chicago, just like the rest of america, needs to make amends with its black population. these communities just want to be heard. they have the solutions. they are invested in the solutions. were you listening? >> we ask you and thank you in the name of jesus. amen, amen, amen. i've never been to prison, except for this show. i've never been, which, again, is one of those weird things to say out loud. and how i feel about going to prison is like how a person in new york feels if they've been there all their life and never stepped in poop. doesn't mean you're good, just means you're lucky. i feel there are two things true about prison. every man in this room has had the thought of who would be in prison. i think every guy feels like, i'd be the guy who ran the yard. i'd be the guy who was in charge. come to me if you need

everything. every guy thinks they would be that guy when most of the people would be like -- [ crying ] please. my name is w. kamau bell. as a comedian i've made a living finding humor in the parts of america i don't understand. and now i'm challenging myself to dig deeper. i'm on a mission to reach out and experience all of the cultures and beliefs that add color to this crazy country. this is "united shades of america." ♪ >> ah, the san francisco bay area, my home. when the producers told me we were shooting our next episode in the bay, i couldn't wait. so many stories to be told here. the tech industry is pushing working class people out of san francisco. oakland is the birthplace of the black panthers. hell, bruce lee even lived here. well, the producers looked at me and said the four words no person ever wants to hear. you're going to prison.

right across the bay, just 12 miles from san francisco, sits san quentin prison. one of america's most infamous prisons. this place locked up the best of the worst, from serial killers to presidential assassins to maybe the worst husband of all time. but it has also been home to people you wouldn't expect, like country singer merle haggard, actor danny trejo and even stanley williams, convicted murder r and exgang member turned nobel peace prize nominee and children's book author, who the state still saw fit to execute. san quentin is a handful of american prisons who like a pop star or a-list celebrity for some reason rise to an iconic single-name status like alcatraz, folsom, rahway, or britney, which, of course, means that johnny cash recorded an

album there. now why in the world would i be going there? well, whether we like to think about it or not, there are human beings behind these walls. yes, some very bad ones, but then some who i've heard are just people who have done bad things, some who just made mistakes, got caught up in the system. and i want to meet these men to find out what life is really like in prison and see if they are being rehabilitated, or are they all doomed to become another statistic in the ever growing business that is prison? >> thank you. >> and more than any other prison in the san francisco area, san quentin is known for its cutting-edge rehabilitation programs. all trying to cut down on the rate orecivi average rate of recidivism is 60%. that means 60% of prisoners return within three years of being released. and that fact is only the beginning of what is a disturbing reality that is the prison system in this country. to get me started on my time

here, i'm meeting up with lieutenant stan robinson, who will be my tour guide, because yeah, not really looking to get lost in here. >> stan robinson. >> kamau bell. >> nice to meet you. >> i hear they call you the mayor of san quentin. >> well they call me a lot of things but officially i'm the public information officer of san quentin. >> thanks for bringing me in here. >> i'm glad you guys could come in and experience this world. now i know when you step into prison it is a different feeling than on the other side of the walls. >> this feels like a community college. >> it does. this is the adjustment center. this is where we say we host the worst of the worst in the state of california. >> this is the worst inmates in the state of california? >> the worst inmates in the state of california. >> i feel like i shouldn't be pointing. >> well, they're not coming out this way. >> yes, san quentin houses california's only death row inmates. yet it's actually the prison that california inmates want to get transferred to because it

has the highest number of rehab programs by far, and it's also a level 2 prison. see, prison security levels range from level 1, think like martha stewart prison, to level 4, like a really froggy episode of "oz." while san quentin used to be a level 4, in 1999, it was changed to a level 2. >> our inmate population is down below there. >> it's not what i was expecting. i thought we would turn this corner and there would be several gates and i would be strip-searched. you know what i mean? >> why would we strip search you? do we need to? >> no, to be absolutely clear, no, you don't. sam, you absolutely do not. so this is what those of us who watch prison movies refer to as the yard. >> this is the yard at san quentin. we house 3,864 inmates at this prison. currently there are 731 guys on death row here at san quentin. >> is there anything i should be aware of or think about or know as i walk in here? >> just be yourself. >> okay. it's amazing how many times people give that you advice. >> so for a guy who's never

walked inside of a prison, what does that feel like? >> you know, it's funny. it feels like i'm walking into a neighborhood i'm unfamiliar with. >> nice, brother. >> thank you, sir. now it feels great. >> now you know. >> i'm looking around, i see sort of different groups of people in different areas. are the areas broken up in any way? >> the areas are broken up in a way. just beyond the tennis court are primarily where the white guys are. >> okay. >> there are a couple different areas for those guys. the basketball court, that's primarily where all the african-americans are. there's a little area of land just behind us near the shack where the piesis -- >> the what? >> piesis. those individuals from mexico south. hispanic inmates. not california, so to say. then nortenos, which is northern hispanic, there's an area where they're at. so the yard is segregated based upon underground rules. >> okay. so, it seems like the black guys got the basketball court. no surprise there. but if you're a white guy that

wants to play basketball, is it just not recommended that you go over there? if a white guys got a good jump shot, would they welcome you in there? >> you may feel that way and it may not be that these guys have an issue with you. >> okay. >> it's that the guys who look like you may have an issue with you coming over here. >> oh. is there any sort of effort to try to create that cross-pollination? >> there are many efforts. whether through educational opportunities. through programs we have. work assignments. we do try to bring our population together and we successfully put people next to each other who traditionally will not be next to each other. >> okay. sam wanted me to meet rashawn thomas, a writer for the award-winning prison newspaper "the san quentin news." >> rashawn, want to introduce you to someone. >> hey, bro. it's all good. >> hey, kamau bell. >> how you do, kamau bell. heard a lot about you. >> i wanted to come talk to you. i've heard lot about you. people said i should talk to you about what's going down here. >> i'm the sports editor >> sports editor. what are you in for and at's

your sentence? >> i'm a lifer, convicted of second-degree murder and attempted voluntary manslaughter. i have a 55 to life sentence. i will probably never go home. >> 55 to life. level 2 is a blessing. >> you consider this a blessing? >> this is. free college here at san quentin. level 4s do not. >> they don't bring in unknown comedians to talk to you. >> what's up? >> that's the alarm for the prison. when there's an alarm, as you can see, people, no matter where they are in here, everybody gets down on the ground. and they get down on the ground until our staff figures out what's going on. >> how often does that alarm go off? >> some days not at all. other days it might go off four or five times, but it's usually pretty short. like that. it's usually short. >> that means it's over? >> yeah. they found whatever and we're back in business. >> okay. there wasn't any reaction. everybody just sat down. >> good thing about san quentin level 2 part especially, hardly anything happens on this side. >> so, my name's kamau. >> duck.

>> duck, what's the biggest surprise from the outside of being in san quentin? >> the name itself is not the character that it produces anymore. it actually produces positive people now. >> yes. >> some people come here who couldn't read, write, spell. now you walk around and they're geniuses. >> you have cell phones so you need somebody walking around to be the computer -- >> no doubt, yeah. >> you need somebody whose nickname is wikipedia so they can give you information. >> it keeps you aware. you know. they make us think we are some sort of humanity. because other than that, we would just be numbers on the yard. >> yeah. numbers on the yard. >> yeah. just numbers on the yard. >> what's your sentence? >> oh, i've got a seven to life. >> how long you been in here? >> i'm on my 40th year right now. >> seven to life and on your 40th year? >> 40th year. >> wow. >> same thing i say every morning i get up. >> seven to life sounds like that's not --

>> would you think you would be -- >> i thought you were going to say 6 1/2, you know. >> oh, no. >> it sounds unfair. it sounds like if you're able to live here and sit here and we're talking -- >> right. because they call this rehabilitation. so if you've been rehabilitated, then you get to a spot like this, then there should be rewards at the end of the gate. >> yeah. >> but it don't seem to be that way. >> it should be incentive. you should get out sooner. if you can complete programs and get past checkpoints and be rehabilitated, because once you're rehabilitated, you have the potential to be an asset to society. >> america's a country that likes to give people second chances, but for some reason, prisoners aren't given second chances. you get defined by the worst moment of your life. >> yeah. >> it was time for rashawn to take me to meet the staff at the "san quentin news." >> this is where i work. >> with a press run of 13,000, the newspaper is distributed to 18 other prisons in california, and it is also one of the few papers in the world to be run by prisoners that can be read by people on the outside. >> everybody's got it for the

meeting. this is where the magic happens. >> okay, all right. >> any inmate that wants to write for "san quentin news," all they have to do is come to the journalism guild to get lessons on writings and they can be given stories. >> so you just have to show a willingness to do it and pick up the skills? >> yeah. >> okay. are these computers connected to the internet? >> heck no. i wish. we have berkeley students that do research for us. we come up with the ideas and they gave us the information and all the support we need. >> so, it's basically the old-school internet -- people. >> people. [ laughter ] >> there's nothing about the way these guys are working that's says this is a hobby or just a way to pass time. at first glance, seems like san quentin is taking this rehab thing seriously. >> all right. i like wait kamau comes to work. that's right. >> hey, kamau, know any spirituals? ♪ swing low sweet chariot ♪ coming for to carry me home

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♪ today at san quentin i'm meeting back up for rashawn thomas, who is on assignment for the prison newspaper. as we walk the yard, i see a lot of black faces. i wish i could say i was surprised. while only 13% of america's population is black, black people make up 40% of its prison population. and there's more bad news. due to oversentencing and

unequal application of the law, one in three black men will go to prison some time in their lives. >> so, kamau, how did you get past the one in three? >> i don't know. i feel sort of weird talking about it. >> you weren't poor? you weren't a victim of crime? nobody tried to take your sneakers? >> no, i was the kind of kid who if they took my sneakers, i'd be like, all right. i think a part of it is that's called conflict avoidance. that's about being a comedian, you make people laugh to avoid the fight. >> that's a blessing. >> one of the things i keep hearing from the guys in prison is how they need to do things that make them feel normal. and for a lot of these dudes, playing sports is one of those things. >> kamau, have you ever seen baseball in prison? >> no, until this week i had never seen anything in prison. at san quentin, if you want to play baseball and you work hard and stay out of trouble, not only do you get to play, but you get to play against outside teams, not teams of other prisoners, teams of regular folk, regular folk who

voluntarily agree to let convicted felons hurl objects at them. >> how are you doing, sir? >> cleo. >> kamau. >> how you doing? >> good. >> one of the top players here. >> i wouldn't say top. but somebody really loves the game with a passion. >> all right. somebody that loves the game with a passion. >> what does the baseball program do for you? >> the baseball gives me the opportunity to practice leadership, teamwork, confidence, hard work, dedication, and i think street's treated me wrong, but baseball always treated me right. >> wow. >> as we watch the team practice, i got curious. why would rashawn work so hard at a rehab program when he knows he has almost no chance of ever getting out of prison? why do you want to be a journalist? what does this do for you? >> it does a lot. first of all, my voice is the only thing that's still free. >> okay. >> and having so much time, you feel like you're going to waste. there's nothing meaningful to do except for writing. so, this gives me something

meaningful t do. >> finding a purpose in life is not exactly what we generally think of when we picture what inmates are doing in prison. you know what you think of, fighting in the shower, racially rioting. well, check this out. yoga is another one of the rehab programs here, and phun singh, a practitioner and a writer for the news is letting me sit in on the story. >> inhale and extend. >> why do you think it's important to do yoga? >> helps me to relax and do whatever energy i accumulate throughout the day, it helps me to discharge that energy. >> mentally, what has it done? >> i'm more clear. focused. i'm ready for, you know, another challenge. it's good. >> next, me and foon head over to cell block c, where 420 men are housed, including foon. >> when i first came, i looked, i was actually scared.

>> yeah. >> you know what i mean? like, here's this little guy. >> so, can i ask you how you ended up incarcerated? >> yes. so, i'm in here for first-degree murder on a drive-by. >> so, what exactly happened? >> i had a nephew who was in school, right? he was getting picked on. so i went to go pick him up so that way he would get home right when we were getting ready to take off, another car pulled up behind us. they came out and they rushed us. so i told him to drive the car. i was looking for anybody who resembled those guys. and as soon as the opportunity arrived, wish it was all innocent victims. >> so it wasn't even the guys you were looking for. >> it wasn't even the guys. >> how many people were killed? >> i'm in here for one murder and four attempted murder. so i'm sentenced 35 to life. >> okay. >> i've been here 20 years now. >> okay. >> and it's a big, tremendous

amount of guilt that i hold. >> yeah. >> because my nephew's also here because of that. >> is he here in san quentin? >> he's here in san quentin. >> oh, wow. >> yeah. so, me being the older one, i took him down this path. >> the way a lot of us men define ourselves as men, if we feel like that's challenged -- >> yeah. >> -- it can lead to destructive behavior. >> it can definitely lead to violence and destructive behavior. >> because we put so much on what it is to be a man. >> way too much sometimes. >> the other thing that impresses me with the prisoners i've talked to so far is clearly you've all spent a lot of time talking about your issues. >> well, i think it's important to talk about it, and it's important for us to take ownership of what we've done. it is a part of you, it is who you are. however, with a better understanding, it doesn't have to be who you are today.

everyone in here says to do time you have to know how to kill time. and i'm not talking about a gang leader name time, i'm talking about killing time playing really overly complicated card games like pinochle, which is another application. thanks, mom. take me step by step. i know it's slowing you down. pop, pop, pop!

>> how are you going to grow up in america and not know how to play pinochle? >> is this a game common in prison? and why this game? >> because it's fun, time-consuming and a lot of people have nothing better to do than to sit around and make time go by. >> so that's why this game is so complicated because it takes time. can i ask, how long are you in for and what's your sentence? >> i'm currently incarcerated right now under the three strike law. i committed a nonviolent, non weapons involved, no physical injury, second-degree robbery. and you know the crazy thing? i got almost as much time as him, 30 years to life. >> can i ask you what the crime was, sir? >> first-degree murder. >> okay. >> i got a possession of a firearm and i'm doing almost double life, and they turned me into a career criminal where i've never been to a juvenile hall. but i like this prison.

>> out of the 35 state prisons in california, this by far is the best as far as educational self-help development programs, whereas at these other prisons, the resources aren't available. the programs aren't there. we worked our way down from those higher-level security institutions by obeying the rules, staying out of trouble, programming, doing what is necessary to get out of those places. >> but recognition about change, it seems like that's a hard thing for people to swallow because they don't think that we can actually change. >> i keep coming back to the fact that i believe it's because as long as i sit here, it's a paycheck for someone, you know what i mean? >> and that's exactly what it is. you hit the nail on the head. >> i see it here and here. >> yes, he did. when he made that statement, he told the truth, because a lifer is bread and butter for a whole lot of people who work for the department of correction. >> what they're talking about is

the business of prison. the u.s. spends around $70 billion a year on prisons. to put that in perspective, look at this chart. since 1986, we've increased spending on higher education by only 5.6%. not great. we increased spending on kindergarten to high school by 69%. sounds pretty good, right? but we've increased spending on prisons by a whopping 141%. and while we've got our charts out, let's look at another one. during that same time, the prison population has grown from around 300,000 in 1980 to over 1.6 million prisoners today. what's not good here? >> you go up those stairs, it's totally different. >> what's up those stairs? >> going to north block, going to our housing. >> i'm glad you guys are telling me the truth. >> yes. >> okay, but when you go home, you google pinochle. [ laughter ] >> those guys mentioned the living conditions here, i figui'd ask my new friend, juan haynes, managing editor at "the san quentin news," to give me a tour of his cell. it won't take long. >> this is the cell that i'm in. >> okay. >> you can go in there.

>> thank you. thank you. >> one of the things about these cells is, like, as you can see, as big as you are, two people can't stand down here at the same time normally. >> yeah. >> like, if i want to get down, then my celly lays over there so i can get by. >> you have to choreograph how you live in here. >> yeah. >> do you get to pick your roommate? >> technically no. >> okay. >> but the department understands that you have to. >> it's better if you are living with somebody that you want to live with, because -- >> yeah, yeah. you have to be able to deal with another person's personality in this close space. there's this term called cell slug. >> cell slug. >> yeah. that's a person that stays in the cell all the time and never leaves the cell, and so the other celly never gets any real privacy. >> i hate to bring it up, but we've got to talk about it. i think you know what i'm going to say -- >> what, that? >> the toilet. >> yeah. >> how? i mean, when i go to the bathroom, i like some privacy. i like to have my time. i like to be alone.

i don't want anybody talking to me. >> all right. the way most cellies negotiate that is if my celly needs to use the restroom, i'm going to find something to do. >> okay. >> he normally leaves at 6:30 in the morning. and so, my regular system is hooked up so after 6:30 i'm good to go. >> so, it's kind of like when women live together, their cycles all sort of align? when you live with a guy, you have to make sure you're not on the same gastrointestinal cycle? >> yeah. and finding the right celly, that's one of the big things. >> that's one of the big things. if you both have a -- >> yeah. when you leave -- >> oh, man. >> and that's the cell slug. that's where the cell slug comes in. >> thank you. we can step out of here. starting to get a little claustrophobic. one thing that's become clear to me in my time here is that every inmate is open to talking about the reason they're in san quentin, and not in a gossipy way or a defensive way, but in a taking responsibility way. how did you end up here? >> i was arrested in 1996 for a series of bank robberies in san

diego. >> you don't seem like a bank robber. >> right. i robbed the bank before and the lady said, "are you serious?" >> how did you do it? what was your process? >> the fbi gave me the moniker the brown bag bandit. >> you got a moniker, you got a name! >> that's cool, i still got the bag. no, it's not! >> i was like -- >> it's not the real bag! >> okay, okay. >> so, i'd have something like this, right? then i'd just write in like red marker, "i have a bomb. put the money in the bag." and she'd just open it up, put in a bunch of 50s and 20s, and then i'd walk out of the bank. >> wow. who was the person that you were back then who decided to rob a bank? how did you get to that decision? how did you get to that place? >> it's a part of that process that i look into myself to try to figure that out, because i don't see myself as a bank robber. >> yeah. >> why was i doing that? one of the tellers that i robbed

came in and testified against me and was crying on the stand and told me that terrified her whole life. >> yeah. >> and right there i was like, you know, it kind of hit me, knowing that i just ruined this woman's life. that's because of what i did. >> yeah. >> you know. but i couldn't process that the way i'm processing it right now. >> yeah. >> after my trial and conviction, i received a sentence of originally 85 years to life -- >> for bank robberies. >> yeah. and finally came to a realization when i came to prison what my impact is on this planet, you know, and it wasn't all good. >> 85 years to life for bank robbery may sound reasonable to you, but not to me. and even if it does sound good to you, how does juan sound? to me, he sounds contrite, responsible, and well, generally like a good dude who's made the most of his time. and yet, he's got no date for possible parole even on the books. ♪

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♪ at san quentin, i've been lucky to meet some prisoners who are clearly doing everything they can to better themselves. but let's be honest, there's a whole other side to this place that, frankly, the administration won't let me see. but i'm meeting back up with lieutenant sam robinson, who's decided to give me a little peek of how the other side lives. where are we? >> we are in our small management yard complex. >> small management yard complex. >> small management yard, exactly. these are individual yards designed for people who have security concerns here within the prison. so, whether it's someone that's

predatorial or someone that has -- we've identified to have some type of victimization type of issues, we place them on independent yard all by themselves to ensure the safety of them and the rest of our population. and many times, guys who have issues with other guys inside the prison, either they would stay in their cells themselves until those issues resolve themselves. >> okay. >> or they would go out and there would be drama out within the prison. >> so, is there anything in there with the inmate? >> what we generally do is our mental health team -- >> can we walk in one? >> sure, our mental health team -- >> and can we get out quickly once we're in? >> we can get out quickly. i'll assure that. >> okay. >> generally, a yard like this is for one person, but we'll improvise. it will be you and i. >> okay. >> and so, the guy inside that cell space, you really can't stretch out like this and walk around. so, this gives you an opportunity to get some circulation going. >> yeah. as a person, i like to pace a lot, so this would be the place

i would come and pace. >> you would come and pace. many times you see guys doing push-ups or burpees, talking to the guy that's in the yard just next to him. >> okay. >> they may be mortal enemies. >> and the sun is blocked out. >> in this area, yeah, because this was actually an after thought. this yard didn't exist here up until five or ten years ago. >> all right. so, i mean, it's funny. a lot of the things i've seen in this prison are things that i have seen in movies portrayed or in tv shows, but this is something i've never seen before. >> yeah, this is -- >> this is just, you know -- >> this is prison on a different level. >> prison on a different level. >> yeah. >> i'm going to go back to that prison on no level that i live. looking at those cages reminds me that even though san quentin is a level 2 prison, that this is still, well, a prison. and a lot of the ideas we get from movies about prison, the movies get from prison. and san quentin has had its share of riots and violence. which makes me wonder, who in the hell would want to work here?

apparently, this guy. he was busy and had the kind of energy that said, if you go too far, mr. comedian, i'm throwing you in the hole. so, you're d. robinson, a c.o. here? >> yes, a c.o. >> i notice from the uniform. i'm nervous, too. how long have you been here? >> i've been here 22 years now. >> 22 years, in san quentin? >> in san quentin. all my time here in san quentin. >> if you've been here 22 years, it's almost like you are doing time in san quentin. >> yeah. you're going to see chaos. it's loud, you'll see a lot of violence. you'll see things you're not necessarily going to see on the streets. when you're in here, you have to be prepared, just your mentality, to be able to maintain your sanity. >> is it hard to go home and let this all go? >> you definitely have to have an outlet. it's not easy, but you've got to have an outlet. >> having an outlet seemed like the key for inmates and employees alike, and one prisoner's gotten so good at his outlet on the inside that it has gotten him attention from the

outside. get ready to meet america's hottest and most unlikely financial adviser. tell me your name. >> my name is curtis carroll, but everyone calls me wall street. >> yeah, because in prison, there's the government name and there's what people call you. >> yeah. >> so, why do they call you wall street? >> 11, 12 years ago, i developed a financial literacy class at another institution i was at. >> how do you get of a point of a guy who knows all this stuff? >> my cellmate at that time used to read different publications to me. i didn't know how to read at the time. >> okay. >> one day i went to go get the sports page so he could read it to me, and i accidentally picked up the business section. and when i picked up the business section to walk off, another guy said, oh, what, you play the stock market? i was like, what's that? he said, oh, it's a place where all the white people keep their money. and when he told me that, i thought, okay. >> yeah, yeah. >> as i started to learn how to read, i started reading business publications, bill gates, warren buffett. that was kind of my thing at the time. >> yeah, yeah. >> the stocks developed on its own in a way. >> are you actually working with

money? >> yes, investment money for myself, family, friends. >> how does that work with the prison? because i know there's a thing where prisoners can't -- there's rules and regulations around that. >> i'm not running a company. >> okay. >> i trade stocks, right? >> okay. >> i get on the phone, call, talk to my family, you know, say hey, buy this, buy that, and they buy and they sell. >> and now you're on tv and in the newspaper and people are talking about you. and i hear they nicknamed you the oracle of san quentin? >> yeah. all i've done is just taken what's been available to me and i've packaged that and made it where it's really easy for guys to use and it's been, you know, a tool to be very, very successful. >> can i ask you another question? >> yes. >> how did you end up in prison? >> i was tried, taken to trial and found guilty of first-degree murder, attempted robbery and gun possession, and i was sentenced to 54 years to life in prison. >> 54 years to life. >> 54 years to life in prison, man. >> and how old were you? >> i was 17 years old. >> 17. 54 years. >> yeah, 54 to life in prison.

>> man. >> and people see that, they're like, wow, they're kids. but for me at this stage in my life, i work hard to move forward, right? >> are you making good money doing this, even from prison? >> yes, i'm making great money. >> okay. >> by prison standards, making millions! >> 40 cents an hour -- >> yeah, making millions. >> if you don't mind me saying, this is kind of nerdy. >> it's crazy, because the nerdy ones are the ones that's wealthy. >> yep. >> notice i didn't say rich, i said wealthy. >> yeah, wealthy is for nerds. >> the billions. >> now, have you ever heard the word blerd? have you ever heard that word? >> blurred, like blurred lines? >> no, like b-l-e-r-d. >> what's that mean? >> it's a word people are using, it's a black nerd. >> i like that, a black nerd! >> yeah, yeah, yeah.

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every man thinks he knows everything he needs to know about prison because he's seen the movie "shawshank redemption" 11 times. every time it's on tv, they sit down like, all right, let me keep studying. like, we really think "shawshank redemption" is what it would be and we cast ourselves in the main character, like would i be morgan freeman? no, andy dufrene.

probably go to prison, embezzle millions and then spend years trying to break out and then finally would break out and end up living on a beach in mexico, living with my best friend. it's like, would you do everything andy dufrene did? yeah. would you be sexually assaulted? everything but that. back in san quentin, juan said there's a man i should meet who knows all about rehabilitation and accountability, inmate ron self. self is a decorated former marine and founder of his own program here at the prison. the u.s. has over 200,000 incarcerated veterans. challenges like ptsd, unemployment and substance abuse contribute to these high numbers. ron's program helps them address tough issues in an environment of trust. it's called veterans healing veterans from the inside out. >> we were with juan, and he said, are they going to talk to any of the veterans? and i was just like, what do you mean veterans? like, it just didn't occur to me that, of course, everybody's in here. so i said, who should we talk to? and you were the first name that came up. how many veterans are here in

san quentin and what is their experience? >> there's like 362 main line. that's gp in blue on-the-yard veterans and we have 51 on death row. yeah, it's a large veterans population here. in the capacity of my job as the veterans liaison, for me, it's a way to help reduce the number of veterans coming to prison and the number of suicides. >> so, in a way, you're sort of continuing your service to the country through your service here in san quentin? >> yes. >> yes. and how long have you been incarcerated? >> i came to prison in 1997. >> 1997. >> i was in the marine corps from '87 up to '97. >> and what were you incarcerated for? >> conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder. >> how does that guy go from in the newspaper as a hero to a person who ends up incarcerated? >> we were all given an opportunity to defend this country at one time. clearly, by the fact that we came to prison, we did something we shouldn't have, so we violated that trust.

and i think the nation as a whole has a right to expect better of me. >> and talk about why you feel like it's important to give back. >> i think i can speak for all veterans, we just want to give back and redeem ourselves and make up for whatever shame that we brought to our branch of service, for me the marine corps. and i think san quentin prison is probably the best example for that. they make it possible for us to give back and they'll help you, and that's something that is unprecedented that happens at this prison that i haven't seen at any other prison. >> do you have a possible parole date? >> i go to the board this december. >> how's that feel? >> this is strange. i want to get out so i can come back. [ laughter ] >> you don't mean recidivism. >> no, i mean i found my calling in life. and that is doing these therapy programs with veterans and other prisoners. >> one thing is clear, you are

proud of your service and are a veteran that still wants to serve its country. >> very much. >> and i wish you luck in december. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. now, i understand that the prisoners i'm meeting have had years to change from the people they once were. and while it may be easy for me to forgive them, i also understand why those directly affected by their crimes might not ever be able to, but there is a man here hoping to change people's views on the men and women in prison, father george williams, san quentin's catholic priest and a man with forgiveness in his job description. talk to me about the people on the outside who go, they did this horrible thing that defines them, they should be in prison for as long as the cells have room for them. >> well, there have been men here since the '70s and i say, how many of the people watching this program are the same person they were in 1978? we all change. i think the greatest tragedy in our culture is that we've found a way to kind of throw people away and ignore them. and it goes against my values as

a christian, but i think it goes against our values as americans that these are people, these are our fellow citizens, and there's so many of them, and disproportionately men of color, and it's wrong. i think really, prison i think nowadays should be a call to us to look at ourselves, to search our souls and say, we're doing something wrong here. we're not treating our brothers and sisters the right way, and we need to change. we need to live up to the ideals of what made us americans in the first place. >> it's powerful to hear that coming from a member of the cloth. and i don't think i do have a vote, but you have my vote as next pope, if that comes up. i'll throw up the black smoke for you. [ laughter ] known for its perfect storm of tiny bubbles,

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♪ during my time at san quentin, i've met all sorts of people working hard to rehabilitate themselves, not for us on the outside, but for themselves. and before i leave, rashawn reminds me that there's one thing i have yet to experience, chow time. can't we just order in? >> so, this is the chow hall. >> okay. >> now, there's two choices tonight. >> yes. >> all right? i usually get the religious meat alternative. >> okay. >> which is hot dogs, turkey dogs. >> okay. >> or they've got chili mac on the main line. >> chili mac on the main line. >> which do you prefer? >> i'll try the chili mac. >> the chili mac? grab a tray. so, this is what i get.

the next fill is at 5:30 a.m. >> and it's 5:00 right now and this is your last meal of the day. >> 5:00 and this is my last meal of the day. >> 5:00 p.m. for dinner? there are days i don't eat lunch until 5:00 p.m. >> i don't even like the turkey hot dogs. let's see you try it. let's see you try it, man. >> all right. all right. >> look at that. you can do it. >> i can do it. i can do it. [ laughter ] >> it's hot. >> it's hot, yeah, yeah. >> and this is -- >> carrots. >> how's that taste? >> what is on it? >> well, we would like to know, too. [ laughter ] >> it sort of feels like a lunch that like a middle school kid would eat. >> i come eat whatever they give me and i come back and make myself a soup. they have ramen soup for 25 cents each, so. >> yeah, because i feel like if you eat this, you'll be hungry

in two hours. or if you don't eat this, you'll be hungry in 15 minutes. so, we're here in san quentin and we're talking to people about all the programs and rehab, but the message i keep getting is this is a unique situation. >> yeah. >> with the lack of programs at other prisons, it's got to be really hard. you could fall into a bad cycle there just by virtue of the bad shit going down. >> you could get caught up in riots and wanting help and needing help and not being able to get it. i've found that with that help, it makes a big difference. >> you can see the door is locked. so the officer in a few minutes when he sees everything has died down, he'll say last call and everybody's got to get up and leave. >> one catch, though, you can't leave until you eat all your food. >> hey, that's not a rule. that's a "san quentin news" rule. i'm sitting at the "san quentin news" table. >> you've got to feel like us. >> i feel like one of you. i think as much about this food as you think about it. >> one, two, three! make us look good!

>> it's game day for the san quentin team taking on a team from the bay area. looking at this scene, it feels like any major league baseball game in america. there are fans, security, half the players are criminals. what do you say to people at home right now watching us sitting here on a sunny day, watching us play baseball, enjoying ourselves? what do you say to people who think that's not what prison should be about? >> what i tell them is, first of all, everything you see on tv and the picture that's been painted about who prisoners are, we're more than that. that doesn't define who we are. that was a snapshot in our life. it was an obvious bad choice, and we're here paying our dues. we're human and we're here trying to do what is necessary to make amends for the harm that we committed in society. >> my time at san quentin has come to an end, and i want to say good-bye to all the guys

i've met at the paper. what's up, fellas? hey, man. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> looks like this is our last day here. >> hey, buddy. >> good to meet you, man. >> good to meet you, man. >> that's it? >> that's it. that's it. i've got my parole date, yeah. to be real. thanks for being so open and honest and telling your stories. you know, you guys are doing great work in here. and when you guys get out, i hope the doors open up for you to do this great work elsewhere. >> hey, hey, man. [ laughter ] >> hey, hey, welcome back, brother. [ laughter ] >> you don't want to see me come to the gate like this, just see you in the yard, like, hey, guys. >> you definitely won't walk out the gate with that. [ laughter ] >> all right, man. >> yeah. >> thanks, fellas. >> bye!

>> as i walked out the doors of san quentin, i realized i was actually sad to leave. by many people's definition, maybe even mine when i got here, these dudes are hardened criminals. but after spending time here, i see many of them as men who made mistakes. many of them when they were teenagers. men who will spend 20 years or more working hard to change who they were and to expand their own personal definitions of who they are now. like duck said, rehabilitation has led to rehabilitated. but for most of the guys i met, they aren't getting out. and if you feel good about that, then you need to rewind this show and watch it again. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is the old san quentin dungeon, dark room, ball and chain. >> i see graffiti in there. is that from 1938? >> that's not from 1938, no. construction workers occupy the dungeon for supplies, equipment, and --

>> and they left some of their tools? >> someone left their tags behind. >> a couple tags inside of there, yeah. >> i just want to be clear, that graffiti is not 1938 graffiti? >> no, that's not 1938. >> i didn't want people to think you were pulling okey doke on me. we haven't used this since three weeks ago. one of america's favorite pastimes is lumping groups of people together. you know what i'm talking about, like the whole idea of minorities. let's take all the people who are darker than vin diesel and call them minorities. [ laughter ] it doesn't make any sense. because we have so many cultures and languages and religions and things. the only thing that really bonds minorities together is that we believe that if you're going to eat pork you got to use all the pig. you know what i mean? [ laughter ] you can't just be like the white people and scrape off the bacon and the ribs and throw the rest away. you've got to get in that pig. pickle that, let's brine that, let's barbecue that. suck on that toenail.