we also have to come up with punishment far greater than the animals are getting right now. >> all president trump does is take horrible advantage. >> the fact that we have a lottery system. >> what she was saying is not true. >> he's going to continue to use immigration as a divisive issue to scare people. >> he found 90 videos of isis propaganda. >> he wanted to continue his rampage onto the brooklyn bridge. >> he's sending a message not only to americans but to people overseas. >> this is "new day" with chris

cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning. welcome to "new day". poppy harlow joins me. >> we know a lot more now. >> absolutely. there is a new wrinkle. late night tweeting once again changing the dynamic of a very important story. new york terror suspect he says should be executed. just after the president called the america judicial system a joke is and laughing stock. harsh on immigration, restricting who can come into this country. >> we're also learning stunning new details about the attack in this city. prosecutors say the suspect was inspired by isis. authorities also revealed he planned to continue this killing spree, trying to kill more innocent civilians.

>> reporter: good morning, poppy. president trump react to go outrage focusing on punishment, talking about the death penalty which is unusual for a president. blasting the legal system. and at the same time getting democrats into a debate over immigration, raising questions about when it's appropriate to start talking politics after a national tragedy. >> diversity, lottery sounds nice. it's not nice. >> reporter: overnight president trump tweeting that the suspect in new york city's terror attack should get death penalty. the president also saying he would consider the suspect labeled an enemy combatant by the white house to the controversial prison at guantanamo bay, cuba. >> send them to get poe. i would certainly consider that, yes. >> reporter: mr. trump continue to go politicize tuesday's tragedy to advance his immigration policies. >> we want to immediately work

with congress on the diversity lottery program on terminating it, getting rid of it. >> the president calling for an end to the visa lottery program, a program that allowed the new york city terror suspect to gain entry to the u.s. in 2010 and demanding congress get tougher on vetting for immigrants coming to the u.s., shifting away from a family-based system to a merit-based one. >> we have to get much less politically correct. we're so politically correct that we are afraid to do anything. >> the president blaming new york's democratic senator chuck schumer for implementing the program and endangering the country. schumer helped craft the bill signed into law by president george h.w. bush in 1990. but in 2013, schumer was part of a bipartisan group known as the gang of eight that pushed to end the diversity program. >> the president ought to stop tweeting and start leading.

it's less than a day after it occurred. he can't refrain from his nasty divisive habits. he ought to lead. >> and venting his frustration at u.s. courts insisting they are too slow, too lenient. >> we have to come up with punishment that's far quicker and far greater than the punishment these animals are getting right now. because what we have right now is a joke. and it's a laughing stock. >> sarah sanders characterizing remarks when asked by reporters. >> he said the system of justice -- >> he said the process. he said the process has people calling us a joke and calling us a laughing stock. >> the president's comments and tweets starkly different from the mass shooting in las vegas that left 58 dead and injuring hundreds more. the president then dismissing

the idea of discussing gun control as inappropriate. it took 24 hours for the president to reach out to new york's leaders after the attack. but the governor making clear the president's tweets are a distraction. >> the president's tweets were not helpful. i don't think they were factual. i think they tended to point fingers and politicize the situation. >> today is expected to be another big day here at the white house as the president unveiled his pick for chairman of the federal refb not to be overlooked is house republicans as they unveil their tax plan. chris, back to you. >> joe johns, thank you very much. we're just 24 hours after the attack in new york. you have prosecutors releasing incredible details from their questioning of the suspect. the criminal complaint revealing how long the attack was planned, why it was planned, what role

isis played and what he wanted to do that he wasn't able to. what do we know, my friend? >> that's right, chris. we know that he wanted to inflict a lot more damage than he was able to. we're learning a lot more about the planning, how darkly premeditated it was. we're learning that because he waived his miranda rights and is speaking with investigators. when you listen to the tone, you see the tone of the quotes, it sounds like he's proud of it. we know this attack was in the works, the planning was in the works for about a year. it was only about two months ago that he decided to use a truck likely because he saw how deadly effective it was in europe in places like better minute, barcelona and london. we want that he chose halloween afternoon because so many people would be out and about in that criminal complaint that you referenced. authorities saying that he wanted to kill as many people as he could. >> the man accused of carrying

out a mile long killing spree on a new york city bike path officially charged on federal terrorism charges, including providing support to isis. >> he appears to have followed almost exactly to a t the instructions that isis has put out. >> authorities revealing chilling new details about how 29-year-old saipov became radicalized while living in the u.s. prosecutors say he began plotting the attack one year ago. >> saipov allegedly admitted that he was inspired to commit the attack by the isis videos he watched. >> reporter: the criminal complaint says he was inspired by al baghdadi. his cell phone was recovered at the attack site. he waived his miranda rights and told him he chose halloween because he thought more people would be on the street and wanted to inflict maximum damage against civilians.

saipov confessed that he was proud of what he did, even asking them to hang an isis flag in his room. investigators say saipov rented a similar last week to make a practice run. >> some say he was polite, nonconfront aeurbl, even a peacemaker. an acquaintance in ohio described him as nervous, aggressive, but saw no signs of radicalization. he rented a truck at a home depot in new jersey just an hour before. police license plate readers capturing the truck crossing the george washington bridge. roughly 20 minutes later, saipov jumped a curb onto the bike path, mowing down pedestrians and saoeublgists for nearly a mile. they planned to continue down to the brooklyn bridge but stopped

unexpectedly when he crashed into this school bus. officer nash telling reporters that he is no hero. >> although i feel we were just doing our job, like thousands of officers do every day, i understand the importance of yesterday's events and the role we played. >> this as we learn more about the eight people killed. among the victims, five men from argentina celebrating their 30th high school reunion. this video showing the group enjoying a bike ride along the hudson river just before the attack. another tourist also killed 31-year-old visiting from belgium. she leaves behind two young sons. and two american victims. a 23-year-old new york native and 32-year-old darren drake from new milford, new jersey. >> he had everything going for him. everything in the world you can

imagine. >> reporter: authorities will be reaching out to those closest to the attacker to see if they can glean any of the many answers to the many questions that we have. we do know authorities have spoken with his wife who is an aouz beck national. the fbi yesterday also put out a notice they were looking for a young man possibly an associate of the attacker. they did quickly find him, taking him into custody custody here in the new york metropolitan area. they have 30 days with which to indict the attacker. he has shown no remorse so far for this attack. chris and poppy, one more thing on how he was thinking about carrying out this attack. in that criminal complaint he was thinking about hanging isis flags on the front and back of that truck as he barreled down that bike path but decided not to so as not to draw any more attention and presumably try to

wreak more havoc. chris, poppy. >> alex, thank you for the reporting. let's bring in our panel john avlon and gregory and phillip mudd. this is a multipronged approach to attack the judicial system, due process. by the way, let's read what he wrote overnight about the death penalty. nyc terrorist was happy as he asked to hang an isis flag in his hospital room. he killed 8 people, badly injured 12. should get the death penalty. this makes it harder for prosecutors. >> and it is outside the american tradition. after 9/11, george w. bush said we wanted owe osama bin laden dead or alive.

we need to rush an execution. saying the justice system is a laughing stock. it is too slow. it is against our traditions and another best tradition. george w. bush. this is donald trump's hometown where this occurred. it took a full day to reach out to our elected leaders. >> and his first impulse wasn't to comfort the victims and speak to people directly. he played politics right out of the box. i love you, john of lop. but gregory, all of that, snowflake talk. >> oh! >> danger towards the people who do this to us. we want them dead. this process should not help them. it should help us. these are political points for this president. i get why they will draw criticism. it works for him politically, does it not? i get why it is is a legal

challenge. i hear what the prosecutors are saying. you have jury tainting. i get it. buff politically, how does this not help? >> there is no question. let's also remember that we have seen going all the way back to the oklahoma city bombing, you know, a president's response reflects frustration and the danger and the fear of the country in the face of these attacks. the threshold for risk is very, very low for any president who is going to occupy the office. so there is talk about getting tough and talking down. there is not a roman coliseum. and the president is not putting thumbs up or thumbs down. we have to remember some important context. one of the reasons events like this are so incredibly rare is because of what america is because of who we are, not just our culture but what our laws are and how we protect our

citizens. that is why it is so unusual for people to come here and become radicalized. how do we prevent circumstances like this, people who come here and become radicalized on his own. that's what is so scary about this. and on the gun control debate. look at the vegas rampage. the immediate response, particularly republicans is we have to protect the rights of our citizens of those constitutional guarantees. when it comes to immigrants who who perpetrate these crimes here, we throw all of that out and say let's do whatever we can, whether it works or not, to prevent this from happening again. nobody wants to do that. no, it doesn't work. you shouldn't do something that doesn't work. >> phil mudd, through his answer about would you send this guy to guantanamo, ma may work better.

no facts bear that out. look at the zoe haar tsarnaev. you have khalid sheikh mohammed still waiting for a trial. and just look at the big numbers. look at federal terrorism numbers since 2001. 600 convictions. almost none overturned. and eight convictions in guantanamo. three of them overturned on appeal. nothing backs what the president says. but to chris's point, politically helps him. it is anticipate obama wanting to shut down gitmo. he said he would throw the bad dudes in there. >> he wants to look tough. if you want to be tough the, i suggest throwing a fact on the table. the facts are someone who is a counterterrorism practitioner, how many people do we prosecutors, how quickly we prosecute them, how many do we throw in jail, what is the

success rate of prosecutioning. >> right. >> how long they serve. hundreds of people prosecuted, prosecuted relatively quickly in the american system. cheap compared to guantanamo bay. potential life sentence or death penalty in this case. guantanamo bay takes forever. fewer than 20 prosecuted. and it costs an arm and a leg. >> if i'm arguing the other side i say that's on you, the establishment, you take too long. these are the new pedophiles. we hate them. treat them terribly. put them in bad places. we all get the base of it. phil is saying facts matter. you can't say the military communals are more about invoking justice. >> it will be on my watch. i won't be like you guys. >> his promising or projecting a

new future where separation of powers and all the frustration by design don't apply, that's not reality either. we have a system in this country rooted in law, rooted in history, rooted in tradition. he may play to the base but it is our job to point out that facts matter. >> i hear you. here's a fact also, guys. i get it. yes, i'm devil's advocate. it is going all around our society. i have a brown guy with a beard who is a muslim who said he wanted to kill us and he's proud of it. that's the only facts i need to treat this guy like what he is. he's a savage. that's his position. how do you deal with that? >> first of all, let me throw another fact on the table. you look where the president promise said something on twitter and nothing has happened. iran nuclear deal, nothing is really happening. >> he has second line problems about how he gets it done, how

he is going to deliver. >> that's right. >> but it is strong in a country that is screen tpophobic. >> look at the record of months in office. i mentioned the issue of iran. transgenders out of the military, that's not going to happen. repeal and replace right away. that's not going to happen. my point is he's saying i have a good talking point. if you think this guy is going to guantanamo bay, that is not going to happen it. >> was not about military tribunals, it was about putting them away, keeping them off the battle field. it has limited effectiveness as we have seen. ksm is never getting a trial. how do you prevent these from happening? >> strong facts. strong arguments. >> facts first. >> tested here at the table. >> that's right. >> you decide at home. now, more insight into where the

president's head is on this. i'm putting arguments out there what he is saying. he is saying it to reporters. maggie haberman is home recovering from surgery and gets a phone call from the president of the united states. he wants to talk to the "new york times", to maggie specifically, about this. he said i'm not under investigation. as you know, it, the investigation, has nothing to do with us. now that's not true. the special prosecutor is looking at the dismissal of comey. what are those indications? the documents tells you which way he's going. so the president must be under investigation. but what does maggie haberman have to say? cnn political analyst joining us by phone. breaking records for recovering. i couldn't even look at people, let alone talk when i was in the shape you're in. i hope you're doing well. >> thanks, chris. thanks for having me.

just for a little bit of clarity, i have been asked to help out on one thing by my editor. i was not expect to go get a call from him. and then suddenly the phone rang and it was his assistant looking to have a conversation. he clearly, as you know very well, he loves feeling like he can control a narrative. and clearly the story is about how angry he is, true or not, is bothering him. i will say, i think you know this as well, he is one of these people who vents and sort of blows off steam and it can be a pretty messy storm. and then he's fine. then the storm will come back later. my sense after talking to a lot of aides in the white house, that is how he has been dealing with. they knew an indictment was likely coming against manafort. gates was not a surprise.

they tend to go hand in hand. i think george papadopolous surprised them in terms of his guilty plea. and certainly the fact that sam clovis had gone in to be interviewed. just the way it happened caught people off guard. you are dealing with a white house that has been in this surreal, you know, having to go to work every day, knowing the investigation is going on for a while. i think there is a difference between how trump is feeling and how his aides are. he's watching a lot of television and paying very close attention to the television about this. >> let me ask you something. when he talked about the fact that he is not under investigation, did you feel he was putting that on you as a suggestion that he wanted to make that known, make that the case. or do you think he believes he is not under investigation? >> you know, it is is off very hard to tell the difference between whether he believes the

things he is saying that in some kaesz are demonstrably not true. and in this case all evidence points to the fact that it is not true. though federal prosecutors are not able to say that in terms of how they deal with the media. i think he wants people to think he is not and i think he convinced himself he is not to some extent. but as you said before, this is an investigation that touches on him. and we have heard from several people that obstruction of justice is one aspect that is being looked at that points right at the president. >> what was your biggest take away on this? you have amazing access to the president. journalism is better for it. this call had to be a little bit of a surprise. what's your take on what's going on? >> yeah. my take is just that i think that he is trying to manage the one thing he can try to manage in his mind which is how his own words are interpreted. i think he really was upset

about the "washington post" story and "vanity fair" stories that both portrayed him as hrarihra lashing out and in a constant bit of freak-out. it is certainly true that he is mad. i think it is is true that he is frustrated by this. he didn't say this. this is my read. as he heads to this asia trip, stories about him out of control and unable to do anything, just sort of sitting here watching this as a spectator, i think makes him feel helpless. he is about to go on on this very lengthy diplomatic trip. and i think he wants to try to project some aura of strength regardless of what's happening. >> it doesn't sound like he gave you a whole lot of basis to report that he isn't consumed and distracted. >> he definitely is consumed and

distracted. but the difference is whether he's running around yelling. he is sitting around watching a lot of television. absolutely. >> did he talk at all? you mentioned this asia trip. you are spot on about its importance. especially early on. this many countries, this many issues on the table. and he may well meet with vladimir putin. did he talk about that at all? was it all in his focus in terms of how he is getting prepared for it and his level of confidence? >> no. he just referenced that he was excited to go, made some brief reference to china. but there was nothing special. nothing to discern about it. jeff zeleny reported this as well. prepping him has been difficult. prepping him under any circumstance is difficult because he has a low attention span. but i think this has been harder right now. i think most aides think this is a good thing to try to shift his

attention off of current events at home. >> maggie, culling in on convalescence above and beyond the call of duty. speedy recovery to you. i look forward to seeing you on set soon. thank you for the reporting. be well. and a quick point here. we have a blessing on this show. as you know, the president is often watching. i get to speak directly to the president of the united states. he should want to be under investigation. and here's why. i know that comes with an ugly -- >> why, counselor? >> here's why. because what he wants is for special counsel to be able to go to rosenstein. the idea that we will learn what he finds, that is not necessarily true. the duty under the mandate of the creation of this special counsel is just a report to the ag's office. but for him to be able to say we looked at trump 100 different ways from sunday, he is clear of this.

>> then there will be no question. >> i let you look. i helped you look. you found nothing. >> the white house gave you all of these documents. intrepid reporter, maggie. justice must be swift and strong for terrorists in the wake of the attack in new york city. late last night he called for the new york attacker to be executed. that came after he called the u.s. justice system a joke and a laughi laughingstock. let's discuss this and more with angus king. we have a lot to get to. let's begin with the president overnight taking to twitter, seeking to the american people and saying that the attacker in this city should get the death penalty. now, every legal mind you talk to says that just made it harder for the prosecution because it is an easy argument to say that taints the jury pool. big picture, do you have concerns about that? do you have concerns about him weighing in on a criminal

investigation like this 24 hours after. >> you know, i can only second what you have already been told, di saying the jury has been tainted by this. it was really unnecessary. we have the scenario case in boston where indeed the death penalty has been imposed. the whole idea that somehow sending somebody to guantanamo is going to speed the process is actually just the opposite. the federal prosecution system had enormous success, i don't know, 90%, 95% conviction rate and on a timely basis. if the president said i want to accepted this guy to a caribbean island where he will probably never get prosecuted at the cost of about $3 million a year, because that's the reality. if you want a swift prosecution, the criminal justice system in new york is going to do it. >> so the facts bear that out. you only have eight convictions in 15 years in gitmo.

three on appeal. 600 in federal court. those are the facts. if you didn't know those facts, the president knows that now. chris said he reads this or reads the "washington post". but he still makes the argument. is it because it is is politically advantageous for him. obama was going to shut it down and i'm going to fill it with bad dudes. what is he doing then? >> a lot of it is just him. i think it just comes out. i think you're overthinking it in terms of strategy and political strategy. he just comes out with what's on the top of his head. and i think that's the way he feels. i've got to say, he said a lot of things that bother a lot of people. and it bothered me frankly the last eight months. the idea of our criminal justice system being a joke and a laughi laughingstock, it's the fbi, judges, juries, attorneys. that was just corrosive of

understanding and support for the system which is what we are supposed to be fighting for. >> it sounds like, senator, you're saying something is different this time. when i think back to the campaign at the beginning of his presidency, he has been attacking the judiciary, judge curio, the intelligence community for months and months and months. is it different this time what he has said in the last 24 hours? >> i can't explain it. somehow last night, i just think what we're talking about is the constitution. it's not a pesky annoyance. it's who we are, what the flag symboliz symbolizes. whaeur saying is that pesky constitutional rights, we have to get rid of them. it undermines public respect for institutions generally and i think that's what bothers me. >> is it the rhetoric that makes

you nervous and uncomfortable or you have gotten a sense from his language that he actually means it. that he is actually going to follow through. >> he is giving permission for amount of people to say similar things or think similar things. it kind of opens the door. in my view, a president ought to be defending our institutions and talking about imperfections. if there are things in the justice system that we could improve. but that is a far cry from saying our criminal system and judicial system is a laughingstock. it doesn't get us anywhere in terms of the unity to deal with these kinds of problems. >> senator, let's get what consumed you the last few days and colleagues in congress and that is the top attorneys, top dogs on the legal side from

facebook, google, twitter came to the hill the last few days and testified. as you noted, you were upset not to see the ceos taking these hard questions. i want you to listen to your fellow senator, dianne feinstein. >> i don't think you get it. you have a huge problem on your hands. you bear this responsibility. you've created these platforms. and now they are being misused. and you have to be the ones to do something about it, or we will. >> you fix it or we will on all of this russian disinformation campaign,ed the ads, et cetera. do you think the companies will take it seriously, that they are going to fix it, or do you think congress will need to step in in a big way? >> i think they are starting to get it. the fellow from facebook said they have put 10,000 people working on some of this verification. >> they are going to double that

number in the next year. that is a significant commitment. i think they were late to understanding how they were being used and misused. and the important point here is this was a massive, serious and ongoing russian effort to divide our country to undermine our democracy, and of course in 2016, to try to tamper with our elections. and i don't think they fully understood the way they were being used. my sense is they do now understand that. the question is what do we do about it? what can they do about it technically, for example, by having disclaimers on ads and those kinds of things. also, what do we have to do as a citizenry to better understand what it is that is being thrown at us. >> we have to go, but quick answer here, will you be satisfied until mark zuckerberg, sheryl sandberg comes and testifies? >> i think they have to come and

talk. this is policy for them. they have to be here. >> we appreciate it senator king. chris? on the eve of a really high stakes trip to asia, the cloud of russia seems to be distracting the president. in fact, his chief of staff says it is. the president says he isn't is. we'll talk to republican congressman next. woman: we demand a lot from our eyes every day. i should know. i have chronic dry eye caused by reduced tear production due to inflammation. so i use restasis multidose®. it helps me make more of my own tears, with continued use, twice a day, every day. it's also what i prescribe to my patients who have this condition. restasis multidose® helps increase your eyes' natural ability to produce tears, which may be reduced by inflammation due to chronic dry eye. restasis multidose® did not increase tear production in patients using anti-inflammatory eye drops or tear duct plugs.

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president trump telling the "new york times" he is not upset, he is not distracted %-p that he doesn't have anything to worry about because he is not under investigation. nothing that has come out has anything to do with him or his campaign. remember, former campaign chairman manafort and another high-ranking campaign official, gates, they will be in court again today to discuss their bond. once again, reconfirming that

people in this campaign are in trouble. let's bring in republican congressman chris stewart of utah, a member of the house intel committee. always good to have you on the show, congressman. thank you for taking the opportunity. >> good morning, sir. >> so what is your sense of perspective here about what we've learned about the special counsel's probe to this point? do you feel that there's nothing to be concerned about here? >> well, i don't know that there's nothing to be concerned about, especially for those individuals who are under indictment. if they have done what they are accused of doing, if they laundered money, they obviously should be held accountable. i don't know if the president is distracted. i think he is focused on much of the same thing as congress. let's get tax reform done. let's move forward with these very urgent issues. american people are patiently waiting for us to do. i suppose it is a bit of distraction in this sense. it makes it hard to communicate because this is what you and i started talking about the investigation once again.

but we really are concentrating on trying to do the work. >> right. part of the work is figuring out how russia interfered in the election. you care about that, don't you? >> well, absolutely. you and i talked about that. i've been talking about that for a year. there simply aren't any ties at all to this president on russian collusion. even my democratic colleagues would admit that now. they quit talking about the it the last couple months because they realized there are no direct ties. manafort and others have been indicted but things entirely unrelated to the president and the campaign. >> except, look, what is the check on that? the check on that is we don't know what mueller has on manafort and gates. we know there is such a thing called a superseding indictment, right?

you can add to charges. and put up the graphic of the different people who are in the campaign a this should qualify. one is his son-in-law. one is his son. the campaign and trump supporters want to dismiss as a coffee boy. he clearly wasn't a coffee boy and has admitted lied to the fbi about contacts with russians. don't those count as being related to the president as members of his campaign and his family? >> chris, let me say this to you. and i say this as fairly as i can and as sincerely as i can. perhaps there's something that we just haven't seen yet, but i really don't think so. we have been looking at this a long time. the senate has been looking a long time. maybe special counsel has

something we just have no idea about. but, again, i just the don't think so. if true, they are obviously illegal. if true, they were committed by individuals who had ties to the president. but if you're laying awake, waiting for the president to be impeached because of collusion -- >> why make that the bar? who says that's the bar. let me bait it a little bit. if this were hillary clinton who keeps being brought up by defenders of the president here, i wonder if you would feel the same way, congressman, the list of people, including family members, misled congress and others about meeting with russians in the context of russian interference in the election. i wonder if you would feel the same way. yeah, you know what, it's a little murky. i don't think there's anything there. would you have the same disposition? >> remember, that was the original intent of the

investigation, to look at russian interference in the elections. if there was any collusion. so that bar wasn't set by me. it was set by a legal standard saying this is the purpose of this investigation. >> tcollusion is a fancy word. i respect your presence on this show. but it doesn't exist. you're not going to see a collusion charge. that's why i pushed away from that word. but this indictment and the plea deal with papadopolous is filled with the word coordinated. that's what you want to see here. did the campaign allow itself to be susceptible to russian influence? that's meaningful, is it not? >> i agree. i completely agree with you. coordinated, collusion, interference. all elements we are looking at in this. once again, there is no accusations of illegal activity by this president.

let me correct myself. there's all sorts of accusations about that. we have heard thousands the last year. there is no evidence of illegal activity by this president. >> yeah. i just don't know if that's the bar. i think there are a lot of other things you should be concerned about that we have to correct going into the next campaign cycle. let's leave the fact analysis there. there is no reason to go any further now. on the tax side, the president said something very interesting yesterday. he said wouldn't it be great to get rid of this individual mandate in health care, which is its own nice thick bed of weeds that we don't have time to get into today to fund more tax cuts. you and so many others have said on this show and to other media outlets our changes in health care have nothing to do with taxes. this is about fixing them. i have always tested that. i said, no, i think you are trying to fund your tax cuts. is it the truth to put in tax

cuts to this point are much better for me than that household that is making $85,000 a year. >> i didn't hear the president's comment so it is hard for me to respond. >> that's what he said. >> there are some overlaps. there are overlaps between tax policy and health care. you have to fund both of them. but to me, and i think to most members of congress, we look at these as very different challenges. our efforts in health care were because we believed obamacare hurt millions of americans and we could do better. our policy on tax policy is really quite simple. the tax code is too complicated. we want to simplify. >> you don't have to have cuts to similar phi the tax code. >> that brings me to my second point. we believe the american people should keep more of their money. and the third is the most important, economic growth that we are convinced will happen because of this. >> why are you so convinced? >> history shows it and many, many studies show it.

>> history doesn't show it in many studies. you know it's an open question economically. i'm not telling you anything you don't know. this is a political point not an economic point. >> i suppose you can draw different conclusions from different times in history, no doubt. it is is an open question. our argument is, and i believe this, that if we simplify -- allow people to keep more of their money and achieve that economic growth through allowing businesses to become more efficient, to reinvest, that makes a real difference to families. average family of four making $52,000 a year, it means $4,000 a year. not in tax cuts but in economic growth from upward pressure on wages. that's the most important thing we can do. >> it's a play on projections. in either scenario, even though we haven't seen the meat on the bones and that's a fair pushback. i don't know the details. it will be great when you

release them. i'm still going to do better. i'm in the top tax bracket. i'm going to do better than this family. i don't understand why that is. i mean, look, selfishly, i'm okay with it. we're all self interested. you said its was a middleclass tax cut. it is not overweighted to the middleclass and it could be. why not? why include people like me at all if you're going to make it about the middle class? >> two things on that. one, i disagree with you. now, look, it may change when you wh we get to the senate. the plan is not to reduce the highest bracket at all. i argued for that. >> you're giving back on the estate side and all the sides that will be ativdvantageouadva. >> sthrr some benefits there are some benefits. even if we were, why is that an argument against reducing taxes on everyone else? >> because you have to pay for

it. you make people like me pay, which fuels my dislike of politicians, right? you want to get rid of the estate tax. there are other changes. again, we don't know the details yet. this is going to be expensive. a lot of members will push back because you will balloon the deficit again with tax cuts. don't do that. and one of the ways you don't do that is by keeping the rich where they are and. >> i don't think you can design a tax policy. at some point, somewhere along the way, benefits someone who is wealthy. i just don't think you can. i suppose maybe in some world you could. but in the real world it is very, very difficult to do. they pay such an enormous proportion of taxes, it makes it that much harder. >> to whom much is given, much is expected. this is a longer conversation. i promise you this, congressman, when we get the details on what it is, you are welcome on this

show and no one will give you more time to tell why it is the right bill. >> i am going to a meeting at 9:00. we will have the policy then. we will come back and talk about it again. >> whenever you want. thank you for taking the opportunity. be well. poppy. >> they were considering keeping it 39% for people over a million bucks a year. that's exactly what you could do. thank you, chris, for that. so five michigan teenagers accused of throwing rocks from this highway overpass. one of them struck and killed a 32-year-old father riding in a van. the teens in court today. jean casarez following the story. >> reporter: poppy, investigators right now are trying to see if any of the teens actually ever threw something over the overpass before. the fiancee of ken height is just trying to understand. >> he was the love of my life. we had a special kind of something. he was the best were father.

and i wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. now i don't have that choice. >> amy still can't belive 32-year-old ken white, her fiancee and father of their child, won't walk back into her life. he was killed after a rock thrown from an interstate overpass crashed through the windshield of a van he was riding in. ken was in the passenger seat coming home from work. five teens have been charged in his death. >> this is it. this is where it all happened. prosecutors say rocks being thrown over this overpass, hitting cars, one crashing through a passenger side windshield. >> the gaping hole in his chest is about the size of the rock. >> reporter: david lleyton is the elect said prosecuting attorney. he has seen the autopsy photos it. >> was bad. i haven't seen anything this bad

ever. >> reporter: he tells cnn the investigation has shown one of the teens allegedly spoke incriminating words right after the rock went through the windshield. >> they realized something dire had occurred. one of the individuals actually uttered the word dinger. >> he didn't deserve to die like that. >> reporter: it wasn't easy for lleyton to make the decision to charge the teens with second-degree murder. >> my heart hurt when i had to make this decision. when you read the reports, they sound like adults. but when you see them, they're clearly children. >> reporter: even though he doesn't believe they intended to kill, he argues they knew the potential consequences of their >> my client is a kid. he's petrified. >> he says all are normal high school students. >> because everybody is charged

with the same crime people tend to believe they did the exact same thing and i think time will tell that's not true. >> amy says she supports the serious charges and will attend every court hearing in this case. >> all i want is justice, for him to be taken away so fast and so brutally, i feel like it's just wrong. >> defense attorneys will be asking for psychological exams to be given to their clients, these teens. chris, when i spoke with amy, any of us could be amy and any of us could be ken white. we all drive on freeways. >> good point. one husband, three wives and 24 children. the family that inspired the hbo series "big love." they are central to a

documentary we have coming up on hln tomorrow night. south

korea. we tend to think we know everything these days because of the internet, but there are still secrets and one is buried along the border between arizona and utah. there's a community there that you will not believe exists, and it's a secretary of the mormon church. warren jeffs led it and he is behind bars with good reason, but if you think the group is gone, the extreme polygamists, you are wrong. they say jeffs has done damage to the lifestyle they embrace. >> valerie and vicky are more than sister lives, they are twins, and alina and vicky court

joe at the same time and shared their wedding day. >> i really grew to love her. there are jealousies. i have my share. >> a lot of love. wouldn't trade it. >> joe, vicky, valerie and alina, part of the family that inspired the show "big love." they join us now. it's good to see you all again. thank you for being here this morning. >> thanks for having us, chris. >> let's start off with the main subject of this documentary. i want your take on it and i want you to talk to the audience about it. they will say it doesn't exist anymore, that guy is gone and those people are gone. that's not the truth. what do you want people to know about the reality of who they are and what they are about. >> well, the reality is that we have families like ours that

continue to be criminalized and you have people left over, and even though warren jeffs is in jail, the people he hijacked and took over and kept them in fear -- still isolated and in fear and there are still problems, that real fear they deal with and the implications of how warren jeffs ran that community. >> what we see what is wrong about going wrong, the obvious w coercion, and you say a line has to be drawn. any of you can answer the question. >> well, the line has to be drawn simply between what is going on that is harmful and hurtful and a line between good and loving families that are

doing their best to live and support their family, and what has been going on down south down where warren jeff's sect lived, a line needs to be drawn and things need to stop. >> you guys are in a legal pickle. talk to me a little bit about that. plural families, as you call them, whether it's bigamy or polygamy, arguably illegal and for good reason looking at the case law. how do you see it? >> well, i see it that the law has actually caused some of this to happen with warren jeffs and the warren jeffs sect. having a portion of society that is criminalized and marginalized and pushed to the edges of society allowed warren jeffs to come in and play on peoples' fears of criminalization and furthered victimize them, if you can let plural families become part of regular society you can

shine a light on that and people don't have to live in fear of government and doesn't allow a perpetrator like that to continue that abuse in the dark and secret. >> vicky, let's build on that idea. the idea is mare sing two people, the same-sex or not, but it should be two. what do you say to that? >> we are not looking in our personal lives, we are not looking for government sanctions with our marriages, and we are fine with not having a legal marriage certificate. we would just like the freedom to be as consenting adults to live as we choose to, and there are laws that take care of any other injustices or crimes within polygamous or any other family situations where they happen everywhere. >> valerie -- >> i don't think you can say that we just allow consenting

adults between two people, and i think there are all kinds of people that have different arrangements in today's society. to say if you have more than one person you are a criminal or it's inherently bad, that's wrong. i don't think that holds the muster on the way things are today. >> valerie, why is it better to allow this? must be one of the 24 kids that you have wanting to get you, joe. i am sure that thing is always ringing off the hook. what do you want people to know about how you live because they are going to come at it jud judgment judgmentally. what do you want people to know? >> i think the hard part is they are criminalizing adult consensual behavior. for us, b