obstruction of justice prosecution. there is the allegation that sessions planned a smear campaign against james comey with some of the efforts taking place supposedly just days before comey's firing. according to the "new york times," an aide asked about whether the staffer had any derock tori information about the fbi director. sessions wanted one negative story a day according to the paper. the justice department deny this is happened. dets talk more about these revelations and both the russia investigation and the trump administration. here with us are pamela brown, analyst laura coates and gloria borger. we knew the president was upset with the attorney general when we refused himself, but this goes a step further. >> it does.

he told the white house counsel to visit jeff sessions and tell him not to recuse himself and according to the times when don mcgann toll the president that sessions is going to recuse himself, the president explodes. its you about the world the president thinks the has. he believes the attorney general should be his personal lawyer and his defender and protector. i believe it was in michael wolff's book he wants the attorney general to be like roy cohn. he was very controversial and that was trump's attorney. he was kind of an attorney that defended at all costs. that's what trump wants. that's what he wants his attorney general to be. he doesn't want the attorney general to represent the people of the us, but the lawyer to

represent him and gives you an insight as to how it was expanding under a special counsel. >> this is a big deal. >> it's a huge deal. what's clear is that the president's erratic behavior and obsessiveness about this investigation goes back to him and that he has brought so much of this on himself. if there is no evidence of collusion and that the russians tilted the election, we are seeing more and more evidence that the president's own actions accelerated perhaps tilted the scales of this investigation against him. he hired the fbi director because he wanted to say one thing about eric holder that he was loyal it obama and that's what he want out of sessions. he was ignorant about the judiciary for that matter. we will go back to the instances and he also wants to shut down

the publication of this book like you are on the desk. she kind of lashing out approximate it comes back to one place. he had his own worst enemy. >> he asked his white house counsel to go and tell sessions don't recuse yourself. what if anything is wrong with that? >> there is a lot wrong with that. it's the white house counsel whose job it is to protect the office of the presidency. not the specific occupant. as journalists, you ask who, what, when, where. what was your intent and why did you want the insulation. did you have corrupt intent? was there a reason you wanted jeff sessions there not because you believe as the a pointee, he serves at your pleasure. was it because you were hoping to guide the course of the investigation. in that question, mueller seems to look at.

was there nepharious intent or attempt to obstruct or was there a way to have a hand in your ultimate legal fate? >> the other disturbing element is that sessions asked a hill staffer to come up with dirt or derogatory information days before the president fired him. he went to one story a day that was damaging to comey. that's worse. >> we should point out that the justice department is denying that happened, but it's true. it's highly unusual. we knew they were trying to fire james comey. they brought him in and say i want to fire james comey. to take it to the next level and sending an aide to try to dig up dirt to plant in the media to generate negative stories about the fbi director is highly unusual. i never heard of that personally

and it shows a certain level of desperation on the part of the attorney general to please the president. at that time he was so unhappy with him recusing him and he was doing whatever he second please him. >> sessions deserves credit and the recent history during watergate when the attorney general was acting to reelection the president and he was responsible for the legal activity. if this was true, to be such a political which is what he would be. there have been other examples that was. it's a mixed picture. >> getting back to the president himself, we have to know a lot of details. >> for he said to don mcgann, there were press reports to find out what's going on with don

mcgann and jeff sessions to see if he was trying to recuse himself. i would rather he didn't. that's very different from a president of the united states saying that don mcgann and you tell him that i order him to stay on the investigation to protect me. that's a different story. >> it could be what is taking place. we would like to hear from don mcbegan to nag out. >> ultimately remember to jeff sessions's credit, he did recuse himself. he pressured him not to do so and he chose the more prudent course. >> it is a little bit of context covering the clinton white house. what a terrible tleap they had. rahm e manual and we used to ring them out on different issues. that's a different issue.

there are differences. >> a lot of us like to see that. would he be allowed to? >> it would and donald trump jr. had no bearing on these things, but the privilege belongs to the president of the united states. the president would have to assert that privilege and tell him whether or not he could speak. it's not on behalf of john mccain alone that i will give you a heads up. that's what jeff sessions did in many of the hearings and he said there might be executive privilege and we want our advisers to be able to have the open doors of communication and not feel like it's held to public scrutiny. so far the president hasn't been able to exercise it. >> they have not. we don't know if that's going to change. so far it happens. >> the top democrat on the house

judiciary issued a statement and ended the statement with these words. we need to learn what role they played in any effort by the department of justice to solicit the staffers that would discredit comey. i expect that mr. mcbegan will volunteer his testimony before he is compelled to provide it. >> i'm not surprised. >> everybody stand by. a lot more going on. an important note. pamela brown with a cnn special report. you won't want to miss it. the trump-russia investigation premiers at 10:00 p.m. eastern. good work. we will all be watching. now to the bombshell look, 100% questioned his fitness to be president. new accusations from the book

including steve bannon saying that ivanka trump is terrified that robert mueller's investigation is going into the family finances. stand by. we are getting new information.

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>> the white house dismissing it as a trashy tabloid fiction in an explosive new book portraying a white house in chaos. fire and fury are raising troubling questions about the president's competence including bombshell quotes from those around him in an nbc interview. the author was asked about the book's descriptions of the president's mental fitness. >> one of the more disturbing observations you make in the book is that the president's close advisers, people around him noticed him repeating stories, expression for expression for a short period of time. >> in a shortened period. they tracked this. it used to be people would point out in the beginning it was like every 25 or 30 minutes he would get the same three stories repeated. now it's the same three stories in every 10 minutes. >> and what's the suggestion

there? that goes beyond saying the president is not an intellectual. you said he was at mar a lago and didn't recognize lifelong friends. >> i will quote steve bannon. he's lost it. >> earlier today the president tweeted this about michael wolff, the author. i authorized zero access to the white house and they turned him down many times. the author of a phony book. ive never spoke it him. full of lies and misrepresentations and sources that don't exist. look at the guy's past and watch what happens to him and sloppy steve. that's the tweet from the president referencing that sloppy steve is a reference to steve bannon, the former white house strategist. back with us, what do you make of the claims in this book. we have a copy of the book about the president's mental health. >> it's really disturbing.

clearly he has spoken with him including bannon who believes the president is losing it. i'm in no position to judge that, but i spoke with someone who is a friend of the president who said to me look, this is not a matter of the president losing it. i think this is a question of the president's competency. that's also troubling and another issue raised in the book. sarah sanders was asked about the president's mental accuity. that's not a question the white house wants to get. even if you set it aside, the real question that can be talked about is this question of competency as president. the 54 straight of someone who is uninform and has a short attention span and often childish. those are issues that need to be

dealt with. >> all those things are troubling, but they are okay if you are surrounded by strong staff with various levels of experience and competence. whey think is more troubling like you. we are in no position to make the assessment that some people are. go by what the president says and how he behaves and what he tweets. he is obsessed. he is incredible thin-skinned. he doesn't tell the truth very often. things that are provable and he gave access and talked to him and he's so erratic. for a president of the united states to behave in all of those ways, it has to be worrisome. we are looking at political fights and what about a crisis that life and death where it's a

single decision. they can have such impact. that's what people should be concerned about. i'm concerned based on how he reacts to people. >> you were talking about the staff around him, etc. i remember back in the day when people were concerned about ronald reagan and they were proven to be true. >> at the end of the second term. >> at the end of the second term, but the staff was good and there was a sense that the president is having problems that the staff is so experienced and continues and can go on. i don't think that's the case. >> those were serious issues. >> act exactly. >> this is someone so willfully ignorant. he doesn't care. people say about michael wolf,

this is this, that, and the other. this is the swamp donald trump has been swimming in his entire adult life when he has been a big part of the tab light world. to be surprised that he would cooperate with people, i'm not surprised in the least. >> he's not going to get roy cohn. >> there is a lot more going on. i will speak live with a republican on the committee. we will talk about the revelations in the "new york times" and the obstruction of justice case that is ongoing. stand by and also breaking, the feds actively investigating the clinton foundation after donors had access to then secretary of state, hillary clinton.

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president trump. the director of the office of government ethics at the time left that office in july. this is what he said about don mcgann's actions when he appeared earlier. >> he can try to hide behind i was only following orders, but it's not going to work because as an attorney, the office of the president is his client and he is ultimately answerable toll american people. i don't have words i can use to describe how angry i am to learn this. >> joining us from salt lake city, utah. you heard what he had to say and he described him as a cancer. what do you think of this assessment. >> i don't know that i can spend

on it as directly as you may want me to. you have seen the history of reporting and anonymous sources and many times it has been wrong. we will wait and see, but i have to you putting that aside, i don't know why it would surprise people or be considered nepharious to not want him to recuse. i think he needs to be involved with this and be far more aggressive and he is not able to do that because he has taken himself out of this investigation. >> you know that in describing what happened leading up to his decision to go ahead recuse himself, he said he did have meetings that he didn't talk about during this process before the senate.

hold on one second and he said the ethics advisers over the department of justice all told him on this sensitive issue because you were involved and the best thing to do for the investigation is recuse him. >> yeah. i had that conversation with mr. sessions. when you hear he had meetings, a meeting is come into my office and let's spend a half hour together and take noeds. one of these was in passing at a hotel and he forgot about it and when you see his come in his confirmation hearings, it was clear he was answering the question as he understood it. he doesn't think that saying hello would qualify as a median. i am so disappointed he is

recused, i am convinced. >> it was his decision. >> i understand that. >> even though the president didn't want him to recuse himself and others didn't, but that was his decision. this explosive charge in this "new york times" report and i don't know if you want to respond to it. that sessions went to a congressional staffer seeking to get information that could discredit the former director, james comey. i wonder if you wanted to discuss it. >> once again, the department denies that. i had experience after experience after experience that i knew at the time were not true or we learned later were not true. justice is denying this. we will leave it at that. "new york times" is reporting this and other people are denying it. i don't know why i would comment

on a rumor like that. >> let's talk about two of your key republican colleagues in the house. they think that the attorney general should step down and said he lost control of the justice department. do you agree that jeff sessions needs to step down. >> this is hard for me because jeff sessions is one of the most honorable men in washington, d.c. and i mean that sincerely. we have been into very important concerns at the department of justice and the fbi. jeff sessions is not able to take the reigns and direct that investigation. for probably different reasons than they are, but i believe if we have been rapidly approaching, looking at the fbi, we need the director who can

take the reigns and be assertive. you can't do that when he is recused. it may be time for him to step aside. >> that's a significant statement coming from you from the house intelligence committee. let me get a final thought. on one of the avenues being explored by robert mueller, follow the money as they used to say. money laundering allegations. is that something your committee is looking at as well? >> well, you can't not look at these different elements. it's probably not our focus. let's review if we could for months and months, we heard collusion and the dossier and found out that hillary clinton used a foreign agent on russian sources and no one wanted to talk about the dossier any longer and now we are talking obstruction or maybe money laundering and the other elements. we ought to let it do what we

did with the previous parts of the investigation. let's see what the questions may inform us. i don't know, maybe there is some case you can make for obstruction, but we haven't seen evidence that would reach a legal threshold at this point. thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. >> i will get a different perspective about the president's fitness and the breaking news and the feds and investigating the clinton foundation. new information we are learning about that. plus just in, a special and rare interview sitting down with the secretary of state. rex tillerson will debut the first part of the interview coming up as well. your insurance company

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krclaims in a bombshell boo fire and fury inside the trump white house said 100% of the people around the president question his fitness for the job. listen to this. >> let's talk about the book itself. one of the overarching scenes is that according to your reporting, everyone around the

president, senior advisers, family members, every single one of them questions his intelligence and fitness for office. >> let me put a marker in the sand here. 100% of the people. >> jared kushner, ivanka trump question his fitness for office? >> certainly jared and i varcvan their current situation, a keep legal quagmyre are putting everything on the president. not us. him. >> let's discuss with democratic senator. thanks for joining us. you're welcome. >> do you share that same concern about the president's mental fitness. are the concerns fair? >> my feeling is that the title of the book is fire and fury. that relates to his threat to the north koreans that he is going to have a fire and fury

descend upon the entire country of north korea which is nuclear war. and his own advisers talk about a preemptive. we would begin the nuclear war. from my perspective, that is a crazy policy to have. any thinking that reflects that kind of an attitude and ignores the need to cutoff what we are not doing yet, that's a crazy policy. we are not using diplomacy and we are talking about nuclear buttons being bigger than that which the north koreans have. not only in that region, but the united states to be concerned. >> what was the reaction when you saw them with the north korean leader and he the

president had a bigger nuclear power button at his desk. what did you make of that? >> well, it was just four days after he tweeted out that he now realizes and this is just last thursday that, he, president trump had been soft on the chinese. soft on their ability to gain access to loyalty. soft on a really stronger diplomatic perspective. instead, within four or five days, he is talking about a bigger nuclear button while not having a bigger nuclear button and by having a big wrench that we should be insisting on being used and it cuts off going into north korea. the president still hasn't taken the tough position which he needs which will lead towards

the completion of the north korean icbm and miniaturized hydrogen bomb program and ultimately a real confrontation that could be military without having exhausted this oil option that sit there is unused by the president. >> let's get to the latest developments. pretty explosive developments in the russia investigation. president trump urged, we are now told, his top white house lawyer and the white house counsel to stop the attorney general, jeff sessions, from recusing himself from the russia investigation. from your perspective, senator, is that obstruction of justice? >> i think it's a clear indication of obstruction of justice. it's a clear indication or attempt to shut down the investigation of the alleged collusion between the russian government and the trump

campaign. and donald was asked to play the role and this joe mccarthy who used his governmental power in an abusive way and it's pretty clear that gann should no longer have a position and he was not rep tenting the constitution and was representing donald trump as a private attorney and that is inappropriate. >> do you want him to testify before congress? >> he has to testify before congress and tell the american people what the president said to him. why the president wanted him to ensure that jeff sessions stayed on the job and not with standing sessions's role as a high

ranking official and someone who was talking to high ranking officials during the campaign and during the transition. it's imperative for us to understand this. it's one more piece of critical information that points towards this relationship between the russian government and the trump campaign. >> amidst all of this, we are now getting word, senator that federal credits including at the justice department and the fbi they are investigating claims of corruption tied to the clinton foundation, that's the charity that bill and hillary clinton have. the reports have been emerging now and this is a serious development potentially a criminal investigation under way. what's your reaction? >> i don't know the details of that, but i do know that it will be used by the trump

administration just as another red herring to avoid the american public focus on the much more important investigation, which is what robert mueller is doing in getting to the bottom of the attempted russian compromise of the presidential election of 2016. that is the big investigation going on. i don't know the details of this investigation that you just referred to. if there is evidence, it should be pursued. but it will be a footnote in history compared to the mueller investigation. if it continues on as it has, what donald mcgann was trying to do, we are heading towards a historical explosive moment in american politics late or this year. >> the allegation is that when hillary clinton was secretary of

state, contributions were given in exchange for promises and policy decisions by the secretary of state. that's a serious charge. we don't know how serious the investigation is, but we do know that it is under way right now and has been for the past few months. >> and i have not seen any evidence to conclude that those allegations are accurate. it should be pursued, but we are here again on the mueller investigation or what donald mcgann was doing. or jeff sessions. this thing continues to grow as something that gets to be more than just circumstantial evidence and gets right to the core question of whether or not donald trump and firing jim comey and using donald mcgann was trying to shut down the russia investigation. >> senator marky, thanks for joining us. >> thank you all.

>> the secretary of state rex tillerson giving a rare interview talking about the president's mental fitness and nuclear taunts against north korea and we just sat down. we are about to release some of that interview.

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. >> just in, a very rare interview with the secretary of state rex tillerson on

everything from the president's mental fitness to his own future. the nuclear tensions with north korea. here's the first part of his interview. >> it was big news about the north and south arranging talks for next week. north korea coming to the table. is that an opening maybe for talks with the u.s.? >> i think it's too early to tell. we need to wait and see what the out come of the talks are. the president had a good call yesterday morning and their intent is to talk about the intent. and the participation in the olympics. >> it could be a positive sign. >> we will see. some are speculating that this might be the first effort of the

channel, but as you know, we had channels with north korea and they know how to reach us if and when they are ready to engage as well. we'll see. >> if you can explain about the u.s. policy on north korea. do they have to give up before committing to talks. >> the policy is complete verifiable agreeable news. that is a policy that is commonly held by everyone in the region as well. the chinese have that stated policy and russia has that policy. recently all of the countries in the area. clearly that's going to take

time. that is yet to be determined, but we clearly need a signal from north korea that these talks must lead to that conclusion. the path wail is the nature of the negotiation. that objective never changed. >> it's unrealistic to sit down and say we are ready to do it. it sounds like they have to show some willingness, but then the mechanics of that -- >> we have to have a shared view that that is the reason to talk. it is through those talks that they can chart the way for themselves for a more secure future and more prosperous future for the people as well. there will be positive outcomes for the security for the region. that's the nature of the negotiations. >> do you think a lot has been

made about the president's tweets? now north korea is talking to south korea. >> i think rhetoric that north korea understands is while it is our objective, the pet haresides been very clear they are backed by strong military options if necessary. that's not the first choice. the president has been clear that's not his first choice, but it is important that north koreans as well as other players understand how high the stakes are in an effort to diplomatic efforts are supported. those that have been supported very well in the international community. the security counsel resolutions called sanctions and the participation and imposing june lateral actions on their own, both economic and diplomatic.

i think the recognition the president has demonstrated to the world how high the stakes are. that's why we must achieve a diplomatic out come. the north koreans have to understand the penalties to them will continue and we will only throw more severe in terms of sanctions and other actions until they do get on the pathway to cop, bad cop, if you will. hold out the pros spebts of talks, but if talks don't work, military action, that might be the formula that you and the president will continue. >> i'm going to let tu characterize it that way. i'm not going to necessarily show all of our cards. >> lisa is with us right now. certainly sounds a lot more moderate and more diplomatic than others in the administration, nikki haley for example, u.s. ambassador to the u.n. and president tweeted waste of time all this diplomacy.

>> when the north and south agreed to have talks and the north said i wanted to open up this channel with south korea, nikki haley was like, you know, we don't care, we are not taking it that seriously. we don't want a picture. but i think if you would talk to secretary tillerson privately, he doesn't want to have rose colored glasses but does think that this is showing some kind of willingness to at least talk to north korea. and maybe that's something he can build on. and also the president and nikki haley are going out and saying they have to denuclearize first. he's saying, listen, that's the goal. we are not going to have talks with them if they are not willing to give up their program, but that will take time. we need a sign they are willing to go there and that's the goals of these talks. so i think there is a little bit more of a new anced view with secretary tillerson that they are going to have to show some womeningness, but it's unrealistic they'll have to give everybody up before talks can start.

>> he's top diplomate in the administration. >> that's right. >> stand by part 2 of this interview coming up. i know you had the chance to ask secretary of state about the president's mental state and all of that, that's next. you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet.

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we had a very successful, in my view, view of 2017 pif ovoti

our policies and helping our partners understand those policies. i think we'll have a very productive 2018. again, the state department gets stronger every day, understanding what we are trying to do, and i look forward to having a very, very successful 2018. >> for the whole year? >> i intend to be here for the whole year. >> has the president given you indication you won't be around? >> none. >> none whatsoever. >> none whatsoever. >> the rare interview secretary of state rex tillerson speaking with our own elise laugh et insisting he will be on the job for all of this year. the secretary also speaking about his relationship with president trump, including his take on the president's mental state. watch. >> i'm sure you've heard about this new book out there about the white house, talk of the town. it describes, you know, a president whose foreign policy

is uninformed, that he's not engaged, that he's not interested, that he gets up and leaves meetings with world leaders because he's bored. you are at the white house several times a week. is that your experience? >> i think among all the cabinet sents i probably have spent more time with the president than perhaps secretary of defense mattis who spends a lot of time with him as well. i've never seen the president leave a meeting with a foreign leader. he is very engaged in these meetings. and in our policy deliberations, and the meetings of the national security council with him, as i said, a big challenge was p pivoting policies in a different direction than they were placed when the president took office, from north korea, to afghanistan, south asia, to the defeat isis campaign, the president priority tooized the threats early on and that's the sequence we have addressed those.

all these dleliberations, these are not easy decisions for a president to make, he has been very deliberative, listens to the argues, he pushes back, as he should, and in the end makes the decision. i'll tell you on all the major policy areas, the president has made right decision on everyone of those. how we got there involves a lot debate and it should involve an lot of debate. it's a very healthy exchange with the president, and one which i think is important that we continue to have. >> everybody in this book questions his mental fitness. have you ever questioned his mental fitness? and describe your relationship with him. because through his tweets and stuff it's not a very good relationship. >> i've never questioned his mental fitness. i have no reason to question his mental fitness. my relationship with him, and it is a developing one, and i remind people, and i think it's well-known, thatten he and i did

not know one another before he asked me to serve as secretary of state. so we don't have a lot of history in the past, so part of this is us coming to learn and understand one another. >> also two different kinds of people. >> well, we have different management styles. how i make decisions, how i process information, i have to learn how. he takes information in, processes it, and makes decisions. that's my responsibility. i'm here to serve his presidency. so i've had to spend a lot of time understanding how to best communicate with him so i can serve his needs with information. i do think one f my roles is to always give him all side of the issues, even when i know it's the side that he really wants to consider, i think it's part of making good decisions is i know he at least has had visibility to all aspects of the decision he's about to make. and that's my role of secretary of state is to provide him the whole 360 visibility of what decisions mean for foreign

affairs, partners and with adversaries. and i think what comes out sometimes they think it's conflict but it's a normal pros is he having the president look at all sides saying i don't like that that's healthy. that's good. people should feel good about the way decisions are made because it's not one of giving in to what you think the president wants, helping him see the full array of all of the options and what the implications of those r then he decides, he's the commander in chief, he's the president, he decides, then we'll implement against his decisions. >> reflecting back, what have you learned about yourself pan what might you do differently next year? >> you never stop growing as an individual. so in terms of what i would do different, i'm going to build on my ability to communicate with the president better. my ability to communicate with others better. and as i said, itsds something i had to learn what is effective