i'm sure a lot of people will be doing a lessons learned critique, as they should. >> just to be clear, the d.o.d., pentagon, you're not waiting for hawaii to tell you whether or not there's an incoming missile. the federal government would have had their own basis for analysis. >> exactly. that, again, is not done at the state level. in a military context and within the department of defense, as you indicate, this is the primary responsibility of northern command to make a characterization. is it an attack and what is the nature of the attack. >> i want to ask you something else. you're in the intelligence business for so long. what is your take on where we are in terms of credibility for truth telling in government. look, there were statements

coming out about whether you are truth. what we are dealing with right now about what word the president used in his comparison of brown people to white people, what else was he talking about when he said we don't want people from countries like this. we want people from norway. a decorated war veteran senator going from i don't recall to what he said to he definitely didn't say what is being reported. where are we in terms of the value of truth? >> you know, i've certainly had my ups and downs here and hraerpbtd listens. what to me is of critical importance of being credible and telling the truth, being straight as often as you can. when you screw up, acknowledge you made a mistake.

this administration doesn't do that very much. it is regrettable. at times it will raise a credibility issue not only in this country but importantly, the rest of the world. >> yeah. it is i wish you to live in interesting times. what kind of interesting is never made clear. thank you, sir. >> thanks, chris. let's get going in the next hour. good morning. welcome to our "new day". this is martin luther king day. we have stark contrast to talk about, especially on a day like this. alisyn is off. one and only vikings fan, poppy harlow, joins us. up first, president trump declaring he is not a racist. once again, he said he is the least racist people that these journal issists ever would have interviewed. he has a credibility problem.

his real problem is he expressed a preference. why do we have to have people like these brown people, right, because that's what he was talk about, to people from norway and that he preferred. what's the difference? there is a color difference. you have a sickening coverup. lawmakers in the oval office that insist that the president didn't say what is being reported. the white house, white house staff had a chance to walk it back. they didn't walk it back. don't be distracted. no one denies the comparison that i told you about. that is the real problem. >> the president is creating more of his own trouble. and it puts the prospects of a daca deal in skwreptd. some are threatening to vote against the deal if it does not include protections for hundreds of thousands of d.r.e.a.m.ers. the president doesn't think democrats even want to make a deal. this all comes the week a government shutdown looms. the deadline to pass a funding deal to keep the lights on and

doors open. at work for you the tax payer is this friday. good morning, kaitlan. good morning. >> reporter: an extraordinary statement from the president coming on march kin luther king day where the president is denying he's a racist and denying that he made miss pair acknowledging remarks about african countries during meetings at the white house. it comes days after the white house did not deny that the president expressed these sentiments as he met with lawmakers. poppy, what's clear is there is no denying that what happened in that meeting is pitting senators against each other during what is going to turn out to be a critical week for washington. >> i'm on not a racist. >> i am the least racist person you have ever interviewed. that i can tell you. >> reporter: president trump on defense after days of outrage over his disparaging comments about immigrants from haiti and

some african nations. >> did you see what various senators in the raofpl said about my comments? they weren't made >> reporter: lawmakers offering different accounts about whether mr. trump referred to these countries as shitholes. >> he said these hate-filled things, and he said them repeat repeatedly. >> reporter: the lone democrat, dick durbin, said he the president did use the vulgar characteration while two republicans said they did not recall the phrase before insisting sunday that it did not happen. >> he did not use that word, george. it's a gross misrepresentation. >> i didn't hear what senator durbin said repeatedly. >> reporter: senator scott saying fellow republican lindsey graham said the comments are basically accurate. >> i was in a meeting directly afterwards where those presented to the president our proposal spoke about the meeting. and they said those words were used before those words went

public. >> reporter: the bitter infighting is stalling talks over a potential immigration deal that would protect d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> you can't have an immigration compromise is everybody is out there calling the president a racist. >> reporter: the president declaring sunday morning that daca is probably dead, but later leaving the door open. >> we're ready, willing, and able to make a deal on daca, but i don't think the democrats want to make a deal. >> reporter: the stalemate raising concerns that a deal will not be reached before friday's budget deadline to avoid a government shutdown. >> i for one will not vote for government funding until we get a deal on daca. >> there shouldn't be a shortcut. >> reporter: and addressing this. >> the u.s. pacific command has detected a missile threat to hawa hawaii. a missile may impact on land or sea sa in minutes.

>> reporter: president trump suggesting that tension with north korea contributed to the chaos. >> part of it is people are on edge. maybe we will solve the problem so people won't be so on edge. olympics you know about. a lot of things can happen. >> reporter: now, the outcry over the president's remark comes at a time when republicans and democrats should be negotiating over how to keep the government open but instead they're arguing over which vulgar language the president used during that meeting in the oval office. as a reminder, chris and poppy, the government runs out of money in just four days. >> kaitlan, appreciate it. let's bring in some guests. wes lowry and real clear politics associate editor and columnist a.b. stoddard. what do you make of the house versus whohole controversy.

the republicans coming to the president's defense. nobody denies the comparison he drew saying why do we need people from haiti and africa who i am terming brown people. i know we just met with the prime minister of norway, but he brought up that contrast. it seemed obvious why. nobody denies that comparison. what is this all about? >> if you look back at the last couple of days starting thursday night, this unbelievable scare in hawaii and two u.s. senators accusing another of lying. imagine the perspective of friends and foe all around the world hraorlooking at the unite states in the last 72 hours the accusations by senator cotton and purdue that senator durbin is lying when there is a difference between just s-house and s-hole is really extraordinary. there are so many ways they

could try to pro tract the president and say this did not go on. but he said this is a gross misrepresentation. senator cotton said he didn't hear any derogatory comments about individuals or persons. that is not the case. it is absolutely stag issering that it has gone on. this is the kind of thing senators accuse house members of doing, of treating each other this way. and the fact they would do this when senator graham told senator scott and senator flake. there are so many others that corroborated this. the white house has not denied it. >> wes, to a.b.'s point, the only black republican senator said, look, lindsey graham said, yeah, it's basically accurate. and kirsten nelson, part of the cabinet, saying i don't recall that specific phrase being used, parsing words, as a.b. points

out, which is pretty remarkable this morning to be saying that is what matters when chris elaborated is what matters, the sent is opt of it. let me ask you, wes, wise. why do you think senator purdue and cotton would go this far to protect the president on it? >> well, the senators are both allies of the president. >> okay. but to call their fellow it? senator dick durbin a liar. >> it is the depth of the partisan divide in our politics. it is pretty stunning to have sitting senators accuse their colleague and senior colleague of essentially making something up when reality, when on the record descriptions of that meeting and also, to be honest, our own basic understanding how this president speaks. it is is in his cadence. of course he said it.

this is exactly what the president would say. it is stunning to see republicans come out and completely deny this was said. now, i can see why they are trying to parse this word. they are trying to look for any colonel of truth in their denial. but i do think that it is frankly craven that you would accuse one of our co-workers of lying. someone here is lying. >> right. >> if they can't come out of a meeting and have everyone in good faith tell what was said, do we think they can crack a massive deal? >> this is once again the president getting in his own way. he created the situation. he chose to make this comparison, which nobody questions. they're parsing words because they can. they are trying to blame it on

the media because it works for them. a.b., we went to the white house when it happened. raj whatever his name is didn't back off the words. >> not a word. >> they talked to a staffer. yeah, that is what he said. lindsey graham was in the same room. contemporaneous statement to tim scott. has a lot of value in it. jeff flake said people told him this was the language, the sentiment before it even came public. dick durbin put out this statement. let's put it up for people. they're using the fact that durbin got jammed up in the past talking about what happened in the obama administration. he said now they are trying to hoist him on that. he is saying credibility is something that is built by being consistently hon efforts over time. senator durbin has it. perdue does not. ask anyone who's death with it. what does this mean for the daca deal, a.b.?

>> well, actually, of all of those accounts i found erick erickson the most compelling. he spoke with one of the people the president called to bask in the glow of the backlash, basically gauging his allies's response to this firestorm. so it's really hard to believe that it wasn't a naked base play. he knew staff was in the room. he had that last week for which i give enormous credit for something that illustrated leadership from something we haven't seen before. he said i'll take the heat. get to go a deal requires giving everyone a built of cover from their base. now the left wing of the democratic party will say that man is a racist and you can't make a deal with him. it definitely exacerbates the tkwaoeufpltd i think the court ruling gave trump a few days to play to his base. they have renewed applications for daca protection. and i think it buys him some

time and he thinks he can play this immigration hawk thing, make the base happen, respond to the criticism to levine, limbaugh and on and on and get back in his corner. i think there is a chance he gets back into the middle again. you never know what side he is on. they will do an extension this week and put this for another two weeks. the date i have seen is february 16th. it allowed time with this court ruling to let people be safe from deportation while he roars like the wall builder he once was on the campaign. >> wes, representative john lewis, obviously his history fighting for civil rights in this country will always be remembered calls the president a racist. yes. they are ideological opposites. representative mia love, first haitian in congress said i can't

defend the indefensible. the president comes out and says i am not a racist last night. where does? leave us? >> most people who aren't racists don't generally have to put out statements saying they're not a racist. somewhere you have gone wrong, right? but i think beyond that it does, it puts us in a place where it is increasingly becoming clear for some members of congress and other members, the democratic party as well as the republican party that trump is khrofg lines and lines leading otherwise reasonable people they don't have the desire to work with him. you're going to have real pressure from the democratic party. it's going to be extremely skeptical of giving this president of coming to a table with him on these issues. and a real fear that, again, it's been said about donald trump he says the quiet part out loud. here you have a case where there

has been this ideology, this belief for a long time, or this talking point that we need to pivot towards high quality immigrants. the president just comes out and says it, i want more people from norway. it bears the ugliness of these policies that belie. >> all right. wes, a.b., thank you. we appreciate it. thank you guys very much. who do senator leaves in their own ranks when it comes to what the president said or didn't say in that heated meeting? some senators's stories are changing dramatically this morning. democrat chris kuhns is is with us. the mistake that led to 38 minutes of pandemonium in paradise. the changes that could be coming after saturday is's false alarm about a missile attack in hawaii. imagine having half an hour where you think the end is coming.

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overnight he is denying using a vulgar word you have heard more than enough to describe black and brown people of these people coming to the country as immigrants. now some are changing their story dramatically. chris kuhns of delaware joins us. senator, thank you for being here on this martin luther king day, a very important day in history. both said in a skwroeuplt statement when asked if the president used that word, we do not recall. here's what they said yesterday. >> i'm telling you i dhe did no use that word. it's a gross misrepresentation. >> i didn't hear it. i know what dick durbin has said about the president's repeated statements is incorrect. >> senator david perdue and senator cotton, they're saying

senator dick durbin is lying. what do you say? >> well, poppy, on this martin luther king day, rather than get too far inside the he said, he said. i believe senator durbin and lindsey graham both of whom put out statements following their reactions with the president that demonstrated i think that we are dealing with a tale of two trumps. with a president who a week earlier has a positive, open, constructive bipartisan meeting which in he says he'll sign any reasonable deal. any deal, he said that they are able to bring back to him. and then this second meeting where he is not only close minded but says things that are offen offensive. i agree with what republican senator lindsey graham said following that meeting, that the united states is an idea not an

ethnicity. i choose to focus on the positive here. it's disappointing this dissolved into a fight of who said what at that meeting. what matters more is what we do next. it will get even harder now for us to come together and reach any sofrt an agreement on daca. we've got a federal government that shuts down this coming week, this friday if we can't come to an agreement. it is just getting harder when we have a president who, rather than tamping down our disagreements, fans them and in flames them. >> a few things on that. you say focus on the positive, focus on advancing this country not on dividing this country. your fellow democrat, representative adler, who will be on the show a little bit later, he is proposing censuring the president. he would need a majority to do that. a public reprimanding of the president for using this language. do you believe that's productive

or do you oppose that? >> the congressman is free to do whatever he wants. sadly i doubt that that motion of censure will pass in either chamber. we have a republican majority house and senate that has stood by the president. this is not the first time the president has said something that has taken us badly off track or speaks to the worst of the negative impulses and frankly won't be the last time. our challenge -- >> go ahead. >> our challenge, poppy, is to remember the spirit of martin luther king who stood up to and confronted racism and found a way to heal our country and to move it forward from its original sin, from the slavery and the racial segregation that was the very founding of our nation. that is why he is so celebrated all across our country.

one of the things i hope we can do is stop letting our president take control of our news media day in and day out with winx, nods and innuendo that are racist. frankly, we need to find a way to move forward. >> senator, on daca, as you know, some of your tpl low democrats said we will not give our vote for a funding bill to keep the government open this friday if it doesn't include a deal for d.r.e.a.m.ers, a daca agreement. are you in that camp, or on will you agree to something that keeps the government up and running without a daca deal? >> poppy, at this point, we've got a long list of things that are way overdue. this is no way to run a government. i remember back to the first days of this congress when the majority leader said we get back to what we call regular order, which means moving things without crises, cliff hangers. >> but will you?

>> some confidence to these 800,000 people, poppy. we also have to deal with unfunded hurricanes, wildfires. >> yes. >> and unresolved -- >> but as you know, some of your fellow democrats say this is your moment of leverage. >> that's right. >> if you don't grab it by the horns this time and say we will not fund the government if you have no deal for daca, d.r.e.a.m.ers, we'll lose funding because we don't have the fudeal. >> a majority of my caucus, myself included, we will not fund the government without a daca deal. the challenge is to make it clear to the american people this is not just about immigration. it's also about chip, community health centers, response to hurricanes. the republican majority and the republican president, to put a very sharp point on it, have failed to come up with a way we can fund the government and address the vital needs of states and territories, of

families and children all over this country. this isn't what folks want us to be doing in washington to have yet another cliff hanger and possibly a government shutdown. no one wants to shut the government down. i don't want to shut the government down. when the president has a meeting at the white house at his own invitation and brings together bipartisan leaders and said you go find a deal, i will sign it, anything that helps solve this daca program, and they come back with a deal and he blows up the meeting and the deal, it's hard to understand that this is anything other than intentional sabotage with a good group of senators led by lindsay graham and dick durbin to solve this longstanding problem. a crisis of the president's own creating, i'll remind you. the deadline to the d.r.e.a.m.ers, daca is an artificial one created by the president.

congress should take action to put into law previously administrative. i support our making responsible compromises to get there. that's part of what we have to do in the senate. we have other important things we also need to be moving forward on. that's the point i was trying to make. lots of issues we should not move forward without having addressed and resolved. >> all right. we'll be watching very closely this week when you are all back at work tomorrow. you have four days to get this done. senator chris kuhns, appreciate it. >> thank you. >> chris? >> great interview. the point you're making about why they are doing what they're doing. it's not often mentioned. quinnipiac poll says you have overwhelming majorities of both parties saying you have to have the d.r.e.a.m.ers. why are the democrats in such a hurry to give trump as much as they seem to have on the table right now. the president wants the wall, whatever that means. it is good to push him on that.

a congressman is pushing a bipartisan bill to protect d.r.e.a.m.ers. president trump is now sending mixed signals about whether a deal is even possible. what is that about? does he even know? next. ♪

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i'm not a racist. i'm the least racist person you have ever interviewed. that, i can tell you. >> the president once again insisting he's not a racist because once again he said something that makes people think he is. this time he is facing serious criticism after several lawmakers said he called haiti and some average an countries a vulgar term in making a comparison saying why do we have to have these people when we could have more he people like from norway. joining us is carlos carbelo of florida. as they say in spanish, what a shame.

congressman, do you have any doubts about what the president said in that meeting in terms of the substance of it, the comparison he was drawing? good morning, chris. i don't know can%ly what was said because i wasn't there. certainly something derogatory, something that dehumanized people was said. especially on a day like today we should be reminded people co of their character not by what they look like or where they come from. and we should look at immigrants by what they can contribute not what country they come from. this is what the president and a lot of people around them say they want, a system that does not focus on where people come from but who they are and what they have to contribute. so this is a shame. it was a setback. the only thing more important than discussing this issue is is

reaching a compromise that takes care of at least the 800,000 daca recipients who are at risk. these are people who will lose their ability to work in our country, to function in our country, and who will be deportable sooner or later if we don't get this done. in spite of all of this, chris, many republicans and democrats we have been in contact over the weekend seeking that middle ground, that compromise. >> what does it look like right now? >> look, this was obama's executive construction, okay? period. but president trump is the one who started the clock ticking on this. that was his choice to push you guys to get a deal. now you are bumping up against the deadline. you have the spending deadline this friday. not the daca deadline. they are becoming intertwined. what are you hearing from democratic colleagues about what they are willing to agree to? >> well, chris, my position is the same. if we don't have any measurable

progress towards a daca deal, i am not going to vote for a stopgap measure. and i'm asking republicans and democrats to take that position. we're in congress. and regrettably, congress is an institution that only acts when it's forced to. the president has pushed congress to act on this issue. >> the silver lining, assuming you guys get it done. >> that's right. >> if the court hadn't decided that and the administration hadn't decided to abide by the decision, you would have people thrown into anxiety all the time. just be clear with me for a second. when you say i won't go for a stopgap, what does the deal have to be to get republican support? >> we truly have to meet in the middle. i comment senators graham and durbin because they tried and i think they set up a good base for continued discussions. but right now these negotiations are being led by leader kevin mccarthy on the republican side.

>> i hear you. but what are the musts for you guys and the musts have the democrats? the musts. >> well, on the immigration side, when it comes to daca, i am 100% for a path to citizenship. no more temporary measures for these young people. they deserve a certain future in this country. on the border side, i think the president and those for whom this is a major priority in congress are expecting significant investments at the border. not just with new technologies and drones and observation towers but also physical barriers, which by the way, we already have. >> right. >> it's just a question of making them stronger and more effective. >> is it? because i've got to tell you, it is still confusing. i promise you this, brother, i'm not trying to drum up controversy for the sake of it.

the president said when i say wall it is what i always promised. it is a a big wall. it will go all the way across. now there is a new truth of, well, it means different things in different contexts. kellyanne said now he met with experts and now there's rivers involved. come on. where is he now in your understanding? >> chris, the bottom line is we have to meet in the middle. >> what's the middle of a wall? a big fence? >> when i ran last year, i ran on protecting d.r.e.a.m.ers. and i actually ran in opposition to this concept of a wall from end to end of a border. >> right. >> but there are a lot of people, including the president, who ran on strong border security. he calls it the wall. >> right.

>> and that is just is the political reality. and the extremists on both sides, on the right and the left, have to accept they will have to give a lot and get uncomfortable if we're going to get this done. and my goal is to get something done. we are starting to see what the outline of that could look like. there are many conversations behind the scenes. i can't recall everything that's being discussed. >> right. >> because i don't want to disrupt those negotiations. >> sure. >> but we are getting closer. and the goal has to be to get something done. and hopefully this week. we don't have to punt on this issue again. everyone knows a deal has to be made. everyone pretty much knows who has to give what. let's just get it done. >> congressman, let's take a date. we'll reach out to the office and give us an update here as we get close before we deal with the friday deadline so people know what the machinations are. we'll bring you back, okay? >> any time, chris.

thanks. >> all right. be well. poppy? punt shouldn't be in their lexicon. >> punt. >> you shouldn't be able to punt. >> no. because you have time certain. >> we pay you not to punt. >> that's right. >> thank you, my friend. frightening moments. look at these pictures. 150 passengers. a commercial plane overshot the icy runway. it dangles over the cliff over the black sea. the remarkable story. more pictures next. hello, i'm an idaho potato farmer. you've probably seen me running all over the country in search of our big idaho potato truck. but not any more. i am done with that. ooh, ooh hot - just gonna stay home on the farm, eat a beautiful idaho potato, and watch tv with my dog... tv anncr: the big idaho potato truck pulled into town today and it's really a sight to see. oh man...let's go.... (distant) you comin', boy? sfx: (dog) gulp! woof.

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two million people living in syria's idlib province have a serious choice, stay in their homes or risk being killed by russians or flee to the turkish border. they are making the decision to run with their children, their children for their lives. arwa damon has seen the cities under siege firsthand. arwa, what did you see? >> reporter: well, poppy, a lot of it when you talk to people there, they say they flee sometimes before the bombs even strike because they have all seen what happened in aleppo. when it comes to a global audience, they feel as if even fewer people are watching and seem to care.

here's a glimpse of what we saw. it feels like one is peering into a doll house of broken lives. bits of concrete tumble down as people try to clean up or salvage what they can amid the horrors that they can't escape. five of his relatives were in that building. three children among them. images familiar with a year ago from the siege in aleppo. but this is where families were supposed to be safe. this was meant to be a refuge, one of the last remaining ones. part of a so-called de-escalation zone that lately has become anything but. the four strikes that hit here handled five days before we arrived. and many of those we met had actually fled from aleppo. so so lucky they were in that back room.

>> yeah. >> reporter: he is haunted by all he has lost. his wife was killed in aleppo six years ago. he's raising his two sons on his own. we ask where the boys are now, and his eyes fill with tears. they fled from aleppo to get here, whispering, choking on his words. there is no solution. there is just no solution. the boys were both studying for exams when the bombs shook the buildings, sucked the air out of the room, and everything went pitch black. they were screaming, daddy, daddy, mohammad remembers. he couldn't find them right away. this is when the kids were younger during happier times. what childhood, he laments, what childhood. children have lost everything in life.

and, chris, the bombing is especially intense in the idlib and hama country sides. they are on the move, increasingly be crushed into these makeshift or pre-established camps on the border of turkey. we speak to those refugees, the the issue is not if they will be bombed there, it is when. and where do they run? >> often you point out that winning the war is difficult. winning the peace is just as difficult, if not more so. how do you take care of these people? how do you return community in a sense of normalcy. that is just as important in military intervention. arwa, thank you for making us better this morning. please stay safe to you and the team. i know you're busy. you're getting ready for mlk. do we a favor. look at your television screen for a second. that's a real commercial jet dangling off a cliff in turkey.

the plane skidded off a run way. it was landing saturday. that's the black sea you're looking at there. that's where it was headed. incredibly, turkey state media reports all 160 people, 168 on board, evacuated. no one hurt seriously. the incident is under investigation. i'm talking slowly because i want you to be able to look at it. holy cow, can you believe if you were in there? >> unreal. that reminds me of the miracle on the hudson. >> that was a doozy for him to make that landing. imagine you start sliding, you pitch down. when you get out, you realize how close you were to the worst of fates. >> all okay. >> all right. the pentagon putting the finishing touches on a review of america's nuclear arsenal. ♪

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all right. this weekend's false missile alert in hawaii that caused widespread panic happened just as the pentagon is in the middle of reviewing the u.s. nuclear arsenal and ballistic missile

defenses. barbara starr is at the pentagon with more. this is about how the president hopes to change and shape and make, you know, more fresh, newer, the nuclear arsenal. what does this draft of the report tell us, barbra? >> reporter: good morning. all of this was well in the works was very much aimed at addressing the growing threat from north korea and indeed the worries about russia. this report is about president trump putting his mark on a approximately $1.2 trillion in nuclear spending over the next several years, all about modernizing the nuclear arsenal, but the real thing that everyone will be looking for is what he calls for perhaps in new weapons. there is a lot of discussion about the u.s. developing what they call low yield, smaller, less explosive nuclear weapons and the concern by critics is if you have those weapons, smaller weapons, it makes it easier to use them. they're not so big, so

expensive, so deadly. and that's the real worry, that the trump administration will go down the road of calling for low yield weapons. it will reduce the threshold for some kind of nuclear confrontation. that is causing a lot of concern. this report will be out by the end of the month. it is not clear yet what kind of reception it's going to get on capitol hill which of course would have to approve any spending for any of these new weapons. chris? >> all right, my friend. stay on it and let us know what we need to report. joining us now is former energy secretary under president obama earnest moese. what happened in hawaii and why was there such a long lag time before the corrections, some 38 minutes? >> first of all, i think we should have await the final investigation but certainly the reports are that this was human

error, both in issuing the warning and then in taking so long frankly to withdraw it although the american military i think did post notice of this being an error earlier. i think, chris, this is a dramatic example of what we and others have been saying for some time now and that is while nuclear weapons principal role is deterrence, focusing on deterrence isn't enough because right now the most probable use of a weapon is likely to come from a miscalculation, from a misunderstanding and this is a great case in point, unfortunately. it could have been a hack, for example, that would provide bad information and this kind of event, a miscalculation is of course much more likely when you also have a heightened set of tensions and frankly, our president has been rather loose, frankly, in talking about the

use of nuclear weapons and this just creates a situation where miscalculation could've led to a north korean response in this case, for example. >> let's just make sure that i'm clear on what you're saying. so this was a state operation, a state mistake. you're saying that on the federal level because we're hoping they're monitoring missile activity more than any of the states are that they knew right away that this was bogus and that word went out. how so? >> that is my understanding that in hawaii where we have substantial military assets that they recognized immediately that this was not a true warning, but, of course the state is the -- the one that had the apparatus to respond to the cell phone messages that they had issued. so there was, again, left hand/right hand perhaps not quite knowing what was happening and again, north korea easily could have interpreted this as

the beginning of an excuse, for example, for a pre-emptive launch and that's the kind of scenario that could lead again to a miscalculation. >> understood. >> and things spiraling out of control. >> so to the american man and woman watching this show, why should they care about a review of the nuclear arsenal? what are the issues at play? >> well, first of all, we should say that this is typical of a new administration to issue their nuclear policy. the concern here is and i've seen reports about the draft but even more, we've all seen the public issuance of the national security strategy a few weeks ago and it did suggest that we will be seeing a broadening of the reasons for use of nuclear weapons, that's would be going the wrong direction. we've seen reports that there may be inclination to bring in systems that are more so-called

usable when our goal is to avoid use of nuclear weapons. so let's see what the final report says but there's certainly indications of going in the wrong direction and that should be of great concern. >> but you can't have the ability of the government to use or be effective be compromised just because of this overarching goal of having less nukes in play overall, right? doesn't the reality insist that you have to have the best systems, you have to have the best ability to use what you have just as a point of defense? >> let's separate two things. one is the issue of the projected trillion dollars plus -- we should emphasize that's over decades that the military is calling for modernizing the systems. and i know from my tenure as secretary of energy where we had responsibility for the nuclear weapons safety, security, reliability, that i know that

the department of energy has 50, 60 year old facilities that do need to be upgraded. there's no question about it but that's different from the use doctrine, for example, arguing that one would use nuclear weapons in response to a cyberattack would be a rather dramatic expansion of the terms of use. so i think we need to keep focusing on our goal is deterrence, our goal is not to have nuclear weapons used and our goal is certainly to avoid the situation of miscalculation leading to an escalation in the use of nuclear weapons and that's the biggest risk we have right now and unfortunately, again, wars of words, for example, as we have seen recently do not help stabilize the situation at all. it creates greater risk. >> understood. we'll see what's in the final order in terms of what the direction the policy is going to take. former secretary moniz, thank

you very much. obviously he was with obama. the people who are in lay right now specifically, the head of the frc was invited to go on the show to explain what happened with hawaii and as son the case the invitation was declined. we're following a lot of news. it's mlk day. let's get after it. >> you said these hate felt things and he said them repeatedly. >> no, i'm not a racist. >> i didn't hear that word. country hear what senator durbin heard repeatedly. >> you can't have a compromise if everyone is out there calling the president a racist. >> i don't know if they'll be a shutdown. there shouldn't be. >> i for one will not vote for government funding until we get a deal on daca. >> he was just -- it was scary, very scary. >> part of it is people was on edge but eventually we'll solve the problem. >> it cannot happen again. >> i've been calling on president trump to