thanks so much for watching "360." cnn's coverage continues with chris cuomo. "cuomo prime time" starts now. i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "primetime." heroic acts. that's the story of tropical storm harvey so far. let's be clear, the danger is far from over. houston has seen 25 inches of rain in just two days. could see another 25 inches of rain by saturday. that would equal the average rainfall houston gets in a here. levels are not expected to crest for days. we're seeing the damage spread to other states.

new orleans, on the anniversary of katrina, may be in for more trouble. the entire gulf coast may suffer from this storm. and that water that you see is fast becoming a toxic soup in many places. sewage of all kinds, run-off that can make you sick quick. this is the reality right now. we want to show you these pictures. do you see that? this is texas, this is the fourth largest city in america. imagine life reduced to nothing but survival for far too many. boats replacing cars. bags replacing homes. and these people you see on your screen, they're the lucky ones. so many are still believed to be trapped in homes. rescues are ongoing right now. but despite best efforts, and they are herculean by all accounts, the fear is all the folks you don't see who are battling rising waters and in need of saving. we are doing what we can to get information to the rescuers, to

get coordination for those who are stranded. we have someone on the phone right now. her name is volopa doggett and she is stranded in her home in texas. can you hear me? >> sure, yes, i can. >> all right. you sound good. i've been told you're in the home, you have a lot of other people with you, and you're worried because the water is rising. what is the situation? >> right now we have around 5 feet around my house. we cannot get out of the house. we cannot walk. the water is about to come in the house. we cannot do anything since four days. we've been locked down since friday evening. >> so you've been there since friday evening. we're assuming -- you're lucky you have communication but the power isn't what you need it to be. we're looking at pictures from outside your house, scary, and you have kids there as well,

yes? >> yes, i have two kids and a small dog. so my baby dog is with me, also, and he's really scared. >> i bet. i bet everybody is scared. you sound good and i know you're staying strong for the people there. you've reached out to 911. >> that's true, that's true, yeah. and my hospital tried to help me. my manager tried to help me a lot but, still, we are inside. now i go upstair because we cannot go down because water is coming inside the house. >> what are you being told by the first responders, the government, when you call 911? >> they didn't call 911 yet because this isn't a life threatening situation. my hospital tried to help me to rescue from here and provide us housing but it's too late now. it's too dark so we are going to try to go upstair because i have

a guest from india and i have four other people with me. >> well, be careful. everything is tougher at night obviously and you know that everybody is telling you stay out of the upper parts of your house if you can't get out from there. >> right now the situation is very bad everywhere so it's very scary and yesterday night we spent the whole night -- we could not blink eyes because we are really scared. >> i can imagine. i'm so sorry you're in this situation. but i know you're doing your best to hold it together. do you have water? are the kids okay? >> yes, i do. i have water and i'm ready for my daughter because she's very worried family. she keeps calling and trying to send us to a safe place. >> can you charge your phone? do you have any electricity? >> yeah, i do. i have electricity. we are lucky our electricity is

still on. we are lucky for that. >> you are. and i know you're getting more nervous as the water continues to rise. >> yeah, because my next door neighbor has a single story house and two small kids, like a 2-year-old and 1-year-old, and they're in a very bad situation. the water is up to the house. >> well, we know that you've told people that you need help. we're going to communicate that information, again. we have your address. we'll give it to the first responders. we have people out there as well, our crews, we'll see if anyone is near enough to you to get to you probably in the morning. i know everybody tells you the nighttime is scary. >> nighttime is scary, so thank you very much for your help. >> don't thank us. thank you for keeping your head together and making sure the people with you are okay. what are you telling the kids and the other people to keep everybody calm? >> be safe and don't try to get

out from the house and just stay in the house. don't worry about anything. don't worry about the job. don't worry about the money. don't go out. stay with your family. >> right now you care about what matters most which is staying alive and staying safe. >> family matters most, yeah. our family is so far away from us and they're worried about us, also, so we need to be very safe. >> you stay safe. i know this is a hard situation but, vilopa, i will stay in touch with you throughout the night and make sure everything is okay and we'll stay in touch until people come to get to you. thank you for talking to us. keep your phone charged. you never know if the power is going to go out. thank you and stay safe. >> now you have to remember vilopa and the people in there with those kids and, of course, the dog, you've seen pets everywhere, so many stories like that, so many people still in their homes and it's not about the first responders not doing their jobs. they're overwhelmed. that's why they put the call out

to citizens and, boy, it has been answered time and time again. we have so many people on the ground. let's get to miguel marquez joining us now from la grange, texas. you heard who we were just talking to, vilopa. you're coming across those stories again and again. you're trying to talk with the first responders and get help but the need is too great right now. what are you seeing? >> reporter: well, in this particular town they've had it pretty good, a town of 4,800. we're in fayette county. about 1,000 people are displaced here but they knew this river was going up. they didn't know it was going up this much. this is the colorado river. you can just make out that bridge in the distance there. you usually have to drive halfway across the bridge before you hit the river. today the river has come to the people of la grange. i want to show you here just how high it got up. it's actually starting to recede. that's the water line right there in la grange. so the water has come down. it's come down about 2 feet so

far. you can see the water here on the roadway and how much it's come down. this little girl is having a great time, a lot of people coming out now. they have pretty much dodged a bullet here. they have about 200 businesses and homes that are completely inundated. they had to evacuate an elderly center early this morning in the overnight hours. they did on an emergent basis. they were concerned, not sure how high the water was going to go. they were expecting 49 feet above flood level. flood level here is 26 feet. it hit 54.5 feet today, it crested. cities downstream are now facing it. columbus, texas, between 9:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. tomorrow, they are looking at the river cresting. they think they are ready for it but they have everything in place and all they can do is wait and hope that the banks hold. chris? >> and that is what it's all pinned on right now, that hope the future rains expected to come, maybe the same number that

already has come, that they'll be okay and, of course, places down river, the need only gets more and more great. all water finds its way to the bayou in that part of the state. miguel, stay safe and stay in contact if we need to tell people something. joining us is thad allen, a former u.s. national incident commander who led the federal response during hurricanes katrina and rita, and we have lisa monaco, adviser to president obama, communicating disaster response. thad, give us perspective about what they're dealing with in texas. i was there for katrina. i was there for rita. i know what you did. we haven't seen and hopefully we won't ever see the loss of life in this situation like we did there, but how do the challenges size up from harvey right now? >> well, thanks for having me on, chris. i think we need to understand all these events vary in complexity. what's complex in new orleans may not be what's complex in texas. the issues here are a broad geographic scope, a lot of towns

horizontally that have to work across boundaries to ply resources and then vertical integration from state and local responders up to the state and the federal level. it requires a lot of coordination and working to the to get it right. they don't know who evacuated and who didn't. >> what's the priority if you were in control right now? >> it's always safety of life. but once you are sure you got everybody that needs to be saved out, then what you need is access. you have to get rid of the water. debris removal paces everything, establishing electrical power and getting services back to individuals. >> first is the obvious priority which is the human need, and they're struggling with that right now for obvious reasons that we can all see on the screen, but for some things that aren't visible which is just where are the people, you're learning a lot about this from people, where people might be. that's why we're trying to have people on tv like we did and give those addresses through our

reporters to first responders and people with boats. it seems it's hard to coordinate that. >> well, chris, if you don't know who evacuated, you don't know who needs help and you get anecdotal requests through social media and 911 calls. the real challenge is figuring out who is out there that needs to be saved. in new orleans it took two and a half weeks, three sweeps of the city, to find people that needed to come out and then the difficult issue of remains recovery. >> i remember it all too well. hopefully we don't see anything like that from harvey. from the outside do they seem to have the resources? >> well, i'm not sure you ever have the right resources in the right place. the ability to reconcile that and put it where it's needed is very crucial. the communications up and down the chain of command, state and local to the federal government appear to be excellent. i've talked to the folks trying very, very hard. i think the level of collaboration and cooperation is unprecedented. but the challenge is as well.

>> lisa, the president wants to go, he wants people to know that he cares, that the federal government is behind them. it's a tricky measure because there's a big security footprint. it takes resources even if the president doesn't want it to. is it the right move? >> look, it's very important for a president to go to an area that is being devastated, that citizens of the united states are feeling this trauma like you heard from the guest you just had on at the top of the hour. i think the consideration has to be driven, the timing needs to be driven by the state and local officials. they need to assure the white house that there will not be an impact on the response. i will say i was surprised when i saw that the white house announced even before the hurricane had made landfall that the president was thinking of going early this week and then with the announcement that he would go tomorrow given what we're seeing in terms of, as you mentioned, multiple feet more of rain that is likely to fall. but it is important for a president to go.

i think it's a very tricky call. the bottom line needs to be the state and local officials need to make the call about when is appropriate. i've been part of these trips and i've seen what goes into planning a presidential visit to a state or a city that is operating at full capacity and is not afflicted by a disaster. it is a huge undertaking and it stretches a state and local area regardless of the situation. >> nothing public has come out about the president being discouraged by going by the governor or the mayor and he has been attentive verbally to the situation. he says the federal government will give everything that you need. what does that wind up being? what is the best use of the federal government? >> first and foremost it is the president's duty and his job -- he did this on friday -- to approve what's called a major disaster declaration and we saw the white house, i think quite appropriately, leaning forward on friday night, even before the hurricane made landfall and declaring a major disaster.

and with that comes two types of aid. one called public assistance to help the public infrastructure get back on its feet and repair it. and the other, critically, is called individual assistance, and that goes to people, individual families, to help them get back on their feet. but the challenge here, chris, it's one thing to declare and sign the paper and say the assistance is coming. it's quite another to get that to the individuals on the ground. >> the logistics. >> the logistics literally getting it to individuals who need to sign up for that assistance. >> and that's why often we wind up seeing the national guard come into play. we know it hasn't happened yet but they are standing at the ready. i need you and thad both to stay because there are more issues to discuss here. there are a lot of things about harvey that are unusual. for instance, the call to citize citizens, if you have a boat, if you can help, get out there and help. boy, has it made a difference. we'll talk to a member of the

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rescue. officials can't be sure but hundreds are in need of saving in just the houston area alone. operation made much harder in the dark. they say no one can come yet. first responders resources are already strained so word has gone out to anyone who can help. this is unusual for them to engage citizens. if you have a boat, if you're able-bodied, get out there, help your community and the call has been answered time and time again and that includes volunteers with the so-called cajun navy. do you remember that phrase? it came to be in our vocabulary after hurricane katrina. and joining us now on the phone is clyde cane, a member of the navy. clyde, i remember you good men getting after it after katrina, helping the communities, trying to save people for weeks. what brought to you texas? >> well, we waited for an invitation.

they called us to come over and we went on our facebook page and called out for boats and of course all the others came on over and we've been over in pasadena most of the day as you know running rescues as best we could with the weather conditions being as they are. >> what are you seeing on the ground and what are you bringing in terms of resources? >> right now we just have our boats here and we've exhausted those numbers. they're parked right now because of the weather. other than that we have some resources staged up after this but a we have no idea how long it will last and what i heard, which is just hear say for a moment but the governor is going to be forming something maybe tomorrow, one massive effort to get everybody together which will probably be very good for everybody out here now. >> there's a need for coordination. as you know very well in an emergency situation you just get after what you can.

how many of you came up? how many boats? >> we brought about 20 boats. we met up at the lake charles civic center. we brought about three boats and met up with leaders who had connections over here and ended up with about 20 boats and as they contact our groups and have been showing up over here at the academy in pasadena. as they've come in we've waited on instructions and we're working underneath others with their contacts. we go out and do the best we can. >> well, and you have shown the ability to do that in beautiful fashion. all the pickups and the trailers come with the boats. we will coordinate with the producers and you about people contacting us saying they need help and thank you, clyde, on behalf of all of us who aren't able to help the way you are.

be safe and thank you. >> thank you to all the volunteers that have come in, also, a part of the great big cajun navy. >> you know the work that needs to be done so let's thank collide kaine and the cajun navy. let's bring back thad allen, a former u.s. national incident commander who led the response in hurricane katrina and rita. coordinating disaster response. am i wrong in that? i don't remember the call going out so early. people are doing it early. unusual, isn't it? >> it's a testament to the scale. >> all the images we're seeing out there and the ability to

understand where people are so that we can get the state and local responders can get needed aid to them is going to be an all hands on deck job. >> no question about it. thad, i'm not saying this to be some sugary sweet sentiment, this is the reality. these citizens stepped up. the woman we had on the phone wouldn't call 911. she has five feet of water. i'm not in a life-or-death situation. we're holding it together. i'm lucky i still have power. we're seeing people step up. >> there's a dilemma. if everybody operates as an individual it's almost impossible to direct them and coordinate where to go. the best is to have them coordinate with a not for profit agency to be coordinated together. there's a team called spontaneous unaffiliated

volunteers very well intentioned trying to help. unless you can bring them into a larger framework it's difficult to manage. >> a successful rescue operation. right now they need all hands on deck. when you have people calling you saying we have to get out of our house, no one is coming, anybody who comes is going to be an angel to them. thad, thank you very much. lisa, as always, appreciate the perspective on this. we're going to keep a close eye on the ongoing storms in texas. next there is another story for us to take on tonight. president trump has doubled down basically saying he pardoned joe arpaio because he's a hero. we have a member of congress who supports the pardon, the president and what sheriff arpaio was doing.

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only a dignity memorial professional can celebrate a life like no other. find out how at sanfranciscodignity.com. all right. so late this afternoon president trump doubled down on his pardon of sheriff joe arpaio, he was convicted of criminal contempt and cited for civil contempt by

a different judge. two different judges found him in contempt for his treatment of undocumented immigrants. president trump calls the sheriff an american hero. >> sheriff joe is a patriot. sheriff joe loves our country. sheriff joe protected our borders, and sheriff joe was very unfairly treated by the obama administration especially right before an election, an election that he would have won, and he was elected many times. so i stand by my partner, sheriff joe, and i think the people of arizona who know him best would agree with me. >> point of fact this whole matter stems from an incident that preceded 2011 so it wasn't just about some election kind of f finagling and this was supposed to be law and forward president and this was an order from a federal court sheriff joe

decided to ignore. the law allows the president to pardon anyone he wants. this isn't about his ability to do it. it's whether he made the right call. what the law says about what sheriff joe was doing police can ask for documentation of immigration status while in the course of enforcing other laws. that last part is key. it's also the key to the controversy because arpaio was accused of rounding people up that looked like undocumented immigrants. and this goes back, again, many years. context matters. this was not an isolated incident. arpaio forced incarcerated inmates to live in an outdoor tent city he likened to a concentration camp. he had an unusually high suicide rate of inmates, problems with his officers assaulting people. the contempt order and the instant controversy stems, again, from a 2011 justice department investigation that revealed unfair targeting of latinos during immigration raids

and traffic stops. he was ordered to stop. he refused. he boasted about that refusal to reporters, and he was subsequently found by two judges to be this contempt of court. so why does the president see him as a hero? cracking down on undocumented immigrants is popular with some voters, certainly many in the so-called trump base and -- and -- there could be a personal toll as well. sheriff joe is one of the people who helped trump perpetuate the obama birther myth that prompted then citizen trump to tweet this in 2012. take a look. congratulations to real sheriff joe and his cold case posse investigation which claims barack obama's birth certificate is fake. that wound up being bs, but it still created a bond. and now sheriff joe is reportedly considering a run for the united states senate against, who else, another enemy of the president or at least a political opponent, senator jeff flake, a punching bag for this president. so this is not so much about the

law. again, the president has the right to pardon basically anyone he wants to. the question is whether or not it was right to reward joe arpaio for something the federal court found to be wrong. there's the issue. let's discuss it. we have congressman steve king, republican from iowa supports the pardon of sheriff arpaio. good to see you, as always, congressman. justify the pardon. what is your case? >> well, i watched this unfold, chris, from my seat on the judiciary committee in the house of representatives. we had democrats in majority and we had president obama elected. and i saw that justice department react to what i thought was a political statement so the democrats on the judiciary committee and start to put the squeeze on joe arpaio because they didn't want enforcement of our immigration laws in maricopa county. i made a trip down there to visit sheriff joe. i wanted to see what was going on. i talked to him at length about his process and his words to me

were he was avoiding any kind of ethnic profiling. it's really not race but ethnic profiling, and he was compiling with the law. he had over a period of time sb-1070, arizona's immigration law, up until such time as the supreme court invalidated parts of it. i said to him, joe, i'll help you. and he said i don't need your help. i have all the authority i need to enforce the law. >> the law gets tricky and i think this is more about the morality than the legality. i'll talk to you about the law in one second. this is about morality. sb-1070 got knocked down the supreme court in part, not completely. you're allowed to ask for immigration documentation in the enforcement of other laws. joe arpaio wasn't doing that. he was cited for rounding up people who looked like they could be illegal immigrants. it screamed of profiling. it wasn't a new practice and you know this. you know who joe arpaio is and was. so do i. this wasn't about the law

because the law is -- the federal government does immigration not the states. you can't be in contradiction to federal law. and federal law doesn't allow profiling. that's what joe arpaio was doing. two different judges said it. >> well, actually i disagree to a degree, chris. and the first thing is that who would have imagined the federal government who had support from a state that passed a statute designed to match up exactly with federal laws so they could support federal law, who would have imagined later on the supreme court would find parts of that unconstitutional? i don't agree with their decision, but joe arpaio couldn't have known that when he put his program in place. he was living underneath the program which is federal authorization to enforce immigration law and there is no federal law against profiling. >> profiling is wrong. it is found wrong under the law. it is found wrong as a practice

by the justice department. that is what they told joe arpaio he was doing and they said stop it. >> i don't agree. >> what don't you agree with? >> i don't agree profiling is wrong. if you take profiling away from the tools of law enforcement you couldn't describe a criminal in any way whatsoever. >> you're simplifying the issue, congressman. what happens when you profile? >> that's not generalized. there's a difference between racial profiling and a broader profiling with all of the descriptions that are there. i say it's wrong and the justice department says you shall not racially profile if that's the only component. if it's a component in a broader profile -- >> he was rounding up people, some who wound up being citizens, and that's what his guys were doing and what did his defense lawyer say? after all the bravado to reporters saying i'm going to

continue, i don't care what the judges say. that's called contempt by definiti definition, by the way. and this is supposed to be a law and order presidency. >> i don't agree. >> hold on, congressman. if you don't agree with him, then you agree with him being convicted of the crime because that's what he was convicted of. >> not necessarily. >> it was a contempt order. he then said through his lawyer that he unintentionally violated the law. it was an unclear order. i know this is his lawyers, but joe arpaio had a chance to do it the right way and he didn't and he boasted about it. now you're defending his flouting of the law. why? >> i'm saying this, i don't agree with him for defying the judge's order. we also should remember judge snow issued an order that was judge-made law, and it wasn't consistent with federal statute and there's nobody that can quote a federal statute, a law, against what joe arpaio did. and he said mistakes were made. that's how he defined what happened. but i don't know how you enforce

immigration law in arizona and not have some hispanics caught up in that effort. >> nobody is saying that you're not going to have hispanics caught up in it or latinos caught up in it. >> he said if he rounded up brown people. >> i'm not saying it. it's what the justice department said and you're well affair of these facts whether or not you agree with the facts. >> how are you going to enforce immigration law? every once in a while you get somebody who is a citizen by accident. >> it wasn't by accident. it wasn't by accident. he was ordered not to do the practice anymore and he boasted that he would. what was the practice? the practice was rounding up people just because they looked like they might be undocumented immigrants. the facts were never in question. joe arpaio never said the court had it wrong. he said he was going to keep doing it anyway and i think you're defending it because you like what he was doing. >> remember this, every law enforcement officer in the

united states of america up until the obama administration had authority to assist and participate and initiate the immigration enforcement. they had that. and the obama administration turned this around and they used clinton appointee judges to make judge made law. and joe arpaio had the rules changed on him in the middle of things and, yes, he defied the order of the judge but he didn't violate federal law. he violated -- [ inaudible ]. >> the supreme court comes up with ruling 53. scalia, may he rest in peace, didn't like it. there was dissent. it was the law of the land. so they come forth and say you can't just go round up brown folks because you think they might be illegal aliens, as joe arpaio would call them. you have to be enforcing another law. you can ask for immigration papers. the law was clear. there was a standard -- >> we should remember -- >> he flouted it. >> sb-1070 specifically

prohibited targeting people because of race or ethnicity, specifically prohibited that. but president obama made the statement that you could be a hispanic mother and presumably be going out for ice cream, be pulled over, stopped, and have them demand your papers. >> do you like that? >> i don't like it at all but the language in sb-1070 prohibited that there be anyone targeted because of race or ethnicity for that specific purpose. as long as it is part of a list of other things, profiling is necessary for law enforcement. racial profiling set by itself is wrong. >> you say racial profiling as if that wouldn't capture what was happening here. obviously if you were targeting a group of people because of their demographic qualities, their physical qualities, not their behavior, you're going to run into trouble with the law and that's what joe arpaio was doing. and he was found in contempt by two different judges. so now the president, who is the law and order president, he

says. we must respect the rule of law unless he doesn't like that rule of law, and then he calls the man who flouted the law a hero and pardons him. he takes away every sense the justice system judged him and found lacking. do you agree with that? >> no, not the way it's characterized. i will say this. i have been making this case on the judiciary committee, on the airwaves, and i don't remember if i've written about it or not. i'm concerned americans believe the broader definition, not racial profiling but profiling itself, that they believe there's a federal law against it and it's wrong. i want to make the point it's necessary for law enforcement. >> it gets slippery. >> yes. and that's why there's a directive from the justice department. i think that's an appropriate directive. >> and the sheriff flouted it. why is it a slippery slope? you've lived this slippery slope. when you start learning about some, you start judging all.

and that's where the cantaloupe came from, right? i know you've apologized for it. it was taken out of context. >> no, that isn't right. i'm surprised you brought that up. it was about drug smugglers. and i insist i have the right to insult drug smugglers. i have the right to insult drug smugglers. >> it's not whether you have the right, it's whether it is right. [ inaudible ] congressman, it's silly. and it paints a group of people in a certain way. >> it's not and the statement i made is completely and demonstrably true -- >> that people who struggle drugs have cantaloupe calves and that's how you know. >> because they're carrying 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert. and if you haven't seen the film you ought to google it. >> i've lived it. i've been there. >> i've seen it with my eyes. >> i've been there for over a decade. >> you've seen what i've described, haven't you. >> the point is this, when you judge some and you make them a

reflection of all it's a slippery slope. that was the problem with what you said. that's the problem with what joe arpaio did, two federal judges. >> -- because i insulted drug smugglers and that's a characterization that i'm concerned about. >> you insulted latinos by saying the calves show they're drug smugglers. >> except the drug smugglers. that's silly. that's not what i've said. you have to look at what i said not what people characterize as what i said, and i will stand on that statement for a lifetime. it's accurate. it's subjective and it's a fair characterization and it came from the border patrol who deal with it every day. i go down there and ride with them. >> i was with the border patrol. >> it was my characterization. >> i couldn't find one agent who said we can always tell the drug smugglers by the size of their calves. >> they're afraid of you, chris. >> no one is afraid of me. certainly not you. >> they're not going to give you that answer. >> it creates an ugly reality. joe arpaio reveled in that.

he liked disgracing latino people. he liked to separate them. called the tent city as concentration camps. >> i think we're talking over each other. >> i heard what you said. you do have valedictorians in a lot of that politician, the daca population. 96%. >> drug smugglers will sneak in under daca. i had to make that characterization and shake them by the shoulders -- >> how can you make that calculation? that minorities who come here are 100-1 drug smugglers who students or good workers. >> you know, of all of the critics this the press not one critics came forward with a single valedictorian and i can show you drug smugglers to no end. you surely got that from the border patrol. >> just being a valedictorian is

what made you a good employee, you and i would probably be locked up somewhere right now. it's not just about being a valedictorian. >> we might have been in a debate class, chris. >> contributing, 96% of these daca people are either in school or they're working and they're doing well. >> i want them to respect the rule of law. >> they were brought here as kids. >> their presence means they or their parents didn't respect the rule of law and they didn't all come as kids. some did. many didn't. they're up to 37 years old now and many of them knew. ms-13 didn't wait until they were 18. and a vast majority of ms-13 are illegal aliens and many of them would qualify under daca. >> it's a real gang, an organized criminal organization. we're not talking about them. they're criminals. they're violent. what they do is an extension of their criminality. when you find gangbangers, you get rid of them. no one argues about that. it's the other kids who came in as kids and they're just supposed to turn themselves in

ten years later when they realize how they got here? you think that is what america is about? >> and what about their parents then? if it was against their will then it had to be their parents that are responsible. and i'm still waiting for the first daca recipient to say so and say i didn't do this of my own accord. my parents brought me in. they should have the law enforced against them. i'm not hearing that from the daca people. >> it's a shock. congressman, we'll leave this conversation here. it's a bigger discussion and i'm always happy to have it with you. congressman steve king. >> thanks, chris. let's build a wall and restore the rule of law. >> one step at a time. president trump's pardon of arpaio. he says he's a hero. you heard a congressman defend that decision. two federal judges disagree. we're also going to continue watching the storms and flooding in texas. there's more water on the way and there are people in need of

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so what do you think was pardoning sheriff joe arpaio, former sheriff the right thing to do? not about the law the morality at play and the sheriff violate aid court order from two different federal judges. congressman steve king from iowa told us profiling which is what he says joe arpaio was doing is necessary for law enforcement. he draws distingttion between profiling and racial profiling gets confusing. let's discuss. cnn commentator, jen saki, former state department spokesperson, and former republican pennsylvania senator rick santorum, cnn senior political commen day tore. what did you hear in the discussion, rick, what are the merits of the decision from your perspective? >> well, what i heard with respect to what steve king was saying is that, joe arpaio did violate the law. obviously, you wouldn't be pardoned if you weren't convicted of something. i mean, what, that's what i am finding a little confusing here.

that you are saying the morality of it. and, and, all of these other factors, but, you don't get pardoned unless you did something wrong. and that you were going to be, you know sentenced or in fact were sentenced and convicted. obviously, joe arpaio wasn't sentenced but joe arpaio broke the law. >> you are misunderstanding what i am saying. i am saying the president's ability legally to pardon its not a real issue. he has almost complete authority to pardon anybody he wants. other than in matters of impeachment. >> find this particular offense very heinous. >> that's the issue. >> extraordinarily heinous offense. >> doesn't have to be heinous to be morally wrong. your catholicism is stronger than mine. >> are you suggesting -- >> do you agree with the pardon? >> are you suggesting other people pardoned didn't do morally wrong things. >> convicted of something. >> right. >> there are different levels.

>> arguably. >> do you agree with the pardon just to get an answer? >> i don't agree at the timing of the pardon. think he should have been sentenced served some time. that would have been my preference. but as far as the actual pardon, probably would have didn't myself at some point, yes. >> jen saki, but you guys argument keeps coming up. you guys, you obama people you, pardoned lots of people. bad people. so, why should there be any outrage about what the new president is doing? what is your response? >> well, look i think on the legal front they went through a process and consideration that went through the department of justice. and that didn't happen here. which i think is raising a lot of red flags for people. but i think, chris to your morality, morality point, the issue here is this is ripping open, almost a symbol of a lot of the racial divisions that have been a part of our country and our fabric for decades. about the treatment, the disparity of treatment between people of different racial background, by law enforcement officials and this is a painful

reminder to a lot of people, of that. so that's why, this is really about why did president from make this decision to make this his first pardon? somebody who was going to continue to divide and not unite the country at a point when we needed unity and not division >> rick? >> well i would say that is probably going to be the case. any high profile pardon. go back to private manning and the decision by president obama, to, to, give that pardon. that, that certainly ripped open a lot of wound that, that a lot of people were harmed bite information that was leaked. and, and, you know, i would say was a very immoral pardon. >> president obama didn't say what chelsea manning did was okay and in fact, she is a hero. he didn't say that, right? >> he commuted her. commuted her. >> commuted the sentence. actually serving time. and the president's reckoning was she served enough. looking at cases similar nature, context. this is enough time. so commuting the sentence. certainly controversial. but what president trump is saying here isn't. he has done enough time.

he has done nothing wrong. strie la violating federal orders two. judges finding contempt t nothing wrong. makes him a hero. do you have any problem with that message, rick? >> i don't like that message to be honest. one thing to pardon someone who you think was wronged by the system. or you believe was not treated fairly by the system. i think there is a lot of evidence out there he wasn't treated fairly by the system. but, i think it is one thing to do that. another thing to, to, to revel in suggesting that, that he was a hero. in some respects, if you look at, at his history, certain three heap serhe served the country admirably. time in the service and other things he did. certainly has a strong, long record of service to our country. maybe that's what he is referring to. >> he has a long record, for sure. let the historians sort it out. rick santorum. thank you. jen sa kit. as always. up next, we will look at how mother nature's hardest punches

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this hurricane is mother

nature at her worst. no question. it brought out human nature at its best. >> start jumping in to help out. >> yes, sir. yes, sir. >> where are you coming from? >> tech city. >> what are you going to do? [ indiscernible ] >> talking to the man, ed, reporting at its best. and that man, coming from his own home to help others. he isn't the only one, running or wading towards floodwaters. a group of neighbors pulled dogs and cats out of a flooded home saving them on makeshift boo gi eboard floats and kayak rescue boats. seeing it time and time again. people going out of their way to help others in need. some people in houston approaching the horrifying situation with a sense humor. if the's one of the laugh or cry moments. on a tough day after a tough weekend hopefully leave you've with a smile on your face as one houston woman and her family made the most of their flooded living room, literally, literally, fishing for dinner.

>> wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. >> oh, my god! >> that's not making the best of a bad situation, i don't know what is. thank you for watching us. cnn tonight is next. >> announcer: this is "cnn breaking news." >> breaking news, need to tell you people are in need of being rescued right now. down in texas. along the, the gulf, and what is happening with the hurricane. we are going to, going to join us in desperate need of help. water is rushing into her apartment there with a 1-year-old. water rising in east texas. thousand trapped. nor rain on the way. president trump promises help from the federal government as he prepares to travel to the flood zone tomorrow. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. thank you for joining us. the stories that are coming in are harrowing and heartbreaking. this is an