>> president trump on friday called for nfl owners to fire players for these demonstrations. >> confronting one of america's deepest wounds. >> this is not something i'm going to be quiet about. >> on bended knee. >> our national anthem. >> in millions of homes on any given sunday. scenes like these across the nfl and beyond now raising questions. should protesting racial injustice be part of the pro sports play book. >> i salute the nfl. >> or is it illegal procedure. >> get that son of a bitch off the field right now. >> is it disrespect for flag and for country or a tribute to the republic for which it stands? the wrong venue or the right place at the right timing. >> the nfl has to change. or you know what's going to happen? their business is going to go to hell. >> in a divided nation, this is an anderson cooper 360 town hall event, the vital conversation, patriotism, the players, and the president.

we're all part of the game. ♪ [ applause ] >> hello and welcome. in just a moment people all around me will be the ones in charge. they have questions to asking, opinions to voice, and they are not alone. this weekend tens of millions of americans tuned in and saw nfl players taking a knee during the national anthem or linking arms and doing it before the anthem or simply staying in the locker rooms as the the pittsburgh steelers and seattle seahawks did. this was not the first such demonstration which began as a way of calling attention to racial injustice. it was, however, the biggest most coordinated, the widest reaching public protest in a very long time in part because the president has made it so, and he stated after today, as you heard just a second ago in

our open, he said that if the nfl doesn't change, its business will go to hell. tonight a conversation, current and former football players, veterans, and citizens joins us. director spike lee, heinz ward, football player nate boyar and michael faulkner. we invited the white house to send a representative, they declined. we still hope to bring you all sides of the debate with plenty of input from our audience members. we want to start with one of the key voices in the conversation, and that's what malcolm jenkins, philadelphia eagles safety, he serves the community, his nonprofit provides scholarships, food, essential resources and sports programs in philadelphia and around the country. thank you for being with us. appreciate it. to you, this is not -- >> appreciate you having me. >> this is not a new protest. since last season you've been raising a fist during the national anthem, and i wondered

if you could explain why. >> well, one thing i think that has been missing over this entire year is us getting to the real issues. and i think it started when last summer you had the shooting of castile and alton sterling. as a black man in america with a platform, i no longer want to stand behind social media while we posted hashtag after hashtag of black people dying at the hands unnecessarily of law enforcement. so the first thing i wanted to do was get an understanding of how i could play a role in becoming a part of the solution, and the way i did that was sitting down with local police officers and finding out what their struggles were and issues were, their training, did they need resources, and through those conversations we began to work on some dialogue and how we could better that relationship. soon thereafter you had the protest of colin kaepernick. and i think what that did is it showed athletes who were already

do ing this work behind the scenes that we could bring this stuff to the forefront and really change the dialogue nationally about these issues and draw attention to what's happening in our communities. >> and malcolm, to those who say taking a knee during the national anthem and not coming out during the national anthem is disrespectful, unpatriotic, disrespectful to the flag, what do you say? >> i understand where that come from and why they would feel that way. but i think you have to check the track record of a lot of the players that are demonstrating and the nfl in general. i think we do a great job of honoring our military and our flag through your events. we have first responders, military and police at almost every game that we honor and hold up high. but this is not about them or the flag at all. this is us as concerned citizens trying to play our role in a bigger conversation about race in america, a bigger conversation about our criminal justice system and our law enforcement.

this is not an indictment against law enforcement or police. we're not anti-police. many of us have worked hand in hand with law enforcement to figure out ways to really move us forward in a better direction, to re-instill trust in our law enforcement and to really hold that accountability and transparency that our communities are looking for. >> when you heard the president in alabama on friday say that those taking the field -- player taking the field are sons of bitches, i'm wondering that what meant you to and those protesting should be fired? >> i think it just -- for me personally, it didn't bother me much because i know who i am and i know the work i've done. it just shows our president does not know much about the guys who are behind those helmets and behind those face masks. you've got players like antoine bolden, chris long, michael

bennett, devin mccordy, the list goes on and on. these are guys who are not only proclaiming and being activists verbally, but they're behind the scenes in their communities and doing great work and speaking and trying to do their best to make this america great. and so for him to make those comments just shows there's a lack of understanding of who we are as players, what we do. hopefully we can continue to showcase that and really use our platform for the betterment of our country and our communities. >> do you worry about the debate the way it's been the last couple days and all the attention on are players taking a knee, are they linking arms, that the original intent, that the original concern about social justice, racial inequality, that that is being lost in this? >> i think so.

there's definitely a need to refocus this conversation on what it was originally. and that is, we need accountability for our law enforcement and transparency, to build trust in our communities to trust our law enforcement once again, and our law enforcement can do their job safely and effectively. we don't like to talk about some of these issues. the fact that black people are five times more likely to be shot and killed by an officer than white people. that's something that's tough for us to swallow. you know, it's not only the people being killed, because that's a small percentage of police interactions with the community. but there's also the treatment of black people at the hands of officers that needs to be addressed and these implicit biases we all have that play a big role in how people are treated. and the criminal justice system that we have, that's broken, and oftentimes affects communities

of color more than everybody else, and it's detrimental not only to the individual but to their homes and communities. we talk about the system and the fact that you have 450,000 people people every night in jail, not because they've been convicted of any crime but because they can't afford bail to get out. it's costing us $38 million a day to keep people in jail when we could be using that money to better our schools, to rehabilitate people, to give people an opportunity. our reentry programs, when people do get caught up in this system -- when they're trying to come back out in society, they're hit with road blocks. you talk about people with records are the only people that it is legal to discriminate against. and one in three people in america have a criminal record or arrest record. you're talking about lack of resources when it comes to housing, education, loans, voting, all of these things that you lose, but yet we tell these

people -- we send them back into the communities and tell them to be productive and tell them to do these things, but they've lost all kinds of opportunities. it's time for us to focus on de those issues and steer away from debating on what's right and wrong. >> does this continue like it was this past weekend? >> i think players will continue to do it because, you know, one thing i hear a lot is from fans is find a better way to do it. i've asked for an entire year, please show me a better platform and a better way that won't allow us to ignore these issues longer. because we've done this silently before, and it has gone uncovered. but this platform has given us an opportunity to keep these conversations at the forefront. and i've met with many

politicians -- and criminal justice reform is a bipartisan -- has bipartisan support. it's not about which side you're on. everyone knows we need to do this but it's not high enough on the agenda. and so as an athlete with a platform, i feel like this is an opportunity to continue to push that and draw awareness to it. so i see it continuing until we see some real significant -- >> problem with the satellite on that last sentence. i appreciate your time and we look forward to talking to you in the future. thanks so much, malcolm. i want to introduce everybody on the panel. we have spike lee here, heinz ward, nate boyar and the reverend michael faulkner. reverend, you hear what malcolm said. you think it is disrespectful to the flag, is that correct? >> at that moment when the flag is raised, it should be saluted. that's my -- listen, i'm a baptist minister. when somebody's praying at the

pulpit, you can't walk in. there's certain rules in the house. in our church, men take off their hats. it's that kind of thing. is there a cause for protest? absolutely. i get it. i agree with so much of what malcolm is saying. >> but that's not the time or the place? >> that's not the time or the place, to me. my statement is when those colors are raised, i'm going to salute. that does not mean that i believe america is perfect, but i believe the ideal of america is worth continuing to work for. >> spike? >> that means you're unpatriotic? i'm asking you a question. does that mean that these brothers -- >> no. >> when they take a knee are you saying they're unpatriotic? >> no i didn't say that. >> a lot of fans of the game say i don't want to turn on the game and this is not the right time. >> politics and sports have always been intertwined, and you

can't -- we live in the united states of america. race is a part of the dna of this country. this country, the foundation of the united states was the genocide of native americans and slavery. that's the foundation of this country that cannot be disputed. that's the foundation. everything else comes from that. >> politics and sports, it's very hard to juggle that because in our world, the football world, we don't see color. we see teammates come from all different places all over. >> can i just say something? >> go ahead. >> what did it take bryant to get a black player at alabama? they played usc and he said we need to get some -- how can you say football is not -- >> it's the politics is -- you

got to look at it. in our world, that's where the league is trying to do, where's the balance. >> can i say this, heinz? all respect, my brother. the players are different from management and the owners. and they are the people that are running things. >> yes, but there's two sides, though. there's two sides. there's one side that's trying to say social injustice and trying to make equality for this, and then there's a side that they look at the flag and whatever that flag represents to you, so be it, but then there's a lot of people that really just want to play football. they don't want to have to pick sides. they just wants to play football, the game they loved doing as a child, the game they make a lot of money to provide for their families from where they come from. a lot of those players are frustrated because they feel like they have to choose. >> nate, i want to ask you. you're a former green beret, served from 2005 to 2015 am i right? >> yes. >> you wrote a public

letter to colin kaepernick and he responded. you communicated with him, correct? >> right. yeah. >> he originally was sitting during the national anthem. that upset you. i'm wondering what you said to him. a lot of people point to you as the person who suggested he take a knee rather than sit. >> it wasn't necessarily the gesture itself. it was just, that was the first person, i guess, publically protesting the anthem that i recognized, they noticed. i'm a niner fan and it hurt because of my personal relationship with the flag. that flag comes home and it's draped over coffins of our fallen brothers and sisters and it's folded and handed to a spouse or child of somebody. so for me it just means something a little bit different. i was hurt, initially i was angry. but i was looking at our country right now, and where we're at and just the shouting and everyone so concerned with just being right and not listening to the other side, even when the

other side seems crazy. when we're in afghanistan and iraq, i don't agree with most of the customs and cultures, but i have to put that aside and swallow my pride and say you know what, i don't know what it's like to grow up where you grew up. i just know my experience. i try to take that into account because i don't know anything -- i don't know what it's like to be anybody but nate boyar and i never will. no matter what color or anything. and so for me, i just wanted to come with an open mind and listen for once because i have a bad habit of judging, i think everybody does. i wanted to stop that in migration. that's where that letter came from. he reached out and we were able to sit down before the preseason game last year. it was cool to listen to him be open minded. he said look, i don't want to hurt you, i don't want to hurt your brothers and sisters. i showed him text messages of friends of mine, some of them were saying i was a disgrace to the green beret because i was even meeting with him, and some

were i'm with you, man, but that really hurts me to see that. so i talked to him, and i said, i think, a knee, we both said, it was mutual, me, him, and eric reed, taking a knee would be a little bit more respectful. it's still a demonstration, you're still saying something, but people take a knee to pray. for me it was a common ground at least to start from. >> just to be clear, it's not something you advocate or support, but you felt taking a knee was better than sitting on a bench. >> i want collin kaepernick and every american to stand because they want to stand, but i want them all to stand. i'm more interested if someone's taking a knee because they really care about something than the guy in the stands or the girl in the stands or whoever that feels obligated to stand. song's playing, when is it over, i want to hear play ball and keep going on going. >> spike brought the point that there's a long tradition of

protests in sports. muhammad ali who now if you poll this room, everyone will say he's a great man. he wasville fied -- >> hated. >> hated for refusing to serve in the vietnam war. >> as americans -- he was called un-american. >> he was. but see, as americans, it's part of our responsibility. talk about the dna of america, the dna of america is protest. the boston tea party is what got this whole thing kicked off. it was a protest movement. but protesting and that flag, we have come so far, and that flag to me represents something sacred. it's not perfect. i know about slavery, i know about the history of racism, i experienced racism in this country, in this day today, in this day and age, however, as an american, as a christian, i continue to fight to make it better. that's my job. that's my responsibility.

that's what malcolm was talking about. >> you don't think that the players are protesting -- you don't think they're trying to do their part to make this country better? >> absolutely, they really will. my part of this conversation is this. i'm saying, okay, now that you've got everybody's attention and you're literal ly holding the mic, what do we do now? how do we move this conversation forward because literally, as a nation, we are all listening. and we've got to say what next? malcolm was talking about some great things. listen, i'm running for office. i'm running for new york city controller. i'm not a politician. i'm a social entrepreneur. i believe in america. i believe in this country. i believe in serving. i left the vice president -- >> the protesters have the same beliefs you have. >> but spike, we have to put an end someplace. listen, you're an artist, you

make movies. you tell stories that motivate people, that inspire people that make people laugh or make people cry. >> i think this is less about, in my opinion, at least for me, wanting the players to change and do something different. i think it's more about wanting our country to change. >> exactly. >> whether it's social media or whatever, it is just -- it's some hateful stuff and it's awful and it makes me sick. when you go fight for your country and for other people that will never have this and you're trying to give them a glimpse of hope, and then you come back and it's just -- >> i got a message from a navy seal, serving overseas who reached out and said what is going on? what is going on? >> he's busy. >> but you're serving with your brothers in arms and there's this unity and you look back at the country you're representing. we're going to continue the conversation and take questions from the audience when our "360" town hall continues.

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written to the nfl by tay ya kyle. she's the widow of chris kyle. she writes, your desire to focus on division and arrange shatters what many believe about the sport. you're asking us to abandon what we loved about togetherness. and make choices of division, will we stand with you, will we stand with our flag. i want you to meet the parents of staff sergeant bonkassa he was on his fourth tour when he was killed by a suicide bomber in afghanistan along with five of his brothers in arms. he's left survived by his daughter and wife. you have a question for spike? >> yes. last sunday our community had a celebration for gold star parents. it was a humbling ceremony. but it brought us back to the day we lost our son. it was a very empty feeling. we came home, turned on the tv, and there was the nfl players on their knees. that was a slap in the face to

us. so my question is, how do you support these multimillionaires on their knees and don't support what the fallen heroes died for? >> sir, i'm very sorry for your loss. but the narrative that you spoke about is not true. all these players have said, many, many times, that they respect the armed forces. they respect the flag, and they respect america. and this narrative that when they take a knee is insulting your son who is no longer here is not true. they've said that again and again and again. >> but there's a lot of people who look at this as disrespectful. >> a lot of people thought that that in the '68 olympics, john carlos and tom smith when they won the olympics, they put the black up.

a lot of people felt that was -- >> i have one other question. >> yes. >> when north korea aims a missile at us, are these football players going to be on their knees or are they going to support our veterans? >> say that again? >> when north korea aims a nuclear missile at us, are these heroes that you say, nfl, that can't support our flag, are they going to on be on their knees when this happens or are they going to support our veterans? >> sir, i'm worried just as much as donald trump as that crazy guy in north korea. he has a nuclear code. i'm worried about that. [ applause ] >> we're worried about it too. >> we're worrying together then. >> if you could just speak to that. when you see the flag and you see what these players are doing, is it to you disrespectful to the flag? >> it hurts me every time, i will say that. it hurts me. because i know these guys

personally, i know that is not their intent to disrespect. i don't see it that way, but that's because i've had those conversations, i think. so as an outsider, i can understand how you would view it that way. on the veteran side, we have 22 veterans taking their own lives a day right now. we have a lot of issues on that. so that's something that i think needs to be spoken about more and maybe demonstrated in some way, but we could never do something like that during the anthem, right? i've actually spoken to, you know, to players about potential -- i mean, mentioning that stuff, too. i mean, racism in america absolutely exists. it is an issue. we need to fix it. we're a great country, probably the greatest country, but we can be a hell of a lot greater. if a lot of those guys would recognize that it's not the only issue, i think more people from

that other side, that polarized opposite may listen and open up a little bit. >> brendan gill more is here. he tweeted a photo of his grandfather that went viral. a world war ii veteran is taking a knee to support those in the nfl to do the same. he also participated in the counter protest in charlottesvill charlottesville. he was a witness to the violence and served as a foreign service officer in africa for 15 years. and you have a question for michael. thanks for being here. >> my grandfather and i both and served in the military and we love our country, the flag, and the anthem, but patriotism is about the inspirations in our constitution which is always a work in progress. my grandfather's action i see as saying don't use my service to divide us and to distract from the core issue of addressing systemic racial injustice. i want to go back to the question that the reverend raised about what are the concrete steps we all need to be taking in the unified way both as individuals and as a country to make progress on racial justice? >> reverend? >> malcolm talked about a lot of

things he was doing engaging law enforcement directly. i think it's amazing. when i played with the jets we had this program called goals for youth. i went in upstate new york, rural upstate new york and work ed with migrate workers' children. these kids were dirt poor, i mean dirt floor poor, i had never seen poverty. it was like appalachian poor. i had never seen poverty like this. and i spent time with each kid, ten kids a week, and drove around from school to school. the graduation rate was less than 10%, went up to 90%. that's just one thing. i left liberty university as a vice president to come to new york to run a soup kitchen in times square -- in the old times square. these guys, these athletes are champions, many of them are champions, they're not just physical, it's a whole emotional thing. i think what we need to do is we need to be engaging them in

positive things we can do going forward. i'm not just talking about feel-good stuff. i'm talking about stuff to get engaged. and have these folks -- have the wealthy folks help fund these things that we're doing. i don't believe government can do this. >> i want to introduce everybody. joey on doms who was a kochl bat veteran and up until yesterday, the singer for the baltimore ravens. he announced yesterday after three years of sing "the star spangled banner" he is resigning. why did you decide to do that? >> i felt like not all of me was welcomed. the combat veteran was welcome, the 911 operator was welcomed, the person who sang the national anthem was welcome, but the veteran who also saw that there was a reason for these players to be kneeling was not welcome.

so i made this decision, you know, that that was not the place for me to be. >> i think the league is in a unique position because we don't know how to deal with it, with the remarks of trump coming out on friday night. we talk about unity in the nfl. and so it seems like every nfl attach was trying to figure out how to do it the right way, and they totally just bombed it. and the leader of our league, roger goodell, he was nowhere to be found. so through sunday, teams were trying to figure out, what do we do. you saw the steelers, you see how we did it, we dropped the ball. tennessee and seattle, they didn't want to be a part of it either way. they stayed in the locker room. other teams stayed out. and then finally on monday night, and it kills me to say this, hurts me to say this, the

dallas cowboys came close to getting it right. jerry jones, the owner, kneeled down with his players to show support for the players that was going through the protests, but at the same time those same players stood for the national anthem. >> spike, i'm wondering what you thought of that. >> here's the thing. [ laughter ] >> maybe you need to be the commissioner. >> no, no. i got enough patriot already. here's the thing. i was not buying that stuff. that show with the owners kneeling with the players with their arms locked up. i wasn't buying it because they're forgetting why this whole thing has happened. if they want to stop -- if they want to unite with the players, colin kaepernick should have a job in the nfl. [ applause ] so it's hypocritical for them to say we're all united, but we're forgetting the reason why this whole thing started.

>> do you think it's a black ball situation? >> yes. >> because of his -- >> because people do not like what he does, what he did. >> now whole league is doing it. >> i think it's a business decision. i believe that if you owned a business and you had the most qualified employee coming in, which he is, he's very qualified. >> real quick, not to mess up your flow. >> you already did it. >> there's 32 teams in the league. are there any teams where he could be the starting quarterback right now? >> yes. >> how many? >> my point is if you could hire that person but at the same time you had that fear or worry you may lose a large amount of your clientele, your client base -- >> i can answer for you. brance ricky, he hired jackie robinson. nobody else wanted him. that was the decision. >> jackie robinson is a hall of fame baseball player, what are you talking about?

>> he wasn't hall of fame before brance rickey hired him. >> he was the first black person in major league baseball. >> you can't place him with colin kaepernick. >> i'm giving you an example of where someone made the decision. no, no, no. he made the decision. no matter what anybody else said, i'm hiring jackie robinson. that was a business decision. that was a business decision. >> and guess what, they made lots of money from it. it was risky at first, but where do we go from here? where do we go from here? >> which owner is going to be the ricky and give colin kaepernick a job? >> i want to introduce -- >> colin kaepernick's got a job. >> where? >> he's the leader of a movement. he made a decision to put his career on the line. i salute colin kaepernick. >> why can't he do that and play, though? >> put him in the movies. make a movie with him. let's do that. >> no.

[ laughter ] >> i want to introduce -- i want everyone to meet bran dden romb who did combat tours in iraq and afghanistan. he survived a ied attack in afghanistan and lost both his legs. thank you for your service and thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> i think you have a question for nate. >> yeah. ewety, we've used that word a lot tonight. i think that's something i learned in both my tours overseas. but what i want to say is i would honorably stand next to all my fellow americans during the anthem. but after the fact, i would stand next to anybody that wants to peacefully protest for the racial injustice anyone is experiencing. my question is simple. protesting the national anthem

is adding fuel to a fire that was created by a few hateful people who think they are superior because of their white skin color or job title. how can we as a country use another platform to achieve our goals but not disrespect something so many people, including myself, hold so dear? >> it's tough. good question. >> action, man, 100%. that's where we're at now. everybody is very aware. we're sitting in this room. we're talking about this. i'm not saying protesting to stop now, but i'm saying we're very aware. and there is a lot going on. there's a lot of players doing stuff, but it's not growing yet, and i think it needs to immediately. i think -- speaking of collin, i love the guy. i sat down with him -- where's he at? he should be in this room with us. >> he's on the low. >> he's on the low. >> but i think part of that is, is he going to be willing to lay down

his arms a little bit and say, you know, police chiefs and whoever, and people in high places, higher places, would he be able to sit in a room with donald trump and have a conversation? that would change a lot in this country, if that happened somehow. i don't see it happening, but i would love more than anything to say to his that. >> the man called his mother son of a bitch. >> i understand that. >> but now it's -- now it's personal. it's not even about the protest. everyone hates donald trump. >> do you think it's becoming about the president, not the original issue? >> exactly. >> i want everyone to meet the wife of nfl player ryan moats. after an incident with law enforcement back in 2008, she and her husband worked with police to bring about positive thing in the community. you have a question for heinz? >> yes, i do. so basically our situation with the police happened eight years ago. my husband and i -- at that time

he was playing. we decided to take a different approach. instead of going public, we decided to go behind the veil and work with the local police groups. we even reached out multiple times to the officer who was involved in our case. however, the door has constantly be slammed in our face. at this point, we're eight years later, it's gotten a lot worse. and i think this protest is much needed, because unlike collin kaepernick we tried to take the higher road and it's gotten worse, nothing has happened. it's gotten a lot worse, so my question to you guys and respectfully, reverend, you said work with the groups directly, that's not working. it's getting worse in america. everyone's so divided. we have to come up with a solution, and i do believe government has to be involved. so i would like to know what is a proper next step, and one that's going to come up with a resolution and not just continue to divide the country even further? >> to heinz, that was, actually. >> i mean, i look at it as, the nfl has a unique platform. we own a network.

i would love to see guys on tuesday, on their off day, let's sit down and do a two-hour special and talk about dialogue and all the things that have happened. bring the police chief on board to sit there and talk and put it out there so all you guys can view it. if a situation's happened to you that you can relate to, then we're talking about it. i think dialogue solves everything. >> don't people -- when people speak out who are on -- i don't want sports channels. but from what i read -- >> no espn? >> there's four espns. i turn by them quickly. it seems like sometimes when people speak out about politics in the sports world, they get criticized as you're a sports person you're not supposed to be talking about it. >> you and your husband can speak about the situation that happened. if that were to arise with someone else, at least they know somebody who's been through their situation. understanding and not knowing, i think that's kind of where we're behind.

putting it out in the forefront and discussing the issue of what happened with you and your husband with this police officer, i think, helps. >> you remember when -- the vietnam vets came back, people were booing them, people were spitting on them. i'm old enough to remember that time. and then it was like after 2001 or something, i guess we went to afghanistan. i'm in airports and i'm seeing armed troops coming to the airport, people stop, they part, and they clap. they're clapping, cheering. everybody's thanking them for their service. and that's unified. i mean, wherever you were, people saw somebody in uniform, they would stop and cheer and say thank you for your service. i saw this go on and i said wow. this was spontaneous american stuff.

couldn't we, as americans, have a viral conversation, a viral dialogue about what it means to be on the same -- you know, this racial inequality that we face. these racial tension that is we face. >> let's take a quick break as we think about that. we'll take more questions from the audience. michael bennett from the seattle seahawks will join us next. [ applause ] people would stare. psoriasis does that. it was tough getting out there on stage. i wanted to be clear. i wanted it to last. so i kept on fighting. i found something that worked. and keeps on working. now? they see me.

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welcome back. we've already heard remarkable voices in the town hall tonight. patriotism, players and the president. we're about to hear more. before we do, i want to mention tory smith of the philadelphia eagles who paid a price for speaking out, he was a member of the 49ers when colin kaepernick took a knee. he's tweeted out what he sees as the divisiveness of the president and he's said patriotism goes beyond a flag and an anthem. someone tweeted this to smith a video of him burning his jersey. joining us is michael bennett and doug baldwin of the seattle seahawks. when you see things like the jersey being burned by a fan or loud boos when the cowboys decided to kneel before the game, i'm wondering what goes through your mind because there are many fans who feel what you and others are doing is

disrespectful? >> i think i see it as the truth for what people don't really want to face the realities of what's going on in america, the realities of what we're talking about. we're talking about police brutality, colin kaepernick, flint, michigan, all of these issues people don't want to hear in sports. and it just goes to show you that people don't want to be vulnerable nor do they want to be uncomfortable. they want to get away from it when they watch sports. but the reality is we're black men when we leave the facilities. no matter what, that will never change. people have to listen to what we're talking about, and this is the truth. >> doug, when you see that reaction from the president that the business is going to hell, what do you want the president and others to understand about what you're doing? >> yeah, i mean, it's very clear to me that the players that were exercising our first amendment right. i got the opportunity to hear mr. and mrs. bona kos ta speak.

and i want to say directly to you that nobody appreciates and respects your son's sacrifice more than us. your son's sacrifice and the sacrifice of many of those of our country allow us to exercise our first amendment right and that's vitally important here. i think that's what we've trying to get across, there's a message that we want to share with the world, and we think there's no better opportunity than platform that we have because that's the biggest platform that we have. and so i want that to be clear. it's not a disrespect. we're honoring those who have sacrificed their lives in order for us to use our first amendment right. >> michael, i know you had a run-in with police in las vegas last month, did something about that incident impact your views on speaking out or demonstrating? >> no. it didn't impact my views. what impacted by views was the mass incarceration of african-americans. 70% of the people in jail are african-american. police brutality, that's what influences me. colin kaepernick influenced me to keep pushing forward.

and those are the issues that we're talking about. we're not talking about the flag or the military. even after world war ii, african-american men came back to feel subhuman when they came back to society. they didn't have rights. they had to face jim crow and they still couldn't vote with vietnam. so it's not about the flag. it's still about the rights people want, the equality we see that's fit for every single human. i don't feel like i should have a different conversation with my kids than a white american should have with their kids. i should be able to feel safe if my son or daughter goes out in the streets and feel like they're going to come home. when i get pulled over by the police, i shouldn't feel like i'm going to die. i should feel like i'm interacting with law enforcement and they respect me as a human being. >> a lot of people tonight have been asking the question of where does this go? how does this go from a protest on the field to actual change? i don't expect you to have an

answer or anybody to have a particular answer, but i'm wondering what your thoughts are on that and where the protests go? does it continue, do you think? >> well, first and foremost, i want to go back to something the reverend said earlier. he said that the boston tea party got this kicked off. i'm sorry, sir, you're incorrect. it was the boston massacre that happened three years prior to that when nine armed british police officers gunned down unarmed americans. that's where this got kicked off. it's ironic we're talking about this topic tonight. you asked me, heinz ward, you want to see players doing something on tuesday. i would invite to you seattle and see what we do every tuesday on our off day since last year when this conversation was talked about. you asked me, anderson cooper, what can be done, what's the next steps? we've been saying what the next steps are for a long time. for me and for my teammates, i don't speak for all of us, but for our message we've been trying to get across, number one, we want more resources for

our law enforcement so that they can experience better deescalation tactics, better policies, better i was a young man 12 years old playing around in my neighborhood, playing cops and robbers, and i had toy guns and i can only imagine what it would be like if i had a friend that got shot and killed in those situations. number two, i know that the rebuttal is going to be about you should handle yourself accordingly with law enforcement. let's put the dare program back in schools. let's start funding more education programs, let's start putting more resources in our public education system in general. you want to know next steps. that's what we're asking for and we've been saying that since day one. [ applause ] >> go ahead, michael. >> yeah. i'm sorry. michael lindquist was saying something to -- >> yeah. i wanted to say -- sorry.

go ahead, michael. >> sorry. and, you know, i would like to challenge every american that's watching this show to treat people better. that's really what it's about. it's about treating people like human beings. that's the first step. the first step is to recognize and see somebody as an equal being when you recognize them. it's no way that a person, a woman should feel less human than a man. there's no way that a black person should feel less human than a white man. everybody should be seen equal. until that happens it's the truth and reality of what we want and less about the flag, then there's never going to be a change. and the change starts with our heart. this is a peaceful protest. we're challenging people spiritually, not physically, spiritually to change the way -- change the -- [applause] >> guys, thank you so much for being with us. i appreciate it. back now with the panel and also we're going to have more questions from the audience. i just wanted -- >> when you talk about change, i think change is taught in the homes. it starts with the parents, you know. my mom always taught me to treat

people, treat others like you want to be treated. you know, if you do that in life then good things are going to happen. sometimes i think for a lot of of these, though grow up in different situations, different environments or whatever. i understand. i got pulled over a couple times. i had a nice car or whatever. but also, i got pulled over my black cops. i had a friend who got shot by a black cop. you know, so to me in our community, i think we have to do more. it's great what they do on tuesday. i think as a league if we're trying to help everyone in this process, i think, yes, it's not just the fatal seahawks. i think everyone needs to have a platform. >> 32 teams, right. >> all 32 teams get on tuesdays and talk about social equality. >> you talked about police. i want to bring in edwin raymond. he's a sergeant in the new york police department. he supports colin kaepernick and others like him in the nfl. he says he's seen issues between law enforcement and minority communities from the inside. i think he has a question. welcome. thank you for your service. >> thank you.

all right. based on the dialogue this evening and it seems as if most people understand that racial inequalities in the u.s. is not an antiquated issue, but there is a significant portion of this population that they seem to think that this is something that was solved during the civil rights movement. so what can we do to get those people to understand that it's still a lot more work to do? because if we're not having this conversation from that platform, it's almost pointless. how do we get this fact to be universally accepted? >> spike? that's a tough question. >> that's a tough one. i think i go with my brothers from the seattle super sonics. >> excuse me. the seahawks. i'm still mad about pete carroll. for calling that pass. we have to understand each

other's humanity. i think that's what they were talking about. we have this superiority thing has got us jacked up. and i also think that what donald trump has done, you want to say his name, he's given a lot of these crazy people the green light who were under the surface and now coming out full-blown with their hate. >> nate, one of the things you said about serving overseas, you know, you were serving in other cultures. you're there to help the people of afghanistan, the afghan government. you may not understand or even like a lot of the stuff you see, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. i think that's such an important thing even here at home to walk in someone else's shoes. >> absolutely. that's something we just really struggle with too as a country. we don't even want to listen. we don't even want to empathize with the other side. and it's always about sides. that's the biggest issue.

you've got to be on this team or that team or nobody likes you, you know what i mean? you sit in the radical middle and you're a freaking outlier which doesn't make any sense. >> she's the wife of new york giants wide receiver brandon marshal is here. her grandfather served in world war ii, korea and vietnam. she has a question. welcome. >> thank you for having me. my question is nfl athletes as well as other professional athletes are not necessarily seen as individuals. they are representations of teams and organizations, but so many of them, some that you heard today and a lot that you haven't, the majority do outstanding things in the community for positive change. so now players are using their platform that's visible when in the past you don't see what they do. why is it -- it's similar to what breast cancer awareness for the nfl. we use the nfl platform in order to highlight something that is very important.

why is it a problem when nfl athletes or other athletes alike use their platform about something that really is an important issue to them and their communities? why is this a problem? >> reverend. >> yeah. i think it's not a problem. in fact, i encourage it. i just don't want them to use the flag. i mean, because in my opinion, in my humble opinion, the flag is somewhat sacred because it's only because of that flag that i will have the right to protest, the right to be equal and the right to hold people accountable and say you can't treat people this way. i don't care what their race, i don't care what their color, i don't care what their sexual orientation. in this country you are equal by the law. so treating -- so having this -- this issue raised this way, but

to me, i'm just saying the flag is what -- and the constitution and our ideals, we're not perfect. we're americans. we're having this conversation now. and i think that's vitally important and i agree that some of the athletes are doing great stuff. >> we're tight on time. before we go, i want to talk to rory fanning. he's a former army ranger and served in the same unit as pat tillman. tillman left the nfl to serve in the army and was killed in afghanistan. president trump tweeted this -- tillman's widow said, pat's service, along with everyone's service shouldn't be politicized in a way to divide us. you knew pat tillman.

i wonder what he'd make of this. >> after two tours in afghanistan i became one of the first army rangers to become a war resister. i realized that we were never going to win the war in afghanistan and that we're making the world a far more dangerous place. in doing so, the entire battalion turned their back on me and for six months i had to wash dishes, absorb the ridicule of the chain of command. there are two people that stood by me that entire six months. it was pat tillman and his brother kevin. they respected people who stood up for what they believed in. i think they would have a lot more in common with bennett and colin kaepernick than people who stand on the sidelines and jeer. i would be shocked if pat tillman wasn't out there taking a knee with these players because pat cared about people who were exploited, people who were oppressed. he didn't care so much about symbols. so i would definitely think pat would err on the side of colin kaepernick. >> i never met pat and he

inspired me quite a bit. that's one of the reasons i followed a dream to go play football when i was older after i served. but i did serve with some people that knew him. and i would think, personally, or potentially that more someone like chris long. like what chris long has been doing. he stands for the anthem, stands for the flag, but he's one of those guys, you know, he's embracing the guys that are taking a knee and just saying hey, look, i'll always stand because of what it means to me and family and service and all that stuff, but, you know, i'm listening. i'm listening. i'm here. and we're brothers too, you know what i mean? we might have different skin color, different backgrounds, wearing the same uniform. this is something i want to see fixed too. >> that's what the league is trying to do. they're trying to figure out what's the best way to go about doing it because there is no right and wrong way. we don't want to offend both parties.

in some ways it's got to be a common ground so we both can be respectful of each other but still the dialogue to get change and get things moving in the right direction. >> i want to thank everybody for taking part of this discussion. i want to thank you for watching this town hall. we'll go now to don lemon and cnn tonight. [ applause ] thanks, anderson. a really important conversation you've been having tonight on this network around the nation and it continues right now. the president of the united states started this fire with race as the tinder and sports as the spark. and now he's pouring gasoline on it. this is cnn tonight. repeal and replace dead again. devastation in puerto rico. crisis with north korea. and president trump is using his bully pulpit to pick a fight with the nfl. doubling down today and insisting that the league's business is going to hell in the wake of players' protesting during the national anthem. and don't forget, he started this whole thing last week when