net worth grow by 20%. it looks like the american dream might well have moved up north. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week and i'll see you next week. miami brian stelter. it's time for "reliable sources". this is our weekly look at the story behind the story. right now we have brand new reporting about the trump white house calling rupert murdoch's "wall street journal" fake news. boy i thought trump liked the journal. coming up i'll explain what happened. plus does the media have a soft spot for celebrity candidates. and we have a message demanding the release of two of his journalists who are behind bars

right now. first the story of the week. the weather is cold, the markets are hot and fire and fury is even hotter. president trump is continuing to fight with author michael wolf calling the book fake. but trump keeps behaving in ways that back up wolf's thesis. the book, as you know by now, portrays a white house in crisis and the president incapable of doing the job. and this week's headlines, they were about rogue tweets, racist remarks, and the president with a shrinking schedule. now "the washington post" as you see there had no qualms about putting shirt hole in its headline. some tv networks decided to sanitize what the president said. >> our report includes an expletive once. it may not be appropriate for some of our younger viewers. >> we're not reporting the word. i think that's a mistake. i don't think it's right to censure the president or sugarcoat how he used that word.

>> that was the debate. broadcast networks had to keep in mind the kids and fcc regulators. here on cable news there's no regulations restricting obscenities. the curse word mattered less than the racist opinion behind the word and that's what toledo this moment in the white house. >> are you a racist? mr. president, will you respond to these questions about the statement, sir? >> what are report toeers to do? we've seen a wide elevatvariety reactions. >> the president of the united states is racist. all of us already knew that. >> meanwhile over on fox jessie waters said trump was telling it like it is. >> this is how the forgotten men and women talk at the bar.

is it graceful? no. is it offensive? of course. this is who trump is. >> but if this is who president trump is, who are we? and what is the role of the press at a moment like this? let's talk about it with van jones, cnn political commentator. also here with me a media critic for the "baltimore sun". on election night in 2016 you said his election in part is a white lash. are we seeing what a white lash means. >> not every trump voter has those views but part of his base that's not offended or holding their nose but enthusiastic about these inflammatory things he says and does. part of i think what is important to keep in mind not only were those comments racist, they are also just inaccurate. when you have 30% of americans have college degrees, 43% of

african immigrants have college degrees. 25% of nigerian-americans have advanced degrees. he's dealing with a stereotype from his childhood. i think what i'm proud of is the media called it like it is. if he said hey i only want skills based people, i only want engineers if they are from nigeria or norway i only want engineers. that's not racist. when you say the whole country is not welcomed, that's the definition, textbook on racism. he wasn't saying i want skills based people no matter what color he said i want people from this country no matter in norway, no matter how unqualified and i don't want anybody from these countries no matter how unqualified that's the definition of racism. >> what i saw on television especially on cnn and msnbc were anchors and reporters standing up for american values saying

i'm an immigrant, or my family came from so-and-so country. they were almost kind of asserting leadership because the president doesn't assert leadership. they were trying to stand up for what makes "america's got talent" -- america america. is that what you saw? >> i was proud to be a part of the profession. thierngs. you kn you. it's not the job of the media to lead causes. but the fundamental core and ethic of the united states is this idea it doesn't matter who you are, where you came from, you can make it here. you don't have to be rich to be worthy. you don't even have to have a college degree to be worthy. and not let quote one quote shirthole people come here. you wouldn't have the kennedy family. you wouldn't have so many great families. that's who we are. to have the president of the united states back away do that

and do it in an offensive and vulgar and low way athink it's objectively the case what he said was racist and i'm glad the media held that line. >> david, what about the idea if anchors on this channel or other channels stand up for america values, talk about the statue of liberty that comes across to some viewers as if the press is in opposition to trump. >> trump will play that. trump and his people will play that as if he's being attacked. that's the price we pay for doing good down the middle honest journalism when we have someone like this in the white house. by the way, usually when do you that it cost us money. in our case people who are doing the best kind of solid, responsible, down the middle journalism, "new york times," "the washington post" are doing pretty good in terms of digital sales and cnn ratings are pretty good. so we're not paying a price, we're doing god's work, rear

righteous and not paying a price when we have someone like this in the white house. one other thing i want to say. beyond american values, standing up for american values i thought cnn and msnbc especially did a great job of when they told this story about that comment of showing a pattern of racist comments from this president. they put it in context. and they had like jake tapper's discussion with him about the judge of mexican heritage who he said could not rule on this case because he was mexican-american. and jake tapper said is this not the very definition of racism? just as van did. and we have that conin tt conti. you see the pattern and it's very hard for any reasonable person in this country to deny what he is.

journalism is doing that. >> some critics said two years ago this pattern was already obvious. why did the press take so long to pay attention to it. on the other side people are defending him calling him a racist is an over exaggeration. what about the language. i have a daughter at home. i think about what she's hearing when the television is on. did we excessively use the curse word in the coverage. >> i was reluctant to use the term at first because, again, you do have that hesitation. has very little to do with journalistic standards. has to do with being a decent person. >> decency. >> you don't want to offend somebody who just turned and watching. they might be shocked. it's shocking these words are being used in the white house about whole countries and whole continents. that's much more shocking than some pundit repeating it. so i do think it's important we don't sanitize it too much.

we do have the opportunity on cable tv to tell it like it is. i think we did the right thing. >> there's still some situations where people are more comfortable using a curse word than saying something is racist. look at the broadcast networks. there was less talk about racism. >> that's interesting. one thing i do want to say is, i think that what the other thing journalists have to do is to go even deeper and point out a couple of things. not just african countries are all basket cases and all the african immigrants are here pulling america down we just shouldn't use the word shithole. african immigrants are coming here from oakland to the bronx. bringing down the crime rate. bringing up the entrepreneurship. same with haitians and el

salvadorians. maybe the people who are coming here may not be worthy that needs to be challenged based on facts. the educational attainment for african immigrants exceeds european immigrants. if you want to have the conversation on what will make america great let's have it. if you close the door to immigration as severely as trump wants to, shut it down, you know who gets hurt the most? trump's older white retiring voters who are going to then be living in a country where we'll be like japan. we don't have enough young people in america. we'll have a bunch of older people in america. we need immigration to keep the economy going. it's not just racist or counter factually but politically stupid to keep out the younger part of the world that wants to come here and make our economy work. this is dumb and wrong and racist across the board. let's have the conversation. not just about the vulgarism,

the vulgarism is the additional harm to the country. >> one more note about this, we're seeing new denials this morning from some of the republican lawmakers that were with trump when this meeting happened. i have one thing to say about that. if there was a news report that said i personally insulted an entire continent by using a racist remark i would deny it from the top of my lungs. the fact that the white house did not deny this, other news outlets confirmed it and later the president half hearted denied it it speaks for itself. if you said something like this, how would you react? anyway, up next here on reliable source someone is playing that childhood game. president trump is calling michael wolf mentally deranged. here wolf's response right after this.

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welcome back. let me tell you a story about the president and one of his favorite newspapers. it starts on thursday when president trump invited four report toers the white house. but first you have to know what happened one month before election day back in october 2016. at the time trump's campaign was reeling from "access hollywood" tape. he was denying stories alleging sexual misconduct in his past. producers at abc were thinking they might have a big scoop. they were pursuing an interview with a porn star who goes by the name of stormy daniels.

she had a story to tell. other news outlets were also chasing the story. but the interviews fizzled out. maybe she just had second thoughts. but a source at abc news told me they have a different theory. they think she was paid to stay silent. then on friday we learned this. >> the "wall street journal" is reporting that a woman was paid $130,000 a month before the election to keep quiet about a sexual encounter with donald trump. >> the journal's story cited people familiar with the matter. the white house calendar the story old and recycled and his attorney said trump denies the encounter. cohen didn't address the issue of payment. and also sa-- cnn has not been able to reach her directly. trump might not have even known

about a $130,000 payment. on thursday trump gave his first interview of 2018 to the "wall street journal". he wanted to talk and talk. it went on for 45 minute. when aides tried to wrap it up he kept answering questions. he even told the reporters he loves the paper's top editor. every month we'll do one of these promising more interviews to come. the journal interview came out thursday at 4:00 p.m. the main headline trump saying quote i probably have a very good relationship with kim jong-un. okay. so let's fast forward to friday afternoon. next day friday the journal posted its story about stormy daniels. yet another embarrassment for the white house. my heart went out the melania. imagine how it felt for her to read the story. to recap on thursday the rupert murdoch owned "wall street journal" score an oval office sit down. on friday the journal reveal as pay off to a porn star.

on saturday the journal gets labeled fake news. the white house said the "wall street journal" misquoted him. let's listen to the audio. did he say i probably have a very good relationship with kim jong-un or did he say i'd have. >> i probably have a very good relationship with kim jong-un. >> okay. that's the "wall street journal's" recording. they are standing by the quote saying i have, not i'd have. let's listen to the white house version. >> i'd probably have a very good relationship with kim jong-un. >> okay. so you let me know what you think. i heard a. other people heard i'd. this is leading to questions about his relationship with somebody else rupert murdoch. it leaves some wondering if somehow the interview on

thursday was designed to stop the friday story from happening. there's a lot of intrigue here so let's get into it with norm perlstein. and also steven brill, the founder of court tv. norm, first your interpretation of this "wall street journal" back and forth this battle going on. >> i think it's a short term problem for the "journal". trump's m.o. is always to be on the attack. this will fade in a few days and then back to business as usual. >> what's the connective tissue between the stormy daniels porn star story and the shithole story from earlier in the week and the fire and fury. to me the use of confidential sources. >> they are an important part of covering donald trump. >> you wrote a piece for "time" this week, argued in favor of leaks. >> i think that leaks are one of

the ways in which we as a country learn about how our leaders are behaving, what our leaders are thinking, what our leaders are doing and anonymity has been a part of the american fabric since the constitution was vest. >> leaks. sounds like a bad thing. no one want as leaks. >> but people like plants. it's a question of which way you want to think about it. >> steve, i want to get your interpretation of another development, donald trump talking about libel laws. it's a response to michael wolff's book. here's what he said. >> we're going take a strong look at our country's libel laws so that when somebody says something that is false and defamatory, that person will have meaningful recourse in our

courts. >> he wants to, it seems, strengthen the libel laws. these are state level laws. they are on the books in every state. does the president misunderstand how libel laws work, steve? >> well, he does among other things but first, obviously, what he's saying when he says he wants to take at that look at the libel laws, he says he wants to take a look at the constitution. i would warn him about two things. the first is that he is, if anyone, he's the primary beneficiary of our country's relatively rather liberal libel laws. if there was anyone who repeatedly says things that he knows are false, that are defamatory to people it has to be donald trump. you know, if you think about it, the single best potential plaintiff in the world is president obama. who luckily has the good grace not to think about things like a

libel suit, but the fact is that president trump repeatedly said that he knew was false or reckless about which is that president obama wasn't born in the united states and wasn't entitled to be the president. the second thing i would say is that the one reform we do need with regard to libel laws is a reform that would make anyone who has a lawyer write a frivolous letter are or threatening litigation, make that person pay the legal fees of the potential defendant who as frivolous as it must be has to hire a lawyer to read those lawyers and defend the potential threat when the athlete threat . >> is there any reason to be worried about the president bringing this back up? i know he talked about it a lot on the campaign trail.

he's only mentioned it once before as president. to hear him talking about legal action against people. >> well, the specific complaint is probably not worth worrying about, but if you think about it in terms of a bigger attack on the media and credibility of media then certainly worthying about and taking seriously. >> meantime "fire and fury" number one on amazon ten days, number one on "new york times" list. we saw a new back and forth between wolf and trump. trump tweet this overnight. let's put it on screen. he called the book a fake book by a mentally deranged author. just this morning wolf responding saying it seems my book is helping push the photo a crackup. if so what happens. let's teal with trump's tweet. would wolff have a case against

the president >> sure. the uncharacteristic undiplomatic thing i could say about that with trump and wolff you have the perfect pairing of a subject and author. >> you haven't been the biggest wolff fan over the years? >> well that speaks for itself. >> norm, what about you? we've seen ten days of coverage of "fire and fury." there's some details pointed out that's wrong. wolff has blown that off, he said read the book, decide for yourself. >> steve has a point but michael in all of his work, there are facts that you would quarrel with. but the big picture, the big themes, i think he usually gets right. >> there are those of us like norm and me who actually worry about the facts, even the small

facts, and don't necessarily think it's enough to paint a big picture that everybody knows is probably accurate, but -- and i think that over the years he's had those kinds of problems. >> michael wrote a book called "burn rate" that was about his experiences in the internet. his first book. in it he has an episode where he has me giving a speech in laguna beach, a place i've never been. but what i said was probably correct. >> that's perplexing. >> yes. >> norm great to see you. thank you for being here. steve as well. up next the executive producer in chief. we'll go inside the cabinet room turned tv studio. it's the phillips' lady!

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so how is the stable genius tour going? this week president trump did put on a show. partly in response to claims in michael wolff's book "fire and fury." this 55 meeting on immigration opened to cameras. president trump reprizing his role as ceo on "the apprentice". the following day the cabinet meeting president trump took a victory lap. he acknowledged he watched the coverage of the 55 minute meeting. he heard raef reviews. >> welcome back to the studio. nice to have you. >> there it is. i think that is the trump presidency right there in a seventh. welcome back to the studio.

now let's bring in tv critic, back for more now and joining us as well lynn sweet of the "chicago sun-times". she's a columnist and washington bureau chief. your reaction? >> my reaction is that it was very good, he allowed cameras in because we got to see some of the process of making the negotiation. when former president obama campaigned in 2008 he promised to put on tv all the health care negotiations and he didn't do that because they were not real negotiations. >> he blamed the republicans and said the republicans didn't want to be on tv. >> it didn't happen. the point is it didn't happen. it happened. it was interesting. and then the next day when he called it a studio, though, it showed how he was approaching it, not as much as a negotiation, he wanted to share it with the public. but as you said more of a show

with this just being the latest episode. >> now sometimes i'm watching tv i hear about the optic. i don't want to spend more than 60 seconds on the optic. the optics worked. visually it sent a message to the public. >> you're right. 58, 57, 56, i'm talking fast here. in term of the way -- in term of the way i think after all these years that we watched television, what happens especially with cable news when it's on all day, you dip in and out and when i looked at the screen, looked up at my desk on the screen in this meeting i thought well, i thought exactly what he wanted me to think. he looks in control. i haven't heard him repeat himself. it was obviously an attempt to knock down "fire and fury" and say i'm in control. two things about that. one, i didn't even -- dipping in and out i didn't hear his clear

misunderstanding. it's not misunderstanding. if you watched that as what a lot of average viewers did it was a success in terms of the optics. but then cable news and network news and all the newspapers gave us more context and deconstructed the performance and as lynn said that's what it was a performance. you have to really be wary when they let new to a room with cameras on and you have a performer sitting at the head of the table, it's constructed, it's a campaign ad and then they turn the cameras off or make the cameras leave and then they do the real business. i'm not impressed with that. in terms of pr, imterms of image meeting it was good. but brian the good news is we're doing a better job across the board and as journalists in explaining, hey, folks you might not have noticed but he doesn't

know what the hell a clean bill is. that's pretty basic in washington. >> lynn, you disagree? >> i just want to supplement and amplify to what you guys are saying because i think even when you use the term clean bill right now a lot of people if i could just tell people what we're talking about that means an up or down vote on one topic such as saving the dreamer here in the united states illegally through no fault of their own. what you saw in this exercise, whether or not and however you want to label it, let's leave the label alone found what you saw unfolding was a president who was kind of agreeing with the last person he talked to. when senator diane feinstein says can we have a vote on dreamers up or down that never happens in the senate. so when he seemed to agree with it for a moment until i think it was representative mccarthy who said no you don't want to do that, do you, that was

instructive. that was kind of capturing a moment that otherwise we would not see that might have happened behind a closed door whether or not the camera was there. >> every day we see a different white house pr strategy, there is a strategy. the interview with "wall street journal" on thursday is a good example. he let's in reporters. goes well. now the white house is warring with the "journal". sara sanders a asked for a correction. white house wanted a correction. on saturday night she went out and called the "journal" fake news. what does it tell you the murdoch relationship with white house. on the other hand let's let in the "journal" and calls the "journal" fake news. >> may i jump in on this one? >> yes. >> so this is an argument over a contraction, did president trump say i have a great relationship

with the north korean leader or i'd have one. now i listened to the white house tape and the "journal" tape and for the moment, i think if you really want to maybe be conclusive, have forensic audiologists on it. you have now this dilemma in addition to his turning on "wall street journal" interview where he couldn't get enough of it. when you read the transcript which they have posted he's saying oh, i don't want to go to my next meeting, we're doing a great time, we should do this all the time. now instead of just saying maybe there's a mistake, and that's the core of what so much you write and talk about, people make mistakes. government officials. not so much if you make a mistake it's what you do when you find that out. if let's say the contraction was

there you don't then call the "wall street journal" and call it fake news. you fix it. if you think and after listening to the tape you realize you did not say what you thought you said you have to live with it. >> david, i'll come to you first after the break oprah, the topic of oprah. oprah versus trump on 2020. what does the hype say about the media and about america. ♪ ♪

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oprah 2020. you heard the story, you saw the reporting this week. now snl is weighing in. here's how the show reacted last night. >> are you running? >> i thought about it for a while. >> long time. >> i would love to give you and answer. >> here it comes. >> but i don't know. >> no answer today. >> this is america. running for political office is tough. >> so we're not doing it. >> but it would be worth it to serve my country. >> which is why we're going to

do it. >> leslie jones is going to be busy playing oprah in the months, maybe years to come. here's what i know for sure. when oprah stepped on that golden globe stage on sunday she new exactly what she was doing. i started calling reaching out to her friends and business associates and it became clear that she's thinking about running for president in 2020. she's not made her mind up. she's thinking about it. some of those friends that called me back, three close friends some are encouraging her, urging her to make the run, to challenge president trump. let's discuss this back with our panel. david, i know that pre-donald trump, this might not get much attention the idea of a tv star running for president, using their tv platform as a launching pad. now isn't it pretty serious? >> i think it absolutely is. i'll tell you why i think it is so serious, brian. in that nine minutes or whatever

it was of that speech she caught two tremendously powerful cultural currents in this country. and i don't want to sound like all media stories go back to trump but one of them is the moral vacuum in leadership. she was someone -- this country really wants to hear someone speak about morality in the white house instead of how much money they can make now that they are being sworn in. when she spoke, i went yes, moral authority. she turned a sunday night award show from the golden globes into a sound morning almost religious service by tapping into that need. number one. number two this tremendous epic, cultural historic women's moment in this culture, she spoke to that. listen that's a jadeed crowd. they not only came to their feet

they were yelling and screaming. it was something positive. it spoke to the better angels than the worse. it spoke to public service instead of private gain. she's the anti-trump. if she wins she's there. if she enters the race she will get it. will she run? i think it's possible. >> lynn, what about you there in chicago where the oprah winfrey show was produced for so many years. does the week of coverage week of chatter here reflect a bias among journalists. do they have a soft spot for celebrity candidates? >> i think, brian and david, i think it shows journalists like news and that's a soft spot. when oprah gives a speech like that i call that news. so let's look at what is happening here. yes i'm sitting in a chilly chicago a few blocks from where oprah went from a local talk show in chicago to become a

global figure. you could say and one of her, someone who is in her circle said maybe she's better in terms of being a moral authority to say where she is now than to be president. that being said when her pal gayle said the morning after on the golden globes that she's thinking about it i take that in a few ways. the door could have been shut but there's a rule in politics that i learned from the late harold washington in chicago you always keep them guessing. think from the psychological operation view of this, the question now is not whether or not oprah run, the question is whether or not this gets into the head of president trump. so you take this step by step. and by leaving it open, it doesn't hurt from the perspective of people who know oprah. a lot has to happen, and one

other point, right now there's a vacuum in the democratic 2020 field. there's no overwhelming figure that we think is a front-runner as hillary clinton was in 2016. and the democrats are about to change their rules diminishing the rules of super delegates. so the rise of a so-called insider candidate who comes from the democratic establishment is going to be, that possibility is diminished in 2020. with all these factors it makes sense for oprah to be. also take note because i covered this from when she did become a political figure in 2008 to help her friend barack obama in the primaries, that was not a decision made lightly and even though she was friends with the former president and his wife, former first lady michele, for her to use the chips from her brand to go out in a democratic

primary, running against a woman, people who watched her show, buy her magazines and everything else, that was a big step for her. and she doesn't take these steps lightly. >> lynn, david, thank you both. i have a feeling we'll be talking about this in the future. oprah appeared for the first time on cbs in the wake of the golden globes speech. these a correspondent on cbs. she was on cbs sunday morning speaking about the times up initiative. she thinks about taking on trump, cbs is giving her a powerful broadcast platform. cbs has no comment oprah's possible running for president. has to get a lot more serious before cutting ties with her. up next these two reuters journalists in myanmar can face up to 14 years in jail. hear the story and hear from the top editor of reuters after this.

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. 14 years in prison, that's the potential fate for these two reuters journalists if they are found guilty of violating myanmar official secret. they were arrested one month ago and they remain behind bars and time is of the essence. joining me now is steve ed adle the editor in chief. there is a hearing coming up on january 23rd. what is the reason your two reporters were detained? >> while they were out reporting on december 12th they were asked by a couple policemen and they went to see the policemen and had a conversation and as soon as they left, they were surrounded by many police and they were handcuffed and away. we didn't know that for a couple days. but the prosecutors have since said they're bringing charges under the official secrets act

which is a colonel era law under british india in 1923 to try to combat activity being used against journalists in 2018 who are working for an international news organization and abiding by trust principles, integrity and they weren't taking sides, they were just reporting. >> is this an attempt by the authorities there to stop coverage of what's hapwipening with the muslim population? >> both to stop these reporters who are very good reporters reporting on something of huge importance and also clearly deteres other people from taking that risk because they face potentially 14 years in prison. >> the prosecutors are alleging that the two reporters were in possession of secret documents but the response is, the police officers gave them those documents as a pretext to arrest them. >> it's been reported that their families told them that. we haven't had contact with them. >> you have not had any contact with your reporters? >> they have a lawyer and the lawyer has had some contact with

them. they were out there reporting and weren't doing anything wrong, breaking any rules. reporting the way you or i would report a story and arrested in the course of their work and they reported on something that everybody else would like to know about. >> quite scary for you and your colleagues, what is happening behind the scenes? >> tremendous support. secretary tillerson made a statement the eu and u.n. and former president clinton gave a very strong statement, senator mccain just gave a great statement and quiet diplomacy going on, as well. we also want to keep public attention on this. we think that broad public attention globally in a sustained way, very difficult with news cycles so short. there's always some noise out there that gets in the way of an important sustained story like this. i appreciate you taking interest and i hope other people will take interest. two young journalists with families out doing their jobs in what we all support, free and independent journalism and for

those people to get arrested and potentially imprison for 14 years is a terrible story and we're looking at more of this going on around the world. in 15 countries, journalists have been attack ed using the framework of fake news in the past year. more than twice as many journalists in 2017 were arrested for supposedly presenting false news than were arrested in the previous year. so, this whole idea of fake news and false news is spreading around the world and it's creating a real danger for journalists everywhere. >> steve, thank you there being here. >> thank you. >> we'll be in touched. that's all for this televised version of "reliable sources" full coverage of all the media news and nightly news, as well. and all the rest of the world's media news. sign up as reliablesources.com and we'll see you back here next time this week. stay tuned.

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terrifying alert. panic in hawaii after a false alarm warning people to seek shelter from an incoming ballistic missile. >> when we got the alarm, we were actually terrified. we diddant know what to do. here with the very latest, live. plus, anger and outrage after president trump's racist remarks after immigrants from africa nations and disparaging words for haitians. and now the first haitian american