let's just be real quiet because there is a lot of wind today. >> pick one. >> are you ready to shoot a big one? >> yeah. >> well, we're going try. >> deer out there? >> yeah, there is deer everywhere. >> do you thank you i can shoot that one? >> you have to be able to page him. you have to be able to tell how old he is before we make that decision. >> she is going to walk up through. she is curious.

there. >> yeah, a good one. okay. just get comfortable and get ready. take your time. and aim just to the right leg of the feeder, okay? you can wait if you want, but that's a shelter shot right there. >> you put him down, son. what's that spike? >> oh, he is getting up, dad? >> he's not going anywhere, don't worry. >> you shot the doe. >> okay, let's go. >> yes. >> see your hands shaking? all right. let's go.

good job, buddy. look at the horns on this guy. hoo, look at that. that's a textbook shot, jasper. hold this gun like this. how's that? >> that's good. >> head up like this, okay? >> because if it's young, it doesn't look right. >> let's try that. oh, that's what we want. up there. smile. first trophy buck. go like this. smile. we're done. okay. >> as they say, that's history. no more doe and spike culling for you. you're on to the big trophies.

>> one, two, three.

one, two, three! deeper inside. >> make sure the breathing is good. level. >> the id. >> the brush. >> yeah. >> better run this one inside there. >> the operation goes very quickly. it's painless.

probably less danger than a human being having its wisdom tooth out. he will be back with his friends in minutes. it will take about two years before he goes through the same procedure again, and we know that the poachers prefer rhinos with longhorn and pointed horns. every two years to save his life, i think if he had an opinion to give to you, he would say i'm very happy to sacrifice my horn in order to save my life. there he is, already walking normally. he looks fine.

♪ >> i truly believe that i have the recipe to save the rhino from extinction. keep the rhinos alive and breeding more and more. i will give you a challenge. give me one animal that's gone extinct while farmers were breeding it and making money out of it there is not one, not one. ♪ ♪

>> for lamb. that's what we do. we raise babies. we feed them. we keep the predators out of them. and we try to breed good genetics and try to raise the next generation. all right. i've got you. i've got your friend. your little brother. let's go. so those lambs will be three months old when they're weaned, and they'll go to a small packer in central texas, and that lamb will be harvested and typically will go into your high-end grocery chains and then to a few specialty restaurants. >> i think we have a problem with people thinking all animals are pets. i don't think you can explain that to people. if you don't explain to people that you raise a chicken to kill a chicken to eat a chicken, if

you can't explain that, it's an infantile frame of mind that i don't know how to get in their mind. all i can tell them is i love raising these animals. i love those lambs. even the ones that are going to be somebody's lamb chops this summer for july 4th. but that's what they're for. they're not for anything else. >> pull it, to the side. scott, scott, scott.

>> keep it on the grass. [ growling ] >> you are closing his nose. he must breathe. you can't put your hand there. let me close your nose also. okay, thank you, guys.

there is a big industry in our country, not just the crocodiles. the lion, the saber, the buffalo. everything is breed for purpose to date. so sure, some of them will be hunted. we are as humans going to eat it. we're going to use the skins. and that's the cycle of life. john, john! john. hello? yes. yes.

>> slowly, slowly, slowly. they are still wild animals even if they're kept in captivity like this, they will kill you in an instant and eat you up. once it's closed up, you load it on and he is ready for transport to his next destination. ♪

>> if you don't come to vegas, i think your business eventually won't make it. this is the place to come. and everyone tries to be better than the next person. that's breeding lions or buffalo or sable. it's their passion to have wild game and be able to breed them and make sure you get the quality and genetics and all that. you're actually proud of it. >> the international show is the largest hunting convention in the planet. we have 2,000 booths that are out there on the floor. we'll probably run 20,000 different folks here from all over the world, and you'll be able to see anything that you want in terms of hunting, hunting support, and conservation.

>> big cats -- >> i know that a lot of people are confuse how'd hunting and conservation go together. >> hunt south africa on a ten-day plains scape. >> about two hours ago there was an auction item that was an elephant hunt. >> 22,5, let's go. come on, blow them out of the water. 22,5. >> and that elephant hunt sold for about $50,000. and that money will all go back into conservation. >> sold, right there, $18,000. 18. >> and $29,000. >> i don't why, my little granddaughter says. i don't know why my grandma wants to shoot a zebra. i have to face my granddaughter because i'm going to go shoot a

zebra. and crocodiles are really mean. so i don't feel bad about shooting one of those. besides, i want a pair of boots, and a purse and a wallet and a belt. >> you can not only pick the species you want, but you can pick the actual animal you want. so you can see if you want a male or a female, older, younger, color, type of fur. you can just pick whatever animal you want from the menu that they offer you. see the price and book the kill. >> the safari club convention is the ultimate meat market for exotic species. and one of the prime attraction series to get a big five grand slam. and so you shoot one of each of the following species. buffalo, which would cost you about $8,000, $9,000. leopards for about $20,000. elephants for $45,000. lions for $50,000. and the most expensive because

its rarest, the rhino for $350,000. there is all this sort of stuff that encourages this collecting, this obsessiveness for more and more and more. and the status is applied to the individual hunter who achieves those ends. >> i happened to be at safari club and they were discussing fish and wildlife and all the bans they kept instituting. and there was rumor they wanted to put lions on the threatened list and further regulate their take. i decided at the moment if the big five was my goal, i had to step my plans up drastically. [ gunshot ] >> hunter's remorse. it's not been something i've experienced recently. but as a child, i certainly remember it. >> thank you for flying.

>> when i was little boy, i remember i had a bb gun. i can vividly remember my mother telling me you can go shoot birds, but don't shoot a redb d redbird. what did i do? i went and shot a redbird. and i can still remember holding that bird in my hands and looking at its beak and seeing how beautiful it was and how it was made. right there in that moment, i realized that there is no way i could have loved that better any more, even though it was dead. and i think a lot of us as trophy hunters feel the same way. we just -- we just want that experience to go and hunt that animal one time. we really just want one. simon and garfunkel ] bees! bees!

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what's wrong, my baby? [ phone ringing ] >> yeah, johnny?

>> it's not a good morning again this morning. >> oh, [ bleep ]. now what? >> it's a day -- >> an adult rhino? >> yeah. >> has she got a cough, johnny? >> yeah, she's got a big 2 tweer2-year-old calf. >> it never stop, does it? >> yeah. . >> heartbreaking. poor calf. doesn't know what to do with itself.

[ crying ] >> the goal of this farm and myself is to breed 200 rhinos a year. i have lost quite a few of my breeding stock. disease will always be a factor. unfortunately, so will poaching. the odds are stacked against them. and i'm always for the underdog. but more to the point i got to know them. and they are the last animal in

the world that deserves the persecution. they don't deserve it. they are the nicest, most user friendly animal that wants to stay this side of extinction. >> they definitely are the most magical creatures. i can sit and watch them for hours and hours and hours. and they're ancient. they don't look like they belong in today's life. yet they're still here. i'm hoping that people get a whiff of cases like this, what we're trying to do here, that more of them will start opening their own breeding operations so hopefully together we can revive the numbers. before we destroy another species because of mankind.

>> almost every other wild animal has to be killed to get what people want. whether that is horn, skin, meat, rhino is the only exception. and that's why i concentrate on rhinos. because you don't have to hunt them. you don't have to kill them. in fact, you shouldn't. because they're growing gold for you. the rhino horn belief has been around for millions of years. unfortunately, more people believe in rhino horns than there are christians on this earth. so it's very difficult to tell 600 million christians or whatever that god doesn't exist. by the same token, you're not going to tell people rhino horn doesn't work.

>> this one weighs about 4 kilos. in vietnam on the black market, the retail value of this one would be about a quarter million. it's more expensive than gold or heroin by weight. >> the illogical part of it is i have four ton of rhino horn in expensive security. which very conservatively i could get $16 million. but we're not allowed to sell it. when i started this project, it was legal to sell rhino horn in south africa. in 2009, our government put a moratorium on the trade in rhino horn. but since the ban, poaching has skyrocketed.

the very crook who now will kill a rhino and sell it illegally, if he could sell a horn legally, he will never kill a rhino whom. would kill a hen that lays the golden egg?

>> this is one of the last destinations in probably africa where there is no fences. it's absolutely open. you have to work for your trophy. we believe here that if you want to hunt, it's all in the food. it's walk and stalk. it's giving also the animal a chance. so for us, the three things is if he hears you, he smells you, or if he sees you, it's game over. >> the buildup to pulling that trigger in my case started 18 months ago. so it's a long build-up to that point. preparation, planning, buying plane tickets, paying a deposit on safari. talking with your ph about the plans, how are we going to hunt them?

all this stalking, planning. and then finding that the animal is coming. and that animal is there. and then you pull the trigger. and then boom, you got him. and then all of that anticipation changes into a different emotion of joy and relief and excitement and anticipation. because you want to go over to him and see how -- what does he look like? what does he feel like? what does he -- where did he fall?

>> look at this one. no, no, no. that's a young bull. let's go back. let's go. let's go, let's go. >> i think it's too dangerous. too many. and too close. >> all the ones i saw had big tusks. >> but the female. it's all female.

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for the better part of two centuries now, you've had this hunting culture, first in britain and now in america that it's somehow rugged and exciting to be out in the wilderness and hunting. and teddy roosevelt bought into is that when he hunted thousands of animals, something like 5,000 mammals and started to record all these kills. the hunters' accounts of what they're doing makes me sick to my stomach sometimes about finding this amazing bull elephant and putting a bullet in the animals head. and that gives them a rush of excitement. now they cloak that in money, conservation, helping people. so yeah, roosevelt is declaring all these parks national parks and protecting wilderness. but he is also killing thousands of animals at the same time

because he wanted to be able to do that hunting. he wanted to be able to consume those wild animals. the hunting industry is trying to convince people that the way it was in roosevelt's time is the way it still is today. >> a hunter was somebody who was willing to go out and spend three weeks walking around on foot, tracking an elephant, tracking a lion to shoot it and take home the trophy. there was a challenge. there was a sense of sport. but what has happened in the last 10 or 15 years has been a growing segment of the hunting demographic which we refer to as the shooters. and the shooters may have to spend as much money as it takes to get a three-week permit. but if they can kill everything in the first two days, they'll do it and fly home. it's that mentality that really fed the birth of the canned hunting industry.

basically, you go shopping at some import/export place, and you've got your rug. you've got your mantle piece. but it's not sport. it's just killing. [ gunshot ] [ gunshot ] >> shit, i'm out of bullets. >> piece of shit. easy now. >> that is one big ass crocodile. >> i tell you, worth every penny of it as long as we can fetch it out. >> something is coming out there. >> oh, look.

>> that's -- oh, my gosh. that's not yours. that yours? >> i don't know. >> i don't know. >> no. but i want to shoot it right now. i want to have two. >> that can't be yours swimming like that. that's impossible. >> i don't know what that is. it keeps turning. >> i'm not sure. >> is that the one? >> i'll shoot it with this one. put my beer down and i drop it. >> here. >> what's this? >> their blood. >> blood? >> oh, the last crocodile. >> it's just waiting for us to get close. oh, it's moving.

>> just shoot in the brain. [ gunshot ] >> god. >> oh, yeah, mother. [ laughter ] >> now it's destroyed. >> they'll fix it. they'll fix it. that's what taxidermists do. >> now we're done for the day. it's party time, boy. >> how much for that sucker? >> that's a lion, very high. >> 35,000? how much for cecil. >> cecil is expensive, like

50,000. >> i was in the cattle industry for 10, 12 years. and because we had a lot of game in the area, i had some other outfit those years which always contact me and please, can i bring a client over who would like to come and hunt. and i say fine, meet the clients. and then i start meeting overseas clients. and it looked to me like it can become a good business. so what we offer our clients is there is a lodge. there is a jacuzzi and a hunting area. you can drive around, try and spot the animals. you get off and you try to get the client up to a point where he can have a clear, good shot at the animal. [ gunshot ] >> good shot. >> good shot, buddy. >> normally in the middle of the day, when it's really hot, we bring the clients in to the

blind area where they can sit down for the rest of the afternoon. so it's making really comfortable. the client can stand straight up and be able to shoot through that slot over there. it's maybe like 25 yards. we will put some feeders out as well so the animals can only come into certain areas where there is water for drinking. then we clear out around all these water points where the blinds are. because you would lick to see the animals when they come in. and that makes it exciting hunt. and it makes it a natural environment, which is very important. but if you kill, you're just wasting petrol. there is no focus. you got that. you should get a guide who kills things. sorry. just keep in mind, we don't feed no americans if they don't shoot something. >> i would love to have a giraffe. i probably would shoot it myself too.

he says it's too expensive and we don't have room for it in our house. i will find room for it in our house. even if i probably would have to build on to the trophy room, which i don't want to. >> a beautiful animal. i got one of those last year. i still have a warthog and a baboon and a bush buck, a bush pig, a caracal. the list is still pretty big. we have the rest of this day and two more days to hunt. so we'll try to do our most to get the most on the list. but it's not as easy. it seems like once we're going for them, they're real skittish.

>> animals get the feeling and get used to our bush environment. and eventually we got the experience to allow them to go after the big five. >> beautiful. >> one, two. >> yes. >> now i'm happy she got a second one. and oil is up $2. >> oil is up. >> oil is up $2. let's add another one to the list. let's add that bitch to the list. >> and 1 million here. 500,000.

>> 1.2 now. 1. >> now 173. >> every outfitter a lot of clients or run a good hunting business, you kind of shoot out your animals. so you have to buy in new blood. the breeding is very important. because that's where the money is. the money is in the breeding. >> we've had buffalo go for between $4 million and $5 million u.s. dollars. and also sable bulls go for $4 million and $5 million. it's good for the industry. a very big demand and a good market. >> $206,000 and done. >> you have the capitalist

system, the profit motive making money off wildlife. so it's a remarkable development. but in south africa, they went through an incredible period of removing nature from their countryside in the 1800s. and they literally removed everything. it's only been in the last 20 to 25 years that there has been this recognition that they could take private land and private owners themselves could profit by restoring these areas. now until recently, this land was mostly used for livestock. but a lot of people decided, well, we could get more revenue if we do game ranching. you'd actually get much more money than raising cows. in this model, they're filling the market by first going rarer species like sable or roan that are still attractive for hunters. and you can also start breeding your buffaloes.

they have abnormally huge horns. and then as the market saturates, people are thinking, well, i've got all this land. and we could bring back big five. now you actually have got a restored ecosystem. and so this has been a success story there are far more lions in south africa now than there were 100 years ago. there is far more predators in general in south africa than there were 100 years ago. initially mate have been because this would have involved the slaughter of some animals. but then you could go towards a more naturalistic thing that would not have happened otherwise. if we're only going to restrict what we view as dmomesticated animals to those species that have been domesticated hundreds of thousands of years ago, then we're going to see a lot of these species go away.

and thing are a few species like rhino that there should be rhino farms. and one needs to recognize that what they've achieved in south africa should not be lost. >> this was a breeding buffalo bull. this buffalo bull was bought for millions. and eventually he was done breeding. and we had to put him out there for hunting. so we got the canadian client came over, and he was really happy to harvest such a beautiful trophy. so nothing goes for waste, nothing. even that animal. and we hope we will have like 50 or 70 babies of him running around. but eventually one day he's going to be honored to put him

up on the trophy room where someone can go walk in and say you know what? that was a top breeder and he is still honored today as you look at him and see a great trophy. he makes a real great trophy. >> do you ever get attached to a lion that it's hard to release it for a hunt? there some animal like that that oh, this one. >> all animals. it doesn't matter what animal it is. if you love animals, you'll get attached to them. you'll go out there every day. you see this animal. you're feeding him. the buffalo, your sable, of course. but there will be a time when you have to let go. cut. that is true.

you know you will be playing with them and they become like a friend.

okay. [ gunshot ] >> yeah! >> congratulations. >> got him running away. >> he's done.

[ animal moaning ] have you come to the site? >> where? >> to the chase. >> yeah. [ gunfire ]

>> it's bent a little bit back. almost finished. >> cigarette.

>> doesn't have the trophy quality of a big elephant. it will never grow big. so, yeah. ♪

♪ ♪

>> this is an elephant we have to hunt for the community as part of the quota.

they get some animals that they can harvest for meat. 15 years ago, people poached animals because they want meat and there was no value to the animal for them. now they know, they must protect the wildlife. it's not only the meat, it's this actually money coming back into their pockets. ♪

♪

>> it's a recurring problem then. somebody will get eaten. it's just a matter of time. maybe it's better people cry about a dead lion than we cry about a dead person.

it's better that way. >> we go to extreme lengths for keep animals in being shot on the problem animal control program. probably 95% of the time, we can get the animals out of the communities and get them back into where they belong and try to keep the two separate, because they don't mix well. people are killed every year by elephant and hippo and crocodile and lion. part of life. part of liar here any way, certainly. lions come in to absolutely destroy a guy's livelihood and he doesn't have a way to sustain his future. maybe he ends up in the bush putting up wild snares and poaching.

at the end of the day, we are fighting a poaching world. >> we try to teach people the importance of animals. the problem is people, they are suffering. so they are forced now to get into poaching to make a living. >> stay. stay. be good boy. be good boy. stay. >> i don't know if i want to see it. >> david, you don't. let me tell you, you definitely don't. that one over there was only 14 months old.

i think two of them were pregnant and then another cow with a young calf was also wounded. she still has a bullet in her brisket. whether that will prove fatal or not, we don't know. [ bleep ] sick. i can give you 10, 12, even 13 calfs. that is all wiped out in one moment. >> there were locals involved.

>> i'm suspicious about the camp master. >> the rhinos know not to stand in the middle of them quietly and then maybe you have two guys, one banging that side, one banging this side. that's how i pictured it in my nightmare. >> but what i was saying is, we are going to have a hard time convincing the people, you know. >> yes. i know that better than any of you. i'm there. i'm in the fight, all day and every day.

so i know that i'm not pro, i'm anti. both of those approaches have mirrored in cases and nightmare. because the motives behind the commercial acts are seldom conservation based. they are profit based, and they sell it to the public on the basis of it pays. >> i don't have misery for your cause. not at all. >> for the rhinos, not for my cause. >> try and keep them alive. that's all i'm [ bleep ] asking everybody. let me tell you something, if you are anti-trade, then you are anti-legal trade. then there's two things i want you to think about. firstly, you are keeping the money away from me, which i need to protect my rhino. secondly, if you are anti-legal

trade, by implication to me, you are pro-illegal trade, and those are the poachers. >> the fact of the matter is, -- >> the fact of the matter is, if there's not legalization, in ten years time, you won't see one rhino here. they'll all be dead or gone. that's the fact of the matter.

>> if the husband had been going into the bush and shooting elephants over the last ten years, would have accounted for a couple thousand elephant at least. so, yeah, they're bad guys.

done a lot of bad things. >> they are tired of this

nonsense. this system of poaching, it's better to hear the straight story. >> >> the future in the bush, there is no future. otherwise, you can die, leaving your family behind or you are jailed. and you are a young guy with plenty of future at your side. i know if we stay like this we will end up in some way changing. that's not going forward. we are fighting this war for this community and another community further way. these elephants are worth a lot

of money, so they will go to all lengths to get what they want. >> yeah. >> you need to look in the mirror every morning. i make a point of it. i look in the mirror, you got to make sure you don't cross the bounds that we can't lose our humanity for humanity. i think it's important. it gets harsh, and we do things sometimes, you saw it, that scare people. but we have to do what we have to keep this fight going. it's a war to save the elephant from extinction. happy holidays from sprint. where you get the best price for unlimited. (vo) switch and get four lines of unlimited for $25 per month per line with the fifth line free. that's 50% off verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and this holiday season get 50% off samsung's newest phones. for people with hearing loss, sprint. works for me. visit sprintrelay.com.

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in less than a year, 20. >> we don't have a file of the previous security company. i already have a suspicion that some of them were involved in the rhino poaching. one of the people in that team was the second in command, a chap by the name of [ bleep ].

that is after the time he was here. i have a very reliable report from the police that [ bleep ] was in on the poaching. that is emotionally the worst part of this was, your -- you're the friends of the rhino, and you feel you can't trust anybody. >> i won't be able to guarantee zero losses on this property. i can say to you most of those incidents are met as a direct result of having the wrong people on site with not the right equipment, not the right training, not being highly motivated. >> we will not change the policy completely to elite reaction un unit. i would like to upset them, for

them to say no, no, no, you don't want to go to that place. >> while a lot of politicians are praying for peace, we are praying for war. more conflict is probably needed in this arena to sort out the problem. >> it's all very expensive. radar is between 10 and 20 million. this chopper here is costing me nearly a million a month. then there's the underground man and the bloody information man, and, and, and. >> would that have come through as an alarm if you put it on top of the fence? >> i mean, why did they come in here?

they walked from that bottom row there all the way up here into this camp to come poach these. why? >> you feel very helpless, you know. >> good morning, darling. this one is four months old. >> i don't think anybody ever thought any private person would have 1,300 rhinos and next year we're going to have 200 more maybe.

but i suppose it's an addiction, i would think. >> where do you think it's going to stop? >> when he kicks the bucket, i guess. then hopefully one of his sons will carry on. he won't stop before he's 6-foot under. >> my dream is to carry on what my dads do, to carry on the rhino breeding and fortunately, i have the irony, i wouldn't breed rhino, because it's too expensive and it's very high risk. i mean, we've had death threats here at the house, if i seen what he's gone through in sort of the last 15 years, his financial position has gotten gradually worse and worse the

more rhino he's acquired. >> i have invested $50 million in this project for virtually no return. >> this project will come to an end unless it is making money. i can go on selling my assets, but it is not sustainable in the long run. >> i used to have six resorts. i used to have over 3,000 beds. all the resorts have been and this is the last one that will be sold on auction. [ auctioneer calling ]

>> so after taking various advice, i believe i don't have any option but to take the government to court to lift the moratorium. if i don't, i will run out of money and my rhinos will be killed by poachers. simon and garfunkel ] [ beep ] the volkswagen atlas. with available pedestrian monitoring.

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well, unfortunately, this is my birthday present, i guess, they've listed the lions as threatened as another species as endangered. so effectively lion hunting is over. now when this all goes into effect, i don't know. we're just a few months out, so maybe we're okay. maybe we're not. maybe we have to go to a new country. maybe the whole trip is ruined. i don't know. i think the thing that makes me

the maddest is this service director dan ash says and i quote, that it's a privilege, not a right, for us to bring back these trophies from other countries. you know, i don't think he was elected by anybody. i think he's an appointed bureaucrat and he has no right to tell me what my rights are and what a privilege of being a u.s. citizen is. i'm going to be the first hunter in there for the hunting season, and we planned it that way. i'm going the earliest i can this coming year. it might not be early enough. >> just once in a while an individual animal can capture the public imagination and change public attitudes. >> world wide outrage over the death of sesil the lion, killed at the hands of an american dentist. >> sesil's death created a ground swell of public opinion into real action.

>> i heat hamburgers. that was not a hunt. that was a murder. >> and this guy might have quite a collection of animal heads. here he is posing next to a bear he shot. he killed like half of noah's ark. >> killing a lion for sport. not in the era of instagram and facebook and a generation brought up to relate to simba. >> we'll always be together, right? >> no, we won't, i'll be murdered by a dentist from minnesota. see that constellation, the one that looks like a white guy in his 50s with a fake smile? >> you hunted cecil the lion like a cowardly bitch. >> dennis palmer, welcome to the court of public opinion. >> i'm going to get really angry. >> what would happen if you were being hunted? >> i will never forget what you did. >> in the wake of public outrage over the killing of cecil the lion, the three largest u.s. airlines are instituting bans on carrying trophies as freight.

>> someone is paying for this to function. someone is providing the clothing, the scopes, the outdoor gear, and it makes the corporate players think very carefully how closely they wish to be associated with certain practices. and i think that that will change and it will change fast, and people will say huh-uh, don't want to be part of this. >> we will shame these people. we will ostracize these people. it's not just lions.

we've got to say enough is enough. we won't allow that to happen. we won't allow south africa -- >> welcome. i'm here tonight to moderate a debate between two very prominent conservationists. will travers of the born free foundation, and mr. john hune. >> i'm very keen to hear what he's going to say. he has far more experience than i am in wooing the public. don't forgot that. he woos the public. that's how they make money. that's why he's so good at it. >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. i'm a retired property developer, and now custodian of 1,403 rhinos. if i can sell the horns, my 1,400 will become 2,000, 3,000

and 10,000. ky not see what is wrong with that when my rhinos are happy alive. come and see them where they are. i have the recipe. but it takes a lot of money. i have a way to raise the money without going begging all over the world. all i need is for it to be legal. >> i don't think there is any legitimate case of you having these animals on private areas of land, where you can harvest them, profit from them. where you can put them into the international market where it can lead to more destruction. [ applause ] >> excuse me, sir, i don't think you understand africa. you simply don't understand africa. >> how many consumers can you supply from your rhinos? >> i trim my horns every two years, so i can produce with my current rhinos 1 ton of horn a

year. >> what about the rest of the population? >> they must do the same. that's why i want to give them to the communities. i want to teach the communities. >> indian rhino, won't you flood your market? >> you want me to give up and let my rhino all die? >> what about the global rhino? >> let the global rhino do the same thing. >> you have to speak for all rhino, not just yours. >> if it pays it stays principle, the commodity of wild life, elephants will stay if we can sell their ivory, lions can stay if the wealthy elite can shoot for fun and rhinos will be similar to mr. hume, if their horns can be sold to remote buyers. what a vision of nature that could be, contained, confined, commercialized and counterfeit. >> south africa is yet to decide in a push to end the global end

on buying and selling rhino horns to open up the $2 billion market and determine the fate of the critically endangered species. >> when we assess the trade, what the trade is doing the international trade -- >> the moratorium is one of the seasons why poaching escalates. >> we expect that poaching is one of the factors we need to consider, but the department and none of its reports accept the way to teal with poaching immediately mow is by lifting the moratorium. >> so the department accepts that the moratorium encourages poaching? >> no, my lord. the department does not accept that. there are a number of factors that contribute to poaching.

the report declines that the moratorium is not the only one. >> and if we do not do that now, the escalation of poaching continues. >> no, my lord. the reason why there's continued poaching are complicated, and that is the department's version. >> i've been breeding rhinos for a very long time, and all of a sudden i'm very poor. >> there's a hunting and eco market to help them capitalize their efforts. >> if

>> consider for a moment the entire world, about the preservation of this species. it's on the brink of extinction virtually. we say we can't afford to defray the cost. the minister says you can have them hunted. it is actually quite sad that the environmental minister can report to an allegation in the midst of all people trying to preserve the species, to an allegation that you can hunt

them. if there are were only ten in the world and mr. hume had those ten, would the minister have said, hunt them, shoot them? we'll be down to one and put that in the museum. >> they like to talk about the numbers and talk about conservation. they're just brainwashing the fact that they enjoy killing. that's psychopathic behavior. we're seeing a lot of progress for animals. the change is coming. we're going to put an end to this. >> i'm actually a conservation hunter. we don't hunt any endangered species. >> we're against all hunting, no matter what. >> no matter the results? >> all hunting. >> from a conservationist point of view, the money that comes in

is what's keeping them there. >> you're breeding corruption. >> we're going to go to the school -- >> if you want to build a school, i'm shake your hand and build it with you. why do you have to shoot an animal to build it? >> murder is murder. >> no, it's not murder if it's an animal. did you murder a chicken that you had for lunch? >> i don't eat meat, sweet heart. i'm vegan. i have regard for all species and all living, breathing things. >> shame on you! coward! >> it's human nature to be empathetic with the individual. so the animal rights organizations, that's their thinking is the individual.

as if that's somehow going to protect the whole ecosystem, and it's not. so they think in terms of bambi or fifi, because we send out photographs of fifi to our donors and that's great, okay? but fifi might be in the right place and she's in the most protected area and you're ignoring around the periphery, and people arefeldi inbringing r hive stock and clearing forests right next to fifi. they're ignoring the fact that local people are being killed by lions, trampled by elephants, losing their crops, that they do not share their value system. if you cannot empathize with the local people, then you're not going to be at all successful in protecting them in the long-term. on the other hand, you have the hunters who are convinced that

where they operate, they're the last bastion of support to protect these areas. but to an animal welfare organization, no. no animal must die. the reality of hunting is that, yes, there are a few places where hunting does make a difference. but in many areas, the economics don't add up. they're not generating enough money. the land is being lost, especially in the most corrupt countries. we've seen that happen over and over in many parts of africa, where they go out and say everything is fine. no, it's not fine. things are declining. how do you win at business?

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you know what's not awesome? gig-speed internet. when only certain people can get it. let's fix that.

let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids, and these guys, him, ah. oh hello. that lady, these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. what we do is run the camp and kind of manage the underground management of the anti-poaching in the area, and we get a daily rate when foreign hunters come in to hunt here, which really subsidizes the money that i have to run my anti-poaching.

you can imagine a little dust and dirt and rain and firearms take a bit of a hammering. that's why we like this ak action. good old ak, built in israel. can't really go wrong with it. >> we are fighting to save this for the community while people kill it. it's, it really is pretty weird, we're fighting to save something so somebody else can kill it. it just comes back to control, if -- ethics, morals, sustainability. you can assimilate the two. the poachers and the commercial hunters. but the difference is, the

poachers, they shoot anything for their teeth. literally anything. and they will shoot every last one that there is because there's a commercial driven desire for these teeth. on the hunting side, if done correctly, when there's a very carefully measured off take,ky live with that, killing every last animal, no, can't live with that, won't do that. that's just wrong. >> you load it up? >> no. >> here load up. you never know what can bump here. >> i'm not really after a buffalo. we're going to need bait, so we got three more places to bait. it's your call. >> how much am i paying for the hippo for pate?

>> $750. >> how much for the buffalo? >> 5. >> okay. [ gunfire ] ♪ >> this is one of now probably 17 we've put up so far for phillip. hippo, zebra, impala. they're only lasting two or three days. so hopefully we'll have a bit of luck. >> the bible says he gave man

dominion over all the animals, and that comes with a responsibility. but it also means it's a right to use. it's a big part of appreciating god's creation. some people think how can you shoot god's creation? that's a totally false statement and point of view. god said we have dominion over the animaling, so we can do what we choose. that's a very powerful statement. that's in the bible. [ gunfire ] >> i think it does make it more special for me as a believer, know that god placed them there. when i put my hand on that lion, i can promise you, at that moment, anybody that believes in evolution is a complete fool. i just don't understand how people can't understand that god breathes that animal into existence.

>> there he is. it's a big lion. yes. >> he's got a big head. >> wow.

>> the thought came to mind as i was coming here and beginning to feel the emotion and the anticipation of this big hunt. i've been a hunter my whole life. they say i fell out of the hunting vehicle when i was 2 or 3 years old and landed on my head. maybe that's what's wrong with me sometimes. and i lost my dad a few years ago. and he was a hunter. at the time, i was a little angry with him, the way he would treat me, that he would do funny things to me to make me learn to hunt. we'd be in a pickup, and whether it was a rabbit or a deer, summer or winter, we'd be driving along and he'd see some game. and all he'd do is turn the engine off and sit there and not say a word. i'd have to find the animal, get out of the vehicle and go take a shot. but he challenged me. my dad challenged me in many ways. that was just one way.

and i think that he would be really tickled to be able to tell the people back home at the coffee shop -- when i say coffee shop, i mean the dairy queen -- that his son is out hunting a lion. i think if he was around, he really would have got a big kick out of that. it would be better if it was a little bit up. yeah. but it will work. if you make it up a little bit. >> look at his hair. you wouldn't believe it, but hair patterns are very important. it's not going to look alive if it looks mangy. actually, i never kept a piece of work ever. one day i'll probably end up

buying a skin from a zoo, animal that's expired and creating my own little private museum. even if it's private, that's still something. preserve this when it's long gone, which is inevitable the way we carry on in this world. people killing animals for their own reasons. poaching. using them for completely irrational -- what do you call it, illogical reasons like medicine, doesn't work. it's just a fantasy. and besides that, the displacing of their natural habitat, they've got nowhere else to go. they come into conflict with people. they always come second. so there's that, too. animals will end up one day behind cages like we have in zoos but on a larger scale or just fantasies that people talk about one day there was these animals.

this might do justice to them at least, or at least that's what i aim for. because if they do become extinct one day, there's something to show the world what they look like. ♪ ♪ >> i really feel as if they know that they're in danger. they know that they're not equipped to avoid extinction.

>> it is humans that have messed up their lives. we are to blame. and it makes me understand that i cannot give up. ♪ why should we save any species from extinction? it's almost like why should we breed?

it's because it's us. surely we want our world to survive. we want our world to be a better place. [ gunshot ] >> oh, my. >> fantastic, buddy. excellent shot.

>> my gosh. lay down some sticks, didn't he? not sure that was a good idea.

you don't want those to get hold of you, i can promise you that. those teeth are just absolutely magnificent. look at that red and black. black on his ears. green eyes. and he is an old, old male. really a one of a kind.

i made a decision several months ago that i was coming to hunt lion, and this is my trophy. there's not any bureaucrat that can take it away from me. okay. martin, can we set him up to take some pictures?

no, i'm not a racist. i am the least racist president you've ever interviewed. >> yep, you heard that right. this is what americans are waking up to on the day they celebrate dr. martin luther king jr., the leader of the civil rights movement. on the korean peninsula. a second meeting between north and south korean officials. we'll have the latest live from seoul for you. also coming up in the show, are you addicted to your cell phone? one of the creators behind the iphone says the technology can be like a drug. >> i'm sorry, did you say something? just kidding. okay, ye