and there's so much -- so many good things that are happening. like in my life, i've just been appointed to the adl's -- to the antidefamation league's mentoring program, where we're going to work with some of these athletes through the adl and hopefully coach them and show them the most effective ways of, you know, making a protest and making the statements that they want to make in the right way. >> i encourage people to read your op-ed and the upcoming book will be in my house. that's for sure. big man, always a pleasure. >> nice talking to you, chris. there's a lot of news going on on this monday morning. what do you say? let's get after it. >> when she made that statement, i thought it was sickening, actually. >> this is going to be trump's benghazi. >> i don't want to see the death of americans turned into some sensationalized partisan fight. >> we don't know exactly where we're at in the world militarily and what we're doing.

>> senator graham didn't know we had 1,000 troops in niger. did you? >> no, i did not. >> at this point, we have conflicting stories. we want to be able to get the full, accurate story and get it right. >> we're going to score a big legislative accomplishment here on tax reform. >> people closest to the president whispering in his ear all want to do big tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the country. >> we want the very best tax package that can actually pass. this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to your "new day." it is monday, october 23rd, 8:00 in the east. lawmakers are demanding answers about the deadly military mission that claimed the lives of four u.s. soldiers in niger. senate armed services committee will hold its first hearing this week about this. this comes as leading senators admit they are stunned to learn how many u.s. troops are in the west african nation. >> the senate also plans to take on the long-awaited debate of the president's war authorization powers. this has been going on for

years. congress has been punting on its constitutional duty. so, for the first time, there's going to be some new context this morning. the widow of sergeant la david johnson, one of the soldiers killed in that niger attack, is speaking out. myesha johnson is her name. and in a new interview on abc just this morning, she talks about what president trump said that did make her cry. let's hear mrs. johnson in her own words. >> the questions that i have, that i need answered is, i want to know why it took them 48 hours to find my husband, why couldn't i see my husband. every time i asked to see my husband, they wouldn't let me. >> what did they tell you? >> they're telling me that he's in a severe wrap, like, i won't be able to see him. i need to see him, so i will know that that is my husband. i don't know nothing.

they won't show me a finger, a hand. i know my husband's body from head to toe. and they won't let me see anything. i don't know what's in that box. it could be anything for all i know. but i need to see my husband. i haven't seen him since he came home. >> there are also a lot of questions about the phone call you received from president trump. i know you were in a car to the airport. tell us what happened next. >> me and my family was in the limo to receive my husband from, i think it was denver -- dover, we went to. >> dover. and we were nearly on the airport strip getting ready to get out, and he called master sergeant neil's phone. i asked master sergeant neil to put his phone on speaker, so my aunt and uncle could here as well. and he goes on to saying his

statement as, what he said was -- >> the president? >> yes, the president. he said that he knew what he signed up for, but it hurts anyways. and i was -- it made me cry, because i was very angry at the tone of his voice and how he said it. he couldn't remember my husband's name. the only way he remembered my husband's name, because he told me, he had my husband's report in front of him. and that's when he actually said, la david. i heard minimum stumbling on trying to remember my husband's name. and that were hurting me the most. because if my husband is out here fighting for our country and he risked his life for our country, why can't you remember his name? and that is what made me upset and cried even more, because my aweso husband was an awesome soldier. he did what took other soldiers

to do three years in other five years. it took other soldiers five to six years to make e5. if he was here, he would have been on his way to being an e6 or an e7. my husband had high hopes in a military career. >> what did you say to the president? >> i didn't -- i didn't say anything. i just listened. >> but you were upset when you got off the phone? >> oh, very. very upset and hurt. very. it made me cry even worse. >> congresswoman wilson reported that and you explained she was in the car with you. >> yes. >> she's been close to your family for a long time. >> yes. yes. miss wilson -- my uncle-in-law was miss wilson's elementary school principal. and my husband was in her 5,000-room model program. that's why she's well-connected

with us. because she's been in our family since we were -- since we were little kids. >> the president said that the congresswoman was lying about the phone call. >> whatever miss wilson said was not fabricated. what she said was 100% correct. it was master sergeant neil, me, my aunt, my uncle and the driver and miss wilson in the car. the phone was on speakerphone. why would we fabricate something like that? >> is there anything you would like to say to the president now? >> no. i don't -- no, i don't have nothing to say to him. >> all right. that's myeshia johnson, the widow of la david johnson, one of the four service members lost in this ambush attack in niger. let's bring in our panel, senior political writer for 538, perry

bacon. and associate editor at real clear politics, a.b. stoddard. perry, this is not an easy situation for the widow to be in. she just suffered the worst loss in her life, she's got a baby on the way, she's got other kids to take care of. what was the takeaway for you, from this interview? >> i mean, first of all, my heart goes out to her. it was really hard to watch that, to watch her grieve on television. to see how that happened, to hear her talk about it, to hear her talk about it in such detail was really emotional. and you can tell she's feeling that as well. in terms of the things we do here in washington, it's clear that congresswoman wilson was absolutely correct in everything she described last week and the president repeatedly lied and dissembled and was inaccurate about what happened. miss johnson's comments are exactly what congresswoman wilson said, and the president for whatever reason chose not to be accurate. and it's also worth saying, i would like to have a president on one of those phone calls would be prepared for, would

know the soldier's name, would be able to have a conversation, would say the right things. and it's unfortunate that call went so poorly, that she was crying after the call ended. >> i mean, look, we've talked to many families who do say that the calls with the president went well. they were comforted by the president. i believe we have one coming up for you soon in this hour. so it's just this one that went wrong. by a.b., beyond what her takeaway was and how she felt about talking to the president, i didn't know that she has yet to see her husband's body. that was -- wow! the idea that whatever happened to him, that his remains are not such in whatever condition that his wife can't identify them and see them. and so she doesn't have that level of closure of just knowing that it's him that is in there. >> yeah, that was really the most profound part of it, to me. is that she needs answers about what happened and why his body is in this condition.

and like she said, she can see a finger, if that's all she can see. but she really needs to know that that's him. and that's that what really happened to him. she needs answers. and like all the gold star families we hear from, she said the same thing, she echoed the same thoughts. she just wants people to know who her husband was. that he was a great soldier and had high hopes for a military career. people in these situations want us to know their names. and so while i give president trump the benefit of the doubt of what he might have been attempting to say on that phone call, because we heard his chief of staff, general kelly, describe what he advised the president to say, that he was doing what he loved. it might have not gone the way he wanted it to go, but these families need to be treated a specific way. and running to twitter and coming up with fake stories about how somebody has lied about the phone call and obviously, that's not the way it went, makes it so much worse,

makes their pain worse. she needs answers. she doesn't need a big fight on twitter with the congresswoman. you know, i think we've, for the 18th time, we should all say, it's time for the president as well as congresswoman wilson to stop talking about this. >> i hope that her presence on television motivates need to get congress to find answers about this, to own their responsibility, to oversee military operations. but perry, people are going to be listening to hear how she vets the feud between trump and wilson. it is fair criticism that it takes two to tango here, right? wilson has been doing her part to keep this feud going with trump. yes, he's the president. yes, he's the commander in chief. yes, he should rise above. but that's not who he is. is it fair criticism to say it takes two to tango? >> i don't think so, chris, i don't. i really think in this situation, as miss johnson says, wilson knows the family, she knew this mr. johnson, she's speaking almost as a family

member in some way, she's grieving herself. so the idea that he needs to attack her personally, i don't know. i don't think this is a both sides situation, where it's equal. like, on saturday, congresswoman wilson is at the funeral and donald trump is tweeting, attacking her. no! this is not where both sides are equally to blame here. >> perry, i want to stick with you for one second because of what i read in the notes what you said. after what happened with general john kelly at the podium where he was giving his side of the story and he was talking about congresswoman wilson, that you now see him in a different light. how so? what do you now think his role is in the white house? >> up to now, i think a lot of people, myself included, have thought of him as someone who was kind of not involved in these feuds the president creates. the president is often very involved in a sort of culture war in the country. general kelly has generally avoided that. but i think in this instance, i was surprised to see him sort of jump into that and embrace that role. and then also embrace the role inaccurately. general kelly has not done what

the president has done until now, which is say inaccurate things. and it's hard to look at that video from what general kelly said on thursday and less than 24 hours later, mrs. wilson -- congresswoman wilson was not doing what kelly said. kelly wrongly, completely inaccurately described what she said. >> let's listen to the president talking about what kelly's experience was with this call and why he felt the way he did. >> he was so offended that a woman would be -- that somebody would be listening to that call. he was -- he actually couldn't believe it. actually, he said to me, sir, this is not acceptable. this is really not -- and he knew -- i was so nice. look, i've called many people. and i would think that every one of them appreciated it. i was very surprised to see this, to be honest with you. >> look, that could all be true, a.b. it could all be true. and yes, there are counterfacts

wh , why was kelly listening? and he's obviously needed on these calls given what happened in this one. but how do you analyze what kelly did in this situation, in terms of balancing his pain as a gold star parent, but he got it wrong about the fbi, he got it wrong about wilson's presence on this call. how do you balance out the exigencies here? >> i really think that this has been very hard for all of us who looked at general kelly as someone who sort of had the moral high ground and was kind of an unimpeachable character in public view. until he really went after mrs. wilson in very vigorous, negative terms, calling her names, an empty barrel, he used it several time and then he made up these facts. he might have remembered them that way, but they didn't happen that way. so people are now looking just like perry said at general kelly in a different light, not as a gold star father, but as someone speaking on behalf of the

administration and in defense of president trump. it is really not fair to criticize congresswoman wilson for being one of the people listening as an intimate of the family of the johnson family on speaker phone. it is fair for general kelly. he should have gotten up and said, why would he go on and talk to allisisyn camerota of c and say this man as a brain cancer and this will be his benghazi. that's the kind of thing that is unacceptable. but instead he went after her in this way that was incorrect, unfair, and really ugly. and i think he's lost some ground that we really counted him being on. and that's really changed the game in terms of the way we look at that relationship and what he says. >> you know, perry, there was another striking part about everything he said. so much of what general kelly said was striking, that it's hard to -- it takes a lot of time to unpack all of it. obviously, we were all moved by everything he said about his son. but in terms of the politics, he also said, you know, that he's sort of had this awakening of

things -- how much has changed. things used to be sacred in this world. like, for instance, women used to be treated sacredly, and gold star families used to be treated sacredly. well, it's his boss, the president, that has denigrated some of these things. i mean, we haven't even talked about that, because there's so much to talk about. but that was also a strange disconnect. >> if you look at that speech and read it carefully, at times, it almost seemed like he was criticizing donald trump while not criticizing donald trump. i mean, i know factually, we look at it, he was defending the president. but in a lot of the comments he made, the chief violator of those things. i mean, donald trump speaks about women a certain way in his charges of sexual harassment. donald trump, you know, attacked a gold star family. so it's really hard to look at those comments with general kelly and not think, you know, who do you work for and what do you mean by that? >> well, look, one thing is

clear. that general kelly is clearly not there to modulate or criticize this president. because that press conference would not have happened the way it did. and we just heard from a grieving widow who makes sit very clear that congresswoman wilson, as a.b. points out, the way she talked about the president, the things that she said, fair criticism. this is a political feud. but she was there for the right reasons. and that call went the way that she says it went. a.b., perry, thank you. >> thank you, guys. so a senate committee is taking a closer look at the niger attack that killed these four u.s. soldiers. should congress authorize military force in the wake of this ambush? should they reauthorize it? we're going to talk to a republican congressman about where they are with this, next. that can fix itself?

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the senate armed services committee says it's going to hold a hearing this week on the ambush that killed four u.s. soldiers in niger. top senators are admitting they did not know the u.s. had so many troops in the west african nation. republican and democrat. listen. >> i can say this to the families. they were there to defend america. they were there to help allies. i didn't know there was 1,000 troops in niger. john mccain is right to tell the military, because this is an endless war without boundaries, no limitation on time or geography. you've got to tell us more. >> senator graham didn't know we had 1,000 troops in niger. did you? >> no, i did not.

>> let's discuss with republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania. he visited the region surrounding niger over the summer as part of a congressional delegation. sir, good to have you on the show. >> thanks, chris. great to be with you. >> so schumer doesn't know how many are in niger. president obama put the soldiers there in 2013, 800. it seems as though there's been an increase since then. senator graham says he didn't know and that this is an unending war without boundaries. let me ask you, why isn't the accountability here not for president trump, he just got in there. it's on you guys. you have the congressional duty to declare war. you won't debate an aumf. graham doesn't know what's going on because he hasn't taken the time to figure it out and vote for it. the same for schumer and the rest of you. true or not? >> well, first, chris, let me say, i do think we need to update the aumf. i have been supportive of that. it has not happened. i recall the debates can during the obama administration. many of the democrats wanted to put on a lot of operational

controls on the commander in chief and a lot of the republicans didn't and we could never get to a consensus. i think that was really the issue. now, with respect to niger, i serve on the appropriations committee. i oversee military construction projects. in 2016, we put $50 million, we appropriated $50 million to refurbish an existing base for runways to take c-17s and other uavs. we have a presence there. not just there, but within that whole lake chad region, supporting local troops to suppofight boko haram, support operations in west africa and the operation in mali. so we have all sorts of people in that region fighting a very dangerous foe, and isis in west africa, especially. >> charlie, i get it. i'm not ascribing criticism to you, specifically. but i kind of am. because this aumf, this is -- you know, everybody says, i love the constitution. i'm all about the constitution. i'm a constitutionalist. this is one of the few outlying

specific duties to congress. and we know why this aumf hasn't been debated. everybody comes on the show and says they're in favor of it, but it doesn't happen, because it's easier not to do it. the presidents want the power. whether it was bush, obama, trump. they'll take the extra power from you guys. but it's your job to take it back and debate it, because look at what just happened in niger, and we have top senators saying, they weren't even aware of how many men were there. >> well, chris, i do agree with you that we should update this aumf. truth be told, the 2001 aumf, which was voted on before i came in the congress in 2005, is still valid. now, we can operate off of that, but, again -- >> everything has changed so much -- that's why i'm saying it. how can you say we're doing the same thing we were in 2001. 2002, there was another one, to authorize the war. obviously, people felt burned and they didn't want to get into that situation again. obama came to you guys and said, when the red line was crossed, not crossed, whatever, in syria,

he said, will you give me authorization? and it didn't happen. but that's on you guys, just as much as it is on any president, correct? >> it is on us, and i think congress should reassert its article i powers. not just in this area, but in others. we've seen an erosion of congressional authority over the years. and it started long before donald trump and certainly in the obama administration, they overreached, i felt, in many occasions. and before that, it also occurred, as well. so, yes, we've gt ot to take ba our article i power, not just on the declaration of war or the use of military force, but any number of other issues i believe congress has been stepped on by the executive branch. >> well, let's see what happens. you've got all the political currency you could want right now. you've got the widow of one of those fallen service members on tv this morning. i want to play a little bit of her sound. >> the president said that the congresswoman was lying about the phone call. >> whatever miss wilson said was not fabricated.

what she said was 100% correct. it was -- master sergeant neil, me, my aunt, my uncle, and the driver and miss wilson in the car. the phone was on speakerphone. why would we fabricate something like that? >> she wasn't inappropriately listening in. the family wanted her there. she didn't make up the family's reaction to their perceived insensitivity by the president. does the president owe congresswoman wilson an apology? >> well, i don't know exactly what was said between the president and this grieving widow. by the way, our sympathies go out to her and the other three families who lost their loved once. miss johnson, i'm very sorry -- >> if you're sympathetic, congressman, you just heard what she said happened. >> i heard what she said and i -- look, i think the president -- i -- i heard general kelly's explanation of what the president said, maybe he said this a bit awkwardly.

i don't know that they had bad intent -- >> nobody is saying he had bad intent. but he and the general said that wilson was full of it, she wasn't supposed to be on the call, and she was lying about what happened. and you just heard the widow, who should never be put in this position, but she has been. and there's plenty of blame to go around for that. but we now know that the call is what wilson said it was. >> well, laook, i don't think te president should have escalated this decision. look, we -- this is a grieving family. i've had the -- i've had the opportunity -- and stit's a difficult thing to do, to talk to a grieving family at the loss of a loved one in war. it's a very hard thing to do. i don't like to politicize this in any way. but at the same time, look, i think it would be better for the president -- it would be more gracious for the president to privately call her again and maybe try to clear things up. that's what i would do. i hope we're not beyond that. we didn't need to get into a fight between the congresswoman and the president. it doesn't serve anyone's interests. we should -- certain things are

sacred. you know, respecting and honoring the fallen should be one of those things that should never become political. >> let's move on from that. thank you for your words at the end there, congressman. you're coming to us from bethlehem, pennsylvania. a quick google analysis of your district shows that tax cuts to the middle class will mean a lot to the people who put you in office. what do you make of the criticism from democrats that this plan, this tax plan, is not a middle class-focused tax cut. it benefits the top tier the most and disproportionately so? >> well, i guess my argument would be, anytime we touch this tax code, we need to simplify it and make it more fair. it's over 70,000 pages long. my constituents want it simplified. they want to see the underbrush cleared out. they would like to see rates lowered. they understand that our business rates are noncompetitive and we need to get to a 21st century tax code. they understand that. and sure, i believe there will

be middle class tax reductions in this plan. can i say that nobody who's above a certain income will not get some kind of tax relief, they may be? >> but when the constituents come to you and they say, charlie, we put you there to help us. why are you helping the rich guys more than you're helping me and calling it a tax cut for me? what i don't you flip it and give me the disproportionate benefit. i need it more than they do. >> well, we are going to give middle class tax relief. but also, we should be honest, too, chris. the top 10% of income earners pay a disproportionate -- of the tax revenue in this country, that's where it's coming from. so it's hard to have this conversation and saying, well, can anybody in the top 10% not receive end reduction. it's hard to say that given that's where much of the revenue is. we're going to take rates down. there's going to be a new low rate at 10%. go from seven brackets down to three. i think that's important pb aan we're going to try to get this business tax code into the 21st century so we can be competitive

with europe. >> well, just be ready for the debate of will small business be benefited as much as big business? will the small guy be benefited as much as the big guy? certainly, your constituents there in that district are going to want to hear that debate argued out in full throat. we know you're retiring after this term. you're going too soon, charlie. it's good to have you on the show, as always. and we look forward to your role in the upcoming debate. >> well, thank you. i appreciate the opportunity. i hope to continue to be a voice on a lot of these issue going forward. thank. >> all right, congressman, be well. alisyn? we're following breaking news for everyone right now. secretary of state rex tillerson making a surprise visit to kabul, afghanistan today. tillerson is meeting with the afghan president to talk about the commitment to that country. this summer, president trump announced more troops would be sent to afghanistan fight the war on terror. well, president trump's condolence call with the johnson family did not go the way the family had hoped. now the family of another soldier killed in niger is talking about their call with president trump.

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president trump responding just moments ago to the widow of sergeant la david johnson on twitter. he writes, i had a very respectful conversation with the widow of sergeant la david johnson and spoke his name from the beginning without hesitation. this comes as the family of 29-year-old army staff sergeant dustin wright who was killed in that ambush in niger is also speaking out about their calls with the president and what sergeant wright was fighting for. dustin wright's brother, william wright, joins us now. william, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> we're so sorry about your loss. before we get to the phone calls that you've had with president trump, i just want to talk about something that everyone is talking about this morning, including the leading senators. do you know what your brother was doing in niger? did he explain his mission there? >> he did. this mission having served in afghanistan, i know it's something that goes unsaid a lot, but it's part of our global

strategy to combat terrorism. places unseen and unknown to most people. that's where terrorism and theirselves are growing, so -- >> was he comfortable with what he was doing in niger? did he feel as though the troops had enough security? did he share any of those things with you? >> well, i think as comfortable as you can be in combat, he was confident in his team and the men around him and we would all love to have apache gunships and air support and my situation in afghanistan was no different. we didn't have some of those resources. it's just, that's the nature of war today. you go to places far from home and a lot of unfriendly people and sometimes you do it with less than you'd like. >> congresswoman wilson has called what happened in niger, this ambush, president trump's benghazi.

and i'm wondering, do you think that this mission there and the ambush is a controversy? >> well, i think anytime something like this happens and it gets so much attention, especially when people didn't know we were there, it's going to be a controversy. i, for one, having experienced these situations, i don't see it as a benghazi situation. you know, that was very different. where americans were denied support by americans and it was highly controversial. and that was not war. that was a diplomat and his staff. this is a special operations detachment doing a mission that they were tasked to do and in a very hostile environment. it is a tragedy. it is. you know, there are families that are grieving, mothers that buried sons and wives that have to carry on without husbands. but i think to make that step is a bit far in my opinion, but i

know everyone is handling this process very differently. >> tell us about your phone call with president trump. what did he say to your family? >> i personally didn't talk to the president -- >> with your dad, yes. >> yes, yes. that's okay. it's a lengthy call. it was about 20 minutes. my father said he did 17 minutes out of the 20 talking, and i jokingly said, that was probably a record for president trump. but my father got to express his concerns as far as, you know, not just for my brother, but our military as a whole and the support they need, both with resources abroad and at home. and then he spoke to the president about my brother. and his life and his family and just, let him know who he was. >> boy, you and your brother look similar. we are showing pictures of him right now. and i know you guys were very

close. you're only 13 months apart. tell us about your brother, dustin. >> he's an incredible man. honestly, you see pictures and he's a force to be reckoned with. he's a large man and, you know, the only thing that ever overshadows that is his heart. he could lay down his life for you, but he'd sit down and talk to you and you would think he was the softest, most gentle person in the world. and you know, if you were around him more than five minutes and you weren't smiling, it was probably because he didn't like you, so -- and that didn't happen very often. >> i know that you've said there was no other path for dustin than to go into the military. what do you mean? >> i think what is very liberating in life is when you find out your purpose. when you discover who you're meant to be and a lot of the chains that we put on ourselves are released. that's what happened for dustin. he knew who he was meant to be and he found this path. and i think it's the only path

that was in his heart. and it fit him. it fit his personality. it fit the way he loved people and wanted to serve others. and he did that. all the way to the end. >> so, william, does your family have any lingering questions about what your brother was doing in niger and whether or not he was supported enough and whether or not this was just a tragic episode or whether or not it could have ended differently? >> i think anytime you have a loss like this, even from a military family, there's always questions you're going to want answered. and we understand there is an investigation going on and, you know, again, pulling from the experience we've had in the military, through my service, there are always going to be questions that you don't get the exact answers you want to. we've been given information a all along and we've been assured that when the time is appropriate and details are

completely ironed out, we'll get those answers. but we also understand, in the fog of war, the mind doesn't work like it does every other day. certain details you're protected from and stories differ from every perspective, so, you know, at the end of the day, we're honored by my brother's sacrifice and his service and we know his brothers that served with him, you know, they'll give us the answers they can and when the reports come out, we'll be excited to read them and have a little bit more closure. >> yeah. understood. william wright, thank you very much for being on with us and telling your brother's story and of course, for your family's sacrifice and service. nice to talk to you. >> yes, ma'am. thank you. >> chris? so are the national anthem protests hurting the nfl? wurn of the league's most well-known owners is speaking out. jerry jones from cowboy nation

taking on the controversy in the bleacher report, next. people would stare.

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woman: so, greg, it's a lot to take in. woman 2: and i know that's hard to hear, but the doctors caught it early. hi, blake! my dad has cancer. woman: and i know how hard that is to hear. but you're in the right place. man: and dr. pascal and her team, they know what to do. they know what to do. the doctors know what to do. so here's the plan. first off, we're going to give you all... (voice fading away) cowboys' owner, jerry jones,

says the national anthem protests are hurting the nfl. andy scholes has more in the bleacher report. this is something that should make the president happy. >> well, chris, you know, this was the first time jerry jones had spoken since last week's owner's meetings. and he said yesterday that the league is suffering the negative effects from these protests. jones also saying that league sponsors are, quote, concerned about the anthem protests and the potential damage that's being done to the league. and he added that at all times, he wants to do the right thing by his sponsors and their customers. all right. check out the fog last night at the super bowl rematch between the patriots and the falcons. it got so bad in the second half of the game that nbc had to switch to lower angles so you could see the field. now as for the actual action in the game, no need for the patriots to make a comeback in this one. atlanta didn't score a touchdown or any points until the fourth quarter.

new england won that game easily, 23-7. of course, all the conspiracy theorists were out during that game, alisyn, saying somehow the patriots had created this fog to get a competitive advantage on the field. foggate, they were calling it, of course. no truth to that. >> tom brady is that powerful. he controls the clouds. >> he can create fog. >> thank you so much, andy. so there's outrage after a "new york times" report that former knfox news host bill o'reilly settled a sexual harassment claim for $32 million with one woman. fox still renewed his contract after that. are these settlements buying women's silence? we discuss that, next. ♪

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"the new york times" reports that former fox news anchor bill o'reilly paid $32 million in january to a fox news analyst to settle a sexual harassment case. despite that, fox news renewed o'reilly's contract, giving him a $100 million contract. joining us to discuss all of this is cultural critic and writer, mikalah angela davis, and nancy erica smith, the

attorney for gretchen carlson who received a settlement for her claims against roger ailes. great to have you back. nancy, $32 million is such jaw-dropping number. what could possibly have happened? what -- what act would warrant a $32 million settlement? >> well, they said it was an unconsensual sexual relationship. a non-consensual sexual relationship. >> what does that mean? >> that means sexual assault or rape under the law. when you have a sexual contact without consent, that's either an assault or a rape. >> quick legal point for people out there. you're allowed, to do by contract, a lot of things between two people. are you allowed to settle a criminal claim? >> you're not really allowed to settle a criminal claim, but many law enforcement agencies,

if you resolve your claim and don't want to go forward -- >> because they don't have a willing victim and witness. >> exactly. they will let it go. the other thing that's interesting about this settlement that apparently, evidence has been destroyed, as a part of the settlement. >> they had to expunge all of the text messages and any sort of e-mails -- >> right. >> between them. >> right. now, i -- i don't blame miss wiehl at all, whatever happened to her, she deserves whatever she got, and i hope that she's peaceful. but it's unethical to destroy evidence. that might be evidence that other women could have used in claims against bill o'reilly, because it's dismissible how he treated other women. so destroying evidence may have been part of what that settlement is about. >> and yet, fox news about this. i don't know that they knew the amount, because he settled it, it sounds like privately, without having to disclose it to fox. but they knew there was some issue before they then offered him another contract for $100

million. >> certainly, six claims, at least. so i think what it speaks to is that there's a culture that's being supported. and the agreement almost is like, don't get caught, right? and $32 million is not a settlement, it is a silencing. you know, and your opening statement, it's a silencing of women. and now i think we're saying there's no price tag on that. because what would $32 million merit is that, is to silence you. and you have these little men with big bank accounts that have been doing this to women floi ongoingly. >> are the victims supposed to not seek those deals? >> no, they should, but what they're asking you to do is take this nonconsensual relationship. that sounds like rape -- like, call a thing a thing, right? so here's $32 million for you to be raped and be quiet. >> yeah. >> so that these other women can't find their voice. and that's -- this is the deluge

that we're seeing now. the voices of women coming forward and coming together. >> but this is where it gets confusing, nancy. because women don't have to take those settlements. gretchen didn't have to take $20 million. and even she yesterday, on reli"reliable sources," talked t how it has a silencing effect. let me just play gretchen's words for everyone from yesterda yesterday. >> i think it's horrifying and outrageous that any company, after dismissing somebody for allegations such as that would not only resign a contract, but allow that person to come a back on the air. we are on a movement to speak up and be heard. and there's no turning back for women in the workplace. why should women have the american dream taken away from them? we work just as hard as anyone else. and it's time that it stops. >> that's really powerful, but that's not the one that i was hoping for. i will read for you the one, unless we have it, the one that

i was hoping for, which is, we're fooling society into thinking we don't have a problem with this issue anymore. why? because we don't hear about these cases. but why is because women are shut up into silence, beaccey accepting a settlement, and who would walk away from a $32 million settlement? but you have to be silent. you don't have to take that settlement, right? >> but gretchen wasn't silent. we publicly sued and she got a public apology as part of her settlement. she wasn't silent, but i don't blame the women at all. what are you supposed to do? go to court and spend two years being viciously attacked? the attacks on these women, on twitter and on social media, are scary and awful. she -- she was followed and surveilled. >> the emotional toll -- and these are rich, privileged women. this is happening in post offices, at fast food restaurants -- >> they don't get settlements -- >> right, they don't get

settlements. women have had to survive. this is another level of survival. and we have to separate the money from the morality. so just because there's a price tag on it doesn't mean that -- >> just, what's the answer? taking a settlement but not agreeing to be silenced? >> the answer is -- >> you're not going to get a deal -- >> outlaw nondisclosure disagreements. senator loretta weinberg -- >> you're not going to get a settlement? >> you're not going to get a settlement. >> but you have to sue first. you're not going to get a private deal, because the bargain is your silence. >> you still might get a settlement, but it will have to be disclosed. and you know what we might get ultimately? an end to this. which is all of our goals, especially the victims' goals. >> nancy erika smith, mikalah angela davis, thank you both for being on. all right, "cnn newsroom" with poppy harlow and john berman will pick up right after this break. there's a lot of news. please, stay with cnn. watch me.

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he's brought us to the obstructed justice at the fbi. and in direct violation of the constitution, he's taken money from foreign governments and threatened to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer and, like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less.

yet, today, people in congress and his own administration know this president is a clear and present danger who is mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. top of the hour. good morning, everyone. i'm poppy harlow. >> i'm john berman. the breaking news this morning, why can't you remember his name? the widow of la david johnson, one of four u.s. soldiers killed