we're waiting to hear from balance bam candidate roy moore. his candacecy is in jeopardy on

many fronts. deja vu meets total recall. one more time, testifying about camping contact with russia, some would say less than truthful testimony on prior occasions. as for the recall. it was somewhat less than total. he said until the news came out last month, he had forgotten the meeting in march of last year in which george papadopoulos discussed contact with russians and proposed the meeting between donald trump and putin. however, he does remember today that did he the right thing in that meeting. >> yes and no, did mr. papadopoulos mention his outreach during that meeting? >> he made some comment to that effect -- >> i asked for yes or no. i don't have time. >> there are reports that you shut george down, unquote, when he proposed the meeting with putin. is this correct, yes or no? >> yes.

i pushed back. >> just part of the testimony today. pamela brown joins with us more. so the third hearing today with jeff sessions, what are people saying? >> so the attorney general said today, anderson, that he remembered trump campaign contacts with russians that he didn't recall in previous hearings as recently as last month and this is after a media report surfaced where campaign volunteer george papadopoulos suggested setting up a meeting between putin and donald trump. sessions said after reading about papadopoulos's account, that as you know was in court documents, it came back to him that the meeting did in fact happen. and as you heard him say, he pushed back against a suggestion that putin and trump should meet during the campaign. he made pretty clear, that's the only detail he recalled from that meeting. he said he doesn't remember anything about carter page's visit to moscow where he met with russians, even though page said he did tell sessions in passing throughout the hearing,

sessions repeatedly said he didn't recall details about contacts with russians. at one point, the senator brought to his attention, he had said it 20 times just during the hearing. >> did he give a reason for why he had forgotten so many details? >> he explained the campaign was chaotic. it was easy to forget the details in the midst of constant travel and very little sleep. he said when it dime his meeting with russian ambassador kislyak, he didn't mention it in a previous hearing because his focus was on concerns he was engaging in continuous meetings with russians as a campaign surrogate. he said that didn't mean he had never met a russian in the history of his life. it is worth noting, kislyak said that he met with sessions a couple of times during the campaign and the two men did have discussions about campaign-related matters. but sessions today testified he that he has never lied or misled

congress under oath regarding what he could recall at the time. >> joining us now, as you know, also investigating the campaign in russia. does it make sense to you, what he could and could not remember today? do you buy it? >> it is not impossible to believe in the hurley burly of a campaign, someone might forget a junior or anyone saying i have this thing going on. so who knows? bigger picture, this is part of a much larger pattern that involves people like general flynn and donald trump jr., of people forgetting or simply lying about contacts with russia. that doesn't necessarily imply that those contacts with russia

are there, but it is one more brick in the wall of people not coming out and being clear and honest about what those contacts were. >> sessions made it clear today that he does not accept and rejects accusations that he has ever lied under oath, despite the inconsistencies of what he's said. do you believe he's lied under oath? >> well, you know, again, that's hard to say. you would have to be inside jeff sessions' mind to know that for sure. but again, for me, as one of the members of an investigatory committee, this is yet another example of one of a half dozen senior trump administration people, senior trump campaign people who are either forgetting, or blatant lying about their contacts with russians. i don't want to try to climb into jeff sessions' head. my friends on the republican side of the aisle are desperate for this investigation to go away, the best way for this investigation to go away, of

course, is for people to be totally up front. to recall everything and put the facts throughout and let the investigations conclude. >> so when someone is zpefg they've sworn to tell the truth and to answer questions completely, is it fine to say, i won't answer that because i don't think i should talk about that conversation i had? the white house hasn't claimed executive privilege? it seems like sessions has done that a number of times. a democratic congressman raised questions about that today. >> that has been a theme of this investigation. the carter page transcript now public, shows that carter page in his interview with my committee, tried to assert some sort of privilege associated with a nondisclosure agreement that he signed with the trump

campaign. the reality is, yes, of course, attorney-client privilege exists. the right to not incriminate yourself exists. that doesn't mean you the can't hide facts that are embarrassing or incriminating. so part of investigation i'm involved in is really working through whether you have the right to assert attorney-client privilege, whether you have the right to assert the contractual obligations against an investigation. this is an ongoing investigation. >> so we now know that donald trump jr.'s contacts with russians, he is communicating with wikileaks that the hacked clinton e-mails. is this more smoke or do you believe there's actually fire here? >> well, i wouldn't use smoke or fire. reb we started with a blanket of

a denial of any contact with russians. >> the media and donald trump admitted it. we know in two separate occasions he had a meeting in which he met with russians for the explicit that you recall of getting dirt on hillary clinton. and yesterday, donald trump jr.'s confirmation of it, he was in contact with wikileaks. and i understand wikileaks, they're a hard to think about entity, but wikileaks is a nonu.s. organization that does not have the best interests of the united states in mind. in fact dedicated to creating chaos, slowing down, obstructing national aims. the president's son was openly seeking information from that entity. >> has trump jr. agreed to speak

with the house intelligence committee? >> let me say, that we as the senate are quite interested in hearing from him about these two episodes. the meeting with the russians that he owned up to and the communications he owned up to with wikileaks which is not a group with american stability or prosperity in mind. >> all right. thanks very much. i want to bring in the panel. david, what do you make of sessions yet again on capitol hill? >> i think it is a bad day for him. i think he looks strained in his memory at the very least. he seems very careful in his answers. i think he's lost a lot of credibility among his colleagues, to say nothing of the distraction that he's creating for the administration. and a president who is already down on him, putting him in a position where he's only sure of

himself when it comes to what the right answer would have been which is to tell papadopoulos -- >> but no other details. >> he can't remember the other details is sloppy in the very least. i think the bigger picture is important too. you have an embattled attorney general who has a president who is actively dismissive of the threat that russia posed and he contemptuous of the investigation to get to the bottom of it. and he is pushing his attorney general around on this and then getting him to go into these extra matters with hillary clinton. he looks weak as an attorney general. and i think it is quite interesting that the majority leader of the senate is going out of his way to say the best person for that alabama seat is the current attorney general. that may say something about what bengals whether sessions would like the get out of that job. >> from a testimony standpoint, it is ghefr if you have to come back three times reveal what you could have done the first time. >> any time you have to clean things up as many times as you

have, it creates credibility questions. these questions he'sing and the papadopoulos meeting, you have to believe this meeting, to believe it is a real problem. you have to believe it is a high level confab of real players. the reality is as far as i can tell, it was a photo op to set up to give the appearance that they had a foreign policy team. they didn't. they had a photo op. this thing met one time. i'm not surprised he can't remember what happened in a photo op. that's all that it was. we'll see it on television a hundred times and play make believe this was a real policy meeting. that's baloney. this campaign was disorganized at the time. they were pulling it together on the fly. >> i don't believe jeff sessions can remember anything from this meeting because wasn't important. >> the thing about the disorganization, that is as people pointed out, a ripe atmosphere to exploit. if you're a russian.

>> i think they're being cultivated by the russians of they're idiots. that doesn't make jeff sessions a bad person which is what we're talking about. >> i don't think we're talking about whether or not jeff sessions is a bad person. i think we're talking about whether or not his credibility, not only as attorney general but as someone who has direct knowledge about any time of russian contacts, has been destroyed. at this point, i don't know what's worse. you saying they didn't have a foreign policy team or you saying that this issue is fabricated in some way. the fact that we're talking about the president of the united states now sitting at that table could potentially be as russian government calls it, a problem. this is by no stretch a light matter. or taking it in a light-hearted way. the fact is that jeff sessions

has been there three times to testify. the fact is jim comey was said to have been fired for this reason. the fact is now donald trump jr. has had some type of contact with wikileaks. the fact of the matter is now, this is not just a distraction attorney general has created. this is a distraction from the very top. which is many of the problems the trump administration, the problems they enjoy, a lot of issues they've manufactured themselves. we have donald trump at the podium saying, russians, if you're listening, we would like to see those missing e-mails. you have donald trump jr. tweeting, sending accounts and different things for his father to tweet. so these are all unforced errors. the fact robert mueller has a job as a special counsel is because of an action that president trump took. so i think it is important for folks to remember that these are

problems the administration brought upon themselves. the twitter that has been the president, twitter fingers, may be his demise. >> do you think the attorney general has been truthful? >> i think he's been truthful. i don't think he is a liar. let's backtrack. he is long been in the legal profession. when he puts his hand on the bible and takes an oath, i think he means it. does he need to take some ginkgo biloba? probably. for memory. >> only -- >> to recall some of these things. at the end of the day, the question is this. is there a crime? the question is, even if they took a meeting, even if they asked about papadopoulos and he told them not to do it.

all these things that have been happening. the drip, drip, drip. i think that's why it is important. >> the point is -- it's not our job to put all this together. the special prosecutor will drive it toward conclusion. what we know as citizens and journalists watching, there we have an administration that says there was nothing to see here. nothing that went on. except for that. that didn't mean anything. except for that. that didn't mean anything. we don't blank the totality is yet. >> let's take a quick break. we'll continue the discussion. we're continuing on wait for roy moore to speak. and later, gop lawmakers and their high stakes gamble. can they pass a tax bill by adding a controversial obamacare repeal measure to it? each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps.

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ginkgo biloba or not, he said he did not recall the meeting in march of last year which contacting with rush was discussed. at least not until he read about it in the paper. and he tried to explain why. >> it was a form of chaos every day from day one. we traveled sometimes in several places every day. sleep was in short supply. >> back the panel, their names escape me. i think some people watching this who are watching a critical eye would say that it does seem like a lot of people in the president's orbit have a difficult time, time after time, remembering anything to do with russia. and yet over time it keeps popping up. >> i think some of the people could be reflecting back and saying, i wish i would have come

forward and said i have this meeting. and said this took place. they didn't. and i think they did not do that because to scott's point, many of these things weren't anything. they were insignificant. so to breathe life into something that's insignificant when the media has been such a focus, such a focus russia collusion, russia collusion, they step back and say -- >> had the white house early on, just said, you know what? let's put this all out here. we've looked through the e-mails. >> we had up front answers. >> if there's no there, there, this has been dragging on for a year. and there's no end in sight. >> i think part of it is there's just general knowledge, i do believe, on any campaign. especially a presidential campaign. if a foreign entity approaches and you you are having conversations with a foreign entity out of purrview of your job, that's probably not

something you should be doing. i think we've seen folks leave off information of that nature because they know it is inappropriate and it would be frowned upon and picked apart, like has happened since it has come out in the media. i want to reiterate. this is not normal. and multiple folks have been involved in the trump campaign to note, the campaign was chaotic. we never got much sleep. >> a message was sent from the top. that this is worthless and there's nothing here. >> and it is being used to delegitimize the election. >> and it is all fake. so if you think anywhere in the administration, you think this isn't much of a priority. this was known in october of 2016 that the russians were trying to interfere. the media knew. people knew people in the then candidates' orbit.

somebody in the white house should have stood up and said, we're going to get to the bottom of it. anybody who even looked at russia. we want to know. >> do you think that would have been painful perhaps initially but long term would have been better or does it not work that way? >> i think it would have been better to get that out up front. i think there are two things driving the attention on russia. the sessions testimony today is getting a lot of attention. i think this meeting that we're obsessing over is unimportant compared to wikileaks. most people that i know think of twleeks way the intelligence agencies do. they're foreign hostile intelligence service. when you get messages from those people, we're well beyond a campaign photo op. so to me, everything going on. i worry less about jeff sessions' meeting. i worry more about this concept that wikileaks was apparently able to send messages that programmed the communications of a presidential candidate.

>> judge moore has just taken the podium. let's listen. >> what an honor. i hope you can hear me. >> it is a great honor. thank you for the introduction. i'm a little him bred to follow a preacher from texas. they do everything big in texas and we're just little old alabama. i will act like a preacher a little bit and take off my watch and set it here. that's what preachers do. you know what that means, don't you? not much. but it especially doesn't mean much when you can't see the

hands. anyway, i'll try. as i came here, i didn't know exactly, i haven't got a planned speech. but it rhymes with what you've been listening to here. god save america. on the wall, you can see if my people who are called by my name, shall humble and pray and seek my ways, then i will hear from heaven and forgive their sins and heal their land. i'm running for united states senate. i'm not going to heal your land. neither is president trump, president obama, any president, any supreme court, any senator, any recommendive. they won't heal your land. only god will heal your land. so i'm going to talk about that a little bit. i've played a little part in the scenario going on in the

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roy moore is addressing a revival meeting in alabama. he is under fire from many directions. the latest report that he was on an unofficial watch list at the local mall. allegedly for approaching girls. back now with the panel. as you look, i'm wondering what you think will happen. >> i've talked to some very high level republicans in washington. they're very concerned and they've seen that moore is cratering. that jones is well ahead in the race. we've seen some very volatile polling. according to their data, they see moore falling way behind jones. so there's a scramble to see if he can be replaced. ultimately what i'm hearing is that all roads lead back to the white house. only donald trump, the president, has the influence

enough with the governor of alabama and the alabama republican party to get them to say withdraw roy moore's candidacy as a republican. which they can do. >> he can't be taken off the ballot. >> no, but his name can be withdrawn as a candidate and votes for him would not count. there are other things in the poll that are interesting. jeff sessions still polls extremely well in the state of alabama, according to what my sources are telling me. >> another thing that i was talked to an issue being researched and whether luther strange, the current occupant of the seat, could even resign so jeff sessions could be reappointed to his old seat. psych that the scramble is on.

>> you're saying based on your sources it is being investigated. if luther strange was to step down, jeff sessions would be appointed. that means there would be no election. >> one theory is there may not have to be an election. either way, sessions is still very popular. he was leading jones on the ballot test. so a lot of theories. the republican party is in a tough way. >> the president did buy himself some time. he said i have to get back into the country to see what's happened. >> i think the irony is he's saying, president trump's influence on alabama republican party to say who is the next senator. he wanted luther strange from the beginning. he campaigned for luther strange hard. a lot of people were against him. if you're donald trump, you're saying, i told you so.

i'm concerned that they're talking about ways to avoid an election because they do not want their candidate to lose. they're talking about changing the rules and finationling something to happen so doug jones does not have to go on the battle against roy moore. i don't think anyone at the democratic national committee were thinking about ways that we could actually change local elections, primaries or caucuses. >> i think the republicans in alabama supporting roy moore would agree with you. >> according to your point, donna brazibrazile -- >> we're not going there. >> one of the things i would love to do is talk about the strategy of this moment. roy moore is at a revival. more than 35% of folks in alabama are evangelicals. this is brilliant.

whether we like roy moore, whether we believe he is a low down dirty buzzard like i do, or not, this is a brilliant strategic move. i don't know how strategic it was to be speaking off the cuff and said revival, but i think it was very smart for them to go and allow him to quote second chronicles, talking about turning from one's wicked ways. and i think of a scripture that says if you don't speak out, the rocks will cry out. he's hardheaded because he won't speak out to the american people for what are clearly discretions. >> the party is looking at him cratering in the race. think of the back story. the president did regret backing strange. did he what mitch mcconnell wanted him to do. ultimately a losing effort. now roy moore is cratering. and then there is the question of sessions.

maybe president trump doesn't want jeff sessions to be the attorney general anymore. and he can encourage him to get on the ballot. and remember the broader context. he still has to get tax reform through. he can't afford to lose the seat in alabama. >> we'll continue in a moment with judge moore and the president's agenda.

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for allegations in the last 28 days of this election? the last 30 days? after 40 something years of fighting this battle, i am now facing allegations. that's all the press want to talk about. but i want to talk about the issue. i want to talk about where this country is going. if we don't come back to god, we're not going anywhere. >> he said he's being harassed by the media. we were talking about obviously the importance of this race but also, for those who want to see the president's agenda moving forward. describe the timetable. >> they have good momentum for it. today senate decided to put the individual mandate of the obamacare in the bill. it has a deal to pass alexander murray which people like on the substance. that's 50 votes as the senate is

currently constituted. senator mcconnell has laid out a time line where they may move in december. this election in alabama is december 12. if the calendar is pushed on tax reform and jones beats more or whoever in alabama, we're not at 50. now we're at 49 on the republican tax plan. so this situation in alabama right now may be the thing that keeps the republicans on congress on track. if they have 50 votes for this deal with the individual mandate repeal in it, they can't afford to lose even one. >> based on the polling i was briefed on. if they don't get this done before a democrat may win this seat in alabama, getting the individual mandate repealed in this tax bill will be really, really difficult. it doesn't mean tax reform is done. >> plus, the trump adviser steve bannon is talking about getting

rid of mitch mcconnell. they're taking the call now. he's the only one with a plan to keep this tax reform bill together. and that run may run through alabama. >> it is a high bar though. the tax bill specifically with this individual mandate, this partial repeal, if you will, add in the there, is not very popular. and today you have folks coming out on cnn and other net works that they needed to do this in the bill for tax cuts. attach cuts for billionaires are not popular to the american people. so i think they might have a hard time getting this through the court of public opinion. i think people may be call their congressmen. >> and will the president only get involved in a deeper way showing that he's cratering. if it is shown that he can win against jones, it would be a

double vote against him. if roy moore wins, that doesn't look good to donald trump. >> if that you said democrats would control the senate and it would be imperilled, that's crazy. that's where we are. that's why the president in my view has to get involved. he's the only one to convince they will to do the right thing and remove moore's name from nomination. >> if that was true, then luther strange would be sitting there as the candidate. they ignored the president. now the president is someone who wants a win. the only way he will get engaged is if he foresees that he will not believe able to get a legislative win.

>> the if there's enough including republicans, they really see a cratering. i think the white house will listen to mitch mcconnell and say the best chance to salvage tax reform is to go in this direction. >> i think the thing we miss talking about policy in these the lofty terms, the impact on people's lives. so we talked about the billions of dollars that they could save but not the 13 million people whose lives and health would be in peril if this individual mandate repetition goes forward. that's the important thing. that's the pressure point that people need to use when calling their members of congress. there is key issue for so many of us. the reason why the affordable care act was passed to begin with. and why the 60 plus attempts have been unsuccessful. >> we're going to take another quick break. when we come back, we'll talk

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as we've been discussing, not only are events moving quickly but on top of that, the entire gop strategy on passing a tax bill could hinge to some extent.

sources tell cnn the republicans on the senate finance committee unanimously supported it. so clearly a lot at stake for the republicans. >> this is about revenue. 330ball. it would come from a repeal of the individual mandate and that's money they need. they need to it make permanent their corporate tax cuts. to add more relief. they need to make sure they can move it how to a simple majority. the tradeoff is with that comes the numbers 13 million and 10%. the former, that would be how many people with insurance. the latter, that's how much the premiums would go up. that's the tradeoff. understanding the political cause. the tradeoff being they can

hopefully get it through. it is a calculated risk. no question about it. it is seared into their memory. and up to the point of now, they haven't been able to get the votes for health care. they believe the political imperative, the speed with which they're moving. they need to do something, anything on the legislative front will end up winning the day over the political kernels. over riling up the base. over co-mingling with tax reform. the big question is, will it pay off? they feel comfortable. only one reason it could end up with the bill. they can at least get 50 votes for that at any point in the last ten months. they are clogging up what has been otherwise a fairly smooth

processful will it work out? they need the money. could this end up sinking it entirely? right now they don't have that answer. >> i think right now they have 50 votes. so speed here. time is of the essence. speed kills in this case. >> is it wise to bring the health care debate into this? >> well, they need the money number one. number two they're still trying to satisfy a base that is still hopping mad. >> i think it's worth taking a look at how haphazard and disorganized this approach has been to very quickly get tax reform through. they are phasing in some of these cuts over time, and yet because that's how they meet

some of the revenue goals. and yet they tell us it's going to spark economic growth. it doesn't make sense. you are losing votes. and the idea you want to play around with this health care system, you take away that individual mandate, which is struggling as it is. it is a key pillar that makes the health care system actually work. which is young healthy buy in as well as older sick people. it's what is the foundation of it. so i think it's politically risky. >> she had questions about what a partial repeal of the individual mandate would mean not just for her constituents but americans across the board and said she needed more answers on that. so this is just not popular. >> but you also have senator

mccain who voted last time who supported this. adding this on is a smart political move especially if you can get senator mccain and others who were hold outs last time to come on and support it. >> when you ram through there are spots -- >> like obamacare. >> not obamacare. the reason you did it through the house is there's this process called redistricting. but people who have to be accountable to larger constituents with different interests can't get it done. and the reason for that is people don't want to lose our health care. if you continue to just say we want to undo everything about

president obama's legacy regardless of societal impact and quite literally the millions of americans, i think you have to start taking a calculated risk. and this one frankly is not wise. >> but is the political risk of not doing something for republicans, isn't that primary in their mind right now in. >> i think it's a big issue particularly when you look at the fact there's not been any major achievement of this administration so far because they haven't been very calculated and thoughtful -- >> this is the reason why they're willing to take a gamble here. >> so my point is you have a situation where they've not been able to move the needle on any majorchievement for donald trump. except for an executive order trying to undue obamacare. and now here you are struggling to figure out yet again an

obamacare issue at a time with tax reform. >> it's obviously they think is worth taking to scott's point because they do have to get something done on this. i think it is rushed. i think there's a lot of mistakes that could come out of all of this. but right now they've got to look at the numbers. and certain things cancan be reconciled. >> this is the first time all year where it's felt like republicans have had momentum. since mcconnell and trump appeared in the rose garden they've got serious move on judges. they've got movement on tax reform. they've got the budget reconciliation bill done, which people thought was a problem and they got that done with no problem. so we actually have a little momentum going on right now.

and people are feeling good about being on the team, the president's engagement and that's when you can take a risk -- >> when we're talking about doing ads, the one thing they got done was tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires and you, 13 million people lost health care coverage. >> but democrats run those ads for every election. every election it's tax cuts for billionaires. >> we have deal, deals, we have nothing done. and the one thing you're going to get done is something that has hurt middle class americans when they do not like that. >> we're going to leave it on that note. i want to thank everybody. coming up, the latest on a shooting ram pain in northern california left at least four people dead before police killed the gunman. the latest on what happened.

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reading. he filed multiple rounds into the elementary school woundsing one student. the gunman actually tried to get into the school but couldn't because the staff quickly put everything on lock down. "cnn tonight" starts now. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. president trump back in the white house after his two week trip to asia. and he's got a lot on his plate at home. there's roy moore refusing to drop out of the senate race despite stunning allegations from five women who say she sexually abused them when they were teenagers. >> i want to talk about the issue. i want to talk about where this country's going. and if we don't