with us tonight. up next on cnn, a new film on the big business of big game hunting. the controversy and the debate, do not miss this. "trophy" starts right now. good night.

pz. >> let's be real quiet because there's a lot of wind today. >> are you ready to shoot a big o one? we're going to try. >> there's deer there. >> there's deer everywhere. >> we have to be able to tell how old he is before we can make that decision. >> he's going to walk up there.

>> that's a good one. get comfortable and get ready 37. take your time. aim just to the right, okay? you can wait if you want. but that's a shelter shot right there. >> he's getting up, dad. >> he's not going anywhere. don't worry. >> okay, let's go. >> yes. >> are your hands shaking? let's go.

>> look at the horns on this guy. look at that. that's a textbook shot, jasper. >> let's try that. >> that's what we want right there. smile. first trophy buck. we're done. that's history. you're on to the big trophies.

>> one, two, three.

>> the breathing is good. short, deep breaths. >> the operation goes very quickly. it's painless.

probably less danger than a human being having its wisdom tooth out. he will be back with his friends within minutes. it will take about two years before he goes through the same procedure again and we know that the poachers prefer rhinos with long horns. every two years to save his life i think if it he had an opinion to give to you, he would say i'm very happy to sacrifice my horn in order to save my life. there he is already walking normally. he looks fine.

>> i truly believe that i have the recipe to save the rhino from extinction. it's to keep the rhinos alive and breeding more and more. i will give you a challenge. give me one animal that's gone extinct while farmers were breeding it and making money. there's not one. not one.

>> how is the lamb? that's what we do. we raise babies. we feed them, we keep the try to breed good genetics and raise the next jgeneration. i have your friend. your little brother. let's go. so those lambs will be three months old when they are weaned. they will go to central texas and that lamb will be harvested and typically will go to your high u end grocery chains and to a few specialty restaurants. >> i think i have a problem of people thinking all animals are pets. you can't explain that to people. you raise a chicken to kill a chicken b to eat a chicken, if they can't understand that from infantile frame of mind, i don't

know how to get in their mind. all i can tell them is i love raising animals. i love those lambs. even the ones that are going to be lamb chops for somebody's july 4th. but that's what they are for. they are not for anything else.

>> keep it on the grasp. >> you are closing his nose. let me close your nose also. >> thank you, guys. >> there's a big industry now in

our country. not just crocodiles, lions, buffalo, everything has been breed for a purpose at the end of the day. so sure, some of them will be hunted. we are as humans going to eat it, we are going to use the skins and then that's the cycle of life. >> john! >> hello? yes?

>> slowly, slowly. >> they are wild animals. even if they have been kept in cav captivity, they will kill you in an instant and eat you up. so then once he's closed up, he's loaded and ready for transport to his next destination.

>> if you don't come to vegas, your business will eventually want mine. this is the place to come. and everyone tries to be better than the next person. bleeding lions or buffalo, it's a passion and be able to breed them and make sure you get better quality and genetics and you are proud of it. >> the international show is the largest hunting convention in the planet. we have 2,000 booths that are out there on the floor. we'll probably run 20,000 different folks through here from all over the world. and you'll be able to see anything that you want in terms of hunting, hunting support and conservation. >> i know that a lot of people are confused how hunting and

conservation go together. >> hunt south africa. >> two hours to go, there was an auction item that was an elephant hunt. and that elephant hunt sold for about $50,000. and that money will all go back into conservation. >> i don't know. my little granddaughter says i don't know why she shoots a zebra. i'm losing face with my 3-year-old little granddaughter because i'm going to go shoot a zebra. >> crocodiles are really mean. i don't feel bad about killing one of those. besides, i want a pair of boots.

and a purse and a wallet. and a mount. >> you can puck the actual animal you want. you can see if you want a male or a female, older, younger, color, type of fur, you can just pick whatever animal you want from the menu that they offer you. see the price and book the kill. >> safari club convention is the meat market for exotic species. one of the prime attractions is to get a big five grand slam. so you shoot one of each of the following species, buffalo, costs about $8,000. leopards for about $20,000. elephants for $45,000. and the most expensive because it's the rarest is the rhino for

$350,000. so there's all this sort of stuff that encourages this collecting, this obsessiveness for more and more and the status is applied to the individual hunter who achieves those ends. >> i was happen to be at safari club and discussing fish and wildlife and there was a rumor they want. ed to put lions on the threatened list and regulate their take. i decided at that moment if the big five was my goal, then i had to step my plans up. drastically. >> hunters remorse. it's not been. something i have experienced recently. but as a child, i certainly remember it. >> when i was a little boy, i

had a bb gun. i can vividly my mother telling me you can go shoot birds but don't shoot a red bird. what did i do? i u went and shot a red bird. and i can still remember holding that bird in my hands and looking at its beak and just seeing how beautiful it was and how it was made. right there in that moment, i realized that there's no way i could have loved that bird anymore. even though it was dead. and i think a lot of us as tr trophy hunters feel the same way. we just want that experience to go and hunt that animal one time. we really just want one. , go!

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what's wrong, my baby. yeah, johnny. >> good morning.

>> now what? >> an adult rhino. >> as she got her tusk? >> she's got a 2-year-old. >> [ bleep ] me. it never stops, does it. >> yeah. >> heartbreaking. >> he doesn't know what to do with itself.

>> the goal of this farm and myself is to breed 200 rhinos a year. i have lost quite a few of my breeding stock. disease will always be a factor. unfortunately, so will poaching. the odds are stacked against them. and i'm always for the underdog. let more to the point, i've got to know them and they are the last animal in the world that

deserves the persecution. they don't deserve it. they are the nicest, most user friendly animal that wants to stay this side of extinction. >> they definitely are the most magical creatures. i can sit and watch them for hours and hours and hours. and they are ancient. they don't look like they belong in today's life. yet they are still here. i'm hoping that people get a whiff of places like this, what we are trying to do here. that more of them will start thinking of opening their own breeding operations so hopefully together we can revive the numbers before we destroy another species because of manki mankind.

>> almost every other wild animal has to be killed to get what people want. whether that is horns, skin, meat, rhino is the only exception and that's why i concentrate on rhinos because you don't have to hunt them. you don't have to kill them. you shouldn't because they are growing gold for you. the rhino horn has been around for millions of years. and fortunately, more people believe in rhino horn than there are crihristians on this earth. that's really difficult to tell 600 million christians that god doesn't exist. at the same time, you're not going to tell people rhino horn doesn't work. >> this one weighs about 5 key

lees. the retail of this one would be about a quarter million dollars on the black market. it's more expensive than gold or heroin by weight. >> the logical part of it is that i have four ton of rhino horn in expensive security. which very conservatively i could get $16 million, but we're not allow ed to sell it. when i u started this project, it was legal to sell rhino horn in south africa. in 2009 our government put a moratorium on the trade in rhino horn that since the ban poaching has skyrocketed.

the very crook who now will kill a rhino and sell it illegally, if he could sell the horn legally, he would never kill a rhino. who would kill the hen that kills the golden egg. >> this is one of the

destinations in africa where there's no fences. it's absolutely open. you have to work for your trophy. we believe here that if you want to hubt, it's all in the food. it's giving also the animal a chance. so for us, the three things is if it hears you, smells you or sees you, it's game over. >> the build up to pulling that trigger in my case started 18 months ago. so it's a long build up to that point. preparation, planning, plane tickets, paying a deposit on safari, talking about the plans, what are we going to do, how are we going to hunt him. all the planning and then finding that the animal is

coming and then the animal is there. and thn you pull the trigger. then boom, you got him. then all of that anticipation changes into a different emotion of joy and relief and excitement and anticipation. because you want to go over to him and see what does he look like. what does he feel like. where did he fall.

>> what are you looking at? >> that's a young bull. >> let's go. let's go. >> it's too dangerous. they are female. they are all females. an old animal that we can

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for the better part of two centuries now, you have this hunting culture in britain and now america that is somehow rugged and exciting to be out in the wilderness and hunting. teddy roosevelt bought bo that when he hunted thousands of animals and started to record all these kills. the hunters' accounts of what they are doing makes me sick to my stomach about finding this amazing bull elephant and putting a bullet in this animal's head and that gives them a rush of excitement. now they cloak that in money, conservation, helping people. so roosevelt is declaring these national parks and protecting wilderness, but he's killing thousands of animals at the same time because he wanted to be able to do that hubt iing.

he wanted to be able to consume the wild animals. the hunting industry is is trying to convince people that the way it was in roosevelt's time is the way it still is today. >> the hunter was somebody who was willing to go out and spend three weeks walking around on foot, tracking an elephant, tracking a lion to shoot it, take home a trophy. there was a challenge, there was a sense of sport. but what has happened in the last 10 or 15 years has been. a growing segment of the hunting demographic, which referred to as the shooters. and the shooters may have to spend as much money as it takes to get a three-week permit. but if they can kill everything in the first two days, they will do it and fly home. it's that mentality that really fed the birth of the hunting industry.

basically you're going shopping in some import/export place and you have rr rug and your mantelpiece, but it's just killing. >> i'm out of bullets. >> he's down. >> that is one big [ bleep ] crocodile. >> it's been worth every penny as long as he can pitch it out. >> something is coming out. that's not yours. is that yours?

>> i don't know. no, but i want to shoot it right now. i want to have two. sdwl that can't be yours swimming out there. that's impossible. >> i want to shoot. is that the one? >> yeah. >> what's this? >> it's just waiting for us to get close. it's moving its eye.

>> did you shoot? >> oh yeah, [ bleep ]. >> he's destroyed. >> they will fix it. that's what taxidermists do. >> i'm done for the day. it's party time, boys. sf>> how much for that sucker? >> how much was cecil? >> like $50,000.

>> i was in the industry for 10 or 12 years and because we had a lot of game in the area, i had some other outfitters those years which always contact me and said please can i bring a client over and hunt. and i said, okay, fine, bring the clients. then i start meeting overseas clients and he looked at me like it could become a good business. so we offer our clients basically the lodge, jacuzzi and then the hunting area. you can drive around and spot the animals. you get off and try to get up to a point where you can have a clear shot at that animal. >> good shot. >> normally in the middle of the day when it's really hot, we bring the clients into the blind area where they can sit down for the rest of the afternoon.

so it's making really comfortable. the client can stand rigstraigt and be able to shoot through that slot over there. maybe like 25 yards we will put some feeders out here as well so the animals can only come into the certain areas where there's water for drinking. then we clear out around the water points with a blind saw because you'd like to see the animals when they come in. that makes it excite l hunt and make it is a natural environment, which is very important. you got the wrong kind. you should get a guide that kills things. okay, sorry. we don't feed no americans if they don't shoot something. >> i would love to have a giraffe. i probably would shoot it myself too. he says it's too expensive and we don't have room for it in our

house. i will find room for it in our house. even if i would have to build on to the trophy room, which i don't want to. >> it's a beautiful animal. i got one of those last year. i still have a wart hog and a baa boon and a bush pig, the list is still pretty big. we have the rest of this day and two more days to hunt. we'll try to go our best to get the most on the list. it's not as easy. it seems like once we're going for them, they are a little squidis skiddish. >> we just try to get all of the grass out of the way. wash all the blood off.

>> animals get the feeling and get used to our environment. and then eventually they got experience to allow them to go after the big five. >> this is the most expensive one. >> that was a good shot. >> beautiful. >> i'm happy she got a second one. >> let's have another one to the list.

>> every outfitter has a lot of clients or find a good hunting business. you shoot out your animals so you have to buy in new blood. the breeding is very important because that's where the money is is. the money is is in the breeding. >> we have had buffalo egofor between $4 and $5 million. it's good for the industry. very big demand and a good market. >> you have the capitalist system, making money off

wildlife. so it's remarkable development but in south africa they went through an incredible period of removing nature tr their countryside in the 1800s. and they literally removed everything. it's only been in the last 20, 25 years that there has been this recognition that they could take private land and private owners themselves, could profit by restoring these areas. now until recently, this land was mostly used for livestock. but a lot of people decided, well, we could get more revenue if we do game ranching. you'd get much more money than raising cows. in this model, they are filling the market by first going rare species like sable that are still attractive for hunters and start breeding your buffalo. so they have huge horns.

and then as the market saturates, people are thinking, well, you know, i've got all this land. and we could bring back big five. now you actually have got a restored ecosystem. and so this has been a success story. there are far more lions in south africa now than there were 100 years ago. there's far more predators in general in south africa than there were 100 years ago. initially it may have been because this would have involved the slaughter of some animals, but then you could go towards more naturalistic thing that would not have happened otherwise. if we're only going to restrict what we view as domesticated animals to those species that have then domesticated hundreds of thousands of years ago, then we're just going to see a lot of these species go away. and i think there are few species like rhino that there

should be rhino farms. and one needs to recognize that what they have achieved in south africa should not be lost. >> this was a breeding buffalo bull. this buffalo bull was bought for millions and eventually he was done breeding. we had to put him out there for hunting. so we have the canadian club came over and he was happy to have such a beautiful trophy. so nothing goes to waste. even that animal. and we hope maybe these 50 or 70 babies running around that one day he's going to be honored to put him up on the trophy room

where someone can walk in and say that was a top breeder and still be honored today as you look as a great trophy. it makes a great trophy. >> do you ever get attached to a lion that it's hard to release it for a hunt? is there some animal like this one? >> all animals, it doesn't matter what animal it is. if you love animals, you'll get attached to them. you go out there every day, you see this animal, you feed it, of course. but there will be a time when you have to let go. can we cut this. >> that is true. there is animals you can't let

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. >> yeah. >> you caught him running. oh my.

[ animal moaning ] have you come to the site? >> where? >> to the chase in. >> yeah. >> it's bent a little bit back.

almost finished.

. >> doesn't have the trophy quality of a big elephant. it will never grow big. so, yeah.

. >> he's ran elephant we have to hunt for the community, as a part of the quota, they get some

animals we have harvest for me. 15 years ago, people poach animals because they want meat and there was no value to the animal for them. now they know, they must protect the wild life. it's not only the meat, it's this actually money coming back into their pockets.

. >> it's a current problem then. somebody will get eaten. it's just a matter of time. maybe it's better people cry about a dead lion than we cry about a dead person.

it's better that way. >> we go to extreme lengths for keeping people on the control program? >> 95% of the time. get them pack into where they belong and get the two separate. because they don't mix well. people are killed every year by elephant and hippo and crocodile and lion. bottom line, here, certainly. lions come in to absolutely destroy a guy's livelihoos. owe livelihood. at the end of the day, we are

trying to approach the world. >> we try to teach people the importance of animals. >> stay. stay. be good boy. be good boy. sta stay. >> david, you don't. let me tell you, you definitely don't. that one over there was only 14 months old. i think two of them were

pregnant and then another cow with a young calf was also wounded. she still has a bullet in her brings cut. whether that will prove or not. we don't know. he's sick. i can give you ten, 13 calfs. >> that is all whacked out in one month. >> everybody is getting mutilated. it means that there is definitely sort of locals

involved. >> the rhinos know not to stand in the middle of them quietly and then maybe you have two guys, one banging that side, one banging this side. that's how i pictured it in my nightmar nightmare. >> but what i was saying is, we will have a hard time convincing the -- >> yes. i know that better than any of you. i'm there. i'm in the fight, all day and every day.

so i know that i only from pro and anti-. both of those approaches have mirrored in cases and nightmare. the motives behind the commercial acts are seldom animal based. they're based on the pay at steak. >> i don't have misery for your cause. not at all. >> for the rhinos, not for my cause. try an keep them alive. that's all i'm asking everybody. >> and let me tell you something, if you are anti-trade, then you are anti-legal trade. 13 there's two things i want you to think about. firstly, you are keeping the money away from me, which i need to protect my rhino. secondly, if you are anti-legal prey by implex to me, you are

pro illegal trade and those are the poach eers. >> the fact of the matter is, the fact of the matter is, in ten years time, there is not legalization, you won't see one rhino here. they'll all be dead or gone. that's the fact of the matter. >>

. >> if the husband had been going into the bush and shooting elephants, over the last ten years, would have accounted for a couple thousand elephant at least. so, yeah, they're bad guys.

done a lot of bad things. >> we are going to live. come back, quickly, quickly.

. >> the future in the bush, there is no future. otherwise, you can die, leaving your family behind or you are jailed, you are a young guy with plenty of future to your side. i know if we stay like this we will end up in some way changing. that's not going forward. >> we find this community and another community further away they will go to all length to get what they want.

>> yeah. >> you need to look in the mail every morning. i make a point of it. i look in the mirror, you got to make sure you don't cross the bounds that we can't lows our humanity for humanity. i think it's important. gets a hush and we do things sometimes that you saw it scare people. but we have to do what we have to keep this fight going. >> it's a distinction

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. i list them to 20. >> we don't have a file of the previous security company. i will have a suspicion that some will result in the rhino

poaching. one of the team dark was the second in command. that is after the time he was here. i have a very reliable report from the police. >> that is the worst part. your friends, the friends of the rhino, you feel you can't trust anybody. >> i won't be able to guarantee zero losses on this property. i can say to you most of those incidents are met as a direct result of having the wrong people on site with not the right equipment, not the right training, not being highly motivated. >> we will train to the elite reaction to the you'llers.

>> i don't necessarily want to see them in a body bag, but i would like to upset them for them to say, no, no, no, you don't want to go to that place. >> while a lot of politicians are praying for peace, we are praying for war. more conflict is probably needed in this arena to sort out the proble problem. >> there will be expense the radar is somewhere. . this is costing me nearly a million. then there is the under ground man and information man.

>> i mean, why did they come in here? >> they all went up here into this comp to some see why. just because why. >> i feel very helpless, you know. >>. >> good morning, darling. this one is four months old. >> i don't think anybody ever thought any private person would

have 1,300 rhinos and next year we're going to have 200 more maybe. but i suppose it's an addiction, i would think. >> where do you think it's going to stop? >> when he kicks the bucket, i guess. then hopefully one of his sons will carry on. he won't stop before he's 6-foot unde under. >> my dream is to carry on what my dads do, to carry on the rhino breeding and fortunately, i have the irony, i wouldn't breed rhino, because it's too expensive and it's very high risk. i mean, we've had death threats here at the house, if i seen what he's gone through in sort

of the last 15 years, his financial situation has gotten gradually worse and worse the more rhino he's acquiring. >> i have invested $50 million in this project for virtually no retur return. >> this project will come to an end unless it is making money. i can go on selling my assets, but it is not sustainable in the long run. >> i used to have six resorts. i used to have over 3,000 besd. all the resorts have been and this is the last one that will be sold on auction.

>> so after taking various advice, i believe i don't have any option but to take the government to court to lift the moratorium. if i don't, i will run out of money and my rhinos will be killed by poachers. [ snoring ]

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well, unfortunately, this is my birthday present, i guess, they've listed the li on as threatened and another state endangered. so effectively lion hunting is over. now when this all goes into effect, i don't know. we're just a few months out, so maybe we're okay. maybe we're not. maybe we have to go to a new country. maybe the whole trip is ruined. i don't know t. thing that makes

me the mad set this service director dan ash says and i quote, that it's a privilege, not a right, for us to bring back these trophies from other countries. you know, i don't think he was elected by anybody. i think he's an appointed bureaucrat and he has no right to tell me what my rights are and what a privilege of being a u.s. citizen is. i want to be from there for the first time of the hunting season. we planned it that way. i'm going the first time we can this year. it might not be early enough. >> just once in a while an individual animal can cap cure the public imagination and change public attitudes. >> world wide outrage over the death of sesil the lion, killed by an american dentist. >> it grand swelled into real action. >> you all he's hamburgers.

that was not a hunt. that was a murder. >> and this guy might have quite a collection of animal heads. here she posing next to a bear he shot. he killed like half of noah's arc. >> killing a lion for sport. not in the era of instagram and facebook and a generation brought up to relate to simba. >> you will always be there, right? >> no, we won't, i'll be murdered by the dentist from america. see that white guy in his 50s. >> you hunted cecil the lion like a -- >> dennis palmer, welcome to the court of public opinion. >> it hurts me that social media is getting this story out. >> i'm going to get really angry. >> what would happen if you were being hunted? >> i will never forget what you did. >> in the wake of public outrage over cecil the lion, three

airlines are considering bans on carrying trophies. >> as long as someone provides the clothing, the scopes the outdoor gear and it makes the big corporate players think about how closely they want to be associated with certain practices, i think that will change and it will change fast and people will say, i don't want to be a part of this. >> we will shame these people. we will os ra size these people. we will put such mash on our government so they have nowhere to go. it isn't just lions, it's certain people that breed them. 3 million round a year, feeding them, looking after them, says he can no longer afford to pay

for that, he will have to kill them unless they sell the rhino horns. that is enough. we won't allow that to happen. >> welcome. i'm here tonight to moderate debate between two very prominent conservationists. will trefrs, the born free foundation and mr. john hume. >> i'm very keen to hear what he's going to say. he has far more experience than i am in ruling the public. don't forgot that. he woos the public. that's how they make money. that's why he's so good at it. >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen, i'm a retired property developer and now custodian of 1, are 403 rhinos.

if i can sell the horns, my 1,400 will become 2,000, 3,000 and 10,000. ki not see what is wrong with that when my rhinos are happy alive. come and see them where they are. i have the recipe. but it takes a lot of money. i have a way to raise the money without going begging all over the world. all i need is for it to be legal. >> i don't think there is any legitimate case of you having these animals on private areas of land, where you can harvest them, profit from them. pump them into the international market where it can lead to more destruction. pluz pluz. >> excuse me, sir, i don't think you understand africa. you simply don't understand africa. >> how many consumers can you supply from your rhinos? >> i trim my horns every two

years, so i can produce with my current rhino 1 hundred a year. >> what about the rest of the population? >> they must do the same. that's why i want to give them to the community. i want to teach the community. >> indian rhino, won't you flood your market? >> you want me to give up and let my rhino all die? >> what about the global rhino in. >> let the global rhino do the same this everything. >> you have to speak for all rhino, not just yours. >> if it pays it stays principles the commoditification of wild life, elephants will stay if we can sell their ivory, lions can stay if the wealthy elite can shoot for fun and rhinos will be similar to mr. hume, if their horns can be sold to remote delooted buyers, what a nature that will be, contained, confined, commercialized and counterfeit.

>> south africa is yet to decide on buying and selling horns. it can open up a $2 million market and the face of the critically endangered species. >> when we assess the trade, what the trade is doing the international trade and the international traders. >> the moratorium is one of the seasons why poaching escalates. >> we expect that poaching is one of the effects we need to consider and the way to deal with poaching immediately now is by lifting a moratoriumoratoriu. >> the department accepts that or encourages poaching. >> no my department does not accept that. there are a number of factors

that contribute to poaching and miability to report t. moratorium is one of them. if i don't see a report, it is the main one, it does not find it is the only one. >> and if we do not do that now the escalation of poaching continues. >> the reason why there is poaching -- >> wouldn't you say this is -- i have been around rhinos a very long time, all of a sudden i'm very poor. >> but the point is there is an ecotourism market and a hunting market which enables them to capitalize their efforts. they say they prefer him not to, that's a choice not to exploit a particular wing. >> you understand correctly, that if you had, you can sell to tourists and the tourists can pack and go with the horns, but to them, we have brought a 2,000

rhinos say for example for mr. hume down by one, we have slaughtered and where is the preservation of the rhinos? >> my lady, consider that for the moment an litically, the entire world can settle this about the preservation of the species. it's on the brink of extinction, virtually. we say we have that, what is a machine to the say, well, you can go having them. it is actually quite sad that the environmental minister can resort to an allegation in the midst of all people trying to preserve the species through their allegation that you can go and weigh any hunted, killed.

if there were only ten left in the world and you had those stakes and you had the same argument, we'll see, we'll have them, ship them. then we will be down to one him with you put that one in the museu museum. >> they like to talk about the numberings nay are green washing killing. that's psychological behavior. the change is coming. we will put an end to this. >> i'm actually a conservation hunter. we are very constious about what we do. >> it's all hunting. no matter what, no matter the resolve. i'm a conservationist point of

view. the money that comes in from hunting in those areas for those conserveancys are is actually what's keeping them there. >> you think your money goes anywhere except in someone's back pocket? you are breeding corruption. >> we will go to the cool we paid for. >> go to the schools. if you want to build a school. i will shake your hand and come build it with you. why do you have to shoot animals? >> i'm saying that's a part of our industry. that's an option. >> it's murder. >> it's not murder, it's an animal. if you murder a chicken you had for lunch in. >> i don't eat meat, sweet heart, i'm vegan. i don't eat meat because i have regards for all species and all breathing living -- . >> it's human nature to be empathetic with the organizations.

the animals rights, that's their thinking the individual as if that's going to somehow protect the entire area the ecosystem. it's not. so they think in terms of bambi or simba or fifi. because we can see fifiand we send out photographs of fifis to our donors, that's great. okay. but fifimight be in the right middle place in the most protected area, you are ignoring everywhere around the periphery, all people are cut cutting away, bringing their livestock next to fifi. this all goes. they're ignoring the fact that local people is being killed by lions, trampled through losing their krobs that they do not share their valuesome. if you cannot empathize local people, then are you not going to be at all successful in protecting them in the long

term. other than, you have the hunters who are convince thad where they operate, they're the last bastion of support to protect these areas. to a local welfare organization, no, no animal must die. the reality of hunting is that, yes, there are a few places where hunting does make a difference, in many areas, economics don't add up. they're not generating that money. the land is being lost, especially in the most corrupt countries. we've seen that happen over and over in many parts of africa, they go out, say everything is fine, no, things are not fine. things are declining. seafood with new tasting plate s small plates, with big flavor- like yucatan shrimp in chili-lime butter and caramelized pineapple. and if you like hot, buttery maine lobster, check out this petite red lobster roll. for new entrees, explore globally-inspired dishes like spicy dragon shrimp.

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what we do is run the camp and kind of manage the under ground management of the poaching in the area and we get a day of rest when foreign hunters come in to hunt here, which really subsidizes the

money that i have to run my anti-poaching. you can imagine a little dust and dirt and rain and firearms take a bit of a hammering. that's why we like this ak action. good old ak, you can't really go wrong with it. >> we are fighting to save this for the community while people kill it. it's, it really is pretty weird, we're fighting to save something so somebody else can kill it. it just comes back to control, if it morals sustainably. you can assimilate the two. the poachers and the commercial

hunters. but the difference is, the poachers, they shoot anything for their teeth. literally anything. and they will shoot every last one that there is because there's a commercial driven desire for these teeth. on the hunting side, it's dun kirky, where there is a very carefully measured off tech. i can live with that, killing every last animal, no, can't live with that, won't do that, that's just wrong. >> you load it up? >> no. >> you load up. you never know what can bump you. >> thank you. >> you know what we will need. we have three more cases. it's your call, your preference. >> i'm not sure i'm paying for the hippo.

>> 1450. >> hospital for a buffalo? >> 5, 5. >> okay. >> okay. . >> this is one of now probably 17 beds you put up so far, the hippo parlor and our biggest problem is they're rotting really quebec. they're only lasting two or three days, so, hopefully the next two days while it's still fresh and give us a bit of luck. >> the bible says he gave man

dominion over all the animals and that dominion comes with a responsibility. but it also means it's the right to use. so i think that is a big part of it. it's a big part of appreciating god's creation. some think, how can you go out and shoot god's creation? that's a totally false statement, a false point of view. god said, we have dominion over the animals, that means we can choose what we can do over them. it's a very powerful statement in the bible. >> i think it does make it more special for me to be a believer, when i put my hand on that lion, ki promise you at that moment as with all of my life, anybody that believes in evolution is a complete fool. i just don't understand how people can't understand how god breathes that animal into

existence there's a big lion. yes. >> he's got a big head. >> wow.

>> the thought came to mind as i was coming here and beginning to feel the emotion and the anticipation of this big hunt. i've been a hunter my whole life. they say i fell out of the hunting vehicle when i was 2 or 3 years old and landed on my head. maybe that's what's wrong with me sometimes. and i lost my dad a few years ago. and he was a hunter. at the time, i was a little angry with him, the way he would treat me, that he would do funny things to me to make me learn to hunt. we'd be in a pickup, and whether it was a rabbit or a deer, summer or winter, we'd be driving along and he'd see some game. and all he'd do is turn the engine off and sit there and not say a word. i'd have to find the animal, get out of the vehicle and go take a shot. but he challenged me.

my dad challenged me in many ways. that was just one way. and i think that he would be really tickled to be able to tell the people back home at the coffee shop -- when i say coffee shop, i mean the dairy queen -- that his son is out hunting a lion. i think if he was around, he really would have got a big kick out of that. it would be better if it was a little bit up. yeah. but it will work. if you make it up a little bit. >> look at his hair. it's very important. it won't look alive if it's mangy. actually, i never kept a piece

of work ever. one day i'll probably end up buying a skin from a zoo, animal that's expired and creating my own little private museum. even if it's private, that's still something. preserve this when it's long gone, which is inevitable the way we carry on in this world. people killing animals for their own reasons. using them for completely irrational -- what do you call it, illogical reasons like medicine, doesn't work. it's just a fantasy. and besides that, the displacing of their natural habitat, they've got nowhere else to go. they come into conflict with people. they always come second. so there's that, too. animals will end up one day behind cages like we have in

zoos but on a larger scale or just fantasies that people talk about one day there was these animals. this might do justice to them at least, or at least that's what i aim for. because if they do become extinct one day, there's something to show the world what they look like. ♪ >> i really feel as if they know that they're in danger.

they know that they're not equipped to avoid extinction. >> it is humans that have messed up their lives. we are to blame. and it makes me understand that i cannot give up. ♪ why should we save any species from extinction?

it's almost like why should we breed? it's because it's us. surely we want our world to survive. we want our world to be a better pla place. [ gunshot ] >> oh, my.

>> it's been shot. lay down some sticks, didn't you?

not sure that was a good idea. you don't want those to get hold of you, i can promise you that. those teeth are just absolutely magnificent. look at that red and black. black on his ears. green eyes. and he is an old, old male.

really a one of a kind. i made a decision several months ago that i was coming to hunt lion, and this is my trophy. there's not any bureaucrat that can take it away from me. okay. martin, can we set him up to take some pictures?

i went looking for the dream of africa. i woke up in tanzania. ♪