ac 360 with john berman begins right now. the ever more curious case of jared kushner. john berman in for anderson tonight. it has to do with weikileaks which published it had e-mail stolen. this development turns up the heat on the president's son-in-law and could mean another date with congress. cnn ed perez join us with the latest. what have you learned? >> jared kushner told investigators he didn't communicate with wikileaks and don't recall anyone in the campaign who did. we now know from disclosures this week that donald trump jr. sent e-mail to others and the campaign last year to pass on information that he had learned from wikileaks and dan kushner

forwarded that e-mail to hicks and other officers at the white house. >> so what's the next step here? >> this latest revelation turns up the pressure on kushner to go back to capitol hill for more interviews and perhaps explain himself. we herd yesterday, john from the leaders of the judiciary committee who sent a public letter to kushner's lawyer that he failed to turn over documents that they know exist and that includes information about wikileaks. the letter said other had provided documents showing quote, september 2016 e-mails to mr. kushner concerning wikileaks which he forwarded to other campaign members. >> he doesn't recall being told anyone in the campaign communicated with wikileaks, don junior sent e-mails saying he

has. how is team kushner responding? >> we got a response from abbey lowe, kushner's attorney. he said, quote over six hours of voluntarily testimony mr. kushner answered all questions put to him and demonstrated there have been no collusion in the campaign with russia. cur ner saying he didn't recall, not that he didn't receive it he's saying he didn't remember. >> evans stay are there. more on jared kushner seems to turn up throughout this information. we expect robert mueller will be interviewing kushner at some point. pamela brown has a look at what kushner's role has been so far. >> reporter: a new request from lawmakers for more of jared kushner's information and more on wikileaks.

kushner, the president's son-in-law and key adviser is involved in key moments with inverification as they seek answerings on russian meddling and any collusion with the campaign. >> in have been fully transparet in providing all information. >> reporter: kushner's role is being looked at. including revelations this week he forwarded e-mails about donald trump jr. to wikileaks. he played a role in the firing of the former fbi director james comey by supporting the decision. cnn is learning investigators are asking witnesses about the firing that is now part of the justice probe. he spearheaded the campaign's data analytics which is now under scrutiny by investigations. cnn reported russian probes at times targeted specific sites on

facebook. two states frum nearly one. during the height of the presidential campaign, kushner long with don junior and then campaign paul manafort take a meeting with the russians. kushner said the meeting turned out to be so insignificant he accidentally left it off his form. kushner's apparent look of transparency has drawn the eye of democrats. >> he apparently is omitting documents and that's why i have advocating subpoenas for the documents. he certainly is doing hispanic no favor -- himself no favor by withholding some and i think he ought to appear before the committee for a hearing. >> reporter: kushner also healed

a meeting at the trump tour during the transition where it was discussed using russian secure communications to discuss syria policy during the transition. kushner denied it was meant as a secret back channel. another meeting is one he had with russian government. he denied they discussed business matters but the bank released the statement saying business was the purpose of guerrero cough trip. kushner did not discuss an account he used for meetings. kushner's lawyer says his client is voluntary providing documents to mueller's team and investigator and have been cooperate through the the process. >> still so much forgotten or not disclosed or disclosed and not forgotten. pamela brown joins us. michael zeldon and john dean.

john, immaterial -- i want to start with you. the breaking news tonight is jared kushner says he did not recall any e-mails with wikileaks. how big of a jam do you think jared kushner is in tonight? >> well, the i don't recall defense is a good one if you actually do know what you're talking about and just don't want to remember for refresh your recollection. bop alderman, the white house chief of staff went to jail on that specifically, he was convicted of perjury for claiming he couldn't recall. and jurors also react to his repetitive i don't recall, because these things get flushed up if someone gets pressed in a grand jury. i think he better start refreshing his recollection before he give testimony because he's hurting himself badly.

>> michael zeldon, when does this become perjury, or is this a golden ticket not just for jared kushner but other people involve in this situation, like jeff sessions? >> right, so john dean said it right, is if i don't know is seen as a purposeful lie to avoid answering the question. in halderman's case there were tapes, he knew what was there, he remembered, but le used, "i don't recall" as a means of lying. on a one question question, do you recall receiving any information about wikileaks and the answer is, i don't recall, on the one off that's not going to amount to perjury and it's going to be incumbent on the questionnaire to ask more questions. in this area of false statements and obstruction of justice, you really need to see patterns of

behavior that are based on specific questions or specific requests for documentation that are proper crafted but the individual who has to response and answer did so with the intent to mislead. in this case, i don't know yet that we're there with kushner. for example, if the question put to kushner was, did you have any contacts with russians, that's one question. if it's, did you have any contact with russians, russian emissaries and people affiliated with russians that's a different question. they'd each require a different answer. each defense attorney knows you'd answer the question asked of you and don't volunteer more information. there's people who want this information, just have to do a better job of asking for it. >> michael, the fact he had all the nondisclosure issues of

thing he was supposed to disclose, does it make it harder to argue this was a one off? >> yes. in some respect the more there's a pattern, the harder it is to argue, i don't remember is a truthful answer. with respect to the sf-86 form, that form is a form that ask for answers. you fill it out, you remember more thungs and you fill it out. i remember i filled it out they asked me what form of travel i've had in a ten-year period. i had to get my passport, look at all the stamps and fill them in. and you submit the form and you say, oh my goodness i remember i went to this place and i traveled on an official passport. the form can say you can amend and you should up until the time you're interviewed by the fbi. it doesn't necessarily in itself reflect dishonesty. you have to build a mosaic and say do all these things fit in and do they create a pattern or

are they just innocent independent mistakes. >> pamela, one other item, jared cu kushner's been to a lot of places including that meeting in the trump tower with the russian lawyer who promszed didn't jr. -- don junior bert on hillary clinton. >> he was really the -- robert mueller has been in touch with his attorney, bob gauge to set up a time to come to the united states, right now he's in thailand. where he can come to the united states and be interviewed by mueller's team. and rob goldstone is a figure when it comes to that trump tour meeting who gold stone had had incrimination information on hillarily. he also said the russian

government was trying to help the trump campaign. those are people around him, he was goosing up the language to get the meeting. mueller's team want to get to the bottom of it to see if there's some broader conspiracy and get his account to see what happened in that meeting. john. >> so ed, one other part here is you have jared kushner at the center over the investigation. there were alt a lot of -- also a lot of questions for donald trump jr. there is a question about whether or not their interest coincide here. >> right. i think that's been one over the questions that certainly came up back in june when we started asking about the trump tower meeting, john. i think when we first approached it we were interested telling the story about jared curber amending his fs-86. then, suddenly the

administration or the warehouse came up with a new answer that put it all as don junior's fault. they have a little bit of die verging interest here. whether you get questions about this you're going to see -- these are questions that robert mueller will be interested in, in looking at the answers and see how they differ. i think that's going to really be important to see how this all plays out. >> all right guys. we'll continue this information in just a moment. president trump still staying silent on the accusations of roy moore, despite laying into the also franken for his misconduct. when 360 continues. coaching means making tough choices.

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if your uc or crohn's treatment isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach. back down to our breaking news. white house consider adviseder jared kushner told senior investigators he did not recall anyone on the trump campaign communicating with wikileaks. we know kushner did received and forwarded an e-mail by donald trump jr. about his e-mails with wikileaks. the investigators are also asking for my documents they say

he withheld. let's bring back our panel. pamela brown i want to start with you, the notion that kushner didn't comply with the request for documents, do we know if the committee is circling back with anyone else who was asked for information? >> well, not publicly that we know of. this seems to be the first example where you see a committee releasing a public record calling on someone who has part of the -- whose part of the russian investigation to provide missing documents. the discussion with kushner was as broad -- the reason they know, they knew some of the missing documents that -- that kushner hasn't turned over these documents was because don junior had turned over everything. abbey lowe sent a letter to the judiciary add admonishing them

for going to the media for this request. if there has been two document productions prior to there why this hadn't been turned over. as michael zeldon pointed out it could be intention federal not to hand over things voluntarily. >> john, we're talking about the president's son-in-law here and his son donald trump jr. do you think the president of the united states, if they faced any serious legal trouble would hesitate to pardoned them? >> well, i would -- the natural instinct of course would be to do so. he may also let the process play out and make sure they don't go to jail. we're really early to be thinking about pardons. i can't believe his counsel has told him not to send a signal because it would be obstruction of justice to offer a pardon at this early stage.

that's one of things nixon was charged with before the congress in his impeachment. so i think it's pretty early to be thinking pardons. >> it'll be interesting to see how much history they know. michael zeldon, i want to play a clip of sound today. this is attorney general jeff sessions. he was talking with the federal society, a conservative leader group in washington. watch this. >> but i just was thinking, you know i said -- when i ask is ambassador kislyak in the room? before i get started here. any russians? anybody been to russia? got a cousin in russia or something? >> so michael, the audience loved the joking. the question is does robert

mueller thinks it's so funny that the attorney general over the united states who may or may not be connected to this jofr all investigation is making these kind of jokes? >> i don't think it's beginning to affect mueller's thinking about this one way or the other. if he's looking at attorney general sessions for possibly lying under oath, i don't believe that was completely within his mandate. i don't think that he made a joke that the federal society is going to matter one way. however, as appearance matter i don't think it would be smart to advise the attorney general to make fun of his lapse of memory. he didn't remember 100 something times of three days of testimony, that doesn't create a good appearance. makes it seem that he's putting the thumb in the eye of congress. i don't believe it's smart for him to have done that but it was a cute joke. >> well if anyone in the audience had answered yes, to

russia the real thing is if the attorney general would have been remembered later on. do you have any sense that the attorney general is part of this investigation by this special counsel or that he will be questioned ultimately if. >> i think we expect at some point sessions will be asked questions especially in particular about the firing of jam james comey which we know is what robert mueller is looking into. the question is if there was any attempt to obstruction of justice at all. the ronald reason mueller's office exist is because comey was fired. we expect that he will be. so far sessions has not been asked. i think just in reaction to what he was laughing about at the infederalist society, remember hillary clinton was joking about the rag, wiping away the server or something something like that

that and people didn't find that funny either, certainly the fbi didn't. i think that's the context people who are looking at the russian investigation are looking at that joke. >> jeff sessions laughing today. we'll see how long that last. guys thank you. the president has no problem weighing in on trafranken's sex conduct so why not roy moore, keeping them honest next. directv has been rated number one in customer satisfaction over cable for 17 years running. but some people still like cable.

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keeping them honest tonight, silence can say a lot. selective silence even more, that plus hypocrisy most of all. white house sarah sanders called the sexual assault against him

serious. it's serious when another woman says she was sexually assaulted wen she was 16, the question isn't whether the claims are serious it's do you believe them? and if you do is roy moore worthy of being a u.s. senator? late today alabama's governor weighed in says she stands with moore even though she has no reason to doubt his accusers. she is choosing his platform over alleged pedestrianphilia. you can agree or disagree with her decision but it is a decision. the president has made no such commitment. for 8 days, nothing. beyond a throw away phrase using mere allegations if they are true. no comments, not even a tweet, just a picture of the president not tweeting about anything. however, he had tweeted about al frank ken's conduct. the picture the really bad he

wrote, speaks a thousand words. and to think that just last week he was lecturing anyone who'd listen about sexual harassment and respect for women. so the president limits his rage to franken, a democrat and staying silent on roy moore, a republican, which is odd. it is odd when you consider all the democrats condemning al franken even after his apology yesterday. it's odd whether you see gi-- p it in the notion of two parties protecting their own melt. yet instead of rising to that moment, a bipartisan moment we should add, the president of the united states, the head of the republican party and traditionally at least, a moral example for the country has shrugged from it while taking

shots a a member of the opposing party. so why franken and not moore? >> the president weighed if as he does on the news of the day. since then our press secretary's spoken on behalf of the president bysy saying he believes the people will decide to do with roy moore. >> so the roy moore story is old news and franken's is not. it would explain why he stopped talking months ago about hi length victory. oh wait. the fact is old news, new news big or small this president weighs in on it. so the fact he can't be bothered with the steal news out of alabama is hard to believe. i want when there's new developments every day, sometimes every hour. is it partisanship, hypocrisy or

both? you can decide for yourself. how far is it personal? that's hard to deny. 13 reasons he won't say it -- 13 women who have gone on the record with claims about roy's past behavior. so, the president says they are all lying, all of them. so, if you're keeping score at home, he is fine saying franken is guilt rkt and bill clinton and he's not surprised about harvey window steen but he's wielded to extend the doubt to roy moore, and the man caught on tape saying this.

>> iautomatically attracted to beautiful women, i just start hissing at them. and when you're a star they let you do anything. grab them by the fussy, you can do anything. >> david gurgan first to you, the president waiting in as he did over night. what does it accomplish to him other than making him look like a hypocrite politically and personal? >> john, first the team think americans are stupid, they don't know or see the hypocrisy that people don't care. i think he got it wrong. women are coming forward all across the country on these issues. more than are looking for leadership out over the white house, they're not getting it. the president's taken an

enormous camel, that is if he can stay silent long enough, get up there in that election and roy moore can pull it off, go to victory then this could go away. i don't think it goads away. there is one of the classic cases that americaning get it and they do care. >> so abbey phillips there was a remarkable line pushed back saying the president -- >> it's almost a little too convenient. there are differences in this case, there is a photo of al franken doing something that most people agree is pretty horrific and there's no such photograph of donald trump doing that, but there is an audio tape which you just played which the white house seems to believe can

be easily dismissed. there are a lot of people out there who watch that tape and say this is someone whose committed to this kind of behavior, which indicates it's not something that he at the time at least believed he was out of order. the white house also maintaining that these women who are accusing the president of wrong doing are still lying, even after all this time and promises of lawsuit they have a blanket statement that these women are just liears. and they provided no evidence to admit that they are. they just don't want to have the conversation and i think the president is drawn to images. al franken admitted that he did something wrong and he knows it'll harder to do it when it comes to the specific accusations that these women have made against him. i think they're using that as an opportunity to make this in some ways a partisan attack.

>> phillip, there a political thing for the president he just want to lose the seat in ma'am or anger his base? >> it seems pretty clear he and his party would prefer to hold on to that seat in alabama. the quote you just had from sarah sanders is political -- so, what he's going is defending himself and saying al franken is a bad guy and his base eats it up and they'll continue to and that has been his strategy. >> is he providing a roadman for someone with -- road map for someone with saul assault.

>> that's the thing, people knew about the hollywood tape and the accusers and they voted for him anyway. i think that's why he thinks this is working for him. it also is a strategy where he is at thumb tails with his entire media strategy. "the washington post" is out to get me. so i think this also works in his favor to kind of take to bat roy moore anyway. >> well-see how it continues to play. more on the president at roy moore after lashing out after al franken. ♪

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we're talking about president trump's willingness to

condemn senator al franken despite his unwilling to condemn roy moore. this is what the president said back on november 11 for his trip from asia about the alleged sexual misconduct. the president says i'll basically put out a statement which was obvious i'll stick with statement for now. we'll have further comment as we go down the road. i'd have to get back to the country to see what's happening. well, the president's been back for a couple of days and still no statement. let's bring back our panel. david, what is today, today's november 17th. the special lunch in alabama is december 12. i simply don't believe he can last until december 12 to lash out on this. >> i think that's later, john.

i think i basically agree he's taking a gamble. it was a gamble he took on hollywood access tape, just shrug it off. the voters stuck with him and he won the election. he's trying to do the same thing here. that's old news, i don't want to get into that, talk about something else. we passed the big tax bill, that's what's more important. that will be a gamble paid off. i do think times have changed since the access hollywood tape. at that time people stuck with him because they had great hope he would tlifr jobs, promises, detail with obamacare and the rest, now they're not seeing that happening he's not getting good marks. i don't think people are as near as hopeful and patient with him as they were then. >> and ed, the franken statement, it's one thing commenting on moore but wen you comment on franken you create more problems. >> right.

he's going through he has to get tax reform done, he's off message again. it's taking him off the russian story line on to sexual assault story line, something he is desperately to avoid. i spoke to a couple of republicans who say it's obvious what he's trying to do. he doesn't want to have to face -- talk about himself and what he's gone through. this is a problem for him. >> abbey, how much does mitch mcconnell and other republican leaders who out on a limb here with the party, how much do they want the president involved here? would they like to see him make a stand? >> i think they would. they very much want trump to show the way here. just like trump didn't endorse roy moore in the primaries, trump's voters are behind roy moore. steve bannon non is a driving force in that company and i

think mcconnell would like for trump to step in and say something, it's not clear that'll make a difference. trump's lack of endorsement in the primaries did not stop roy moore from winning. we do not mcconnell and his staff are trying to put together a list of options for the president. trying to give him indication of what the options are. unfortunately not many of those options are good. i think they're in a bind, maybe looking for a way out. it might be wishful thinking that someone whose persisted and despite the fact trump didn't endorse him, is fwing to step down and do anything for trump pulling an endorsement. >> phil buff what role did roy more play? >>. >> it's not clear if he's

bending donald trump's here on this. the thing to keep in mind we're still in decent distance from this election. one of the things that happened in access hollywood was there was more than a month in that. it will be interest to see if roy moore can have people brush aside the accusation of pedestrianphilia. >> it's almost the exact len of time as it was from the access hollywood tape. guys thank you for being with us. coming up, roy moore's wife say he will not step down from the race despite all the women coming forward to say he harass harassed, pursued or in one case molested them. what see and a group of alabama are saying next. are saying next. blks 's like verizon is the oil

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roy moore's wife says she and her husband are victims attacks by the media and he's not stepping down. she called him an officer and a gentleman and she in the women of alabama defended him. gary what do you care about what kayla had to say at this press conference? >> kayla roy and her husband developed a message to the mainstream media. that is we'll make statements to you but not take questions from you. kayla moore participated in a news conference on the steps of alabama state capital montgomery surrounded surrounded by woman who support roy moore. >> he is a loving father and

grandfather, most important, he is a christian. so, let me set the record straight, even after all the attacks against me, my family, against the foundation and now against my husband, for the people of alabama. >> her statement didn't go over well with accusers. one of the attorneys for accuser gloria says exit in all walks of life, all backgrounds, all occupation and profession, all races, relations, even evangelical houses of worship. we wanted to ask her, for example, what did she think of the president of the united states saying almost nothing about her husband if that's a good thing. >> but she didn't want to

answer. >> the one person who did speak was the republican governor of alabama. she made an announcement about who she will be voting for. >> that's right. governor ivy had not said anything until today. today she participated in the pardoning of the thanksgiving turkey. she will vote for roy moore, but it's interesting is she also said this about the accusers. >> i certainly have no reason to disbelieve them, the timing is curious. >> she may believe the accusers, the governor of the state of alabama, but she is voting for the accused, john. >> gary tuk man in alabama. tara, i want to start with you. roy moore's wife standing besides him, other women up

there as well. do you think that will make a difference in this race? >> no because i think you're going to find sycophants anywhere you go. it's like a political stockholm syndrome. it's not going to be incredible outside of the echo chamber they're already in. most people are probably horrified by the fact this many people in alabama are excusing away the actions of a potential chilled predator here. it's amazing to me that even with the governor of alabama said. she is literally choosing party and party trialism over morality. our founding fathers warned against this kind of triablism and dog mattic allegiance to parties. individual power rising to the

point where it lays on the ruins of public liberty. benjamin franklin said only virtuous people are exchan virtuous capable of freedom. it's shameful and dangerous in the long run. >> you're shaking your head no? >> i don't know what to say. the founding fathers talked about thely sensuousness of the press too. and the that she knows troushds judgment, i've never seen anything like this. i agree with the statement that jeff sessions started it. he said i have no reason to doubt these women. that's when being fair is, but no reason to doubt roy moore. different than al franken and bill clinton. they dmatd what they did. this guy said he didn't do it. when keilar moore stood on the steps, she said he served in vietnam for five years, so he had a life record that none of

this ever came up until twoo weeks ago. that doesn't mean we should and the people of alabama are looking up and you know what they're saying? if you keep al frank no one office and keep lecturing us, we're going to elect the man that's pro-life. >> even if he's charlatan. >> i want to tell you what the women are alabama are saying right now at least according to the latest poll which is from fox news, by the way. roy moore is trailing by 26 points among women right now. right now women are looking at that, tara, and saying they're displeased. >> absolutely because women, they're mothers, daughters, they've gone through -- women have exposed to these kinds of behavior. we've seen this with all the accusations of sexual assault that's come out from powerful

men. i'm not lecturing anything. , yes i'm making a moral judgment. until the game of politics, it's about making a judgment. it is an court of law. when i see nine accusers that are very incredible to me when contemporaneous skbnsz 50 other people that are corroborating these stories, i'm suorry, but believe these people are credible. you can't see roy moore is being raked over the coals by an unfair media. the media is to hold people accountable, and that's exactly what the "washington post" has done. you can't trod out clinton accusers and expect every to believe them and say roy moore gets a pass. in the interest of pure politics explain to me how this advances republican conservative american values of freedom and liberty? how does that do that when you

want someone this like this in office. >> when you say that women are voting, they were also saying the same thing against trump. and the people of alabama are getting pretty tired that fox news poll shows some oversampling of different things. here's what i'll say. we have a system in this country of politics. when people throw things up, you're right, we make a judgment about what we believe. i don't think you're voting in alabama. and the people of alabama are saying we've known this guy for decades and this never came up, even when he was being destroyed by the media for going ten commandments guy. i didn't interrupt you, tara. >> that's an point zbloint you're desperate to condemn people. >> you guys are the desperate ones trying to excuse away a child predator. i'm telling you you straight. women are frayed to come forward

until the recent events of other powerful men being taken down by this. so now they felt safe to come forward. he was a man of the law. these were simple people in small-town america and couldn't take ton law. and that's why they were afraid to come forward. >> senator moore should talk to us before he's sworn in. he's going to answer questions. >> why he's calling a high school girl in a trclass. breaking news to be the in the russia investigation involving jared kushner. his memory and wikileaks. t what. it's what's inside the person who opens it. ♪ give ancestrydna, the only dna test that can trace your origins to over 150 ethnic regions... ♪ ...and open up a world of possibilities.

♪ save 20% for the holidays at ancestrydna.com. man's inner voice: listening to all of this? here? talking about what hurts and property taxes, eating dry pie. ♪ woah. go over there! the kids will accept you, eventually. add experience to the table. then, make a mountain out of that reddi-wip. i'm out. made with real cream. you have your permission. reddi-wip. instant greatification. accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you,

i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. i tabut with my back paines, i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. the unpredictability of a flaree may weigh on your mind. thinking about what to avoid,

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