case, as is senator cruz. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. good morning. >> thanks to our international viewers for joining us this morning. for you cnn "newsroom" is next. for u.s. viewers, "new day" continues right now. let's get after it. >> when they have no collusion, it seems unlikely you would even of have an interview. >> if the special counsel wants to interview him, they would be able to. >> he's asking the party to give him political cover for this investigation. >> bipartisan uproar after florida gets the sole exemption from expanded offshore drilling. >> would this be okay? >> if this is not a sign of politics as usual, i don't know what is. >> republicans have to be careful. they can't afford someone like joe arpaio. >> controversial sheriff making waves in the arizona senate race. >> you believe that president obama's birth certificate is a phony? >> no doubt about it. >> this is "new day" with chris

cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning. welcome to your "new day". president trump will not commit now to being interviewed by special counsel bob mueller in the russia investigation. this is a change from his public commitment last year that he would 100%, as he said, be willing to talk to mueller's team under oath about why he fired james comey. why the change? we know the president is consistent on one thing. he insists there is no collusion between his campaign and russia, even though no one has concluded that. >> meanwhile, 14 months after the election, president trump is tweeting this morning about hillary clinton. after bringing up her name three times yesterday at his white house press conference. but one of the president's top aides insists nobody at the white house ever talks about clinton. so what's going on inside there? we have it all covered for you. joe johns is live at the white house. what's the latest, joe? >> reporter: good morning, alis alisyn. the president is clearly

frustrated, suggesting a sitdown interview with special counsel in the russia investigation is  an open on question, also repeating his mantra that there was no collusion, raising the question of why he wouldn't want to sit down and clear the air if there's nothing there. president trump refusing to commit to a possible interview with special counsel robert mueller. >> we'll see what happens. i mean, certainly i'll see what happens. but when they have no collusion and nobody has found any collusion at any level, it seems unlikely that you'd even have an interview. >> reporter: his remarks markedly different than this response last june after firing fbi director james comey. >> would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version? >> 100%. >> reporter: the president, again, calling the russia investigation a democrat hoax and repeating this familiar defense eight times. >> there has been no collusion. >> there's no collusion. >> i can only say this, there was absolutely no collusion.

>> reporter: mueller and congressional investigators have not reached any conclusions in their russia probes, but mueller has obtained guilty pleas from two former trump campaign advisers for lying to the fbi. and two others have been indicted. earlier in the day, president trump encouraging the gop to take control of the investigation. despite the fact that republicans already are in control of all three congressional probes and the justice department. >> i don't intend to have a discussion with the president on that point. and i hope he doesn't call me and tell me the same thing that you said he said. >> reporter: it comes after the president criticized senator dianne feinstein, calling her sneaky for releasing the transcript of the judiciary committee's interview with the head of fusion gps, the firm behind the now infamous russian dossier, without telling her republican counterparts. >> he tends to call people names very quickly, so i'm not alone. the one regret i have is i should have spoken with senator

grassley before. >> reporter: president trump responding to meeting media coverage by vowing to make it easier for people to sue news organizations. >> we are going to take a strong look at our country's libel laws. our current libel laws are a sham and a disgrace. >> reporter: the president also insisting there will be no deal on the d.r.e.a.m.ers without a wall, after sending mixed messages the day before. >> it's got to include the wall. we need the wall for security. we need the wall for safety. we need the wall for stopping the drugs from pouring in. >> reporter: the president is up and tweeting this morning. he has a lot of questions inspired by something he saw on his favorite network, touching on the dossier and his favorite target hillary clinton. here's the tweet. disproven and paid for by democrats dossier used to spy on trump campaign. did fbi use intel tool to influence the election?

did dems or clinton also pay russians? where are hidden and smashed dnc servers? where are crooked hillary e-mails? what a mess. thursday morning at the white house. back to you, chris and alisyn. >> joe, thank you very much. good thing nobody talks about hillary clinton at the white house. let's bring in cnn analyst gregory and real clear politics's a.b. stoddard. i was joking with kellyanne, is nobody the president's new code name. if nobody talks about hillary clinton, that must be his code name because he talks about her all the time. and he just proved it this morning. but the larger point he's making is that this investigation needs to be about her. what is the strategy? how is it being received by those around her? >> well, it's two-fold. one, politicians, like a foil, donald trump is not the first to spend his time how obama should have cleaned up the mess before he arrived.

and hillary clinton is crooked and on and on. it serves to discredit the fbi and the department of justice so anything they will be finding on russian meddling, conclusion, or financial crimes is something he can criticize later because they failed, in his view, to properly investigate hillary clinton and her server and on and on. it is always about hillary clinton. this is part of a larger campaign to discredit bob mueller and the department of justice and the fbi. >> so, david, as you know, the president now will not commit to sitting down with bob mueller. he is quite fixated on collusion. he said there is no collusion. it sounds like, what we know of bob mueller's investigation, has moved o. bob mueller moved on from collusion. we don't know what he will have concluded on that. but in terms of the built pleas and in terms of the dilates,

it's about things like lying to the fbi, phenomenal crimes. there has been talk about whether there's a case for obstruction of justice. so the president is distracting about collusion? is that why he is talking building? >> we have following the contrails of the investigation to define what he has. we have no way of knowing that. he is looking at whether there is evidence of illegal collusion between trump campaign and the russians, obstruction of justice, financial relationships between donald trump or others in the campaign and russia. so there is a lot of things he's looking at. we don't know what the end point of that is. the president pronounces thrg no collusion is his position. we have no way of knowing any of that. there is no evidence to date that would suggest he was involved in anything like that that led to the interference in the campaign. but on this broader hillary

clinton point, i think it is is worth really underlining how disturbing this is. this is not donald trump the citizen fighting a tabloid newspaper war with lies and innuendo and deflection. this is the president of the united states who is actually encouraging his political rival to be investigated using the machinery of the united states government. that shows a real authoritarian mind-set. and i think there is no other way to describe it. because there is nothing to back up what he is saying. and the fact that he is still obsessed with hillary clinton and the results of the election about his legitimacy is the easy line of criticism. >> right. and he has every right to his opinion. and he has every right to question it. he has authority over investigations in this country. but the truth, he's not entitled to redefine. he gets his own opinion, not his

own facts. punt his most recent tweet. disproven and paid for by democrats dossier. certain parts have been verified. the paid for by democrats. yes, in large part but not only. it started off as a republican exercise. did the fbi use the intel tool to influence election? there is no suggestion of that. there is this narrative, a.b., that all they have at the fbi is this dossier. everyone we've asked says that's not true. they had their own sourcing, second is ear, tertiary. it is not true. then he asked the big questions. downtown dems or clinton also pay the russians? that's why the treupanscript th was just released is so important from gps. he knocks it down and they come back with nothing. he never worked with russians, never paid from russians, he

didn't know about them paying christopher steele, knows nothing about the fbi paying christopher steele, christopher ever paying sources. if he did, he didn't ask for invoicing even though he was getting paid by fusion. where is the truth? >> he asks questions about things that don't exist. he will make statements using facts that don't exist. this is not something that is brand-new here. the dossier is this canar. a lot of people are trying to use it. as you said, bob mueller is going to make a conclusion and criminal investigation based on corroborated facts. there will be no funny dossier, uncorroborated facts. it's not something that is going to be the basis for anything in the end that really matters.

and i don't know, you know, whether he's going to come up with anything impeachable or indictable. he is certainly not going to use the flimsy parts of the on dossier. there are certainly corroborated parts that were well sourced independently. so it's just something, again, they are using as a distraction to constantly trying to divert attention. i might add to what david said about collusion. if you actually laundered russian oligarchs money connected to putin's government many years ago you are compromised by the government and therefore an unwitting colluder. there is a direct connection between financial crimes and collusion. by saying there is no collusion, there is no way he sat down with putin in a room together on a conference call to actually take down hillary clinton. you are still unwilling colluder, if you respond to the

meeting or e-mail and lie about both. >> the dossier, which is where the president and his supporters i think are angry and at least have a good question to ask. what we're told on this is that they are getting this information on the dossier and it's disturbing. they feel like they have to drop a dime to the fbi because you can have a candidate who is being blackmailed. that very well may be the case. there was a lot of information during the campaign to find information about trump. he did business in russia. there has to be something that's corrupt there. you get the fbi going on there and that leaks, it becomes a big story and a political cudgel. it is something i would scrutinize. >> absolutely. >> stheurp lowe just don't know.

>> i'm just saying. here's what we do know. they had nine hours trying to prove what david is spaerting right n asserting right now. they went after glenn simpson that this was something more than just conscience and nothing came in. >> kellyanne conway is watching. she is wanting to clarify what she said to you on cuomo prime. we will play what she said last night and then we will were listen to what she is telling us this morning. >> we beat her fairly and squarely in this country through this democratic elected process. so many people still can't get over the election. >> says my friend who can't keep hillary clinton's name out of his mou her mouth stpwhru can. >> i'll never talk about it again. but you can't mentioned the 2016 election. >> i never mentioned it once.

you guys are frozen in that moment. that's why you bring up hillary clinton. >> that's not true. we don't care about her. nobody here talks about her. >> well, she has a clarification. >> okay. so she said nobody here, meaning in the white house, talks about her. so she says so fun to see the predictable heads exploding, but i should have finished that sentence. i don't have a question. i'm just mentioning that. i mean, look, a.b., they do talk about hillary clinton all the time. i've challenged kellyanne in the past to have an interview where she doesn't bring it up, and it was impossible, actually. so whatever. they are fixated on it. guess what, now the fbi and congress also seems to be going along with doing more investigating into things that we had thought were settled. >> right.

which is so interesting. because the interview that the president gave, then president-elect a few days after november 8th with "60 minutes" with leslie stahl. he said they're very good people. i don't want to hurt them. they're very good people. and now there is this focus, not only president trump asking the justice department to reinvestigate her, but members of congress talking about her as well. it's a way to go after the integrity of the department of justice and the fbi so that when and if a conclusion is maids that is damaging to the president or his family, they can say that that -- it can be trusted because they failed in their investigation of hillary clinton. >> i think it's worth just noting there are two aspects of the trump presidency so far. this first one gets so much more

attention because it tends to suck the oxygen out of the room. it is his obsessiveness, how emotionally he responds, how thin skinned he is on all matters of his legitimacy, whether he is getting good reviews in the media. it is a fixation. and alongside that you have serious work being done in the white house and on the international stage. it is just the former is really overshadowing the latter. >> there is a dovetailing here. that's kellyanne's argument. she said you don't talk about any of the good stuff, only the bad stuff. you get distracted from the stories. we have a big opioid problem and he's getting after it. that's g. but he said my wall will be a big piece of this. he distracts from his own progress. david, a.b., appreciate it very much. this all matters. it's not tedious. you have to stay on something when the truth is abused.

if not, you end up with situations like this. what is a wall? we're actually asking that right now. we don't know. one thing is promised to the base. now we're told the president may have a new definition of the wall. but maybe he doesn't we're told as well. one of the earliest trump supporters joining us. maybe he has an answer. next. i tried hard to quit smoking. but when we brought our daughter home, that was it. now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how.

there has been no collusion. >> no collusion. >> they all say there is no collusion, and there is no collusion. >>ic say this, there was absolutely no collusion. >> there is no collusion. >> when nobody has found any collusion. >> eight times president trump said it has been determined or that there is no collusion in answer to a reporter's question obviously. the president now says, though, it is unlikely he will be interview by special counsel investigators after saying last year he would be 100% willing to talk with bob mueller under oath about why he fired jim comey.

joining us now is republican congressman chris collins. i haven't seen you since the "new day". happy new year to you. >> happy new year to you. i hear you're burning the candle at both ends. >> i am. let me ask you a simple question first. do you believe the president should sit down with bob mueller if asked to? >> i think that is truly a decision the president needs to take under advisement from attorneys. i'm not going to weigh in. i'll repeat what donald trump has been saying. there has been no collusion. to sit down with the mueller team, that is a decision for the president to sit down with attorneys. >> the first one is if you believe that there is nothing, why wouldn't you sit down with bob mueller? >> well, again, that's a decision for the attorneys.

but, you know, there's a reason we hire lawyers to know the ins and outs of things. >> he said he was 100% on it. what changed? >> well, no. i can tell you for myself who has been through more than one lawsuit, you do listen to your attorneys. they're the professionals. >> they don't keep you from doing something. let's look at it on the second level. he says there's no collusion. you, the president, you have every right to say that. that's your opinion. he also says it's been determined there has been no collusion. that is not true, congressman. >> well, there's no indication certainly that's come out that would suggest otherwise. >> we haven't heard anything yet. mueller has done nothing other than some indication of indictments and deals that may be going on, but he has not issued any kind of determination to make that statement true. the fact that he hasn't said

there is collusion doesn't mean there is no collusion. do you understand why it is troubling for the president to say that? >> i also know, having been through this myself, when you know you have done nothing wrong and people are alleging you have, you're going to sit there all day long and say there's nothing there. that's what the president is saying. and i don't blame him in the least. >> he says more than that. no one is saying, chris collins, did you x. president trump, you did x. and that's the end of it. remember the president saying none of my people ever did anything. there's nothing. they're not going to find anything. now we know that couldn't be less true. we have never seen more contacts that need to be explained than we have seen with this administration. so what does this mean about the credibility of the president on this issue? >> we need to expedite and get the mueller investigation done.

i believe it is winding down. >> why does expedition matter? why? ever hear that expression justice delayed is justice denied. sure. so you want to see things happen. but why rush it along? >> oh, we need to be done with this so the country can move on. look at the stock market, record highs every day. you look at employment and the raises people are getting. look at where we stand in this country. yet we have this cloud that keeps hanging over us instead of celebrating and moving forward like, you know -- >> did russia interfere in the election, in your opinion? >> excuse me? >> did russia interfere in the election? >> i believe they attempted to. >> do you believe they hacked the e-mails and they were behind those activities. >> yeah, i do on. >> do you believe we know how they did it and how to stop it next time? >> i believe we have a good idea how they did it, and hopefully we could. let's face facts.

in cyber warfare, the tools are changing every single day. >> right. >> you have to make changes to keep up with them. we see that north korea. we see it with china. we see it with iran. >> right. >> we certainly have seen it with russia. that's an ongoing battle. >> but we have never seen anything like this, by all indications. do we think we know who helped them and if so how. we don't know yet. why fore stall those efforts. don't we need to know to protect ourselves for next time? >> i'm confident that the appropriate agencies are looking into this every single day. they're not going to expose what they know. but, again, it's not just russia. it is north korea, iran and other bad actors that are trying to, whether they're getting into our power grid, whether they're trying to get into our banking, whether they're trying to blackmail law firms. >> understood. >> by accessing their data and their files, this is a way of life i'm afraid for the rest of

the time. >> all the more reason that we've doubled those efforts. let me ask you something. if you want to wind up what's going on with mueller so you don't distract in the other areas of import, how can you support the fbi efforts to look into hillary clinton and all of these old questions? if that isn't a distraction, what is? >> i do think hillary was given a free pass on a lot of things. and this is just an indication that what is goose is good for the gander. as we have uncovered more and more indications of wrongdoing by the clinton campaign and those associated with her, they were just brushed right under the rug. you have a little of that going on. i'll fully admit that. this is -- >> a little bit of politics going on? >> yeah, of course there is. >> that's a problem. >> all the good things we have done are being totally ignored

in the country and -- so of course there's politics here. >> look, let's not forget the source. the news cycle starts at the top. if the president didn't take on the photos that he takes on, didn't make the misstatements he makes, didn't obsess on what he obsesses on, maybe he could trumpet the things you want him to. isn't that part of the analysis? >> the fact is, chris, there's never been a case where nine seconds after hillary conceded november 9th that the delegitimizing of president trump's election began. it stayed over. it's been a year now in ernest. >> help me understand. i don't get it. how is wanting to know how russia interfered and who might have helped them, including people involved in the trump campaign, how is that null feig his win? >> oh, it's that, but it's everything else. the people in congress, every week saying they want to impeach the president. they want to invoke the 25th

amendment. >> right. and that's overreaching by the left. shame on them. we he say it on the show every time. let me ask you one more question. the wall. do you know what it is? >> well, i know what border security is. i know it's something we haven't had for the last 10 years. we need this -- >> but what is this, chris? that's what i'm asking specifically. the president said it was a big cement wall, 30 feet high, the whole bothered. now i'm hearing he thinks it is something else which is akin to what everybody else said it should be, different things in different contexts to suit different needs. what is it? >> i believe it's the latter. i was one that said that probably a year ago. it will be a wall. it may be a fence. it's going to be different things for different contours. we have a lot of on water at the border. so the main thing here, to use the term border security, so we don't have the drugs pouring across, illegal immigrants comings across. >> the efficacy of the barrier

is one discussion. but the president keep saying wall. is that a metaphor, we should use that word to mean what you're saying, a more complex understanding of the realities on the border and what will surround it? >> i believe that is the case. >> so wall is metaphor. i'm just trying to get it straight, chris. that is one of the things that's holding up the process on daca. i'm trying to nail that down. i appreciate that help. you're always welcome on the show. happy new year to you. >> yeah. you too. a programming note, cuomo primetime. we will talk with senator bernie sanders. why? what are the democrats doing to make this deal happen. if they care about the d.r.e.a.m.ers, if they care about the lives, are they ready to compromise? tonight, 9:00 p.m. eastern. okay. florida is now exempted from the trump administration's new offshore drilling plan. why do they get special treatment? north carolina's governor makes his case next. serve a community. i just don't want to let these people down. excedrin migraine.

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governors from both parties are calling out the trump administration for its decision to exempt florida and only florida from expanded offshore

oil and gas drilling. interior secretary zinke said florida is unique because its coasts are heavily reliant on tourism. what about the rest of america's coastline. democrat democratic roy cooper wants his state exempted too. good morning, governor. >> good morning, alisyn. >> why does florida get special treatment? >> well, it's interesting that six months ago i said that we don't want offshore drilling off the north carolina coast because of coastal tourism and the economy. over 30 north carolina cities and towns passed resolutions saying they didn't want offshore drilling because of coastal tourism and their economy. and now the secretary of the interior has said that florida is not going to have offshore drilling because of coastal tourism and the economy. we can speculate all we want as to the reason why florida was

exempted. >> what do you think? >> what they said is critically important because you've got a lot of states across this country, including north carolina that rely on it. we have a $3 billion coastal tourism economy. we have 22 barrier islands. we have 300 miles of coastline. >> you have cape hatteras. >> same treatment for north carolina. >> here's the map. until this week when florida was exempted. so this is the map that shows the coast. and you can imagine that call of these states have some -- could have some objection one way or the other. in fact, there's a whole bunch of republican governors from new hampshire, south carolina, new jersey asking for this. you are asking for a meeting with interior secretary ryan zinke. has he agreed? >> not yet. as soon as i heard about the florida decision, i asked for a meeting, or at least a telephone call, with secretary zinke.

i've talked with him about other issues before. and i had read his statement regarding florida. they announced this plan that they are going to start offshore drilling off the united states coast. and then just a few days later, without public comment, without any regulatory or scientific investigation, they exempt florida because of coastal tourism and the economy and they want to listen to local voices? here's north carolina. we're raising our hand. this is critical for us. our state juts out into the atlantic ocean. there is no 100% safe method to do that. when you look at the deregulatory emphasis of this administration, boy, i don't trust them to put the safeguards in place that offshore drilling would need. the bp disaster in the gulf coast cost $60 billion. now, that's over twice north

carolina's annual state budget. >> yeah. >> this is an economic issue. i'm strong to say i went to the coast as a child. north carolina born and bred. but this is ridiculous to comment and say we're going to start drilling off the coast and picking off a state like florida. we want to go next. north carolina is standing in line. i look forward to my meeting. >> i hear you. so do you think governor scott of florida is republican. you're a democrat. do you think that secretary zinke will be as receptive to your complaints as he was to rick scott's? >> i certainly hope so. the issues are the same. coastal tourism. we are reliant on coastal tourism in our economy. if you don't, they will see action from the state of north carolina. we are already mulling legal

options here. >> what are those? >> well, we'll have to see what they are. we have to look at what is happening and the disregard for the regulatory process and exempting florida and what they said about it. clearly they said this is an economic issue. they announced offshore drilling because of economic issues. when you look at the fact that we are becoming more and more reliant on renewable energy, north carolina is number two in solar in the country. there is an abundance of national gas. we don't need offshore drilling and we don't need the risks that go along with it. >> yeah. >> and you're seeing a great frustration from republican in coastal states. you have heard from congress. our commercial fishing industry in north carolina brings in hundreds of millions of dollars. >> and i bet they're worried. governor, i want to ask you

while we have you about something going on with your state and that is the question of jerry mandering. this is the map as it stands of the congressional districts in your state in north carolina. you can see, look, what the federal judge panel decided is that this is unconstitutional the way it was drawn because it is so heavily favors republicans. you see a sea of red there. i mean, how on earth did you win as a democrat if you believe this map? >> i was elected by all the people of north carolina to be governor. but that's a good point. in fact, north carolina is a truly purple state. we're 50/50. why do we have a super majority in our state legislature and 10 members who are republican and 3 democratic? it's because of technologically

diabolical redistricting that this legislature has put into place. they have already had state legislated districts struck down. they have had congressional districts struck down on race. the federal court said it discriminated against african-americans with surgical precision. so when they get caught doing that, then they augment their extreme jerry man tkering by party. now they have made it super republican. and there's evidence in the public one of the leaders in the state legislature, one of the republican leaders when asked how in a 50/50 state is can you have 10 republican congressman and three democratic and he said we couldn't figure out a way to make it 11. that shows you right there what we're talking about. >> that is telling. >> and the court has called him on it.

we need the united states supreme court to come in and confirm that. we don't need politicians picking their constituents. that's what we need to fix here. >> understood. governor roy cooper, thank you very much for giving us the status report on your state. great to have you. >> thanks, alisyn. >> chris. >> are you paying attention to what's happening out west? they are having deadly and devastating mudslides. southern california is just up to its eyeballs in trouble. the incredible lengths people are going to save lives next.

you may live in the east but you have to care about what's happening in the west. the death toll in the southern california mudslides is 17. they are scouring thick mud. they say this is the hardest kind of rescuing to do. the debris, the mud, the weight, lack of oxygen. but they are making rescues. you're looking at a 14-year-old girl. they heard her scream. they dug through wreckage for six hours to find her.

paul has more on the harrowing rescues. >> reporter: the wall of mud came in the middle of the night. >> just obliterated this little neighborhood. turned houses into matchsticks. blew them off the foundations. >> reporter: survivors became heroes. >> we heard a little baby. we got down and found a little baby. we got it out, got the mud out of its mouth. i'm hoping it's okay. they took it right to the hospital. a baby four feet down in nowhere, under the mud, in the rocks. who knows what else is out there. >> reporter: there were many more in need out there, like this family surrounded by floodwater. the youngest survivor, a newborn baby. all five in the family rescued. others still searching for their

loved ones. >> we just go down the creek and see what we can find. >> reporter: this man's mother was swept away while clinging to the back door of her home. >> she was in the voluntary evacuation. >> reporter: what made this mudslide so horrendous, the steepest of the terrain. look up there. the thomas fire burns above montecito. it goes from 3,000 feet to sea level in just several miles. the water came off the ashy hillsides and just poured right through here. it had a high velocity, as they call it. and you can look right over here and you will see where the waters just a mile from the ocean took a house right off its foundation. other houses swallowed by mud or destroyed by fire. highway 101, the main freeway connecting los angeles and san francisco, in a moment was turned into a river of mud and boulders. in all, hundreds of homes destroyed or damaged in a natural disaster covering 19,000

acres. many families grieve while others simply host their loved ones will find their way home. >> you've got to be scared. i've been in different situations and that's the scariest. it comes in with the speed of water but has the mass of earth. it smothers. when the water leaves, when the fire leaves, you now have this new layer of completely smothering, destructive, deadly mud. it is really scary. they are overwhelmed. >> i can't believe this video captures people being pulled out from that mud that seems like lava. >> can they get everywhere. no, you can't travel in that stuff. it is is the worst of the worst. >> we have to move on to cnn "money" now. protecting the d.r.e.a.m.ers. christine romans has more. >> hi, alisyn and chris.

leaders of 100 companies want a permanent fist for daca. google, amazon, coke, ibm, microsoft, facebook. they said they will lose valuable talent. they don't want to disrupt their workforce. it could cost to the tune of $215 billion in growth. experts say it is needed to implement a new program for these folks. this is pressure from companies worth billions of dollars. they employ hundreds of thousands of people. it has been increasingly vocal about social issues, speaking out in favor of gay marriage, immigration. guys, microsoft promised to pay the legal fees of any employee facing deportation in this daca crisis. chris? >> all right. christine, appreciate it. thanks for keeping us up to speed. former sheriff john arpaio jumping into the arizona senate

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but they might not be enough to protect my heart. adding bayer aspirin can further reduce the risk of another heart attack. because my second chance matters. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. joe arpaio making waves one day after revealing that he still believes president obama's birth certificate is fake. >> i started this because of a fake document, a government document. i didn't care where the president came from. i didn't care at all. and we have the evidence. nobody will talk about it. >> you believe that president obama's birth certificate is a phony? >> no doubt about it. >> all right, let's bring in one of joe arpaio's challengers,

kelli ward. are you surprised that joe arpaio is still talking about barack obama's birth certificate? >> it is a controversy that doesn't need to be discussed. i'm not going to go down a rabbit hole with you but -- >> but do you believe that barack obama's birth certificate is real? >> i believe that barack obama was born here, that he was our legitimate president, but i also think he -- and i know he legitimately ran the failed obamacare health care policy down our throats and now republicans have to fix it. >> okay. so one more thing on joe arpaio because he's such a colorful character and has been around for so long, even in the national dialogue, what do you think his chances are of winning? >> i say welcome to the fray, joe. there's plenty of room in this race for joe arpaio. the polling, recent polling shows that 60% of the arizona electorate wants a conservative. there's a ceiling for other less

conservative candidates and it's around the same as it was for jeff flake. so joe arpaio stands a chance. he's a patriot. he's been a leader on fighting illegal immigration here in our state. we are a border state. for me, i've been focusing on other issues. i've been focusing on immigration of course and building a wall, fixing the tax code, repealing obamacare, building our economy so that american citizens have more money in their pockets. those are the things that america cares about. those are the things i'm focusing on. >> and i do want to get to your agenda but when you say that joe arpaio has been a leader on immigration, he's been convicted of racially profiling latinos. how is that being a lead are on immigration? >> he has fought for the rule of law here in arizona. >> and broken it. >> that's why the daca conversation that they're having at the white house is so important.

but remember, we have to build the wall first. we have to enforce our borders so that we can keep our citizens and our country safe. >> i do want to talk to you about the wall but joe arpaio was convicted -- you say he's fought for the rule of law. he broke the law. >> he was pardoned by the president and -- >> are you comfortable with his racial profiling? >> people here in arizona want the border secure and that's why sheriff joe was so popular when he was in office. but it is not the be all end all issue that america is facing. of course i think it is the number one issue but there are so many things that are still on the table. we are in the process of growing our economy. look at the dow. it's at record highs. and i think that the next couple of paychecks that people get, they're going to start to realize what the tax cuts mean to them personally because more of their own money is going to remain in their pockets. >> yesterday you tweeted, the wall must be built. it sounds like president trump is -- i don't know if he's

having second thoughts but he's certainly redefining what that wall is. do you understand what the wall would look like? >> well, i know what i mean whenever i talk about the wall. >> what is that? >> we definitely need a physical barrier that not only sends a message that there's a right and wrong way to come into this country but it also slows down the progress of things that are coming into the country illegally, things like human trafficking, gun running, drug trafficking, contributing to the opioid crises here in our country. those things will be slowed down by a physical barrier. >> so you want a physical barrier, so a fence or a concrete wall? >> yes. i'm getting ready to explain that, alisyn. definitely we need to have a wall in some places. i can't wait to see the prototypes that are out. there will be fences in other areas and of course we're going to utilize technology to the fullest, empower the border patrol so they have the money and manpower to do what they were hired to do which is keep

people from coming into the country in the first place. the fourth piece of the puzzle is to make sure that we have accountability measures in place, across the country, so that employers don't hire people illeg illegally. and we have to have consequences for people who have chosen to come to the country the wrong way, either to sneak across the border or overstay their visas. those things have to have consequences rather than rewards. >> i want to ask about what you're calling for which is the physical wall. analysts say that building that wall, the money that it would take -- president trump is asking for 18 buil$18 billion, would cut into all the other things that you're talking about, the surveillance, the radar technology, the patrol boats and the border patrol agents. all of those, money would be siphoned off from to build the physical wall. >> actually, that's incorrect. the cost of illegal immigration is much more than $18 billion so i think -- >> i'm talking about the cost of

building the wall, just building the physical wall. he's asked for $18 billion and that money would come out of the pool of $33 billion that pays for all of those other things. >> the money that's saved, that will not be spent on illegal immigration will more than compensate for the cost of the physical wall. we have to honor the campaign promises that we've made, that i've made, that president trump's made, that most republicans that care about border security have made. people like jeff blake have always put amnesty, daca and open borders ahead of american citizens. we can't continue down to path. i'll tell you that ed rollins, my campaign chair who worked with ronald reagan said that his biggest regret was counting on congress to enforce our immigration laws whenever he was in office. we can't repeat the mistakes of the past. we can't fall for the bait and switch that we're often offered, which is we'll build the wall

later as long as we get our liberal policies in place. that's got to stop and i hope it stops with donald trump. >> last question, do you expect an endorsement from president trump? >> you know, i've gotten so many amazing endorsements. i'm so proud to have senator rand paul on my team. i've also had endorsements from people like sean hannity and laura ingraham -- >> and steve bannon. >> steve bannon, i don't know that i actually really got a full endorsement from steve -- >> i think you were his candidate. >> no, actually, i think that my message resonated with the things that donald trump said on the campaign trail. the america first agenda that actually began way back in 2010 with the tea party movement. >> i'm only looking at your press release where you say ward has received national endorsements from rand paul, laura ingraham, sean hannity, dick morris and steve bannon.