of the vietnam war. venezuelaens thought life in their country today was better. i will see you next time. >> hey, i'm brian stelter and this is reliable sources. a look at the story behind the story. how the media works and how the news gets made. ahead today, this network, cnn under scrutiny for a faulty report about donald trump jr. and wikileaks. why were there so many mistakes made by news outlets just this week? and as the russia drip drip drip of real information continues to come out, so do the right wing media attacks on bob mueller's creditability. what's the end game here? later david axle rod to talk about the president's tv habits and the rise of political contacts. tuesday's election in the state of alabama is going to receive wall to wall national attention.

so we start there with the polls that show a toss up between moore and jones. moore has been avoiding interviews ever since women accused him of sexual misconduct but he's been running against the media. only speaking with friendly outlets, avoiding journalists who would like to talk with him, also refusing to debate his opponent. take a look. moore spokeswoman said in two separate interviews with cnn this week -- >> i don't believe her at all. i'll tell you why. not only was she sought after by "the washington post," her own mother doesn't believe elements of her story. one of the jobs of journalists is to not just take an academy award performance at face value. you need to dig into the facts. there's a reason for fake news. you're not investigating the false accusations screaming.

when you have false allegations there tends to be a pile-on. that's how a lynch mob weeks. >> even though the accounts from the accusers are credible. look, it seems like moore's campaign is taking a page straight out of president trump's anti-media playbook and the president has been promoting more on twitter and at a friday night rally. >> this guy is screaming we want roy moore. he's right. and we want job, job, jobs. so get out and vote. for roy moore. >> most recently a call recorded by president trump is rolling out to alabama voters. let's talk about what the next 48 hours of campaigning and what can happen tuesday night. kyle whitmire is here for the alabama media group. also dale jackson on wvnn radio in alabama and alana plots who

has been covering the election for the magazine. >> lots to talk about. let's start with roy moore and his campaigning. is it true he's mostly missing from the campaign trail in these key final days? >> even before these allegations came out, he was pretty scarce on the campaign trail. roy moore has always been a candidate who let's his opponents do a lot of the heavy lifting for him. he has a very, very loyal base in the state and when his opponents attack him, when the media questions him, that only just re-enforces their support for roy moore. yeah, he's been scarce. even before these allegations he's certainly been scarce since these allegations came out and has not been making himself available to much media except for talk shows and other forums that are sympathetic or friendly

to him. >> dale, you have a conservative radio host. have you been able to get the candidate on your show? >> roy moore has not come on my radio show on months and i don't expect to get him on my show before the election or afterwards. i've been very unfriendly to roy moore for years here and the question is why the people don't believe what the media is saying and the reason is simple. lots of retractions. donald trump, a pathological liar, has weaponized the term fake news and kyle whitmire years ago wrote a piece asking if roy moore was gay. why in the world would anybody listen to those outlets? that's the real problem here. >> kyle? >> look, these allegations are -- they're credible. yes, you know, dale is right about the piece i wrote years ago. the question was whether this was following a narrative that we've seen over and over again

with his vitriol toward the lgbtq community. let's face it. this is an apparatus, a reality distortion field that the republican party on the right has created and it's been in effect here in alabama that gives people license to disbelieve things that they don't want to be true. >> i wonder as we think about the broader context here, if this is a preview of what the mid terms are going to be like? if republican candidates are going to run against the press especially if it works for roy moore tuesday? >> i know you cited a poll that is a tossup. but i believe that roy moore will win on tuesday and i think what that's going to show to every single republican candidate going forward especially a chris mcdaniel in mississippi against roger wicker

that the media is a credible opponent. that elections do not have to be for ideology any longer. squaring up against an opponent based on policy proposals. you can weaponize fake news as this president has done so well and rally the base around that and feel comfortable going into a tuesday election. >> doesn't that mean something is broken in our society? >> well, i would say so. but i also think it points to -- i kind of think we forget it wasn't until president trump that the term fake news coursed through society so easily. you can walk down the street and hear anyone use the term fake news but i think that's a signal that this is a imbedded part of our culture at this point and reporters are going to have to consistently come up with ways to make sure that they're being respected and listened to in spite of that. >> dale, you know, i would say sometimes you're on the radio discouraging people from

trusting real reporting. i think you might say we deserve it right? >> the simple fact is this. there has been an agenda against roy moore in the state of alabama going back a decade. why in the world would people believe the things said if it's always negative over and over and over and over again? that weaponizes the term fake news. you guys have to look inside your own house to make that conversation. because the bottom line is this. people don't trust you guys and the reason they don't trust you is because you are constantly telling them they are wrong, they are stupid, they are racists and then we're saying listen to us you wrong, stupid and racist people, it's not going to work, they don't trust you guys. >> when you say they don't trust you guys, i think what you mean is there's a percentage of the country primarily conservative who for years and decades have just trusted the press who do not trust main stream reporting. it is not a majority of the country. >> it's a pretty big number. donald trump was able to become

president of the united states using this same attack. you pointed out roy moore is doing the exact same thing. this election is about roy moore only. none of us sitting on this panel know what doug jones believes on absolutely anything because it has become a battle between roy moore and you guys and he's going to win. >> i do think it's a problem that doug jones has not received more coverage. you just saw the tweet that was said the media only covered more, you barely know jones was also running. has that been a problem for you on the ground there, kyle? >> i don't believe that's fair. look, yes, we don't cover houses that aren't on fire. right. doug jones is a pretty vanilla democrat. that's sort of what he's put himself out there as a generic democrat for the purpose of not trying to get nailed down on certain issues. you know, he has had problems with his stance on abortion but other than that, you look up and

down on his list of issues. it's what you would expect from a democrat. meanwhile, you have roy moore who is not a typical republican in a lot of respects, you know, to the point that this morning richard shelby came out on your network criticizing him again and something that, you know, he couldn't have criticized him more directly if he were writing an attack ad for the jones' campaign. look, there has clearly been more coverage of roy moore. just because he is such a spectacle and such an abnormality. >> thank you all for being here. and the interview with shelby you can see in the next hour. up next, self inflicted wounds by several newsrooms this week and president trump calling on media companies to fire

individual journalists. carl bernstein responds right after this. it feels good to be back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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and abc. ross was suspended for a breaking news report about michael flynn that had not been fully vetted by the network ahead of time and since then several more mistakes by other media outlets have caused a lot of intro speculation in newsrooms. then candidate donald trump and donald trump jr. had received an e-mail in september of 2016 providing a description key and web access allowing them to access documents before they were publicly available. later that afternoon the story

unraveled. cnn issued this correction. >> we have just obtained a copy of this e-mail. instead we now learn that this e-mail was on september 14th. so that is 10 days later than what we originally reported earlier today. this appears to change the understanding of the story. >> it changed the understanding quite a bit. with abc's suspension of ross i asked cnn if there would be disciplinary action. a spokeswoman said no. because the reporters followed cnn's standards process which means the sources they were using were vetted and okayed ahead of time. now the sources have been reliable in the past. but they were not this time. the spokeswoman said cnn had no reason to believe this was malicious, meaning the sources weren't trying to trick the

reporters, the sources were just mistaken. but that mistake obviously caused a black eye for cnn. on friday night president trump seized on the recent corrections at a rally in florida. >> and by the way, did you see all the corrections the media has been making? they have been apologizing left and right. they took this guy from abc and they should have fired him. and then cnn apologized. thank you cnn. thank you so much. you should have been apologizing for the last two years. >> technically cnn did not apologize but did correct the reporting. cbs issued a correction for the same story. and this was not the only error of the week. did you hear about robert mueller's team subpoenaing trump's records. there were corrections saying the documents that were subpoenaed pertained to people or entities affiliated with

trump, not the president individually. now that is still a big development. but it's not what the news outlets originally said. "the wall street journal" got it right in the text of their story but misconstrued it in the headline so they had to run a correction as well. these errors have piled up this week. let's talk about it with carl bernstein. he is now a cnn political analyst. and david frumm. >> carl, how damaging are the string of errors? >> well, they're damaging in the sense this is taking place in a cold civil war in this country in which neither side seems to have much interest in the best obtainable version of the truth. too many people in our citizenry and in our institutions are looking for information that re-enforces what they already

believe that buttresses their already held political prejudices, cultural beliefs, et cetera, et cetera. at the same time, look, reporters, journalists make mistakes. our record as journalists in covering this trump story and the russian story is pretty good. especially compared to the record of donald trump and his serial lying. there's no other historical word that describes it. >> carl, you're saying our record is pretty good but why would a trump supporter believe that given this repetitive string of errors? >> because -- i don't think a trump supporter would believe it. and i think there is a suspension of belief and reasonable looking at how the media does its job on both sides. people are looking for information that re-enforces what they already believe instead of the best obtainable

version of the truth. we have to get back to the notion that -- which is absolutely correct, that most of the media really tries, the mainstream media from the washington poe ast and "the new york times" to really go out of their way to be accurate, factual, contextle and we do and we have done a pretty good job of it i would say by and large an excellent job in terms of the facts of this hugely complicated story. you know, we made a huge mistake in watergate, bob woodward and i in which we said the principal assistant to the president of the united states had been implicated in grand jury testimony. in fact, he had not been implicated in grand jury testimony. today i wonder if we would have been fired for that mistake.

instead of continuing on the story. we are in a hot house cold civil war atmosphere and the press and attacking the press is the basic element that too many demagogues in our culture have used to whip up this cold civil war and to appeal to the base of the president of the united states. >> david, what's your advice for journalists in the situation and for readers? >> i have more advice for readers. you asked the question brian, why should given these mistakes why should people trust the media? the mistakes are precisely the reason the people should trust the media. astronomers make mistakes all the time because science is a process of discovery of truth. astrologiers never make mistakes. they are offering a closed system of ideology and propaganda. faced with wrong-doing circled by lives. the process of piercing the

lives is inherently not only difficult but adversarial because the people are trying to find the truth are against bad faith actors and get partial pieces of the truth. there are going to be overshoots and undershoots. the bloomberg story you mentioned, donald trump holds most of his debt through trump related entities not personally. so we don't know exactly what deutsche bank was subpoenaed to release but it's not wrong to say when you get a trump related entity you're getting something but trump, nonetheless, error of emphasis. but is the process of bringing truth to life. from the president and his supporters you hear a system of lies. they're not well placed to complain. because the mistakes occur in the process of exposing the lies that the liars then complain about the mistakes. that are investigating them. >> you're saying the journalists are held to a high standard appropriately but that the president and his allies --

>> no. i'm saying something a little bit different. i'm saying journalism is a process. the way you discover the truth is not by reading any one story and thinking here's the truth. you have to be an active consumer. this is unlike law enforcement, which investigates and pruboduc conclusions at the end. journalists show their work as they go. they approximate the truth. in this case they are reaching it not just because the truth is difficult but because they're confronting bad faith actors engaged in concealment in order to deprive the public of important knowledge of wrong-doing financial and national security. >> michael lke allen -- >> let me -- >> let me put this on quickly. the media's best and worst of times. trump's argument is not broadly true. most reporters do work hard to be fair and accurate and national outlets have risen to

this historic era without unprecedented resources and consequential journalism. this takes us back to about whether the public believes that. >> mike allen is right about the general excellence of the media's coverage particularly of donald trump, his presidency and this story. i think it's very important if open-minded people and that he's what we seem to be lacking on both sides but especially trump supporters here and let's say that that is the fact especially among trump supporters about open-mindedness, the mainstream media makes far fewer errors than most institutions in our culture because we are in the business of trying not to make errors. and we have all kinds of procedures in place to keep us from making those errors. compare us to wall street.

compare us to banking. compare us to the congress of the united states. compare us to almost any institution and we make fewer errors. at the same time, we can't be com complacent. we need to be introspective. in terms of the press being a crucial element of the cold civil war and see if there are some ways that we through more transparency as well as perhaps change in tone in some instances can make ourselves less the issue, the conduct of the press the issue instead of the conduct of the president and those around him. >> with the greatest respect to carl and his incredible accomplishmen accomplishments, framing this is a matter of two sides is misleading. when we talk about the press we

exclude fox and press organization that is have an interest in finding truth. excluding fox, the worst mistakes they have made has occurred in their effort -- their overzealous effort to be fair to the president. the problem they cover is accurate coverage of this president and his campaign is very different than neutral coverage. how do you report the fact that the president lies tall time and he recruits people to work for him that lie all the time? the worse mistakes -- >> i'm not talking about neutrality david. i'm not talking about neutrality. you're absolutely right. >> the worst mistakes press organizations have made and cnn made, the mistake they made it was important they promptly corrected it. the worst mistake cnn has made had been determination to bring in-house trump associates in order to promote trump

falsehoo falsehoods. not from trump hq or from the white house but with cnn's own brand on them. >> i have to disagree on that one. i think we need to hear from trump support es. >> as trump supporters. and that has been the worst mistake but that comes from the desire to be unduly. >> david and carl thank you very much. >> the best attainable version -- let me add one thing. the best attainable version of the truth is not necessarily about neutrality. it is about sorting through information and presenting what the facts and context are and that is what the major news organizations have done on this story and have done very well. >> carl come back with me after the break. david thank you for being here. one more note about this. david wiegle of "the washington post," the latest target of president trump. he tweeted out a picture of the

pensacola rally showing empty seats before the rally began and deleted when he realized it was misleading on saturday night. president trump took aim and criticized him even after an apologize was made on twitter saying he should be fired. now the was post is not going to fire him, standing by him. i checked in with "the washington post" this morning and acknowledge he made a mistake and deleted it and apologized. ask yourself do you think it's appropriate for the president of the united states to call on individual journalists to be fired? after the break here, we're talking about robert mueller, his special counsel and how right wing hosts are trying to discredit mueller. why? and is it working? we'll be right back.

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sources are. can you feel the pressure? as robert mueller's russia investigation zeros in on trump's inner circle pro trump posts like sean hannity are trying harder than ever to disaster credit mueller. >> the system is corrupt. >> it has been ever since trump was elected a silent coo to get him out of office. >> illegitimate and corrupt. >> hyper partisan attack team. >> hatchet men he has hired have brought not a single case related to collusion. >> disgrace. >> the fbi has become america's

secret police. >> do you see what can happen with the repetition when listeners are hearing it hour after hour? the campaign continuing this weekend. here's jeanine pero's show from last night. pero accounts herself as a friend and formal adviser to the president. >> there is a cleansing needed in our fbi and department of justice. it needs to be cleansed of individuals who should not just be fired but who need to be taken out in handcuffs. the stench coming out of the justice department and the fbi is that of a third world country. time to take them out in cuffs. >> we know the president watches and listens to these shows. what's the impact of this anti-mueller campaign? back with me now carl bernstein. carl, you say this is abetting a

coverup? >> yes. it abets a coverup because there is a coverup going on in the white house and among trump's aides and former aides relating to the investigations. we don't know what the coverup is about, whether it constitutes a obstruction of justice or a criminal conspiracy at this point. though there's some evidence that suggests it might be the case. but yes, because the commentators that you are hearing and showing are not open in any way to the best obtainable version of the truth, to facts, context, who seem to be oblivious of the serial lying of the president of the united states. they are abetting a coverup. more important, where we need to go again is the idea of making the conduct of the press the

issue, the conduct of the prosecutors the issue, making the conduct of everyone the issue except the president of the united states and those around him including those who have pleaded guilty already. >> i've seen differing opinions about the real purpose of this anti-mueller rhetoric. you know, you see some people say this is about goating trump to fire mueller. others saying this is impea impeachment politics, mueller will find something damaging, that impeachment proceedings will begin and attacking mueller is a way to give republicans a defense in an impeachment proceeding. how do you see it? is it an attempt to gode trump into firing mueller? >> that's a little overcomplicated. there is an attempt to defend donald trump by his base and by many, many republicans on capitol hill and also ordinary republican voters to defend him

at any cost including the cost of the truth. because unlike watergate let's go back to watergate and look at who the heroes were. they were republicans who said you know we have a criminal president of the united states, the fact that he is a republican does not excuse him of criminality and he needs to leave office. we don't seem to have that same attitude among mainstream republicans as well as republicans of the congress of the united states today about the fairness of an open inquiry into donald trump and what might occur in his campaign related to the undermining of an election apparently by the russians according to our intelligence agencie agencies. we are in a situation today in which again everyone's conduct except those under investigation is suspect.

it doesn't make sense. it's not logical. but we also are not living in a logical time. i mentioned this cold civil war a few moments ago in the earlier segment and i think we need to look at so much of our culture in terms of the cold civil war and the willing participation of combatants on all sides of the cold civil war and willingness to be oblivious to facts is undermining our very culture and system and these attacks are the most prominent evidence of how we are undermining truth and indeed abetting a coverup by not being willing to look at what is staring us in the face and that is first of all, the lies of the president of the united states. why is he lying? these same commentators at fox

ought to be asking. doesn't mean necessarily he ought to be impeached, there's impeachable evidence. that's what the mueller investigation is about. to find out is there a real conspiracy? what is the conspiracy if it exists, et cetera, et cetera? but it is a legitimate inquiry being conducted legitimately and the fact that mueller has isolated a couple of people in his investigation who seem to have expressed some political beliefs that are anti-trump is more evident of mueller's attempt to conduct a fair and impartial and factual investigation rather than the contrary. >> carl, thanks so much. up next, the dispute between russia and the u.s. you probably have not heard about i senator ben carson is russia is trying to further curb the free press and he's up next. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything

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welcome back. a tit for tat between the u.s. and russia is stirring concern

in media circles. russia followed through on threats to take action against u.s. funded outlets. russia labeling nine media organizations as foreign agents. it's a move in retaliation for the u.s. requiring the american version of the russian news network rt to register with the justice department as a foreign agent. with me now is senator ben carton of maryland. senator, you criticized this latest move saying it's just an excuse to further curb the free press in russia. why should viewers care? >> well, brian, we should understand that mr. putin uses the fake news and his press outlets as a tool. it's not an independent press. it is part of the strategy of mr. putin to interfere in other countries. they use it for propaganda. they use it for fake news. it's part of their tool in their tool chest to bring about a different type of government in

other countries. so it's something that should concern americans absolutely. >> and you think there's a big difference between what voice of america which is a u.s. funded outlet does versus what russia today does? isn't that the heart of this dispute? >> no. absolutely there's a difference here. we don't go over the edge and use fake news or lies in order to bring about a change in government. what we try to do through voice of america and from other news outlets is to get the information to the russian audience so they understand the truth, what's going on. they can make their own judgment as to how they would like their country to proceed but we want to make sure they get independent news information rather than controlled information coming out from the russian government. >> how is this going to end? there's been concern that maybe next russia might try to kick out u.s. based news outlets like cnn not funded by the u.s. government but based in the u.s.

there's also been questions about whether russia is going to be taken off cable here in the united states. how do you see this ending? >> make no mistake about it, russia under mr. putin will continue to try to control the information, not just in their own country but in countries where they believe they can influence. the former republics of the soviet union, countries under the domination of the soviet union. they are very much going to use whatever tools they can to influence public opinion including who the citizens of that country vote for for their leaders. we saw that in our election and in european elections. so we got to be realistic about this. we're not playing on a level playing field. obviously, we're going to have to protect our own country from that type of fake information and fake news that comes through russia. >> let me ask you about that neutrality. the republican stc chair is moving forward with a vote to repeal the obama era neutrality

rules. tell me why you and so many other democrats have asked him to delay the vote. >> access to the internet is a public utility. and we have to make sure that it's not regulated in a discriminatory manner which denies small businesses or individuals to the same type of internet service that others receive. so it is a matter of public interest and we do believe the s.e.c. is moving down the wrong path and trying to deny equal access to the internet. >> shouldn't there be a congressional remedy here, meaning a new law passed in congress in order to create 21st century regulations for how companies that provide internet access should be regulated? right now these neutrality rules are based on very outdated legislation. >> you're right. congress has a responsibility not just in access to the

internet and net neutrality but so many other areas congress needs to act. so i have called upon to allow us to debate and act on these issues but we don't see any willingness on behalf of the republican leadership to schedule any congressional debate on these subjects. >> senator, thanks for being here today. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up next, david axlerod on how much tv president trump watches. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "reliable sources." on the front page of today's "new york times," a detailed account about how president trump spent his time, beginning with a morning of marathon tv watching. this, according to "the times," people estimate that he watches as much as four hours a day and

sometimes as much as twice that, in front of a television, sometimes with the volume of muted, marinating in the no-holds-barred wars of cable news and eager to fire back. president obama's former chief strategist, david axelrod is joining me. people of, your truly, were critical of the president not watching too much news. and now president trump is being criticized for watching too much. is there a sweet spot in this? >> having had the office next to the president for dwtwo years, saw what came to the desk, these very complex and grave issues that required judgment on the part of the president of the united states and i'd see the president go back to his residence every night with a

folder thick of information so he'd be prepared for the discussions the next day and i'm wondering, how's the work getting done? who is making these decisions? if the president is consumed by watching cable television, who is doing the work of sifting through those complex issues and arriving at an answer? so i have a practical concern. you're right, president obama, you know, insisted, for example, when we were on the road, he had his television tuned to espn. he had a no-cable news policies because he thought it was a lot of noise that he didn't need to hear or want to hear. and perhaps he could have done more listening to it. i don't know if that would have enhanced his performance as president or not. but what's disturbing here is not only that the president is so occupied with it but that he seems influenced by it. he's so reactive to it.

he gets a lot of his information, it seems, from this sort of amen corner on fox news, the sort of very, you know, conspiracy-prone pro trump. that seems to stoke him up. >> and telling him that everyone is out to get him. >> yep. >> i've noticed this year on your podcast, there's been a rise in political podcasts. you've been doing this for a while now. what have you learned about the podcast world and why people are so interested in it? >> well, i'm really heartened by -- my podcast started at the institute of politics at the university of chicago, which i founded after 2012, and i was having discussions in front of audiences with people across the

political spectrum and there seem to be a real interest in these conversations and particularly in the stories of these people and it occurred to me, well, maybe other people would want to hear those as well and it turns out there's a real market for it. we're told people want bite-sized information in these fast-paced times. but really i think people are hungering for deeper discussions and they want to know who people are, where they came from, what motivates them and i hope that by having these conversations with people, we can help deacidify our politics in some way. when i have a conversation with karl rove, for example, about his mother's suicide and my father committed suicide, so we had this in common, i saw a different dimension of him. when i talked to mitt romney about the impact of the implosion of his father's political career had on his own approach to politics, those are things i don't think people are

used to hearing. so i think we're providing something -- >> we need more. >> yeah, i think so. >> check out "the axe files" at podcast.cnn.com. >> thanks for having me. >> we'll see you back here at this time next week. at t-mobile, when you holiday together, great things come in twos. like t-mobile and netflix. right now when you get an unlimited family plan, netflix is included. ho ho ho! t-mobile covers your netflix subscription... best christmas gift ever! ...so you can binge watch all year long.

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all in. president trump urging voters to elect the man credibly accused of sexually abusing two young teenage girls to the u.s. sen