breaking news top of the hour. it's also a piece of a picture of a president appearing to disengage from certain realities he himself once acknowledged and even apologized for. he apologized for what he said about the hollywood tape about grabbing women's general tallahassee and getting away with it. now according to "the new york times" he's been casting doubt with at least three people, whether it's his voice on that tape. also there's no reporting the president readopted his old doubts about former president obama's birth certificate. and the breaking news from jim acosta, the president believes

he would have had one more vote if he didn't abandon those beliefs. david gergen and former obama senior adviser, david axelrod. >> how concerned are you the president of the united states seems to be operating in a different reality when it comes to any number of topics? >> yeah, i am concerned, anderson, because i sat next to the oval office for a couple of years. i saw the kinds of issues that come across that devsk. if the person who sits there is delusional, that poses all kinds of very, very frightening scenarios. when you read particularly the things that he's saying in private, the denial of his own comments that were on tape, the rehashing of the discredited birther theory, going back to the votes in the election and

the notion that he actually won the popular vote, these are delusional comments. it is very, very unsettling to think that the president of the united states would harbor them. >> david gergen, they're saying this is no different that all his words shape his own myths? >> it's such nonsense. listen, i don't think we know for certain. there could be other reasons behind this. this could be totally a diversion so we're not talking about the tax bill every night. could be a diversion because something's been triggered by mueller and he's unhappy as

"new york times" has suggested. the most serious question is whether he's losing his grip. that is very dangerous as david axelrod said. both of us have been there at the white house. the president occasionally has to make really, really tough decisions that are a matter of life and death and you want a man with a clear mind. what i've been wondering is whether his family and some of the top people in the white house ought to be conferring among themselves some sort of intervention and really try to help him. it's so important to the country. >> david, i just want to drill down with you on this. you're suggesting -- you think that things have -- there are questions about his, i don't know, his frame of mind and his family should do an intervention or think about an intervention?

>> i believe, anderson, there's sufficient questions. we don't have answers. those of us on the outside really don't know what's going on as well as we should. but if you look at the overall pattern of behaviors and the questions that arise, and the seriousness of this, then you have to say, should people in the white house be trying to help him? and if it requires an intervention on their judgment, yes, you have to do that. >> david axelrod, maybe some supporters say in the not traditional presidential behavior, but does it really rise to the level that, you know, the word intervention is being used? >> that's why i made the distinction between his private comments and what he's done publicly. he's had a series of provocative, really despicable tweets in the last 24 hours that

seem unhinged but could be written off to some strategic objective. but the fact that he in private conversations earnestly declares things that are just not so, somehow these of any kind conspiracy theories are reality, that's very, very unsettling. >> there are people who say this is what he's done all his career as a real estate developer. he sort of invented his own myth and talked about his building being the biggest buildings. couldn't this be an extension of what he's always done except we're all seeing it up close and the stakes are that much higher because you have the possibility of war in north korea? >> well, honestly i didn't care very much about what he did as a

real estate developer. now he has nuclear weapons and is the most powerful man on the planet. it does matter if he's delusional or not. that's not a strike that gem to say that tape that you heard my voice on that i admitted was my voice and that i apologized for, i actually don't think that was my voice. s, by the way, in all of this i'm wondering where's billy bush who was standing there when the conversation took place, lost his job and apologized for the conversation, i wonder what he has to say about the president's recollections on this. no, i don't think, anderson, this is not sort of within the realm, even of trump lore. >> anderson, in that situation they don't need to make a big deal or do anything publicly. but when a president is having trouble, you normally have his

doctor talk to him, understand him, what's going on. that happens regularly in presidents, especially as people get older. those on the outside need to say if he needs help, he should get it. it would be good for him and the country. >> do you remember the candidate trump? do you remember his doctor's letter? >> yes. did you want the gaasentrologist to make these judgments? i don't know. >> that's a point. >> david gergen and david axelrod, thank you. david axelrod's guest is tom hanks saturday night 7:00 eastern. i want to bring in the panel. is this just unusual presidential behavior or is this something to be concerned about? >> it's obviously something to be concerned about but i don't know that it's any crazier than

insisting barack obama wasn't born in the united states. if you go back through his various conspiracy theories, i think that this is something that he's done for a long time. >> which he said to be relitigating with some people? >> right. but i think he has long had a distorted reality. i think that this idea that he sees things differently, that he can change what really happened, i feel like this is consistent with who he's been and it seems a little more extreme because he's the president of the united states and he's -- you know. it's so dangerous. it does seem consistent. >> kirsten, i think he's back sliding. he did come back out and say, okay, president obama was born in america, period. now he's questioning. he apologized for the "access hollywood" tape.

i would have a slightly different plan than gergen. it's not the family's responsibility. it's not. he has a complex family. i wouldn't put that burden on them. this general kelly's job. he's the white house chief of staff. there's precedent for this in 1986 during the iran-contra. baker asked a staff foreign follow him around, just check, do you think he's up to the job? the staffer did and said, yes, he's fine. no need to look at the 25th amendment. that's not a problem. that sort of thing should be going on on the staff level right now. general kelly is a patriot. he owes it to the constitution, not any particular man who holds the office but to the office itself. >> it should be particularly every republican in washington. there were two senate republicans today, cory gardner was interviewed by wolf blitzer.

i didn't see them and then he says he's the best president i ever served. this is ridiculous. we're getting into possibly very dangerous confrontations with foreign leaders. it's on everybody because i do think the "access hollywood" apology and the dropping of the birther conspiracy during the campaign shows when he is surrounded, he will back down, but he has to be surrounded to have no other way out. and it can be done, but it takes force. >> i'm a lawyer. i work in the world of evidence and facts. right now we keep saying apparent around this table today. we don't have any facts. but everyone says these a apparent comments he's made. no one's talking about context or voracity. it's the chief of staff's job to have these discussions with the president, and until the white house comes out and says these

are positions of the white house or president , that hasn't happened. >> if the president is publicly saying to three people i don't think that's me on the "access hollywood" tape and if he's bringing up the barack obama citizenship, that would be of concern to you? >> it would be a concern, but the white house isn't saying that. they're saying the opposite. they're saying they're taking the same position during the campaign, which was those issues were acknowledged and in some cases, apologized for. >> i'm not hearing any of these pushback on the "access hollywood" tape or on president obama and the birther issue. that's not to say it's not being said. that's not what i'm hearing from a large group of people. to the question of whether or not he's competent to be president and axelrod and gergen were talking about doing an intervention. we remember his doctor patch adams who said he was under the best health of all i don't think

it's so much a competency issue. the president will push fake videos and pictures, that's the problem. i think that is something we really need to get to the bottom of and demanding factual, accurate information. >> michael, you profiled him when he was citizen trump and a real estate developer. this is from everybody we've talked to, this is what he did back then, create his own reality. >> it's a life-long pattern. it goes back to the 1970s. but i think he's getting worse. and that may be we're exposed more to what he says, more people hear it. >> it matters more to people. >> it matters more, matters to the world. before it didn't matter to the world. it mattered to some bankers who lost money and investors and all kinds of folks who got hurt by his distorsions.

but this is a distorted leader of the free world. there are facts here. the tweets you were talking about of these conspiracy theories, ideas, these are facts. and i think the white house record of distortion and lies in going back to try and correct what the president said in the past, those are facts. so we're now in a situation where we're being led by a person who denies reality. this starts being self-defeating, and then it becomes self-destructive. it becomes destructive for the company. >> the timing of all this and the speculation just calls the whole thing into question. >> he's reflecting on the 2016 elections preparing for what he's going to do in 2020. his messaging with regards to democrats has been very good. he's looking for a narrative to carry into 2018. >> it's pure speculation.

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because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. -♪ a little bit o' soul, yeah behavior we're seeing from the president fits in his view a pattern that goes back decades, denying reality, not backing down, not apologizing. >> i think you have to think what this presidency we keep thing there's a bottom where there's a limit where he's not going to go further in terms of his conduct. there's no bottom. he will just keep doing this. if you look at it in this context, it's not surprising, but it's hard to wrap your mind around. this is one of the few times we heard him -- he apologized and acknowledged it was him and there's no kernel of truth he can point to. what he's been doing his entire career is trying to will certain

facts as he wants them to be into existence. >> there is an alternative theory which is there as strategy for him to -- assuming their reporting is correct and i have no reason to doubt it, particularly maggie and her team. is there some strategy in bringing up the obama birth certificate again or the "access hollywood" tape. >> there could be. i believe he's got a strategy. >> or to distract from north korea. >> the tax bill is actually hugely unpopular, and yet it's likely to pass. more attention on the tax bill that should be bad for passing the tax bill, so there is perhaps a strategy here. but when you combine that from reports from people closest to

him, because the secretary of state who called our president a moron, general mcmaster was reported in a private conversation to call him an idiot. these are his closest aides. i'm shifting. it's crazy in a sense but i want to believe he's just dishonest, not delusional. >> i think he has bigoted views. we saw him talking about mexicans as rapists. this is in fact the problem that's facing the world, if you let muslims into your country they're going to smash statues of the virgin mary as if this is a national threat in the u.k. or the united states. i think he believes that. and so he has no problem tweeting this out. he doesn't see a problem with it. you see sarah sanders defending it, this is what we have to be

worried about, someone attacking somebody on crutches. this isn't even -- this is not a real threat in the world. >> radical islamic terrorism is a threat. maybe it wasn't the best timing and the best choice, because he should be talking about tax reform and talking about north korea, particularly tax reform because we're going to get a win there. >> i think it's important to look a little bit at history because i do think trump is not delusional. he's being very politically savvy. these issues are good for republicans. the same way anti-communism was god for mac-- good for mccarthy. millions of millions people tuned in and watched and it was the biggest show on earth and it

was a great issue for republicans. ultimately he was centered. he died in office and it went away but it paved the way for nixon. he tapped into an anti-immigrant, resentment, fear, and he's trying to do that with the fears of radical islam. >> he talks about real crimes at the border, real issues. >> again, he's tweeting out videos from a far-right british hate group. >> he's tapping into the threat, but he has no evidence. >> he's president of muslims who live in this country. our military policy, we are supporting muslims in iraq. we're fighting side by side with them, we've been fighting side by side with muslims in afghanistan. >> we're not fighting side by side as islamic terrorists.

>> but he's labeling everyone with the same broad brush. >> we'll give him credit that this is what his base loves. the birthers were coming out of the wood works to attach themselves to a candidate and he wants to continue to give read meat when it comes to the muslim ban. >> david duke tweeted thank god for trump today. >> in his mind he's tweeting out these fake videos and they're over here chewing on this read meat. and we're talking about if you want to fight immigration and secure our borders and fund the military, let's talk about that. don't tweet these fake videos because his team is saying he just wanted to talk about national security and immigration because democrats are for amnesty. if that's twheepwhat he wants t about, let's focus. >> the retweets of videos from a

far-right group known as britain first, when a british memory of member of parliament was stabbed, he apparently yelled britain first. we'll talk more about that coming up. only fleet enemas feature the lubricated gentle glide tip for comfortable relief in minutes. not hours. and an ez-squeeze bottle for gentle, simple, fast relief. fleet enemas. the start of fast relief.

today we started talking about the president of the united states retweeted three violent disturbing videos one showing a group beating killing people, another attacking a statue of the virgin mary. the president retweeted the videos from the twitter account of a far-right group in britain called britain first. white extremists david duke was thrilled today and said thank god for trump, he tweeted. theresa may was not thrilled. through a spokesperson she said the president was wrong, quote, britain first seeks to divide communities. they cause anxiety to law-abiding people. british people overwhelmingly interest of justice rhetoric of the far right which the the

antithesis of what this country represents. >> theresa may, don't focus on me, focus on the terrorism that's taking place within the united kingdom, we're doing just fine. aaron hatch defending the prime minister on twitter and to the prime minister's point, the britain first is a radical group. last year joe cox a member of british parliament was murdered by a man reportedly shouting britain first assist he shot and stabbed her. i spoke with joe cox's husband earlier tonight. he's some of what he said. >> i think we probably got used to a degree of absurdity, outrageous retweets and tweets from the president. but i think thflt like it was a different order. here he was retweeting a felon, somebody that was convicted of religiously aggravated harassment of an organization

that is a hate-driven organization on the extreme fringes, the far, far right of british politics. this is like the president retweeting the ku klux klan. united states is the greatest ally of our country providing a microphone to those voices, everybody, no matter what your political persuasion has been shocked by that. >> one of those tweets, by the way, the president retweeted showing the migrant was a dutch citizen, facts matter. back with the panel. ki ? >> it's absolutely shocking but he's done things like this before. he's tweeted alt-right people. i think that he believes -- sarah huckabee sanders defended

him saying this is a threat we face, i guess meaning radical islam. i don't know a lot of people that would disagree, but with that's not what the videos showed. it just showed allegedly individual allegedly muslim committing some sort of violence in the same way he has talked about mexicans picking out a random mexican person who's done something bad and then putting that on all mexicans and putting this on all muslims. and so it's inherently racist. >> where did had he put it on all muslims in that tweet? i don't think it's there. >> what's the point of tweeting out three videos showing muslims committing a crime? what is that proving. >> radical islamic terrorists are two bad things. >> hold on. it was a video of somebody breaking the statue of virgin

mary. is that what we're afraid of, smashing statues of the virgin mary? >> the bad things that radical islamic terrorism represents. it's not the best choice of videos, without a doubt, they are fake videos. but for you to say he's characterizing all muslims that way. >> bad choice by the originator of the video. >> you think the originator is an internet troll, isn't it like a doubly bad choice for the freaking president of the united states to pick up what some internet troll did. >> that internet troll video san example without question, but for someone to then turn around

and say that he's characterizing all muslims that way is flat out wrong. >> where is he praising muslims who get attacked. >> what is the point of that? you can't say radical islam. that's not what rallied islamists do. >> the right wing white guy allegedly ran down and murdered heather higher. he did call for an investigation of the right wing -- >> he said they're very fine people. >> one of the things also in the interview you did with mr. cox, he said was very compelling and really right on. by the president retweeting these videos, it gave validation to anyone who wanted to push messages of hate against muslims. if the president can do it, then anyone else will do. and this group is an anti-muslim, anti-immigrant hate group over in britain, and he basically gave them validation. for her to come out and david duke to come out and thank the

president, that sends a really bad message of hate. >> no question these folks are horrible people. >> when the president is singing your praises, i would think you want to reevaluate what you're doing. he claimed not to know what white supremacy was in an interview with jake tapper which is an unusual thing for any sentient being to pretend not to know what white supremacy is. >> he said -- this is the thing donald trump has done for decades. we have the remember the central park five incident. before there were tweets he spent tens of thousands of dollars on advertisements to spread division. ed koch the mayor of new york said everybody calm down. let's not crewsify these kids

before the justice system has a way to work. donald trump inflamed it. and the cases go on and on and on. he's detached from the facts. fewer than than eight people in "a" year since 9/11 have been killed by islamic terrorists in the united states. it's a problem, but it's not the thing the president needs to tweet three distortions about on a random morning. >> there's a tax bill that is going to do good things for all americans. and he was tweeting something he shouldn't have been tweeting. >> what about his brand, this is what he knows. the bulk of his fortune is based on his brand. he licenses that trump name to hotels and golf courses and vineyards and all kinds of stuff, steak, water. when he retweets, he knows full well he's giving his brand and,

frankly, our brand, the american brand, to far right neo-nazis. on saturday he retweeted from a israeli newspaper. he knows what he's doing when he uses the trump brand. >> with a jewish daughter and jewish son-in-law and jewish grand sons -- >> why did he do it? >> he did it when he was a casino owner. he said i want guys in yarmulkes counting my money. >> if you cannot unite, you divide, divide, divide, and then you take the scraps. our other breaking news story tonight. morning television icon out the door after sexual misconduct

allegations. what else can come out, next. ♪ ♪ open up the world with platinum. backed by the service and security of american express.

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lauer is out after a colleague reported inappropriate sexual behavior. here's how his coanchor broke the news this morning. >> i'm heart broken for matt, he's my dear dear friend and partner and he was loved be many people here. i'm heart broken for the colleague who came forward with her story. and we are garop welling a dilemma that so many people have faced these past few weeks, how do you reconcile your love for someone with the revelation they have behaved badly? and o i don't have the answer to that. >> there are new reports of accusations against lauer that he allegedly dropped his pants in front of a female reporter a -- employee and wanted her to perform a sex act. also joining the conversation is

media analyst bill carter. bill, had there been -- with weinstein there were rumors. >> lots of rumors. >> were there rumors with lauer? >> there were rumors that he was a player. i never heard rumors of sexual harassment about him. it's interesting to hear about savannah saying he's a beloved figure. you never heard that about harvey weinstein or bill o'reilly. and then you hear these really startling allegations about a sexual assault in the office. >> i think it's awkward to watch a woman have to go on the air and break that news and express grief and heart break and then have all these tragic, horrifying details come out later. i don't know why they put her in that passion. to see these women have to clean

up the mess is awkward and could be handled in a much better way because everyone's going to go back and say why was she heart broken? it puts her in a bad position. these networks need to stop doing that. >> i also think there's a problem, sarah silverman talked about this with louis c.k. because they've been friends for 25 years and she says she loves him and they're good friends and then how do you reconcile those things. that's a real thing. people do bad things. good people do bad things. it doesn't mean they're irrelevant redeemably evil. sometimes you have people who are beloved. i know people at the "today" show that love matt lauer and love working with him. >> you have to understand good people do bad things. >> i thought they were being completely transparent. they still haven't told us why

they fired their star ankle. i thought what we saw from savannah guthrie was a serious news person dealing with a serious news story about someone she had been working well with for many years, i thought she was very authentic and very transparent. this is what i'm going through, i haven't figured it out yet either. >> if you heard something in the nbc statement, to me they said the current management didn't receive any complaints which works seems to distinguish it from prior management. i don't know if that was intentional or not but it raises questions in my mind. >> i think there was likely an investigation, likely some internal work that went on there. who knows how they handle things internally there, but there were certainly folks in a legal capacity looking at this thing. >> i think you do have to put this context of what's going on throughout the media. entertainment business and obviously the political world.

this is kind of an epidemic. it's always been there and it's come out. i think there's an awful a lot of behavior that's clearly been under the radar that's pretty out there and offensive and it needs to be exposed. >> herral do rivera said the news is a flirty business. >> right. that's just telling, i think, much maybe there are a lot of men who think that. a lot of women would say, no, it isn't a flirty business. >> they did just cut him loose, regardless of statement. lauer, not herral doe. >> i'm talking about lauer. >> for a long time the media was such a boys club and the men were used to doing what they wanted to do and there weren't a lot of women in positions of power to bupush back. i don't think the women think

that. i don't think of it as a flirty business. >> media and the entertainment industry there's a lot of women attracted to that business and they didn't have positions of power and they liked jobs and they were easily taken advantage of for that reason. sexual misconduct in the workplace clearly not just a problem in the media. over the last couple weeks we heard allegations of lawmakers in capitol hill. we'll hear from kathleen rice who left a meeting with members of her own party because they're not taking the issue seriously. g your hair down? switch to new pantene light as air foam conditioner, full of rich pro-v nutrients. for 100% conditioning, 0% weight new pantene foam conditioner. no matter what it brings. every day. or where he is. and pain doesn't hold him back. thanks to dr. scholl's running insoles. the only ones proven to relieve and prevent pain from runner's knee, shin splints and plantar fasciitis. dr. scholl's. born to move.

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breaking news tonight, matt lauer out an nbc facing sexual misconduct allegations, yet politicians are faring differently when allegations come out. men like john conyers, al franken are staying in office on top of at least two yet unnamed members. >> where are the professional consequences for the abusers? we in congress right here right now at this seminal moment in this country's history have the opportunity to say we are going to lead on this issue and we are not going to allow this kind of abusive environment to exist him zbloi -- anymore.

>> people in the private businesses are finally being -- how it's being addressed in the political realm. >> there seems to be a higher standard for morning news hosts than members of congress. that's the way it looks right now. so morning news anchor gets held to a higher standard. this idea of due process, due process is a legal issue. nobody's going to go the law trial and have real due process. you're going to have somebody look at it and say is this a credible accusation like the "today" show presumably did with matt lauer. for some reason the democrats seem to think that a john conyers or al franken deserves some sort of higher level or shouldn't be held at the same standard at matt lauer, and i don't think that's right. if anything, they're held to a higher standard. >> here's what blows my mind. the closest thing that the democrats and progressives have to the tea party was the women's march that materialized out of nowhere the day after the inauguration. that political power has nowhere

to go. i would be trying to find a woman in congress to be a leader of that or poster perish for that. the way nancy pelosi blew that in the sunday morning interview saying john conyers san elizabeth warren could conceivably lead that movement, but she doesn't seem up for the job. i would think if they want to be successful -- until they figure out a way to do that. >> the plaintiff's bar represents the victims and the defense bar represents the corporations. agreeing on the fact that the confidentiality agreements are a good thing, it keeps it from heading to litigation, where all of this gets aired out in the court of law.

and there won't be settlements, they maybe say, we'll take this to the mat, regardless of the allegations because i feel i -- that the person who's been accused feels that they need to be vindicated in court. that changes when it relates to the public sector, i think. there's a real question as to when taxpayer dollars are involved, what is the accountability of congress? what's the accountability, what's the process there to hold folks accountable and look at these issues and determine whether they need to be made public or not. >> dana bash was reporting today about harassment by congressman. in the matt lauer case they investigated immediately. apparently there's four, five, six hoops they have to go through.

and then these agreements are sealed, we never know about them. shareholder's money is one thing, this is taxpayer's money, they have to reform that. >> a news organization has to be transparent. how could they cover this, how do they cover any of the other stories. >> you look at matt lauer grilling bill o'reilly. >> it's embarrassing that happened. they can't play the game that the politicians are playing with this. and say, you know, it's not so serious, and we're going to cover it up or we're going to deny it. >> what nbc did, maybe they should have listened long ago, at least they acted -- they did act. >> there needs to be mandatory training. certainly that needs to happen in congress, and. >> does it matter when you elect somebody like roy moore. >> or donald trump, who had 12

women by name accuse him of harassment. more voted for hillary, but still, enough voted for him that he could sneak through the electoral college. >> the woman can never come out and say anything, i think she needs to be released from that. >> you look at it in the context of the private sector world, where both parties come to an agreement, that's strikingly different from mandating it, upon staff in the government. we have to take a break, thanks for being on the show. coming up, something to make you smile, a weird day. the ridiculist is next. e priori. you did that? we did that. really. we analyzed millions of articles and reports. we can identify threats 50% faster. you can do that? we can do that. then do that.

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time now for the ridiculist. we know there's a lot that's competing for your attention daily. we've been using the word velcro wrong. velcro is a brand name and you shouldn't say velcro unless it's actual brand name velcro, and they made a song about it. ♪ we're asking you not to say the name which took 60 plus years to build ♪ ♪ if you keep calling things velcro shoes our trademark will

fail ♪ >> what are you supposed to call it if it's knockoff velcro? that's where the chorus comes n in. ♪ you call it velcro but we're begging you this is hook and loop ♪ >> nobody's going to call it hook and loop. how do you know if it's actual velcro or nasty old hook and loop. why did they make a song about this? because we put it on tv and i've said velcro 13 times in the past 80 seconds. the song is catchy, but it reminds me of when they tried to make a dundermifflin jingle on the office.

♪ >> i hate it, i hate it. i don't hate it, i just don't like it at all. >> they would like you to know other things you're saying wrong, and yes, they're going to sing it. >> if you need something to clean up your socks, do it with bleach and not with [ bleep ] ♪ this is a if you're exercising with someone you're dating it's ice skating and not. >> what hook and loop segment would be complete without showing you the last time it got this much attention when a velcro executive joined david letterman for this bit of tv magic. >> i'll hit the wall and stay there, right? >> yes, theoretically.

>>. >> go high, go as high as you can go. >>. >> now, that's how to make brand recognition stick on the ridiculist. good luck, velcro. cnn tonight starts right now. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon, breaking news on the russia investigation jared kushner has met with robert mueller's investigators to answer questions about michael flynn. we're going to have more on that in a moment. plus, new details on the stunning firing of matt lauer today 36 hours of out of control behavior from president trump, retweeting hateful anti-muslim videos, attacking the free press. reviving his racist birther conspiracy