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this is fareed zakaria back here on "gps." thanks to all the guests who joined me on the show today, and thank you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. good morning, i'm brian stetler and this is "reliable sources," our weekly look at the story behind the story, how the media really works and how the news gets made. this hour ronan farrow will join me live talking about the weinstein effect throughout the industry. this week npr's head of news was forced out and kevin spacey was suspended from "house of cards." plus an all star panel here to react to this week's news in robert mueller's russia investigations. why is rupert murdoch trying to use his media empire to discredit mueller. first, new poll numbers. this is what a white house creditability crises looks like. a new "washington post"/abc poll released just a few hours ago

asked, do you think president trump is honest and trustworthy or not. only 33% said yes, he's honest. 65% said they do not believe he's trustworthy. this would be devastating for any white house, particularly for an administration that has only been on the job for nine months. let's talk through this and all the day's news with kellyanne conway, counselor to president trump. she joins me now from the white house. thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. >> given president trump's historically low approval ratings, what specific steps are you and your colleagues taking to try to repair trump's credibility? >> brian, i think that's a usual hyperbolic opening to one of cnn's segments. the numbers that matter to america is the 1.5 million jobs created on his watch, the 54 record highs in the stock market closes, the consumer confidence level at a 17-year higher, higher than both george w. bush

and president obama, 17-year -- >> what about his credibility? >> that is credibility. >> it is. >> the american people are not giving him credit, according to the polls. >> yes, they are. it depends how you ask the question. you have the voice going through your promos saying cnn, the most trusted name in news, what evidence do you have of that? i've seen polling numbers to the contrary. >> you're talking about cnn instead of president trump? >> i'm happy to talk about president trump. you interrupted me because i was going through what cnn refuses to cover about president trump which is the economic boone on his watch as president. >> the economy is covered every day. >> that's not true. you just want to argue because you say facts first so i'm giving you the facts about the stock market, the 1.5 million jobs created. >> i appreciate that but i asked about president trump's credibility and how the white house is repairing the credibility crises. >> that's what you call it. here's the deal. the credibility crises exists in

the other party now. i just cannot believe the bombshell that donna brazile has launched where she says she was dealing with three, quote, titanic egos, president obama, hillary clinton and debbie wasserman schultz. >> she lied and it was revealed that cnn fired her for giving debate questions to hillary clinton. i'm not here to ask you about donna brazile. >> that's very unkind to donna brazile. she saw what we saw which is a lack of enthusiasm for hillary clinton. she was worried, rightfully so, that the polls were wrong, including cnn's polling. i know you fired your polster since. >> i'm here to ask about president trump, not hillary clinton. do your internal polls deal with historically low approval ratings? >> i'm telling you about the numbers that matter to americans. >> the approval ratings are shockingly low. it's a problem not just for you and me but for the nation that this president is not trusted by the american people. >> that's wrong. you know what's a problem for this nation, that you refuse --

cnn used to be a place where people can tune in and get the news all day long. now they get spin and people's opinions. cnn should own it. why not say it's in our commercial interest at cnn to be anti-trump. we're profitable if we're against the president, most of our viewers are against the president. just own it. don't you think that would be more profitable for cnn? >> i guess you just want everybody to be like fox news, state-run media. >> stop being jealous of fox news, brian, and their ratings. it would help if you drop the jealousy a little bit about fox news. the fact is that we need a media that covers the facts. if consumer confidence is at a 17-year high, that's relevant to the forgotten man or woman that donna brazile admits was being ignored. >> it's like a doctor walks in and says you have cancer and it's spreading throughout your body but the good news is your legs and feet still work. it's great that i can walk but i want to treat the cancer,

kellyanne, and that's why i'm asking about his his totoric ca low approval ratings. >> i'm not going to buy into that analogy because many people are suffering from cancer. i want to tell you something about the president. he's on an historic trip to asia, the country is watching and they get the news directly from him. i know there's a lot of hand wringing in the mainstream media that the country doesn't need you to spin and filter what the president just said. they read his tweet when you read his tweet. they don't need you to tell -- they don't need you to tell them what the president just says. he's given a lot of press availability. every time he's taking off from the south lawn now practically he's talking to the press. i've been in the room several times last week when the president is answering questions to a live poll spray that have nothing to do with why they were there like the cabinet meetings, ways and means meeting the other day. there are many different actions by this president where he is very full and forthcoming and

answering these questions. i don't think you can find a more transparent, more forthcoming president in recent times that is engaging with the media and usually spontaneously. isn't that refreshing? >> i think it's loaudable that he's taking questions from the press. you know it's disturbing having a president trying to meddle in the department of justice. have you counselled him to stop doing that? >> look at the full quote. he said i'd like the justice department to run itself. that means he's not interfering and meddling. he has expressed consternation publicly for a very long time. the fact that the department of justice and the fbi don't seem interested in both sides of the so-called collusion coin. >> is he going to replace jeff sessions? >> no. that's not what he's saying at all. >> he's disappointed. he wants them to do it differently.

>> you want me to go on tape saying he will never replace x or so and so will be here all 8 years. i'm not going to do that because it's silly. you guys always want to know who's up and who's down and the american people care that the stock market is up and unemployment is down. to this point we've got multiple investigations through mr. mueller, through congressional senate committees and cnn itself has been so hot on russia, russia, russia, on the dossier. cnn's been obsessed with this dossier over a year now and now that we know the dnc and clinton campaign paid the same firm for said dossier which is completely unverified, company canwe can't excited. >> that's misinformation that you're spreading on my program and i don't appreciate it. much of the dossier -- you said the entire dossier is unverified. >> it has not been verified. but the important -- >> the dossier has been verified and when you say it's unverified, you mislead the american people. carter page confirmed another part of the dossier friday. >> don't start with that. you know that entire dossier has

not been verified and yet the interest in covering -- >> parts of it have not been verified. parts have been verified. >> are you comfortable with that? by the way, we don't care about the dossier because let me tell you something. let's look at all sides of the coin. tell me this, why, if president obama and apparently according to donna brazile now attorney general holder, national security adviser susan rice, they all knew about -- they were all told about possible russian meddling. why didn't they tell you at the campaign? they knew last summer. >> i agree, there should have been more. you're right about that. >> should that be part of the investigation? so if we're going to look forward in our democracy, unimpeded, ininterfered democracy which i know you and i both agree with, why wouldn't we look at that? why weren't we -- >> thankfully he hasn't been leaking -- >> i want to say something else. as the campaign manager for the winning part of the campaign, i never a single time even thought

about what to do -- how to deal with russians to win. hillary clinton, as donna brazile just pointed out, i agree with her completely. she was a walking, talking treasure trove of how to beat hillary clinton. we never needed to look further than her. as donna points out, there was a feeling of inevitability and smugness over in brooklyn that they didn't have to campaign on the issues, they didn't have to campaign hard. she didn't see the enthusiasm for hillary clinton. >> i think viewers see what you're doing, pivoting. when i say russia, you say clinton. it's part of the strategy. >> sorry. i'd be happy to never talk about the 2016 election again. you know why? we want it -- >> let's agree not to talk about it during this interview. >> -- hold on. the reason that we're still talking about it is because of the dnc, because hillary clinton has done a book tour that you're considering nonfiction, nonfiction. they're still talking about the 2016 campaign. it turns out -- >> you love to jab, jab, beat on

hillary clinton. it's boring. >> no! >> it's outdated. it's history. >> she is incredibly boring. >> let's talk about what's happening in the building behind you. i need to ask you about the justice department. you say the president is not interfering with the justice department. there's serious concerns that he is. for example, you me the media merger is the at&t time warner deal. time warner owns cnn. this week there was a sense the deal was about to be approved until this headline in the would you tell journ-- "wall street journal." has trump had any government in the review of this deal? >> you know better than to go ahead and throw that poison out to your viewers which are heavily democratic and anti-trump because it's a business model you should own. at the same time, the department of justice and the different departments within the department of justice who look at merger deals will do their work. we're not going to interfere with that here. >> president trump has not had any conversations -- >> i understand why your

colleagues are worried about another merger but i don't want to spend the white house's time with you brian talking about something that affects you and your employees. the department of justice is a very large place. let them do their job. >> independently, i agree. they should be independent. >> well of course, the department of justice is department. >> when the president's complaining every day about the justice department, people cannot trust that he's leaving the department alone. you see what i mean? >> that's not true. no, no, no. he's -- play the full clip if you want to be honest and completely forthright. facts first, brian. show the whole clip of the president saying i want the department of justice to run itself. that's noninterference, okay? >> president trump said before election day that he vowed to block the at&t deal. that's why this is significant. does he still oppose the at&t deal? >> i haven't discussed that with him lately because it's not important to what we're doing here. he's in the middle -- at the beginning of an historic asia

trip. >> but these deals are important. he's been bashing the justice department. what about the sinclair tribune deal. they have a conservative bent. does he oppose that deal? >> we don't discuss that here. those are deals in the private sector that the department of justice will or will not look at. that's up to them. >> i'm looking for more transparency on a variety of topics. >> no, you're looking for conversations that don't take place. >> i think the president can regain his creditability by being more transparent. on his tax returns, for example, the deadline for him to file was october 18th. du do you know if he has filed? >> do you know what it might look like in the future? a postcard. >> that's a great pivot and i respect it but why will he not release this year's tax return? >> americans want to know about the tax cuts. you know that that affects them. they're wait ting for trillionsf dollars that are packed overseas legally to come back.

they want those jobs back here. it's how he won and he's making good on it. you don't want to cover that. you want this whole year to basically be -- if cnn looked back at this year you should be dispatching from the kremlin, not capitol hill. you've been obsessed with one major issue. 54 stock market highs and in all 54 days, you've covered russia. >> if you would like to join cnn as a producer, i'm sure we can find an opening. if you would like to be involved in editorial decisions. >> i had an offer from cnn but i came inside instead. they plukd me out of the wilderness 20 years ago. i'll always be grateful for that but i don't understand why -- >> i asked why the president won't release his tax return and you're talking about cnn. >> you're still talking about the 2016 election. you sound like hillary clinton. >> i'm asking about two weeks wag the deadline for him to return his federal tax return. i think it's embarrassing the press didn't ask more about this last month. the deadline was october 18th and we haven't seen a tax return yell.

>> cnn is in the front row of the press briefings. they choose what to ask. they've been on the south lawn shouting questions. i'm right there. >> let me ask you one more about transparency. president obama underwent physicals in 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016. will president trump see the white house doctor and will he release the results of his physicals? >> i don't ask the president about private matters about his health or -- >> it's not a private matter. all presidents disclose their medical records and their physicals when they're in the white house. >> i'm not going to comment on that today. i will just say that as president obama was doing that, he was lying to the american people about keeping their doctor and their plan. again, that's what animates americans, those 20 million americans that don't have health care. >> i'm against liars, obviously. but president trump has a track record of misinformation. >> don't call him a liar, brian. >> i didn't. i said i'm against liars. president trump has a track record of misinforming the

public. do you advise him as counsellor to the president not to spread misinformation? >> the president communicates directly through the people all day long through his twitter feed, his availability to the press. and that you can choose -- you cherry pick. you know what people will be happy? they'll be happy that broad com came to the white house and announced that it will be creating jobs in this country. >> that's true. >> you don't get out there and talk to the people like we do, respectfully. hillary clinton didn't respectfully. i didn't see you or her in wisconsin but the fact is this -- >> my family is from wisconsin, i love wisconsin. i'd love to go with you to wisconsin. >> let's do it. >> you can't say, brian, you don't talk to the people. >> you didn't last year. you were doing national polls. you missed the anxiety geist. my point is go and talk to whoever gets the jobs from broad com and ask them what their tax returns are going to look like, ask them if broad com is a

fortune this or a fortune that. they're going to be happy to have a job and you're not connecting that. i think a lack of transparency is not telling the american people all the good that's happening for them. if people just want to hear the negative, negative, negative, they'll continue to tune in. but not everybody's tuning in, brian. you know, your ratings are not as high as other networks, cable stations, because people -- >> then why are you here, kellyanne? if you're going to take a shot at me, why are you here? >> no, i'm more than happy -- listen, i'm always happy and you've got people probably on twitter now, you'll read it, i'll go home and watch the philadelphia eagles win and take my kids to something fun today but you'll go on twitter the rest of the day as you're holding your precious baby daughter and see what people said and realize how anti-trump the cnn viewers are now. go ahead and give them something different to look at. >> they're going to say, brian, you shouldn't have that woman on cnn. >> they don't realize how often we're invited to be on cnn.

>> that's right. i ask for you every week. i try to book you every week and i'm grateful that you're here. >> i'm happy to come on more frequently. i'll tell you that right here and right now. but look, can't we just make a deal of some sort that we can actually get more -- if you want facts first, there are facts out there that you're not telling the american people. i just think -- >> that's just not true. >> look, you're a 24/7 news outlet. you have a lot of people in your digital platform. you have international audiences. don't you want them to hear that the stock market is at an all-time high. >> they did on friday. >> just in passing. it's never quite -- look, sarah's briefings, most of what everybody covers is the q&a. the rich part of those briefings is at the beginning when she is outlining the facts of what just happened that day. >> she read a conservative chain e-mail from the podium. it was embarrassing. >> the national security -- i don't know what you're talking about there but -- >> she read a chain e-mail about tax returns the other day,

remember on monday? >> she is listing out -- and i do find it curious and i think people should take note of what you're not asking me today. you're not asking me a thing about, as the winning campaign manager you're not asking me a thing about russia, about what we were doing. you want to talk about cnn polling. the day that i got there as campaign manager, we were down double digits according to cnn polling. even if it was off a few points, we know with were losing. the fact is i never once considered, never once considered not looking at michigan and looking at moscow instead. i don't know what other people were doing earlier in the campaign but i can tell you just as the indictments last week, these indictments last week had nothing to do with the campaign, nothing to do with russia collusion. >> you've brought us back to the election again. you're talking about hillary clinton again. >> no. you're talking about russia collusion which has to do with the campaign. you're not talking about it as

we're goff earning. >> the way russia attacked us last year was the biggest story. russia continues to attack us today. they're going to attack us in the mid-terms, and i don't see your boss doing enough to protect us. >> excuse me, we have a lot going on with respect to cyber security in this administration. every single day something is being done in that space. hold on, you can't have it both ways, brian. you can't on your network constantly talk about russia, russia, russia, which has everything to do with the 2016 campaign and then the minute i touch the soft thunder belly of this nonsense, you accuse me of wanting to talk about the campaign. i work here, hillary clinton doesn't. this man is governing, doing things for the american people. he's trying to get those 28 million americans who were left in the cold without health care reform. he's trying to get a middle class tax cut. he wants to reduce the corporate tax rate. >> he hasn't yet and that's why his approval ratings are stuck in the mud. >> listen, his approval ratings don't matter as much as the numbers. and i say this when they're up

and when they're done. i've been around a very long time. i'm an old woman. i talk about approval ratings on this network and others for decades and they're not as parnt -- if consumers feel confident and they're out there spending their money, if job creators feel like they can attract and retain the american workfor workforce, bring that wealth and american jobs home -- i've never seen washington so organized -- >> the only thing we disagree on is the press doesn't cover it. i'm sitting by the cnn money room, dozens of reporters cover it every day. >> you know, i'm just telling you, just own it. just own it at cnn. you're a very prominent person there. just say, you know, we're doing better in the ratings, we're getting better at revenues because we're one of the more anti-trump than down the line. just own it. i think it's okay to do that. >> we're not anti-trump, we're pro truth, pro honesty, pro decency, and this is a tough moment in american history for people that support facts and decency. >> excuse me, we've had many

tough times in american history. >> sure. >> but you know, benghazi didn't happen because of a tape. you covered that. people could keep their plan. you want to talk about facts. the fact is, brian, i appreciate being on. we appreciate the platform. >> thank you. >> and i'm always willing to do that when i'm available. thank you. >> hey, we're both rooting for the eagles today at least, that's what we have in common. >> 8-1 coming up. >> see you soon. thank you for being here. >> take care. when we come back, a perfect panel to dissect all of this and the latest on the robert mueller russia investigation. we'll be right back.

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we just can't underscore enough how historically low this is. let's talk about that and the rest of the week's news with eliana johnson from politico and earl lewis for spectrum news here in new york an cnn political commentator. you were making the point that kellyanne conway is an accomplished polster. >> yes. >> she's aware of how disturbingly low these numbers are for her boss. i respect that she doesn't necessarily want to discuss that but i think to myself, the biggest story involving the trump presidency right now is his disapproval from the american public. >> absolutely -- >> we have to keep coming back to it even if it feels repetitive. >> there are important political implications to that. that's not to discount what she was trying to say about the economy doing well and that's going to count in the president's favor. okay, fine, even with that great economic performance in recent weeks, he's performing so badly that she has a polster knows very well that it's the kind of thing that turns donors off, it's the kind of thing that

invites challengers, emboldens possible challengers to the president, not just on capitol hill with legislation and doing the white house's bidding but a challenge for the president in re-election is not out of the question when the numbers are just that bad. then you've got the generic poll that puts a generic -- for the outcome in congress next year, puts the democrats ten points over the republicans. she knows that that is trouble and it's got to get turned around. it's very high in their inbox politically speaking, and i don't think she really wanted to talk about it this morning because i don't know if they have a plan for. >> we've seen all these numbers from a number of major networks. some of them timed to the election day anniversary which is coming up on wednesday. eliana, one number that stood out to me from the abc/"washington post" poll is that 91% of trump voters say they would vote for him again. even though we see a lot of troubling numbers in the

presidetrump presidency, he still retains his base. >> i'm not sure what the political implication of those historically low approval numbers are. the election of 2016 was so bizarre. it was not a popularity contest. voters disapproved both of hillary clinton and of donald trump so i'm not sure how those approval numbers are going to impact the 2018 election because the economy is performing well, as kellyanne conway said, and so i'm really interested to see how the performance of the economy will counter balance his approval numbers and as you said, earl mentioned the object -- possibility of a primary challenge to trump. i think that's a remote prospect, the number that you mentioned that 91% of primary voters would vote for trump again. seems to me that he has a pretty strong grip on the party. when you see people like jeff flake and bob corker who have been outspoken critics of his

retiring and the primaries, the alabama senate primary, essentially you had two candidates trying to prove they're trump bona fide. so it does seem to me like he has rebranded the party pretty successfully in his own image. i'd be surprised to see a primary challenge to him but again, i think we're in pretty untested territory and that's why i don't think even though historically low approval ratings typically would be meaningful, i'm not really sure necessarily that we can carry past lessons forward in this case. >> i'm looking forward to this tuesday night. it's another election night in america, live coverage on all the cable areas in virginia and other states. please stick around. a quick break here and then the rupert murdoch factor, the fox factor, how pro trump media has been trying to discredit robert mueller. what powers the digital world. communication.

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call, visit, or go to xfinitymobile.com. welcome back to "reliable sources." i'm brian stetler. we see right wing media rallying around the president. it looks a lot like rupert murdoch and the trump administration have embraced the same strategy, to cast doubts about robert mueller's investigation. when in doubt, pivot to hillary clinton's alleged misdeeds instead. that's so much more fun to talk about. murdoch's "wall street journal" recently ran an editorial urging mueller to step down and murdoch's fox news has gladly amplified that message. >> there's no way the american people can trust robert mueller to investigate anything russian related. >> i agree with "the wall street journal."

he should resign. >> robert mueller must be fired immediately. >> he should resign immediately tonight. >> it's kind of funny, right? obviously mueller's not going to take sean hannity's advice. but some republicans are listening. on friday three house republicans moved to pressure mueller to resign in a formal letter. back with me now, elan ya johnson of politico and also joining me, endeerra -- i don't want to mess up your name. i apologize. i saw you a week ago and i already messed it up. you're a columnist is for the "boston globe." david, you've spent a lot of time reporting on the murdoch/trump alliance. how often are they in touch? how often do they communicate? >> i'd say it's pretty frequent.

but they don't have to. rupert murdoch has achieved what donald trump who is by no means his favorite candidate here, he's achieved what he's always wanted in this country, the same as in his native australia and britain, a direct line to the top person in government. the one he's going to stick with as long as he can. >> does this mean murdoch is a destructive man in american politics? if he's bowlilstering up presid trump despite these scandals and controversies? >> i think he's discovered that his business model with fox news is really effective to appeal to people who are against the status quo in this case who support donald trump. i'm not necessarily sure that he's going to stick with this the whole way along. i think for him, as you mentioned, it's more of a business strategy than it is anything else because as david said, trump was not his number one candidate. but it's fascinating to see people like sean hannity urging

mueller to step down and the president repeating back talking points from fox and by the way obviously "the new york post" and "the wall street journal" which are owned by rupert murdoch. >> the post has published pieces disparaging mueller which of course opinion columnists can say whatever they want but you start to wonder if it's more than a series of accidents. how do you view this? >> i think it's exactly right to say that this is a business strategy for murdoch. fox news is enormously financially successful, and you entities taking a slightly - different line. "the wall street journal" was critical of mueller, it has been along the line but it's taking a different tact. it's critical of special counsel investigations and the special counsel position, whether it's investigating republicans or democrats. it's kind of taken an

intellectual fiphilosophical ta. this is all business for rupert murdoch and he's always wanted to have a close personal relationship with the president of the united states and he's found that he's been able to do that with donald trump. >> david? >> it strikes me that this is a business proposition on two levels. it's a business proposition because the trump diehards are probably part of the core of the fox news audience. fox is worried about being outflafrjed by breitbart, s sinclair and others because there's a lot of matters in front of the federal government right now. murdoch has long wanted to own even more newspapers and tv stations. the fcc led by a frepdly chairman who he appointed has swept away so-called cross ownership restrictions. at&t and time warner wants to take over cnn and murdoch is urging the idea of roadblocks to be put up. sinclair is trying to build a national empire from local

stations. it's got potential of adding tribune media stations. that's something that's before federal regulators in front of the doj right now. if he has a close friend in the white house, however flawed, he's going to try to stick by him and you're seeing the consequences of doing that even when doing something so drastic as calling for the pressure to be put for the firing of a special prosecutor. >> one more point on this and then we can put on the screen our chart of interviews that president trump has done with fox news and then with other outlets. 19, actually 20 interviews with fox news since inauguration day, most recently with new host laura ingraham. does politico try to pursue interviews with trump as well and doesn't have luck the way fox does? >> that's exactly right. i think every mainstream media outlet tries to sit down with the president and i think the fact that fox has had such luck is not necessarily murdoch driven but the fact that it's a very friendly network.

and the president is not the type of guy who's working the phones and talking to lawmakers at night. he's a media guy. he's a new york media guy and at night he's talking to sean hannity, tucker carlson, these are people he feels -- >> is that true, they talk on the phone? >> absolutely, yeah. these are people he really feels comfortable with. so when he agrees to interviews, those are the guys he wants to sit down with, suffice it to say the president and i don't go way back the way he does with some of these other guys. >> thank you so much for being here. david, please stick around. up next, ronan farrow working on a new story about harvey weinstein's alleged wrongdoing. he'll join me live in just a moment. cident i got in with the pole, and i had to make a claim and all that? is that whole thing still dragging on? no, i took some pics with the app and... filed a claim, but... you know how they send you money to cover repairs and... they took forever to pay you, right? no, i got paid right away, but... at the very end of it all, my agent... wouldn't even call you back, right? no, she called to see if i was happy. but if i wasn't happy with my claim experience for any reason, they'd give me my money back,

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the value of capital is to create, not just wealth, but things that matter. morgan stanley new this weekend, media believes they have enough evidence to arrest harvey weinstein. police investigations continue in new york and l.a. exactly one month since the first "new york

times" story about weinstein's harassment. since then of course more and more powerful men have been held to account. they've been accused of some kind of harassing or assaulting behavior. we've seen firings and resignations left and right. so what is next? or maybe i should say who is next? back with me now, endeer ra of the "boston globe" and joining us at the table, ronan farrow who investigating weinstein for ten months and published this chilling new yorker story about alleged assaults and rapes. ronan, thanks for being here. >> good to be here. >> i know wryou're working on another piece. can you tell us about it? >> one of the things this story has illustrated is you've got to be really careful with this reporting. part of that is not getting ahead of anything that hasn't been vetted, fact checked and put to print. look, there's certainly more to say with the reasons why this stayed quiet as long as it did and i think some of the answers to that question will come out in this reporting. >> are there journalists or

media outlets that are complicit? >> i'm not going to get into the details on it. i get that question a lot. sincere sincerely, we are in this moment where women are coming forward one after another in industry after industry telling the hardest stories of a lifetime, and i do think that it's important to keep the focus on them. >> did you forecast this at all? did you think there would be this domino effect after weinstein story hit? >> no one could have fathomed the size of this. this is a seismic change in culture in real time. and it opened up a vain that was right there under the surface, incredibly painful and we're seeing the results of that. i certainly knew as a journalist, seeing the elements of this, hearing the audio of him admitting to one of these incidents early on in the reporting that this was a very significant, important story and to not run this story would be a dereliction of my ethical duties. >> nbc who were working for did not run the story. have they apologized to you for burying this story? >> we're at a moment where the

women are coming forward and i don't want to become the story. there may be more to say later. certainly it's a question that media organizations do right by stories like this but i don't want to get into private communications like that. >> let's talk more broadly about the coverage of this weinstein effect. i hate using his name, giving his name the effect here, but as a result of the harvey weinstein stories we've seen dozens of other men accused. your view on this as a journalism ethics expert, what are journalists getting right and getting wrong while covering these accounts of harassment by prominent men in many industries? >> look, as ronan said and i applaud his reporting and that of the "new york times" that led to all of these allegations coming out about harvey weinstein and then this avalanche effect which we really didn't predict, this is happening in industries all over. every industry you can think of has sexual harassment. the important thing is we're the media. if we're holding other people accountable in other industries, we need to make sure that our

own house is in order and we need to be honest and transparent about what's happening in our own industry as well. so that's why i think it's really important and i want to shoutout to the work that david has done because writing about your own news organization is a real sign of credibility and accountability. if you can write about your own editor-in-chief being brought down for harassment allegations and asking questions about why these were not investigated earlier or taken as seriously as they could have been, that's really important. i think one thing -- >> let me actually -- can i explain that to our viewers real quick. >> please. >> to explain the npr context, one of the specific harassment scandals this week was involving michael arast kass, the former head of news at npr. he has on "reliable sources" almost a dozen times in the past couple of years. on wednesday, he resigned under pressure after the "washington post" detailed harassment allegations in his past. i want to share with the viewers

what happened after that. i heard from a woman who watched him on this program a couple of months ago who saw him, was impressed by his standing up for journalism, followed me on twitter, and as a result there was a conversation, there was a dinner. she alleged harassment by him and shared that with me the other day. it was very painful to hear that, and david, you can against a leader in the journalism profession but more than half a dozen women come forward alleging your former boss is behaving this way. he's apologizing for this. what was it like for you to have to cover it inside your own house? >> it's obviously a disappointment. initially when news broke on tuesday, i believe, the "washington post" the two women had come forward with complaints that were almost too decades old, in a sense, you say that's disappointing. it seems distant. i had known something else.

i previously reported on an earlier zins a complaint had been filed in october of 2015. i had not reported that publicly. the incident, even by the complaints account was relatively minor in thinking at that time. i was not able to find any pattern. i was not able to find any pattern in previous behavior. i didn't know of the "new york times" incidents. when the stuff came forward of the "washington post" it was two halves of a cookie came together. in recent days i have spoken to nine women. some at npr from an reporter in her 20s to a producer in her 50s. each with instances that are not as severe as what ronan has been reporting on. nonetheless add up to an insidious pattern. using his position in journalism to try to get proximity to women who might be susceptible to his appeals. >> npr allowed you to cover it fully on-air? >> npr, we have a pretty firm

protocol i work with a couple of editors who have nothing to do with the matter. it's a moment you have a great team for the news room. we try hard journalistically to live our values. >> david, ronan, thank you for being here. check out the reporting on npr.org. a big blow to local news coverage in some of the country's largest cities. with . that's huge. that's right. t-mobile's got your netflix subscription covered... ...when you get a family plan with two or more lines. really? that's incredible. so go ahead and watch however you want. you're messing with me, right? all at no extra charge. this is awesome! another reason why t-mobile is america's best unlimited network. mic drop.

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>> on monday reporters said to rally in new york in support of independent journalism. a few days after the owners of the sites abruptly decided to shut down the sites. 115 people are without jobs in new york, d.c., chicago, l.a., and san francisco. it's a particularly painful example of an ongoing worsening problem. cutbacks to local news coverage.

both in big cities and in small towns all across america. back with me now earl lewis. you talked about it on your network over the weekend. your message being that viewers, readers have to take a responsibility here. have a stake in keeping news rooms alive. >> that's right. when your local public radio or station is asking for a donation. it's not a joke. it's to really ensure that we've got something what we call an eco system. some version of robust competitive news environment in which we can hold the powerful accountable. it's tremendously important. and, you know, it's very easy to miss the point that just because your daily newspaper continues to come out, it's thinner. it's smaller. there's fewer reporters. they're not able to provide the kind of coverage that we did in the past. as long as that continues, the people in power will get away with murder. the corporate leaders, the political leaders, especially, corruption goes unchecked or

unnoticed. there are a lot of bad consequences. it's almost imperceptible. >> the stories that aren't told that you don't know about. >> exactly right. and, frankly, it's the outrages that are not attempted. because they know there's going to be somebody there at the county commission recording what they say and comparing it to what they promised last year. >> interesting. >> as long as that sense of impunity is there, we're going to have huge, huge problems. and it's not going away. this is a problem that people have tried to wish away. they tried to sort of cut their way out of it by slicing to the bone. people thought there would be technological solutions. none panned out so far. >> the declines started about 10 years ago. we can see it on a trajectory and it's been downhill since. this week's cutbacks, the sudden closure of the sites in new york was a stand out example. because rig ets said he did it because he couldn't make the business work. the staff feels because they just unionized a week earlier. >> a week earlier. >> what do you make of that?

>> the reality, if you threaten to, and then actually act on a threat to fire people just because they unionize. you're in violation of federal law. that's a problem. what you can do, ironically, is shut down the entire business unit. that's what he chose to do. and in that case, something similar happened with walmart. a group of butchers unionized. rather than try to handle that or live with it, or god forbid pay everybody at the level. they took the butchers out of walmart. it's a strategy. there's an ugly union busting twist to this. it deals whether or not we want journalists providing vital information to be paid a fair and living wage. you have that twist on the underlying problem but the reality is, none of this would be as fraught of an issue if we can figure out a way to sort of make local news viable as a business model. >> right.

erro lshl e errol, thank you. join us on reliablesources.com. you can sign up now for the news letter. we'll sent it out every night with the day's media news. see you back next week. stay tuned now "state of the union" with jay tapper is coming up now. high stakes trip. >> we have a problem with north korea. if we don't solve it, it's not going to be very pleasant for them. >> will kim jong-un test trump by testing another missile? plus, investigation intensifies. a former trump campaign advisor now admits he met with a top russian official as the president says he doesn't remember being pitched on a sit down with putin. >> i don't remember much about that meeting. it was a very unimportant meeting.