked like a cartoon thing where you hold your hand up and you can see through it. it was just mangled. >> i start tracking and i'm looking for blood spatter. and at ha point, all i could think of is the hand grenades i've seen in that room and i'm

thinking he's going to lob a grenade at us. so you do what you got to do. >> he goes into this heavily vegetated area, and i'm following him. >> the last i saw of mathews was his blood trail. i had no idea where he went. we got gary yarborough and bob matthews escaped through us because we had no idea where he would go next. it was a scary thought because somebody like matthews he might be hiding out, but he's waiting till he can get his arm together and throw the next -- so weets had to locate him and take him down fast. the lincoln summer invitation is on. it's time for a getaway. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc. on the versatile midsize lincoln mkx. or go where summer takes you in the exhilarating mkz. the lincoln summer invitation sales event. ask about complimentary pick up & delivery servicing. right now get zero percent apr plus 1,000 dollars summer savings on the

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rash; itching; headache; confusion; hallucinations; muscle or joint pain; flushing; fever; or weakness, as this may keep these problems from becoming more serious. these are not all the possible side effects of opdivo. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, or if you've had an organ transplant, or lung, breathing, or liver problems. because who wouldn't want...that? ask your doctor about opdivo. see opdivotv.com for this and other indications. bristol-myers squibb thanks the patients, nurses, and physicians involved in opdivo clinical trials.

in the fall of 1984, the after the shoot-out in portland, the last i saw of matthews was his blood trail, and i had no idea where he went. >> bob mathews escaped through us because we had no idea where he would go next. >> somebody like mathews, he might be hiding out, but he's waiting till he can get his army together. so we had to locate him and take him down, fast. >> fortunately, within a matter of a few days, through some informants that developed, we were able to locate the whereabouts of bob mathews and six members of the order to his hideout in whitby island on the

puget sound in washington. when i got to the whitby island, it was december 7, 1984. and i didn't know this, but on november the 25th, bob matthews had pulled all of his people together into their hideouts at whitby island and he drafted a letter to the united states congress, and it was a declaration of war. so bob mathews was committed to fight to the end. but so were we. >> they were staying in two different houses. the houses were approached. people in one house all surrendered. when they approached mathews' house, matthews was given an opportunity to surrender. refused to do so. >> come out with your hands up. >> we did everything we could to try to get him out of there. and when we decided that bob wouldn't come out, we made a plan to go in and get him. >> dozens of fbi agents armed with automatic weapons and dressed in full combat fatigues have been bussed to the scene.

>> bob was upstairs and he had multiple weapons and lots of ammunition. so we moved in, and we used sound grenades and blew the glass out and then i heard the gunfire. he began to shoot indiscriminately through the building. i remember one occasion, i was standing by the window with a weapon, and somebody yells from the wood line, look out, he's in the window above you. i crouched down and i looked up with my weapon and i realized that the bullets had just come out over my head and hit the ground next to me, but we couldn't get a view of him. so we pulled back and waited until that night. that night we put a flare into the bottom of the house so we could light up the bottom so he couldn't see to get out. and once again, tried to get him to surrender. but he responded with gunfire.

we had helicopters come over the house and he shot at the helicopters. while all this was going on, the house caught fire. the fire was from the flare that was in the bottom of the the shooting continued all night. rounds being fired by bob. and just going off indiscriminate nantly. it was a war zone. at daylight, i walked up to the cabin and i found bob's body lying in the rubble. and the entire house was destroyed. whatever evidence was there was no longer there. he came to a fiery end just like the fictional character, turner, in the book "the turner diaries." once he done that, he was exalted like the sainthood of the neo-nazis.

he was a martyr. >> just like an isis martyr. that's exactly the kind of situation we had in the order. that dedication and that kind of fervor, those people he recruited makes those people say to themselves, i'm going to be like bob mathews. >> bob deliberately sacrificed his life knowing that the blood of martyrs stirs the people. >> after bob died, there was a belief amongst the believers of the order it would only take a spark to reignite the whole thing. we began an intensified manhunt to locate the others. if we didn't do it right and if we didn't do it fast, a lot of good people were going to be hurt and a lot of people were going to be affected by the actions of this group. let's see,

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following the shoot-out on whidbey island, mathews was dead and six members of the order were in custody. and we immediately began a very intensified manhunt to locate the others. >> federal officials were announcing today they are cracking down on a neo-nazi ring they say is operating in several western states. >> everybody fled in a hundred

directions. they scattered like cockroaches and we had hundreds of agents working 24 hours a day, seven days a week. >> they couldn't even plan to do a criminal act. they were just planning out how to stay out of our grasp. we were right behind them. >> when mathews burned up, they were looking for a leader. bob was dead and he was the absolute iron fisted leader. he made the decisions. he was gone. >> they not only lost their motivational leader but their operational leader. they became a group of fugitives scattered across the country and had to fend for themselves until we ran them down. >> as we started making arrests, we would interview these people. some of them would talk, some wouldn't. but everybody that would talk, we would get more and more information. and we were successful in

locating everybody. >> we really break the back of the order at that point with mathews dead and some of them already indicating that they were going to testify against their friends if it meant they would get a smaller, shorter criminal sentence. >> in seattle, ten people all members of a white supremacist group called the order are on trial these days. the charges include murder, arson, robbery, counterfeiting and dealing in stolen property. >> prosecutor gene wilson decided i'm going to make this a rico case. a rico case say federal law that says if an organized group of individuals get together to commit criminal activities for a agreed upon reason regardless of when they joined or what they did was guilty of all of the crimes. and, of course, it ended up being a laundry list. bang robberies, armored car robberies, murder, and bombings. the trial lasted about two months. and slowly but surely different order members who had turned against the group came in to the

courtroom and testified for three, four, five days and would sit there and point out each one of them. >> in seattle today, ten members of a neo-nazi group known as the order were convicted on racket tearing charges. >> they were all convicted quite quickly and i mean literally within a day. their sentences varied. but everybody got pretty substantial time. prosecutors are delighted with the verdict which they believe breaks the back of the order once and for all. >> the outcome was so rewarding. taken down, some of america's worst.

i participated in the arrests of the unabomber. he didn't come close to the potential of these guys. this was probably the largest criminal spree by any gang in history for many, many years. and after it had all come to an end, there was a general belief amongst the followers of the order that the spirit of the movement represented by mathews and his followers was still very much alive. >> always blessing. we could have been successful. we will be ultimately successful. change will take place. >> lo and behold it wasn't long before timothy mcveigh came along with the oklahoma city bombing. and he had read the turner diaries and he had picked up

where he saw bob mathews and his group had stopped. so we are able to say with confidence today that those people no longer are a threat to our country. we're not able to with confidence that the belief system and that philosophy is gone forever. because it's not. it's still here. it's still with us.