♪ we'll be doing for tv what fm did for radio. >> there are some that have accused your videos of being soft porn. >> we like to call them tastefully smutty. >> they never had any problems saying how they feel. u2. >> what are your dreams? >> to rule the world. >> michael jackson is the man of the '80s. >> music to a beat and talk. it's rap music. ♪ my life is over ♪ so i might as well speak my mind ♪ >> heavy metal.

it glorifies sex and violence. it hates authorities. and adolescent boys love it. >> this weird beastly presentation that was birthed in the pit of hell. ♪ ♪ ♪

john lennon was shot by an unknown at this time white male. >> the world has reacted with immense shock and grief to the first rock and roll assassination. >> it was like in one moment the '60s and the '70s got murdered. >> in his life he's given more love than most men and women on the face of this earth. we're here to prove that love is not dead, even though john is. >> you start the decade with the death of a beatle. you don't really know where you're going to go from that point. you know, culturally or musically. >> for a while it seemed there was nothing new on the horizon. announcing the latest achievement in home entertainment. the power of sight. the power of sound. >> stereo. >> mtv. music television. ♪ >> we all are so excited about this new concept in tv. we'll be doing for tv what fm did for radio.

>> at the time the world was saying we don't think anybody's going to watch videos over and over. but we knew we had something special. ♪ my little pretty one, pretty one ♪ ♪ when you gonna give me some time sharona ♪ >> mtv made you feel like those artists were in the room. you had a personal concert all day. ♪ crack that whip >> when you have the rotation of, say, maybe 100 different videos being rotated over and over on mtv, they do a great job of exposing new acts. ♪ here in my car ♪ ♪ >> britain was ahead of the curve. they had a ton of videos in their inventory. and that was what paved the way for this accidental second british invasion. >> if you look at some of the groups on the popular music charts in america today you can't help asking where on earth did they come from? well, the answer is the same today as it was two decades ago. they come from britain.

>> the music isn't anything like the famous group that came from there, the beatles. >> you've got to understand, they were 20 years ago. we're a new generation. a new wave. ♪ you were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar ♪ ♪ when i met you >> by the early 1980s new wave is used to describe these sleek dressy cool bands that are coming out of england. ♪ don't you want me baby ♪ don't you want me, oh >> british artists all understood how to use visuals in a way that i think american artists didn't necessarily get that quickly. ♪ do you really want to hurt me ♪ ♪ do you really want to make me cry ♪ >> do you really want to hurt me is a good song. it's a song old people like and young people like. so i think the proof is in the pudding. buy it and eat it. >> mtv actually met with duran duran's managers and said we're

looking for kind of like james bond videos on location. and their managers are the ones that went to the band members and said look, we really need to up the ante with these clips. you know, we need to give this channel something they've never seen before. ♪ moving up the floor now babe you're a bird on paradise ♪ >> there are some that have accused your videos of being soft porn. >> well, excuse me! >> we like to call them tastefully smutty. ♪ her name is rio and she dances on the sand ♪ ♪ just like that river twisting through the dusty land ♪ ♪ >> when i first met duran duran, they were saying that they thought they looked like rock stars. so why not become rock stars. ♪ don't stand ♪ don't stand so

♪ don't stand so close to me >> why do you think we're so popular over there? >> well, there's a tradition that goes back over the past 20 years from the days of the beatles and the rolling stones where british bands seem to be better at it than americans. >> the police have sold 4 million albums in one year. "rolling stone" chose them as best new band of the year. taking note of the swirling, dreamy soaring quality of the sound. ♪ giant steps are what you take ♪ ♪ walking on the moon >> it was incredible to see them. and i couldn't believe what i was hearing out of three people. i was shocked. >> i once read that you were called the pink floyd of the '80s. what do you think of that? >> we're not at all. we're the cure of the '80s. ♪ >> the holy trinity of

alternative british music is the cure, depeche mode, and the smiths. all three of them started out as these fringe bands that by the end of the '80s were selling out stadiums. ♪ will you take the pain ♪ i give to you again an again ♪ and will you return it [ cheers and applause ] >> what's new order? computer programmers or musicians? >> i'd say neither, actually. >> what are you, then? >> bank robbers. ♪ how does it feel ♪ to treat me like you do >> in the u.k. disco did not suck. it never sucked. and bands like new order combined it with the new synthesizer sound and they gave us these incredible songs that got us out on the dance floor. ♪ what i need to say

>> i like what's happening at dance places now, over the last year or two. i think the music is becoming very healthy. this golden opportunity features steel titanium and carbon fiber. raw elements made exhilarating... by lexus. experience uncompromising performance at the lexus golden opportunity sales event before it ends. choose from the is turbo, es 350 or nx turbo for $299 a month for 36 months if you lease now. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. (vo) it would be great if human beings were great at being human. and if all of mankind were made up of kind women and kind men. it would be wonderful if common knowledge

was knowledge commonly known. and if the light from being enlightened into every heart was shown. it would be glorious if neighbors were neighborly. and 'indifference' a forgotten word. it would be awesome if we shared everything and being greedy was absurd. it would be spectacular if the golden rule was golden to every man. and the good things that we ever did was everything that we can. (vo 2) treating others like we'd like to be treated has always been our guiding principle. hi. lookthe whole fam. hooked they sure did! guy-who-used-to-ask-if-you-could -hear-him-now-with-verizon? ...or just paul. we've been up here for ages. you should switch to sprint like i did. nowadays, every network is great! but with sprint, you're not paying a ton for unlimited or overages.

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it has done wonders for the sagging record industry. it has made overnight stars of rock groups whose records had been gathering dust. >> the first since 1978 business is up and the reason is music videos. ♪ >> we had no idea that music videos would have that much of an impact on the musical

culture. it changed the entire dynamic of what you had to do as far as promotion was concerned. you had to be a performance artist as well as a musician. ♪ >> the intelligent ones recognized that it's a marriage between the visual artist and the musician at this point. ♪ monkey ♪ don't you know you're going to shock the monkey ♪ >> the man or the woman who finds the right combination will take it all. ♪ let's dance ♪ put on your red shoes and dance the blues ♪ >> when david and i decided that we were going to work together, it was pretty clear to me that david wanted to make a commercial album. now i'm going to go make a pop record. but it was going to be his version of pop. >> my songs always tend to be impressionistic or even have a surreal quality to them. and on this album is the first time i've really tried to adapt

to a didactic kind of approach to songwriting. ♪ if you should fall into my arms ♪ ♪ tremble like a flower >> artists in the '80s, david bowie for that matter, realized if you wanted to make it you needed to be on mtv. >> but there's one group that's not happy with mtv. many black artists who have been told their music doesn't fit the format. >> that's what's happening. we're being sat in the back of the bus television style. and if pittman gets away with this and there are other cable shows that do it they're going to try it. >> mtv doesn't exclude black acts. what mtv does exclude is music that is not rock and roll. >> mtv came out with no consideration on how to infuse black music into their mix. >> i'm just floored by the fact there are so few black artists featured on it. why is that? >> we have to try and do what we think not only new york and los angeles will appreciate but also

some town in the midwest that will be scared to death by prince or a string of other black faces. >> interesting. okay. thank you very much. >> when are we going to see anybody of color on mtv, because you said music television. when are you going to start covering all genres of music? >> music shouldn't have color. i don't believe in that. i don't want it labeled black or white, i want it labeled music. [ cheers and applause ] [ "billie jean" ] ♪ >> 1983, motown has this big tv special, motown's 25th anniversary. at that time "thriller" is out and "thriller" is doing well. but michael jackson couldn't get "billie jean" on mtv. ♪ she was more like a beauty queen from a movie scene ♪ >> when the rest of the world was going crazy and he can't get

on mtv? michael jackson? come on. ♪ >> when he does that moonwalk, if you were sitting on the couch by the end of it you were on the floor in front of the tv. you couldn't believe what you were seeing. >> i would say the moonwalk was really one of the first viral moments that affected rock history. the next week "thriller" started selling a million copies a week. >> i like michael jackson because he's bad, he knows how to dance. >> he's so sexy and so gorgeous. >> he's exciting! >> michael jackson is the man of the '80s. >> mtv starts to get pressure from cbs records, which was michael jackson's label. >> rock and roll in itself was really the thing that broke a lot of rules. when you're very successful, you try to make your own rules occasionally. >> as the story goes, cbs essentially said we will pull every other artist we have on mtv if you don't play this. they had to be essentially blackmailed into doing it.

♪ it doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ ♪ just beat it >> he was the artist that mtv really needed. they didn't know they needed him, but boy, when we started to see those michael jackson videos, it was just unbelievable. then there was the domino effect. suddenly you see prince videos from warner brothers do the same thing. ♪ tonight ♪ we're gonna party like it's 1999 ♪ >> prince wasn't just materializing out of nowhere. where was he before this video was done? >> prince was a huge star on black radio stations. i mean, people -- he had a underground cult following and he was a very sexy, hot performer. ♪ the sweat of your body covers me ♪ ♪ can you, my darling, can you picture this ♪ >> prince loved the idea that he was taking his punk funk music and turning it on to a white audience, and that wouldn't have happened if not for mtv.

♪ this is what it sounds like when doves cry ♪ >> when i was younger, i always said that one day i was going to play all kinds of music and not be judged for the color of my skin but the quality of my work. ♪ only want to see you ♪ only want to see you ♪ in the purple rain >> prince had a great androgyny. he blurred the gender line. he sings, he writes, he plays. every time i see him it's just like, really? okay, i quit. ♪ >> when he plays guitar, it's just part of his body in a way that i've never really seen before. and it's not contrived. it's just -- it's just happening. >> what was his music? was it r&b? his music was just straight down the middle mainstream grab you

by the throat and balls pop. ♪ ♪ we go down to the river and into the river we die ♪ >> at this point a lot of it is about being there, which is why we haven't done too much of the video thing. a lot of it allows too much distance. like what our band is about is about breaking down distance. ♪ at night i wake up >> bruce was all about credibility and intelligence and integrity. so how would he translate his music and his attitude toward the world to what seemed like this frivolous world of the music video? bruce is not going to be next to a winking model on a sailboat. ♪ you can't start a fire ♪ you can't start a fire without a spark ♪ ♪ this gun's for hire >> he ends up doing essentially a concert video starring a then unknown courteney cox.

it's like this weird recreation of something that organically happens in a bruce springsteen concert. ♪ born in the usa >> if there was an artist in the '80s who transcended the music video he's the guy. he's the guy that didn't need to do great music videos to still be a great artist. he's bruce springsteen. it was great music. ♪ born in the usa ♪ ♪ hi! leaving a career to follow a calling takes courage.

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it is unlikely they are going to abandon their nuclear program. you are behind a rock and a hard place if you're president trump. how do you deal with this? there are options, but it seems like the options they are pursuing now are having the alternative effect. what it seems like they have to do is just try to put more pressure on china as seems to be one of the only leverages they have now. >> and at that point, not to cut you off, but i want to welcome our viewers in the united states and everyone watching from around the world. you are joining us for breaking news out of north korea. speaking to ian in seoul. let's bring you up to speed with what we know now. there are reports of an earthquake in north korea not long after pyongyang claimed to have a nuclear weapon. the u.s. geological survey said it was a 6.3 magnitude explosion. it is unclear if this was actually a nuclear test. we want to be clear.

we do not know this as a fact. it has not been confirmed yet. what we can tell you is that south korean officials say they believe the tremor was manmade. north korean state media said they had a hydrogen bomb and ran these images you are looking at now on screen. they put these out, purporting to show kim jong-un inspecting the device. let's go now to will ripley who joins me now on the line from tokyo. will, you are just back from north korea. as you say, you are just waking up in tokyo now. you were in north korea the last couple of days. when you were there, was there any indication that there was a nuclear test on the horizon? >> well, all last week when we were reporting for north korea we reiterated that it was around this time last year they conducted their fifth nuclear test. that nuclear test happened

shortly before the end of the joint military drills between the u.s. and south korea which always infuriate the north korean government. this infur yated them for a long time. a week before the drills ended last week they conducted their fifth nuclear tests. the drills this year ended on thursday. while we saw that provocative launch over japan, north korea didn't give any warning of an impending nuclear test. what they have done is put out messaging over the past couple of days talking about their nuclear program and how it is increasingly advanced and urging the united states to shift the longstanding position of not acknowledging north korea as a nuclear weapons state. this is something north korea is demanding as a precondition for any kind of discussion with the united states and its allies. that the notion that north korea throw away its nuclear program,

be taken off the table. north korea says it won't happen no matter what sanctions or diplomatic pressure is on them. they believe they have made too much progress and they believe these weapons are the leverage that will guarantee down the road long-term a better future, a better life for the north korean people. the north koreans will come to the diplomatic table from a position of strength as opposed to what the united states would like to see which is a crippled north korean regime becoming financially desperate enough to have discussions and perhaps throw away the nuclear program. we got in there last week. there were a number of discussions. they said time and again that's not going to happen. what the latest test demonstrates is an increase in their abilities. the earthquake that was created by last year's explosion around this time was 5.3. this is a 6.3 magnitude explosion. it is a much larger nuclear device they tested. they also put out a picture of

north korea's supreme leader kim jong-un standing next to what looks like and what north korea claims is a miniaturized nuclear warhead being loaded on a ballistic missile. north korea said they have an increasing capability and they are calling on the u.s. to change their position on acknowledging north korea as a nuclear weapons state. then perhaps there could be talks on north korea's terms. i thought when i was in pyongyang a couple of days ago perhaps that meant that the situation would deescalate and this would go into a holding pattern for a while. clearly after the bomber and fighter jet fly over on the korean peninsula north korea has upped the ante in a big way. they are not concerned about sanctions or international condemnation. they are going all in on this strategy to show the world that they are becoming increasingly advanced with the nuclear arsenal. they put out a news bulletin in the past 12 hours saying these

warheads are 100% home made. which means they say they have all the materials they need to build these nuclear weapon s inside north korea now. they don't need to trade with other countries to build these weapons. they say you can try cutting us off but we can build as many as we want. if you continue this policy we'll continue building more and more weapons and become more of a threat to the international community including the mainland u.s. >> will, the point you made about having the capabilities to build the components for the nuclear ballistic devices internally was one that struck me as i read the reporting put out by k cna, the state media. looking at a north korea that's gone past the point of any return. essentially if what they are claiming is true, if they are

completely willing to ignore sanctions and the threat of more significant action, at this point you have to ask what's left on the table in terms of a means for bargaining with north korea. >> the united states has leverage in bargaining with north korea. north korea has long wanted normalized relations with the united states. they have wanted a more normalized relationship with much of the international community. what north korean officials have been telling me for years, this last trip was my 14th trip to north korea over the last three years. every single trip they used the same terminology. they say the united states has, in their eyes a hostile policy. they would like that to change. from the united states' perspective this is difficult. what north korea has done by testing these nuclear devices and launching missiles is in flagrant violation of international law. so for a long time the united states government has said why would we reward a country that's

violating international law repeatedly and flagrantly and by acknowledging them as a nuclear weapons state or being willing to have discussions, give them concessions. there are people in the united states that feel any assistance, any aid given to north korea has only gone to further strengthen their development of the nuclear arsenal. there is another viewpoint they have come so far with these weapons that if the world continues its strategy that's proven to be a failure and in fact vladimir putin just a couple of days ago said he believes putting pressure on north korea's rhetoric, sanctions he believes will make the situation more dangerous. north korea has shown the world that despite round after round, round seven of u.n. security sanctions was passed. despite all of that. despite attempts to cut them off they have found ways to get

around the sanctions to continue bringing in money through any means necessary and possible. and they have continued to advance. more quickly than analysts believed they would. now you have yet another apparent nuclear test at the nuclear test site creating an explosion so powerful it could be felt across the border in china. you have north korea saying they are not worried about what china will do. they are not worried about the united states is going to do, japan or south korea. they are going to do what they see as necessary to protect their national sovereignty and more importantly for them to continue to have leverage over the rest of the world. they have essentially created a scenario where even though the united states is far more wealthy and far more powerful north korea has something that the united states is going to be hard-pressed to find a response to.

military analysts would say a military option against north korea would be far too dangerous. the humanitarian consequences would be catastrophic. what option does it leave the united states? the united states needs to talk with north korea. a lot of people in washington don't like to reward them for bad, illegal behavior. if they don't others say this is going to continue to escalate and become more dangerous. north korea is not stopping nuclear development. >> will ripley joining us on the line with great insight. we appreciate it. stand by for us. we'll come back to you for your expertise. we want to take a minute and bring in colonel rick francona from oregon, a cnn military analyst and retired lieutenant colonel. thank you for being with us. as will just said is it time for

the u.s. to speak to north korea and to come to the table without the expectation that this is a state that can be denuclearized? is it time to let go of the idea especially in light of everything we have heard in the last couple of hours? the possible nuclear test and the sense that they may have, indeed, been able to conquer hydrogen technology, hydrogen nuclear technology. >> if you listen to the statements made by secretary of defense mattis and secretary of state rex tillerson we are getting to that point. they have to keep up the standard u.s. position that we will not discuss things with north korea until they disavow themselves of a nuclear program. most people realize and will gave an excellent rundown. i don't think there is a chance the north koreans will give up this program. this is in their constitution. they believe it is in their strategic national interest. they believe it is the only thing that keeps them from being

over taken, attacked by the united states. whether that's true or not isn't important. it is their perception. it is the perception of their people. that's what they believe. that they have to have the strategic nuclear deterrent to keep themselves in power. as long as that's the case, i don't see anything that's going to make them want to discuss giving up their nuclear weapons. what's the option? the united states has to determine how to live with a nuclear armed north korea. we have lived with others in the past -- russia and the chinese. we have been able to develop a deterrent posture with them. mutually assured destruction. the north koreans know any attack on the united states would be met with overwhelming military force leading to the end of the country. kim jong-un doesn't want to use a weapon. he wants to own them because he believes that gives him leverage. that's what makes him a viable world power. >> colonel francona, has the

north korea leader backed the u.s. president into a corner? i say that in light of president trump's statements of fire and fury, if north korea continues to escalate threats and carry out provocative actions. well, what now? what now from president trump? president trump drew a line which north korea swiftly jumped over. what now for the president? >> if you look -- you go back in history. we have been dealing with this problem for years, for decades. it was always kick the can down the road. they don't have the technology. they are not ready yet. we still have time. well, we don't have time anymore. the koreans ramped up this program. they have acquired these capabilities much faster than most people thought they could. now we are faced with the end game. we have to do something. so it's not that they backed president trump into a corner. they backed the united states into a corner.

they have done this successfully for each presidential administration. now there is no more road to kick the can onto. we are where the rubber meets the road. something needs to happen. we have to determine what our policy will be rather than saying we have time. we don't have time. >> are you surprised by how quickly they are moving with their nuclear program, how quickly the tests are ha iin ha. how are they doing it? >> they put their entire national resources into it. this is their number one priority. every resource they have, all of the top scientists in the country are working on these programs. we have concurrent programs. you have the nuclear weapons and the ballistic missiles. they are both important. these technologies combine into

a capability they want. we are almost there. in fact, if what kim jong-un demonstrated today is real, they have achieved that combination of the two technologies. and so am i surprised? you know, the north koreans are good engineers. i have seen a lot of their equipment over the years. we have gotten our hands on some of it. it's well made, well engineered. am i surprised they have the capability to do it? not really. i am surprised at the speed which they are developing. the timeline is compressing so fast. as i say, they are developing capabilities faster than we are coming up with policies to deal with it. >> yeah, very true. colonel, please stay with us. we want to keep your valuable insight. we are going to hit pause for a second. adam mountain joins us from washington. thank you so much for joining us. let's get your reaction to what could well be north korea's

sixth nuclear test. >> it does look like it was a sixth nuclear test. the magnitude was higher than previous tests. earlier tonight north korea released photographs of what it said was a two-stage thermonuclear weapon, an advanced system. it said the warhead could fit in an icbm. in fact, that it was loaded into an icbm they say is capable of reaching the continental united states. we can't verify all of the details they released in the statement. this appears to have been a very large test. they have boosted the yield of their weapons. we need to take that capability seriously. >> take it seriously and respond how from the u.s. perspective? >> well, the interesting thing is a thermonuclear weapon doesn't necessarily mean deterrence is impossible.

you can devastate a city with a hiroshima-style bomb like the one we dropped. we already knew the north koreans had that. this would up the yield. it would be capable of greater devastation and damage. but the facts about deterrence, what the united states and allies need to do to prevent north korea from using a nuclear weapon are roughly the same. we expect that north korea doesn't want to utilize a weapon out of the blue to attack the u.s. homeland. we think they would want to use one if it felt the regime was facing i vags. the first priority is to re-establish a strong defensive posture on the peninsula to ensure the weapons are never used. >> what does that look like? i mean, there is already the construction of the t.h.a.d. anti-missile system in south

korea. what are you talking about? strengthening defense pacts between the u.s. and allies, japan and south korea? break it down for us. >> the trump administration has not mounted a firm and visible response that north korea has tested missiles at an accelerated pace throughout the spring or this icbm which was a critical time for the united states. one thing we should be looking at is what are the new military capabilities, defensive military capabilities that could help to prevent north korea from agresing. agresing against allied forces. one thing that concerned me tonight was the statement that kcna released with the photographs saying this nuclear warhead was capable of variable

yield. they could dial down the yield to a lower yield which suggests that north korea is not just thinking about having a capability to retaliate against american cities in the event of invasion, but in fact they are thinking about how to use the nuclear weapons for blackmail, potentially to use them in a wider range of circumstances and situations. the priority now should be to abandon this fool'ser rand to draw out of the free trade agreement announced today. stand tough with allies and make sure we have the capabilities necessary to deny north korea from any kind of aggression. at low levels of escalation and at the nuclear level. >> adam, let me ask you this question which people are divided on. where do you stand on this point of the u.s. saying that talks with north korea will not

proceed unless north korea expresses the willingness or takes action to freeze its nuclear program and ultimately denuclearize. is that a fool's errand? >> i think denuclearization is an important long-term goal. >> is it realistic? >> i think we should think of it as a long-term goal, not as a short-term solution. the short-term priorities are in deterrence and defense, strengthening american alliances. if they focused too much on denuclearization they are starting to overlook the near-term imperatives. the other important thing that happened is talks could stand a reasonable chance of promoting stability on the peninsula. you have to abandon this insistence on going for broke with denuclearization in order to get there. in august the united states and north korea said they restrained

themselves from taking provocative action. north korea in slowing the missile tempo, the united states in refraining from flights. unfortunately neither of these restraint messages got across. there was miscommunication. neither side was willing to take the first step in solidifying that regime of restraint. if we are going to maintain deterrence and want any hope of slowing missile tests they've got to have the direct talks that are focused on arms control and the peninsula. >> before i let you go, we have to talk china. this administration has placed a great amount of faith in china's ability to rein in north korea. not just this administration. past administrations have also made the point because it is true china is the north's biggest trading partner and have significant leverage that has not led to north korea changing its actions.

what is your expectation in terms of a response from beijing in light of this possible sixth nuclear test and after the sanctions passed by the u.n. that china signed on to enforce vigorously. >> china does sign on to a new u.n. sanction when there is a missile test, especially a nuclear test. we can expect they will reconvene the council and push for a tough new resolution. we should be skeptical of whether or not that economic pressure forces the north korean regime to behave in ways that we want. whether it has the effects we desire or whether it's just a way of looking tough for the international community and domestic audiences. what are the things we need to explore over the long run? if we can step back from denuclearization, stop manufacturing a crisis in the near term, whether china would help us deter north korea.

remember the primary interest is stability on the peninsula. if they start to understand that north korea is destabilizing to the region they may be willing to coordinate with us in deterring north korea from aggressing. general dunford's veft to beijing in the north of china this month -- or earlier in august was a good sign that this coordination could occur. that's something we need to explore. we can't get there if we are still going for broke on denuclearization. >> all right. adam joining us there. we appreciate it. thank you for the insight and analysis. it's absolutely been fascinating to get your thoughts on this evening. thank you. >> thank you. i want to bring in ian lee who joins me now from seoul, south korea. what's the latest from where you are. are we getting any more reaction to this possible sixth nuclear

test by north korea? what are you hearing? >> the national security council is meeting here in seoul. they will be discussing this earthquake. we heard the joint chiefs of staff are investigating whether it was, in fact, a nuclear test. all signs have been pointing to the fact that this does appear to be a nuclear test. they have increased the alert level for the military in south korea. they are also increasing the surveillance of the north to determine what exactly happened and see what's going on there. it's an interesting thing to point out that in 2016 when that nuclear test happened in north korea it was a 5.3 on the richter scale. now we are seeing this one today is a 6.3.

how the richter scale works every point up is ten times for powerful. that's not to say whatever caused this earthquake is ten times more powerful than the last one. it just says according to the richter scale this earthquake is ten times more powerful than the previous one in 2016. so that's something to give the experts insight into what exactly happened. but we are also monitoring north korean state television. they usually come out fairly quickly with some celebratory statement saying they have carried out a nuclear test. so we are watching closely to see when and if they do that. but right now things are tense at least for the government here because they are monitoring, trying to figure out, scrambling the national security council meeting now. we will be waiting to hear what they have to say once they are out of the meeting. >> ian, want you to put

something in context for me. if this was a nuclear test, again, we want to stress to the viewers who may just be joining us. there was this explosion according to the usgs it was 6.3 on the richter scale. it has not been confirmed that it was a nuclear test. but if, indeed, that's what took place in north korea the sixth one. i mean, to what degree does this change our assessment of the threat posed by north korea to those in the region and the u.s.? >> well, this just shows that from what the richter scale says from the magnitude of this earthquake that it appears to be a larger device if it was, in fact, a nuclear weapon. the interesting thing earlier today just in the last 24 hours north korea came out and said they have the capabilities of putting a hydrogen bomb on an

intercontinental ballistic missile. that's something experts thought north korea was months if not years away from achieving. but now according to state media who showed pictures of north korean leader kim jong-un at their nuclear facility inspecting this nuclear bomb and how it would be put on an icbm, that's very significant because previously we knew north korea could strike the region and could strike the united states with a missile. but they hadn't been able to put a nuclear device on the missiles. now they say they are capable of doing that. that comes as what appears to be a test of a nuclear weapon. that's a strong show of force from the north koreans. it comes as president trump had a phone conversation with the japanese prime minister abe talking about what they could do to put pressure on north korea. they talked about diplomatic isolation. they talked about economic

sanctions. as we have heard from will ripley's reporting in north korea, that doesn't seem to have an effect. in fact, it has a reverse effect where it galvanized them to achieve their goal of having an advanced nuclear program for what they say is a deterrent to what they perceive as western aggression which the united states and south korea says is laughable because they say the only thing they are doing is defensive measures. these drills we saw this last week, they say they are just defensive measures as a show of force. but they say all the drills that are conducted, all the military exercises conducted between the two countries, they are a defensive posture. that's not seen as that way in north korea. so you have a lack of understanding really with the united states just having the reverse effect. really now we're watching what china has to say about this latest development. really, they are the big player in the region that we haven't

heard from. china, that's where eyes are are going to be looking at, too, to see what their response is to this latest perceived nuclear test. >> stand by for us. i want to bring in rick francona who's joining us there from oregon. you heard in this moment as we wait for confirmation as to whether or not this was a nuclear test, all eyes will be on china. if the moment comes and it is indeed confirmed. what are your expectations of beijing? >> that's the issue right now. everyone has been rely on the chinese. hoping the chinese would be the solution to this problem. it doesn't appear they're going to be. we heard this in the past. we're going to rely on china to put more pressure on north korea. as we've heard, it just does not appear that any pressure we put

on north korea, any pressure that china puts on north korea is going to have the desired effect. this is north korea's primary objective is to develop this deterrent capability and they're going to do it regardless of what it costs them, because they believe that once they do that, then they will have leverage against any kind of sanctions or pressure from the outside. so you know, they're going to be playing a long game. i don't think china will do much for us. they macon dem the test, but i don't think this is going to be a game changer. >> i want to be clear when it comes to the situation on china. is it your belief that it's more a case of china doesn't want to do more? at the end of the day, you know, it is well documented that north korea uses chinese banks, gets

oil from china. it's an economic relationship that's so interwoven, if china really did put the pressure on north korea, they could effect change. is that wrong headed thinking? >> no, no. i just don't think the chinese will do it. it's not in their interest. they're looking at north korea. they think we don't like what's gong on there. but if we take action, the level of that action will cause such angst and such problems in north korea that we may see a refugee crisis, internal strife. that's something the chinese don't want to dale with. they don't like north korea and what it's doing right now, but they like a stable north korea. >> this administration has been accused of not speaking with one voice or being on the same page when it comes to north korea.

the likes of rex tillerson have erred on statements of we're not seeking regime change. diplomacy is not off the table. do you think discordance has kind of given a message to north korea that they could proceed with this possible test and with continued testing of missiles? >> they hear one thing from the president and then they hear something different from the secretary of state and the secretary of defense. those three will tell you they're all on the same page, but when you're reading what they're saying and you're a north korean analyst with not all the understanding of the nuances of american politics, you may think that there's division there. and that might embolden you.

now is the time for continue with the program and to achieve that goal before they get their act together. >> is now the time for more hash rhetoric from president trump of the fire and fury strain that we heard a couple of weeks ago, if this was indeed a sixth test. is this the moment where that kind of response is necessary. are you for one saying if there's a sixth test that needs to be dialled back and behind the scenes backdoor interaction or, i won't say negotiation because there isn't one. but at least attempts to reign in north korean need to be stepped up. >> i favor the backdoor approach. i don't think this public tit-for-tat really gets us anywhere. it just ratchets up the rhetoric and it destabilizes what stability is in the region.

but it also destabilizes our allies around the world. >> i want to go back to adam for a second. he's still with us from d.c. i want to ask him, adam is a senior fellow with certain for american progress. let me give you a full introduction once again, adam. to that point, is now the time for more fierce rhetoric from this administration, do you want to see more of that? would that have any positive effect if indeed this was a sixth nuclear test? >> there's no evidence that american rhetoric affects north korea's propensity to test whatsoever. throughout the spring donald trump and his administration have tried to ramp up the rhetoric. you heard these fire and fury threats and a variety of others. hr mcmaster, for example, said that north korea cannot be

deterred. the implication is that he would want to strike before north korea really consolidated this icbm capability. those statements are not helpful. they have not kept north korea from testing and i see no rejoon for doing so in the future. all they do is manufacture a dries sis, to try to ramp up the pressure and north korea just feeling it. >> adam, talk to us about the propaganda value, if you will, of such a test. within north korea itself, the value to kim jong-un. >> as you heard from the reporting, north korean citizens are enthralled by these nuclear tests and missile tests. each one is treated like a national triumph of. so every test does strengthen the leaders' hand with his

population. but also within the kabal of leaders, generals, military officers that surround him. they're important for him to maintain control. >> so following your line of thinking, kim jong-un needs these tests for his own internal survival and cohesion of this country. >> right. and that's one more reason we should be skeptical that any kind of rhetorical statement from the united states could cause him to give them up. why moving aircraft carriers into the region or b-1 bomber overflights could force north korea to fold and acquiesce to american pressure and volunteer to eliminate their nuclear arsenal. they're simply too important for the survival of the regime. they're too valuable internally.

and they're useful for sending a deterrence signal to the united states and its allies. these are not capabilities that north korea is going to want to give up easily. . >> the south korean government tends to be a little more rapid in responding so they convened a national security council meeting there and the military has said that they do think this one looks like a nuclear test. china will responds as it sees fit. it won't be rushed into thesortf things. we can expect them to go back to the u.n. security counckoucounc

they're react as they see their national interest. >> adam, we appreciate it. do stay with us. there's much more to discuss in the coming hours as we try and piece together what exactly took place in the northeastern part of north korea. stand by with us. we will be with you shortly. i'm isha sisay. the u.s. geological survey said there was a 6.3 magnitude explosion. now, let's be clear. it's still unclear yet if this was actually a nuclear test. but south korean officials say they believe the tremor was man made. north korean state media said earlier it had a hydrogen bomb that it could be put on an interconti