employees. thanks for joining us. i'm christine romans. >> "new day" starts right now. alice s . >>. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> welcome to our viewers in united states and around the world. this is "new day," it is tuesday, november 7, 6:00 here in washington. chris is in new york. and we begin with breaking news, president trump calling on north korea to quote come to the table and make a deal. president trump toning down his more aggressive rhetoric at a press conference. mr. trump vowing to use military force against north korea is needed but stopping short of saying whether he wants direct diplomatic talks with pyongyang. the president also facing more questions about the texas church massacre. he claims that extreme vetting for gun ownership would not have prevented this attack. instead he insists hundreds more

might be dead if a good smar tan had not also had a gun. >> here's what we know now about this man. the air force is investigating why it failed to report a court-martial conviction to a national database. that database is meant to prevent those convicted of domestic violence from owning a gun. >> and it's election day here in the u.s. could that tight virginia race be a preview for next year's mid term elections? let's begin with jeff seleny, traveling with president trump in seoul, south korea. jeff? >> reporter: chris, good morning. president trump said it's time to act with great determination toward north decreea. in a press conference he gave with the south korean president, one thing was missing.

it was the bellicose name calling that he has been engaged in much of the summer. he left the door open to direct talks of diplomacy. president trump called military force a last resort in confronting north korea. but said it could still be a necessary one if kim jong-un won't back away from his nuclear ambitions. >> we have a nuclear submarine also positioned. we have many things happening that we hope, we hope -- in fact, i'll go a step further, we hope to god we never have to use. >> reporter: visiting the korean peninsula for the first time today, standing in seoul, only 35 miles from the north korean border, the president said sanctions appear to be starting to work. he would not say whether he supported direct diplomatic talks, which he blasted only weeks ago as a waste of time. >> we like to play our cards a little close to the vest. yes, i think we're making progress. >> he called on leaders in the

world, asking them to stand up to kim jong-un. >> he is threatening millions and millions of lives so needlessly. north korea is a worldwide threat that requires worldwide action. >> standing side by side with south korean president moon, mr. trump took a far-more measured tone, stopping well short again today of belittling kim jong-un, as he has repeatedly done in recent weeks in the u.s. >> rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself. they will be met with fire and fury, like the world has never seen. >> reporter: instead the president made a show of force as he visited camp humphreys where thousands of american troops are based. at a briefing with u.s. and south korean military commanders, the president expressing optimism that the nuclear standoff could peacefully be resolved. >> ultimately it will work out.

it always works out. it has to work out. >> reporter: he has been critical of president moon, once saying south decrey's appeasement with north korea would not work. >> thank you so much for that beautiful ceremony. >> reporter: president trump once again facing questions about the church massacre in texas. the president was asked if increased vetting for gun purchases in the u.s. would not have stopped the carnage. >> you're bringing up a situation that probably shouldn't be discuss toochd right now. if you did what you're suggesting, there would have been no difference three days ago. and you might not have had that very brave person who happened to have a gun or rifle in his truck go out and shoot him and hit him and neutralize him. if he didn't have a gun, instead of having 26 dead, you would have had hundreds more dead.

>> and back here in seoul the president will be addressing the national assembly before leaving seoul for china. he will be putting more historical context on his view of north korea, again calling for the world to help confront the rising threat. and, chris, interesting, this week, before the week ends, the president will have a meeting with the president of chien and the president of russia. north korea, among other things, will be first and foremost on that agenda. >> jeff zeleny, thank you very much for the reporting from seoul, south korea. north korea closely following president trump's words, watching what he's going to say tonight when he addresses south korea's national assembly. will ripley is live in pyongyang, north korea. cnn, the only american network there. will has visited that isolated country more than a dozen times. this time is special, will. they're listening for a message and we already have indications that the president may throw

them a little bit of a curveball. >> yes, because the administration has been hinting for a while now that they're going to announce whether to add north korea back to the list of state sponsors of terrorism, a list they were taken off almost ten years ago when there were discussions back then about north korea's nuclear program. we know how that's turned out. they have a growing nuclear arsenal and threatened more nuclear tests. when is it going to happen? it's pretty much inevitable that they'll test their nuclear program. will they do it while president trump is here in the region? obviously encouraging that the president hasn't said anything in south korea to exacerbate the situation. here in pyongyang, they feel that the president and the administration has said enough. diplomacy has broken down and joint naval exercises and in the coming days even larger drills, including three u.s. strike

carriers will get under way. these are not necessarily rash acts where they're sitting by the television waiting for the president to say the right word. regime survival, not going to do anything that would intentionally trigger a war with the united states. although that's still a great danger, many people in the region concerned about that. chris, alisyn? >> will, thank you very much. it's great to have you there. stay with us, if you would. we want to bring in cnn political analyst david gregory and david sanger. nice to have you here. david gregory, what do you make of the shift from the talk of rocket man that, kind of rhetoric to now i hope they'll come to the table? >> have you to consider the audience for president trump right now. he's in the region where showing up in form is often more important in these meetings and the true substance. there is a diplomatic track going on. he is very scripted over there, something we don't often see

certainly when he's back home. he has been very scripted. i imagine the bilateral meetings he's having are rather scripted as well. a lot of things are going on at once. what would be included in that is as much of a show of force as possible to the north on the part of the united states, working with allies in the region. all the talk about japan getting more american hardware and weaponry. south korea and the united states doing joint exercises, meeting with china, an effort to put more economic pressure on. all of that happening to perhaps give north korea an out, some kind of an out, where everyone could pull back from how far things have gone. >> david sanger, tonight is the big speech. what does the president have to achieve tonight for it to be defined as a success? >> well, i think two things, chris. the first is, remember, that the united states and south korea have not been on the same page on north korea. president moon, who just came into office a few months ago,

has made it clear he would never approve or allow a preemptive strike against the north. and that, in some ways, under cuts the president's strategy. all the fiery rhetoric you heard before on the tape and that david just referred to is all about convincing the north that if they don't actually find a way to stop the testing and then begin to dismantle the nuclear program, there could be military action. and the south koreans have said we'll never permit it. so, what he has to do in the speech tonight, to my mind, basically two or three things. first, keep the north from making clear a split between south korea and the united states. second, show a firm resolve but also, as david suggested, offer some kind of an off ramp. that's why i thought it was so fascinating that he said today that there could be some kind of deal made. that's different rhetoric from what the administration has said before, which is the only deal

is complete denuclearization of the korean peninsula. the third thing he has to do is make clear that he would bring -- make sure the allies were with him before he took any real action. otherwise, you're going to see a split. >> so, will, you're on the ground there in pyongyang. what do you hear from officials there in north korea about a possible off ramp ordeal? >> well, north korean officials told me a couple of weeks ago when i met with a senior diplomat here that they don't feel they can talk with the trump administration. diplomacy, and we have this confirmed from several sources, broke down after president trump's speech at the united nations general assembly when he used those fiery terms like totally destroying north korea, called their leader kim jong-un rocket man. while he has dialed that back, north korea hasn't forgotten about that. it's been nearly two months since they conducted any sort of military test. there are a lot of reasons why that may or may not be.

we simply don't know the thinking of north korean leader kim jong-un. what we don't know is that the north koreans in their message repeatedly and even this week have warned the united states not to underestimate their abilities, their arsenal and officials here want to send the trump administration a very clear message because talk, they feel, simply wouldn't be effective, given the mixed messaging that has come out of the administration. >> it's also important to remember the obsession with survival that the north has. that is the real concern, that the regime will be taken over and even the chinese are sympathetic to that. they don't want american influence at its doorstep. they like the buffer of the north. i thveng that goes to the point of whether we can get far enough along where it looks like it will be tense enough that there's some off ramp. >> david has made the point before, both davids actually, that for north korea, this is

existential. what seems like push back and tough talk from the president is received differently and what that dynamic might yield. david gregory, let's talk to a different topic. in light of the fact that the u.s. air force did not communicate information that it was supposed to to the national database about the murderer in texas, and that is why he was able to get rifles that he used in this crime, the president gave a mixed message. this is what he said. >> there would have been no difference three days ago. and you might not have had that very brave person who happened to have a gun or rifle in his truck go out and shoot him and hit him and neutralize him. and i can only say this. if he didn't have a gun, instead of having 26 dead, you would have had hundreds more dead. >> now now obviously this is al

speculation by the president. but it seems to be a specious premise. forget about extreme vetting, whatever faye fancy label you want to put on it. had they communicated the information they were supposed to, the man wouldn't have been able to pass off his paperwork. we know from the texas governor that he was stopped from getting a certain carry permit because of what they knew about him. but this goes to how the system works and it is often insufficient, that there are gaps and lapses and then you have problems. >> what he should have emphasized or what anybody should have emphasized is that there are measures in place to prevent this man from ever getting a weapon and it was the military, the air force, that dropped the ball tragically, by failing to communicate that information about what this guy was, a wife beater, child abuser. he had this violent past. no way he should have had a weapon in his hands.

it goes to the point people will make which is you've got to enforce current laws, put those measures in place that exist to keep guns out of his hands. to what the president said it's belied by the facts. we've seen it in the datea. our problem in america is way too many guns, both legal and certainly illegal. and the fact that those states like texas that have lax gun laws, easier access to concealed weapons and guns in general, they get lots good guys with weapons but even more bad guys with weapons. how do they make it harder, less accessible? people like david sanger's colleagues have done interesting work as defining this as public health and not just public policy in looking at how we make some impact on this. >> david sanger, listen, the president started today in his press conference with that same old nra talking point. it's too soon to talk about this. people are grieving.

we can't talk about it. we can't look at what went wrong. but then he did ultimately answer the question. so do you think in some ways this issue of gun violence will keep coming up on his asia trip and eclipse some of what he's trying to do here? >> it already has. i'm sure it won't go away. i thought what was most notable, alisyn, was what was missing. it would have been just as easy for the president to say this man should not have had a gun. clearly there was some lapse on part of the air force. he could have said i'm calling for a complete investigation and public report to explain what happened here. he shouldn't have a gun even if the person who ultimately engaged him outside the church, very bravely, may well have been perfectly legally licensed. that doesn't strike me as something that would have been very difficult for him to say. i think it's also interesting that he never discusses this in terms of public health or public

safety. yet a week ago when we had the tragic case in new york of an extremist who ran down and killed eight people and injured many more, he had no problem the same day of the attack as talking about extreme vetting and his changes in immigration. there's a bit of a double standard here. right after an incident like this, it's politically acceptable to discuss changes in the immigration laws, perfectly reasonable thing to discuss, but not politically acceptable to discuss what we've learned about our gun laws. >> right. studies don't show that the united states has a higher rate of mental illness. it does have 25 times the average when it comes to gun deaths. clearly if you look at what the problem is, it's fairly obvious. whether you want to deal with it is another question. approximate fellows, appreciate it very much. let's get to the texas church massacre investigation itself. u.s. air force has confirmed what had been reported, which is

that it did fail to inform law enforcement about the killer's conviction for domestic violence. that move would have stopped him from buying the weapons that he used. diane gallagher is live in sutherland springs with the latest. what do we know? >> chris, we're starting to get a clearer picture of these details of what happened inside that sanctuary sunday morning. according to authorities, the killer emptied 15 magazines -- we're talking about 450 rounds at first baptist church. perhaps the most chilling of all is that in retrospect it appears that the warning signs were there. >> the air force admitting that they failed to alert federal authorities about devin patrick kelley's history of domestic

abuse, which could have prevented him from purchasing the rifle he used to carry out sunday's massacre. >> somebody really dropped the ball in this case and there's 26 dead people now. >> reporter: an investigation now under way by the air force inspector general as court records offer insight into the shooter's violent past. in 2012, the shooter pled guilty to assaults in 2011 and 2012 against his first wife, aggravated assault against his infant stepson. >> he would often be physically violent with his son, violently shaking him. as a result of that, his stepson suffered fractures, subdermal heem. >> kelley was also charged with pointing loaded and unloaded guns at his wife but those charges were dropped as a result of a plea agreement. as punishment he served one year in a military prison and was given a bad conduct discharge from the air force in 2014 along with reduction in rank. that same year, a neighbor at a

colorado rv park said he saw the shooter bite beet a dog, allegations that kelley denied before being cited for animal cruelty. he remarried in 2014. the killer recently had become obsessed with a family dispute and sent threatening text messages to his mother-in-law, including the morning of the shooting. she was not in church on sunday but another family member was. kelley's wife's grandmother, lulu white, was killed in the attack. >> we can't go into details about that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and thoroughly investigated. >> reporter: joaquin ramirez witnessed the unspeakable horror firsthand. joann was shot in the arm. >> it was so scary. that man was shooting. he was shooting hard. >> reporter: the shooting stopped for a moment as the gunman went aisle for aisle, looking for survivors. >> i thought it was the police when i saw the feet. everybody got real quiet. and be quiet. everybody was saying be quiet.

that's him. that's him. >> reporter: ramirez said the killer shot crying babies inside the church point blank. stephen willeford recounting his story to cnn affiliate. >> people in that church, they're friends of mine. they're family and every time i heard a shot, i knew that that probably represent ed a life. i was scared to death. >> willeford shot the killer, once in the leg and torso before kelley took his own life. >> i'm no here o i'm not. i think my god, my lord protected me and gave me the skills to do what needed to be done. and i just wish i could have gotten there faster. >> reporter: scott holcome, who

lost eight family members, spanning three generations, telling cnn he met the killer and is confident that kelley knew every person in the church where he carried out the massacre. the tight-knit community coming together monday to remember the victims, including the 14-year-old daughter, the church's pastor who was killed in the attack. >> one thing that gives me a sliver of encouragement is the fact that belle was surrounded yesterday by her church family that she loves fiercely. >> and one thing we're learning as we start to learn more about each of these victims, substantial number of them are children. the surrounding school districts here, some of them acknowledging they lost students, several have been injured. they remained open, though. guidance counselors are trying to help them out. vice president pence visit this is area tomorrow. after that, they continue bury tharg dead, try to get back to normal or whatever normal now is

for sutherland springs. >> it's hard to imagine what that normal could be ever there. thank you very much for the reporting. as she just said, the air force failed to report the gunman's violence to law enforcement. what can change now? that's next. (honking) (beeping) we're on to you, diabetes. time's up, insufficient prenatal care. and administrative paperwork, your days of drowning people are numbered. same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. we're coming for you too. at optum, we're partnering across the health system to tackle its biggest challenges. atso, verizon and google have acteamed up on the pixel 2.

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rrt. so, look, we had a big development. how do we stop these damn things before they happen again. the u.s. military didn't alert civil law enforcement about the domestic assault in 2014. had they done that, that type of conviction prevents you from buying a gun. let's discuss this with cnn law enforcement analyst and cnn counterterrorism analyst phil mudd. from a practical standpoint the reason there's push back on what the president said, about extreme vetting wouldn't have made a difference and maybe the guy, this neighbor who heroically took this on, maybe he wouldn't have had a gun. not only is it speculative, it's a specious premise because we

know that there was a lapse in the system that allowed this man to have a gun. >> if you're the president of the united states, a couple of basic questions. one looks back and one looks forward. how about the basic question saying i've ordered everyone to look at this, ask how we improve and also ask that critical question of whether anybody else flew under the radar and further whether we have to retrieve weapons from anyone else who flew under the radar, who was unreported. why are we doing this on paper? when someone walks in to buy a weapon in the 21st century, you would think we're headed to biometrics. you put down a fingerprint or get an iris scan. we have a lot of opportunity to improve here. just saying we can't do better doesn't make any sense to me, chris. >> that's a perfect segue. art generously brought in today firearms transaction record. i filled one of these out before. what he has done -- let's see.

let me put you to the test, our director. let's see if you can get anywhere close to that. of course you can. you see these circled areas here? these are the ones that wind up being a function of disclosure by the person who wants to buy a gun. this guy lied. we don't depend on truthfulness when it's something as serious as this but often that ends up becoming important to gun sales. explain how inconsistent that is with other procedure. >> two systems here. the system that is used to immediately check national instant criminal check system. that interfaces with ncic. but that requires an actual criminal clerk or analyst to sit

there and enter not only the arrest but the disposition of that particular case. so a lot of times you might have a lower felo in. y, individual gets arrest for the record a lower felo in. y, plea bargained down to a misdemeanor and that disposition is not entered and you, as an investigator, have to go through every single arrest. what happened here is a criminal clerk from the air force did not enter the disposition of this case into ncic so it would have popped up. >> this guy then lied. >> right. >> the system is not as efficient as it should be. >> right. >> making the point that there are things you could do. enforcing the laws that are already on the books. yeah, we don't do a good enough job about that. even that should be talked about right now. if we don't talk about it right now, it won't happen. look atlas vegas.

bump stock was a no brainer when we were out there. now, nothing. chuck frasley was asked about it. i'm going to have a hearing on that real soon. there's nothing scheduled. we go to motive, phil mudd. there was a lapse in the process here. that will help the guy get a gun. why he wanted it. that seems pretty clear why he wanted it. he went to the place where his in-laws went to church, found his grandmother-in-law there. took her life. >> the it's striking in contrast what we've seen in the last couple of days and what we've seen in las vegas. you can see somebody's life with text messages, match that up

with interviews. we're learning motive very quickly in ways i would expect to learn motive in 95% of cases. i contrast that with las vegas and i'm still scratching my head with that one. i think you're right, this will be domestic violence. i'm not sure yet but can give it a couple more day. >> people don't know how close the connection is between domestic violence and gun violence. other than suicide, which is another thing we don't focus on, 35,000 a year that are gun related. you almost never fail when you try to take your life with a gun. it's not just about taking guns from people. it's about stopping these crimes. art, knowing the system the way you do, respecting gun ownership the way you do, do you believe that there is obvious room for improvement in terms of how we monitor who gets a weapon? >> the biggest gap we have here has been shown. we're talking about air force, osi. >> sure. >> we have army cid. we have the naval criminal investigative service, u.s. coast guard investigative

service. we have to make sure that all those components are making sure that when they have a felony conviction, domestic violence that that information gets put into ncic so that when these checks are done at the gun store it pops up. the other interesting thing is what exactly what the reason why he was turned down for the concealed carry permit? that is interesting to me. because that should have been looked at. >> there's not the urgency. there's not that pursuit of perfection when it comes to who gets guns and we're seeing how that can bear out. phil mudd, thank you for value added as always. russia investigation, former trump campaign adviser carter page skuth suthed that donald trump travel to russia to deliver an obama-style foreign policy speech. and that's not all that his new testimony reveals.

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committee, we've learned more. jessica schneider joins us now with all the details. >> carter page is disclosing for the first time in that testimony that he did, in fact, meet with russian officials at the height of the campaign while serving as foreign policy adviser. afterward, he e-mailed the campaign to offer insights he had gotten with his meeting with the russian officials. now we know from page's 6 1/2 hour testimony on capitol hill he did meet with foreign officials and informed top campaign officials of this. he informed corey lewandoski, hope hicks, j.d. gordon, who ran the campaign foreign policy team at the time. carter page informing all three of them that he was, in fact, going to russia. he also promised the team of those three a readout of his trip and meetings.

lewandowski did tell carter page he should go only if he was not affiliated with the campaign and we know that carter page also floated the idea of then canned at a time donald trump taking a trip to russia in may of 2016. he floated that idea with j.d. gordon and another adviser, fachlt arris. if he would like to take my place on a trip to russia and raise the temperature a little bit, of course, i would be more than happy to yield this honor to him. a similar offer that former adviser george papadopoulos raised at a meeting. donald trump mefr made that trip to russia. carter page has revealed he has been in contact with robert mueller's team and rod rosenstein and other justice department officials all over his concerns about fisa warrants reportedly issued against him by the obama administration. a lot coming out in a 6 1/2 hour testimony. it was all last week. a lot of new details that carter

page hadn't previously revealed. >> he certainly did raise the temperature. >> he did. >> one of the key developments yesterday was that carter page had said that he was only going to relay stuff he learned from russian television to campaign officials. yesterday congressman adam schiff was chasing him around about this. that is not what he relayed to the campaign in schiff's recollection. that inconsistency could get him in hot water. we'll track it for you. president trump now embraces the idea for immigration, but insists that extreme vetting for gun ownership won't stop mass shootings. we'll take you through the facts and the differences here, next. whoooo.

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president trump was asked about whether or not he believes in extreme vetting, like we talk about for immigration, on gun ownership. he said it wouldn't have mattered. it wouldn't have prevented the massacre at the church in texas. here is the sound. >> there would have been no difference three days ago. and you might not have had that very brave person who happened to have a gun or rifle in his truck go out and shoot him and hit him and neutralize him. and i can only say this. if he didn't have a gun, instead of having 26 dead, you would have had hundreds more dead.

>> back with us now, david gregory. let's start with the facts, okay? it is hard to justify what the president is saying here, david gregory. we now know that, in fact, the military failed to pass along material information that well could have kept this man from getting a gun. forget about extreme vetting, whatever that means in any context. just the ordinary vetting, had it been done properly, may well have kept him from getting the gun. how do we know? it did on a different level. he didn't get an open carry permit because of what they were able to flag about his criminal history. what is your overall assessment of what the president is saying? >> i think what he is getting to, i think, is a cultural idea in the gun debate, that more guns are the answer. if you're better protected that you can reduce the severity of a rampage like this or prevent them from happening at all. yet the facts don't bear that

out. that's part of the problem, in states like texas that have more lax laws you have higher rates of gun deaths. nick christoph has done a very good piece. he is saying treat this as public health. the real emphasis has to be on doing everything possible to make these incidents less severe and preventing what you can. this is also, unfortunately, a perfect example of what happens when existing mechanisms are in police that are not followed. we have so many weapons in this country, so many guns. and a lot of people, including people who are bad people and mentally deranged, who are getting guns when they shouldn't. >> this is just so absurd. it's just so absurd, chris. the idea that -- i mean, the president is sticking to the tired nra talking point of the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

that's it. that is not true in other countries. they're able to stop bad guys from getting guns. that's how other developed countries do it. the idea that this guy, to be clear about his background, he choked, he punched, he hit, he pulled the hair of his wife and then cracked the skull of her infant child. that's the guy that then was able to get at least four guns that we know of. >> yep. when i heard -- i heard it early this morning, the line he played from south korea, basically says the only guy you stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> we hear it all the time. >> the problem there is that i think it winds up functioning as a catch-all for, well, can't do anything. and i think what we're dealing with here, donald trump said yesterday that this is more a mental health issue than it is a

guns issue. i would argue it's a mental health issue and a guns issue. even if you think it's just the one, we should try to do something on the one, right? to your point, alisyn. this is clearly a person who should not have been able to buy -- >> we know what the remedy is for that. >> we do. >> the air force dropped the ball. this is not donald trump's fault or people who advocate gun rights. there was an existing measure in place. had it been followed he wouldn't have had a gun. >> fair enough. in february president trump did make it easier for mentally unstable people to get their hands on a gun. >> that has nothing to do with why he got a gun in this case. >> there are a million different ways to skin this cat. >> the problem is that this is far more complicated than people want to admit. it's easy to get upset in the moment. we don't like the outcome of these situations. even if you just want to take mass shootings -- let's be honest, we are focusing on something because it bothers us emotionally. it is not a rampant problem. we have more than anywhere else

in the world. we have more of everything when guns are involved. we have 25 times the arge of gun violence here. we don't have 25 times the average of bullying or assaulters mental health problems. we have do have gun violence. mental health, who gets treated and who doesn't, matters. gun access matters. while i have you guys, though, let's talk about something else that seems to be a lot more simple on its face. carter page said his trip over to russia was a nothing burger, no big deal and he couldn't wait for this to come up. adam schiff was chasing him around yesterday about what he had said and how materially different it is now, chris cillizza. he said wait a minute you said you just want to pass along things that you said in russia tv. now we're seeing you told the campaign you would have meetings in russia and had really interesting information and that you told them that they should meet and bring trump to russia

and that the campaign was corresponding with him on that basis, a very different tell. >> yeah. i wouldn't urge people, because they have lives, to read the whole 233 page transcript of carter page's testimony but read a little bit of it. and this is literally someone who is saying whatever comes to mind. it's either unaffiliated with the trump campaign trip in which you were a tourist in russia. no, i talked to some people in coffee shops, or you were meeting with the deputy foreign minister, i believe, and came back and told trump campaign officials there's really interesting stuff that they have. it can't be both of those things. i am amazed that carter page continues to talk publicly. i think he gets himself in more

and more trouble. he wraps around a story that he keeps contradicting. >> chris cilizza, david gregory, thank you. >> big elections going on around the country. new jersey, virginia, specifically, utah and new york has a big election. voters in both of those states, new jersey and virginia, they'll elect a new governor. we're looking at those races as a potential window into the mid terms. why? we'll show you why, next.