there you go. that's all you've got to do is just do it, jordan. >> throughout my life looking for that family, they have become my family. >> vote for cal lee or any of your favorite top ten heroes. you can do it now at cnn heroes.com. that's it for us tonight. thanks for watching. the ever more curious case of jared kushner. breaking news in the russia investigation. john berman here in for anderson tonight of the we're learning that a piece of jared kushner's testimony to congressional investigators is being called into question. it has to do with wikileaks, which published the e-mails stolen from the democratic national committee and clinton campaign chair john poe did he say sta. at the very least this turns up the heat on the president's son-in-law and could mean another date with congress. cnn's evan perez joins us now with the latest. >> well, john, jared kushner told congressional investigators that he didn't communicate with wikileaks and certainly didn't recall anyone in the trump campaign who did. but we now know from disclosures

this week that donald trump jr. sent an e-mail to kushner and others in the campaign last year to pass on information that he had learned from wikileaks and the then kushner forwarded that e-mail to hope hicks, one of the closest aides to then candidate trump and now the communications director at the white house. >> so what's the nekts step here? will he be called in for further questioning by congress? >> well, yeahment this latest revelation certainly turns up the pressure on kushner to go back to capitol hill and for more interviews and perhaps to explain himself. we heard yesterday, john, from the leaders of the senate judiciary committee who sent a public letter to kushner's lawyer saying kushner had failed to turn over documents that they know exist, and that includes information about wikileaks. the letter said that others had provided documents showing, quote, september 2016 e-mail communications to mr. kushner concerning wikileaks, which mr. kushner then forwarded to another campaign official. at the least he's going to have to go back to explain that. >> to be clear, he says he

doesn't recall being told anyone in the campaign communicated with wikileaks. don junior sent an e-mail saying he had. how is team kushner responding? >> well, we got a response from abbey lowell, kushner's attorney. he calls this a classic gotcha question. he says, quote, in over six hours of voluntary testimony mr. kushner answered all questions put to him and demonstrated that there had been no collusion between the campaign and russia. as you pointed out, the underlying thing here is that what kushner's answer is he didn't recall any. so he's not saying he didn't receive the e-mail, john. he's simply saying he didn't remember it. >> all right. stay right there. i want to come back to you shortly. first, though, more on jared kushner who certainly does seem to turn up throughout this investigation. in addition we also expect that special counsel robert mueller will be interviewing kushner as part of his probe. pamela brown has a look at exactly what kushner's role has

been so far. >> a new request from lawmakers for more of jared kushner's personal communications about russia and wikileaks. just the latest example of how kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, is involved in most of the key moments of interest to investigators. as they seek answers on russian meddling and any collusion with the trump campaign sbloo i have been fully transparent in providing all requested information. >> kushner's role is being looked at across many areas of the special counsel and congressional investigations, including rel agsz just this week he forwarded an e-mail about donald trump jr.'s communications with wikileaks to then campaign aide hope hicks. he also played a role in the firing of former fbi director james comey by supporting the decision. and cnn has learned investigators are asking witnesses about kushner's involvement in the firing that is now part of the obstruction of justice probe. he spearheaded the campaign's data analytics operation which is now under scrutiny by

investigators looking at whether the russians had any help targeting fake news during the election. russians trolls at times targeted specific states on facebook, including michigan and wisconsin, two states trump narrowly won. the campaign dbz working with the russians. during the height of the presidential campaign kushner along with done junior and then campaign chairman paul manafort took a meeting in trump tower with the russian lawyer. the done junior was told had dirt on hillary clinton. a meeting he failed to disclose several times on his security clearance form. kushner said the meeting turned out to be so insignificant that he accidentally left it off his form. kushner's parent lack of transparency has drawn the ire of democrats. >> he's definitely apparently omitting documents, and that is the reason that i have long advocated subpoenas for all of the documents. that's the only way we will know whether he's producing all of them. he certainly is doing himself no favor by withholding some,

apparently. and i think he ought to be subpoenaed to appear before the committee in open under oath at a hearing. >> kushner also held a secret meeting at trump tower with russian ambassador sergey kislyak and michael flynn during the transition where they discussed using the russian embassy's secure communications to discuss syria policy. kushner denied it was meant as a secret back channel. and another meeting is the one he had with russian banker during the transition. in his testimony to congress he denied they discussed business matters. but the bank released a statement saying business was the purpose of gorkov's trip and kushner did not initially disclose a personal e-mail account he used for official business when he was interviewed in september by the senate intelligence committee. kushner's lawyer says his client is voluntarily providing documents to mueller's team and congressional investigators and has been cooperative throughout the process. >> still so much forgotten tore

not disclosed or disclosed and then not forgotten. pamela is with us now. efb perez also. michael zeldin and john dean. john, i want to start with you. again, the breaking news tonight is that jared kushner said he did not recall any campaign contact with wikileaks despite the fact he received an e-mail from don junior had a conversation he had with wikileaks and jared kushner forwarded that e-mail on. so how bigful a jam do you think jared kushner is in tonight? >> well, the i don't recall defense is not a very good one if you actually do know what you're talking about and just don't want to remember or don't want to refresh your recollection. it was tried during watergate. bob hald man the former white house chief of staff went to jail on that specifically. he was convicted of perjury for claiming he couldn't recall. and juries also react to this representative i don't recall because these things get flushed up if somebody gets really

pressed in a grand jury. so i think he'd better start refreshing his recollection because he does any more testimony because he's hurting himself badly. >> you know, michael zeldin, counselor, when does this become perjury? when does i do not recall again and again and again become perjury or is this just some kind of golden ticket, not just for jared kushner, for other people involved in this investigation like jeff sessions. >> right. so john dean said it right, which is that if i don't know is seen as a purposeful lie to avoidancing the question, in hald man's case there were the take place. he knew what was there. he actually remembered, but he used i don't recall as a means of lying. that's potentially and it was in hald man's case actually perjury. on a one question question, do you recall receiving any information about wikileaks and the answer is i don't recall, on a one off that's not going to amount to perjury and it's going to be incumbent upon the

questioners to ask more questions. in this area of false statements and perjury and obstruction of justice, you really need to see patterns of behavior that are based on specific questions or specific requests for documentation that are properly crafted, that the individual who has to respond or answer did so with intent to mislead. so in this case i don't know yet that we're there with kushner. for example, if the question put to kushner was did you have any contacts with russians, that's one question. if it's did you have any contacts with russians, russian elm saers or people affiliated with russia, that's a different question, and they each would require a different answer. and anyone who has been a defense lawyer knows you advise your client to answer the questions that have been asked of you and not volunteer more information. and so we may be in that situation where abbey lowell is doing a good job in representing his client's best interests. and if people want this

information, they just have to do a better job of asking for it. >> michael, the fact, though, that he had all those nondisclosure issues of things he was supposed to disclose, does it make it harder to argue that this was a one off? >> well, yes, in some respect. the more there is a pattern, the harder it is to argue i don't remember is a truthful answer. with respect to the sf 86 form, that form is a form that asks for either aactive answers. you fill it out. you remember more things. you fill it out. i remember when i was filling it out and it asked me what foreign travel i had in a ten-year period. i had to go get my passport, lk at all the stafrms in my passport and start filling them in. and then you submit the form and you say oh, my goodness, i remember i went to this place and i traveled to an official passport and you amend the form. the form says you can amend and can amend up until the time

you're interviewed by fbi. so it doesn't necessarily itself reflect dishonesty, but you then have to build a mosaic and say do all these things fit in or are they just independent mistakes. >> one other item here and your story lays it out well is jared kushner has been in a lot of these places that are in question including as part of that meeting at the trump tower with the russian lawyer who promised done junior dirt on hillary clinton. well, we've learned that the special counsel robert mueller wants to interview the guy who i guess is a british citizen who helped arrange that meeting, correct? >> yeah. that's right. he's a british publicly cyst. he was really the organizer of this meeting. robert mueller's team has been in touch with bob gauge to set up a time where he can come to the united states. right now he's in thailand where he can come to the united states and be interviewed by mueller's team. and rob goldstone really is a central figure when it comes to that trump tower meeting with jared kushner, don junior, paul

manafort and that russian attorney who goldstone said had incriminating information on hillary clinton. and he of course as you'll recall also said that the russian government was trying to help the trump campaign. so of course mueller's team would want to learn more about what was behind that? goldstone has told people around him he was just goosing up the language, exaggerating it to get the meeting. but mueller's team will want to get to the bottom of it to see if there was some broader conspiracy and get his account of what what happened in that meeting. >> one other interesting part here is that you have jared kushner who is he center of investigation. there are a lot of questions for him, but there are also a lot of questions for donald trump jr. ask there is a question about whether or not their interests copy side here. >> right. and i think that's been one of the questions that certainly first came up back in june when we started asking about the trump tower meeting, john. i think when we first approached it was we were interested in telling the story about jared

kushner amending his sf-86 to report the existence of that meeting, which as you remember, nobody knew about. and so then suddenly the administration or the white house came up with a new answer that really put it all as don junior's fault. so as you say, you know, i think they have a little bit of a diverging interest here. and also, i think, when you get questioned about this, it's going to be interesting to see how these men answer the questions about how this meeting came about, what happened at the meeting. i think certainly these are questions that robert mueller will be interested in looking at the answers and see how they differ. and i think that that's going to really be important to see how this all plays out. >> all right, guys. we're going to continue this conversation in just a moment. also, later president trump is still staying silent on the accusations against u.s. senate candidate roy moore, despite laying into senator al franken for his sexual miss kaukt. we'll get into that when 360 continues. nice man cave!

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he withheld. so let's bring back our panel. pamela i want to start with you. the nose that jared kushner didn't fully comply with the request from congress for documents. do we know if they're circling back with anyone who has been asked for information. >> not publicly that we know of. this seems to be the first example where you see a committee releasing a public letter calling on someone who is part of the russia investigation to provide missing documents as they say. what's interesting here is that the request to jared kushner and his tell me was just as broad to them as it was to other people, such as don junior. and the reason they know -- they knew that some of the missing documents that kushner's team hadn't turned over some of these documents was because others such as don junior had turned over everything. and so that is how they knew. but abbey lowell, the attorney for jared kushner just sent a letter to the judiciary committee essentially admonishing them for going through the media rather than going to him directly for these

documents, for this request. but it certainly raises questions if there had been two document productions prior to this, why this hadn't all been turned over. as mike alzeldin pointed out, though, it could be intentional in tell us of not wanting to hand over things voluntarily that go beyond what the specific request is. >> all right. john dean, obviously we're talking about the president's son-in-law here, not just a senior adviser. and his son donald trump, jrn. and it begs the question, do you think the president of the united states, if they faced any serious legal trouble, would hesitate to pardon them? >> well, i would -- the natural instinct, of course, would be to do so. he might also let the process play out and just make sure they didn't go to jail. that's what george bush did with scooter liby, you'll recall. we're really early to be thinking about pardons. i can't believe that his counsel hasn't told him not to send a signal because it would be obstruction of justice to offer a pardon at this early stage.

that's one of the things that nixon was charged with before the congress in his impeachment. so i think it's praetd early to be thinking pardons. >> it will be interesting to see how much history they know if they go back and look at everything you went through back then. michael, i want to play a clip of sound today. this is attorney general jeff sessions. he was talking to the federal society which is a keskt legal group in washington. watch this. >> but i just was thinking, you know, i should want to ask you is ambassador kislyak in the room? before i get started here. any russians? [applause] anybody been to russia? got a cousin in russia or something? >> so, michael, his audience of conservative lawyers they loved the joking.

the question is does robert mueller think it's so funny that the attorney general of the united states who may not be connected to this overall investigation is making these kind of jokes? >> i don't think it's going to affect mueller's thinking about this one way or the other. if mueller is looking at attorney general sessions for possibly lying under oath, i don't even know if that's completely within his mandate, then i don't think the fact that he made a joke at the federalist society is going to matter one wit to him. however, as an appearance matter, i don't think it would have been smart to advice the attorney general to make fun of essentially his laps of memory. remember, he didn't remember a hundred and something times over three days of testimony, and that just doesn't create a good appearance, and it makes it seem as if he's thumbing -- putting the thumb in the eye of congress. i just don't think it's smart for him to have done that. but, you know, it was a cute joke. >> well, if you want to extend a joke, if anyone in the audience had answered yes to russia, the real question is would the

attorney general remember it later on if he was testifying about it, because that appears to have been the problem here. efb perez, last question this subject to you. do you have any sense that the attorney general is part of this investigation by the special counsel or that he will be questioned ultimately? >> i think we do expect that at some point sessions is going to be asked some questions, especially in particular about the firing of james comey, which we know is part of what robert mueller is looking into. we know that one of the questions is whether or not there was any attempt at obstruction of justice. after all, the only reason why robert mueller's office exists is because comey was fired. if you remember, james comey, the fbi director. so we expect that elbe. so far sessions has not been asked and just in reaction to what he was laughing about federalist society if you'll remember hillary clinton was joking about with a rag, wiping away of the server, things like that and people didn't find that

funny either and certainly the fbi didn't. so i think that's the context that i think even people who are looking at the russia investigation right now are looking at that joke. >> jeff sessions is laughing today at least. we'll see how long that lasts. guys, appreciate it. thank you one and all. the president has no problem weighing in on al frank's sexual misconduct. so why is it radio silence on the allegations against roy moore, not to mention the allegations against donald trump. keeping them honest, next. i'm craving something we're missing. the ceramides in cerave. they help restore my natural barrier, so i can lock in moisture and keep us protected. we've got to have each other's backs and fronts. cerave. what your skin craves.

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keej them honest tonight, silence can say a lot. that plus hypocrisy, most of all. once again today mum was the word from president trump and the white house on alabama u.s. senate candidate roy moore. to be sure white house spokes woman sarah huckabee sanders today called the sexual misconduct allegations against him serious. but that's not the question. everyone knows it's serious that

a woman says she was sexually molested by moore when she was 14. it's serious when another woman says she was sexually assaulted when she was 16. the question isn't whether the claims are seriousment it's do you believe them and if you do, is roy moore worthy of being a u.s. senator. late today alabama's governor weighed in saying she stands with moore. she is choosing his platform over alleged pedophilia. you can agree or disagree with her decision. many will, but it is a decision, as well as a commitment to be held accountable for. now, the president has made no such commitment. for eight days nothing beyond a throw away statement such as mere allegations and if they are through. no further statements, no on camera comments, not even a tweet. just a picture of the president not tweeting about anything. however, he has tweeted about democratic senator al franken's misconduct with broadcaster leeian tweed enincluding groping her as she slemt.

the picture is really bad, he wrote. speaks a thousand wordsment and to think that just last week he was lecturing anyone who would listen about sexual harassment and respect for women. he limits his outage to franken but stays silent on moore. which is odd odd when you consider all the leading republicans now lining up to condemn roy moore and say that they believe his accusers. it is odd when you consider all the democrats condemning al franken asian after his apology yesterday. put it all together and any notion that the two parties are protecting their own melts. extraordinary moment. yet instead of rising to that moment, a bipartisan moment we should add the president of the united states, the head of the republican party and traditionally at least a moral example for the country has shrunk from it while taking shots at a member of the

opposing party. so why franken and not moore? >> well, al franken was a brand-new news story yesterday and the president weighed in as he does on the news of the day. the roy moore story is eight days old and he put out a statement during his asia trip on that. and since then our prosecutes has spoken on behalf of the president saying that he believes the people of alabama will sort out what to do with roy moore and that election. >> so the roy moore story is old news, but al franken is not. oh, wait. it would explain why he stopped talking months ago about his election victory. oh, wait. the fact is old news or new, big news or small, this president weighs in on it, so the idea that he can't be border with a stale old news out of alabama is hard to believe, especially when, as you've been seeing, there have been significant developments nearly every day, sometimes every hour. so is it partisan ship, hypocrisy or both? you can decide for yourself.

however, is it personal? that is hard to deny. our reporting suggests a powerful reason why the president cannot bring himself to say an alleged molester, attacker and reputed shopping mall lurker should not be alabama's next senator. 13 reasons he won't say it, in fact. at least 13 women who have gone on the record with claims about donald trump's past behavior. jessica leads, mindy mcgill va, kristen anderson, cathy heller, jill hearth, jessica drake, ka reigna virginia and one woman who has yet to be nailed. so the president says they are all lying, all of them. so if you're keeping score at home, he is fine saying franken is guilty and bill clinton and that he's not surprised about harvey weinstein, but he is willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to two notable individuals, roy moore and then the man caught on tape saying this.

>> you know, i'm automatic lg attracted to beautiful -- i just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. and when you're a star they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the -- do anything. >> let's bring in our panel. joined now by david gur again -- david, first to you. the president weighing in as he did over night. what does it accomplish for him other than making him look like a hip credit. >> his team really think we're stupid, that they don't notice, that they don't see the hypocrisy, that they don't really care. i think eats got it absolutely wrong. people care increasingly. women are coming forward cure agesel all across the country on these issues. americans are looking for leadership out of the white house, especially moral leadership.

they're not getting it. the president is taking an enormous gamble and that is if he can just stay silent long enough, get up in there in that election and roy moore can pull it off and get a vehicle to her, then this will all go away. it's one of these classic cases that americans debt it and they do care. >> so baby phillip, there was a remarkable line of push back from the white house today. sarah huckabee sanders said the president hasn't admitted doing anything wrong. senator franken has. that's a pretty giant loophole that they've created here considering the "access hollywood" tape. >> that's right. and i think it's also a little bit -- it's almost a little too convene. i mean, there are some differences in this case. there is a photo of al franken doing something that most people agree is pretty horrific. and there's no such photograph of donald trump doing that. but there is an audiotape as you just played which. white house seems to believe can be easily dismissed. i think there are a lot of other

people out there who watch that tape and they say this is someone who admitted to this kind of behavior, which indicates that it's not something that he at the time, at least, believed was out of order. the white house is also maintaining that these women who have accused the president of wrongdoing are still lying, even after all of this time, even after the promises of lawsuits. they have a blanket statement that these women are just liars and that they're -- they have provided virtually no evidence to suggest that they are. so they just don't want to have the conversation, and i think the president is very drawn to images. he believes it's really easy to take al franken to task over it because al franken admit that he did something wrong. and he knows that it's a little bit harder to do it when it comes to some of the specific accusations that these women have made against him. i think they're using that as an opportunity to make this in some

ways a partisan attack. >> there a political calculation here for the president? he just doesn't the to lose the seat in alabama and or he doesn't want to anger at base? >> it seems pretty clear that he and his party would prefer to hold on to the seat in alabama. for a while they were thinking moore could step down and put a write in campaign. the quote that you have from sarah huckabee sanders is really revel la to her. we are making this a political choice. if we don't say anything, we're going to get away with this. donald trump has essentially folk you had on his base from the day he started running. and his base loves to defend skmim to hate on democrats. and so what he is doing is he is defending himself and he's saying al franken is a bad guy and his base continues to eat it up. >> is he providing a road map for anyone accused of sexual misconduct? you literally cowrote the book on how donald trump beat hillary clinton ziet the fact that the "access hollywood" tape exists. so wouldn't be he think that

denial is the best way to get through this. >> and that's that's the thing. people knew about the "access hollywood" tape and the accusers and they voted for him anyway. i think he's thinking if i could get through that, if i could whip the election against hillary clinton who had this entire apparatus work not guilty her favor, i can sort of squeak by now. it also is a strategy where he is kind of this dovetails with his whole anti-media strategy. the washington most is out to get me. and so i think this also works in his favor to kind of back roy moore in many ways because it is kind of what he has been saying all along about himself. >> well, we'll see how it continues to play out. we're going to get a break in now. next on the president's relative silence on roy moore after lashing out at al franken.

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president trump's willingness to condemn senator al franken despite his unwillingness to join more than a dozen republican lawmakers who are condemning senate candidate roy moore. this is what the president said back on november 11th on his trip to asia. the president said i basically put out a statement which is obvious so i'll stick with statement for now but i'll have further comment as we go down the road. i have to get back in the country to see what's happening. well, the president has been back in the country now for a few days and has certainly seen what is happening in the news because he does watch t. yet still no statement. let's bring back our panel. david, you know, it's what, what is today? today is november 17th. the special election in alabama is december 12th. i stifrmel don't believe that he can last until december 12th without saying something out loud on this. and he set himself up for a whole lot of problems. every time the press seize him they're going to press him on this. >> well, i think that's right, john.

look, i think i basically agree. he's taking a gamble. it's a gamble he took on the hollywood access tape. just shrug it off. the voters stuck with him. he won the election of the he's trying to do the same thing here. if he slugs it off long enough, that's old news. i don't want to get into that. we ought to talk about something else. we just passed a big tax bill. that's what's important. if he just slugs it off and gets through, roy moore wins, that will be a gamble that paid off. i do think, though, that times have changed since the "access hollywood" tape. at that time people stuck with him because they had great hope that he would deliver jobs, all sorts of promises, obamacare and all the rest. and now that they're not seeing that happen and he's not getting good marks, i don't think people are as anywhere near as hopeful or patient with him as they were then. >> he poke the bear last night with the frank instien. it's one thing not commenting on moore, but when you're going to comment on franken, you kroet a

whole bunch of new problems. >> right. he has to get tax reform done. he's off message again. this is taking off off the russia story line, on to the sexual assault story hype. something that he is desperate to avoid. i talked to a couple of republicans earlier today who say it's really obvious what he's trying to do. he's trying to once again distract and, you know -- he doesn't want to have to talk about himself and what he's gone through. this is a problem for him and he knows that. >> abbey, let me bring you into this discussion. how much did mitch mcconnell and other republican leaders who were out on a limb here with the party, how much do they want the president involved here? would they like to see him make a stand? >> i think they would. they very much want trump to kind of show the way here. partly because despite the fact that trump didn't endorse roy moore in the primary, trump's voters are behind roy moore. trump former chief strategist steve bannon is a driving force this that campaign. and i think mcconnell would

really like for trump to step in and say something. it's not clear that that would make a difference for the reasons i just outlined. trump's lack of endorsement in the primary did not stop roy moore from winging. so it's unclear where that's going. we do know that mcconnell and his staff are trying to put together a list of options for the president, trying to give him some indication of what the option are. and frankly, not many of those options are particularly good. so, you know, i think they're in a bind. maybe they're looking for a way out. but it might be wishful thinking that someone who persisted and won despite the fact that trump did not endorse him is going to suddenly step down or do anything in response to trump pulling an endorsement. >> phil, what role does steve bannon play in all of this? >> right. it's a very fair question. steve bannon sort of hitched his wagon to roy moore as he likes to say it happened the other way around. bannon came in and he took credit for his primary victory. so we know that steve bannon still talks to trump with some

regulator, so it's not clear if he's bending donald trump's ear on this the thing to keep in mind, though, is we're still a pretty decent distance from this election. if you look at one of the things that happened in the "access hollywood" tape there was still another month in that campaign. and during that month people's attention turned. it went to the comey letter, wikileaks are releases. it will be interesting to see if roy moore can actually have people brush aside alleged pedophilia over the next month, but there's a lot of time left. donald trump if he can bide his time for a short period of time, he will be in the clear. >> it's almost the exact length of the time as it was for the "access hollywood" tape. we'll see how it plays out. thanks. i really appreciate it. coming up, roy moore's wife says he absolutely will not step down from the race sfiet all the women coming forward to say he sexually harassed pursued or in one case molested them when they were teenagers. what she and a group of republican women in alabama are saying next. disease.

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roy moore's wife says she and her husband are victims of attacks by the media and he's not stepping down. she held a press conference today. she called him an officer and a gentleman and she and a group of republican women in alabama defended him. gary tuck man is in best of my memory ham. what did kala moore have to say at this press conference today? >> well, john, kayla moore and her husband have clearly developed a message for the so-called mainstream media and that is we will make statements to you but we will not take questions from you and that was the trend that continued today. kayla moore participating in a news conference on the steps of the alabama state capitol surrounded by women who support roy moore. the wife strongly defended the husband. >> he is a loving father and a

grandfather. but most important, he is a christian. so let me set the record straight. even after all the attacks against me, against my family, against the foundation and now he will not stop fighting for the people of alabama. >> reporter: he statement did not go over well with the accusers. one of the attorneys for accuser gloria says exists in all walks of life, all backgrounds, all occupations and professions, all races, all religions, even evangelical houses of worship. we wanted to ask her, for example, what did she think of donald trump, the president of the united states saying almost

nothing about her husband, does she think that's a good thing, but she didn't want to answer. she got in the car and drove off. >> one person who did speak today was the republican governor of alabama. she made an announcement about who she will be voting for. >> that's right. governor ivy had not said anything until today. today she participated in the pardoning of the thanksgiving turkey. let's say it's not only the turkey that's happy tonight. mr. moore may be happy to, because she said because she wants to the support the republican party, she will vote for roy moore, but what's interesting about it is she also said this about the accusers. >> i certainly have no reason to disbelieve any of them. the timing is curious, but at the same time i have no reason to disbelieve them. >> reporter: so what it comes down to is this, she may believe the accusers, the governor of the state of alabama, but she is voting for the accused, john. >> gary tuchman in alabama.

with me ed martin and tara setmire. tara, i want to start with you. roy moore's wife standing besides him, other women up there as well. do you think that will make a difference in this race? >> no because i think you're going to find sycophants that follow people everywhere you go. it's like a political stockholm syndrome. so i don't really think that's going to be credible outside of the echo chamber that they're already in. most people, objective observers looking at this, are probably horrified by the fact this many people in alabama are excusing away the actions of a potential chilled predator here. it's amazing to me that even what the governor of alabama said. she is literally choosing party and party trialism over morality. our founding fathers warned against this kind of triablism and warned against this dogmatic

allegiance to parties. george washington warned of individual power rising to the point where it lays on the ruins of public liberty. benjamin franklin said only virtuous capable of freedom. i don't see how any of this excuse making for the idea of maintaining a republican in office is good for america or for republicans. this is coming from me a life long republican. it's shameful and dangerous in the long run. >> you're shaking your head no? >> i don't know what to say. the founding fathers talked about the licenciousness of the press too. that was something that was written about last week. in the sense that rushing to judgment, i've never seen anything like this. i agree with the statement that jeff sessions started it. he said i have no reason to doubt these women. that's when being fair is, but no reason to doubt roy moore. different than al franken and bill clinton. they admitted what they did. this guy said he didn't do it. when keilar moore stood on the steps, she said he served in vietnam for five years, so he

had a life record that none of this ever came up until two weeks ago. that doesn't mean we shouldn't have some respect for the victims and what they're saying. but the idea you sit there and lecture that you think this man is so bad is really breathtaking. the people of alabama are looking up and you know what they're saying? if you keep al franken in office and keep lecturing us, we're going to elect the man that's pro-life. >> even if he's charlatan. >> i want to tell you what the women in alabama are say ing right now at least according to the latest poll which is from fox news, by the way. roy moore is trailing by 26 points among women right now. right now women are looking at that, tara, and saying they're displeased. >> sure. absolutely. because women, you know, they're mothers, daughters, they've gone through -- women are exposed to these kinds of behavior. we've seen this with all the

accusations and admitting of sexual assault that's come out from powerful men. i'm not lecturing anything. yes, i'm making a moral judgment. in the game of politics and the political arena, it is about making a judgment. it's not a court of law. when i see nine accusers that are very incredible to me when contemporaneous witnesses and 50 other people that are corroborating these stories, i'm sorry, but i believe these people are credible. and you can't have it both ways. you can't say oh, well i don't have any reason to disbelieve the victims but then turn around and say that roy moore is being raked over the coals by some unfair media. the media is there to hold people accountability, and that's what "the washington post" has done. you can't trod out clinton accusers and expect every to believe them and say roy moore gets a pass. in the interest of pure politics explain to me how this advances republican conservative american values of freedom and liberty? how does that do that when you

put someone this immoral in office? >> can i answer the first part? it's important for the viewers to know. just like after the video, the polling is not going to make sense for a long time, if ever. the same thing against trump. and the people of alabama are getting pretty tired that fox news poll shows some oversampling of different things. here's what i'll say. we have a system in this country of politics. when people throw things up, you're right, we make a judgment about what we believe. but you know what, you're not -- i don't think you're voting in alabama. and the people of alabama are saying we've known this guy for decades and this never came up, even when he was being destroyed by the media for being the ten commandments guy. >> but he didn't -- >> i didn't interrupt you, tara. >> that's an important point. >> you're desperate to condemn

people. >> you guys are the desperate ones trying to excuse away a child predator. i'm telling you you straight. women were afraid to come forward until the recent events of other powerful men being taken down by this. so now they felt safe to come forward. he was a man of the law. these were simple people in small-town america and couldn't take on the law. you see how these have been destroyed, and that's why they were afraid to come forward. i'm glad they had the cure ray jousness to do it now. >> senator moore should talk to us before he's sworn in. he's going to answer questions. >> why he's calling a high school girl in class. >> hopefully we'll have a chance to talk about this again guys in a couple days. breaking news tonight in the russia investigation involving jared kushner. his memory and wikileaks. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... ...isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently.

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