the first arrests in bob mueller's russia investigation could happen as early as today. >> it is important to emphasize whatever it is is really just the beginning. >> i have not yet seen any definitive evidence of collusion. >> if something develops that is more serious it will take up some space. >> it is not a side show. we continue the hard work of getting to what happened. >> president trump shifting attention to hillary clinton. >> there are other things that seem to be much more evidence of cooperation with russia. >> we have seen this before. deflection, distraction, turning it around into something else. >> i understand why he continues to bring up hillary clinton because it is political crack for his base. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> we'll be talking about all of that. good morning, everyone. welcome to your "new day".

up first, sources tell cnn that the first arrest in special counsel robert mueller's russia investigation could happen as early as today. cnn was first to report that a federal grand jury returned the first indictment on friday. we do not know the nature or target of that indictment. president trump once again slamming the russia investigation as a witch-hunt, claiming it's hillary clinton and the democrats that should bear the scrutiny. >> all of this threaten to go derail what should be a big week for the president trump. tax plan on wednesday. is it the middleclass targeted cut we were told it would be by the president? he is also expected to announce his pick for federal reserve chief. that's before he 'em barks on a five-nation trip to asia. we have it all covered. let's begin with jessica schneider live in washington. what's the word? >> reporter: well, chris, it could be a big day here in washington. we could learn what charges are as soon as today and who will be arrested and taken into custody.

right now, though, the charges are still under seal, under orders from a federal judge. we know as we first reported friday that this is the first indictment in this months-long russia probe by special counsel robert mueller. the first arrest in special counsel robert mueller's russia investigation could happen as early as today. >> i think anybody who has been advised by the special counsel's office that they're a target of the investigation, which i'm sure he has done to the people who are, should be concerned. >> reporter: as part of the five-month-long investigation, including potential collusion with trump campaign associates, multiple members of trump's inner circle have can many under scrutiny. paul manafort. they raided his home back in july. the investigation includes possible money laundering and manafort's work lobbying for a pro-russian political party in ukraine. >> we know the russian

government, through intermediaries, was reaching out to the trump campaign, paul manafort and others, is and offering information on hillary clinton they thought would help the trump campaign. >> manafort denied being in contact with russians known for u.s. intelligence. also under scrutiny, michael flynn, who trump ousted for failing to disclose his contacts with russia. >> we don't know who is being charged, what they're being charged for. >> reporter: trey gowdy defending the problem as colleagues call for a stop to the investigation. >> i would encourage my republican friends, give the guy a chance to do his job. >> reporter: his job ramping up in recent weeks. grilling reince priebus and sean spicer earlier this month over the firing of fbi director james comey at a closed door oval office meeting with sergey lavrov. of the summer, investigators

meeting with christopher steele over seas, a former british spy, whose now infamous dossier shows russian efforts to help the trump campaign. it includes possible obstruction of justice for trying to impede the investigation by removing james comey. mueller's team scrutinized mr. trump and his financial ties to the kremlin. >> there was no collusion on my side. i can tell you that. >> reporter: independent senator angus king questioning that. >> we're the ones doing the investigation. it is way premature to say that a conclusion has been reached. >> so while the who and what surrounding the charges are still unknown, we know deputy attorney general rob rosenstein

would have been known of the charges before taken to the grand jury. he has oversight over the russia investigation since attorney general jeff sessions recused himself. so the mystery still surrounds this indictment. it is watch and wait to see when the indictment is unsealed and who exactly will face charges. chris. >> thank you very much, jess kafplt so president trump is trying to shift the focus onto hillary clinton and the democrats, insisting that this dossier is proof that she was colluding with russia. joe johns live at the white house with more. doesn't really follow the chain of logic but seems fairly compelling in terms of passion. >> reporter: that's true, chris. now, the white house certainly is watching and waiting right now, on ejiofor sure. this is a president who loves to tease out details of coming events.

he has been active on twitter. he has not talked directly about special counsel. but he has resorted to the playbook for politics in this situation, focusing on democrats, raising questions about hillary clinton and people of her party. here is some of the tweet. talking about collusion which doesn't exist, he says. the democrats are using this terrible and bad for our country witch-hunt for evil politics. but the r's are fighting back like never before. there's so much guilt, he writes, by democrats/clinton. the facts are now pouring out. do something, he writes in all caps. all of this talk when the republicans are making their big push for historic tax cuts and reform. is this coincidental? not. then ty cobb, the president's lawyer moving quickly to say this is not about robert mueller at all.

contrary to what many suggested, it is unrelated to activities of special counsel with whom he continues to cooperate. the only thing on the president's public schedule today points to the bitter timing of this, he has a halloween at the white house back to you. >> let's bring in our panel to discuss all of this. we have chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin, gagliano and simone broke investigation. we don't know what's going on obviously to happen today. we don't know who will be charged. we don't know if it will happen today. we also don't know if somebody is charged today, necessarily if it has to do with the trump campaign or if they have found something else shady they are being charged for now. >> that's right. it's important to remember that mueller's jurisdiction is broad.

he basically can define it himself. he started with matters relate to get 2016 campaign. but we know he has been investigating matters relating to the personal financial affairs of paul manafort regarding his payments from ukraine. he's been investigating the activities of michael flynn on behalf of the government of turkey, which also could be the focus of charges. those will -- just because the charges today do or do not relate to the 2016 campaign doesn't mean he later won't investigate. so we need to recognize whatever happens today, if we learn what the charges are today, that does not necessarily sir couple describe what he is investigating. >> was there any suggestion why they were under seal? if it was about being worried about the target of them fleeing, on or was this just about the secrecy of the overall procedure?

>> i think more it was because of the secrecy of the proceedings. we were not told why they were sealed. it is is usually standard operating procedures. other than our own in tuition, we were on not given any indication why it was sealed. >> can i ask you, do we really think there will be news today? what makes us think this will be the day that people surrender? >> it's just based off what our sources have told us. every indication has been that things were planned for today. as you know, jeffrey, when they lose words like we expect law enforcement activity on monday, look, things change. you know over the weekend deals could have been worked out. people say i want to cooperate now. prosecutors and investigators could change their minds to work out a deal.

we won't do this monday. everything that we have been told was to expect stuff to happen today. >> and if you're counsel, you certainly are going to try to decide away from today if you can. >> do you keep it longer? >> look, the whole point of this deal is, if you are representing one of the targets, okay, one of the subjects of this indictment, is integrity. to have a no perp walk. we'll see what happens. >> chris, to your point, there are two things hiding in plain sight. back in july, the fbi raided paul manafort's home. they did it with a search warrant. there had to be probable cause. they did this a day after two manafort and attorneys turned over thousands documents. to make that gesture right afterwards, that's compelling.

>> what does that tell you? >> they feel not everything was turned over or talks broke down. to avoid the perp walk, they were implying. and wasn't it last week carter page testified. that's when the news broke that indictments were forth coming. >> we don't know for a fact, by you the way, that it will be that side of the equation. if you start with little fish lead to big fish, there are other names out there, jeffrey, that aren't necessarily republican names where they could bring somebody in and say we're indicting you pause of how you reported money. how can you tell us you came into contact with these other people? >> that's right. what we don't know is significant here. yes, it is true. this is an important point. in a white collar crime investigation is, to execute ale search warrant of someone whom you have already subpoenaed

means you don't trust that person. that was an extremely hostile act. whether that means he will be indicted, i don't know. but it is not speculation. it's an actual fact that they did execute a search warrant at his house. >> and they did so in an overt and hostile way. >> absolutely. >> here's what we do know. here's all the people who have been interviewed in the special counsel's investigation in the last few weeks. a long list there. >> being interviewed doesn't mean you're a target. rob rosen stein is on this list. >> not a target, we assume. >> most of the people interviewed are witnesses. not subjects of the investigation, but people who can help assemble evidence against other people. >> let's not forget, you could have an indictment down on a russian. there could be some type of nexus. it could come down on someone

not related to the campaign but had contact with the campaign. >> jeffrey, is it unusual that there was a leak of a grand jury charge pending? >> it suspect unusual to have the leak of the fact that there was a sealed indictment. the whole fact of the sealed indictment is the person indicted doesn't know he's been indicted, or she. that's why you do a sealed indictment, so you can grab someone so they can't flee. most indictments are not sealed. they are public indictments. the person knows they have been charged. they are expected to turn themselves in. >> but they did file this, right? >> i don't know what the procedure was exactly. maybe shimon can help us with that. >> we know you got it through your own sources. what do they do the with indictments? were they filed in court? >> we were told, evan perez and

pamela brown and i were told that the charges were filed on friday. >> but that's not a public -- >> that just means they were returned. >> that the chief judge of the district of column pea gentleman got it. but the whole point of a sealed indictment is the person who is charged doesn't know he's been charged so he can't flee. that's an aggressive step. a sealed indictment suggests that the person who has been indicted can't be trusted to show up. >> it is just as likely in this case that it is is sealed from us but the person who may be the target of it may well know about it and are negotiating the terms around it. >> perhaps. >> usually they are for -- >> i got you. this is different. jeffrey was at the u. s. attorneys' office many years. he knows how to do these much better than i. simone, final word. >> they were expecting some

surrenders, working stuff out. that's the other part of why we think this was happening today. it is worth cautioning everyone, we just don't know. everything is is being so tightly kept. it is is all a secret is by now. no one is reis vealing anything to us. we have expectations. we are told to expect things. whether or not that happened, we still don't know. we're all wait to go see. >> day two. >> gagliano, don't commit to the zumba class just yet. this does not come easy. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. president trump plaming hillary clinton and her connection to the dossier and the uranium deal. we bring you the facts first next. if you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems and could be on the journey to much worse. help stop the journey of gum disease. try parodontax toothpaste. ♪

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hillary clinton's campaign paid for the research by former british spy chris officer steele. and he put together the so-called dossier. yes, both say they knew about the dossier. it was funded technically by a lawyer and a firm. but still it is is right. this is something that the democrats were behind. their money came into fusion, the agency that did the research before steele was retained. why? because this was about research, finding dirt on donald trump. not about working with russia. by the way, steele is not a russian agent. he was a british agent. so was the dossier the basis of the russia investigation as alleged by the president? no. officials on both side say the raw intelligence is one marginal

aspect. didn't raufrpb it, yes. but the fbi did use some of that in an application for a warrant on one of the trump staffers. they had to go before a judge and made the the case. what about the fact that carter page was wire tapped? again, they had to go before a judge. the dossier is not the basis for the mueller investigation. they could have used some of the information. they said they presented it, james comey did, it was out there and he needed to know about it. let's talk about what else is out there. when we say this judge put out the warrant, that should matter to you. they had to find a legal standard. did hillary clinton collude with russia? we don't have any facts to bring us to that point. logically, it doesn't make sense. why? because she was a victim of what the intelligence community

concluded was russian interference. and the efforts were to hurt clinton and help trump, right? so hiring an ex-were british intelligence officer, not a russian, not a hostile foreign agent, is not the same as helping russians. and the aouranium one deal. it is just not true. obama administration did oversee the right of, traction of 20% uranium to a russian-controlled company out of canada. uranium, which can never been exported, by the way. it doesn't go to making weapons. it goes to making nuclear energy. the deal was approved by nine agencies, led by the state. hillary clinton was secretary of state. what does that tell us, though? she weighed in. but she didn't control it. now, what about the donations?

they did accrue. but before hillary clinton was secretary of state. that would have been some clever timing. how the money got into that investigation all real. but it proving collusion with russia and hillary clinton, i don't see it on the facts. let's put this to a better mine of mind. ken cuccanelli. thank you for taking this on. appreciate it. >> good morning, chris. how are you? it is certainly not boring, is it? >> it's never boring, but it is important. >> it is is. >> people pick up some crumbs, they start moving down a road, it gains momentum. we need to check it. so let's test it right now. do you see a case in advance of the president's proposition that hillary clinton was colluding with the russians by funding the research that went into the dossier?

>> yeah. i think your defense of hillary clinton starts from her side. but from the russian perspective, look, they were trying to interfere with our election. once they had the contact through to tphps and s.e.a.l. and so forth, they could work it from the other end. as we saw with facebook and google, they didn't just support trump. they were around ferguson stirring things up and other activities like that. so once they had that connection, whether the dnc and the clinton campaign started out looking to connect up with the russians, ultimately they did. but a question from the counterintelligence standpoint, how did they use that contact for their advantage or attempted to be used for their advantage? much of this discussion about the 2016 election, almost all of it really so far should be

counterintelligence investigation. that of course has gone on in part. we'll see later today. today will be an interesting day. we have learned about the charges in place. whether they are actually related to the election or whether it is because the investigation turned up something outside the election like we talked about with paul manafort, that would change my direction. >> manafort has been steadfast of any suggestion that he has done anything unlegal. let's up pack what you said there. once the russians had the contact. i get that as to why you have to take to paige, trump's kids, kushner and trump jr. maybe unwittingly they were

creating avenues of opportunity. i don't see it. this is a neophyte. this was an intelligence agent. what he found in sum was unverified proof, high-level word, fancy word for gossip. >> rumor. >> yes. yes. the russians were trying to interfere and they were trying to help trump and hurt clinton. i don't know if that advances the ball for russia. so that's why i don't get how you're making the same productive argument. i see with trump jr. how do you make that working the sources? >> well, but even -- let's just compare it to the donald jr. meeting. they went to get to hillary to get it. they didn't care who they were getting it from. that's who they were after. they weren't after like

assistance. >> they knew. >> true. >> and steele made contact with the russians. >> his sources. >> no, he was. >> his sources. >> he was looking for help. that's right. as we have seen with with a lot of these sources, they are related back to the russian government. this was a very comprehensive effort on the part of the russians. and it would be naive of us to think when they were working so many angles in so many channels, they weren't working this one when they found out it existed. >> they are trying to help trump and hurt clinton, how is does that line up -- >> that is not the only effort. >> there was a lot of salacious stuff we wouldn't report. >> well, that's right. the point on the other side was to make some of that stick. did it? you know, people still talk bit.

i don't know that it had any effect. because it wasn't reported until after the election was never. those known to the press before the election was over to a certain degree. i think this is one more piece of a broader intelligence cover that we will see unfold over time. some of you you and i are going to see. it is counterintelligence. it is not a criminal investigation. it doesn't have to go before a judge and put in a public forum at any time. what we will see today is the fruits of the investigation that do have to be made public and appears likely to be done. >> we will see. i'm not putting a lot into the stock thing. they could change in terms of timing. they don't think someone will he flee. it has happened in the past. we know with he think this is a function of negotiation with

sensitive names and times. >> i agree with you. a case like this, very unlikely to see someone flee. >> ken, thank you for arguing the other side. very important to have on the show. >> good to be with you, chris. >> be well. alisyn. the niger ambush is fueling the debate. the senate will grill the secretary of state rex tillerson and secretary of defense james mat his today on capitol hill. the ranking democrat on that senate panel joins us with what he wants to know next. [ train whistle blows ] what?! -stop it! -mm-hmm. we've been saving a lot of money ever since we switched to progressive. this bar is legit. and now we get an even bigger discount from bundling home and auto. i can get used to this. it might take a minute. -swing and a miss! -slam dunk! touchdown! together: sports!

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so many questions about the extent of u.s. military operations in africa. david, what have you learned? >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. yes, there is a sense that the questions are still swirling around this ambush that happened in october pretty close to where i'm standing right now. later today the secretary of defense and secretary of state will be on capitol hill. they may face more tough questions on this ambush and on

the issue of the use of military force. their authorization of that force. since 9/11, a few days after 9/11, the president of the u.s. had been given broad powers in the fight against terrorism in the homeland and of course abroad. that debate predated this ambush. many answers are still to come. >> thank you for reporting and

being on the ground. senator of maryland that will hold today's hearing. senator, thank you very much for being here. >> alisyn, good to be with you. >> what do you want to hear from secretary of state james tiller ton and james mat his. >> there will be a great deal of interest to the specific episode in niger. we want to know what went wrong and what happened. the basic point we're going to want to find out is under what authority are we -- do we have in africa. it is hard to believe that that authorization is relevant to what's happening today in northern africa. certainly congress did not intend that. so we will be looking at congressional authority for our troops. what is your mission?

what are we doing there? what is the end game there. certainly we will ask specific questions about what happened in this episode. >> do you believe, as david mckenzie said, that it is mission creek. >> i would suggest it was not contemplated when congress passed the 2001 authorization against the taliban is examine what is happening in afghanistan. we have seen in mission creek the last 17 years. the question is what is your game plan. how do we bring this to an end. what type of military force does congress need. congress shouldupdate it and be specific about it. >> why haven't they dup that in recent years? >> we can do it in 2001. why not go back to congress and get a more specific authorization. it is difficult to do without the support of the

administration. those who want to give broad authority to the white house. others who want to make it much more restrictive. we have not been able to come together. >> how do you gauge where you are today? is there the appetite and spine in congress to say we are fighting terrorists in far flung places and the globe. clearly president trump talks about that all the time. i think you have acceptance from the white house. do you think this can be done now? >> let me make it clear. congress wants to give the tools he needs to fight terrorism wherever it may be. the trump administration has specifically asked congress not to change the 2001 authorization. they're satisfied. >> why is that? >> because it's been interpreted by the bush administration, obama kpheupb tradition and now the trump administration to giving broad powers to use force whenever the president wants to

against terrorists. even though it was passed in response to the 9/11 attack against our country, it has been used by administrations in its broader sense. those of us in congress believe this is a misuse of authorization that we should have a specific authorization tore two reasons. one, it is congress's responsibility. secondly, it would show the world that we're united, congress and the president, in the use of our military to find terrorists and take out terrorists. >> the next issue while i have you, what are your concerns about the tax plan expected to be presented? >> i think my major concern -- two major concerns. it blows a hole in the deficit. secondly, i don't believe it's fair. it is is not going to help middle income familiesment the wealthy are the ones who get most of the breaks and will go

up against medicare, medicaid and programs important to middle income families. so i think it's basically aimed at helping wealthy people. it blows a hole in our deficit. there is a much better way of doing this. >> a few details have come out. what if the state and local tax deductions were to go away. and what if 401(k)s were somehow to be tampered with. would this be able to move forward? >> as you point out, there will be an attack on the deduction for state and local taxes. that's double taxation. it is against federalism. it hurts so many families. so many around the country use that deduction. on the 401(k), it is a timing issue. it also affect people's ability to save now for their retirement security. i can tell you there will be

bipartisan opposition to those provisions. we shouldn't mess around the 401(k)s and state and local tax reduction should be retained. >> what do you think the president's plan is? >> we will see wednesday when it's released in the house. we are hoping to have a real open process. we need tax reform. tax reform needs to be focused on middle income families. it needs to be deficit neutral. we don't want to add to the deficit. things we can do to improve the tax code. the way we are heading helping the wealthy is something that i hope does not happen. ? senator ben cardin, thanks so much for being on "new day". a very different story coming up. what a story of survival. two women at sea for five months. can you imagine that? they are back on dry land.

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spacey was 26. he posted a statement on twitter saying he was horrified by the allegation but did not recall the encounter. he added, if i did behave as he describes i apologize for deeply inappropriate drunken behavior. he said i have had relationships with both women and women. i choose now to live as a gay man. i want to deal with this honestly and hoping and that starts with examining my own behavior. >> so powerful people take advantage of less powerful people. that's what we have learned the past few weeks. and we will have the conversation about that in terms of all of this conversation of sexual harassment where we are today and if anything is changi changing. >> he was 14. a little bit of a different nature. and spacey isn't talking about a

power dynamic. he's talking about a drunken one. the rationale is only as good as its proof. >> you have to hear this story. two women stranded at sea for five months on a storm battered sailboat. they remember rescued by a u.s. navy ship 900 miles off japan. ivan watson spoke to the women and joins us live from okinawa. how is this possible, ivan? >> reporter: it's pretty incredible. i mean, and the scenes when they arrived on shore here at a u.s. naval base aboard the uss ashland were of euphoria and gratitude to the sailors who rescued them. they deported a 50-foot sailboat from hawaii on may 3rd from what was supposed to be an 18-day journey to tahiti. they were battered by storms which damaged the ma is st of

the boat, messed up the motor and screwed up their telecommunications and sal light phones. take a listen. >> we had no vhf, no range on it. no weather com. no ssb, single side band. we didn't have a ham radio. and our telephone inside the boat was not working. and also our sat phone was not working. >> how is it possible that all of these different communications devices malfunctioninged? >> they are dependent on the antenna. when the antenna went out, everything went out. >> so check this out, the sailboat drifted for five months, they say, until a gps coordinate provided to the u.s. navy from a taiwanese fishing boat marked them at nearly 3,000 miles away from hawaii. they say they survived from large stockpiles of food, water

desalinization kit. and the love of their two dogs, zeus and valentine who i can report are incredibly healthy and friendly. after this incredible ordeal, they are safe in okinawa and trying to figure out where to go next since that boat was their home and they had to abandon it when they left on board that u.s. warship. chris? that's an interesting thought you made. intuitively we thought they couldn't wait to get off that boat. if it's all you have known for five months. can't wait for that book, movie and raft of interviews that go along with it. ivan, thank you for securing those interviews. what an amazing tale. thank you, my friend. wow. five months. can you imagine? anyway, almost as long as this world series game we will tell you about now. it was one of the longest games ever. you had the astros now one win away from their first title

ever. andy scholes, you look pretty good, buddy. it doesn't matter how much you sleep, huh? >> chris, the astros are in the world series. you don't get much sleep when you're a big fan like myself. it was amazing game. game five just as good if not better. the range of emotions both of the fan bases went in this one. just incredible. trading haymakers. the lead went back and forth, back and forth. maybe there is something to that whole juice ball theory as well. eight home runs. five different astros going yard. l.a. was down to their final strike in the ninth inning when chris taylor came through with a game-tieing single up clutch hit from him. and in the middle of the tenth, alex bregman was your hero for the astros. fisher sliding into home. 13-12 was your final. the astros lead the serious three games to two.

they can win their first-ever world series tomorrow night as the series shifts back to l.a. for game six. alisyn? >> very exciting, andy. thanks so much. so puerto rico is trying to scrap a $300 million contract with a company that was supposed to help them restore their power. will puerto rico's governor fire the head of the island's power authority over this? what will he do? the governor joins us live, next. ♪ when heartburn hits fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum tums chewy bites.

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you just shop, compare, and save. and it's all free. go to lendingtree right now and start saving. we do have important breaking news for you right now. cnn has learned that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort will surrender today in special counsel robert mueller's investigation. as you know, we've been talking about this morning. there was great speculation about who might be charged and

now cnn has this reporting. cnn's evan perez joins us with all of the breaking details. what have you learned, evan? >> alisyn, later today that we expect that this indictment is going to be unsealed in federal court here in washington. but paul manafort is planning to turn himself into the fbi for processing and then for the court proceedings to take place later today. again, later this morning, we expect that paul manafort will turn himself in to the fbi and we'll learn more about the charges. at this point, we do not know the charges. they are still under seal, as we previously reported. these indictments have been approved by the grand jury, last week, on friday. and we had expected that today, at least today we'd see some court action, perhaps the indictments being unsealed and the arrests being made. so now we now know that he is planning to turn himself into the fbi. now we also are told that there may be at least one other indictment that will be unsealed later today.

we're trying to work to figure out what that is about and we'll tell you more when we find out. alisyn? >> all right. so evan, "the new york times" is reporting that mr. gates, a former business associate of manafort, rick gates, may also be part of what we see in the activity today. so let's give people a little bit of context of why it would be manafort. the biggest indication we've seen from the special counsel so far was the knock and bust at his house that the fbi did, right after the -- the timing is significant. right after manafort had gone in and met with the special counsel's team. what was the reporting on why those two events happened the way they did? >> reporter: well, what happened was, the -- manafort's lawyers really thought that they, you know, could have some kind of an arrangement, they could talk to the special counsel's team, so they were kind of taken by surprise when, in late july, the fbi showed up at his home, before dawn, with guns drawn.

he and his wife were still in bed when they were woken up by the federal agents. and they were searched in bed for weapons. and then they proceeded the to do a couple hours' of searching, taking away financial records, tax records, and what the indication that they had, chris, was that the investigation involved tax crimes, financial crimes, going back -- all the way back to 2006, which is what the investigation -- the scope of this investigation had become. and in particular, they seemed to be interested in the tax year 2010. 2011 would be the year that you would file those taxes. and we know that he filed his -- he asked for an extension and ended up filing his taxes late. so that brings us to october. and that's one reason why we've been watching for some action on manafort this month. because the statute of limitations runs out on any possible charge regarding tax year 2010. that runs out this month. so, it's not surprising to me

that they've brought these charges today. certainly before the end of this month. because the prosecutors want to make sure that they'll be able to get these charges on file, and then they continue their investigation, even after they've made these first initial charges. >> that's interesting. i mean, and all of that new information is interesting. tomorrow is the end of the month. so, obviously, they had to act with alacrity here. and what you're saying, what i think you're suggesting, is that this is about his previous work in ukraine -- >> right. >> -- more than what may or may not have happened in the 2016 campaign? >> well, but hold on. evan, just to provide the context, it's about his tax reforms, so you'll have to look at where they're seeing the money come from. ukraine could be part of it, but not all of it. this is a very open-ended category for them in terms of what they can pursue now and later. >> right, exactly. that's exactly right, chris.

this is -- you know, look, you have to look at this event today as possibly a down payment on a much bigger story. this is -- the way prosecutors work, especially if they're facing some kind of deadline, you can file charges and then do a superceding indictment and add additional charges. we know that they're doing a wholesale review of eeverything manafort has done, going back to, you know, over a decade. so, we don't know what else they've been able to earth. and certainly, the indictment has not even been unsealed yet. so we don't know what else they're charging, whether it has anything to do with the 2016 election, we don't know that yet. >> but you mentioned gates, another name that the new york tooums times is bringing up in terms of he may also be involved. who is is he? how does he fit in? >> rick gates worked with manafort on this ukraine project. which is, they were trying to help the ruling -- then the ruling party in ukraine with various lobbying activities here

in the united states, in europe, for instance. and so they had hired the a couple of lobbying firms here in washington. the question has been, you know, whether or not these men were supposed to register as foreign agents, because they were doing this work for the former ruling party in ukraine. they did not initially do that. they have now corrected that. they filed retroactively a registration under the foreign agents' registration act earlier this year, chris, a and alisyn. so both of these men, we knew, were certainly the focus of this investigation, at least parts of the focus of this investigation. and so it's not a surprise that these charges would be brought, you know, against manafort, and as you said, i believe "the new york times" is reporting that rick gates may also have been notified about possible charges. >> evan, it's the top of the hour here on the east. it's 8:00. so for people that are just joining us. let's recap the big breaking news this morning. cnn had reported on friday that charges would be