thanks so much for watching "360." i'm john berman. cnn's coverage continues with chris cuomo. "cuomo prime time" starts now. i'm chris cuomo. welcome to prime time. horrible circumstances and heroic acts. that's the story of tropical storm harvey so far. let's be clear, the danger is far from over. houston has seen 25 inches of rain in just two days. could see another 25 inches of rain by saturday. that would equal the average rainfall that houston gets in a year. levels are not expected to crest for days. we're seeing the damage spread to other states.

new orleans, on the anniversary of katrina, may be in for more trouble. the entire gulf coast may suffer from this storm. and that water that you see is fast becoming a toxic soup in many places. sewage of all kinds, run-off that can make you sick quick. this is the reality right now. we want to show you these pictures. do you see that? this is texas, this is the fourth largest city in america. imagine life reduced to nothing but survival for far too many. boats replacing cars. bags replacing homes. and these people you see on your screen, they're the lucky ones. so many are still believed to be trapped in homes. rescues are ongoing right now. but despite best efforts, and they are herculean by all accounts, the fear is all the folks you don't see who are battling rising waters and in need of saving. we are doing what we can to get information to the rescuers, to

get coordination for those who are stranded. we have someone on the phone right now. her name is volopa doggett and she is stranded in her home in richmond, texas. tell what's the situation is. volopa, can you hear me? >> sure, yes, i can. >> all right. you sound good. i've been told you're in the home, you have a lot of other people with you, and you're getting worried because the water is rising. what is the situation? >> right now we have around 5 feet around my house. we cannot get out of the house. we cannot walk. the water is about to come in the house. and my garage is full of water. we cannot do anything since four days. we've been locked down since friday evening. >> so you've been there since friday evening. we're assuming -- you're lucky you have communication but the power isn't what you need it to be. we're looking at pictures from outside your house, scary, and

it's not just adults. you have kids there as well, yes? >> yes, i have two kids and a small dog. so my baby dog is with me, also, and he's really scared. >> i bet. i bet everybody is scared. you sound good and i know you're staying strong for the people there. you've reached out to 911. >> that's true, that's true, yeah. and my hospital tried to help me. my manager tried to help me a lot but, still, we are inside. now i can go upstairs because we cannot stay down because water is coming inside the house. >> what are you being told by the first responders, the government, when you call 911? >> they didn't call 911 yet because this isn't a life threatening situation. you can call the 911. my hospital, park plaza tried to help me to rescue ufrom here, and they provide us the housing. but it's too late now. it's too dark so we are going to

try to go upstairs because i have a guest from india, and i have four other people with me. >> well, be careful. everything is tougher at night obviously and you know that everybody is telling you stay out of the upper parts of your house if you can't get out from there. >> the other people also. right now i think the situation is very bad everywhere. so it's very scary. and yesterday night we spent the whole night, we cannot even blink the eyes because we are really, really scared. >> i can imagine. i'm so sorry you're in this situation. but i know you're doing your best to hold it together. do you have water? are the kids okay? >> yes, i do. i have water and i'm ready for more worried for my daughter because she is like 100 miles from me and very far from family. she keeps calling and trying to send us to a safe place. >> can you charge your phone? do you have any electricity? >> yeah, i do. i have electricity. we are lucky our electricity is

still on. we are lucky for that. >> you are. and i know you're getting more nervous as the water continues to rise. >> yeah, because my next door neighbor has a single story house and two small kids, like a 2-year-old and 1-year-old, and they're in a very bad situation. yesterday, and the wart is up to knee on his house. so the rescue from the center. >> well, we know that you've told people that you need help. we're going to communicate that information, again. we have your address. we'll give it to the first responders. we have people out there as well, our crews, we'll see if anyone is near enough to you to get to you probably in the morning. i know everybody tells you the nighttime is scary. >> nighttime is scary, so thank you very much for your help. that's fine. in the morning we can do it, yeah. >> no, don't thank us. thank you for keeping your head together and making sure the people with you are okay. what are you telling the kids and the other people to keep everybody calm? >> be safe and don't try to get

out from the house and just stay in the house. don't worry about anything. don't worry about the job. don't worry about the money. don't go out. stay with your family. >> right now you care about what matters most which is staying alive and staying safe. >> yes. families matter most, yeah. our family, our parents, they are so far away from us, and they are just worried about us also. so we need to be very safe. >> you stay safe. i know this is a hard situation but, vilopa, i will stay in touch with you throughout the night and make sure everything is okay and we'll stay in touch until people come to get to you. thank you for talking to us. keep your phone charged. you never know if the power is going to go out. thank you and stay safe. >> now you have to remember vilopa and the people in there with those kids and, of course, the dog, you've seen pets everywhere, so many stories like that, so many people still in their homes and it's not about the first responders not doing their jobs. they're overwhelmed. that's why they put the call out

to citizens and, boy, it has been answered time and time again. we have so many people on the ground. let's get to cnn national correspondent miguel marquez. he is joining us now from la grange, texas. miguel, you heard who we were talking there, vilopa. you're coming across those stories again and again. you're trying to talk with the first responders and get help but the need is too great right now. what are you seeing? >> well, in this particular town, they've had it pretty good. it's a town of 4800. we're in fayette county. about 1,000 people are displaced here but they knew this river was going up. they didn't know it was going up this much. this is the colorado river. if you with just make out that bridge in the distance there. you usually have to drive halfway across the bridge before you hit the river. today the river has come to the people of la grange. i want to show you here just how high it got up. it's actually starting to recede. that's the water line right there in la grange. so the water has come down. a pretty good example right over

here. it's come down about 2 feet so far. you can see the water here on the roadway and how much it's come down. this little girl is having a great time, a lot of people coming out now. they have pretty much dodged a bullet here. they have about 200 businesses and homes that are completely inundated. they had to evacuate an elderly center early this morning in the overnight hours. they did on an emergent basis. another one they did it just because they were concerned. they were not sure how high that water was going to go. they were expecting 49 feet above flood level. flood level here is 26 feet. it hit 54.5 feet today, it crested. cities downstream are now facing it. columbus, texas, between 9:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. tomorrow, they are looking at the river cresting. they think they are ready for it but they have everything in place and all they can do is wait and hope that the banks hold. chris? >> and that is what it's all pinned on right now, that hope the future rains expected to come, maybe the same number that

already has come, that they'll be okay and, of course, places down river, the need only gets more and more great. all water finds its way to the bayou in that part of the state. miguel, stay safe and stay in contact if we need to tell people something. joining us is thad allen, a former u.s. national incident commander who led the federal response during hurricanes katrina and rita, and we have lisa monaco, adviser to president obama, among her duties coordinating disaster response. thad, give us perspective about what they're dealing with in texas. i was there for katrina. i was there for rita. i know what you did. we haven't seen and hopefully we won't ever see the loss of life in this situation like we did there, but how do the challenges size up from harvey right now? >> well, thanks for having me on, chris. i think we need to understand all these events vary in complexity. what was complex in new orleans may not be what's complex in texas. i think the issue here is are

broad geographic scope. a lot of towns horizontally that have to work across boundaries to apply resources to the highest need in vertical integration from the state and local responders up to the state and federal level. it requires a lot of coordination work together to get it right. they don't know who evacuated and who didn't. so the real challenge is trying to find who needs help out there and find them. >> what's the priority if you were in control right now? >> it's always safety of life. but once you are sure you got everybody that needs to be saved out, then what you need is access. you have to get rid of the water. debris removal paces everything, establishing electrical power and getting basic services back to the individuals. >> first is the obvious priority which is the human need, and they're struggling with that right now for obvious reasons that we can all see on the screen, but for some things that aren't visible which is just where are the people, you're learning a lot about this from anecdote from people about where people might be. that's why we're trying to have

people on tv like we just did and give those addresses through our reporters to first responders in boats, but it seems hard to coordinate that. >> chris, if you don't know who evacuated, you don't know who needs help. you get anecdotal requests through social media and 911 calls. the real challenge is figuring out who is out there that needs to be saved. in new orleans it took two and a half weeks, three sweeps of the city, to find people that needed to come out and then the difficult issue of remains recovery. >> i remember it. i remember it all too well. hopefully we don't see anything like that from harvey. from the outside do they seem to have the resources? >> well, i'm not sure you ever have the right resources in the right place. the ability to reconcile that and put it where it's needed is what's very, very crucial. the communications up and down the chain of command, state and local to the federal government appear to be excellent. i've talked to the folks trying very, very hard. i think the level of collaboration and cooperation is unprecedented. but the challenge is as well.

>> lisa, the president wants to go, he wants people to know that he cares, that the federal government is behind them. it's a tricky measure because there's a big security footprint. it takes resources even if the president doesn't want it to. is it the right move? >> look, it's very important for a president to go to an area that is being devastated, that citizens of the united states are feeling this trauma like you heard from the guest you just had on at the top of the hour. i think the consideration has to be driven, the timing needs to be driven by the state and local officials. they need to assure the white house that there will not be an impact on the response. i will say i was surprised when i saw that the white house announced even before the hurricane had made landfall that the president was thinking of going early this week and then with the announcement that he would go tomorrow given what we're seeing in terms of, as you mentioned, multiple feet more of rain that is likely to fall. but it is important for a president to go.

i think it's a very tricky call. the bottom line needs to be the state and local officials need to make the call about when is appropriate. i've been part of these trips and i've seen what goes into planning a presidential visit to a state or a city that is operating at full capacity and is not afflicted by a disaster. it is a huge undertaking and it stretches a state and local area regardless of the situation. >> nothing public has come out about the president being discouraged from going by the governor or the mayor, and he has been very attentive verbally to the situation. he says the federal government will give everything that you need. what does that wind up being? what is the best use of the federal government? >> first and foremost it is the president's duty and his job -- he did this on friday -- to approve what's called a major disaster declaration and we saw the white house, i think quite appropriately, leaning forward on friday night, even before the hurricane made landfall and

declaring a major disaster. and with that comes two types of aid. one called public assistance to help the public infrastructure get back on its feet and repair it. and the other, critically, is called individual assistance, and that goes to people, individual families, to help them get back on their feet. but the challenge here, chris, it's one thing to declare and sign the paper and say the assistance is coming. it's quite another to get that to the individuals on the ground. >> the logistics. >> the logistics literally getting it to individuals who need to sign up for that assistance. >> and that's why often we wind up seeing the national guard come into play. we know it hasn't happened yet but they are standing at the ready. i need you and thad both to stay because there are more issues to discuss here. there are a lot of things about harvey that are unusual. for instance, the call to citizens, if you have a boat, if you can help, get out there and help. it's unusual to hear in such full throated fashion early on.

but boy, has it made a difference. we'll talk to a member of the cajun navy. that name may sound familiar. they were born back after katrina and they're just regular people who went out there and helped people who wouldn't have made it otherwise. they are now in texas. when our breaking news coverage continues. stay with cnn. hey ron! they're finally taking down that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again? index investing for that low? that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard. what's next, no minimums? ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management.

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that is the main urgency right now. officials can't be sure but hundreds are estimated to be in need of saving in just the houston area alone, an operation made much harder in the dark. we were just talking to a woman. she said it's getting dark now. they say no one can come yet. first responders resources are already strained so word has gone out to anyone who can help. this is unusual for them to engage citizens. if you have a boat, if you're able-bodied, get out there, help your community and the call has been answered time and time again and that includes volunteers with the so-called cajun navy. do you remember that phrase? it came to be in our vocabulary after hurricane katrina. and joining us now on the phone is clyde cain, a member of the navy. clyde, brother, i remember you good men getting after it after katrina, helping the communities, trying to save people for weeks. what brought to you texas? >> well, we waited for an invitation. they called us to come over and

of course we went on our facebook page. we dedicate the navy and called out for boats. and of course all the other groups do the same thing. we got together and we came on over. we've been over in pasadena most of the day, as you guys know. running rescues as best we could with the weather conditions being as they are. >> what are you seeing on the ground and what are you bringing in terms of resources? >> right now we just have our boats here and we've exhausted those numbers. a lot are parked right now because of the weather. other than that we have some resources staged up after this but a we have no idea how long it's going to last. and what i've just heard, which is hearsay for a moment, but the governor is going to be forming something maybe tomorrow, one massive effort to get everybody together, which will probably be

very good for everybody out here now. >> there's a need for coordination. as you know very well in an emergency situation you just get after what you can. how many of you came up? how many boats? >> we brought about 20 boats. we met up at the lake charles civic center. we brought about three boats and met up with leaders who had connections over here and ended up with about 20 boats and as other boats are coming as they contact our page and other pages and groups and been showing up over here at the academy in pasadena. as they've come in we've waited on instructions and we're working underneath others with their contacts. as we get dispatched or told where we can go, we go out and do the best we can. >> well, and you have shown the ability to do that in beautiful fashion. you're an example to many. we're watching your video of all the pickups and the trailers come with the boats. we will coordinate with the producers and you about people contacting us saying they need help. and i want to thank you, clyde, on behalf of all of us who aren't able to help the way you are.

thank you for what you're doing. you're doing god's work down there. be safe and thank you. >> thank you to all the volunteers that have come in, also, a part of the great big cajun navy. >> you know the work that needs to be done. for weeks people will be down there in need. let's thank clyde cain, the cajun navy back at it again. unfortunately they're needed once again. let's bring back thad allen, a former u.s. national incident commander who led the response in hurricane katrina and rita. and lisa monaco, adviser to president obama. among her duties was coordinating disaster response. am i wrong in that? i rebekah. i remember rita. i don't remember the call going out so early. that if you're able to help in any way you uhave a boat -- people were doing it anyway down there in cajun country. but this call, this open if you can get after it, do so, somewhat unusual, isn't it? >> i think it is. but it's also a testament to the scale of what we're seeing down there. >> it's certainly needed. >> it's certainly need it appears.

all the images we're seeing out there and the ability to understand where people are so that we can get the state and local responders can get needed aid to them is going to be an all hands on deck job. >> no question about it. thad, i'm not saying this to be some sugary sweet sentiment, about humanity, this is the reality. these citizens stepped up. the stories are as heavy as the rain in terms of helping one community or another. the woman we had on the phone wouldn't even call 911. she has five feet of water. she says i'm not in a life or death situation. we're holding it together. i'm lucky i still have power. she has been trapped in that house for four days. we're seeing people step up in an unusual fashion here in texas. >> yes. there is a little bit of a dilemma here, chris. if everybody operates as an individual it's almost impossible to direct them and coordinate where to go. the best possible way to do this is to have them affiliate with some not for profit or agency so they can be coordinated as a team together. there's a team called spontaneous unaffiliated

volunteers. they're very well-intentioned. they're trying to help. unless you can bring them into a larger framework it's difficult to manage all the little pieces. >> totally understood. people are bored by them, but the logistics are also the most important component of a successful rescue and a recovery operation. right now they need all hands on deck. when you have people calling you saying we have to get out of our house, no one is coming, anybody who comes is going to be an angel to them. thad, thank you very much. lisa, as always, appreciate the perspective on this. we're going to keep a close eye on the ongoing storms in texas. next there is another story for us to take on tonight. president trump has doubled down basically saying he pardoned joe arpaio because he's a hero. let's test that, after the break. we have a member of congress who supports the pardon, the president, and what sheriff arpaio was doing. steve king joins us next. but they're different. it's nice to remove artificial ingredients. kind never had to.

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sheriff joe loves our country. sheriff joe protected our borders, and sheriff joe was very unfairly treated by the obama administration especially right before an election, an election that he would have won, and he was elected many times. so i stand by my partner, pardon of sheriff joe. and i think the people of arizona who really know him best would agree with me. >> point of fact this whole matter stems from an incident that preceded 2011 so it wasn't just about some election kind of finagling and this was supposed to be law and forward president and this was an order from a federal court sheriff joe decided to ignore. now, what does the law allow? the law certainly allows the president to pardon anyone he wants. this isn't about his ability to do it. it's whether he made the right call. what the law says about what sheriff joe was doing police can ask for documentation of immigration status while in the course of enforcing other laws.

that last part is key. it's also the key to the controversy because arpaio was accused of rounding people up that looked like undocumented immigrants. and this goes back, again, many years. context matters. this was not an isolated incident. arpaio forced incarcerated inmates to live in an outdoor tent city he likened to a concentration camp. he was cited for segregating latinos within the population. he had an unusually high suicide rate of inmates, problems with his officers assaulting people. the contempt order and the instant controversy stems, again, from a 2011 justice department investigation that revealed unfair targeting of latinos during immigration raids and traffic stops. he was ordered to stop. he refused. he boasted about that refusal to reporters, and he was subsequently found by two judges to be this contempt of court. so why does the president see him as a hero? cracking down on undocumented

immigrants is popular with some voters, certainly many in the so-called trump base and -- and -- there could be a personal toll as well. sheriff joe is one of the people who helped trump perpetuate the obama birther myth that prompted then citizen trump to tweet this in 2012. take a look. congratulations to real sheriff joe and a successful cold case posse investigation which claims president barack obama's birth certificate is fake. that wound up being bs, but it still created a bond. and now sheriff joe is reportedly considering a run for the united states senate against, who else, another enemy of the president or at least a political opponent, senator jeff flake. he's been a punching bag for this president. so this is not so much about the law. again, the president has the right to pardon basically anyone he wants to. the question is whether or not it was right to reward joe arpaio for something the federal court found to be wrong. there's the issue. let's discuss it. we have congressman steve king, republican from iowa supports the pardon of sheriff arpaio.

good to see you, as always, congressman. justify the pardon. what is your case? >> well, i watched this unfold, chris, from my seat on the judiciary committee in the house of representatives. we had democrats in majority and we had president obama elected. and i saw that justice department react to what i thought was a political statements of the democrats on the judiciary committee and start to put the squeeze on joe arpaio because they didn't want enforcement of our immigration laws down in maricopa county. i made a trip down there to visit sheriff joe. i wanted to see what was going on. i talked to him at length about his process and his words to me were he was avoiding any kind of ethnic profiling. it's really not race but ethnic profiling, and he was compiling with the law. he had a 287-g agreement. he also had over a period of

time sb-1070, arizona's immigration law, up until such time as the supreme court invalidated parts of it. >> right. >> i said to him, joe, i'll help you. and he said i don't need your help. i have all the authority i need to enforce the law. >> the law gets tricky and i think this is more about the morality than the legality. frankly. i'll talk to you about the law in one second. this is about morality. sb-1070 got knocked down the supreme court in part, not completely. you're allowed to ask for immigration documentation in the enforcement of other laws. joe arpaio wasn't doing that. h he was cited by the justice department for rounding up people who looked like they could be illegal immigrants. it screamed of profiling. it wasn't a new practice and you know this. you know this. you know who joe arpaio is and was. so do i. this wasn't about the law because the law is -- the federal government does immigration not the states. you can't be in contradiction to federal law. and federal law doesn't allow profiling. that's what joe arpaio was doing. two different judges said it. >> well, actually i disagree to a degree, chris.

and the first thing is that who would have imagined the federal government who had support from a state that passed a statute that was designed to match up exactly with federal law so they could support federal law, who would have imagined that later on the supreme court would find parts of that unconstitutional? i don't agree with their decision, but joe arpaio couldn't have known that when he put his program in place. joe arpaio was living underneath the 287-g or with the 287-g program which is federal authorization to enforce immigration law and there is no federal law against profiling. >> profiling is wrong. it is found wrong under the law. it is found wrong as a practice by the justice department. that is what they told joe arpaio he was doing and they said stop it. >> i don't agree. >> what don't you agree with? >> i don't agree profiling is wrong. in fact, if you would take profiling away from the tools of

law enforcement, you couldn't describe a criminal in any way whatsoever. i will say that -- >> you're simplifying the issue, congressman. what happens when you profile? >> that's not generalized. there's a difference between racial profiling and a broader profiling with all of the descriptions that are there. i say it's wrong and the justice department has issued a directive that says you shall not racially profile if that's the only component. but if it's a component in broader profile -- >> what broader profile? he was rounding up brown people. he was rounding up brown people, some of who wound up being citizens. and that's what his guys were doing, and what did his defense lawyer say? after all the bravado to reporters saying i'm going to continue, i don't care what the judges say. that's called contempt by definition, by the way. and this is supposed to be a law and order presidency. >> i don't agree. with him defying the federal judge. >> hold on, congressman. if you don't agree with him, then you agree with him being convicted of the crime because that's what he was convicted of.

>> not necessarily. >> it was a contempt order. he violated it. he then said through his lawyer that he unintentionally violated the law. it was an unclear order. i know this is his lawyers, but joe arpaio had a chance to do it the right way and he didn't and he boasted about it. now you're defending his flouting of the law. why? >> i'm saying this, i don't agree with him for defying the judge's order. but we also should remember judge snow issued an order that was judge-made law, and it wasn't consistent with federal statute. and there is nobody that can quote a federal statute, a law against what joe arpaio did. and he said mistakes were made. that's how he defined what happened. but i don't know how you enforce immigration law in arizona and not have some hispanics caught up in that effort. >> nobody is saying that you're not going to have hispanics caught up in it or latinos caught up in it. it's that you're not supposed to just be looking -- >> but you said he rounded up

brown people. >> that's what he did. i'm not saying it. it's what the justice department said and you're well affair of these facts whether or not you agree with the facts. whether or not you agree with his practices is something else. >> how are you going to enforce immigration law? every once in a while you get somebody who is a citizen by accident. >> yes, i know. i know. it wasn't by accident. it wasn't by accident. that's the whole point. he was ordered not to do the practice anymore and he boasted that he would. what was the practice? the practice was rounding up people just because they looked like they might be undocumented immigrants. the facts were never in question. joe arpaio never said the court had it wrong. >> chris, let's remember this. >> he said he was going to keep doing it anyway. and i think you're defending it because you like what he was doing. >> remember this, every law enforcement officer in the united states of america up until the obama administration had authority to assist and participate and initiate the immigration enforcement. they had that. and the obama administration turned this around and they used clinton appointee judges to make

judge-made law. and joe arpaio had the rules changed on him in the middle of things and, yes, he defied the order of the judge but he didn't violate federal law. he violated -- [ inaudible ]. >> the supreme court comes up with ruling 53. scalia, may he rest in peace, didn't like it. there was dissent. nobody is saying there wasn't. it was the law of the land. that's what the supremacy laws would dictate, right? so they come forth and say you can't just go round up brown folks because you think they might be illegal aliens, as joe arpaio would call them. you have to be enforcing another law. you can ask for immigration papers. if they don't have them, you proceed on that basis. the law was clear. there was a standard -- >> we should remember -- >> he flouted it. >> we should remember, though, sb-1070 specifically prohibited targeting people because of race or ethnicity. it specifically prohibited that. but president obama made the statement that you could be a hispanic mother and presumably be going out for ice cream, be pulled over, stopped, and have them demand your papers. >> do you like that?

>> i don't like it at all but the language in sb-1070 prohibited that there be anyone targeted because of race or ethnicity for that specific purpose. as long as it is part of a list of other things, profiling is necessary for law enforcement. racial profiling set by itself is wrong. >> you say racial profiling as if that wouldn't capture what was happening here. obviously if you were targeting a group of people because of their demographic qualities, their physical qualities, not their behavior, you're going to run into trouble with the law and that's what joe arpaio was doing. and he was found in contempt by two different judges. so now the president, who is the law and order president, he says. we must respect the rule of law unless he doesn't like that rule of law, and then he calls the man who flouted the law a hero and pardons him. he takes away every sense the justice system judged him and found lacking. do you agree with that?

>> no, not the way it's characterized. i will say this. i have been making this case on the judiciary committee, on the airwaves, and i don't remember if i've written about it or not. i'm concerned americans believe the broader definition, not racial profiling but profiling itself, that they believe somehow there's a federal law against it and that it's wrong. i want to make the point it's necessary for law enforcement. >> it gets slippery. >> to categorize the people they're looking for. >> it gets slippery. >> yes. and that's why there's a directive from the justice department. i think that's an appropriate directive. >> and the sheriff flouted it. why is it a slippery slope? you've lived this slippery slope. because when you start learning about some, you start judging all. and that's where the cantaloupe came from, right? i know you've apologized for it. i know you said it was taken out of context. >> no, that's not right, chris, but i'm a little surprise you'd brought that up. it was about drug smugglers. and i insist i have the right to insult drug smugglers. i have the right to insult drug smugglers.

>> it's not whether you have the right, it's whether it is right. >> it was the critical thing to do and an accurate characterization of them. >> congressman, it's silly. >> it's not. it's accurate. and the statement that i made is completely and deem strablly true. >> that people who struggle drugs have cantaloupe calves and that's how you know. >> because they're carrying 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert. and if you haven't seen the film you ought to google it. >> i've lived it. i've been there. >> and so i have. i've been there for over a decade. i've seen it in different evolutions. we're doing a documentary on it that comes out in the fall. the point is this. when you judge some and you make them a reflection of all, it's a slippery slope that was the problem with what you said. that was the problem with what joe arpaio did. >> -- because i insulted drug smugglers and that's a characterization that i'm concerned about. >> you insulted latinos by

saying the calves show they're drug smugglers. >> except the drug smugglers. that's silly. that's not what i've said. not what people characterize as what i said. and i will stand on that statement for a lifetime. it's accurate. it's objective, and it's a fair characterization. and it came from the border patrol who deal with it every day. and i go down there and ride with them and spend my time. >> we were talking about this. i couldn't find one border patrol agent who says yeah we can always tell the drug smugglers by the size of their calves. >> well, they're afraid of me, chris. >> nobody is afraid of me, chris. certainly not you. >> they're not going to give you that answer. >> it creates an ugly reality. joe arpaio revelled in. that he liked disgracing latino people. he liked to separate them. he called his tent cities concentration camp. >> dreamers as valedictorians. i think we talked over each other. >> congressman, i heard what you

said. and you do have valedictorians in a lot of that population, the daca, deferred for childhood arivals. 96% -- >> drug smugglers that will slip in under daca definitions. that's what that statement is about. i had to shake them by their shoulders. how can i make that delegation. >> how can you make the calculation that minorities who come here are 100-1 drug smugglers students or good workers? >> you know, of all of the critics in the press not one critic came forward with a single valedictorian. and i can show you drug smugglers to no end down there. and you surely got that interest the border patrol. if not it wasn't a valid experience on the border. >> but just being a valedictorian ask what made you a good student and employee, you and i would be locked up. >> i don't know. well might have been in debate class somewhere together. >> a member of society contributing. 96% of these daca people are

either in school or they're working. and they're doing well. >> i want them to respect the rule of law. >> they were brought here as kids. >> either they or their parents didn't respect the rule of law, and no, they didn't all come as kids. some did. many didn't. they're up to 37 years old now. >> now. now they are. >> ms-13 didn't wait until they were 18 before they brought them into the united states and a vast majority of ms-13 are illegal aliens. >> ms-13 is a real gang. it's an organized criminal organization. we're not talking about them. they're criminals. they're violent. what they do is an extension of their criminality. they should be judged a certain way. when you find them you get rid of them. no one argues about that. it's the other kids who came in as kids and they're just supposed to turn themselves in ten years later when they realize how they got here? you think that is what america is about, congressman? i'll give you the last word. >> and what about their parents then? if it was against their will then it had to be their parents that are responsible. and i'm still waiting for the first daca recipient to say so

and sign an affidavit that says i didn't really do this of my own accord. my parents brought me in. they should have the law enforced against them. give me amnesty. i'm not hearing that from the daca people. >> it's a shock. congressman, we'll leave this conversation here. it's a bigger discussion and i'm always happy to have it with you. thank you for coming on the show tonight. congressman steve king. >> thanks, chris. let's build a wall and restore the rule of law. thanks. >> one step at a time. president trump's pardon of joe arpaio is another point of division in the country. it certainly didn't help matters. trump says arpaio is a hero. you just heard a congressman defend that decision. two federal judges disagree. we're also going to continue watching the storms and flooding in texas. there's more water on the way and there are people in need of rescue. stay with us. time for a getawa. the lincoln summer invitation is on. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc. and the versatile midsize lincoln mkx.

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so what do you think? was pardoning former sheriff joe arpaio the right thing to do? it's not about the law. it's the about the morality, about the sheriff violated a court order from two federal judges. congressman steve king from iowa said profiling is what he says profiling is doing is necessary for law enforcement. he draws a distinction between profiling and racial profiling. that gets a little confusing. general sake, former white house communications director, and former state department person and former pennsylvania senator rick santorum, cnn senior political commentator. what did you hear in that discussion, rick? what are the merits of the

discussion from your perspective? >> well, what i heard with respect to what steve king was saying is that joe arpaio did violate the law. obviously you wouldn't be pardoned if you weren't convicted of something. that's what i'm finding a little confusing here, that you're saying it's the morality of it, and all of these other factors. but you don't get pardoned unless you did something wrong and that you are going to be sentence order even in fact were sentenced and convicted. obviously joe arpaio wasn't sentenced yet. but uthere is no doubt that joe arpaio broke the law. so otherwise we wouldn't be talking about a pardon. so i'm not too sure i understand. >> you're misunderstanding what i'm saying. i'm saying the president's ability legally to pardon is not a real issue. he has almost complete authority to pardon anybody he wants, other than in matters of impeachment. >> you just find this particular offense very heinous. >> that's the issue. >> an extraordinarily heinous offense. >> it doesn't have to be heinous to be morally wrong, i don't think.

your catholicism is stronger than mine. >> do you suggesting -- >> do you agree with the pardon? >> are you suggesting these other people who were pardoned didn't do wrong things? let's go back through every one of the obama pardons. i think you'd see -- there. >> are different levels and different issues. do you agree with the pardon just to get an answer? >> i don't agree with the timing of the pardon. i think he should have been sentenced. maybe he should have served some time. that would have been my preference. but as far as the actual pardon, i probably would have done it myself at some point, yes. jen psaki, you pardoned lots of people, bad people. so why should there be any outrage about what the new president is doing? what is your response? >> well, look. i think on the legal front that. >> went through a process and a consideration that went through the department of justice. and that didn't happen here, which i think is raising a lot of red flags for people. but chris, i think to your morality point, the issue here is this is ripping open -- he is

almost a symbol of a lot of the racial divisions that have been a part of our country and our fabric for decades about the treatment, the disparity of treatment between people of different racial backgrounds by law enforcement officials. and that is a painful reminder to a lot of people of that. so that's why. needed unity and not division. >> rick. >> i would say that's probe going to be the case in any high profile part. you go back to private manning and the decision by president obama to give that pardon. that certainly ripped open a lot of wounds that a lot of people was harmed by the informing that was leaked. i'd say it was an immorale -- >> but president obama didn't say what chelsea manning did was

okay, in fact she's a hero. >> and he commuted her. >> right. the president's reckoning was she served enough looking in other cases in similar nature and context. this is enough time so -- >> but what president trump is saying here isn't, he's done enough time, it's, he don't nothing wrong. violating two federal orders, two judges found him in contempt, doesn't find anything wrong with that he's a hero do you like that message rick? >> i don't like that message. i think there's certainly a lot of evidence out there that he wasn't treated fairly by the system. i think it's one thing to do that and another thing to rebel in suggesting that he was a hero. i think in some respects, if you look at his history, certainly he served this country if a lot of different respects and served it admirably. if he's referring to other thing

in the service in what he did he's referring to having a long record if our country. >> he has a long record that's for sure. we'll let the historians sort it out. thank guys. up next we're going to look at how mother nature's hardest punches have brought out the best in all of us. highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms... again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. whyou're not thinking clearly, so they called the fire department for us. i could hear crackling in the walls. my mind went totally blank. all i remember saying was, "my boyfriend's beating me"

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the hurricane is mother nature at her worst but it's brought out human nature at its best. >> guys jumping in to help out? >> yes, sir. >> where are you coming from? >> dick, city. >> what are you going to try to do? v >> save some lives. >> that manning coming from his own home to help others. he isn't the only one running or waiting towards the flood waters. a group of residences pulled

dogs out of the water and saved them on boats. we've seen it time and time again people going out of their way to help others in need. some people in houston approaching the situation with a sense of humor. it's one of those laugh or cry moments. on a tough day after a tough weekend we'll hopefully leave you with a smile on your face as one houston family made the flooding of their living room literally, literally fishing for dinner. >> oh my god. >> that's not making the best of a bad situation, i don't know what is. thank you for watching us. "cnn tonight" is next. i was in a coma. well, i still deserve appreciation. who was there for you when you had amnesia? you know i can't remember that. stop this madness. if it's appreciation you want

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your voice is awesome. the x1 voice remote. xfinity. the future of awesome. breaking news, people are so in need of being rescued right now down in texas, along the gulf and what's happening with this hurricane. someone's going to join us in just moments who's in desperate need of help, water rushing into her pardon me she's there with her 1-year-old. thousands trapped. more rain on the way. president trump offers federal help from the government as he prepares to travel to the flood zone