new. is new always better though? that's the question we might find ourselves debating in the years ahead. i'm fareed zakaria. thanks for watching. i'll see you next week. >> hey, i'm brian stelter. merry christmas eve to you and your family. it's time for "reliable sources," our weekly look at the story behind the story, of how the media really works and how the news gets made. today is a special edition, a chance to critically examine president trump's relationship with the press at the one-year mark. our alternative facts the new normal? are partisan extremes here to stay? and what's the significance of all the leaks to news outlets this year? and later, it's the one end of the year list that you don't want to end up on. politifact's top editor is here to share the lie of the year. i want to take you back in time. so much has happened this year. it's easy toe forget some of the

shocking developments. for example, when you hear these words, are you still shocked? >> have a running war with the media. they are among the most dishonest human beings on earth. >> that is how it began on trump's very first day waking up in the white house, he turned on the tv and he turned angry at what he saw. journalists were pointing out that the audience for his inauguration was smaller than obama's, so trump fired backings, exaggerating his crowd size and then sending sean spicer out to defend him. trump even described the inauguration weather inaccurate and said the skies became really sunny after his speech and it remained cloudy and started to rain a little bit. i think that's a metaphor for the year. trump painted a picture of the american carnage and said he alone could fix it, believing his world was always sunny. when trump played loose with the facts and journalists challenged with him, he couldn't stand it. here's an example you've

probably forgotten. this is from february. >> the murder rate in our country is the highest it's been in 47 years, did you know that, 47 years? i used to use that -- i would say that in a speech and everybody was surprised because the press doesn't tell it like it is. it wasn't to their advantage to say that. >> it wasn't to our advantage to say that because it wasn't true. obviously fact checkers jumped into action trying to counter the claim that he was making about the murder rate. but, you know, trump's really cynical sinister view of journalism that we don't really want to tell the people the truth, it came through in his comments all year long. here's another example. >> radical islamic terrorists are determined to strike our homeland. it's gotten to a point where it's not even being reported, and in many cases vet, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it. they have their reasons, and you understand that. >> there he is telling members of the u.s. military that the

press was intentionally downplaying, even covering up terrorist attacks. if anything, the opposite is true. all year long i heard anchors and reporters and editors reaching for new ways to say that's not true and that makes no sense, and all year long i heard the president coming up with new ways to call us the enemy. >> we are fighting the fake news. it's fake, phony, fake. a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. >> that was february. now let's fast forward all the way to august. >> truly dishonest people in the media and the fake media. they make up stories. they have no sources in many cases. they say a source says. there is no such thing, but they don't report the facts. >> some people have gotten numb to this, but these are really sinister claims from a world leader and totally unsupported by the real facts.

heck, there were times this year that i used white house aides has anonymous sources because the aides would not speak on the record. journalists don't go around making up sources but the onus was and is on us in the press to better explain why we do what we do, for example, why we agree to keep sources anonymous sometimes, how we've had our facts. trump's daily media attacks have been a challenge and an opportunity so when he says something like this -- >> it's frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write and people should look into it. >> yes, yes, look in it. i think the more that you know about how newsrooms know and journalists work are the more likely you are to know that it's not fake. one of the president's favorite words, fake. he will told his supporters all year long that the press was out to get him, out to take him down and many people believe it. the country is split on this

question, and it's an ongoing issue for newsrooms. so let's bring in an all-star panel of decision-makers and newsroom leaders, sally busaby is the executive editor of the associated press, john avlon is daily editor of "the daily beast requests" as well as analyst here at known and joanne lipman is with the usa network and editor of "usa today." and author of the upcoming back "that's what she said." let's talk about trump's attacks on the media and the responses. this is your first year as editor of the a.p. but before that you were at the a.p. for many years. was this a challenging year to become an editor? >> this was a challenging year, no question. both the extent of the interest in the trump story globally, and i think that's one thing that's very important, not just americans who pay an enormous amount of attention to this.

people all over the world pay attention to the trump presidency and it's difficult to get factual information out of this administration. it's provided a lot of new challenges to reporters. >> yeah. >> but it's also been such an important year, so important for the values that journalists hold dear, the importance of facts, and in some instances there have been a lot of challenges. it's been sort of an inspiring year in a sense in a way that i personally believe that consumers of news are actually seeking out good journalism and actually understand its values so for many our journalists there's been affirmation too as well. >> joanne, are you seeing that? >> we're seeing there an interest in legit journalism, but i would also say, one of the most important things within the media itself is to understand, is to not internalize what we're hearing. when we have attacks on the press from the president or anyone else, it's so important not to internalize that and to --

>> well, let's be honest. that happened sometimes, didn't it? people took it too personally? >> not just personally, but to take on the mantle of being the enemy, which the press is not. the press -- our job is to shine a light in dark corners and hold the powerful to account no matter who the powerful are, and that's what we have to continue to do. >> marty baron, the head of "the washington post" said we're not at war with the administration, we're at work. john, do you believe most people believe, that that we're not at war with trump. >> >> i hope so because that's really fundamentally what's happening here. we are a guarantor of liberty. we are the not the enemy of the american people the founding fathers provided a check for the power grabs. people are also being remind that had they can't take democracy for granted, that the free press isn't free, and that itself has an invigorating effect that i think is the silver lining we can tame from all these conflicts because this

is sort of advanced civics people are experiencing in real time. a lot of old civics are democracy are being pushed back at home and around the world so this is the time for the free press to stand up and citizens to stand up and get involved because the alternative is too terrible to imagine. >> trump certainly has forced conversations about profound issues, right? >> yeah. >> we're talking the most important basic values that we all may share or not share. there's been stories this year about race and class and gender that have affected the white house, so in a way he's enabled or -- or encouraged some really important soul-searching. >> yeah, you know, there must be a pony in here somewhere, and -- and i think there are silver linings. i do think people are taking more civic responsibility, and i think you're seeing that in subscription rates. people subscribing to newspapers and joining membership models they hadn't before. they were taking for granted news content is free, and now

they understand that they need to stand up and support independent journalism, that scoops matter and investigative journalism matter and that's what holds power to account and there's great controversy and we're beset by social media trolls and it's a bit of a novelty to be attacked by the president of the united states and journalists personally but we have to realize that we have a gift of the fact that our mission is clearer than ever right now. >> thinking back to january and february versus now there was a lot more anxiety in the year among journalists, a lot more uncertainty about what a trump administration is going to mean. is it fair to say, sally, the worst fears that some journalists have not actually been realized? there's not been an explosion of libel lawsuits and the press hasn't been kicked on in the west wing and cameras are still on in the briefing room after a period when they were turned off. our worst fears have not been realized. >> there's been truth to this. we did not get kicked out of the white house. do i still have some concerns about, i mean, the department of justice has said that there are

a lot of leaks investigations going on, for example. we have some indication that the department of justice is still looking at some ways to sort of potentially eliminate some of the protections that have guided reporters in legal fights and things like that, and a lot that have is still up in the oh. i think there's also frankly a lot of -- journalists have actually kept their nose to the grindstone fairly well and chased facts, and i think that that has been the best thing that's happened this year. every time we get distracted into sort of what i would call not terribly important fights with the white house, it takes us away from our main mission which is to go out there and find out what is actually going on. what is the impact of the policy changes that are being made? what is happening inside the white house? what is actually factually happening? and within our organization we've tried to say to not get distracted by some of these more, you know, sensational but not necessarily as important disputes that have been going on

and try to keep your focus on what is really happening in this administration and your duty to report that. >> that's opinion the most important thing i think this year that i've repeated again and again to our newsrooms is that we've got to keep our eye on the ball, on the issues that are important, on the president's actions, not simple police on the president's tweets. >> a researcher found that since 2015 the new president has posted about 1,000 anti-media messages on twitter so it does pile up. it does have an effect. john, think it's a poisonous thing that he's constantly calling real outlets fake news but to some degree that's also a distraction. >> yeah. it's absolutely our responsibility not to be distracted by things that are intended to be distractions, to focus on the facts what have actually impacts people, not just radioactive rhetoric, but, you know, the larger issue that i think we need to confront is something quite sinister and the president is an advocate, blurring the lines between fact and fiction. fake news in the context of the

2016 campaign is something real, stories written with the intent to deceit. sometimes for profit, sometimes for propaganda and had an impact on the election via social media. for the president to try to take that term back and direct it at credible news outlets, places filled with imperfect human beings but who do check facts, who do correct mistakes and who are pursuing truth every day >> what about the perception that the journalists are so sloppy and making mistakes all the time? if you watch sean hannity's show as often as i do you must think journalists are an evil species constantly screwing up on purpose to hurt the president? >> right, and that would be false but sean hannity lives in a glass throne somewhere. >>in? did have reason resign and seen errors at other major news outlets as well. brian ross was suspended as well. >> those are corrected and standards matter and when people make mistakes they take it into account. you shouldn't overcorrect because you'll never please all

folks. the source of the objection is an administration led by a president who lies at an uncommon rate especially compared to other presidents, so this disregard for truth got to flow both ways. it's coming from the president, not from the press, and we need to remain steadfast and insisting on a fact-based debate and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and not their own facts. >> can i just add on the concept of fake news, something that's very dangerous as a meme. i've instituted a rule at "usa today" and the usa network which is 109 local noups like "the detroit free press" and the arizona republic. we don't use that phrase because it's not correct, right. there's false information. there's propaganda. we need to call it what it is, but, again, by internalizing that phrase and remeeting it ourselves it's a real misnomer. it's not news. >> quick break. let's keep this going after a quick commercial break. on the other side, we'll look

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to clean away odors for up to 30 days. breathe happy with febreze. welcome back to this special edition of "reliable sources," the press and the president. one of the themes of this year has been the assault on truth. the end of every year i love going back and look at what we covered and how, kind of like a self-evaluation, and when i went back and looked at january, our program from the weekend of trump's inauguration was like a time capsule. i asked a bunch of questions pertaining to the trump white house and the media. i asked will president trump deny reality on a daily basis? will he make up his own false facts and fake stats and if so what are the consequences? well, given the recent reports that he's questioned the authenticity of the "access hollywood" tape, i would have to say yes, there is some denial of reality. now trump's critics say a lot of this is ultimately about maybe his own insecurities, that he

wants to project a winning image. that's why i think the single most inconvenient truth of the trump era, the truth he can't escape is from all the way back last year. remember 2016, losing the popular vote to hillary clinton, losing by millions of votes contradicts all of the white house's claims about how the american people spoke and chose him so strongly. so for chump, well, he opts for an alternate reality. one. very first leaks of the year, one of the very first things sources anonymously told reporters is back on january 23rd. it was about how trump are falsely told lawmakers that millions of illegal ballots had actually cost him the popular vote. do you remember this? this was a big scandal? he was claiming 3 million people had voted illegally. actual little bill o'reilly of all people asked him for proof. >> so you think you're going to be proven correct in that statement. >> well, i think i already have. a lot of people have come out and said i'm correct. >> the data has to show that 3

million illegal voted. >> forgot that. forget all of that. >> forget he said and change the the subject, but i don't think we should forget it. after all, this is part of the reason why the government set up a voter fraud commission. to this day trump continues to tout his electoral college victory, you know, during his first and only solo press conference at the white house back in february he said he had the biggest electoral college landslide since ronald reagan and during the press conference nbc peter alexander correct and checked on the president leading to this. >> why should americans trust you when you accuse the information they receive of being fake when you're providing information that's -- >> well, i don't know, i was given that information. >> that's absolutely not a good enough answer, but nearly a year later alexander's questions still apply. why should americans trust you? of course, that same question applies to all of us, so now my question for the panel is if truth was the biggest casualty of 2017.

still here at the table sally busby, john of a von and joanne lipman. john, in this choose your own news environment, do fact checks and corrections really break through? >> they should. they should. we need for fact checks and reality checks from anchors when people come on air and starts spinning and that applies to the press secretary and the president as well. is truth biggest casualty of 2017? think it's the right term. it's wounded but not dead. >> okay, all right. >> we need to keep fighting for truth because facts do matter and we need to insist on it and when we're confronted with spin, what we're being confronted by the president's surrogates and staffers and the president himself goes well beyond the typical kind of spin that we've seen from former presidents. there's a steady stream of the fake stats you predicted before the inauguration and we need to confront that and that can helped turn america's civic backboefnlt the press'

credibility is compromises as well as we need to know that. prmp president trump has anything accelerated this and accelerated it. >> look at how the president has communicated, twitter a popular source and what about good old-fashioned press conferences. when was the last time the president said down with the a.p.? we haven't seen a big sit-down interview. >> there's no question that the president has south out friendly interviewers. other presidents have done that. it's been pretty intense this year, i think, and i think the public is as, john said, it's very divided in the news sources that it goes to, so you can get away with, you know, quite a lot of that and of not answering sort of honest questions. >> when our talking about truth though, we have to talk at a much larger context. this is not just talking about the presidency or the white house. we're talking about a year in the last couple of years where we've seen social media being weaponized by russia and by

other actors. i mean, facebook acknowledged that 126 million of us, that's a third of the united states population, have been exposed to false reports posted by russian actors and by others, and so that also degrades trust. it's really -- this goes well beyond the white house. >> russia's effort to affect the election was classic, designed to muddy fact from fiction, designed to confuse people and demoralize people and that's why it's so dangerous to democracy and that's why we have to fight back. the fight is happening on multiple fights right now. it's a good fight to defend democracy from misinformation but we should not take for granted the cy verrett of it because it's happening from foreign actors? it's happening from the federal government. it's happening via social media. >> joan, it's almost christmas.

normally presidents hold an end of the year press conference. does it matter that we haven't seen president trump use that solo format that other presidents have in the past? >> you know, the president's protests and the rest of us hear from him very regularly so typically that end of the year press conference raps up. it's a chance for president to talk about his hey chiefments. president trump talks directly with the population so i would expect, that you know, we hear from him every day as it is. >> right. >> but we're not able to answer questions every day other than shouting them to him when he walks to and from the helicopter. >> he views himself the way fdr used radio and jfk used tv. he uses twitter. >> and when he does give interviews it's only on fox news? >> the confirmation boyce and environment we're confronting in media, and that's also one of the real challenges because we need to all box our way out of

that. we need to figure out as journalists i think thinking in a deeper way how to we onnize facts. >> he decided not to fill out a march madness bracket for espn and skipped the correspondents dinner and skipped the kennedy center honors ant hasn't gone on any late night shows and talk shows so it's more than just talking to fox or avoiding press conferences. he's not using the kinds of entertainment outlets arthur to reach the population. >> and yet at the same time i think we've seen late night comics get much more topical and political. >> and anti-trump. >> anti-trump. the colbert show's resurgence, the year of the colbert show, rocketing to the top of late night because he didn't back away or talk down to the audience. we saw john oliver and jimmy kimmel getting very political about health care and personal about his child that

reallyriesnatereallyrie resonated. >> and people soak up information that way. panel, stick around. much more after the break here. we'll look at data involving polarization, involving people in their own bubbles and silos. what can be done to burst our bubbles. resolution #1: binge more. join the un-carrier, and get four unlimited lines for forty bucks each. with netflix included. watch however you want. on your phone, tablet, or tv. let's rock this joint!

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this is gallup data. notice the red and blue lines here. democrats trust and confidence in the media has jumped this year from 451% in 2016 to 72% this year. but you'll see the red line has fallen even further down. now let's look at the overall percentage of trust in the media when you take those two lines and merge them together you see there has been an overall uptick in trust in the media but the number is still low and the uptick is only thanks to democrats. for more on this lets me bring in s.ekupp, the host of "unfiltered" on hln. the democrats trust in the press has spiked up this year and i'm sure that doesn't surprise >> you not at all as the media has collectively taken donald trump to task and focuses often and frequently on his errors, his inaccuracies and -- and in some corners really demonized him and some of his policies. it's no surprise that democrats are trusting the press more than

they had in the past and equally no surprise that republicans are increasingly skeptical. now, republicans have always been skeptical of the media writ large, the mainstream media as they like to say and for good reason. the mainstream media has been largely liberal for a long time. now, of course, you and i know the rise of fox news has sort of put a dent in that argument because conservatives certainly have a huge platform and position and a big microphone through fox news and -- and conservative radio, conservative digit a. digital. conservatives get heard, is and they are compensated well for their media appearances and their media jobs, but there still is an overall impression that the media is a liberal place and frankly i don't think -- i think that the trump presidency has really sort of sharpened that into focus for a lot of conservatives >> ten years ago it was sarah

palin calling the press the lame stream media, the liberal lame stream media and trump has all these various insults that he used against the media. do you think it has had a corrosive effect this year? >> i do. look, you know, i was talking to cokie roberts, a veteran journalist, about this recently, and she said, look, the media doesn't need to be popular. that's not our job, and so we shouldn't necessarily worry about popularity or our approval in the polls, but the poll that you talked about is trust, and that should matter to the media. so when donald trump villainizes the press writ large, that's dangerous. not because it hurts our feelings, not dangerous because people dislike us. it's dangerous because it undermines the real importance of this pillar of democracy, a strong, credible free press, and he does it with lots of different institutions to try to undermine the trust in them so

that he is the only entity that is -- that is trusted by the public. the popular dictator tactic frankly, not to sound, you know, overly dramatic. it is what people do, but with particular -- with particular attention to the press. he is really trying to erolled trust, and it seems to be working. >> he used the "d." word. i've been thinking about the "a" words. autocrassy. there were a lot of concerns earlier in the year about whether we were seeing an authoritarian drift led by trump. frankly, i don't know, the end of the year how much i agree with that or not. what's your take? >> certainly when it comes to some in the media. i have watched a lot -- >> meaning people talk about it. >> when you watch fox news, for example, one of the hallmarks of, you know, an autocracy, of

authoritarians is having a press that's very friendly and a press that -- >> celebrating the dear leader. >> yeah. >> that the ruler can go to knowing he'll have a friendly audience, knowing he won't be challenge the, and it's not just fox news that has become a very -- too comfortable home for donald trump. i have plenty -- i know plenty of conservative journalists who i enjoy and respected who have really decided to sort of cover for the president. that's dangerous, too. that's just as dangerous as liberal bias. it's just as dangerous as fake news. so, you know, the hallmarks of autocracy and authoritarian regimes are not just on the side of the president of donald trump, but you see that sometimes in the press as well. >> now when programs like this one talk about authoritarianism or question the president's mental fitness, does that just cause further distrust in the press and make the pohlization even worse and worse and worse? >> well, look, you know.

we all have to shy away from the kind of hyperbole of the kind that the president himself uses. it's not simmon when he does it, buff definitely not responsible when we do it. i think that's completely fair to have an analytical conversation about some of the normalizing of the way the president treats the press and vice versa and how dangerous that might be. to point out where we see, you know, hallmarks of authoritarianism, i think that's honest and fair. we don't have to, you know, we don't have to fret that america is going to become a dictatorship. we have checks and balances and we are one of those checks and balances but it's fair to pretend all of this is normal, to pretend that we can just sort of lay this administration, an overlay over the last and trace around the subtle differences, no. there's -- there's no what i to do that, so i think we have to have honest, fair, challenging

conversations without getting crazy and hysterical and hyperventilate about it. >> you're a conservative columnist and you told me offline you even have members of your own family who is what, a traitor to the movement, not pro trump enough? >> yeah, but i'm fake news. >> yeah. >> so what happens around the table when you're at home for the holidays? >> you know, i mean, none of them mean it maliciously, but we have spirited debates. look, i can handle it. you don't always want, you know, the twitter trolling to continue at home around the dinner table but i can handle it. i've got thick skin. frankly, you know, it's nice to check in with people who don't think like i do this on because you know as well as i do in this building, a lot of people tend to see things in a certain way, both because we're in the media and in new york city, et cetera, so it's -- you know, i -- i'm actually -- it's nice to interest a reminder of the way that i think a lot of people in the country are looking at the

news, not necessarily the way that we do. >> it's fun to go home. by the way in, january i saw -- you booked sean spitzer what, for january 4th on your show? >> for an hour. >> how can you book him? he hasn't been on tv much since leaving the white house. >> it's really organic. he tuned in to "se kupp unfiltered" and he texted me and said your show is great. i love the format, the spirit. it's friendly, polite and civil and it's interesting, and i said, great, come on. you know, i'll clear the decks, you can come on for an hour and we'll talk about your last year, of course, and, you know, probably ask him some tough questions but then let's move on where you do that show and get to ask some fun questions of some interesting guests and we kind of get to, you know, do our own little thing for an hour. i think that's going to be really fun. >> january 4th, 5:00 p.m. >> tune in. >> i'll be watching. >> s.e., thanks for being here.

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it's fake news, a hoax, just a lie perpetuated by losers. that's what president trump said all year long when it came to questions about russian interference in the u.s. election hand whether any members of his campaign had a hand in it. but guess what?

politifact says that's the lie of the year. yes, the claim that trump has made over and over again, that russian interference is a made-up story. politifact says that was the biggest whopper of them all. joining me now from washington to discuss this is the editor of politifact. angie, great to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> you had so many options to choose from this year so why this one on the list of shame? >> well, it was repeated over and over again by president donald trump. he would say it as a defense of charges against collusion, which i should emphasize we're not saying there was collusion. that's unproven. what we're saying this russian interference definitely happened, and president trump has said several times that it hasn't. well, it has, and it really goings to the heart of american democracy and our elections and how we decide who to pick to be our leaders in congress and in the white house. >> and his reputation.

repeating it over and over again calling it a hoax does have an impact. i want to talk to you about that in a minute, but, first, for the runners up, a couple rirps up that we can put on screen. in second place, a rope can congressman raul labrador saying nobody dies because they don't have access to health care. tell me about this one. >> this is one we're very dubious about. there have been studies whether people have great he can air outcomes on certain types of insurance but the idea that nobody dies because they don't have access to he can sayre wrong and we talked to numerous researchers who said yeah, no. >> angie, you went on a trip in several different states talking to voters about how they perceive fact checks, tulsa, mobile. what did you learn on these trips? >> well, we wanted to talk to voters who voted for donald trump and might be open to learning more about fact

checking because we've seen survey data that says that trump voters are very suspicious of the media generally, and they are also suspicious of fact checking so we thought if we met them hand listened to their concerns we might learn better ways to do our job. they could hear about how we do our jobs and maybe be more open-minded to our reports. and the interactions were very positive. it's like when we get out from behind our computers and sit down face to face with people and have a conversation, it works really well. we just have to figure out how to scale that up. >> so many people were receptive. at the same time, i don't mean to be a pessimist here on christmas eve, but i sometimes wonder if there's a, poverty country that is unreachable by fact checkers, that there's a portion of the country that does not want to hear any of the real news that's negative about the trump administration. has that been your experience as well? has that been your finding? >> i think there is a portion of partisans who do not want to

listen to independent journalism. they see their political identification as part of who they are, and so, no, they are not open, and i don't think fact checkers are going to reach those people, but our reports might reach their friends, their family, people who could influence them and what we're hoping to do as fact checkers is just get accurate, credible, vet the information into the hands of voters so that they can make better decisions about who they want to support and how they want to see the country governed. >> people spreading misinformation or ignoring fact checks, it's not exclusive to one side. your site reminded me about that video of trump greeting a disabled boy at the white house. there were claims that trump had snubbed the boy and ignored the boy because he had a disability and i remember j.k. rowling shared that video with millions of followers and lots of liberals shared it and thought it was real. you all had to publish a fact check about that one as well. >> we fact checked that and rated it pants on fire because when you looked at the whole video you would see when president trump came in, he greeted the boy and gave him

special attention. he didn't ignore him at all, but i think that goes to the political polarization and for the people who have the strongest politically held opinions, they are not willing to give the other side the benefit of the doubt at all. >> yeah. and that's definitely a problem going forward as we head into the mid-term election season. age i, thanks so much for being here. >> thanks for having me. up next on this special edition of "reliable sources," the press and the president. what were the biggest lessons learned in the first year of the trump presidency? our super panelist of tough editors is back in a moment. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. you give us comfort. and we give you bare feet, backsweat, and gordo's... everything. i love you, but sometimes you stink.

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president trump in the media. some say president trump versus the media. before we go here this morning, what are some of the lessons that each of our editors on the panel have learned over the past year. i'm sure there's quite a few, so let's bring back joanne lipman, john avalon, and sally buzzby. what are you telling your journalists at the end of this year? >> it's a great question. washington reporting and what is happening in the trump administration is really the most important thing that's happening in the world at this moment. what we try to constantly talk to our journalists about is make sure you are not just focusing

on that. there are things that are happening in the world, the rise of china's influence, what russia is doing, what people outside of washington in america actually think about what is going on in their country. and don't become obsessed with that just that one story. go out and say what's the impact of the policy decisions that are being made? cover the world and make sure that people aren't losing sight of all these things. the accountability journalism in washington is -- has been and is likely to continue being the most important thing that we do in the coming year. it is what is of interest to the globe. but make sure you're talking to real people too. make sure you're showing your work and you're trying to engage your audiences, and if we are worried about building trust for news organizations, make sure that they know how you report out a story so that they can have firsthand information about whether the facts that you're telling them are real or not. >> be transparent. joanne, what about you? >> i would agree with this. we really have to think about the audience first, right? what is the information that

people need to act on and that they care about every day? and while, you know, we in the press do have something of an obsession with washington, that the rest of the world and the rest of this country have many, many other incredibly important issues that have to do with their own lives, with employment, with health care. you know, "usa today" network today -- as i mentioned, "usa today" is the flagship. we also have 109 local news organizations. and these local news organizations, half our audience is red. half is blue. they have different political viewpoints, but they share a real interest in a lot of these issues that affect their lives, and they don't want to read a front page every day that is all trump all the time. they want to understand what they should be looking for. how are they going to pay for college for their kids, you know, what is the quality of the education? what is the quality of their health care? how will they get access to it? these are so many other issues that we need to focus on. >> john, what's been underreported? what's been missed in all these conversations? >> we really do need to focus on

original reporting and investigations, and you have to do it in a way that makes important stories interesting to people. you have to educate, and that's fine, but we need to keep in mind that larger mission right now. it's not just a mission to the united states. you know, we talked about fake news earlier, that term that the president's proliferated. by some counts, there are 24 journalists in jail around the world today on charges of fake news. so on a christmas eve, with he need to keep them in mind and recognize that what we're fighting for when we're standing up for facts, it's not a partisan concern. this is something deeper, and it's the fight worth having. >> thank you so much for being here. happy holidays, and thank you all for tuning in today. for christmas, i'm taking my 7-month-old on a road trip home to see family, so wish me luck. i'll see you right back here next week for a special new year's eve edition. "state of the union indication starts right now.

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choose by the gig or unlimited. xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. call, visit, or go to xfinitymobile.com. sweeping tax bill. president trump celebrates his first major legislative victory. >> it's the largest tax cut in the history of our country. it's always a lot of fun when you win. >> but democrats are hoping voters won't buy what the republicans are selling. >> it is a victory for billionaires like donald trump. this is a disaster for the american people. >> one of the biggest critics of the new tax law, senator bernie sanders, is here next. plus, another swipe. president trump taking aim at his predecessors. >> we have done